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View Full Version : Is Bush our Earl?


Nighthawk
01-02-2006, 01:20 AM
Let's assume he comes out. I've seen him, he's fabulous. What I don't know is whether he can carry an NFL team the way Earl Campbell did. How about some of you guys who know this stuff backwards and forwards talk about that. My worry is injury, Bush just looks like a guy who might get injured. Earl did all the injuring, the way I remember it.

Grid
01-02-2006, 01:21 AM
if we get him.. he will probably be alot more effective if we either keep DD around and have him split carries.. or.. if we go for an offense that features more passing, so that he doesnt have to be a workhorse.

Dunno though..maybe he will surprise everyone and turn out to be very durable.

Johnny Utah
01-02-2006, 01:56 AM
They should make Morency give up his number to give to him.

Grid
01-02-2006, 01:57 AM
Im betting he will take 25 or 35

michaelm
01-02-2006, 02:02 AM
Tiki Barber looks to me like a guy who would get injured, but he's a rock...
Maybe Bush will be the same.

Or maybe not.


There are plenty of guys who look like they won't be injury concerns, but are.
You just never know, I guess.

berkman17
01-02-2006, 02:08 AM
if we keep dd and reggie around, we can have them each get about 15 carries with bush getting about 10 plays lined up as a receiver (ie, slot) or motioning to the outside.

imagine someone like PBuc (as an example of a nickel back) trying to cover bush ... hilarious.

now imagine PBuc trying to tackle bush in the open field ... i'm drooling just thinking about it.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 02:54 AM
They show the interview with LT on ESPN every 5 minutes between bowl games as he talks about Bush working out with him this summer and how good Bush's work ethic is. If the segment has any truth to it, he should be as dependable as any rookie RB.

michaelm
01-02-2006, 03:06 AM
imagine someone like PBuc (as an example of a nickel back) trying to cover bush ... hilarious.



I get your point, but it's hilarious imagining PBuch trying to cover ANYONE

ATX
01-02-2006, 03:39 AM
Let's assume he comes out. I've seen him, he's fabulous. What I don't know is whether he can carry an NFL team the way Earl Campbell did. How about some of you guys who know this stuff backwards and forwards talk about that. My worry is injury, Bush just looks like a guy who might get injured. Earl did all the injuring, the way I remember it.

I just don't see how anything about Bush makes you think he looks like a guy that might get injured other than playing football. This is the NFL, virtually every player who plays the game gets injured during their career, Even AJ got his this year.

Grid
01-02-2006, 03:41 AM
Its different for RBs.. durability is alot more important.

They arent being tackled 5-10 times a game by a 200lb CB.. they are being tackled 30+ times a game by 3 or 4 300+lb Dlinemen.. or 200+ lb LBs.

bigtex77
01-02-2006, 03:42 AM
I just don't see how anything about Bush makes you think he looks like a guy that might get injured other than playing football. This is the NFL, virtually every player who plays the game gets injured during their career, Even AJ got his this year.

Some of the so called experts have said that he's too small to be a 25 carry a game back, which to some people = injury prone.

bigtex77
01-02-2006, 03:43 AM
Sorry Grid, you type faster than me.

Grid
01-02-2006, 03:45 AM
Hes the same size as Tiki Barber... little bit taller.. and Tiki Barber carries the ball just as much as DD does.. and doesnt get injured (much).

THat doesnt mean that Bush will be just as durable.. just saying.. Bush's size doesnt necessarily mean that he wont be a durable RB. Course.. id say that a 200LB guy has more chance of being "fragile" than a 225LB guy.

bigtex77
01-02-2006, 03:49 AM
Hes the same size as Tiki Barber... little bit taller.. and Tiki Barber carries the ball just as much as DD does.. and doesnt get injured (much).

THat doesnt mean that Bush will be just as durable.. just saying.. Bush's size doesnt necessarily mean that he wont be a durable RB. Course.. id say that a 200LB guy has more chance of being "fragile" than a 225LB guy.

Do you think Bush will put on enough weight once he's in the league to help out with the possible lack of durability? Not sure if I worded that properly.

ledzeppelin229
01-02-2006, 04:02 AM
The thing is..the coach would be an ***** to use him as a 225 lb RB. There's a reason people don't go offroading in Ferraris. Split him out, force them to keep an extra DB focused on our backfield and the matchup potential is unbelievable. Getting out of nickel would be pretty risky.

Grid
01-02-2006, 04:08 AM
I wouldnt count on it BigTex.. there is a reason why Bush has done so well.. its because of his speed and elusiveness.. if he puts on too much weight it would completely change the way he would have to run the ball. I wouldnt be surprised to see him put on 5 pounds or so.. but more than that could be risky.

Led, Bush needs to fit in our system. If he is as good as advertised, sure..we can change the system some for him.. but we cant make a drastic change. Well, i take that back.. if our next OC wants to run an offense like the Eagles or Colts... then sure.. but if we run something remotely similar to what we have been running, Bush is either going to have to take more carries, or he will have to split carries with DD. If he splits carries with DD.. that is many millions of dollars in our backfield.. and I dont think we could afford to do that for too long. So either Bush needs to be durable enough to play how we need him to, or we have to change the whole offense around to suit him. Changing the whole offense around could be an expensive and very long and drawn out affair.. so im hoping he will be durable enough.

Of course.. with the zone blocking scheme.. it may not be a big problem to let DD go eventually (much as I would hate that) and use some other cheaper back to share carries. He may not be as good as DD but as long as he keeps the defense honest I imagine it would work out fine.

We also need an OC who is perceptive enough to see that we need to share carries between backs, and willing to do that. Some coaches seem to be totally against the whole running back by comittee thing.. our coaches apparently were.. so.. our choice of OC and HC is very important to the future of Bush on this team.

tulexan
01-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Some of the so called experts have said that he's too small to be a 25 carry a game back, which to some people = injury prone.


How many 25 carry a game backs have their been in the history of the NFL?

El Tejano
01-02-2006, 10:30 AM
I think Bush will HELP turn the franchise around but not the way Earl did. This team has talent. It was just never used right. Bush will have the benefit of a RB that is already producing in the NFL splitting carries with him. Like someone said earlier, he will see alot of action at WR too to make sure he is on the field. I think Bush will be more like the kid from Philly, RB but catches alot of passes.

chuckm
01-02-2006, 10:31 AM
Im betting he will take 25 or 35


... 5 in high school, 5 in college , .... I'm guessing he'll go with ... yep ... 5

tulexan
01-02-2006, 10:36 AM
... 5 in high school, 5 in college , .... I'm guessing he'll go with ... yep ... 5

Running backs can't wear single digit numbers. I believe, but am not sure that they have to wear a number between 20-39

El Tejano
01-02-2006, 10:49 AM
I hope he wears 25 because that means Tony Hollings is nowhere around here.

Hottoddie
01-02-2006, 12:10 PM
How many 25 carry a game backs have their been in the history of the NFL?

Well, in the last 3 years that number would be "0". Most of the better ones have averaged between 20- (just under) 25 carries per game over the last 3 years.

Upon further research, only 2 RB's, since 1932, (when the NFL started keeping stats) have averaged over 25 carries per game.

Eric Dickerson (1986) 25.25 att/gm
Jamal Anderson (1998) 25.625 att/gm

Texans86
01-02-2006, 12:33 PM
Personally I don't feel that Bush will be the savior of the team. First, he hasn't had to carry the load for his team, and his durabity is a question. Second, his cost to the team, combined with DD's contract, would not allow us to do much in future free agency, and eventually we would have to cut good players because we can't pa for them. I'm not saying we won't have a problem with money if we take any other player at the first position, I'm just saying that it's a lot of money tied up at one position. Finally, I was watching the Texans show on Sunday night after the niners game, and they were interviewing AJ about the possibility of getting Bush. I think he was the most reasonable when he said (paraphrased) that Bush is a great player in college, but that doesn't mean anything, he has to come to the NFL and do the same thing to get respect.

On a side note, is there anyone here that can call Pete Carrol and ask him to give give Bush slightly more carries this game so we can see how he does against a physical defense? I'm sure we could all use a little more scouting of the guy.

dat_boy_yec
01-02-2006, 12:41 PM
I get your point, but it's hilarious imagining PBuch trying to cover ANYONE

Not so, if he covered Bradford. He would look halfway decent.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 12:55 PM
Once upon a time, there was a RB drafted with the following attributes:

Height: 5-8
Weight: 200 lbs
Also won the Heisman
Many claimed this guy couldnt hold up in the NFL. Couldnt run in between the tackles, was to small, would get killed on the field.

All he did was:
Rushing - 3,062 Carries for 15,269 Yards and 99 Touchdowns
Receiving - 352 Receptions for 2,921 Yards and 10 Touchdowns
In 1997, 2,053 yards and 11 touchdowns rushing, and caught 33 passes for 305 yards and three touchdown.

Who was this little guy that couldnt do it?

Now I'm not comparing the two, but its has been done before and this guy even earned his way into the HOF.

run-david-run
01-02-2006, 01:51 PM
Once upon a time, there was a RB drafted with the following attributes:

Height: 5-8
Weight: 200 lbs
Also won the Heisman
Many claimed this guy couldnt hold up in the NFL. Couldnt run in between the tackles, was to small, would get killed on the field.

All he did was:
Rushing - 3,062 Carries for 15,269 Yards and 99 Touchdowns
Receiving - 352 Receptions for 2,921 Yards and 10 Touchdowns
In 1997, 2,053 yards and 11 touchdowns rushing, and caught 33 passes for 305 yards and three touchdown.

Who was this little guy that couldnt do it?

Now I'm not comparing the two, but its has been done before and this guy even earned his way into the HOF.
WHo is Terrel Davis???

PapaL
01-02-2006, 01:52 PM
WHo is Terrel Davis???

Close but I would have added Campbells Chunky soup, lol.

dirty steve
01-02-2006, 02:15 PM
sounds like barry sanders to me.

terrell davis didn't win the heisman did he? anyway, he was drafted in the 6th round of the 1995 draft. i doubt anybody was expecting him to become the savior of the Denver franchise, the way alot of you are expecting bush to be in Houston.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 02:18 PM
sounds like barry sanders to me.

terrell davis didn't win the heisman did he? anyway, he was drafted in the 6th round of the 1995 draft. i doubt anybody was expecting him to become the savior of the Denver franchise, the way alot of you are expecting bush to be in Houston.

No he didn't.

vtech9
01-02-2006, 02:18 PM
Once upon a time, there was a RB drafted with the following attributes:

Height: 5-8
Weight: 200 lbs
Also won the Heisman
Many claimed this guy couldnt hold up in the NFL. Couldnt run in between the tackles, was to small, would get killed on the field.

All he did was:
Rushing - 3,062 Carries for 15,269 Yards and 99 Touchdowns
Receiving - 352 Receptions for 2,921 Yards and 10 Touchdowns
In 1997, 2,053 yards and 11 touchdowns rushing, and caught 33 passes for 305 yards and three touchdown.

Who was this little guy that couldnt do it?

Now I'm not comparing the two, but its has been done before and this guy even earned his way into the HOF.
I'll give you a hint....he was one of the best RB's in NFL history, but still wasn't enough to make his team good.

Hottoddie
01-02-2006, 02:45 PM
BARRY SANDERS

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=187

tulexan
01-02-2006, 03:06 PM
Well, in the last 3 years that number would be "0". Most of the better ones have averaged between 20- (just under) 25 carries per game over the last 3 years.

Upon further research, only 2 RB's, since 1932, (when the NFL started keeping stats) have averaged over 25 carries per game.

Eric Dickerson (1986) 25.25 att/gm
Jamal Anderson (1998) 25.625 att/gm


So if 2 running backs since 1932 have averaged over 25 carries per game, then why are people criticizing Reggie Bush because he can't carry the ball 25-30 times per game?

And I believe that Reggie Bush will wear #21, just like LaDainian Tomlinson.

PapaL
01-02-2006, 03:11 PM
So if 2 running backs since 1932 have averaged over 25 carries per game, then why are people criticizing Reggie Bush because he can't carry the ball 25-30 times per game?

And I believe that Reggie Bush will wear #21, just like LaDainian Tomlinson.

Because they make up some obscure number that is suppose to prove that player X is better then player Y. When you debunk that then they come up with he is to small, and will get hurt. When you point to similiar sized and smaller players, they then say your guy NEVER runs up the middle.

#21 in the backfield sounds real nice.

MorKnolle
01-02-2006, 03:17 PM
FYI 5-8, 205 lbs. is much more stout and solid than 6-0, 200 lbs. It means he is four inches shorter yet heavier so he's built much more solid, plus a 5-8 RB is a lot harder to get a solid hit on than a 6-0 RB. Just thought I'd point that out.

Hottoddie
01-02-2006, 03:17 PM
So if 2 running backs since 1932 have averaged over 25 carries per game, then why are people criticizing Reggie Bush because he can't carry the ball 25-30 times per game?

And I believe that Reggie Bush will wear #21, just like LaDainian Tomlinson.

It might be because one would expect the #1 overall pick to not be platooned at his position. The 25 att/game is a rounded up bench mark number. The really good backs consistently carry the ball 20-25 times per game & will on occasion, carry 30+ times a game. I'm assuming that his weight has something to do with them questioning his durability when a 240-250lb. physical specimen of a linebacker repeatedly hits him at full speed. Not to mention the 300-350lb. behemoths on the DL.

tulexan
01-02-2006, 03:56 PM
So lets go over some of the arguments

Reggie is too small
Tiki Barber is one of the best running backs in the league and is virtually the same height and weight. Clinton Portis is currently only 12 pounds heavier, and by the time the season starts, will probably be only 5 or 7 pounds heavier. He is 4th in the league in rushing.

Reggie hasn't played against tough competition
LT played for TCU and played against such juggernauts like Tulsa, SMU, and UTEP. Marshall Faulk played for San Diego State. Eric Dickerson went to SMU. Walter Payton went to Jackson State.

Reggie can't carry the ball 25-30 times per game
This has already been covered because only 3 players have ever carried the ball over 400 times in a season which averages to 25 carries per game.

Reggie can't run between the tackles
Only a few USC games have been televised nationally, so most of the Reggie video people have seen are highlights on Sportscenter and other shows. Just because they don't show him running up the middle doesn't mean that he never does. I know for a fact that I have seen him run up the middle several times and have a lot of success. One of his best runs up the middle was against Notre Dame where he hurdled over a defender en route to a 30 yard touchdown run.

Reggie is only successful because he has holes to run through
All running backs have holes to run through. Some players like Jerome Bettis perfer to run through people rather than by them, but almost all every down backs run through holes. The argument that some make is that Domanick Davis never has holes to run through and Reggie Bush has gigantic holes. Then the argument switched to Domanick has much smaller holes to run through compared to Reggie. Well because Reggie is much faster and more elusive than Domanick, he would be even more effective in the smaller holes because he will hit them before they close or are in the process of closing.

Reggie is going to be a bust because of Ki-Jana Carter and Desmond Howard
Apparently players like Ki-Jana Carter, Desmond Howard, Tim Couch, and Ron Dayne have a direct effect on Reggie Bush's career. Because they were busts, that means that Reggie will be one too. These people fail to recognize the talents of players like Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Marcus Allen, OJ Simpson, Franco Harris, and many other #1 or high draft picks that turned out to be very successful and eventually hall of fame memberes.

BradK10
01-02-2006, 04:11 PM
Reggie Bush is very good, and can do exciting things with a football.

But he's not even the best running back at USC...that honor would go to Lendale White :)

okay okay, so that's a strech, but before the season started, there were a LOT of people who felt that way, he's just not as flashy.

tulexan
01-02-2006, 04:15 PM
Yeah and a lot of people at the beginning of the season thought that Matt Leinart was the best player on the team. A lot of people also thought that Florida would be unstoppable and that Chris Leak would shatter all passing Florida passing records because of the Urban Meyer offense. But during the season, we found out that Reggie was in fact better than LenDale, Matt Leinart is not the best player on the team, and that Florida is not unstoppable.

A year makes a big difference.

BradK10
01-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Well, to be totally honest....I don't think Reggie is that much far and away better than White. Had a chance to see both in person this year vs. ASU, and they are both special talents.

bigtex77
01-03-2006, 02:16 AM
Well, in the last 3 years that number would be "0". Most of the better ones have averaged between 20- (just under) 25 carries per game over the last 3 years.

Upon further research, only 2 RB's, since 1932, (when the NFL started keeping stats) have averaged over 25 carries per game.

Eric Dickerson (1986) 25.25 att/gm
Jamal Anderson (1998) 25.625 att/gm
Sorry, I was just throwing out a number, didn't check any stats.:penalty:

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:15 AM
Let's assume he comes out. I've seen him, he's fabulous. What I don't know is whether he can carry an NFL team the way Earl Campbell did. How about some of you guys who know this stuff backwards and forwards talk about that. My worry is injury, Bush just looks like a guy who might get injured. Earl did all the injuring, the way I remember it.

I saw Lawrence Phillips. He was fabulous. So was Curtis Enis and Archie Griffin. The only way ANYBODY will be another Earl Campbell is if you get an offensive line to block for him. The most likely scenario if the Texans draft Bush is that he won't do much due to a lack of blocking and will end up getting hurt.