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View Full Version : To all the ones that say trade for more picks


HOOK'EM
01-02-2006, 11:46 PM
I dont believe some few of you that think we should trade Bush or the pick for more picks.Then when Casserly has all those extra picks what do you think he will do with them. Then You will be the first to complain about all the wasted picks in 06'.Bush is the only sure thing in the Draft and we should not pass that for NOTHING!

Speedy
01-02-2006, 11:51 PM
Nothing is ever a sure thing. Well, except for taxes, death and a fire somebody thread on this board.

MorKnolle
01-02-2006, 11:52 PM
I dont believe some few of you that think we should trade Bush or the pick for more picks.Then when Casserly has all those extra picks what do you think he will do with them. Then You will be the first to complain about all the wasted picks in 06'.Bush is the only sure thing in the Draft and we should not pass that for NOTHING!

Bush is not any more of a sure thing than anyone else in the draft, Casserly has made some intelligent draft decisions in the past (the same cannot be said for hi s free agent moves), and McNair, the new coach, and maybe Dan Reeves will be here to make sure he does a good job with the added picks. I don't see how so many people think Bush is some magical person that is going to instantly turn our team around and make it so much better.

Playmaker
01-02-2006, 11:53 PM
I'll second that emotion mainly because Casserly stinks with handling multiple draft pick deals. Cass needs to implement the KISS method on that #1 pick.

Playmaker
01-02-2006, 11:59 PM
I don't see how so many people think Bush is some magical person that is going to instantly turn our team around and make it so much better. But he will fill seats in the immediate future which McNair needs. With or without Bush we're still gonna struggle at the beginning of the season because of all the changes. That and some lousy players are still going to be on the roster...takes time to weed out the players the new coach doesn't want (especially the ones with multiyear fat contracts).

ccdude730
01-03-2006, 12:05 AM
mcnair is a businessman who understands every facet of "long-term." he knows as well as others that bush's value is more important than his numbers he MIGHT be able to put up

HOOK'EM
01-03-2006, 12:11 AM
I agree with you that McNair knows his value......................Tickets, Jerseys, and National Coverage!

Oh, and he WILL put up the numbers!

ccdude730
01-03-2006, 12:22 AM
actaully, i meant value as in other young players through a trade down with the potential to be key players for years to come

Hottoddie
01-03-2006, 01:25 AM
Got a new computer for Christmas, eh?:rolleyes:

Big B Texan Fan
01-03-2006, 01:35 AM
The draft is already a crap-shoot. Why turn one pick that has the possibility to be a bust into many.

We will not know anything about most of these guys until the combine, their pro-day, and private individual workouts.

Draft-ology 101:
1. Take the best player available.
2. Revisit #1

ccdude730
01-03-2006, 02:18 AM
The draft is already a crap-shoot. Why turn one pick that has the possibility to be a bust into many.
yes, its a crapshoot. so why not take the risk of getting more players with the same potential?

Draft-ology 101:
1. Take the best player available.
2. Revisit #1
taking the best player is only applied when your team has no blatant needs

CITY CAT
01-03-2006, 02:33 AM
mcnair is a businessman who understands every facet of "long-term." he knows as well as others that bush's value is more important than his numbers he MIGHT be able to put up

Mcnair wants Bush, he is the Lebron of football, and hopefully he won't miss on a player that can change the game of football. Besides why give CC a chance to throw away more picks.:brickwall

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:19 AM
I dont believe some few of you that think we should trade Bush or the pick for more picks.Then when Casserly has all those extra picks what do you think he will do with them. Then You will be the first to complain about all the wasted picks in 06'.Bush is the only sure thing in the Draft and we should not pass that for NOTHING!

You should get your head out of fantasy football thinking and come into the real world. Look at Denver. They can put anybody at RB and succeed because they have a good OL. And if you will recall, the Colts and Seahawks were looking to trade two of the best RBs in the game because it's common knowledge that RBs are both disposable and replaceable. Besides, drafting one guy at RB certainly doesn't help you with a porous rushing and passing defense. If they draft Bush, I hope you get all excited if Bush breaks off a big run -- and the Texans lose repeatedly 38-7 and 42-10.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:21 AM
Mcnair wants Bush, he is the Lebron of football, and hopefully he won't miss on a player that can change the game of football. Besides why give CC a chance to throw away more picks.:brickwall

They said the same thing about Lawrence Phillips and Archie Griffin. Those who ignore the blunders of history are condemned to repeat them.

michaelm
01-03-2006, 03:28 AM
I don't think anyone here believes we will be a playoff contender next season, so why limit our thinking to how much we can improve in one off season?

Let's look at this as at least a two year process.
We then consider the improvement possible over the next two offseasons to include free agency.
I think that there should be ample opportunity to fill many of our holes over that period of time, and over that period of time(and beyond), we are better off with Bush.


This post seems to be awkwardly worded, but it's late and I don't have the mental capacity to go back and pretty it up...:goodnight

ATX
01-03-2006, 03:32 AM
taking the best player is only applied when your team has no blatant needs

Yeah tell the Bengals that when they took Carson Palmer when Kitna was lighting it up. Now look where they are.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:41 AM
Yeah tell the Bengals that when they took Carson Palmer when Kitna was lighting it up. Now look where they are.

A.) Palmer is a QB, not a RB. B.) Palmer didn't come into his own until this year. The Bengals previously had made moves up the ladder and were at .500 or above the last few seasons. Hence, the analogy doesn't fit.

michaelm
01-03-2006, 04:06 AM
Yeah tell the Bengals that when they took Carson Palmer when Kitna was lighting it up. Now look where they are.

And when KC drafted L. Johnson when Priest was realllly lighting it up.

ccdude730
01-03-2006, 04:18 AM
mcnair has never said he wants bush. so i dont know why you would make that statement.

and its a general rule about BPA. but where are kitna and holmes now? they are older players now replaced by younger guys

Bobo
01-03-2006, 04:20 AM
And when KC drafted L. Johnson when Priest was realllly lighting it up.

Are you comparing the Chiefs a couple of years ago when they drafted Johnson to the Texans? I would say the Chiefs had a lot more going for them at the time than the Texans do at this point. Plus, Holmes was getting long in the tooth. Davis is young.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 04:23 AM
I don't think anyone here believes we will be a playoff contender next season, so why limit our thinking to how much we can improve in one off season?

Let's look at this as at least a two year process.
We then consider the improvement possible over the next two offseasons to include free agency.
I think that there should be ample opportunity to fill many of our holes over that period of time, and over that period of time(and beyond), we are better off with Bush.


This post seems to be awkwardly worded, but it's late and I don't have the mental capacity to go back and pretty it up...:goodnight

The Texans are going to have to do this all through the draft. The only FAs who will come to Houston are folks who are desperately trying to just stay in the league. The prime free agents will be looking to go to teams who have a good chance to go to the SB. Players can pick up the big bucks anywhere, but getting a ring is harder to come by and they only have so many years to accomplish that feat.

rittenhouserobz
01-03-2006, 06:24 AM
I dont believe some few of you that think we should trade Bush or the pick for more picks.Then when Casserly has all those extra picks what do you think he will do with them. Then You will be the first to complain about all the wasted picks in 06'.Bush is the only sure thing in the Draft and we should not pass that for NOTHING!

A pass-blocking LT should be at the top of the list for the Texans based on what we have. If we pick another RB, then we have accomplished nothing. We already know that a good RB can get a thousand yards in ths system. What we need to see is Carr get enough time to pass for 3500 or "dare I mention" 4000 yards and about 25 TD's. That won't happen by picking Reggie Bush. Picking Bush will alienate Morency, Wells, and DD. Get a LT and some picks CC. :twocents:

Carr Bombed
01-03-2006, 06:56 AM
yes, its a crapshoot. so why not take the risk of getting more players with the same potential?


taking the best player is only applied when your team has no blatant needs
That makes no sense, there isn't more players with the same potential and anytime you have the opportunity to take the best player in the draft and hold the #1 pick your team has alot of needs, yet teams still take the best player.

Waltman
01-03-2006, 07:42 AM
First of all anyone we pick out of the draft could be a bust, yes even a "PASS BLOCKING LT". Anyway you look at it there are so many ways to argue an opinion. Any person we pick out of the draft can end up being a bust, so if we are going to have a possibe bust, I rather have it picking Reggie. I mean come on, an offensive lineman over one of the most explosive person in the draft? The Texans have more problems than pass blocking, if they didn't Vic Fangio would still have his job. I rather take my chances trying to find a diamond in the ruff lineman, than pass on someone who's capable of putting 6 on the board at anytime.



[U]2 + 2 = 4 --It's simple math.

touttail
01-03-2006, 08:21 AM
McNair said in this am's Chronicle that the draft picks will not be solely left up to Casserly:homer: . It will be among discussion with himself, Casserly:homer: , and the coaches. McNair tired of being buffaloed!

Damn, why didn't he let Casserly go too???

Bobby 119C

LBC_Justin
01-03-2006, 12:02 PM
I don't see how so many people think Bush is some magical person that is going to instantly turn our team around and make it so much better.
Trading down is certainly not going to instantly turn our team around and make it so much better. Second round picks are not even close to being sure things.

There percentages are much much much higher that the 1st overall pick will be a super star. This year's #1 pick looks like one of the better ones to come out in years.

tulexan
01-03-2006, 12:07 PM
A pass-blocking LT should be at the top of the list for the Texans based on what we have. If we pick another RB, then we have accomplished nothing. We already know that a good RB can get a thousand yards in ths system. What we need to see is Carr get enough time to pass for 3500 or "dare I mention" 4000 yards and about 25 TD's. That won't happen by picking Reggie Bush. Picking Bush will alienate Morency, Wells, and DD. Get a LT and some picks CC. :twocents:


A pass blocking LT is not one of our biggest needs. There was an article in the chronicle a few months back saying that the team is happy with Pitts playing LT and that they will not be pursuing one with their first pick now. Then there was an interview with Charley Casserly on Cold Pizza a few weeks ago where they were asking him about the draft and what the biggest needs for the team are and he said that an offensive playmaker is their biggest need because they don't believe that they have proper weapons surrounding David Carr.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 12:09 PM
Trading down is certainly not going to instantly turn our team around and make it so much better. Second round picks are not even close to being sure things.

There percentages are much much much higher that the 1st overall pick will be a super star. This year's #1 pick looks like one of the better ones to come out in years.

History tells us that there are a boatload of first-round picks that have failed miserably. The teams who have done well are those who found diamonds in the rough with lower picks. Besides, second-round picks in many cases are like lower first-round picks. Dominic Davis certainly wasn't a first-round pick. And remember Terrell Davis? The Texans would be making a huge, huge mistake if they don't try to plug the many holes they have with this pick and instead draft somebody at one of the few positions they are good at.

ATX
01-03-2006, 12:19 PM
A pass-blocking LT should be at the top of the list for the Texans based on what we have. If we pick another RB, then we have accomplished nothing. We already know that a good RB can get a thousand yards in ths system. What we need to see is Carr get enough time to pass for 3500 or "dare I mention" 4000 yards and about 25 TD's. That won't happen by picking Reggie Bush. Picking Bush will alienate Morency, Wells, and DD. Get a LT and some picks CC. :twocents:

I have to disagree on this one. Chester Pitts has played extremely well at LT and I see him as our starting LT next season. By drafting Bush we're not just adding another RB, we're adding one of the best prospects at RB in the last 10-20 years. If DD can rush for 1,000 imagine what a really good back can do. If we can get a great running game going, it's going to make defenses play alot more honest. Our offense is so predictable at times and they know that we won't burn them, so they can rush Carr like the way they do.

When you can run the ball, your not forced into as many 3rd and long situations. When you can run the ball, it opens up the passing game. When you can run the ball, it makes your defense better by keeping them off the field and you can control time of possession. When you can run the ball, it helps the whole team out. How many times before a game, you hear the phrase "they need to get the running game going" or "they need to stay with the run". It's because having a good running game is so important in the NFL.

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 12:21 PM
McNair said in this am's Chronicle that the draft picks will not be solely left up to Casserly:homer: . It will be among discussion with himself, Casserly:homer: , and the coaches. McNair tired of being buffaloed!

Damn, why didn't he let Casserly go too???

Bobby 119C
There is absolutely no reason to keep Casserly if you need to hold his hand like that. That is disgusting and he needs to be a man and just resign. It's pathetic that 4 people are looking over you while you do your job and McNair has very little confidence in him.

LBC_Justin
01-03-2006, 12:34 PM
I have to disagree on this one. Chester Pitts has played extremely well at LT and I see him as our starting LT next season. By drafting Bush we're not just adding another RB, we're adding one of the best prospects at RB in the last 10-20 years. If DD can rush for 1,000 imagine what a really good back can do. If we can get a great running game going, it's going to make defenses play alot more honest. Our offense is so predictable at times and they know that we won't burn them, so they can rush Carr like the way they do.

When you can run the ball, your not forced into as many 3rd and long situations. When you can run the ball, it opens up the passing game. When you can run the ball, it makes your defense better by keeping them off the field and you can control time of possession. When you can run the ball, it helps the whole team out. How many times before a game, you hear the phrase "they need to get the running game going" or "they need to stay with the run". It's because having a good running game is so important in the NFL.Great post.

All you have to do is look at the Pittsburgh Steelers. They can always run the ball and they are alway good.

Waltman
01-03-2006, 12:41 PM
Can you say 2-headed monster:yahoo:

tulexan
01-03-2006, 12:45 PM
There is absolutely no reason to keep Casserly if you need to hold his hand like that. That is disgusting and he needs to be a man and just resign. It's pathetic that 4 people are looking over you while you do your job and McNair has very little confidence in him.


McNair has said that he wants to be more involved in the decisions just like most owners are with their teams.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 12:51 PM
That makes no sense, there isn't more players with the same potential and anytime you have the opportunity to take the best player in the draft and hold the #1 pick your team has alot of needs, yet teams still take the best player.

This makes no sense. Reggie Bush won't put more pressure on the opposing QB, nor will he improve the rushing defense, nor will he improve the passing defense either. Bush plays just one position -- a position we are already strong at. The only thing that makes sense is to trade the pick for as many good draft selections as possible so we can make the team better overall. You should stop seeing this as a fantasy football coach. Fantasy football doesn't take line play into consideration and that is just as important as the skill positions -- if not moreso, since you can put any guy named Joe behind a good offensive line and make him a star (see Denver). And I will remind you that Archie Griffin was more of a "can't miss" prospect than Reggie Bush. Guess what happened.

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 12:56 PM
McNair has said that he wants to be more involved in the decisions just like most owners are with their teams.
did he actually say "like most owners are with their teams" or is that your opinion of how owners work? Do all owners have a hands on approach? Do you have factual basis for this?

swtbound07
01-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Great post.

All you have to do is look at the Pittsburgh Steelers. They can always run the ball and they are alway good.


when you think pittsburgh steelers, you think monster defense. Defense wins championships, THATS why they are always good.

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 01:06 PM
A lineman in the first round does no good when there are talented skill players available. AGAIN, look at the Patriots. One 2nd round O-lineman. The rest are 3rd round or lower, free agents and waiver wire guys. Most playoff teams have the same. The Cowboys old line was the same. There are only a few exceptions. You take Bush and haev O-lineman want to be here. You hopefully have Charlie find some lower round guys that can play instead of taking more RBs, QBs and DBs. You still have 7 picks after Bush. A GM worth his salt can find guys after that pick.

JDizzle
01-03-2006, 01:12 PM
A pass-blocking LT should be at the top of the list for the Texans based on what we have. If we pick another RB, then we have accomplished nothing. We already know that a good RB can get a thousand yards in ths system. What we need to see is Carr get enough time to pass for 3500 or "dare I mention" 4000 yards and about 25 TD's. That won't happen by picking Reggie Bush. Picking Bush will alienate Morency, Wells, and DD. Get a LT and some picks CC. :twocents:

I disagree with that entire post. I think that we're better suited taking a guard in Rd. 2 rather than taking Ferguson in Rd. 1, since I haven't seen enough from Ferguson that leads me to believe he'll be an obvious starter at LT over Pitts. I really think that getting one of the premier guards in this draft, along with a better OL coach who can show a group of guys how to work together and recognize blitzers can help tremendously.

Who cares if a player gets upset if someone is drafted at their position? Tough stuff. It's the NFL.

barzilla
01-03-2006, 01:13 PM
I think a lot of the question of trading down depends on two variables:

1) Who is the number one overall pick going to be?

Let's think about 2002 for a moment. If anyone recalls there was considerable debate over which player to take (Peppers or Carr). In some years, the number one overall pick is not clear cut. In that situation trading down make a great deal of sense. I think those that want to trade down are looking at the scenario from 2002 and thinking we could have done more with that pick. I don't blame Carr for that because he didn't make the decision to draft himself, but looking back we probably would have been better trading the pick. Take away any team with any need and look at this year's draft. Does anyone believe Bush isn't the best player available? If everyone believes he is the best player available it obviously changes things. Think back on the last several drafts (say the last ten). How often have we had universal agreement on who the best player is?

2) What are other teams offering for that pick?

Okay, if a team offers one pick in 2006 and one pick in 2007 then you have to really wonder if it's worth it. If Mike Ditka shows up and offers you his entire draft board that obviously changes things. In the end, I would say listen to what other teams are offering. If it passes a threshold you have in your mind then make the deal.

TexanAlmighty
01-03-2006, 01:18 PM
Pft. If you have the opportunity to draft Bush you can not pass him up. Like the Packers passed on Barry Sanders and drafted Tony Mandarich.

Reggie!!!!:yahoo:

Jack Bauer
01-03-2006, 01:20 PM
when you think pittsburgh steelers, you think monster defense. Defense wins championships, THATS why they are always good.

On the surface, you are correct. However, the first rule of having a good defense is having an offense that can run the ball. This helps with controlling time-of-possession: the key to having a dominant defense. The less a defense is on the field, the less yards and points they give up.

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 01:25 PM
I have tried to stay away from posting on the Bush-disease thread of the day, but I had to ask:

McNair wants Bush? McNair is going to do this or that?

Says who?

Stick to stating your own opinions, or if you are going to speculate for the voice of others, back it up with something.

Actually John Clayton on ESPN and John McClain this morning both said that unless a deal for the gaes shows up that the Texans brass has decided Bush is the pick.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:49 PM
On the surface, you are correct. However, the first rule of having a good defense is having an offense that can run the ball. This helps with controlling time-of-possession: the key to having a dominant defense. The less a defense is on the field, the less yards and points they give up.

The Bears went 11-5 and have a bye with no offense to speak of. Case closed.