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View Full Version : Future LT watch - Winston in the Peach Bowl


disaacks3
12-30-2005, 08:07 PM
[Early 1st Quarter]

So far, he's given up one sack (going one-on-one) with an LSU LB. Looked like he wasn't ready for the speed and his feet were in concrete.

Other than that, he's looked solid. He also appears to be calling a lot of the line responsibility "calls" for the lineman.

powda
12-30-2005, 08:38 PM
Im Not Impressed At All.

bigcarlos
12-30-2005, 08:39 PM
There has to be a big concern on his injury from before:ok:

swtbound07
12-30-2005, 08:55 PM
i said he was soft after the florida state game....now people want to listen?

run-david-run
12-30-2005, 09:03 PM
Im Not Impressed At All.
So are you in the D'Brick or Bush camp?:yahoo:
Unless he has a terrible combine, D'Brick WILL be the first LT taken, probably in the 4-8 range, depending on where we end up...

powda
12-30-2005, 09:13 PM
So are you in the D'Brick or Bush camp?:yahoo:



BRICK VS WINSTON? brick easy.

but brick isnt a #1 overall caliber pick. to many minor flaws in his game ,but great potential with an nfl training program.

his run blocking just isnt what i was hoping for and thats my biggest complaint.

disaacks3
12-30-2005, 11:05 PM
Winston just can't seem to handle the LB speed rushers, though he's looked good against the DE's tonight.

tulexan
12-30-2005, 11:23 PM
I'm sorry but after these two games today (Miami and Virginia), I don't see how we could trade down from Reggie Bush to pick up one of these guys. D'Brick has shown that he is a one dimensional LT who can only pass block and Winston hasn't looked too hot either. Like I have said repeatedly, our best first two picks would be Bush and then Jean Gilles.

awtysst
12-30-2005, 11:39 PM
I'm sorry but after these two games today (Miami and Virginia), I don't see how we could trade down from Reggie Bush to pick up one of these guys. D'Brick has shown that he is a one dimensional LT who can only pass block and Winston hasn't looked too hot either. Like I have said repeatedly, our best first two picks would be Bush and then Jean Gilles.


I had to work late and missed both games. What specifically is Dbrick's issue? Is it a technique issue that can be corrected? Is it a weight issue? Or does he simply not have that "it" factor? Same questions with Winston.

i am thinking about a mock and need some more information please!

nunusguy
12-30-2005, 11:48 PM
Winston just can't seem to handle the LB speed rushers
Uh Oh ! That doesn't sound good. Didn't see the game, but some of you guys
don't have much good to say about Winston's performance tonight.
Where's Coach, he's Winston's biggest booster on this Board ? Either Winston's outing tonight was so bad Coach has made himself unavailable to defend his boy, or he got an early start on his New Years Eve celebration.

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 11:49 PM
Ok now I have seen both games and Arlington Tex has put out his thoughts on D'brick read them they are pretty insightful. Winston I think showed exactly what people expected out of him. He makes the line calls, he is strong in the passing game and a monster in the run game, many times clearing holes. The interior of the Miami line reminds me of ours and simply could not handle Wrotten and Williams. I think these two guys pulled much closer today. They are both very solid and each has their thing. DF is a monster pass blocker, and his knocks are true, and Winston is a monster run blocker and his knocks are true. Winston does look like he is coming into form from his surgery and looks tons better than from the beginning of the year. He is also a good deal stronger than DF. It will be an interesting combine and workouts to see these guys battle.

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 11:54 PM
Uh Oh ! That doesn't sound good. Didn't see the game, but some of you guys
don't have much good to say about Winston's performance tonight.
Where's Coach, he's Winston's biggest booster on this Board ? Either Winston's outing tonight was so bad Coach has made himself unavailable to defend his boy, or he got an early start on his New Years Eve celebration.

What up nun. Yeah I got an early start, but I watched both games. I must say Winston is still my guy. He did nothing today to dissuade me. I have listed his faults and DF's faults and they pulled closer today than anything else. Right now the way it stands is a grade on Lineman the way I like them.

Pass Blocking
Run Blocking
Footwork
Strength
Football Awareness
Quickness
Nasty Demeanor
Potential

When you judge by these categories the two guys pretty much split. Neither of the guys are that heads or tails better than the other in any category other than Nasty Demeanor. Honestly right now I believe that both guys deserve the hype and the knocks about them ring true at the moment. The combine and workouts will tell alot. I am not going to come off Winston though.

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2005, 12:10 AM
It was hard watching Winston in the 2nd half because Miami did not have the ball much . I did watch some he's not bad .

I watched DBrick and he looked like he had his guy on passing downs but he is thin and he's all arms and legs .

I think their both better than Alex Barron or Jamal Brown but not as good of a prospect as Gallery (who's playing right tackle ) when he came out .

Jordan Gross was a OT selected by Carolina in 2003 with the 8th pick and played right tackle in the super bowl . I guess he can't play LT.

Coach C.
12-31-2005, 12:18 AM
I would easily say Earl you are pretty on trak with your statement. Gallery and Gross have not been able to beat out veterans and have been extremely solid at RT until they do. They can both play LT, even though Gross may be better suited to play RT.

beerlover
12-31-2005, 12:19 AM
from what I've seen today I agree with what's already been posted concerning this tackle class, I'm still not convinced even D'Brick is worth a top 5 pick, more like a 6-10 pick.

that being said no one has mentioned two very solid performances from a couple other tackles who are going to be in this draft named Andrew Whitworth (LSU) & Davin Joseph (OU) both have Pitts like potential (will most likely play guard in the NFL) but also have the experience and type of frame to fill in the tackle position.

Davin is stout and massive 315 lbs and opened nice lanes for Peterson in the 2nd half of OU's win against the Ducks, had excellent footwork & moved well in space. Whitworth has excellent size 6060 330 lbs and sealed off the edge nicely against a top ranked defense in Miami (looked more agile than Winston).

I'm shifting beers, I mean gears now- Texans need to improve the run defense & pass rush 1st given the depth of the offensive line class. select the #1 playmaker to improve the Texans defense then with the 2nd/3rd picks add the beef to the OL. I've never been on the AJ Hawk bandwagon but maybe just maybe he is the type of player we need to draft 1st to imprint the Texans signature and turn this last place, bottom ranked defense around.

the defensive playmakers are thin at the top while the OL positions run deep into the latter rds :twocents:

Coach C.
12-31-2005, 12:26 AM
Whitwoth did not look more agile than Winston, but I do think he had a great game. He was beaten several times which caused Flynn to scramble, but one thing about the guy is he is huge. He looks like a RT in the pros, similar to Jamall Brown from last year. Not sure if he is as good, but he is a solid second round pick. Davin Joseph beer i have been with you on this guy since I watched some games of his. The kid is huge nasty and would lock down the LG or RG spot for us.

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2005, 12:36 AM
:tv: Well one these two guys have to be a top 10 player . My question is how much of a gap is there between the top tackle and the 4th best tackle ?

I guess my point would be ... what position has the biggest dropoff from best to mid . I 've only heard about one CB so is the next guy is a 4.7 dude .

beerlover
12-31-2005, 12:41 AM
Whitwoth did not look more agile than Winston

Winston does not have the lateral range to deal with smaller quicker speed rushers, he is great in running plays and otherwise in pass protection I just cannot grade him out as high as you or I once did, I'm sorry. I also agree Whitworth would be an upgrade over Wade but you know McNair is paying him all that money to be our franchise RT, so I doubt we draft him either.

Davin Joseph beer i have been with you on this guy since I watched some games of his. The kid is huge nasty and would lock down the LG or RG spot for us.

I agree with you 100% :thumbup

the Texans need to draft him with their 2nd pick, maybe not a sexy pick or high profile kid he is just one of those building blocks teams have that win games and championships. I like him over Max Jean-Gilles because of his athleticism and ability to play multiple positions across the line.

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2005, 12:50 AM
:tv: I'm not big on Max Jean-Gilles he looks like he's already 350 lbs and not nearly as agile as Shawn Andrews .

I'd rather have a guy 300 lbs out of college before I would a 350 lbs . They seem like they add 20 more lbs through the NFL lifestyle .

YoungTexanFan
12-31-2005, 12:51 AM
:tv: I'm not big on Max Jean-Gilles he looks like he's already 350 lbs and not nearly as agile as Shawn Andrews .

I'd rather have a guy 300 lbs out of college before I would a 350 lbs . They seem like they add 20 more lbs through the NFL lifestyle .

Jean Giles is a one dimensional guy in my opinion: run blocking. I have not seen enough to pass final judgement, but have heard he lacks motivation and is not athletic for his size.

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2005, 12:59 AM
:tv: I watched Gilles and if gets a hold of you your toast but he is slow .

texan279
12-31-2005, 01:00 AM
From what I saw of Winston in the first half, he was solid, he did open up a hole that allowed the RB to break off a 50 yard run to the left, other than that he held his own against the DE, nothing special or spectacular though from what I saw but I didn't watch any of the 2nd half.

nunusguy
12-31-2005, 01:13 AM
If we screw up and win Sunday and don't get the top pick, but end up with
3,4, or 5 what are we gonna do with that pick if there's not a LT worthy of
a top 5 Draft choice. Lot of people like AJ Hawk, but most agree that an
inside LB is rarely worth a top 5 pick. Maybe the top corner in the Draft
as our # 1 ?

texan279
12-31-2005, 01:23 AM
If we screw up and win Sunday and don't get the top pick, but end up with
3,4, or 5 what are we gonna do with that pick if there's not a LT worthy of
a top 5 Draft choice. Lot of people like AJ Hawk, but most agree that an
inside LB is rarely worth a top 5 pick. Maybe the top corner in the Draft
as our # 1 ?

If we don't draft D'Brick in the 3-5 range, I say trade down depending who is on the board at the time, this year's draft should be interesting to say the least.

Coach C.
12-31-2005, 09:43 AM
Beerlover I understand that you dont want to grade out Winston as high but he is the legitimate second LT due to the hype of Ferguson, but Winston is definately coming into form. What I am looking at is this right now Winston is blowing open holes in the run game, close to D'Brick in passing and he handles line calls. His lateral quickness looked good in picking up linebackers and stunts, except a couple of time when they overloaded his side. He picked up the most dangerous guy and the farthest guy got in and the RB missed him. That happens I mean we have DD so we know all about missed blocks. I still have a Top 15 grade on Winston and a Top 10 grade on Ferguson.

beerlover
12-31-2005, 10:15 AM
Durability is a concern. The Texans cannot afford the gamble. I could live with D'Brickashaw & hope for the best but LT is no longer the Texans top priority (last ranked defense) especially with the drafted stocked full of tackles, guards & centers. my top tackles in order are as follows:
D'Brickashaw- LT
McNeill- RT
Whitworth- RT
Ryan O'Callaghan- LT
Jonathan Scott- RT
Quinn O'Jinnaka-RT
Winston- LT


thats just the tackles, so you think Winston is the #2 tackle in the 10-15 range, thats fine its your opinion. but I could see him being available in the 2nd rd. when the Texans pick again (assuming Casserly does not trade away our 2nd rd. pick for the second year in a row :brickwall )

now if your asking me would I take Winston over Davin Joseph with the 2nd rd. pick thats another story one that I'm not prepared to answear at this point & thats high praise because you know I'm a HUGE Davin Joseph fan like you are a HUGE Winston fan :ok:

CoastalTexan
12-31-2005, 10:56 AM
Add Colledge from boise state on that list, he handled Mathias Kiwi like a pro, and kiwi is supposed to be one of the 2 top pass rushers. He seems projected to the late 1st to the beginning 2nd right now. The talking heads during his game said that he hasnt allowed a sack since his sophmore year, but he does play for boise state so there scheldule might not be that tough.

beerlover
12-31-2005, 11:07 AM
Add Colledge from boise state on that list, he handled Mathias Kiwi like a pro, and kiwi is supposed to be one of the 2 top pass rushers. He seems projected to the late 1st to the beginning 2nd right now. The talking heads during his game said that he hasnt allowed a sack since his sophmore year, but he does play for boise state so there scheldule might not be that tough.

like Davin Daryn Colledge is projected to the guard position in the NFL & like Davin plays tackle. not the spark plug Davin is but has that verstility to play tackle if needed ala Pitts :)

awtysst
12-31-2005, 11:36 AM
Durability is a concern. The Texans cannot afford the gamble. I could live with D'Brickashaw & hope for the best but LT is no longer the Texans top priority (last ranked defense) especially with the drafted stocked full of tackles, guards & centers. my top tackles in order are as follows:
D'Brickashaw- LT
McNeill- RT
Whitworth- RT
Ryan O'Callaghan- LT
Jonathan Scott- RT
Quinn O'Jinnaka-RT
Winston- LT


thats just the tackles, so you think Winston is the #2 tackle in the 10-15 range, thats fine its your opinion. but I could see him being available in the 2nd rd. when the Texans pick again (assuming Casserly does not trade away our 2nd rd. pick for the second year in a row :brickwall )

now if your asking me would I take Winston over Davin Joseph with the 2nd rd. pick thats another story one that I'm not prepared to answear at this point & thats high praise because you know I'm a HUGE Davin Joseph fan like you are a HUGE Winston fan :ok:

What if we trade down our first rounder to like 4 and pick up a high second? In that scenario we could theoretically go D(AJ Hawk, Kiwanaka, CB, or whatever D player we think desearves to be there), then pick Winston in round 2 pick 1 and Jospeh rd 2 pick 2?

Johnny Utah
12-31-2005, 11:42 AM
If we screw up and win Sunday and don't get the top pick, but end up with
3,4, or 5 what are we gonna do with that pick if there's not a LT worthy of
a top 5 Draft choice. Lot of people like AJ Hawk, but most agree that an
inside LB is rarely worth a top 5 pick. Maybe the top corner in the Draft
as our # 1 ?

Corner is a possibility if we trade down. I personally don't think that the Texans will draft a LT in the 1st round anymore with the emergence of Pitts. Very good RT and OG can be had in the beginning of round 2 because of the depth at those positions this year. If we lose out on Bush my money would be on the Texan's getting a pass rusher like Mario Williams or Kiwanuka. Players who can score touchdowns and sack the QB are hard to find.

beerlover
12-31-2005, 12:01 PM
What if we trade down our first rounder to like 4 and pick up a high second? In that scenario we could theoretically go D(AJ Hawk, Kiwanaka, CB, or whatever D player we think desearves to be there), then pick Winston in round 2 pick 1 and Jospeh rd 2 pick 2?

BUY or SELL? buy

you must have read my mind, I think this would be a prudent line of reasoning :redtowel:

nunusguy
12-31-2005, 12:02 PM
Corner is a possibility if we trade down.
That's kinda what I'm thinking, but here's the problem. See most feel that Bush and Lienert will be 1 and 2, though some think that order will be reversed but they are probably the first 2 off the Board. And even if they are worth 1 or 2, many feel that after them no one else is worthy of top 5. Therefor how can you trade down with someone sitting at 6-10 and expect them to kick in some boot ? I'm thinking that even if all the hype about the SoCal players is valid, after them there really aren't many top blue chippers out there ?

beerlover
12-31-2005, 12:52 PM
That's kinda what I'm thinking, but here's the problem. See most feel that Bush and Lienert will be 1 and 2, though some think that order will be reversed but they are probably the first 2 off the Board. And even if they are worth 1 or 2, many feel that after them no one else is worthy of top 5. Therefor how can you trade down with someone sitting at 6-10 and expect them to kick in some boot ? I'm thinking that even if all the hype about the SoCal players is valid, after them there really aren't many top blue chippers out there ?

Alot can still happen between now and the draft :)

AJ Hawk will be a franchise MLB in the NFL. several teams would be interested in him, heck the Texans may even change schemes along with coaches to adopt him into the picture :cool: so the 3rd pick would still have value and the trade down spot, if you will, that would allow the Texans to address their current shortcomings:twocents:

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2005, 01:02 PM
:redtowel: I'm not sure how many great prospects there are , I'm thinkin maybe three . On the other hand theres alot of good ones .

So .... I trade the first pick to Denver for both of their first , their second and their third . That gives me 2 first , 2 seconds , 3 thirds . I think the draft will be deep with good players and with 7 picks I could address alot of needs .

beerlover
12-31-2005, 01:09 PM
:redtowel: I'm not sure how many great prospects there are , I'm thinkin maybe three . On the other hand theres alot of good ones .

So .... I trade the first pick to Denver for both of their first , their second and their third . That gives me 2 first , 2 seconds , 3 thirds . I think the draft will be deep with good players and with 7 picks I could address alot of needs .

that is not Shanahan's style :twocents:

but I do agree more picks = more talent :)

Texas_Thrill
12-31-2005, 01:10 PM
HAWK IS AN OUTSIDE Linebacker. Though I still agree he is a franchiser.

I don't see winston falling out of the 1st round even as not so great as he's been looking. It might take a horrendous combine for that to happen. At this point I see him going mid to late but of course that will all be determined after we have a better picture from this weekend.

I'd be for picking up two seconds however and a D player. As most of you know I'm on the J Williams Bandwagon if we go D which I thinkw e could pull back as far as possibly 10 and still possibly get him though I"d prefer the 6-8 range.

CoastalTexan
12-31-2005, 01:20 PM
Colledge is a LT/RT take a look at NFLDraftCountdown.

Coach C.
12-31-2005, 01:36 PM
Beer I doubt Winston goes lower than 1st round for that matter I doubt he is lower than 20 at the lowest. Most scouts agree that Winston is the second best LT in the draft and similar to Jordan Gross in talent level with a much nastier nature. As I look at your list of top tackles I would like to hear your thoughts on each. Just to have a different perspective. I dont think Davin can play tackle in the NFL. Maybe make it at RT, but he is perfect to play G. Colledge is likely a G also. So hit back the board and let me know your thoughts on each Tackle you listed and how you got to the rankings you did.

beerlover
12-31-2005, 01:41 PM
OK guys your both right these are the positions they play in College maybe even the pros. All I'm saying is the pro scouts are indentifying them to project to different positions once drafted depending on the team in the NFL.

For instance Hawk is kinda short/small, does not cover well & will battle to shed NFL lineman as a OLB, in College thats fine, in the right system fine, but ideally not. At least from what I've seen his ability to read the play (key for a MLB) has terrific sideline to sideline speed (he ran a 4.6 something last year at OSU's Pro Day) and excellent wrap up tackler. oh yeah, as he reads the play he can still blitz the QB.

Same thing with Daryn, sure he has the skill to play tackle its just at the next level he may wind up playing guard, at least at first. Colledge is ranked as a top 10 guard and one I would not mind the Texans investing in the 3rd or 4th rd. I like the fact that he can play multiple positions & handle his buisness. In case your wondering I use ourlads.com scouting service mostly, being a a pay site I'm unable to post links, all I can say is don't take their College position's as gospel & projecting them straight across to the pro's :twocents:

beerlover
12-31-2005, 02:20 PM
So hit back the board and let me know your thoughts on each Tackle you listed and how you got to the rankings you did.

just for you, then I gotta get the New Years plans rolling in motion :party:

1. D'Brickashaw- LT should improve with good coaching has the physical tools you look for in a LT, along with excellent footwork, blah blah blah you've heard it all before but what is special about him is the upside which is believable because of his work ethic and mindset to be a complete LT. He is the only tackle, in my opinion that should even be considered a top 5 pick.

2. McNeill- RT monster proto-typical NFL RT standing 6070 330+ lbs. is athletic for his size but the speed at the NFL would cause issues playing LT. good run blocker & can seal off the edge but not for a long period unless he just pancakes the guy.

3. Whitworth- RT can play both tackle positions but not quick enough for LT in the pro's. he tends to ride his man & take care of assingments, good character, tons of high level experience so he should be ready to start immediatly and make an impact, could also play Guard.

4. Ryan O'Callaghan- LT is a true pass protector like D'Brick, a wide body good footwork and hand punch. not near as athletic as D'Brick but posts a huge physical wall making it even more difficult to get around his 6070 365 lb. frame.

5. Jonathan Scott- RT most of us here are familar with Jonathan's play at UT he has developed a more athletic style is lighter (300 lbs.) probably trying to keep up with Vince Young and all his scrambling around. since Vince is not your classic pocket QB it makes it kinda difficult to judge Scotts pass blocking, but I have no doubt he would be a fine RT in a more run oriented offense or a guard in a pro-set.

6. Quinn O'Jinnaka-RT this guy is a sleeper pick (taken from ourlads.com) think of him as a poor mans D'Brickashaw Ferguson, he played some TE & came into College in the 260 range, following the tragic death of his father his Freshman year he devoted himself to working out and getting stronger, by the time he was a junior he was the SU starting RT and hasn't missed a beat since. He is also very similar in size to D'Brick both 6050 300 lbs. He has the potential to be an outstanding NFL lineman with no history of any kind of serious injurys.

7. Winston- LT your the expert on Eric! don't get me wrong I like this kid too. the only reason he slides this far are the medical concerns- how affected is he from the reconstructive ACL? if he checks out by the team doctors then he could easily soar back up to the top of his class but so far he is just not the same 4.7-4.9 guy he was before his injury. ourlads has him ranked #7 in his class.

edo783
12-31-2005, 02:27 PM
I only got to watch a few plays, but on those I did, Winston looked to have slow foot work to me. Not a bad tackle, just seemed to be slow footed.

tulexan
12-31-2005, 02:29 PM
Aren't you forgetting Winston Justice?

beerlover
12-31-2005, 03:02 PM
Aren't you forgetting Winston Justice?

I'll wait until he officially declares his intention to enter the NFL draft :drool: