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bulldawgtexan
12-30-2005, 09:17 PM
I can't stand the fact that some "fans" actually would want the Texans to lose Sunday. It makes me sick. If you are a true fan, you want to win. Always. Who cares about the number one pick next year? Why not just lose every game next year so we can get the first pick again in 2007? No single college player can help a team that can't beat the 49ers. I would much rather finish the season with a victory.

RTP2110
12-30-2005, 09:27 PM
I agree. People forget that it takes more than 1 player to win. Also, #1 pick or not, theres no guarantee on any college player.

houstonhurricane
12-30-2005, 09:31 PM
Can't you read the 80 other posts relating to this topic? Yes, you are a true fan and I am a pathetic bottom dwelling PSL/Season ticket holder because I want the number one pick. I don't deserve to live and/or support this stellar team. You are the all-knowing, super fan, blah, blah, blah...

RTP2110
12-30-2005, 09:35 PM
Well I can understand people wanting the Texans to lose for the benefit in the draft. I dont think those people are bad fans by any means, because they have the Texans' best interests in mind. I just know that at 3:00 Sunday when the game kicks off, theres no possible way I'll be able to root against the Texans.

houstonhurricane
12-30-2005, 09:39 PM
RTP - I love this team more than anybody. Honestly, I don't even want to watch the game because I cannot actively recruit against them. That being said, I would rather lose this absolutely meaningless game because we can either: 1) draft a super stud rb; or 2) trade the pick for the super stud rb for a few more valuable draft picks. In a year from now, a win against SF will mean nothing. However, either of those options will go a long way in curing our ills.

ATX
12-30-2005, 09:47 PM
After 15 games and 2 wins, it's hard to cheer about much other than a possible first pick. I was at the Jags game and I wanted us to win, but after that I really don't care if we win. I mean will I feel good on Monday if we're 3-13 rather than 2-14? No, but I still love the Texans and will be waiting for next season to start.

touttail
12-31-2005, 06:45 AM
RTP - I love this team more than anybody. Honestly, I don't even want to watch the game because I cannot actively recruit against them. That being said, I would rather lose this absolutely meaningless game because we can either: 1) draft a super stud rb; or 2) trade the pick for the super stud rb for a few more valuable draft picks. In a year from now, a win against SF will mean nothing. However, either of those options will go a long way in curing our ills.


Good point! Meaningless win or being rewarded for a loss!
That's a no brainer, which would be better off for our team in the long run!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

Harrisment
12-31-2005, 09:08 AM
What's even more annoying is when someone creates a new thread for a topic that already has 25 other open threads and has beaten over the head countless times the last week. Some people want the team to lose Sunday to set us up for a better future, some want us to win and think those aren't true fans. We get it.

Malloy
12-31-2005, 09:28 AM
I'm just gonna lay low, watch the game and take whatever is coming, being a win or a first pick. :)

SheTexan
12-31-2005, 11:17 AM
WAY to much sarcasm TEXAN friends!! Be proud, be loud, be whatever you choose to be tomorrow! Whether you're pulling for us to win or lose is your own business. I just want to see an HONEST hard fought game! If we win, we win, lose we lose, life will go on and the Texans will not be destined to football hell for the next 20 years if we don't get R. Bush!! All of you better be hoping we get the right coach/GM rather than worrying so much about RB. JMO!! Without those two KEY factors, the draft is a bust for us anyway.

HJam72
12-31-2005, 02:29 PM
No single college player can help a team that can't beat the 49ers.

What makes you wrong about this is "Any Given Sunday." If the Pats could lose to Miami last year and then win the SB, then we can lose to San Fran. and not worry about it being as bad as that pick value is good. DD is out, Wells is out, and I think I heard that Morency is out. Our coaching staff is probably too dumb or hard-headed or whatever to do things like play Mathis and let Carr call the plays, so we could easily get lucky here and lose a game that we should win. Plus, it's on the road.

Speedy
12-31-2005, 02:48 PM
I can't stand the fact that some "fans" actually would want the Texans to lose Sunday. It makes me sick. If you are a true fan, you want to win. Always. Who cares about the number one pick next year? Why not just lose every game next year so we can get the first pick again in 2007? No single college player can help a team that can't beat the 49ers. I would much rather finish the season with a victory.You think it's bad now, watch what happens if we come out of the gate 0-2 next year. I'm not going to tell somebody whether they're a fan or not, because everybody's different, but wanting your team to lose for a freaking draft pick is just pathetic in my book. And maybe this last game is a little different. I'm mean I'm in a if they win that's great, if they lose thank God the season's over mode. But some of these people have been eyeing the #1 since week 8 or earlier. I've got it, let's tank next year as well and then we can have Bush AND Vince. Wait, if we tank in '07 as well, we can have Vince, Reggie and whoever..........

Sorry, that's a loser mentallity as far as I'm concerned. I don't care for losing.

HJam72
12-31-2005, 02:57 PM
Betcha liked having Olajuwon, though, didn't ya? :)

Speedy
12-31-2005, 03:33 PM
Betcha liked having Olajuwon, though, didn't ya? :)Wherever you fall in the draft is where you fall. I don't root for my team to lose to get a freaking draft POSITION. I like having AJ and Dunta too. Guess what, I don't remember anyone wanting to lose to get those guys. But you go ahead and keep rooting for losing. Like I said, I don't subscribe to that mentallity.

tulexan
12-31-2005, 03:54 PM
I think that this season has special circumstances.

1) If this was last year or the year before, then I would say that winning every game that is possible would be the best scenario. After all, we were still in "expansion team mode" and every win was valuable because they were confidence boosters and helped the team gain credibility. But we are no longer just an expansion team. This is our 4th season and now we are a regular team like everyone else in the league. Improving our record each year was the goal of our first 3 years as an expansion team, but now our goal is to make the playoffs and we failed miserably. Getting 3 wins rather than 2 might have been something of importance to us 2 and 3 years ago, but now it is just a terrible season and makes no difference.

2) The whole going out on a win and getting momentum idea is not applicable for us because we are going through a regime change starting Monday. As of Tuesday, our team will be a clean slate. We will be searching for a new coach, new coordinators, and possibly a new GM. We will have a lot of roster changes and will be getting rid of a bunch of the players who are holding us back.

3) This is a special draft. If you like Basketball, this is a LeBron James or Michael Jordan draft. If you like Hockey, this is a Mario Lemieux or Sidney Crosby draft. If you like Baseball, this is an Alex Rodriguez draft. Drafts are all based on potential, and Reggie Bush has the potential to be one of the better backs in NFL history. I'm not saying that he is going to be one of the greatest, but he has the potential to be, you draft on potential since nothing is guaranteed, and no one else at their respective position is being touted at the same level.

Ryan
12-31-2005, 04:04 PM
i agree

A Texan
12-31-2005, 04:06 PM
RTP - I love this team more than anybody. Honestly, I don't even want to watch the game because I cannot actively recruit against them. That being said, I would rather lose this absolutely meaningless game because we can either: 1) draft a super stud rb; or 2) trade the pick for the super stud rb for a few more valuable draft picks. In a year from now, a win against SF will mean nothing. However, either of those options will go a long way in curing our ills.

This is NOT a meaningless game. This is a very important one. Last year the Texans seemed to have a lot of momentum going into the last game of the season, then were blasted by lowly Cleveland and of course had no opportunity to redeem themselves the next week. The result was the slide you see them in now. The Texans need to go out and win this game if possible to help their self esteem as a team going into the off season. Also ask yourselves how much the 1st pick helped the 49ers this year.

tulexan
12-31-2005, 04:12 PM
How about we ask how much the first pick helped the Colts when they had it 8 or 9 years ago?

TexansFanatic
12-31-2005, 04:14 PM
This argument is ridiculous. I'm just going to come out and say it:
If you are a Texans fan and you are not rooting for them to get the # 1 pick in the draft, then you are a moron. Case closed.

A Texan
12-31-2005, 04:18 PM
This argument is ridiculous. I'm just going to come out and say it:
If you are a Texans fan and you are not rooting for them to get the # 1 pick in the draft, then you are a moron. Case closed.
Case not closed. You're not really a Texans fan.

TexansFanatic
12-31-2005, 04:22 PM
Case not closed. You're not really a Texans fan.

Think again, Sparky. I was simply endowed with more brain power than you and I can think this thing all the way through....

Sound it out with me:

LOSE MEANINGLESS GAME, GET MUCH BETTER NEXT YEAR.....

There, that wasn't so difficult now was it?

ATX_Texan
12-31-2005, 04:26 PM
Anybody that still cares enough about the Texans to still be on this message board after the horrible season we have all suffered is a "true" fan. People just have different ways of dealing with the disappointment.

Texan Asylum
12-31-2005, 05:07 PM
I think this dismal season is a blessing in disquise. If we'd won 7-8 games this season, we'd probably have the same personel in place teaching their form of football chuck full of mediocrity next year and the year after. How long would've it taken to get a championship season together. I prefer to look at the silver lining in this dark cloud of a season and get excited about the changes about to come. If Senor Bush is to be part of that then great. If not, then that's what's ment to be. Today, living in the heart of Cowgirls, Chiefs, and Donkey country, I boldly go out sporting my Texans gear without any regret for I know that it is a previlege to be on, a part, or a fan of The Houston Texans. The future will be brighter starting with a win either way tomorrow. Be it by score or by draft pick.

TEXANS RULE AND ALL OTHERS QUIVER AT OUR POSSIBILITIES!!!

houstonhurricane
12-31-2005, 05:23 PM
For the genius that is trying to argue that winning against SF is important to this team's focus for next year, please take a few minutes to evaluate your argument. Seriously, I don't care if you are rooting for or against us tomorrow. However, if you truly think a win against SF will build any momentum for next year, you are simply mistaken. We will have a new coaching staff, possibly a new GM and several new players. This game will have zero impact on anything that could/will occur next season.

And for the last time, just because some folks think it is better for the long-term goals of this organization to lose tomorrow doesn't make us bad fans...just very smart ones.

TexansTrueFan
12-31-2005, 05:27 PM
No single college player can help a team that can't beat the 49ers. I would much rather finish the season with a victory.


Very well put :yahoo:

TexansTrueFan
12-31-2005, 05:28 PM
For the genius that is trying to argue that winning against SF is important to this team's focus for next year, please take a few minutes to evaluate your argument. Seriously, I don't care if you are rooting for or against us tomorrow. However, if you truly think a win against SF will build any momentum for next year, you are simply mistaken. We will have a new coaching staff, possibly a new GM and several new players. This game will have zero impact on anything that could/will occur next season.

And for the last time, just because some folks think it is better for the long-term goals of this organization to lose tomorrow doesn't make us bad fans...just very smart ones.


u like pete rose ???

GP
12-31-2005, 05:55 PM
And one more win this season proves what?

It proves nothing. It has no value. It drops us to potentially a 4 or 5 pick and then we're stuck watching Bush, Hawk, etc., go off the board....and you DO NOT want this bunch of draft personnel with the Texans having to sort out what to take at the 5 spot.

No matter how you try to spin it...the 2005 season was over during the last week of the 2004 season.

One more win doesn't gain us anything.

One more loss gains us the leverage and/or luxury in the draft that we need. In short, there's more to be won for losing than winning right now.

Think strategically: Think with a L-o-n-g T-e-r-m mentality.

gg no re
12-31-2005, 06:03 PM
Anybody that still cares enough about the Texans to still be on this message board after the horrible season we have all suffered is a "true" fan. People just have different ways of dealing with the disappointment.Quoted for emphasis.

ATX
12-31-2005, 06:25 PM
Think about it this way. Would you rather have the 1, 33, 65, 66-69(from Saints), 96, 129, etc. picks or say 5, 37, 65-68(from Saints)69, 132 picks? It's alot more than just the first round pick, it's the first pick in every round and that can make alot of difference later on in the draft.

HJam72
12-31-2005, 08:08 PM
OK guys, kiss and make up. :)

WiiBrawler
12-31-2005, 08:10 PM
You know whats really irratatating, everybody wants us to lose for Reggie Friggin Bush, he hasn't even said if he is leaving yet, remember the Cleveland loss last year? Now look at us, One loss said it all, and a win do the samething! Long term huh, well think about last year's loss, then say long T-e-r-m

HJam72
12-31-2005, 08:18 PM
You know whats really irratatating, everybody wants us to lose for Reggie Friggin Bush, he hasn't even said if he is leaving yet, remember the Cleveland loss last year? Now look at us, One loss said it all, and a win do the samething! Long term huh, well think about last year's loss, then say long T-e-r-m

2 different games, 2 different years, 2 completely different situations. That was to go .500. This is to go .1875 instead of .125 or to get the #1 Pick. We already know the coaching staff is gone and a lot of things are going to change. We really have no reason to think that there is a mode of continuation and, frankly, I want Casserly to look as horrible as possible because, if there's any chance at all, I WANT HIM FIRED TOO!

HJam72
12-31-2005, 08:26 PM
Anybody know who's gonna be the #1 pick next year? I need to know if I should root against the Texans next year or not. :neener:

gg no re
12-31-2005, 08:33 PM
I hear Jesus wants to school some people in football. His age is a concern among scouts, though.

dat_boy_yec
12-31-2005, 11:01 PM
I think this should be clarified. 1st pick in the draft does not mean Reggie Bush We don't even know if he'll come out this yr. All it is, is an opportunity to upgrade, if you think that is bad then something is wrong with you. Hoping the team looses does not, repeat does not mean you want the team to tank it is one thing to hope for something, completely another to root for a loss. A true fan is the one who will be back rooting for the Texans regardless of what happens this weekend or offseason If they win, great. If they loose, great. Will I be happy to root for the Texans next year? Hell the **** yeah!!!!! What about you?? That's what defines a true fan. GO TEXANS!!!!!!

tulexan
12-31-2005, 11:03 PM
Reggie may not have declared yet but he is coming out. His family has said so.

Grid
12-31-2005, 11:22 PM
hmm... apparently there are morons on both sides of the fence here.. so for the 100th time..lets go over this "arguement".

1. If you are a "true fan" of the houston texans.... what an annoying comment. I hope we lose personally, there is no benefit to our winning.. and having hte #1 pick in the draft would be more "profitable" for us than being 3-13. I dont want use to throw the game..but i hope we lose it. Anyone who claims im not a "true fan" because of that.. is a dip****.

2. Whether you want Reggie Bush or not.. having the #1 pick is better than not having it. Someone made the rather stupid and sarcastic comment that we should lose all our games next year and get another #1 pick... i guess they forgot that we are already through with 15 games and have only won two of them. there is a big difference between wanting the #1 pick after losing 13 games.. and wanting the #1 pick before the season starts.

3. Let me expound a bit on the "whether you want Bush or not" comment. Having the #1 pick in a draft where Lienart and Bush will both be available.. is pretty nice. THat pick is gonna be worth ALOT to ALOT of teams... whether we opt to take Bush or not.. having that pick will give us alot of leverage if we want to trade down. Either way.. having the #1 pick also gives us the pick of the litter in the draft.. and gives us the #33 pick, so we can grab whoever slides out of the first round. Having the #1 pick is very nice if you use it correctly. We gain absolutely positively freakin nothing by winning our last game. Anyone who says "it improves moral" is kidding themselves. 3-13 isnt gonna make anyone proud.


blah blah blah blah blah.. im tired of writing this. How many times must we go over it? how many more chest beating jackasses are out there? who else wants to step up and say how they are a true fan because THEY want to beat san francisco? Someone stop the insanity.

Carr Bombed
12-31-2005, 11:38 PM
hmm... apparently there are morons on both sides of the fence here.. so for the 100th time..lets go over this "arguement".

1. If you are a "true fan" of the houston texans.... what an annoying comment. I hope we lose personally, there is no benefit to our winning.. and having hte #1 pick in the draft would be more "profitable" for us than being 3-13. I dont want use to throw the game..but i hope we lose it. Anyone who claims im not a "true fan" because of that.. is a dip****.

2. Whether you want Reggie Bush or not.. having the #1 pick is better than not having it. Someone made the rather stupid and sarcastic comment that we should lose all our games next year and get another #1 pick... i guess they forgot that we are already through with 15 games and have only won two of them. there is a big difference between wanting the #1 pick after losing 13 games.. and wanting the #1 pick before the season starts.

3. Let me expound a bit on the "whether you want Bush or not" comment. Having the #1 pick in a draft where Lienart and Bush will both be available.. is pretty nice. THat pick is gonna be worth ALOT to ALOT of teams... whether we opt to take Bush or not.. having that pick will give us alot of leverage if we want to trade down. Either way.. having the #1 pick also gives us the pick of the litter in the draft.. and gives us the #33 pick, so we can grab whoever slides out of the first round. Having the #1 pick is very nice if you use it correctly. We gain absolutely positively freakin nothing by winning our last game. Anyone who says "it improves moral" is kidding themselves. 3-13 isnt gonna make anyone proud.


blah blah blah blah blah.. im tired of writing this. How many times must we go over it? how many more chest beating jackasses are out there? who else wants to step up and say how they are a true fan because THEY want to beat san francisco? Someone stop the insanity. Thank you, you have saved me about 20 min. of typing a rant. I've already gone over this in another thread and I'm sick and tired of people saying if you want to lose your not a fan, it is probably the most annoying part of being 2-13. People who want to lose aren't being unloyal to their team they're being realistic. It doesn't matter if your either in the draft bush camp or trade down camp, you want to lose this game.

bigfan77801
01-01-2006, 01:17 AM
hmm... apparently there are morons on both sides of the fence here.. so for the 100th time..lets go over this "arguement".

1. If you are a "true fan" of the houston texans.... what an annoying comment. I hope we lose personally, there is no benefit to our winning.. and having hte #1 pick in the draft would be more "profitable" for us than being 3-13. I dont want use to throw the game..but i hope we lose it. Anyone who claims im not a "true fan" because of that.. is a dip****.

2. Whether you want Reggie Bush or not.. having the #1 pick is better than not having it. Someone made the rather stupid and sarcastic comment that we should lose all our games next year and get another #1 pick... i guess they forgot that we are already through with 15 games and have only won two of them. there is a big difference between wanting the #1 pick after losing 13 games.. and wanting the #1 pick before the season starts.

3. Let me expound a bit on the "whether you want Bush or not" comment. Having the #1 pick in a draft where Lienart and Bush will both be available.. is pretty nice. THat pick is gonna be worth ALOT to ALOT of teams... whether we opt to take Bush or not.. having that pick will give us alot of leverage if we want to trade down. Either way.. having the #1 pick also gives us the pick of the litter in the draft.. and gives us the #33 pick, so we can grab whoever slides out of the first round. Having the #1 pick is very nice if you use it correctly. We gain absolutely positively freakin nothing by winning our last game. Anyone who says "it improves moral" is kidding themselves. 3-13 isnt gonna make anyone proud.


blah blah blah blah blah.. im tired of writing this. How many times must we go over it? how many more chest beating jackasses are out there? who else wants to step up and say how they are a true fan because THEY want to beat san francisco? Someone stop the insanity.

Of Course with our GM, we are going to trade that 1st pick for 2 5th round picks and a popcorn cart to be named later.:brickwall

Grid
01-01-2006, 02:00 AM
Casserly is on his way out.

Scooter
01-01-2006, 02:02 AM
It makes me sick. If you are a true fan, you want to win. Always.

the flaw in your statement is relegated to time. the "untrue fans" that you speak of are willing to trade 1 win now for 2 wins later. i shouldnt get sucked into the "you'd be a real fan if....", but i've had my new year's whiskey (so please dont quote me), so i'll say what other true fans have said ... let it go.

if you were a real fan, you wouldnt care how other fans acted. if you were a real fan, you'd think about what's best for the future. if you were a real fan, winning now is all that matters. if you were a real fan, blah blah blah.

we're all real fans. give it a rest.

touttail
01-01-2006, 08:02 AM
You think it's bad now, watch what happens if we come out of the gate 0-2 next year. I'm not going to tell somebody whether they're a fan or not, because everybody's different, but wanting your team to lose for a freaking draft pick is just pathetic in my book. And maybe this last game is a little different. I'm mean I'm in a if they win that's great, if they lose thank God the season's over mode. But some of these people have been eyeing the #1 since week 8 or earlier. I've got it, let's tank next year as well and then we can have Bush AND Vince. Wait, if we tank in '07 as well, we can have Vince, Reggie and whoever..........
Sorry, that's a loser mentallity as far as I'm concerned. I don't care for losing.

I hear what you are saying about folks wanting to tank since week 8. That's way too ridiculous and totally different than wanting to lose the last game of the season after being 2-13 and in the hunt for the #1 draft pick.

Bobby 119C:brickwall

touttail
01-01-2006, 08:08 AM
And let's lose them all next year and get even better with another #1 pick. MORON!!

You can't seem to get it. It's apples and oranges, losing the final game of the season sitting at 2-13, than giving up on the whole season. You are not giving up the season this year. It's been over!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

Wolf
01-01-2006, 10:47 AM
Speedy, I see you are a Rockets fan.. Just FYI...the years you enjoyed watching Olajuwon in a Rockets uniform..guess what..the Rockets are the reason their is a NBA lottery. Dare I say this....Rockets were accused of tanking games to get the rights to Olajuwon..and it worked .... oops did I use my outloud voice when I thought this ?:confused:

As far as the Texans game..I want the Texans to play fundamentally sound, I also know it does no good to win today.. What kind of momentum would a win do ? we beat a team that equally poor as us and that "momentum" doesn't get us a step closer to the Colts/Seahawks of the NFL..gets us nothing.. I personally would like to see us play Ragone/Wand and some of the people we are wondering if they are going to be here next season with the new staff. I am not a person that says we will draft Reggie Bush but the the RB hype machine if full affect, if we had the first pick, it gives us alot of leverage and possibilities.. (heck I'd like to see a Ricky Williams type trade for him) .Granted no guarantees in drafting players but with multiple picks, it should be like a mutual fund where our chances for not finding a bust goes up.

Speedy
01-01-2006, 03:30 PM
Speedy, I see you are a Rockets fan.. Just FYI...the years you enjoyed watching Olajuwon in a Rockets uniform..guess what..the Rockets are the reason their is a NBA lottery. Dare I say this....Rockets were accused of tanking games to get the rights to Olajuwon..and it worked .... oops did I use my outloud voice when I thought this ?:confused:

As far as the Texans game..I want the Texans to play fundamentally sound, I also know it does no good to win today.. What kind of momentum would a win do ? we beat a team that equally poor as us and that "momentum" doesn't get us a step closer to the Colts/Seahawks of the NFL..gets us nothing.. I personally would like to see us play Ragone/Wand and some of the people we are wondering if they are going to be here next season with the new staff. I am not a person that says we will draft Reggie Bush but the the RB hype machine if full affect, if we had the first pick, it gives us alot of leverage and possibilities.. (heck I'd like to see a Ricky Williams type trade for him) .Granted no guarantees in drafting players but with multiple picks, it should be like a mutual fund where our chances for not finding a bust goes up.That's apples and oranges as well. Football players are not going to put on the pads, bust people in the mouth for 3 hours and try and lose on purpose. Maybe the Rockets tanked, maybe they didn't. But you're not at risk of a career ending injury jacking around trying to lose a game as in football. And even if the Rockets had only been the 3rd worst team that year, I think they would have done ok.

Yes, I enjoyed watching Dream all those years. Guess what, I'm going to enjoy watching Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson for years to come as well. I don't remember anyone wanting to lose to get those guys.

Reggie Bush, Reggie Bush, Reggie Bush. You'd think he's the second coming of Jesus Christ. Seems to me, the hype machine about players has been wrong as much as it's been right. This kid could turn out to be a Joppru for all we know. For every Peyton Manning drafted #1 there's a Tim Couch. For every Michael Vick there's a Jeff George. For every Earl Campbell there's a Ki-Jana Carter.

Play to win, and end up where you end up.

BradK10
01-01-2006, 03:37 PM
my guess Speedy is also a Horns fan who's just sick of the Bush hype.

Speedy
01-01-2006, 03:53 PM
my guess Speedy is also a Horns fan who's just sick of the Bush hype.LOL....actually no, I can't stand the 'Horns and hope SC (hmmm...would that be Southern Cal or SportsCenter???) stomps a mudhole into them. But yeah, I am sick of the hype.

Honoring Earl 34
01-01-2006, 04:09 PM
:tv: OK since its not being competitive to lose ...GGRRR I slide in second in beer league softball to break up double plays GGRR. I addopt the Saints to have the #1 pick .

I pick Reggie and trade for local hero Brett Favre from Kiln Mississippi . I give up a 4th round pick . I just gave that region some much needed hope .


Meanwhile the Texans flex their muscles and beat the 49ers and pick DBrick . No trades just a pick .

afcman
01-01-2006, 05:22 PM
All of you better be hoping we get the right coach/GM rather than worrying so much about RB. JMO!!

I agree. It starts at the top. Can you say New England? They pull out "no-name" players and get the job done. Leadership.