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IshouldbeGM
01-02-2006, 02:55 AM
In my opinion, not for an 8 million dollar bonus and locking up for 3 yrs at 5.5 mill a yr. Id let him hit the open market and get him for the dollar amount he's worth. If he leaves, id go after brad johnson and groom a young qb or go after david garrard from j-ville. Its plenty of qbs out there we can get for less than the price of david carr. We have too many other needs to fill than to sink 8 mill to a qb who hasnt shown anything!!

NWTexan Fan
01-02-2006, 03:11 AM
This is my first post! It's hard to get all the news being a Texan Fan up here in Seattle so I'm glad I found your boards. Not sure why I didn't think of looking for them before....duh...

About Carr...I have days where I'm wondering about his ability and if he is the real deal or not. I think - as others have pointed out more eloquently that myself - it has been very difficult for him to develop to his full potential with the problems the team has with the OL. My biggest fear is he could've been the next Elway, Favre, etc but will be "spoiled" and screwed up playing in Houston and behind this offensive line!

I still have my Carr jersey and I'll still believe. I say keep him.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 03:20 AM
I won't be ready to call him a bust until we give him the right kind of protection behind a good O-line and he still doesn't produce.

I would like the Texans to address the back-up QB position more aggressively with a player who could potentially take over for the remainder of the season if Carr can't produce with a good line. Maybe invest a 3rd round pick and draft one or pick up an a veteran like Flutie, Brooks, or Kitna.

bigtex77
01-02-2006, 03:21 AM
Hey NW, just curious, how long have you been in Seattle, and where in Texas are you from?

NWTexan Fan
01-02-2006, 04:10 AM
Hey NW, just curious, how long have you been in Seattle, and where in Texas are you from?

Hey bigtex...lived in Seattle and surrounding areas most of my life (44 yrs and counting) and actually never did live in Tx. In my formative years of discovering sports and who I liked, I gravitated with no explanation to the Oilers. Perhaps, Billy White Shoes, Pastorini, Kenny B. later Earl C had something to do with it! LOL! I was in love with "Luv Ya Blue!" My loyalties followed them to Tenessee but now back to Houston.

Grid
01-02-2006, 04:26 AM
well im glad ya found the forum.. always good to see a informed fan on here.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 09:36 AM
well im glad ya found the forum.. always good to see a informed fan on here.

David Carr's head is full of rocks. Nothing against JUCO but Carr had to start out at JUCO before Fresno because of school, etc. This translates onto the field in my book, where he doesn't make smart plays. The guy has some talent and it isn't his fault that the line is no good. My problem, after 4 years, is that he still makes the same dumb mistakes...looks RIGHT AT his first option, doesn't throw the ball away, etc.

rmartin65
01-02-2006, 09:51 AM
Maybe a halfway decent coach can stop this. He should be allowed a chance with someone who knows what they are doing.

Grid
01-02-2006, 09:54 AM
cant judge carr yet. needs more time.

CanadianSaint
01-02-2006, 09:57 AM
cant judge carr yet. needs more time.

That sounds like the Saints organization and Aaron Brooks....Lets face it. Winning is the measure of sucess, and neither your starting QB did it, nor mine. They BOTH need to go.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 10:03 AM
cant judge carr yet. needs more time.

The fans and and media here are way too forgiving. 4 years of this stuff is too much. He hasn't even learned basic Quarterbacking in that time.

CanadianSaint
01-02-2006, 10:06 AM
Can anyone say.... RYAN LEAF?

El Tejano
01-02-2006, 10:25 AM
I've seen improvement. Especially when given the permission to handle the offense. I believe coaching has everything to do with it. I think if you are going to put it in Carrs hands, you gotta get him Kubiak so that he can get this kid the plays for Carr to make plays.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 10:42 AM
:twocents: We'll be saying the same thing after 6 years .

Grid
01-02-2006, 10:46 AM
yah.. how dare he spend 4 years just LAYING on his back behind hte line of scrimmage.. slacking off.. and expect us to be patient.


This is a stupid arguement. get over it. its tiring. Carr is staying.. Carr is getting more time.. Carr has not had a fair chance.. Carr still has room for improvement.

deal with it.

texanfan2002114
01-02-2006, 10:48 AM
I won't be ready to call him a bust until we give him the right kind of protection behind a good O-line and he still doesn't produce.

I would like the Texans to address the back-up QB position more aggressively with a player who could potentially take over for the remainder of the season if Carr can't produce with a good line. Maybe invest a 3rd round pick and draft one or pick up an a veteran like Flutie, Brooks, or Kitna.

They did invest a 3rd pick into a QB. Did you forget Dave Ragone? Also you don't waste the 1st or 2nd picks in the 3rd round on another QB. The Texans will have the top 2 picks in 3rd round due to trade they made with the Saints last year.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 10:57 AM
:ok: Well , I will not hang my hat on Carr . He brings on alot of problems on himself . How did Banks get the ball downfield and not get sacked .

Carr and the rest of this team have been babied cause of their new status . Its time for everyone to be accountable ... even David he 's the QB for a 2-14 team and started every game .( hopefully Bush will keep his pa away from practice )

PapaL
01-02-2006, 11:00 AM
I guess this is the eternal question, how long is long enough? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years? If you couldnt do your job in 4 years, wouldnt you replaced? Much less if they were paying you what he's getting paid? Players are paid to make plays, not excuses. The guy gets hit all year long and then in the last game of the year when 0 sacks are given up, he gets hurt?

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 11:06 AM
:redtowel: The OL is bad but its not as bad as it looks . Teams have nothig to lose going after Carr because he wont burn them ... he'll dump it or eat it . This started three years ago and it won't get better .

the wonger need food
01-02-2006, 11:40 AM
Davie Franchise will be a nice backup somewhere 3 years from now. He won't kill you with mistakes, but he won't make any plays for you either. Look at what Tony friggin' Banks did (yardage-wise) in one half with the same offensive line and receivers.

No, Carr is not the answer... that's very obvious to many after 4 years of futility.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 11:43 AM
yah.. how dare he spend 4 years just LAYING on his back behind hte line of scrimmage.. slacking off.. and expect us to be patient.


This is a stupid arguement. get over it. its tiring. Carr is staying.. Carr is getting more time.. Carr has not had a fair chance.. Carr still has room for improvement.

deal with it.

Why are you defensive and name calling. If you knew anything about football you'd know that he is on his back half the time because he holds onto the ball and won't throw it away. How many sacks has the line given up against bad teams lately?He is been in the league 4 years and ESPN was making fun of him their last national game because he just stared down receivers.....after 4 years. They predicted his interceptions. If you think that is progress then you can't see the light. Typical Houston sports fan who wants to hang on to guys and give them a chance. I'm sure you think Bagwell has some good years left too(roll eyes)

texanfan2002114
01-02-2006, 11:48 AM
:ok: Well , I will not hang my hat on Carr . He brings on alot of problems on himself . How did Banks get the ball downfield and not get sacked .

Carr and the rest of this team have been babied cause of their new status . Its time for everyone to be accountable ... even David he 's the QB for a 2-14 team and started every game .( hopefully Bush will keep his pa away from practice )


Because Banks was to busy thowing picks for TD returns!! Carr will lead this team to the playoffs!!

the wonger need food
01-02-2006, 12:02 PM
Why are you defensive and name calling.

You have to be careful when discussing Carr on this board. There are many with a huge man-crush on the guy.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 12:04 PM
Because Banks was to busy thowing picks for TD returns!! Carr will lead this team to the playoffs!!

The AFL playoffs MAYBE

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 12:05 PM
You have to be careful when discussing Carr on this board. There are many with a huge man-crush on the guy.

LOL..sorry. I'm new as of yesterday and really grew up a Cowboy fan(don't throw rocks). I've lived here since 1993 though and would love to see the Texans get better for the city. From an outsider looking in I think the fans are way too forgiving and think good guy equals winner. Carr, from what I read, never stays late to look at film and is pretty much worried about his TV appearances and his hair. He claims the film is because he puts a premium on his family. Well sometimes you need to sacrifice. Alot of people do.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 12:13 PM
:tv: I have 'nt been posting on Carr until the season ended because its time to be accountable . Theres no excuse , their a 2-14 team if you blame one you blame them all . The bigger the platform the more responsibility .

Oh by the way did anyone see the end of the first half against the Chiefs ?

dat_boy_yec
01-02-2006, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=Honoring Earl 34]:ok: Well , I will not hang my hat on Carr . He brings on alot of problems on himself . How did Banks get the ball downfield and not get sacked .
[QUOTE]

You mean into the hands of Adams twice, once for a touchdown and once to setup the game winning kick. Yeah, Banks is so much better than Carr. If he had been playing for San Freakinsisco!!! Oh how many sacks were given up yesterday?

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 12:37 PM
[QUOTE=Honoring Earl 34]:ok: Well , I will not hang my hat on Carr . He brings on alot of problems on himself . How did Banks get the ball downfield and not get sacked .
[QUOTE]

You mean into the hands of Adams twice, once for a touchdown and once to setup the game winning kick. Yeah, Banks is so much better than Carr. If he had been playing for San Freakinsisco!!! Oh how many sacks were given up yesterday?

Banks hadn't played all year. Carr has done the same thing this season playing 16 games..lol.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 01:05 PM
:yahoo: If it were Carr who threw the picks yesterday , ya'll would blame the recievers or the rain or the OL or the call or the ref or the wind or the Fresno coach for not being there .

bigcarlos
01-02-2006, 01:13 PM
Carr will lead this team to the playoffs!!

:tv: :pigfly: :pigfly:

run-david-run
01-02-2006, 01:16 PM
Can anyone say.... RYAN LEAF?
ummm, no, no they cant

Straightshooter
01-02-2006, 01:18 PM
In my opinion, not for an 8 million dollar bonus and locking up for 3 yrs at 5.5 mill a yr. Id let him hit the open market and get him for the dollar amount he's worth. If he leaves, id go after brad johnson and groom a young qb or go after david garrard from j-ville. Its plenty of qbs out there we can get for less than the price of david carr. We have too many other needs to fill than to sink 8 mill to a qb who hasnt shown anything!!

and thats why your not a GM. :yahoo:

Straightshooter
01-02-2006, 01:22 PM
You have to be careful when discussing Carr on this board. There are many with a huge man-crush on the guy.

We know your a **** so stop trying to push your reverse Psychology. Your a troll. If Carr goes he goes if he stays he stays whatever happens the constant is YOUR A TROLL>>>>!

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 01:23 PM
and thats why your not a GM. :yahoo:

Wish he were. Carr has rocks for brains and has learned nothing in 4 years except how to go home early and how to get haircuts on the news.

Straightshooter
01-02-2006, 01:26 PM
Wish he were. Carr has rocks for brains and has learned nothing in 4 years except how to go home early and how to get haircuts on the news.

Another troll. So you are saying Carr is mentally challenged? Nothing in four years? Wow when you suck you suckith the most huh frogger? Your not watching the games your watching him....you are like the wonger....in need of help..yes much!

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 01:27 PM
:tv: Would you trade Carr and the first pick to the Raiders for their 06 and 07 first round picks , 06 second rd. 06 third rd. Robert Gallery and Doug Gabriel ?

PapaL
01-02-2006, 01:28 PM
Another troll. So you are saying Carr is mentally challenged? Nothing in four years? Wow when you suck you suckith the most huh frogger? Your not watching the games your watching him....you are like the wonger....in need of help..yes much!

OK David, go work on scrambling out of bounds or looking to your second read.

(Oh no - Got a negative point for this comment):sarcasm:

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 01:53 PM
Another troll. So you are saying Carr is mentally challenged? Nothing in four years? Wow when you suck you suckith the most huh frogger? Your not watching the games your watching him....you are like the wonger....in need of help..yes much!

A troll?No, a smart football fan who isn't blinded by bad loyalty. He went to a Junior College before Fresno because he couldn't cut it in the smarts department. He has now been here 4 years and can't learn simple NFL truths like don't stare down your receiver. That was embarrassing on Sunday Night Football when they laughed at him. He also hasn't learned how not to take a sack. There has also been rumblings all year that he doesn't stay late after practice to work on things going wrong and he won't study film after practice. He has regressed.

How 'Bout Them Texans???
01-02-2006, 02:03 PM
i want a new qb that will actually win games and then maybe i can watch sportscenter on espn without having them barely mention the texans, and when they do, its always an insult and they just laugh at how they think theyre so pathetic and they dont know what david carr is thinking when he lets opportunity slip through his hands.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 02:11 PM
:brickwall If it was a talent problem with with the OL they would have fired Casserly . Its either coaching QB play or both .

They have drafted Pitts 2nd , Weary 3rd , Wand 3rd . They signed FA's Weigert , Mckinney , Wade . Theres more to the story than Carr drops back and gets creamed .

If Carr stays I hope its because Reeves and the new coach think he can be salvaged and not because Mcnair likes him .

mexican_texan
01-02-2006, 02:24 PM
has anyone noticed how his release changes? I don't remember seeing a good release from him since last season. It seems to me that he has sort of been trying to throw the ball sidearmed AND properly.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 02:27 PM
has anyone noticed how his release changes? I don't remember seeing a good release from him since last season. It seems to me that he has sort of been trying to throw the ball sidearmed AND properly.

I've noticed the sidearm more then anything else, especially when he is rushed. It seems like he has to think about throwing the ball properly and it just doesnt happen naturally.

afcman
01-02-2006, 02:32 PM
I can't tell you how many times I've seen on TV where Carr comes off the field and the first thing he does is "fix" his hair. I actually saw where a coach came over to show him photos from the game and talk strategy and he didn't even look at the coach or the photos, he "fixed" his hair!

I gave him a chance. I no longer have faith in him. He has to prove himself.

And to me it doesn't seem like he is improving at all. It may indeed be partly because of coaching but I also see a lack of fire in him too. I also don't think he has respect from the other players either.

NWTexan Fan
01-02-2006, 02:42 PM
............It may indeed be partly because of coaching but I also see a lack of fire in him too. I also don't think he has respect from the other players either.

Could any of that be attributed to the fact he's on his back more often then a cheap Las Vegas whore?

Cripes...I know we can't baby him, but to think he's been going through this for four friggin years! Think about it! Every game you go into for four years you know you're going to help set the sack record every game. I would think your mechanics, head space, etc IS going to evolve - and not in a good way - over that time period.

Yes Wonger...I want to make passionate man love with Mr. Carr. :drool:

afcman
01-02-2006, 02:57 PM
Could any of that be attributed to the fact he's on his back more often then a cheap Las Vegas whore?

That wouldn't happen unless you were one. How many other men would keep letting that happen. I WOULDN'T. You'd think after a while he get fed up and mad as ***** about it. And do what it takes to not let that happen.

Throw the friggin ball away for one thing. ANYTHING! Call nothing but running plays no matter what the coach says. :rolleyes: I didn't see where it really bothered him that much. Where's the fire in the belly? The eye of the tiger? This is just one reason why I think he lacks respect from his fellow players. I've seen other QB's who got sacked alot in a game and you could feel the anger through the TV from them.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 03:06 PM
:bomb: NWTexan fan and Carr on Brokeback mountain .

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 03:06 PM
That wouldn't happen unless you were one. How many other men would keep letting that happen. I WOULDN'T. You'd think after a while he get fed up and mad as ***** about it. And do what it takes to not let that happen.

Throw the friggin ball away for one thing. ANYTHING! Call nothing but running plays no matter what the coach says. :rolleyes: I didn't see where it really bothered him that much. Where's the fire in the belly? The eye of the tiger? This is just one reason why I think he lacks respect from his fellow players. I've seen other QB's who got sacked alot in a game and you could feel the anger through the TV from them.

This is also attributed to the fact that he doesn't stay after practice or watch extra film, as I stated above. I've been hearing about this locker room gripe all year. He is a prima donna.

GrandPa
01-02-2006, 04:05 PM
Are there any good quarterbacks coming out in 2007?

Carr is not a good QB and he has not shown improvement over 4 years...

Harrington, Boller, Alex Smith, David Carr, Rex Grossman, throw a dart and pick your QB...

We will be having this same discussion at the end of the 2006 season and the excuse then will be that he played under a new coach yada yada yada...

The Texans will go nowhere with Carr at the helm...

the wonger need food
01-02-2006, 04:19 PM
Another troll. So you are saying Carr is mentally challenged? Nothing in four years? Wow when you suck you suckith the most huh frogger? Your not watching the games your watching him....you are like the wonger....in need of help..yes much!


Yes we are saying he has done nothing in 4 years. Look at his win/loss record and identical mistakes he makes over and over again and it will be very obvious to you. Let's have this conversation again after his new contract expires.

In the meantime, we hope you are enjoying that People and/or GQ spread you have stashed under your matress.

WaylonJennings67
01-02-2006, 04:23 PM
No way to judge David yet, due simply to the fact that he's playing for an expansion team...........I'd give him @ least another year................another gamebreaker on offense & some more time to throw & I think he can be a playoff QB......time will tell.

kenneth24
01-02-2006, 04:48 PM
That wouldn't happen unless you were one. How many other men would keep letting that happen. I WOULDN'T. You'd think after a while he get fed up and mad as ***** about it. And do what it takes to not let that happen.

Throw the friggin ball away for one thing. ANYTHING! Call nothing but running plays no matter what the coach says. :rolleyes: I didn't see where it really bothered him that much. Where's the fire in the belly? The eye of the tiger? This is just one reason why I think he lacks respect from his fellow players. I've seen other QB's who got sacked alot in a game and you could feel the anger through the TV from them.
Fire in the belly? Every time he shows emotion, he's called immature. But like i said before when Peyton does the same thing its because he's a competitor! So basically if he shows something he is immature but if he composes himself he's seen as not caring!

Fiddy
01-02-2006, 04:57 PM
Because Banks was to busy thowing picks for TD returns!! You do remember Carr made the same throw against the Chiefs right??? It's like Carr made a horrible pass to some of you guys. Banks does it after sitting for 15 games and y'all are all on him. Carr does it during the season and you come up with excuses.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 05:07 PM
No way to judge David yet, due simply to the fact that he's playing for an expansion team...........I'd give him @ least another year................another gamebreaker on offense & some more time to throw & I think he can be a playoff QB......time will tell.

Why don't we just put him on the Colts and try him out..lol. That is alot of "ifs" and things. He shouldn't be this far behind 4 years in. People need to stop the excuses.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 05:18 PM
After only 2 seasons, Boller (Ravens) was on the chopping block all season long for similar play. I really believe Carr's bad play is due to lack of protection but he deserves the criticism and should be on a short leash with a veteran back-up who can actually play (B. Johnson, D. Culpepper, J. Garcia, D. Flutie, or J. Kitna). I don't want to hang the future on any of these guys but putting a little pressure and having a great insurance policy at the QB position would improve production at that position.

Fiddy
01-02-2006, 05:20 PM
After only 2 seasons, Boller (Ravens) was on the chopping block all season long for similar play. I really believe Carr's bad play is due to lack of protection but he deserves the criticism and should be on a short leash with a veteran back-up who can actually play (B. Johnson, D. Culpepper, J. Garcia, D. Flutie, or J. Kitna). I don't want to hang the future on any of these guys but putting a little pressure and having a great insurance policy at the QB position would improve production at that position. After two season for Boller, after 4 for Carr.

Carr has protection, he makes it look bad by having 0 pocket presence.

dalemurphy
01-02-2006, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=dat_boy_yec][QUOTE=Honoring Earl 34]:ok: Well , I will not hang my hat on Carr . He brings on alot of problems on himself . How did Banks get the ball downfield and not get sacked .


Banks hadn't played all year. Carr has done the same thing this season playing 16 games..lol.


Carr threw 11 interceptions in 16 games. Banks threw 2 interceptions in 30 minutes. There is plenty to criticize Carr for but you lose credibility with stupid statements like that!

IshouldbeGM
01-02-2006, 05:45 PM
I agree with the above post....carr has zero pocket presence. Ive only seen about 2 or 3 plays all year where he makes a pass outside the pocket that wasnt a designed bootleg. I see tom brady, rothlesberger, plummer, all the other above avg qb's improvise and make plays when they're pocket collapses all the time! Carr sometimes runs into his own lineman. I believe carr is damaged goods and will never be the same. 8 mill bonus and 5.5 mill a yr is tooooo much money to give a qb who has shown nothing.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 05:46 PM
[QUOTE=HoustonFrog][QUOTE=dat_boy_yec]


Carr threw 11 interceptions in 16 games. Banks threw 2 interceptions in 30 minutes. There is plenty to criticize Carr for but you lose credibility with stupid statements like that!

What did I say that was stupid?I think attacking posters is ridiculous because people don't think the current Texans hung the moon. I didn't say the stats were the same. I said that Banks hadn't taken game time snaps all year. People were all over him about the two picks. Carr made similar throws in all of his games. If you were responding to the bold, so be it.

dalemurphy
01-02-2006, 05:48 PM
After two season for Boller, after 4 for Carr.

Carr has protection, he makes it look bad by having 0 pocket presence.

Boller has been in the league for 3 years, not 2. Boller entered the league in 2003 and Carr in 2002. Furthermore, Carr's 3rd season was much better than Boller's season this year. Everyone wants to get excited about Boller's last two games. Fine, then look at Carr's first 7 games last season!

Johnny Utah
01-02-2006, 05:52 PM
People said the same thing about Jake Plummer, but look what he's done under Kubiak and Shanahan. I would like to see if Carr can have the same kind of improvement under Kubiak if he ends up being our next HC.

dalemurphy
01-02-2006, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=dalemurphy][QUOTE=HoustonFrog]

What did I say that was stupid?I think attacking posters is ridiculous because people don't think the current Texans hung the moon. I didn't say the stats were the same. I said that Banks hadn't taken game time snaps all year. People were all over him about the two picks. Carr made similar throws in all of his games. If you were responding to the bold, so be it.

So, it is luck or coincidence that you attribute to Carr's low interception total.

By the way, didn't Carr throw for 295 yards just last week? I believe he got the ball downfield last week as well.

Carr had a bad season but it wasn't nearly as bad as some would make it out to be. He threw more TDs than Ints on an awful team. His completion percentage was around 60%. He had 300 yards rushing. He averaged a little over 1 interception every 2 games despite a season of physical abuse. I'm not sure what you think Banks would've done with Victor Riley at left tackle against Pittsburgh or Indianapolis.

Ibar_Harry
01-02-2006, 05:56 PM
People said the same thing about Jake Plummer, but look what he's done under Kubiak and Shanahan. I would like to see if Carr can have the same kind of improvement under Kubiak if he ends up being our next HC.

Try Bledsole and Buffalo vs Bledsole and Dallas.

dalemurphy
01-02-2006, 06:01 PM
I agree with the above post....carr has zero pocket presence. Ive only seen about 2 or 3 plays all year where he makes a pass outside the pocket that wasnt a designed bootleg. I see tom brady, rothlesberger, plummer, all the other above avg qb's improvise and make plays when they're pocket collapses all the time! Carr sometimes runs into his own lineman. I believe carr is damaged goods and will never be the same. 8 mill bonus and 5.5 mill a yr is tooooo much money to give a qb who has shown nothing.


Troy Aikman never had pocket-presence either. He did, however, have a pocket when he was winning superbowls. Drew Bledsoe doesn't have pocket-presence. However, when he's surrounded by the right people he is a probowl QB. Can we stop this argument if everyone will agree that David Carr isn't nor will he ever be in John Elway's class or in Bret Favre's class? He can't takeover a game on his own talent. He needs help around him just like 99% of NFL QBs. You can grade him when he has the opportunity to play under those circumstances. Until then, you don't know how good he can be. However, if you watch the first half of 2004, you know he can be among the top half of NFL starting QBs.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 06:09 PM
[QUOTE=HoustonFrog][QUOTE=dalemurphy]

So, it is luck or coincidence that you attribute to Carr's low interception total.

By the way, didn't Carr throw for 295 yards just last week? I believe he got the ball downfield last week as well.

Carr had a bad season but it wasn't nearly as bad as some would make it out to be. He threw more TDs than Ints on an awful team. His completion percentage was around 60%. He had 300 yards rushing. He averaged a little over 1 interception every 2 games despite a season of physical abuse. I'm not sure what you think Banks would've done with Victor Riley at left tackle against Pittsburgh or Indianapolis.

He doesn't throw alot of picks because, with the exception of a few games, he doesn't throw downfield and he holds onto the ball too long. I don't care if the blind squirrel found a nut. Over 4 years you are supposed to pick up things where people can see you are progressing. Did you not see the last ESPN game or any games?It is a joke that he stares down so many receivers. Even if they aren't picked they are knocked down. He hold onto the ball even when the line does give him time. He has regressed. He doesn't study film, according to many locker room reports and doesn't stay after practice to correct problems. Sorry that you guys want to worship him. People forget the teams they played at the end of the year. They made plays on horrible teams. I'm not sure why Banks keeps coming back to me. Maybe someone else said something but I never said Banks was better. He is a bad backup.

bigbag12
01-02-2006, 06:16 PM
untill the get CARR any resemblance of an O line, we will never what he is/could be.most QB do a 5 step drop and release. carr tries for a 3 step drop back and release but usually relies on the drop 2 steps, scramble for your life and if you have time after that and still conscious then throw the ball.how casserly kept his job is freaking beyond me.

Ibar_Harry
01-02-2006, 06:18 PM
[QUOTE=dalemurphy][QUOTE=HoustonFrog]

He doesn't throw alot of picks because, with the exception of a few games, he doesn't throw downfield and he holds onto the ball too long. I don't care if the blind squirrel found a nut. Over 4 years you are supposed to pick up things where people can see you are progressing. Did you not see the last ESPN game or any games?It is a joke that he stares down so many receivers. Even if they aren't picked they are knocked down. He hold onto the ball even when the line does give him time. He has regressed. He doesn't study film, according to many locker room reports and doesn't stay after practice to correct problems. Sorry that you guys want to worship him. People forget the teams they played at the end of the year. They made plays on horrible teams. I'm not sure why Banks keeps coming back to me. Maybe someone else said something but I never said Banks was better. He is a bad backup.

Again, I think your assessment is wrong. I say that, because Bob McNair in his news conference quitely stated that Carr is the QB of the future Texans. Is he perfect, by no means, but he is who they plan on working with as their QB. That announcement has been made after careful reveiw by Reeves. My conclusion, like so many others, is they must see something the other coaches dis not. Perhaps,like when he called his own plays we scored the most points in the history of the franchise. Of course after that quarter the coaches took over play calling and we proceeded to loose the game. No, its the play calling an a whole lot else which is making Carr and every other player on this ball club look bad. WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE A GOOD COACHING STAFF BEFORE VALUATING ANY BALL PLAYER ON THIS BALL CLUB. Why do you thing McNAIR said they were going to evaluate the candidates based on what schemes they are going to run. Why do you think he said the changing of schemes was a bad thing. Sorry, look to coaching as probably the biggest problem this team has. Quite frankly it was the assistants that lead to the downfall of this ball club. The head coach didn't have the b.... to put his buddies in place. That's the problem in a nut shell.

Grid
01-02-2006, 06:20 PM
having a "man-crush" has nothing to do with it. My annoyance stems from the fact that this conversation has been had a hundred times, by equally *****ic people.. and it didnt go anywhere the other times either.

Its a pointless conversation.

Carr is staying.. he is getting more time.. he is our QB whether you want him to be or not.. deal with it.

I understand that you are an impatient and ignorant fan who wants immediate results. I understand that you want the next Joe Montana.. and you want him to come in and play at a pro bowl level behind our useless line. I understand that you dont care if our coaching staff severely restrains our offense. What I dont understand.. is how you got stupid enough to ignore all of these things, and are willing to totally dog a young player because he doesnt live up to your unreachable standards?

I have criticized Carr's penchant for telegraphing his passes.. but im not quite foolish enough to focus only on where he has had problems.. and ignore all his positives.


but like I said.. this is a pointless conversation.. its not going to go anywhere.. all it is is an excuse for more ignorant people to get together and bash a player who they have a personal vendetta against.

Hes staying.. hes going to get more time.. he is our QB for at least another season or two.. deal.

Honoring Earl 34
01-02-2006, 06:21 PM
:redtowel: The point was not how great Banks is , its we are a 2-14 team and it took an injury for Carr to be benched .

CajunTexan
01-02-2006, 06:28 PM
Troy Aikman never had pocket-presence either. He did, however, have a pocket when he was winning superbowls. Drew Bledsoe doesn't have pocket-presence. However, when he's surrounded by the right people he is a probowl QB. Can we stop this argument if everyone will agree that David Carr isn't nor will he ever be in John Elway's class or in Bret Favre's class? He can't takeover a game on his own talent. He needs help around him just like 99% of NFL QBs. You can grade him when he has the opportunity to play under those circumstances. Until then, you don't know how good he can be. However, if you watch the first half of 2004, you know he can be among the top half of NFL starting QBs.

WORD

dale...I have been saying this all year, but some will not let it go. Others let trolls like Wonger get them fired up about the entire deal.

Like Grid said, the dude, hair and all, is here to stay for 2 possibly 3 more years, DEAL WITIT.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 06:29 PM
[QUOTE=HoustonFrog][QUOTE=dalemurphy]

Again, I think your assessment is wrong. I say that, because Bob McNair in his news conference quitely stated that Carr is the QB of the future Texans. Is he perfect, by no means, but he is who they plan on working with as their QB. That announcement has been made after careful reveiw by Reeves. My conclusion, like so many others, is they must see something the other coaches dis not. Perhaps,like when he called his own plays we scored the most points in the history of the franchise. Of course after that quarter the coaches took over play calling and we proceeded to loose the game. No, its the play calling an a whole lot else which is making Carr and every other player on this ball club look bad. WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE A GOOD COACHING STAFF BEFORE VALUATING ANY BALL PLAYER ON THIS BALL CLUB. Why do you thing McNAIR said they were going to evaluate the candidates based on what schemes they are going to run. Why do you think he said the changing of schemes was a bad thing. Sorry, look to coaching as probably the biggest problem this team has. Quite frankly it was the assistants that lead to the downfall of this ball club. The head coach didn't have the b.... to put his buddies in place. That's the problem in a nut shell.

Seriously, what is McNair supposed to say when firing a coach? He isn't going to come clean on everything. Why is Reeves all of sudden the word after a month?People need to start thinking for themselves. McNair is still learning the game and admitted that when he hired Reeves. It isn't like I don't want Carr to be good. We all do. I do see alot of regression though and it had nothing to do with coaching. People are looking at the end of the year like we barely missed .500. We played one of the worst schedules the second half of the season and for the most part played against teams in our same boat. I'm not putting too much into Babin dominating the 49ers and things like that. I think his main problem is football smarts and I'm not sure that will change.

Grid, you are correct, he is the QB now but that doesn't mean people have to be drones and take what is said and done as word. I didn't know in order to post here you had to be part of the Texan cult. I'm just worried because this is a good starting point for a turnaround and McNair doesn't need to do things the nice way. It is time to be tough and look at what has happened.

Grid
01-02-2006, 06:33 PM
You dont have to ride Carr's jock.. but if you are a Texans fan.. you could at least attempt to be positive about him and his potential.

I see no point in dogging him for the next 3 seasons.

Carr has alot going for him if you care to look.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 06:39 PM
You dont have to ride Carr's jock.. but if you are a Texans fan.. you could at least attempt to be positive about him and his potential.

I see no point in dogging him for the next 3 seasons.

Carr has alot going for him if you care to look.

I do see positives. I just get frustratingly flustered..lol..when I see the other stuff. To tell you the truth I worry about his motivation. He seems kind of laid back about the losses. Oh well, I won't bring it up anymore, I want them to win as much as anyone. I just have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell..lol

Grid
01-02-2006, 06:44 PM
more cowbell!! hehe

Well.. when you have been sacked as much as Carr.. and lost as many games as Carr has due to circumstances beyond his control.. I think you eventually have to be able to take the loss without beating yourself up.

Im sure he hates losing.. im sure he plays to win every game.. I just think you cant expect (especially after this season) for him to get too choked up after a loss.


I think the motivation is there.. it hasnt been quite so apparent this year as in previous years. He has always been fired up when he is out there on the field. I think a new staff... an offensive HC.. and a reevaluation of talent to make sure our best players are out there... will spark up the old Carr from 2002-2003

Ibar_Harry
01-02-2006, 06:46 PM
more cowbell!! hehe

Well.. when you have been sacked as much as Carr.. and lost as many games as Carr has due to circumstances beyond his control.. I think you eventually have to be able to take the loss without beating yourself up.

Im sure he hates losing.. im sure he plays to win every game.. I just think you cant expect (especially after this season) for him to get too choked up after a loss.


I think the motivation is there.. it hasnt been quite so apparent this year as in previous years. He has always been fired up when he is out there on the field. I think a new staff... an offensive HC.. and a reevaluation of talent to make sure our best players are out there... will spark up the old Carr from 2002-2003

What is funny the 1 qtr he's allowed to call his own game we score the most points the team has every scored in a qtr. Then the coaches take over the play calling again and we loose the game.

Grid
01-02-2006, 06:53 PM
yah that intrigued me too Ibar. Im hoping that the next coaching staff will explore that possibility a bit more.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 06:56 PM
After two season for Boller, after 4 for Carr.

Carr has protection, he makes it look bad by having 0 pocket presence.

I agree 100%. Other 1st rounders have been given the boot much sooner.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 07:01 PM
All I have to say is forget a QB of the future, we need a QB NOW. After 4 years he should be the future, he should be the present. Other recent #1 Overall QB's (Manning (2), Vick, Palmer) are the present, yet our guy is still being labeled our QB of the future?

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 07:03 PM
Boller has been in the league for 3 years, not 2. Boller entered the league in 2003 and Carr in 2002. Furthermore, Carr's 3rd season was much better than Boller's season this year. Everyone wants to get excited about Boller's last two games. Fine, then look at Carr's first 7 games last season!

Noone's excited about Boller's season. He's on his way out already and he has had 1 less season to try. And if you look at the origional post, I said Boller had 2 bad seasons and was then on the chopping block all this season. 2 + 1 = 3. Maybe it wasn't clear enough of a post.

The point is Carr is getting more patience from an organization than any previous #1 QB in recent history. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn't. But until he produces like a #1 overall pick, we've gotta ask, "is he really that great?" I've been on his bandwagon since we drafted him thinking he was the next Peyton Manning. You have to consider with the way he has played this year, he might be the next Ryan Leaf.

GrandPa
01-02-2006, 07:10 PM
Its been 4 years this is the future...

By the time we get a good quarterback, since you want to give Carr a few more years to develop; DD, Bush, AJ will be at the end of their careers and we will be starting over again...

the wonger need food
01-02-2006, 08:29 PM
untill the get CARR any resemblance of an O line, we will never what he is/could be.most QB do a 5 step drop and release. carr tries for a 3 step drop back and release but usually relies on the drop 2 steps, scramble for your life and if you have time after that and still conscious then throw the ball.how casserly kept his job is freaking beyond me.

What was his excuse yesterday... against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL? He was 3/11 with 23 yards... against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL and with plenty of time to throw. This excuse is played out.

the wonger need food
01-02-2006, 08:33 PM
[QUOTE=HoustonFrog][QUOTE=dalemurphy]

So, it is luck or coincidence that you attribute to Carr's low interception total.



It is attributed to the fact that 90% of his passes were 2 yard hitches or dump offs to a back out of the backfield.

NWTexan Fan
01-03-2006, 02:22 PM
:bomb: NWTexan fan and Carr on Brokeback mountain .

Ok...that's funny. omg....

I'd be more upset if I didn't have a number 34 jersey hanging in my closet. That was actually very clever Earl!

NWTexan Fan
01-03-2006, 02:26 PM
All I have to say is forget a QB of the future, we need a QB NOW. After 4 years he should be the future, he should be the present. Other recent #1 Overall QB's (Manning (2), Vick, Palmer) are the present, yet our guy is still being labeled our QB of the future?

Good example with Vick but it shows you that one awesome player can't get your team to the playoffs!

NWTexan Fan
01-03-2006, 02:30 PM
untill the get CARR any resemblance of an O line, we will never what he is/could be.most QB do a 5 step drop and release. carr tries for a 3 step drop back and release but usually relies on the drop 2 steps, scramble for your life and if you have time after that and still conscious then throw the ball.how casserly kept his job is freaking beyond me.

Awesome post! Totally agree! And it's funny too..."if he's still conscious..." LOL

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 02:42 PM
What was his excuse yesterday... against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL? He was 3/11 with 23 yards... against the 2nd worst defense in the NFL and with plenty of time to throw. This excuse is played out.
I guess he can use the same excuse that Banks has because Banks thew 2 interceptions that directly cost us the game. And in case you didn't watch the game too much the field conditions were not great, both teams tried running the ball to combat that. If you want to compare just QB to QB then fine, but overall the whole team got outplayed. If our oline is so great then why didn't our offensive line get more rushing yards that the 49rs? If our defense is better they why didn't we get more interceptions? Your logic is whacked and you have some silly little Carrphobia when you post.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2006, 03:12 PM
:tv: I guess the slates been wiped clean but its like having one false start in a sprint . The next false move and your out .

Bob is looking for a coach to challenge the players . Its up to the players to respond .

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 03:49 PM
This change isn't going to happen overnight, bringing in new offensive and defensive system will require time for the players to adjust. I am not sure that this 2-14 team can be corrected faster under a new managment system. We went from 7 wins to 2, but next year I doubt if we would have only won 2 games again under Capers. I'm sure that firing Capers was the politically correct thing to do because he basically lost the fans and collective ownership pressures led to this. I am not sure however that briinging in a new system is going to right this ship right away and will be cure all, we still have the same players. Fans will need to be patient for whomever comes aboard because it looks like a long road.

JSlat6
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
too be honest i was not a big carr fan in college. But he has adapted pretty good with all things concidered. The one season that he had blocking he did pretty good. No one can blame Carr for the losses if he doesn't have an o-line. There for with that being said i believe CARR is the answer, and Ragnone should be the second string guy not banks. If anything let banks go. There are two qbs that will be available in the next year or so. That should be considered and those two are. Reggie McNeal and Vince Young. One of these two should be picked up by the Texans. If not then we will be a sub par team for many years.

eriadoc
01-03-2006, 03:58 PM
Asking the question "Is Carr really the answer?" is absolutely fair and necessary. However, in this specific instance, it's not fair to ask that question without also asking "What other QB, put on this team from Day One and taking all the snaps, would have done any better?"

It's because of the O-line's inept pass protection that a short-drop offense was installed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me why you'd draft a QB with a downfield arm who passed a lot in college and then have him do 3-step drops all season and get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds. That's not his forte and it's the coaches' responsibility to play to his strengths if they want to get the best out of him.

With all that blazing speed, maybe we should have Mathis run 5-yd curl routes all next season.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 04:01 PM
In my opinion, not for an 8 million dollar bonus and locking up for 3 yrs at 5.5 mill a yr. Id let him hit the open market and get him for the dollar amount he's worth. If he leaves, id go after brad johnson and groom a young qb or go after david garrard from j-ville. Its plenty of qbs out there we can get for less than the price of david carr. We have too many other needs to fill than to sink 8 mill to a qb who hasnt shown anything!!

There are plenty of BAD QBs around. Do you really think Jax will just let go of their talented backup without asking for a lot of payback? Besides, Brad Johnson isn't very good. He's bounced around more than a rubber ball. Carr is good enough to win. He's no Peyton Manning, but neither is anybody else.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2006, 04:10 PM
:yahoo: I think being an expansion team and not having a history of being perenial losers , is to our advantage . Having said that , the next coach better bring in a system that fits the talent at hand and one they can execute . I don't want a retread coach either or a retread OC and DC . I would use this as an chance to give a HOF coach his start .

I think Lombardi got his first job as a Head Coach at 50 . To the lowly Packers who were formed with a lot of high picks but no direction . That changed quickly with Lombardi , probably 2 minutes into their first meeting . A good read about Lombardi is a book called "When Pride Still Mattered ".

If in a normal draft you hit on 40% ... maybe we're due to hit 60% .

dat_boy_yec
01-03-2006, 04:14 PM
Carr may be the answer IMO. Look at what he accomplished when he was allowed to call the plays for a little bit. When he is given the opportunity he makes great throws. (wether they're caught or not is another thing.) His ability to read plays and patience in the pocket should have improved with coaching and protection. The line has some talent on it, it just hasn't been utilized, and you can't even say that the coaches tried to improve the line because they just moved ppl around hoping a miracle would happen. Even if we had gotten Pace I think the line coaching would have messed with his talents. I could see it now, "Pace slow down, you don't need to put your all into it all the time we need to be conservative. So conserve some energy." :brickwall What do we really want from Carr? Me I want improvement, leadership, and a much better record, including playoff victories. Do I think Carr can do that? Hell yeah. Do I expect him to show us a birth certificate from Krypton? Hell naw. To me he's a good answer.

dml923
01-03-2006, 05:34 PM
if you have one second to throw the ball away you will suck, i believe if you give carr 3 seconds he will become a huge impact on the team

Texans86
01-03-2006, 05:39 PM
Does anyone remember last offseason when the coaches added a horn in the bubble to get Carr to throw the ball in like 2 sec. That was funny. I mean, why didn't I think of that. Better OL? Nope. Let's just make him get rid of the ball faster. That'll work all year. So what's our next problem?

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 05:50 PM
People can say all day that it is just the line or the coaches or whatever but in 4 years a guy is supposed to learn more. Many sacks, if you watch the games, weren't a timing thing but a holding on to the ball thing, looking for a bigger play. Maybe he could find an open guy on those occassions if he didn't stare down the first receiver. He has regressed. Hopefully that changes but the guy allegedly doesn't like the film room or working after practice also.

wenskek
01-03-2006, 06:32 PM
all you carr lovers need to pull your thumbs out of your a****. he is not the answer to this franchise and never will be. aside from the interceptions banks threw, in my opinion with banks in it actually looked like a better offense with him in there. banks first pass attempt(roughly 50yards i believe to bradford) collected more yards than david threw for the entire first quarter(i believe it was 23 yards). also banks never once got sacked or was even remotely close, he was standing in the pocked and fireing the ball, something i haven't seen david do in a while. more than half the time david steps back and never sets his feet he starts jumping around. he has no patience in the pocket. for once i would love to see him drop back step up and fire the ball. mark my words david will never take this team to a playoff win.

PapaL
01-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Good example with Vick but it shows you that one awesome player can't get your team to the playoffs!

What are you talking about? Every single one of those guys have already led their team to the playoffs, including Vick.

HJam72
01-03-2006, 06:37 PM
Carr wasn't sacked in the San Fran. game either and he didn't throw 2 picks to lose the game.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2006, 07:11 PM
:yahoo: I'm burying the hatchett and blaming all the coaches for everything . Now having said that from here on out all players are to be held accountable .

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 07:16 PM
aside from the interceptions banks threw, in my opinion with banks in it actually looked like a better offense with him in there. Now that is one of the funniest posts i've seen in long long time, OMG that had me laughing..LOL LOL LOL Please post some more this is too good. And PBuc is probably our best cornerback too, oh wait, Hollings just needs a chance to be the starter, or better yet, TJ is a stud lineman.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 08:32 PM
:tv: I guess the slates been wiped clean but its like having one false start in a sprint . The next false move and your out .

Bob is looking for a coach to challenge the players . Its up to the players to respond .

Capers challenged the players at all levels. Challenging the players was not a problem Capers had.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 08:33 PM
:yahoo: I'm burying the hatchett and blaming all the coaches for everything . Now having said that from here on out all players are to be held accountable .

I never saw Capers miss one tackle, Pendry drop one pass or Fangio blow one coverage all season.

UGA
01-03-2006, 08:45 PM
Geez you guys are crazy.

A Qb should make people around him better, but can he improve the GM, coaches, o-line and defense? It all plays into his development.

Furthermore, with all of the needs we have at this point, what moron would also create a QB mess on top of things? It would be even more of a disaster then it is.

Kitna and BJohnson? If you gave all the GM's the choice between Carr, Kitna and Johnson it would be 95% votes for Carr. He's young, tough, has a live arm and has had absolutely nothing around him in this organization. Kitna ran a couple second rate teams and was replaced once people realized he was holdin them back, and Brad Dilfer has made his name by allowing coaches to win games around him while he makes sure not to screw it up for everyone else. The question is, would Carr have outplayed Kitna in Cinn? I think yes. If Carr spends a year holding a clipboard and then learns to play with those dynamic players he is probably thriving by now. Kitna had that opportunity and was sent to the bench permenantly.

NWTexan Fan
01-03-2006, 09:10 PM
What are you talking about? Every single one of those guys have already led their team to the playoffs, including Vick.

Oops...my bad. I was talking about this season...

wenskek
01-04-2006, 02:03 AM
Now that is one of the funniest posts i've seen in long long time, OMG that had me laughing..LOL LOL LOL Please post some more this is too good. And PBuc is probably our best cornerback too, oh wait, Hollings just needs a chance to be the starter, or better yet, TJ is a stud lineman.


your crazy, banks first drive down the field was the best of the day hooking up with bradford on to huge plays resulting in a td.

bigtex77
01-05-2006, 08:15 AM
Hey bigtex...lived in Seattle and surrounding areas most of my life (44 yrs and counting) and actually never did live in Tx. In my formative years of discovering sports and who I liked, I gravitated with no explanation to the Oilers. Perhaps, Billy White Shoes, Pastorini, Kenny B. later Earl C had something to do with it! LOL! I was in love with "Luv Ya Blue!" My loyalties followed them to Tenessee but now back to Houston.
The reason I asked is because I had a friend move to the Seattle area about two years ago and I was just seeing if you were him. I think it's great that we have at least two fans way up in the NW.

Runner
01-05-2006, 09:56 AM
aside from the interceptions banks threw, in my opinion with banks in it actually looked like a better offense with him in there.

Other than that how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Kimmy
01-05-2006, 10:13 AM
But what about Joey from Detroit? He had an established Oline and still couldn't make it. I love Carr, I love the Texans, but all this talk of suddenly wanting to draft Young as our QB could put us in the same position we were when we started, do we really want another rookie QB?

(first post, go easy :) )

Straightshooter
01-05-2006, 01:59 PM
A troll?No, a smart football fan who isn't blinded by bad loyalty. He went to a Junior College before Fresno because he couldn't cut it in the smarts department. He has now been here 4 years and can't learn simple NFL truths like don't stare down your receiver. That was embarrassing on Sunday Night Football when they laughed at him. He also hasn't learned how not to take a sack. There has also been rumblings all year that he doesn't stay late after practice to work on things going wrong and he won't study film after practice. He has regressed.

Might be because of his family problems. Family more important than football. :redtowel: If we draft Vince young will these threads die..I hope so!

Straightshooter
01-05-2006, 02:04 PM
Yes we are saying he has done nothing in 4 years. Look at his win/loss record and identical mistakes he makes over and over again and it will be very obvious to you. Let's have this conversation again after his new contract expires.

In the meantime, we hope you are enjoying that People and/or GQ spread you have stashed under your matress.

No no Wonger Donger. Sorry happly married with a daughter I just think you want to be David Carr and be in the spotlight. Do me a favor and quit talking about David Carr, give him a year under the new coach and if he sucks then you can say I told you so. Fair? :redtowel: I say give him a year, and lets see what happens.