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Grid
01-02-2006, 07:17 PM
This is only going to inflame the whole "Carr isnt the answer" arguement..

There is a lot of talk about the so called "parity" in the league. But it is becoming more and more obvious that the parity doesnt really exist anymore. There are definatly the "haves" and the "have-nots".

The interesting thing is that if you look at the haves, there is one thing that sticks out.. and that is the QB position.

The playoff teams are:

Patriots
Bengals
Steelers
Colts
Jaguars
Broncos

Giants
Redskins
Bears
Panthers
Buccaneers
Seahawks

These are the top 12 QBs

#1 Peyton Manning
#2 Carson Palmer
#3 Big Ben
#4 Matt Hasselback
#5 Matt Schaub
#6 Tom Brady
#7 Jake Plummer
#8 Trent Green
#9 Drew Brees
#10 Brad Johnson
#11 Jake Delhomme
#12 Mark Brunell

notice that only 4 of the 12 arent in the playoffs. Schaub (falcons) Green (KC) Brees (SD) and Johnson (Vikes).

Of those 4.. their teams are 10-6, 9-7, 9-7, and 8-8. (Schaub is the 8-8 but I dont think he really counts.. Vick is their QB).

Anyway.. that means that 8 of the 12 teams in the playoffs have one of the best QBs in the league. Of the 4 teams that dont have a top QB, the Bears and Bucs have the top 2 defenses in the league.

WHat you can safely say by looking at this.. is that the QB position is VERY important to being a playoff team. It is POSSIBLE to squeak into the playoffs without a top 10 QB.. but having a top 10 QB just about insures a playoff berth.


They also talk about how the AFC is a better conferance than the NFC. And looking at the top QBs, 7 of the top 12... (8 of the top 10) are AFC QBs.


This worries me. Specifically because we are apparently going for an offensive minded head coach. But we are keeping Carr as our QB. Now.. I like Carr.. I think he could become a solid NFL QB, but can he be a top 10 QB? If he cant.. that means that we need to depend on our defense to put us in contention.. and if we are going with an offensive minded coach, that means that our defense may not ever be on the same level as the Bears and Bucs.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 07:20 PM
:redtowel: The funny thing is that only 3 of the 12 are first round picks .

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 07:27 PM
I'm right with you Grid. I am not anti-Carr. I only feel we should evaluate him honestly and put aside blind loyalty. I'm a HUGE Coleman supporter but he's lost a step and I know it. Sometimes as a fan, you've got to face the hard questions and answer it honestly. In other sports with a rookies have a max contract of 3 years. This means they have 3 years to prove they are worth resigning and if so, resigning a larger contract. Carr has had 4 years now and we are still discussing him as if he is rookie. It's time to treat him like the 4 year veteran he is.

I'm okay with giving him one more season with a better OL but if he doesn't produce, it's time to move on.

MorKnolle
01-02-2006, 07:33 PM
I'm right with you Grid. I am not anti-Carr. I only feel we should evaluate him honestly and put aside blind loyalty. I'm a HUGE Coleman supporter but he's lost a step and I know it. Sometimes as a fan, you've got to face the hard questions and answer it honestly. In other sports with a rookies have a max contract of 3 years. This means they have 3 years to prove they are worth resigning and if so, resigning a larger contract. Carr has had 4 years now and we are still discussing him as if he is rookie. It's time to treat him like the 4 year veteran he is.

I'm okay with giving him one more season with a better OL but if he doesn't produce, it's time to move on.

I agree, but I think we need to give Carr at least two seasons before passing final judgement. I've seen flashes of greatness out of him, but bringing in a new coach, system, and new players might take a full year to start gelling as a group. By the end of next season we should hopefully be getting a good view of what our offense can do in the future, so I say give him that and then one more year to make a final judgement on whether or not to keep him as our main QB.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 07:38 PM
:redtowel: So if Carr is the real deal and they hire a good coach , who brings in good assistants is 8-8 out of the question ?

run-david-run
01-02-2006, 07:39 PM
:redtowel: The funny thing is that only 3 of the 12 are first round picks .
big ben, eli, carson, peyton. thats 4 right there....

MorKnolle
01-02-2006, 07:40 PM
:redtowel: So if Carr is the real deal and they hire a good coach , who brings in good assistants is 8-8 out of the question ?

Not at all, I think we could see a turnaround similar to the Chargers in 2004 if the pieces fall in place properly.

Another point on the QBs, you were ranking the QBs by their QB rating, not necessarily who is truly the best QBs, although that can indeed be hard to measure. I think more than showing that the playoff teams have the most talented quarterbacks, it shows that they have the most efficient QBs that run their offenses best, which is an indication of QBs abilities, their coaching, and the offensive system that they're running, not to mention the other offensive talent around them. It takes all of these factors coming together to produce a great offense and a good QB, and right now David Carr's abilities are probably the best of any of these categories and once we improve the others that his statistics will come along nicely.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 07:43 PM
:bomb: I only counted 1 Manning .

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 07:45 PM
:redtowel: Now that Vermiel quit , who was their OL coach ?

Master Po
01-02-2006, 07:52 PM
:redtowel: Now that Vermiel quit , who was their OL coach ?

Mike Solari

ArlingtonTexan
01-02-2006, 08:03 PM
Good look at a statistical situation. My guess is that over time you would find a similar type ratio between efficient QB play and success. I don't think past anyone mentioned in the original post there are more than a couple of QBs who played anything close to good.

My general thought on Carr is not that he has earned the bonus money but that the state of current NFL QBing is pretty sorry and he is as good an option as anything out on the market.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 08:29 PM
This goes straight to my theory that I posted last nigh that there have only been a couple of teams in the last few decades to play for a SB that didn't have a franchise QB or RB. Thus my vote for Bush. I think the Texans have neither.

HJam72
01-02-2006, 08:33 PM
This goes straight to my theory that I posted last nigh that there have only been a couple of teams in the last few decades to play for a SB that didn't have a franchise QB or RB. Thus my vote for Bush. I think the Texans have neither.

Well, we don't exactly have the '95 cowboys O-line either. We don't even have the '05 49ers O-line. :cool:

LBC_Justin
01-02-2006, 09:18 PM
Well, we don't exactly have the '95 cowboys O-line either. We don't even have the '05 49ers O-line. :cool:
Exactly.

You show be a QB having a great year and I will show you a great O-line.

example.
Green Bay loses their TWO top O-lineman and suddenly Farve isn't looking so hot.

Stats are a funny thing. They are very easy to manipulate.

other stats
- The teams that make the playoffs usually have some of the top Defenses.
- The teams that score the most points and keep the opponents from scoring very many points usually make it to the superbowl.

The QB position is obviously the most important position on the field. He touches the ball every offensive play. The QB rating focuses on "not making mistakes", which is what winning teams are good at.

feebleminded
01-02-2006, 09:46 PM
These are the top 12 QBs

#1 Peyton Manning
#2 Carson Palmer
#3 Big Ben
#4 Matt Hasselback
#5 Matt Schaub
#6 Tom Brady
#7 Jake Plummer
#8 Trent Green
#9 Drew Brees
#10 Brad Johnson
#11 Jake Delhomme
#12 Mark Brunell


Just curious, but where did this top 12 QB's list come from? Is this a QB rating?

I just find it funny to see a Matt Schaub (and yes I know lots of people think that he could be the real deal) a backup QB ranked higher than a Brady, Green etc.

Grid
01-02-2006, 10:03 PM
I went to NFL.com and looked at quarterback statistics.

I skipped QBs that had played less than 14 games.

Yah its by QB rating.

Wharton
01-03-2006, 02:04 AM
Personally, I think quarterbacks are more important as a manager of the game then an actual playmaker. Play football like a point guard plays basketball and make sure you get the ball to the person who can make the best play. The name that is comspicuously absent from that list is Michael Vick.

The problem I have with DC is his decision making on the field. Its his fourth year and he still has trouble dumping the ball to avoid a sack.

I just don't think he is a student of the game like most of the quarterbacks on this list.

Nighthawk
01-03-2006, 02:37 AM
I agree, but I think we need to give Carr at least two seasons before passing final judgement. I've seen flashes of greatness out of him, but bringing in a new coach, system, and new players might take a full year to start gelling as a group. By the end of next season we should hopefully be getting a good view of what our offense can do in the future, so I say give him that and then one more year to make a final judgement on whether or not to keep him as our main QB.

I can't see giving Carr two more years, for heaven's sake. He's had four years, no matter how bad the coaching and the line and the rest. Four years! That's an ETERNITY in the NFL.

I say we bring in a top quality vet capable of running the team and put the ball in their court, let Carr win the position or lose the position in legit competition.

Snapple
01-03-2006, 02:44 AM
I went to NFL.com and looked at quarterback statistics.

I skipped QBs that had played less than 14 games.

Yah its by QB rating.

If you skipped QBs that played less than 14 games, why'd you include Schaub? He's just a backup, and has only started I think the one game against the Patriots this season.

Grid
01-03-2006, 08:44 AM
hmm.. i dunno if its a typo.. but Schaub is listed as starting 16 games.

but yah that HAS to be a typo cause he only has 60 attempts, and Mick Vick supposedy played 15 games himself.

thanks for pointing that out.