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View Full Version : John Lopez: "Real fans should hope for a loss"


Marcus
12-29-2005, 07:46 AM
I guess a debate needs to take place on what is a "real" fan.You won't be less of a fan by hoping for a loss on Sunday. You'd be more of one.
Houston Chronicle editorial (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/texans/3553470.html)

BTW, they say losing brings out the true colors. Reading Justice's and Lopez's columns this season seem to prove that out.

Texan Asylum
12-29-2005, 08:17 AM
There is no way any professional is gonna go out with the agenda to lose. No way. But you have a mix of professionalism and business...Quite the problem. The players wanna go out and give their best but on the other hand the business people want to make the best of an awful situation. Fans are split on both sides just like the players and the business folk. There is no real answer to the delema so in my opinion we flip a coin...No not really. I don't know what the best solution is. In my opinion both teams are gonna go out and play the game like it's the Superbowl with the full support of the Coaching staff and Owners. Both teams will do everything in their power to win the game and in the end one will end up with the #1 Draft pick and the other with a high level draft pick of their own. Both organizations will come off the field knowing they gave it everything they had a feel good about themselves. The fans will continue to debate the greatness or the foolishness of whatever is done but in the end the spirit of Sportmanship will win out because it's better to give it all you got even if you lose out in the end and I don't ever recall winning ever equated into losing. GO TEXANS...play it like the Superbowl and if you win GREAT and if you lose then I quess we win with dignity.

barzilla
12-29-2005, 08:18 AM
Hey, I respect people that never root for defeat and I think Lopez grossly overstated his case, but I think he legitimately wants what's best for the team. Ignoring the obvious sticking point, is there much of a difference between 2-14 and 3-13?

Texan Asylum
12-29-2005, 08:28 AM
Not much at all, but the difference in the state of mind in losing willingly is a much different story. How do you explain to you child that the game thay beat you at did not really count cause you let them win? Different situations but still equates to the same principal. WIN at all cost and if you don't aleast you know you did the best you could do. You can always get better physically
but it's much harder to improve how one feels about themselves personally.
IMO

SteelBlueToro
12-29-2005, 08:40 AM
Hey, I respect people that never root for defeat and I think Lopez grossly overstated his case, but I think he legitimately wants what's best for the team. Ignoring the obvious sticking point, is there much of a difference between 2-14 and 3-13?

There is when you consider what the first pick, or multiple picks if you get the first pick, can do for the team in the future. A better record could cost the Texans that number 1 opportunity or the posibility of trading it for multiple picks. It's clear that the coaches and a good number of the players on the current roster won't be here in 2006. Why? Look at the record and look at the talent on the team. There's a reason the Texans are 2-13.

Many are looking at the big picture and long range development. They know what could possibly happen if the Texans get the first pick. There's nothing wrong with those of us who realize what the future could be like if the Texans lose and get the first pick. Just as there's nothing wrong with those who prefer the instant gratification of a win this Sunday - which could cause the Texans to drop to number 5 on the draft list. We are all fans with different views on what's best for the team.

eriadoc
12-29-2005, 09:18 AM
I become less impressed with our "professional" journalists in this town daily.

Texan Asylum
12-29-2005, 09:22 AM
Lack of competition...what happened to The Post?

nunusguy
12-29-2005, 09:22 AM
"Remember Kato Kaelin, the freeloading, squinting witness for the prosecution in the O.J. Simpson case?
He was a real loser. But Kaelin turned his 15 minutes into a nice little nest egg and still is keeping 'em fooled. Just like Jason Babin."
************************************************** **
I hope poor ole Jason Babin doesn't see this comment. On second thought,
it might be a motivational tool like none other. The guy had an injury early
in the year that was serious enough that season ending surgery was being
considered. I dunno...I didn't know Lopez was into these kinda Cheap Shots.

Grid
12-29-2005, 09:27 AM
there is a difference between a fan rooting for a loss... and a player trying to lose.

I hope the Texans lose on Sunday. I want the #1 pick. But I dont want us to TRY and lose.

Malloy
12-29-2005, 09:28 AM
"Remember Kato Kaelin, the freeloading, squinting witness for the prosecution in the O.J. Simpson case?
He was a real loser. But Kaelin turned his 15 minutes into a nice little nest egg and still is keeping 'em fooled. Just like Jason Babin."
************************************************** **
I hope poor ole Jason Babin doesn't see this comment. On second thought,
it might be a motivational tool like none other. The guy had an injury early
in the year that was serious enough that season ending surgery was being
considered. I dunno...I didn't know Lopez was into these kinda Cheap Shots.

Lopez is full of crap. Some of the stuff he writes is not fit for printing out and whiping my .... with. He's VERY speculative, and objective journalism seems to be one of the concepts he missed when he took his online journalist course. I hope Babin sees the Lopez comment, just like I hope Lopez reads mine.

monty0252006
12-29-2005, 09:31 AM
a real fan knows what is worth debating about, this year was season long practice/scrimage for the team i love to see play, but the time for reconstructioning is at hand.:redtowel:

Doug
12-29-2005, 09:38 AM
This guy is a joke. I've seen a few of his other columns and it seems he's trying to be the Jerry Springer of print.

Texan Asylum
12-29-2005, 09:39 AM
Grid...Probably one of the sanest posts I've read on the subject. Kinda like hoping your kid beats your best game. Yea I'm weird...

MightyTExan
12-29-2005, 09:49 AM
You Don't Play To Play.


You Play To Win!

tulexan
12-29-2005, 09:53 AM
what is the difference between resting your players in a meaningless game before the playoffs and a meaningless game at the end of the season?

we are playing for home field advantage in the draft so to speak and we should do whatever it takes to get it.

Marcus
12-29-2005, 09:54 AM
I hope poor ole Jason Babin doesn't see this comment. On second thought,
it might be a motivational tool like none other. The guy had an injury early
in the year that was serious enough that season ending surgery was being
considered. I dunno...I didn't know Lopez was into these kinda Cheap Shots.

I know this is too far back for the youngins, but I still grin remembering when Pastorini beat the ***** out of Dale Robertson with Bum standing right there. Maybe someone ought to look up that tape and send it to Lopez.

texan279
12-29-2005, 09:56 AM
Lopez can stick it where the sun don't shine, didn't waste my time reading the whole article but from the bits and pieces posted looks to be the worst article ever...

OzzO
12-29-2005, 10:27 AM
So, comparisons to Kato, W. Hung, and Julia L-D..... I'm sorry, were there any bits of info in that article?

I've said it before.... pfft - Lopez. Here's your "dee-dee-dee" award for wanting to start some lame hype. Like we need his point of view to what makes a true fan.

El Tejano
12-29-2005, 10:33 AM
The way I see it is this:

Do your best to win the game. If you win you're not the sorriest team in the league and are not worthy of a #1 pick but worthy of a #2 pick that many other teams want and you don't need.

If you lose, then you get the #1 pick and that's that.

But you don't try to lose for a guy that you don't even know for sure if he is coming out and might not because he doesn't wanna play for you, or he might be a flop.

What I am saying is the only certainty you have is to try and win. Oh and this is coming from a guy that has wanted Reggie Bush ever since last year.

Buffi2
12-29-2005, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=El Tejano]The way I see it is this:

Do your best to win the game. If you win you're not the sorriest team in the league and are not worthy of a #1 pick but worthy of a #2 pick that many other teams want and you don't need.

If you lose, then you get the #1 pick and that's that.

But you don't try to lose for a guy that you don't even know for sure if he is coming out and might not because he doesn't wanna play for you, or he might be a flop.

What I am saying is the only certainty you have is to try and win. QUOTE]

:redtowel: Ditto. As far as Lopez is concerned, he is about as good at being a journalist as I would be doing open heart surgery.:rolleyes:

Almost Anybody
12-29-2005, 11:01 AM
My take is this:

If I am a current player on this roster, and I keep hearing and reading that people in my town that I play for would want a loss to possibly draft a guy who may not come out and who could very well suck, I don't want to play for them. If I'm D-Rob, and I see what this Lopez guy says, and what some of the people on the message board have written, I'm asking for a trade. Any one that could hope for a loss, I would be embarressed to represent on the field. I wouldn't be suprised if that's why he didn't appear to be giving a solid effort last week against the Jags.

:trophy: :highfive: Bravo!

Texans_Chick
12-29-2005, 11:02 AM
Lopez, on a good day is a poor writer with dumb opinions.

On a bad day, he is absolutely unreadable.

The cheap shot on Babin (a second year player who tried playing hurt for a good part of this season) is just another illustration of a tendency of the Chronic's sports writers trying to do the Skip Bayless school of journalism. You know, trying to be funny and controversial to promote their own careers. Some do a better job of that than others, but it is just pathetic when you are trying to push the envelope and trying to be funny, and it just comes across as just reaching.

Thanks John for trying to lecture us on what constitutes being a real Texans fan. It is a good thing that he can foresee the future and knows that losing this game is what is best for the team.

His own arguments kinda work against him:

Why would anyone want a Texans win, in essence hoping for a pick with less value and control than No. 1?

Sure, it would hurt now. But fate has a funny way of turning for the better almost overnight.

Remember Julia Louis-Dreyfus? She once nearly got laughed out of Hollywood after a couple of sitcom bombs called The Art of Being Nick and Day by Day. Disheartened, she settled for a part in something called Seinfeld.

You won't be less of a fan by hoping for a loss on Sunday. You'd be more of one.


JLD didn't get what she wanted. She settled and got something better. It may be that if we got the first pick, we would feel compelled to get Bush and not to pass on the next big thing and Bush gets hurt. Or he gets his knee blown out in the Rose Bowl. Or any number of ooky scenarios that cannot even be envisioned.

In my life, there are so many things that I wanted to have happen, they didn't happen, and something better happened. All that being said.....

I will never root for my team to lose. I know this flies in the face of logic and reason but I really believe that it is karmic folly to root for something bad to happen to your team because it is a jinx. When a fan of a team starts rooting for being a loser, and it could be a karmic snowball jinxng everything.

Whatever happens happens. The team just needs to play its hardest and things will end up working out. If Bush comes here, that's cool by me. If we get a boatload of picks, that is cool by me. If we end up drafting lower, and still get some quality players, that is cool by me. I just don't want to mess with the football gods.

DRAMA
12-29-2005, 11:03 AM
I do completely agree with the 'Welfare state' comment but I don't think it fits us as a team.

Think about this - if Reggie Bush was not in this draft, we'd be happy picking 3rd or 4th and taking Brick, AJ HAWK, that Williams DE or maybe even Jimmy Williams the CB. However, because we see Bush and what he brings and what every announcer this side of the sun has said across the board, we want the #1 overall.

Also, we see the holes on this team and know that this pick could fortify us if we trade down. The most leverage here is with the #1. With a new coach, a new GM, a new offensive philosophy - I think we all think that we can turn this thing around pretty quickly and get back on track.

I don't want to pull against the Texans to win but I do want that overall help to 'get me back on my feet' ala - the welfare system. The Cardinals? The Saints? The Lions? They tend to remind me more of a wefare state. I just want a little pick me up to get me past what I see as merely a bump in the road (2005 season).

Malloy
12-29-2005, 11:11 AM
Most people in this country live on welfare with no real intentions of getting off of it, unless some other better scam comes along.


I think you're pushing it with this statement. Calling others misery a scam is, imo, bad taste and totally unsuitable in a football discussion. It's like saying that people from New Orleans should take care of their own crap because they chose to live there themselves.

Welfare is state-instituted compassion, not a slacking-off system.

Enough of this, let's get back to football talk plz..

Malloy
12-29-2005, 11:42 AM
I will admit that the analogy is not perfect, but I suspect you are sugarcoating the reality of this system. I know what it was intended for, but what it is and what it was meant to be are two completely diferent things. But this is a topic for another board, and like I said, I am not making a blanket statement accusing everyone who is or ever has been on welfare: I was pointing only to those who do abuse it, which is, I suspect, a substantial majority. Still, this can only end up in a mean-spirited, football-irrelevant argument, so ignore that and let's get on with it.

Sure, I knew someone would get pissed about it, so examine the rest of my argument for what it is, and respond as you see fit.

NP, I just get hizzy when generalisations like this are made. When things are said often enough, some people tend to take the info for granted. But, I agree, let's get back to foosball :)

And to respond to your views, I agree completely :)

Buffi2
12-29-2005, 12:36 PM
I just don't want to mess with the football gods.

There is a lot to be said for karma and "messin'" with football gods and godesses. IMO we need to support our team, win or lose, and whatever happens - happens. It sure can't get any worse than this season - no matter what # pick we get - at least I don't see how. I'll be in SF waving the Texan towel, wearing my jersey and looking for a Texan win to end this dismal season on a high note. And if we lose, the season is over and we get a #1 draft pick. Life is good either way.:yahoo:

Blake
12-29-2005, 12:59 PM
Im not sure who said it, but I think they put it best as, If we win the game, we obviously arent the worst team in the league. If we lose, then we are the worst team, and deserve the top pick.

Either way, we will be #1, or #2. Bush, and Lienart will fall to us, and we can use them for a trade.

DRAMA
12-29-2005, 01:59 PM
Im not sure who said it, but I think they put it best as, If we win the game, we obviously arent the worst team in the league. If we lose, then we are the worst team, and deserve the top pick.

Either way, we will be #1, or #2. Bush, and Lienart will fall to us, and we can use them for a trade.

Not true about 1 or 2. I think that's why so many people want the 1 because if we win, we will most likely fall to 4 or 5.

Of course, IMHO, we can do a LOT worse that HAWK, Mario, or Jimmy W at the 5.

A Texan
12-29-2005, 02:14 PM
It's obviously very unprofessional for a sportswriter to say the things that Lopez said. But then since when have we ever seen anything by him that was worth reading. He's the Dan Patrick of the newspaper world.

FILO_girl
12-29-2005, 02:27 PM
Lopez, on a good day is a poor writer with dumb opinions.

On a bad day, he is absolutely unreadable.

The cheap shot on Babin (a second year player who tried playing hurt for a good part of this season) is just another illustration of a tendency of the Chronic's sports writers trying to do the Skip Bayless school of journalism. You know, trying to be funny and controversial to promote their own careers. Some do a better job of that than others, but it is just pathetic when you are trying to push the envelope and trying to be funny, and it just comes across as just reaching.

Thanks John for trying to lecture us on what constitutes being a real Texans fan. It is a good thing that he can foresee the future and knows that losing this game is what is best for the team.

His own arguments kinda work against him:

Why would anyone want a Texans win, in essence hoping for a pick with less value and control than No. 1?

Sure, it would hurt now. But fate has a funny way of turning for the better almost overnight.

Remember Julia Louis-Dreyfus? She once nearly got laughed out of Hollywood after a couple of sitcom bombs called The Art of Being Nick and Day by Day. Disheartened, she settled for a part in something called Seinfeld.

You won't be less of a fan by hoping for a loss on Sunday. You'd be more of one.


JLD didn't get what she wanted. She settled and got something better. It may be that if we got the first pick, we would feel compelled to get Bush and not to pass on the next big thing and Bush gets hurt. Or he gets his knee blown out in the Rose Bowl. Or any number of ooky scenarios that cannot even be envisioned.

In my life, there are so many things that I wanted to have happen, they didn't happen, and something better happened. All that being said.....

I will never root for my team to lose. I know this flies in the face of logic and reason but I really believe that it is karmic folly to root for something bad to happen to your team because it is a jinx. When a fan of a team starts rooting for being a loser, and it could be a karmic snowball jinxng everything.

Whatever happens happens. The team just needs to play its hardest and things will end up working out. If Bush comes here, that's cool by me. If we get a boatload of picks, that is cool by me. If we end up drafting lower, and still get some quality players, that is cool by me. I just don't want to mess with the football gods.

*applause* :redtowel:

El Tejano
12-29-2005, 02:39 PM
Im not sure who said it, but I think they put it best as, If we win the game, we obviously arent the worst team in the league. If we lose, then we are the worst team, and deserve the top pick.

Either way, we will be #1, or #2. Bush, and Lienart will fall to us, and we can use them for a trade.
That would be yours truly!! :redtowel:

HJam72
12-29-2005, 04:13 PM
I know and am glad that not one player or coach will purposely try to lose this game. I also hope they go out there and choke on themselves. They've screwed up all season (and several off-seasons) and have a 2-14 record. ONE MORE LOSS. That's all it takes to actually get something in return for all of this season's misery. If that makes me something less than a REAL fan, well, at this point, who really gives a crap?

I feel that way and I'm not even in the, "Take Reggie Bush!" camp.

TEXANRED
12-29-2005, 04:57 PM
Lets put this whole season into perspective. It sucked. Period. This season has divided this message board, caused the "How to ignore a poster" reposted, caused blind rantings of David Carr hatism's, I hate bradford post, I hate Mckiney post, I hate Drob post, I hate Pbuc post, I hate capers post, ect, debating whether or not to boo the home team, and while at the game the fans that are there are as excited as going to a funeral, has caused family and friends to bicker, co-workers to make fun of you, national broadcasters to make the Texans the butt of all their jokes, and getting glared at while wearing any kind of Texan gear. Not to mention the part time Cowboy fans who have dug out there gear from there closet.

The only bright spot is that palmer got fired.

So in light of this, be patient with the fans and media who view the coming of Reggie Bush as though he is the one who will come to lead this team and pick them up out of darkness. I have found that for this season you need to be patiant with impatiance.

I would be foolish to say that I dont want Reggie Bush as our Running back. Could you imagine having Bush and DD in the same backfield? I also hate us losing as well. Conflict of interest.

My own personal theory has always been if you are gonna F' somthin up, F' it up right. This season has been F'd up.

HJam72
12-29-2005, 05:06 PM
I hate P-Buc!!! :)

Wolf
12-29-2005, 05:19 PM
hmm Would Reggie Bush = Hakeem Olajuwon???

for those that don't remember..the rockets were accused of tanking games to win the rights to Olajuwan (with a coin flip if I recall). that is why there is a NBA draft lottery. and 2 world championships :heh:


seriously.. I see a team that lacks disipline and direction..that is why we are losing.. right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.. just stupid penalties/plays at the wrong time

Porky
12-29-2005, 05:26 PM
It really doesn't matter if us fans root for them or against them Sunday. It's the players and coaches who will determine the outcome.

Having said that, I hope the players give max effort. I expect nothing less. I'm not sure I can outright cheer against them Sunday, but if they lose, I won't be disapointed.

Either way, I see nothing wrong with playing youngsters, and if that leads to a loss, so be it. Not only will that help our future by giving us a better draft position, but we need to take a look at some of these guys and determine if they are in our future plans.

What's the difference between us playing younger players, losing and securing the number #1 pick, and the Colts playing 2nd stringers and young guys so there #1's don't get injured for the playoffs.

In both cases, the team is not playing it's best personell because that is what is best for their futures. In the Colts case, the future is very soon, in the Texans case, it's longer term. But in both cases, not playing their best helps their future bottom line. I fail to see much distinction, and if I were the Texans I would be playing Ragone at QB, and a bunch of young guys. If they win, so be it. At least you know you have some guys to build on for the future. If they lose, we get the #1 pick. I fail to see what starting Carr accomplishes.

Big B Texan Fan
12-29-2005, 05:26 PM
My take is this:

If I am a current player on this roster, and I keep hearing and reading that people in my town that I play for would want a loss to possibly draft a guy who may not come out and who could very well suck, I don't want to play for them. If I'm D-Rob, and I see what this Lopez guy says, and what some of the people on the message board have written, I'm asking for a trade. Any one that could hope for a loss, I would be embarressed to represent on the field. I wouldn't be suprised if that's why he didn't appear to be giving a solid effort last week against the Jags.

This is about the craziest post I've read. You would ask for a trade if you were on this team. Really, ......a trade. That's assinine (sp). Then what are you gonna do if the next team you get on goes through the same issue? Huh? It takes tough skin to be a sports celeb. It takes even tougher skin to be a sports celeb on a bad team. Just ask Ryan Leaf, Terrell Owen (when with 49er's), the list can go on.

And I doubt D-Rob tanked last weeks game. If that's so then F$@& a trade, his *** needs to be cut. And as far as being embarrassed, grow up and welcome to the NFL. And maybe even take a long look in the mirror and ask himself if he's done everything he could've possibly done.

Stat watching, record watching, & draft status watching is for the fans and the media. Not the players, not the coaches. Maybe the GM's and owners and future draftees but not Professional Players.

GP
12-29-2005, 05:42 PM
Real fans should hope for neither a win nor a loss against S.F.

Real fans should hope that McNair will be a man and get rid of buddies so we can have a real crew of front office guys and coaches that can do a lot more than just "give NFL football back to the city of Houston."

NO pick, whether it's 1st or last, will matter if we don't have the appropriate "fit" in the personnel and coaching departments. All picks are wasted if this team's ownership doesn't put a priority on paying top-notch personnel and coaching staff to DEVELOP and MANAGE the talent we pick or trade for.

Prediction: We will lose the 49er game.

TEXANRED
12-29-2005, 05:58 PM
No way do we lose to the 49'ers. I know our D is P-thetic, but not so bad as to let Alex Smith score. My prediction is we win 27-3. Then we go off and do the right thing in drafting D-brick and resign Wells. That is what my magic 8-ball told me.

And on a lighter note we continue to take players whose names we can't spell, Drob, Pbuc, Dbrick, Dhog, TJ, AJ, DD.

TEXANRED
12-29-2005, 06:05 PM
Real fans should hope for neither a win nor a loss against S.F.


Alot of talk about real fans these last few days. My personal definition of a true real fan is the one who still wears the gear, watches the game and cares whole heartedly about what happens to the team, and continuing to log onto this message board and getting bashed for there opinions and beliefs. If in some fans eyes that means losing the last game in hopes of drafting an athlete with tons of talent, then so be it.

We are all true fans no matter what side of the Bush camp you are on.

gwallaia
12-29-2005, 08:14 PM
Well crafted article by Mr. Lopez. It's a whole lot of truth with a bit of satire.

Here, Here John!

SESupergenius
12-31-2005, 06:06 PM
LOPEZ IS A LOSER!

What worthless piece of writing, he is basically telling the players to tank the game and is putting all his eggs into one basket. Hey Mr, Black Sox, maybe your profession is littered with unethical situations and you could care less about doing the right thing, but the majority of us would like to the Texans play hard EACH AND EVERY GAME. You make me sick by exposing your panties to the world with that loser mentality. you show that you have no sense of history in the NFL draft and use silly anecdotes from completely different situations not even relating the NFL, talk about apples and oranges. There is plenty of talent outside of the all mighty Bush, just go back to the previous drafts and view the top 5 talent. You're weak, your thinking is weak and you should be tanked by your bosses for letting this commentary out. I'm sure you'd be just as gutless if your company was doing bad, you'd probably write some rediculous stories so your readership would fall and you'd be happy if they brought in new writers instead of doing the right things to straighten the ship out. Pathetic.

aj.
12-31-2005, 06:34 PM
Well crafted article by Mr. Lopez. It's a whole lot of truth with a bit of satire.

Reaction is all he's after, whether he's staunch on his point or not. He's drawing them in like fish under a floodlight even though he's not being all that clever.

DocBar
12-31-2005, 07:09 PM
I know this is too far back for the youngins, but I still grin remembering when Pastorini beat the ***** out of Dale Robertson with Bum standing right there. Maybe someone ought to look up that tape and send it to Lopez.
Heck yeah I remember that. That was great. Hope the Texans lose and undecided on Bush or tradind down for multiple picks. Is there a couple of guys (LT/ DL) in the draft we could target that would equal Bush' worth? I'm not all that enamored with Bush, so considering my posts during last off season, he's probably the 2nd coming of Earl Campbell.

HJam72
12-31-2005, 07:31 PM
He might be the antithesis of Earl Campbell.