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bigtex77
01-01-2006, 08:44 PM
Why do most people think we cannot pick Reggie Bush and still continue to fill holes in other ways? Even the play-by-play and color guy on the broadcast of the game said that we should trade down for more picks. People act like we only get one pick in the draft and are banned from signing free-agents just we are picking #1 overall. Am I the only person who feels like this?

BattleRedGuy
01-01-2006, 08:48 PM
Agreed. We have four of the first 66 picks and all of these guys should be able to step in from day one.

Grid
01-01-2006, 08:52 PM
in only the most extremely rare cases do all of a teams first day draft picks become full time contributors to the team... especially in their first season. So dont expect 4 quality starters from our first 4 picks.

and yes.. we CAN take Bush (and probably will) and still fill roles in other ways.. the reason that people say we should trade down is because this #1 pick is gonna be worth ALOT this year.. and RB isnt our greatest need. Getting more picks would allow us to get quite a few players on the first day.. and give us a much better chance of getting 3 or 4 starters that can come in and make immediate contributions to the team.

also.. one of our biggest needs.. OT.. is near impossible to fill through FA.. and its pretty much a FACT that there will be NO quality offensive tackles available in FA this season.

However.. with Pitts holding down the LT position.. the only real hole we have at OT is RT..which can be filled with our 2nd round pick if we use it wisely.

Wharton
01-01-2006, 08:53 PM
Given the talent level of this team, we need the draft picks. After all, we need people at most of the line positions (both sides of the ball), linebackers, and defensive backs. Plus personally, I think we need a new QB and running back. DD is hurt all the time, Wells is an unrestricted free agent and I am not impressed with Morancy yet.

Trade Bush away and get some picks!

real
01-01-2006, 08:53 PM
exaclty...and there are so many lineman this year, none having a great advantage over the other...I dont see a big drop off in talent, lineman wise, from the first to the third...

tulexan
01-01-2006, 08:56 PM
I have argued this very point many times.

To me this sounds more like attempted rationalization for not wanting to pick Bush than logic.

We have 1, 33, 65, and 66.

We can get three quality players in addition to Reggie or we can trade 65 and 66 for a pick in the second round and get another very good player in addition to our first two pics.

houstonhurricane
01-01-2006, 08:58 PM
1st - Bush

2nd - OL

3rd - TE/LB

4th - OL

Grid
01-01-2006, 09:02 PM
its gonna suck if Casserly is our GM.

He will make the obvious choice and take Bush.. but then he will use our second rounder on a kick returner from Ontario University.. and trade our two thirds to move up and take a QB from Kenya. I swear the guy just cant make the obvious choice.. he has to try and "prove his intelligence" by taking some unknown.

I think he lives for the chance to pound his chest and say how insightful he was to take someone that other people werent considering.

TexansFanatic
01-01-2006, 09:04 PM
Or maybe even this:

1st overall: Reggie Bush

33rd overall: Offensive Lineman

65th overall: Offensive Lineman

66th overall: Offensive Lineman

TexansFanatic
01-01-2006, 09:05 PM
its gonna suck if Casserly is our GM.

He will make the obvious choice and take Bush.. but then he will use our second rounder on a kick returner from Ontario University.. and trade our two thirds to move up and take a QB from Kenya. I swear the guy just cant make the obvious choice.. he has to try and "prove his intelligence" by taking some unknown.

I think he lives for the chance to pound his chest and say how insightful he was to take someone that other people werent considering.

I agree with this take. Well said.

At least we will be left with a core of the OBVIOUS talent after Charley is canned.....

Snapple
01-01-2006, 09:17 PM
The problem I have with this is that people seem to think that good O-linemen are easy to come by, when they're not. A first round O-lineman is probably going to be a lot more successful than one in the second or third or fourth round.

Like, oh if we take Bush, we can just use the rest of our picks on O-linemen and then presto! We'll be just like Denver or Kansas City! It's not that simple. Guys like Orlando Pace are well worth their draft price for getting a pro bowl type lineman for the next 10+ years.

tulexan
01-01-2006, 09:20 PM
The problem I have with this is that people seem to think that good O-linemen are easy to come by, when they're not. A first round O-lineman is probably going to be a lot more successful than one in the second or third or fourth round.

Like, oh if we take Bush, we can just use the rest of our picks on O-linemen and then presto! We'll be just like Denver or Kansas City! It's not that simple. Guys like Orlando Pace are well worth their draft price for getting a pro bowl type lineman for the next 10+ years.


What is the difference between the 32nd and 33rd pick? Absolutely nothing. Max Jean Gilles or Jonathan Scott is not going to be a better player because he was picked last in the first round rather than first in the second round.

I would agree with you if there was a Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden type talent in the draft, but there isn't. There isn't even a Robert Gallery type talent.

real
01-01-2006, 09:21 PM
since orlando pace isn't coming out this year.....DRAFT BUSH

Grid
01-01-2006, 09:23 PM
that is actually not quite true Snapple.

Left Tackles are usually 1st round picks.

Everyone other position on the oline is 2nd or later.. and alot of the time.. its ALOT later than the second round. a whole BUNCH of starting Olinemen in the league are second day draft picks.. some are even undrafted free agents.

To get a stud LT.. you will usually need to use your 1st round pick.. but quality guards, centers, and right tackles can be had everywhere else.

real
01-01-2006, 09:34 PM
Look at the colts O-line...

zeplin
01-01-2006, 09:34 PM
Trade down pick Dbrick and 3 other quality players. Reggie is not going to fix whats broken in Houston. Exciting yes he would be that. I want to be competitive more than I want Reggie show me the money Bush..:homer:

real
01-01-2006, 09:36 PM
D'Brick isn't going to do any more fixin than reggie my friend...wait i mean he isn't going to do any more fixin than the rest of the tackles taken in the first three rounds...

Dime
01-01-2006, 09:38 PM
Help... I dont understand why we have pick 65 and 66

The trade with the saints.. right?

El Tejano
01-01-2006, 10:27 PM
All that is good but we don't have playmakers bottom line. By play maker I mean it is 3rd and 7 in the 4th quarter and this guy makes the run or catch that allows us to take a kneel and run out the clock.

HoustonFrog
01-01-2006, 10:32 PM
Why do most people think we cannot pick Reggie Bush and still continue to fill holes in other ways? Even the play-by-play and color guy on the broadcast of the game said that we should trade down for more picks. People act like we only get one pick in the draft and are banned from signing free-agents just we are picking #1 overall. Am I the only person who feels like this?


No, I've been saying this all along. The problem is that the fans only look at 1st round picks because Casserly has missed much more than hit after round one. The Texans have 4 high picks and can still do alot WITH Bush.

HJam72
01-01-2006, 10:34 PM
All that is good but we don't have playmakers bottom line. By play maker I mean it is 3rd and 7 in the 4th quarter and this guy makes the run or catch that allows us to take a kneel and run out the clock.

That's because there's 2 DLs and a LB in the backfield.

Wharton
01-01-2006, 10:35 PM
D'Brick isn't going to do any more fixin than reggie my friend...wait i mean he isn't going to do any more fixin than the rest of the tackles taken in the first three rounds...

Your right, D'Brick alone wont do any more fixin than reggie, but D'Brick and the additional picks we get when we trade the first pick will do alot more fixin then reggie ever could.

tulexan
01-01-2006, 10:38 PM
Your right, D'Brick alone wont do any more fixin than reggie, but D'Brick and the additional picks we get when we trade the first pick will do alot more fixin then reggie ever could.

But Reggie along with the rest of the people that we draft will do a lot more fixin than D'Brick ever could

HoustonFrog
01-01-2006, 10:41 PM
Your right, D'Brick alone wont do any more fixin than reggie, but D'Brick and the additional picks we get when we trade the first pick will do alot more fixin then reggie ever could.

You don't need to take an O-lineman in Rd 1 if you have a good GM. Out of all of the playoff teams you can find first round O-lineman on probably one hand. The Patriots have 1 second rounder and the rest are lower, free agents or waiver wire pickups. As I said in another post, a majority of every team in history to make the SB had a franchise back and QB. The Texans have neither IMHO.

SESupergenius
01-01-2006, 11:01 PM
that'll be the 5th year in a row that we havn't selected an OL in the 1st round, a position that is considered on of the most important. My greatest concern is not that Bush is any good, is that we will be paying this guy big money and we've already done that with Carr and Johnson, plus we've given big contracts to a couple of FA, all this is going to bite us one day and put us in a cap bind down the road. More than likely after Casserly has left. If we trade down we get extra picks that would help make up the loss for the picks we wasted on getting Buchanon. We essentially get 2 good players for selling the rights of Bush. This team has more needs that just a single Bush pick can cure, trading down and getting extra picks will help with that....oh wait...maybe not, Casserly is still in charge of personnel....nevermind, he'll pi ss them away.

HJam72
01-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Let's trade Casserly for more picks. :)

bigtex77
01-01-2006, 11:57 PM
Let me clarify that I am assuming we pick Reggie Bush, I didn't start this thread with the thought of a "can't miss" trade proposal from another team being considered. If we were to get a ridiculous talent or an ungodly amount of picks or both :drool: I would be fine with that! Damn, I wish we had Herschel Walker to trade to the Vikes!

BWPaint
01-02-2006, 12:10 AM
the fact of the matter is that, in the first 3 years of the team's existence and drafts....the OL drafts have been the slimmest in recent history..

this year is different...this is the best OL draft in several years...

we can pick up an OL or two in later rounds...remember, being 1st pick is similar to having 2 number 1s

You can not pass on Bush....that would simply be *****ic...he has a much better chance of being successful (ratio wise) than any other position.....Drafts are like going to Vegas....don't play the slots

Bush, OL, CB, OL, LB

just my 2sense

TexanBacker93
01-02-2006, 12:54 AM
In my opinion, if you are picking 1st overall and a player with the talent of Reggie Bush comes along you take him. Two good players don't equal one phenomenal player. He may never match the hype, but you can't be the team that passed on a guy like that. Trading down doesn't guarantee anything more than more chances for Casserly to make the wrong pick. Championship teams aren't only made from 1st round picks. It's what a team does with rounds 2-7 that makes them. I agree that Bush isn't the most glaring need, but a gamebreaker in the backfield makes the passing game open up (provided Pendry isn't calling plays).

bigtex77
01-02-2006, 02:28 AM
Wrong picks? Casserly? When? :rolleyes:

bubbajaxonbrown
01-02-2006, 02:32 AM
its gonna suck if Casserly is our GM.

He will make the obvious choice and take Bush.. but then he will use our second rounder on a kick returner from Ontario University.. and trade our two thirds to move up and take a QB from Kenya. I swear the guy just cant make the obvious choice.. he has to try and "prove his intelligence" by taking some unknown.

I think he lives for the chance to pound his chest and say how insightful he was to take someone that other people werent considering.


Grid,

I have never agreed with another post more in my life. He'll probably try to convince the new coach our O-line is fine with the personel we have and not draft an O-lineman until the 2nd day. We should see if we can trade CC for Matt Millen. That's probably a wash.

Wharton
01-02-2006, 08:37 AM
You don't need to take an O-lineman in Rd 1 if you have a good GM. Out of all of the playoff teams you can find first round O-lineman on probably one hand. The Patriots have 1 second rounder and the rest are lower, free agents or waiver wire pickups. As I said in another post, a majority of every team in history to make the SB had a franchise back and QB. The Texans have neither IMHO.

I agree 100%.

Do you thing Charlie is a good GM?

I don't!

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 08:43 AM
I agree 100%.

Do you thing Charlie is a good GM?

I don't!

No, he is not good, thus the problem with picking up guys if you trade the pick. That is the problem I don't think alot of people see. The O-lineman can be picked up elsewhere if you have a smart GM. Charlie is not that person.

CanadianSaint
01-02-2006, 08:45 AM
Too bad you can't draft a GM... I face a similar plight w/"uncle Tom-Looter-Benson"....:rolleyes:

chuckm
01-02-2006, 09:00 AM
No, he is not good, thus the problem with picking up guys if you trade the pick. That is the problem I don't think alot of people see. The O-lineman can be picked up elsewhere if you have a smart GM. Charlie is not that person.


I know that in this time of Texan fan's pain and suffering (I'm right there with you guys), piling on Casserly is a popular position. I do not believe he's a bad GM nor do I believe he's not smart. Was the Buchanon thing stupid? Yes, now in hindsight it was.... was it universally thought of as stupid when it happened? No ... we can go down the list of his picks and point out the duds .... we can also point out more than a few diamonds .... I defy you to pick an NFL team at random and NOT find that same thing ... some good finds, some obvious busts ... it seems to me to be the nature of the beast ... one thing I can say about him is that he's not afraid to make a move ... would you feel better with Pupura as our GM? Let's give him a chance with the next head coach and hope that this new guy is not conservative-minded like Capers .... I could be way off base here but I think that keeping Casserly was the right move ....

Wharton
01-02-2006, 09:00 AM
No, he is not good, thus the problem with picking up guys if you trade the pick. That is the problem I don't think alot of people see. The O-lineman can be picked up elsewhere if you have a smart GM. Charlie is not that person.

Point made! I didn't think of that.

Time to change the Avatar to Charlie the Horrible.

CanadianSaint
01-02-2006, 09:05 AM
What do you mean Chariles not smart?

He got you guys Carr.....:rolleyes:

IF your owner was serious about winning, he'd sack em all.

HoustonFrog
01-02-2006, 09:07 AM
I know that in this time of Texan fan's pain and suffering (I'm right there with you guys), piling on Casserly is a popular position. I do not believe he's a bad GM nor do I believe he's not smart. Was the Buchanon thing stupid? Yes, now in hindsight it was.... was it universally thought of as stupid when it happened? No ... we can go down the list of his picks and point out the duds .... we can also point out more than a few diamonds .... I defy you to pick an NFL team at random and NOT find that same thing ... some good finds, some obvious busts ... it seems to me to be the nature of the beast ... one thing I can say about him is that he's not afraid to make a move ... would you feel better with Pupura as our GM? Let's give him a chance with the next head coach and hope that this new guy is not conservative-minded like Capers .... I could be way off base here but I think that keeping Casserly was the right move ....

My problem though is that he is GM of a yound franchise, where you have alot of picks and chances to make moves. Buchanon wasn't researched and as an article said a month ago, the owner found out what a bad player he was from doing extra research. Research Charlie should have done. It goes deeper. Starting the franchise with Bosseli, a guy many thought would never play again was a waste. Charlie has found too few diamonds compared to guys who won't be here under a new regime.

chuckm
01-02-2006, 09:21 AM
My problem though is that he is GM of a yound franchise, where you have alot of picks and chances to make moves. Buchanon wasn't researched and as an article said a month ago, the owner found out what a bad player he was from doing extra research. Research Charlie should have done. It goes deeper. Starting the franchise with Bosseli, a guy many thought would never play again was a waste. Charlie has found too few diamonds compared to guys who won't be here under a new regime.


I completely agree on Buchanon ... however on Boselli I disagree .... unfortunately the most salient point is often forgotten about the Boselli pick ... getting Gary Walker and Seth Payne was contingent upon taking Boselli ... and many also thought he'd be back and ready to play .... so that's a non-starter ... however Buchanon (oops), Babin (jury's not completely in yet but not looking good), Charles Hill (my bad), Joppru (not Casserly's fault although passing on Witten to take him certainly looks bad now), Wand (also not looking good), ... but again, take any team and you'll find these types of picks ... IMO of course