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TexanAddict
12-27-2005, 12:46 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

rmartin65
12-27-2005, 12:50 PM
Good post.

El Tejano
12-27-2005, 12:58 PM
They also had a crappy coach like Wayne Fontes that could only inspire his team to play great everytime his job was in danger. They also let go of their best QB Rodney Pete and their defense was never any good.

I think our defense went south this year becaue of the young talent on this team defensively. We do have alot of promise though in two young safeties, a real good CB in Dunta, and perhaps a new starter in Shantee Orr.

Our WR Andre Johnson is far better than Herman Moore ever was and Detroit never had the depth at RB that we do. Even though we make ourselves one demensional with the crappy OL we have we still aren't as one demensional as the Lions were with Sanders.
Getting Reggie Bush would create alot of depth to many positions.

Now the one thing I fear is that the team wont like this dude because of all the hype by the fans.

Blake
12-27-2005, 01:04 PM
Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.

ledzeppelin229
12-27-2005, 01:11 PM
I'm in the tradedown camp too, but think about this for a second. We would be fools to pass up on "the next Barry Sanders" just because of the Lions history. If anything it should be a lesson of "Just because you have a marquee player, doesn't mean you can quit building the rest of the team".

dsdamaged
12-27-2005, 01:16 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:


DSDAMAGED Posted on: Today, 07:59 AM


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QUOTE(jojob101 @ Dec 26 2005, 06:16 PM)
I have been saying this since the Bush threads began. One guy cannot take a crap team to the promise land. It has to be several key players at each position and depth. A defense wins championships and not a "Barry Sanders" look alike. Sure he (Bush) will bring for some nice plays but we can get those plays with other quality players on the 53 man roaster (gore/hicks) etc.

Barry Sanders went out with a ton of nice highlights and dances but never have you seen him hold up the Lombardi trophy. I bet if you ask him he would want the trophy. In fact, that's what they all want.

So that being said, this article underlines and highlights our should be view on missing the #1 pick. Even if we had the #1 I would hope we would take someone’s trade down. Gore is the man..!!
Shawn Alexander wasn't a #1
Tikki wasn't a #1
Terrel Davis, Stephen Davis, Dillon, Willie Paker... etc. etc. etc. We find the runners and make them holes to run through! go NINERS








yes its true barry has no trophy, but did you really expect the niners to stop building the team if we got him the way detroit did when they got barry? the fact that barry has no lombardi is due to the fact that while detroit had him they did nothing to compliment him and relied on him exclusivly. im not totally disapointed that we are out of the bush bowl, and i am happy we won last week and i expect to win again, i think a two game winning streak helps this club going into next year almost as much as a decent draft choice does. detroit was a sorry team with a sorry coach that didnt have the smarts to build around barry,s talent. i dont think we would have been that negligent if we had gotten bush. put barry sanders on any team that did continue to build around him and i bet he would have had his lombardi. ant team who makes the same bad drafting choices and signing practices that detroit did when they had barry is going to be bad...barry or no barry.


had the same argument from our own boards

El Tejano
12-27-2005, 01:18 PM
Note: I wouldnt mind getting Reggie, or trading him for more picks.

All I have to say, is at least they had the chance to play in the playoffs. I dont think Reggie can do it all. But he wouldnt be our only draft pick.

We would have 6 other draft picks to help out. Also this isnt a one year rebuilding plan. We will have a couple of more drafts to add to reggies team.

I would take Reggie over anyone in this draft, plus whatever we could get for him.

BUT! like i said, I wont mind if we do trade down, and fill multiple slots. As long as we get good value. Which I think we need a new GM to get.
I agree with that. Drafting Sanders was the step in the right direction but it was all the drafting of crappy QBs instead of filling something else that was the reason for sorry football in Detroit.

tulexan
12-27-2005, 01:28 PM
I'm sorry but I don't believe that comparing Reggie Bush to Barry Sanders is a bad thing. You cannot blame Barry Sanders for the Lions being a terrible franchise for the past 50 years. Barry didn't have the responsibility of picking good coaches, good general managers, and putting good players on the field. Any team in the NFL would love to have Barry Sanders on their team.

Saying that Reggie Bush is like Barry Sanders should be a reason why we would want him, not that Barry never won in the playoffs therefore Reggie will never win in the playoffs.

gg no re
12-27-2005, 01:33 PM
Reggie is a Heisman winner.

His chances of failing in the NFL is high.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 01:36 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

Your point is a flawed one I'm afraid. There are good arguments for not drafting Reggie Bush and for trading down to get more picks. This simply is not one of them.

The reason is simple. The Lions lack of progress when they had Barry Sanders does not in any way reflect on the use of a draft pick to select Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders was a brilliant selection and would be so if you had not one single other player signed to your roster at the time you chose him.

The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team. Barry Sanders did what he was drafted to do. He gave the Detroit Lions a HOF quality running game for the period of time he played for them. As so many posters point out when arguing against drafting Reggie Bush, football is a team sport and no one player can win a Super Bowl. Earl Campbell couldn't do it, Barry Sanders couldn't do it, and Reggie Bush won't do it even if he does turn out to be the next ______________ (insert famous running back name here).

He won't do it unless the organization assembles the kind of talent around him that it takes to win a Super Bowl and THEN provides that talent with the kind of coaching it takes to win a Super Bowl.

If the argument is about one player getting you to the big game then the argument is over. It's not going to happen.

Following that sentiment why do you draft David Carr in 2002? One player can't get you to the Super Bowl so why select David Carr in our first year when our needs were far greater than they are today? The Texans took him because they believed that he was capable of leading this team to the Super Bowl and because you build your team one great player at a time.

You draft the best players you can get and you do it year after year after year. One draft isn't enough even with extra picks . We had extra picks in 2002 and 2003. Who wants to go back over where that got us? Anybody?

You don't pass on a great player when you see one standing right in front of you. To me that is one simple argument that trumps all others when it comes to drafting Reggie Bush (assuming we hold the #1 overall selection). It's a combination of the following.

1. When are you going to be holding this high a draft pick again? Hopefully not anytime soon right?

2. Do you see a player that's worthy of being selected #1 overall?

3. Do you already have someone at that position who is better than the guy you want to pick?

Most teams don't want to come back here to the top of the losers pool and trading into this spot is expensive. When you hold the #1 pick you've got hold of something very unusual. One team per year gets to pick before everyone else. Nobody is off the board. You can do anything (yes, even walk away for the right price).

I think right now that Bush is a player who's worth this pick. I think so. I want to see the Rose Bowl of course and I'm thinking that if he does to Texas what he's done to everyone else then he's very much worth the first selection overall. Whether or not Bush is worth the #1 is an arguable point.

I don't think there's any doubt that IF you believe Bush is worth the first overall pick on the draft then Domanick Davis is not better than Bush. At that point it's a forgone conclusion that Bush is an upgrade.

Barring a trade down that gets us greater value than Bush I take Bush. The trade down is a strong possibility but you have to make something of those picks. Trade Bush away for more selections and then pick some guys who fail to perform and you'll be kicking yourself for the rest of his career (and possibly longer).

Tough choice. I'll be glad when next week's game is over and we know whether it's going to have to be made.

TexasJedi
12-27-2005, 01:44 PM
But you have to consider the rest of the Lions drafts surrounding Sanders in order to view it in it's proper context.

1993
2(33) Ryan McNeil DB Miami (FL)
3(62) Antonio London LB Alabama
3(68) Mike Compton C West Virginia
6(147) Greg Jeffries DB Virginia
7(174) Ty Hallock LB Michigan State
8(201) Kevin Miniefield DB Arizona State

1992
1(26) Robert Porcher DE South Carolina State
2(53) Tracy Scroggins LB Tulsa
2(56) Jason Hanson K Washington State
3(81) Thomas McLemore TE Southern
6(145) Larry Tharpe T Tennessee State
8(221) Willie Clay DB Georgia Tech
11(306) Ed Tillison RB NW Missouri

1991
1(10) Herman Moore WR Virginia
3(58) Reggie Barrett WR Texas-El Paso
4(91) Kevin Scott DB Stanford
5(118) Scott Conover G Purdue
6(151) Richie Andrews K Florida State
7(178) Franklin Thomas TE Grambling
8(205) Cedric Jackson RB Texas Christian
9(231) Darryl Milburn DE Grambling
11(285) Slip Watkins WR Louisiana State
12(318) Zeno Alexander LB Arizona

1990
1(7) Andre Ware QB Houston
2(35) Dan Owens DT USC
3(62) Marc Spindler DT Pittsburgh
4(90) Rob Hinckley LB Stanford
4(105) Chris Oldham DB Oregon
5(118) Jeff Campbell WR Colorado
6(147) Maurice Henry LB Kansas State
7(174) Tracy Hayworth LB Tennessee
8(194) Willie Green WR Mississippi
8(203) Roman Fortin G San Diego State
9(229) Jack Linn T West Virginia
10(258) Bill Miller WR Illinois State
11(285) Reginald Warnsley RB Southern Mississippi
12(313) Robert Claiborne WR San Diego State

1989
1(3) Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State
2(30) John Ford WR Virginia
3(59) Mike Utley G Washington State
4(86) Ray Crockett DB Baylor
5(115) Lawrence Pete DT Nebraska
6(141) Rodney Peete QB USC
7(170) Jerry Woods DB Northern Michigan
8(197) Chris Parker DT West Virginia
9(226) Derek MacCready DE Ohio State
10(253) Jason Phillips WR Houston
11(282) Keith Karpinski LB Penn State
12(309) James Cribbs DE Memphis State

1988
1(3) Bennie Blades DB Miami (FL)
2(29) Chris Spielman LB Ohio State
2(32) Pat Carter TE Florida State
3(58) Ray Roundtree WR Penn State
4(85) William White DB Ohio State
5(111) Eric Andolsek G Louisiana State
6(142) Carl Painter RB Hampton
7(169) Jeff James WR Stanford
8(196) Gary Hadd DE Minnesota
9(223) Kip Corrington DB Texas A&M
9(234) Todd Irvin T Mississippi
10(254) Paco Craig WR UCLA
11(281) Danny McCoin QB Cincinnati
1987
1(7) Reggie Rogers DE Washington
3(63) Jerry Ball DT Southern Methodist
4(92) Garland Rivers DB Michigan
6(148) Danny Lockett LB Arizona
7(175) Dan Saleamua DT Arizona State
8(203) Dennis Gibson LB Iowa State
9(230) Rick Calhoun RB Fullerton State
10(259) Raynard Brown WR South Carolina
11(286) Brian Siverling TE Penn State
12(315)Gary Lee WR Georgia Tech
1986
1(12) Chuck Long QB Iowa
2(29) Gary James RB Louisiana State
3(69) Joe Milnichik T North Carolina State
4(92) Devon Mitchell DB Iowa
5(119) Oscar Smith RB Nicholls State
8(205) Allyn Griffin WR Wyoming
9(231) Lyle Pickens DB Colorado
10(258) Tracy Johnson LB Morningside
11(290) Leland Melvin WR Richmond
12(317) Allan Durden DB Arizona



You tell me if the Sanders era Lions were a well run organization. I see a few nice picks other than Sanders, but folks keep saying the Lions did not win anything with Barry. What did he have around him? I think the argument for Bush is not that he would win games all by himself, but he would change the complexion of our offense all by himself. Teams would have to account for him and AJ. I'm not in the Bush or bust camp. If we can get a good trade down and still get Ferguson or some defensive help them I'll be on board. But we better make sure we know what we are doing on draft day no matter who we pick.

gwallaia
12-27-2005, 01:53 PM
Perhaps the Texans can look at the Lions with Barry Sanders and learn from their mistakes and not repeat them here in Houston.

El Tejano
12-27-2005, 01:53 PM
I do recall a team that took the best RB in college real high on the draft before. I recall it involved Steve Largent going to the Seahawks and a TE by the name of Oscar Giles going to the Bucs. It was the Houston Oilers who drafted Earl Campbell. Although Steve Largent and Oscar Giles had good careers none took their team to the AFC championship.

Isn't ironic that another Houston team has a chance at the best RB in the draft again?

TexansFanatic
12-27-2005, 01:59 PM
To those who want Reggie Bush...
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Bad analogy. The Lions organization sucks now and sucked then. Of course you can't build a winner around one player.

What we are hoping is that Reggie Bush is ONE OF the last pieces of the puzzle, much like Emmitt Smith was ONE OF the last pieces of the Cowboy puzzle that led to 3 Super Bowl trophies....

TexanAddict
12-27-2005, 01:59 PM
The Lions lack of progress during the Sanders years is an indictment of the teams inability to assemble the necessary talent around Barry Sanders to get the job done. You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team.

I do not blame Barry Sanders and honestly believe he was one of the best backs to ever play the game. I am simply making the statement that teams win championships, one player cannot be a team's savior, and that our organization has begun to mirror that of the Lions for some of the very reasons you mentioned. This organization has been spotty at best in both the draft and free agency, reaching on some players and not properly utilizing those that we obtain. It was more of a word of caution to all those who think the signing of Bush will usher in a period of the Texans dominance over the NFL, where Lombardi trophies seem rain from the skies. Unless we see significant improvement from the front office we may indeed end up looking more like those Lions than we would like to. As I said before I would not be upset if we did in fact pick Bush, I just believe all options should be explored without the pick simply being a foregone conclusion.

El Tejano
12-27-2005, 02:08 PM
Apologies. Houston traded swapped with Tampa to get Earl at the #1 spot in 78. Man that makes me not want to trade down.

Johnny Utah
12-27-2005, 02:09 PM
So after the Texans draft Reggie Bush they need to continue to have good drafts afterwards. Point taken.

stevo3883
12-27-2005, 02:11 PM
this is a really bad arguement.

I guess the Colts shouldve just traded down when they picked manning. how many rings does he have? 0

obviously 1 player cant win a championship, so trading down is the way to go! the colts and lions wouldve been so much better off if they had traded their #1 and #3 picks because those guys just didnt help the team as much as 2-3 later picks wouldve!

brilliant

gg no re
12-27-2005, 02:14 PM
QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 02:25 PM
QBs have a bigger role than any other position on offense.

Compared to the QB, the RB is just a low-level executive.

I disagree. When half the plays you call in the course of the season are running plays they are more equal in importance than that.

Barry Sanders never won a Super Bowl for Detroit which (outside this thread - no offense TAddict) is always thrown up as a reason why we shouldn't draft Reggie Bush. Barry Sanders didn't have a QB in his time.

Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.

Txn_in_Oki
12-27-2005, 02:33 PM
Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.

Elway didn't win either, that is until Denver picked up a running game.

I would love to have Bush, and I would love to trade and get a bunch of picks. Bush would open things up and an OL could start to give us a decent line, Hawk wouldn't be such a bad pick up for the D either.

One question I raise though is, what if Bush decided he didn't want to play for the Texans? What if he decided to pull an Eli? I haven't seen anything questioning that so I thought I would throw it out there.

aj.
12-27-2005, 02:35 PM
You can't blame Barry because the Lions consistently made poor choices in the draft and hired a parade of boobs to coach their team.

Fontes and Bobby Ross were the only two head coaches during the Sanders era so that would hardly qualify as a parade, but I won't argue the boob list pre and post Sanders, with gems like Mornhinweg, Darryl Rogers, and Monte Clark.

Five starting QBs (Peete, Mitchell, Kramer, Krieg, Batch) during that period and a defense that consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NFL didn't help the cause either.

It's clear that the supporting cast, including sound coaching and management, has to be there to enable success.

Keyser Soze
12-27-2005, 02:43 PM
I disagree. When half the plays you call in the course of the season are running plays they are more equal in importance than that.


Not to mention when your RB is the team's leading receiver, you begin to see his importance.

Barry Sanders was wasted in Detroit. He never had a good team around him.

Marino never won the big one, largely because they never had a running game and relied too much on one dimension. Quick - name the best RB Marino ever played with...

The Texans have decent special teams, an above-average QB (look around the league), Davis, AJ, Mathis, Robinson, Walker - they have talent. Bush could be another ingredient. They still need better defense and a coaching change, but to pass on Bush because of Sanders' career is, bluntly, stupid. Bush isn't Sanders, but he is an athlete that could bring an impact to the team.

The Texan's tossing a bunch of picks in a pile to move up and grab him right now would not make sense. However, in the position where he's yours for the taking - you take him. Then continue to build, and not squander your subsequent picks, like we have been doing.

JMO

aj.
12-27-2005, 02:49 PM
Elway didn't win either, that is until Denver picked up a running game.


...and Shanahan.

tulexan
12-27-2005, 02:51 PM
One question I raise though is, what if Bush decided he didn't want to play for the Texans? What if he decided to pull an Eli? I haven't seen anything questioning that so I thought I would throw it out there.


I don't think this is much of an issue. Reggie Bush seems like a pretty down to earth person who just wants the chance to play. I also think that since he has been hanging out with LaDainian Tomlinson so much that he wouldn't pull an Eli considering that LaDainian has been pretty outspoken about Eli's choice of demanding a trade and refusing to play for San Diego.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 02:54 PM
I do not blame Barry Sanders and honestly believe he was one of the best backs to ever play the game. I am simply making the statement that teams win championships, one player cannot be a team's savior, and that our organization has begun to mirror that of the Lions for some of the very reasons you mentioned. This organization has been spotty at best in both the draft and free agency, reaching on some players and not properly utilizing those that we obtain. It was more of a word of caution to all those who think the signing of Bush will usher in a period of the Texans dominance over the NFL, where Lombardi trophies seem rain from the skies. Unless we see significant improvement from the front office we may indeed end up looking more like those Lions than we would like to. As I said before I would not be upset if we did in fact pick Bush, I just believe all options should be explored without the pick simply being a foregone conclusion.

I understand. Teams win championships. Teams are built from players and coaches. You can pile up talent and fail to coach it (Oilers of the early to mid 90's) and you can give the most brilliant coaches in the world nothing to work with and it looks like the exact same thing.

You have to start somewhere and whether you start with your usual number of picks in the draft or a few extra picks it's not going to change the fact that it takes repeated drafts to put together the players. Does anyone think we're going to get offered 5 players and 8 picks by someone for the right to say "Reggie Bush" on draft day? It won't be a Herschel Walker kind of deal. It's going to be more of a Ricky Williams kind of deal and probably not even that big.

That has me wondering something. Since the Ricky Williams "fiasco" with Ditka trading his entire draft just to get that one player is like the "perfect storm" scenario for trading Reggie Bush (someone stupid enough to give up a ton to get this guy) lets look at that.

Who did the the Saints trade with? Was it the Redskins? Were those Charlie Casserly GM'd Redskins? What did Cass do with the windfall he got from trading Ricky Williams rights?

Well he got Champ Bailey. That's cool. What did he do with all those other picks? I don't know because in 1999 it looks like the Redskins only had 6 selections. He must have traded them or something. The next season he (or whoever was there) got LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels in the first (according to nfl.com's draft history). He had 8 picks in 2000 (no 2nd rounders but an extra 1 and an extra 7). Following that 1999 deal I just don't see the overwhelming improvement a trade down like that is supposed to generate. I don't see the multitude of kick butt players that came in as a result of passing on Ricky Williams.

Color me not all that impressed with the "windfall" I pray we don't see what kind of "bounty" Casserly brings home for Reggie Bush's rights. Hopefully he's gone by then.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 02:57 PM
Fontes and Bobby Ross were the only two head coaches during the Sanders era so that would hardly qualify as a parade, but I won't argue the boob list pre and post Sanders, with gems like Mornhinweg, Darryl Rogers, and Monte Clark.

Five starting QBs (Peete, Mitchell, Kramer, Krieg, Batch) during that period and a defense that consistently ranked in the bottom half of the NFL didn't help the cause either.

It's clear that the supporting cast, including sound coaching and management, has to be there to enable success.

Quite correct. I was throwing pre-Sanders and post-Sanders history in there. My bad on that one.

DRAMA
12-27-2005, 03:04 PM
Let's see -

we can't draft Reggie because of Sanders.
we can't draft Hawk because he has a cool name like Tracy Rocker..who was a bust.
we can't a fast CB from Miami because look at PBuc.
we can't draft a WR because what has Troy Williamson done?
we can't draft a safety - Sean Taylor hasn't won a ring neither has Roy Williams.
We can't draft Vince Young because of Randall, McNabb, and Vick
We can't draft Brick because look at what happened to Mandarich..

With the 1st pick overall in the 2006 draft, the Texans select Marcedes Lewis (Crap! We already have Joppru and what has he done?)

oops...With the 1st pick overall in the 2006 draft, the Texans select


...a Fullback! Daryl Johnston won SUperbowls baby!! Fullback it is!

:ok:

Coach C.
12-27-2005, 03:09 PM
Well he got Champ Bailey. That's cool. What did he do with all those other picks? I don't know because in 1999 it looks like the Redskins only had 6 selections. He must have traded them or something. The next season he (or whoever was there) got LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels in the first (according to nfl.com's draft history). He had 8 picks in 2000 (no 2nd rounders but an extra 1 and an extra 7). Following that 1999 deal I just don't see the overwhelming improvement a trade down like that is supposed to generate. I don't see the multitude of kick butt players that came in as a result of passing on Ricky Williams.

Color me not all that impressed with the "windfall" I pray we don't see what kind of "bounty" Casserly brings home for Reggie Bush's rights. Hopefully he's gone by then.

Herv you just listed 3 pro bowlers for one guy. Plus you have to add Jon Jansen on that list. That type of windfall impresses me. I mean the rest of the picks were at most one or two year depth, but 3 pro-bowlers and a RT that is close. Hell that seems like you got more than value. Three players and one possible HOF(Champ Bailey) for one guy.

Wharton
12-27-2005, 03:21 PM
Something to remember about Sanders was his running style. During his career, Berry was always among the rushing leaders. But, to many people, myself being on of them, he was not a quality running back because of his running style.

Berry tended run east/west alot and if the opportunity presented itself, ran north/south. Berry would have no yardage (or negative yards) for 3-5 plays, then bust one for 10-15 yards. In contract, running backs that gind it out, like Emmitt Smith and Terrell Davis, would put his head down push the pile forward. Something Berry never did. Since 3rd and 3 yards in easier to get then 3rd and 10, grinders take a huge burden off of quarterbacks.

Just food for thought!

:twocents:

TexanAddict
12-27-2005, 03:35 PM
During his career, Berry was always among the rushing leaders. But, toy many people, myself being on of them, he was not a quality running back because of his running style.

I'm sorry, but I must beg to differ. Any back, regardless of running style, that averages 5.0 yards per carry for his career must at least be considered a quality running back.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 03:41 PM
Herv you just listed 3 pro bowlers for one guy. Plus you have to add Jon Jansen on that list. That type of windfall impresses me. I mean the rest of the picks were at most one or two year depth, but 3 pro-bowlers and a RT that is close. Hell that seems like you got more than value. Three players and one possible HOF(Champ Bailey) for one guy.

Yes and this was a result of the Saints entire 1999 draft and I understand a pick or two the following year. I do not expect anyone to do that again for Reggie Bush. Nobody wants to step up and be the next Mike Ditka giving up the farm for one guy. I don't think you get anywhere near that kind of value for Bush this season. That's a fantasy at best.

What do you think Charlie is going to get for Reggie Bush? Three Pro Bowl players? I'll be (pleasantly) stunned to see something like that happen. In a world where you can't trade Edge James for a 1 and the memory of what Ditka gave for Williams (as well as what Williams did to the Dolphins last season) is still fairly current in GM's minds I doubt anyone is willing to put that many eggs in one basket again.

A couple of 1's and maybe a 2 is going to be nice. We'll see. The point of my post was that the skins got that and we're (probably) not going to get that.

Malloy
12-27-2005, 03:45 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

100% agree. positive rep inc :)

The Mighty Texan
12-27-2005, 03:51 PM
Here is the problem folks... Its a gamble! Number one draft picks are a scam and a waste of money! They have yet to prove themselves in the NFL and yet the are offered so much serious money! Bad move! I say offer him the big bonus money after he makes some plays and is a value to the team. A structured contract so that IF he makes it past the first few years and CAN play NFL football then he recieves it!! He ain't worth the money! trade him and get an O line!!!!!!!!!! What is that?? you ask! "those are the people that should block the opposing defense and prevent our QB from being sacked... yea, thats right! We forget that part... OUR O-LINE SUCKS!!!! Ask David! Actually after we trade him (Bush) we should have enough money left over to buy a freakin playbook! Cause our sucks too!!!!!!!! We have no imagination, no playcalling we SUCK!!

Imagine this you have a college grad and he comes to your company and get a few million dollars in salary when HE STARTS WORK! Yet, you have been there forever and have made a contribution to the company year after year...yet you get only get 85,000 a year... and haven't seen a bonus in years... A crock!! Trade Reggie and let him fail someplace else!

Tha Mighty Texan!!

HeartofHouston
12-27-2005, 03:55 PM
Awseome post by TAddict it's the same exact thing that i've been saying while I would LOVE to see Reggie Bush in a Texan's jersey I'm not sure if it's the right move right now.. We have a lot of holes to fill and unless Bush can play CB, LB, TE, OT and HB all at the same time.. we still are up ish creek with no paddle.. but like he said I wouldnt have a hissy fit if they picked Bush.. but at the same time I think extra day 1 picks would be a great option to look at too..

Bullpen Drew
12-27-2005, 04:09 PM
Some caller called 610 on Monday, made a point that just because we pick Bush #1, doesn't mean that the draft is over! Lots of good players can be found the in the later rounds.....SO DRAFT BUSH!

tulexan
12-27-2005, 04:24 PM
We have a lot of holes to fill and unless Bush can play CB, LB, TE, OT and HB all at the same time


Why can't we get a CB, LB, TE, and OT with our other draft picks and through free agency? We have four picks on the first day this year. We can get Reggie Bush and fill holes at the same time.

SESupergenius
12-27-2005, 04:26 PM
Thing is, before last year we were a couple of good players away from being playoff contenders. Casserly gambled away our hopes when he brought in Buchannon that cost us 2 very good picks as well as a starter in glenn. He set us back 3 full players with that move. So we have to make up for the 3 player loss this year, and even more if we can't sign a couple of guys. If we are to turn it around this year we HAVE to trade down a few spots and gain some coveted picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. DD has issues with staying on the field but we already have Wells, Morency and Hollings. We can lose Wells to Free Agency, no biggie and we still have 3 backs. We draft Bush that makes it 4, and really only 2 get playing time. If we have issues with DD staying on the field then the solution was supposed to be Morency and Wells. If we draft Bush then we bump Morency down and basically make him worthless, another 3rd round pick wasted unless we trade DD. That's a lot gambling, but hey, who said Casserly is not a gambler. I for one am sick of the gambling.

Keyser Soze
12-27-2005, 04:49 PM
With the situation some quality backs found themselves in last off season, I just don't know if we would get the kind of super-package offered to us all for Bush.

But, if we picked him, then had a smart draft throughout the rest of it (I know - pipe dreams), then maybe this could be a special off season.

Do I expect one guy to carry us to the playoffs? Of course not. We need new blood, and not just in players. That said, Bush could be something special. Like I said, I wouldn't trade the farm to get him, because we're not in such dire need for him, but if he's offered to us on a silver platter, well then that's another story.

As far as him not wanting to come to Houston, I think of all teams the Saints will have the hardest time signing talent. Ask yourself if you would want to go through the kind of season they've had.

Honoring Earl 34
12-27-2005, 04:56 PM
:tv: Barry Sanders gave the Lions a name . The Lions sold tickets because people would pay to see Barry . If Barry ran behind the Cowboys OL he 'd probably have all the rushing records . The DC had to plan to stop Sanders.

Now why would not take a guy who's compared to great players ? If Carr and Sanders were in the same who do you take ? I'm not so much for Bush as I am against folks doing the backward enginering .

SESupergenius
12-27-2005, 05:16 PM
You have to look at salary cap issues as well, we've had 5 1st round picks, 3 in the top 10. If we draft Bush that's 4. It's a lot of money to tied up in a few players.

Carr - 3 years, 16.5 mil w/ 8mil bonus = 8.16mil a year
A. Johnson - 6 years, $39mil with 13.51 bonus = 8.751mil a year.
Robinson - 5 years, $10.698mil w/ 8mil bonus. = 3.73mil a year.
J. Babin - 6 years, $7 mil w/ 3.5mil bonus = 1.75mil a year
T. Johnson - 5 years, 10.2 mil w/ 7.77 bonus = 3.594 a year.

between those 5 guys, only 3 who are certified starters, they average about $26 mil a year, almost 1 quarter of the team. Add Bush to this and see what you get.

HoustonFan
12-27-2005, 05:21 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

You hit the nail on the head w/ this one. If he was to be selected great. But if other areas are not addressed, I think we'll all be very disppointed.

Texans86
12-27-2005, 05:34 PM
The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick. Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.

big homey
12-27-2005, 06:00 PM
The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick. Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.
I agree. For far too long we've ignored the OL, maybe using late-round picks here or there on some very questionable players, and it's brought us all the way down. This draft is the perfect opportunity to correct our mistakes, and if we miss it over a bunch of hype it will be the downfall of this franchise...again.

tulexan
12-27-2005, 06:03 PM
I don't think anyone who wants to pick Bush wants to completely ignore the OL or use late round picks on the OL. Most of the Bush supporters want him because they realize that the OL depth in the draft is very deep and that we can get a quality lineman with our second pick.

swtbound07
12-27-2005, 06:07 PM
i would like to take this opportunity to point out that barry sanders was a beast in tecmo super bowl. That is all.

SWRuss
12-27-2005, 06:27 PM
Just think of the deal that could be pulled off if Mcnair dangled Bush out in front of the other owners. There is no telling what we could get for him. How bout a couple of proven o-linemen. This is what they they need the most.
______________________________

Proud Member of the Can Cassery Club.:cool:

dat_boy_yec
12-27-2005, 06:55 PM
I don't think anyone who wants to pick Bush wants to completely ignore the OL or use late round picks on the OL. Most of the Bush supporters want him because they realize that the OL depth in the draft is very deep and that we can get a quality lineman with our second pick.

Yeah, what he said. I'm thinking a the best OT with the 33rd pick, one pick out of the 1st round. To be honest the Texans choices after the third round haven't really dissappointed me. DD, Mathis though I wouldn't mind a TE this yr. or a defensive player I think that the Texans will make the right choice. Also I think AJ is worth the money, Carr could re-structure his contract (I hope) Robinson is worth it, TJ isn't to bad and Babin could (should) be traded to a team that wants a DE. Considering the cap situation next yr. I think the Texans could handle Bush on their payroll. GO TEXANS!!!!!!

Carr Bombed
12-27-2005, 07:32 PM
Okay first of all, it is entirely stupid and unfair to bush to compare him to barry and the same goes for comparing barry to bush. They aren't even the same type of runner. As far as rbs go for every "barry didn't carry the lions to a championship" argument. (which I think is unfair, he carried them from being a absolute laughing stock in the league and was a damn good player) There is a player like marshel faulk, yeah he didn't help them win a superbowl. :rolleyes: I'm not comparing Bush to Marshall, because again it isn't fair. All I'm saying is people are starting to just make excuses why we should't take him and are really just starting to act scared.

Second people are really starting to sound hypocritical also. They say that bush isn't a sure bet and thats true no player is, but then they act if we trade down all the picks we aquire will be. Whose to say if we trade down and pick up extra picks we'll even aquire talent equivelent to bush if he ends up having a great career and all we got was maybe a above avg. player, a avg. player, and a couple of people that didn't even make the cut. Remember one of the points that was brought up in the "Barry didn't help the Lions" and the "Lions are comparable to the texans" arguments was that we had a sketchy front office, but they want to trust that same front office to pull off a trade involving one of the most acclaimed players to come out in some time, does that make any sense. Sometimes the worst pick a franchise can make is the pick they don't make.

Also how can any argue that Washington trading away Ricky helped them even if they did pick up a possible HOFer in Bailey, THEY ENDED UP TRADING HIM FOR YOU GEUSSED IT A RB (who is one of the big reasons they might be going to the playoffs) and Lavar doesn't even play for them anymore.

I would rather watch Bush become a bust or not live up to expectations, than be known as the team that traded away his rights for a starter and maybe a situational guy and a couple that aren't even on the team anymore and then had to sit back and watch him become great.

UHD1906
12-27-2005, 08:30 PM
He hasn't stayed healthy for a full season yet!! Why do people think he's the back of the future for the Texans? If we had Bush, we could make use of him and Davis.

Erratic Assassin
12-27-2005, 08:36 PM
Reggie is a Heisman winner.

His chances of failing in the NFL is high.

That's nonsense! The Heisman trophy is a foolproof predicter of NFL success!

Signed,

Chris Weinke

Carr Bombed
12-27-2005, 08:48 PM
That's nonsense! The Heisman trophy is a foolproof predicter of NFL success!

Signed,

Chris Weinke
Actually if you want to be serious about it, it is nonsense. Atleast with the theory that heisman winners have a high fail rate compared to their other counter parts selected high in the draft. The truth is that is one of the biggest misconceptions about the draft. The truth is the success and failure rate of heisman winners is about par with the success and failure rates of other high drafted players.

Hervoyel
12-27-2005, 09:04 PM
The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick.

Simply not true. This team has addressed the offensive line every year since 2002 to some extent. Not everything has worked according to plan (Boselli and Young) and not every attempt to get better has been successful (Orlando Pace) but the overwhelming evidence shows that this team has taken steps to improve and was improving until a) Joe Pendry came in to take over coaching the offensive line and b) Run blocking was switched to a zone style while at the same time pass blocking assignments were changed This second part was completely downplayed at the time but it happened. The offensive line went from 76 sacks to 36 sacks and added a thousand yard rusher in 2003. In 2004 the same line again blocked enough for DD to get his thousand but they were up in the 40's on sacks. This year the run blocking is again about the same and we're in the high 60's or so.

It's not the linemen. It's the offense and pass protection assignments. It's Joe Pendry.

Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.

Maybe. I'll be behind anything we do with the pick (should we get it) but then of course what choice do any of us have? Go Cowboys fan? I don't think so. I'll hope they do the right thing with the picks they get for Bush's rights and I'll hope that Bush pans out if we take him.

HJam72
12-27-2005, 09:57 PM
....but the overwhelming evidence shows that this team has taken steps to improve and was improving until a) Joe Pendry came in to take over coaching the offensive line and b) Run blocking was switched to a zone style while at the same time pass blocking assignments were changed This second part was completely downplayed at the time but it happened. The offensive line went from 76 sacks to 36 sacks and added a thousand yard rusher in 2003. In 2004 the same line again blocked enough for DD to get his thousand but they were up in the 40's on sacks. This year the run blocking is again about the same and we're in the high 60's or so.



I have to agree with the part that I've quoted, although I'd still rather trade down. I've always felt that we lost a lot of pass protection somehow right about the time that we started the zone blocking.

The biggest reason that I can see for firing Capers is that he promoted Pendry instead of firing him.

DRAMA
12-27-2005, 11:10 PM
Okay first of all, it is entirely stupid and unfair to bush to compare him to barry and the same goes for comparing barry to bush. They aren't even the same type of runner. As far as rbs go for every "barry didn't carry the lions to a championship" argument. (which I think is unfair, he carried them from being a absolute laughing stock in the league and was a damn good player) There is a player like marshel faulk, yeah he didn't help them win a superbowl. :rolleyes: I'm not comparing Bush to Marshall, because again it isn't fair. All I'm saying is people are starting to just make excuses why we should't take him and are really just starting to act scared.

Second people are really starting to sound hypocritical also. They say that bush isn't a sure bet and thats true no player is, but then they act if we trade down all the picks we aquire will be. Whose to say if we trade down and pick up extra picks we'll even aquire talent equivelent to bush if he ends up having a great career and all we got was maybe a above avg. player, a avg. player, and a couple of people that didn't even make the cut. Remember one of the points that was brought up in the "Barry didn't help the Lions" and the "Lions are comparable to the texans" arguments was that we had a sketchy front office, but they want to trust that same front office to pull off a trade involving one of the most acclaimed players to come out in some time, does that make any sense. Sometimes the worst pick a franchise can make is the pick they don't make.

Also how can any argue that Washington trading away Ricky helped them even if they did pick up a possible HOFer in Bailey, THEY ENDED UP TRADING HIM FOR YOU GEUSSED IT A RB (who is one of the big reasons they might be going to the playoffs) and Lavar doesn't even play for them anymore.

I would rather watch Bush become a bust or not live up to expectations, than be known as the team that traded away his rights for a starter and maybe a situational guy and a couple that aren't even on the team anymore and then had to sit back and watch him become great.

If I could get past my need to post sarcastically at those who say Bush will suck but a 3rd rounder won't - this is the post I would've tried to write.

very nice!

SESupergenius
12-27-2005, 11:41 PM
Simply not true. This team has addressed the offensive line every year since 2002 to some extent. putting scotch tape on a 16 inch gash on your forehead would be addressing the problem to some extent too, but I wouldn't exactly say that it will fix it. Were you one of the ones that thought P-Buc was going to make our defense faster and younger?

gg no re
12-28-2005, 12:46 AM
Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.I didn't say the QB was the key to the team's success. I said the QB was key to the success of the offense.

Don't blow my lines out of proportion, because that's what you're doing.

Atleast with the theory that heisman winners have a high fail rate compared to their other counter parts selected high in the draft. The truth is that is one of the biggest misconceptions about the draft. The truth is the success and failure rate of heisman winners is about par with the success and failure rates of other high drafted players.15 of the last 20 Heisman winners have not been impact players in the NFL.

That's the truth.

Big B Texan Fan
12-28-2005, 01:01 AM
Let's just say that the Fresno game never happened for Bush. Better yet let's just give him normal #'s for that game. 150 rush / 45 rec / 65 total PR & KR. With 2 TD's. Now let's add about 10 more TD's to Vince Young's totals. That ought to equate to him missing most of the 4th quarters this season.

Now does Bush win the Heisman? Or is it Vince?

Then would it be OK to take him since the Heisman jinx isn't there.

Or would we still draft Vince (if he came out) regardless of winning the Heisman.

Food for thought.

gg no re
12-28-2005, 01:18 AM
Not really.

I'd elaborate, but you'd retort with more information to waste my time.

For example:

"It still doesn't change the fact that RB is a pressing need."

"But an upgrade is an upgrade."

"Battles are won in the trenches."

"But Bush is flashy."

"OTs are acquired with 1st rounders."

"You can pick up a good OT in the 2nd round."

"You can pick up a good RB in the 2nd round or later."

"But you can't pass Bush."

"Denver RBs, for the most part, were drafted low or abandoned by other teams."

"Leave Denver RBs out of this. They benefit from a strong oline."

"Exactly my point."

"Yes, I will forfeit my argument and agree that olines are a higher priority than RBs. I acknowledge the fact that we can wait another three years for a stud RB, but we cannot wait another five years for a stud OT."

jacquescas
12-28-2005, 01:37 AM
and what O lineman that we would draft with our first round pick will start from day 1 and solidify our line. History shows that except for the very elite (ogden, Pace) tackles take a couple years to develop, look at Robert Gallery who people were pushing for, spent a whole year on the right side. If we signed d'brick he isn't big enough to play guard for a year, and he prolly can't beat out pitts for the first year or two.

Carr Bombed
12-28-2005, 02:04 AM
15 of the last 20 Heisman winners have not been impact players in the NFL.

That's the truth.

Actually about double of the players you have mentioned, which is 10 have made a impact in the nfl. I'm starting at 2002 and down, because both leinart and bush have yet to step on the field and white hasn't been given a chance- although I never thought he would be a good pro, that makes it about 50/50. With that said I could easily and I mean easily pull up just as many HIGH HIGH first round draft picks that have totally canned. Like I said The success and failure rate is about par with Hiesman winners and top 5 selections. If you want to really look at it arguing against a Hiesman rb really doesn't support your case. Seeing how most of the alltime greats were Hiesman winners and theres a couple still waiting to go into canton, like E. George. The Hiesman failures are extremely overated and are mostly tied to qbs not rbs

Waltman
12-28-2005, 02:09 AM
First of all I would like to say that the Texans organization would be stupid not to draft Reggie, and they will be even stupider to draft him then trade him. People always try to find the quick fix and in doing so passes up the important pieces. That's what Reggie is, an important piece that can be built around with other important pieces. Building a successful team takes time and I don't know about everyone else but I've seen alot of college talent and
Reggie is freakishly talented. No I don't expect the Texans to make it to the Big Dance next year if we draft Reggie, but you know what. The following year we will be there drafting again and hopefully we will be putting other important pieces around Reggie. So no Reggie will not take us to the promise land in 2007, we didn't get the chance for first pick for nothing we sucked. But it's crazy to pass on him because of the failures of other teams structure and organization.:cool:

Carr Bombed
12-28-2005, 02:25 AM
Let's just say that the Fresno game never happened for Bush. Better yet let's just give him normal #'s for that game. 150 rush / 45 rec / 65 total PR & KR. With 2 TD's. Now let's add about 10 more TD's to Vince Young's totals. That ought to equate to him missing most of the 4th quarters this season.

Now does Bush win the Heisman? Or is it Vince?

Then would it be OK to take him since the Heisman jinx isn't there.

Or would we still draft Vince (if he came out) regardless of winning the Heisman.

Food for thought.I love Vince, I really do, but he scares gms, because they don't know what to do with him. With his size and speed peope are always going to question whether he should be a wideout and they're always going to question his arm and accuracy at the nfl level.

I hope Vince goes lower in the draft to a good team with a offensive genius that knows how to develop him and use him to the best of his abilities. With that said he has made great strides this year in the passing game and has suprised alot of people, I just hope the best for him and good luck on 01/04

RedTex
12-28-2005, 03:15 AM
I agree!!!! The main question I keep dealing with is, should we draft #5 and possibably have another terrible season, but have him and DD to build around for years to come??? or trade the pick away to fill many of our current spots for next season??? In the long run witch would be better??

Malloy
12-28-2005, 07:06 AM
He hasn't stayed healthy for a full season yet!! Why do people think he's the back of the future for the Texans? If we had Bush, we could make use of him and Davis.

He's played almost as many games as AJ. He also carries a much greater load, takes more hits and such.

Carr Bombed
12-28-2005, 07:19 AM
He's played almost as many games as AJ. He also carries a much greater load, takes more hits and such.you can't compare a rb to a wr, every rb on every team has had more contact than their wr, I don't know what point your trying to make. :confused:

Txn_in_Oki
12-28-2005, 07:43 AM
i would like to take this opportunity to point out that barry sanders was a beast in tecmo super bowl. That is all.

That is a terrible, terrible argument to start. The merits of a cyber-Sanders on Tecmo Bowl could bring down this message board. Then again a cyber-Sanders never stood a chance against the power that was Tecmo-Bo. Jackson would run and run and run. THousand yard games? No prob. If for some reason your opponent was on to you, you could always toss the other way to Allen.

Geez, see what you started. :redtowel:

Carr Bombed
12-28-2005, 07:55 AM
That is a terrible, terrible argument to start. The merits of a cyber-Sanders on Tecmo Bowl could bring down this message board. Then again a cyber-Sanders never stood a chance against the power that was Tecmo-Bo. Jackson would run and run and run. THousand yard games? No prob. If for some reason your opponent was on to you, you could always toss the other way to Allen.

Geez, see what you started. :redtowel:
Yeah Bo jackson was a BEAST in tecmo super bowl, with the LA raiders all you had to do was take the ball to the outside and he was unstopable. ha ha. God that was a long time ago, but damn I still have fun playing that game. You dont even have to pass, run left, run right, touchdown!

BigDTexansFan
12-28-2005, 08:00 AM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

Texan can go you one better in 1968 worst team gets #1 pick O. J. Simpson, Buffalo lost their game, Steelers won and lost #1 pick. Buffalo never made a serious run at Super Bowl, within a decade Steelers had been to several Super Bowls.

I will take 2 Super Bowls over Reggie Bush ANY DAY!!! :redtowel:

Carr Bombed
12-28-2005, 08:06 AM
hey lets compare bush to cambell since its been almost 30 years since he came into the league yeah!:redtowel: j/k

billtxus
12-28-2005, 08:32 AM
Of course it depends on what they can get for the draft choice. If they get a 2006 first and second, and a 2007 first and second, in my mind they should take it. If they can't get that, or anything close, then they should pass and take him.

Hervoyel
12-28-2005, 08:42 AM
Texan can go you one better in 1968 worst team gets #1 pick O. J. Simpson, Buffalo lost their game, Steelers won and lost #1 pick. Buffalo never made a serious run at Super Bowl, within a decade Steelers had been to several Super Bowls.

I will take 2 Super Bowls over Reggie Bush ANY DAY!!! :redtowel:

Yes you are absolutely correct! That's an astounding argument and one that nobody could possibly refute because we all know that what happens with the Texans in the next five years is predicated by the outcome of a game played in 1968 between the Steelers and Bills. Our future will absolutely mirror the 1970's in Buffalo and cannot in any way deviate from what happened to them.

Reggie Bush will someday murder his wife and one of her friends because of this too. It's literally a lock to happen.

jacquescas
12-28-2005, 08:53 AM
people first of draft picks don't equate superbowls, you can't say Barry or OJ failed their teams, it was poor management that failed to put talent around these players.

Hervoyel
12-28-2005, 09:05 AM
I'd elaborate, but you'd retort with more information to waste my time.

........ lines of quotes follow.



Pot? Is that you?

Waaaaasssssssup?

- Kettle

Frills
12-28-2005, 09:07 AM
With all the hype Bush has now, his agent will be wanting QB $$$. With DD signed to an extension last offseason, its moronic to have 2 RB's chewing up that much cap room.

gg no re
12-28-2005, 09:27 AM
Pot? Is that you?

Waaaaasssssssup?

- KettleYeah, I hear they're painting Pots black now. HOW CRAAAZY IS THAT?!

- Pot

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2005, 09:28 AM
Bush vs Sanders is a moot point for our current situation due to two main reasons - there was no salary cap when Sanders was drafted and there is no question that Bush is the most coveted player in this year's draft, where as Sanders went #3.

If we get the #1, perhaps the most important job will be the capologists role. With a #1 spent at QB and and a #3 at WR the impact over the years from these contracts and possibly Bush could put us in a feast or famine position. We have not been doing much feasting and that is why we need to trade down and get the best player available in the draft, for our need, at the right value, and at the same time pick up more picks. By building up the trenches we are essentially teaching ourselves how to feast, by taking an RB that high we are not learning from history that the average career is 4 years. Bush is more likely to get injured than he is to go to the Hall of Fame. To much risk given our current investment in the offense is not the way to go.

DRAMA
12-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Yeah Bo jackson was a BEAST in tecmo super bowl, with the LA raiders all you had to do was take the ball to the outside and he was unstopable. ha ha. God that was a long time ago, but damn I still have fun playing that game. You dont even have to pass, run left, run right, touchdown!

There was also that quick slant pass that Chicago threw that was the 'glitch' play. Maybe Grossman should try that.

Techmo-Bowl tooks hours of my life in college.....LOVED IT!!

SWRuss
12-28-2005, 10:54 AM
How do we know that Casserly will not give up our first pick in the draft for a 40 year old has been and a 5th and 6th round pick. Seems to be his pattern in dealing away good picks. Is he being paid by some other team to make these dumb moves?:twocents:
Another reason to fire Casserly

MorKnolle
12-28-2005, 12:01 PM
There was also that quick slant pass that Chicago threw that was the 'glitch' play. Maybe Grossman should try that.

Techmo-Bowl tooks hours of my life in college.....LOVED IT!!

Tecmo was pretty fun, but the best allround team was still the 49ers. It was virtually impossible to throw INTs with Joe Montana and all you had to do was down the ball at the 3 yard line on a kickoff, snap the ball on 1st down and sit back until Jerry Rice had run all the way down field and launch a 95 yard bomb for a TD every time. Then they had Charles Haley and Ronnie Lott to create a ruckus on defense, and Lott was very good at that.

real
12-28-2005, 06:03 PM
My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:


so you wouldn't have picked barry? One pick SHOULDN'T make or break a franchise, and it wasn't the "Barry" pick that cost the lions...Picking up reggie shouldn't send us into a downward spiral...adding a great player shouldn't hurt us more than 2-13...If we pick reggie and we go under 2-13 you win...

royce1054
12-28-2005, 06:10 PM
so you wouldn't have picked barry? One pick SHOULDN'T make or break a franchise, and it wasn't the "Barry" pick that cost the lions...Picking up reggie shouldn't send us into a downward spiral...adding a great player shouldn't hurt us more than 2-13...If we pick reggie and we go under 2-13 you win...


Well we wouldnt go under if we get some FA signings. I think the FA is what will decide how we pick. I am sure our owner will find a way to bring in atleast 1 or 2 OL through FA. If we through Bush out there without an O-line to help in the passing game Carr wont have a chance to get him the ball. Remember weeks 2-5 when Carr would take 3 steps then look like he was gonna get killed and start running. He had a complete loss in confidence past a 3 step drop. What happens if we pick Bush and dont get upgrade our O-line. What happens if Carr does this again next year. I would even say if we get a TE that would help a little.

real
12-28-2005, 06:31 PM
[QUOTE=jerek]
The Lions argument consists of people stating that, similarly to Barry Sanders, Reggie Bush will not in and of himself resurrect this team. Obviously, we need competent coaching and staff to surround him with [QUOTE=jerek]

Agreed...I never said that he would bring us back from the dead...I think he is a great talent that cant be passed unless you already have a top 5 running back...AND...A great recieving core


[QUOTE=jerek]To this most people would add, Davis is already a good back; if you disagree, fine.[QUOTE=jerek]He's decent...not top 5


[QUOTE=jerek]No one is saying that picking Barry Sanders screwed the Lions out of anything [QUOTE=jerek]]

If that's not what you all are saying, why the comparison...I agree that coacing and blah blah blah must be changed, but that has to be changed whether we get bush or not...



[QUOTE=jerek] Bush is 20 lbs lighter than Sanders and is coming into the NFL averaging 15 carries a game. He is flashy, sure, but no one knows what the hell he is going to look like at the end of his first season. [QUOTE=jerek]

Since college is all we have to judge any of these players off of...what is your point..the same can be said about every player in the draft..



[QUOTE=jerek]we ought to trade the pick to bolster the rest of our roster.[QUOTE=jerek]
That argument sounds like the one of impatience...Bush is a rare talent...we can bolster with role players later...Im talking about drafting a star...not some player that can come in and be "good"...There is plenty of time for that..I don't see a superbowl in the Texans near future so why such the rush...



[QUOTE=jerek]Great talent, but don't reserve his HOF seat just yet. He hasn't played a down in the NFL, remember[QUOTE=jerek]

Now you are going off on a rampage

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2005, 07:48 PM
:tv: Bush may be the best WR in the draft ... now you get a 2 for 1 . I thought Barry Sanders was 5'8 and 205 lbs , thats not a 20 lb difference .
I say tank and use the # 1 pick on the white RB from Rutgers ... then we have a one of kind .

swtbound07
12-29-2005, 12:28 AM
i respectfully disagree on the tecmo bowl point. The new york giants were far and away the best team on super tecmo bowl. They had 3 solid recievers (ingram, baker, bavaro) 2 of the best running backs (meggett, anderson,) the one of the best return men (meggett), and hands down the best defensive player on the game Lawrence Taylor. You could block extra points with LT, and get about 100 sacks a season....plus the flea flicker was indefensible as a play

Waltman
12-29-2005, 01:04 AM
[QUOTE=jerek]
The Lions argument consists of people stating that, similarly to Barry Sanders, Reggie Bush will not in and of himself resurrect this team. Obviously, we need competent coaching and staff to surround him with [QUOTE=jerek]

Agreed...I never said that he would bring us back from the dead...I think he is a great talent that cant be passed unless you already have a top 5 running back...AND...A great recieving core


[QUOTE=jerek]To this most people would add, Davis is already a good back; if you disagree, fine.[QUOTE=jerek]He's decent...not top 5


[QUOTE=jerek]No one is saying that picking Barry Sanders screwed the Lions out of anything [QUOTE=jerek]]

If that's not what you all are saying, why the comparison...I agree that coacing and blah blah blah must be changed, but that has to be changed whether we get bush or not...



[QUOTE=jerek] Bush is 20 lbs lighter than Sanders and is coming into the NFL averaging 15 carries a game. He is flashy, sure, but no one knows what the hell he is going to look like at the end of his first season. [QUOTE=jerek]

Since college is all we have to judge any of these players off of...what is your point..the same can be said about every player in the draft..



[QUOTE=jerek]we ought to trade the pick to bolster the rest of our roster.[QUOTE=jerek]
That argument sounds like the one of impatience...Bush is a rare talent...we can bolster with role players later...Im talking about drafting a star...not some player that can come in and be "good"...There is plenty of time for that..I don't see a superbowl in the Texans near future so why such the rush...


[QUOTE=jerek]Great talent, but don't reserve his HOF seat just yet. He hasn't played a down in the NFL, remember[QUOTE=jerek]

Now you are going off on a rampage


xtruroyaltyx it seems like you are one of the few sane people on this board:brickwall

gg no re
12-29-2005, 01:39 AM
I have two dogs. One dog, I haven't fed for four days. Another dog, I just fed this morning. I SHOULD feed my four-day starving dog, but instead, I will feed my other dog again.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: The starving dog cannibalizes the other.


I am building a house. The roof is pretty bad, but the kitchen is decent. I think I will look to improve the kitchen instead of fixing the roof.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: The roof collapses, so I have that to fix as well.


I'm in school. I'm failing in Math, but I'm making good marks in History. I think I will devote all of my time to studying for History to achieve higher marks.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: My transcript looks better with an A and an F, rather than a B and a C.


I have a car. My radiator is broken, and my engine is a V6. I'm going to change out my V6 for a V8, and get my radiator fixed at another time.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: My friends are really impressed at my V8. They still ask why my car won't work though.


My turkey is almost done, and I just started cooking some vegetables. I decide to risk the turkey being burnt and tasting bad and focus my attention on the vegetables.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: The turkey turned out to be burnt. The vegetables tasted awesome, though.


I need to go look for a job, but I got this video game I have to beat. I put off my job search and decide to finish the game over the week.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: I beat the game, but I missed out on this one cool job.


My father could get a heart attack at any moment, but going out to the bar and picking up chicks holds higher priority.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: Gentleman never kiss-and-tell, although my dad did have a heart attack.


With my three questions, I ask the Kwik-E-Mart owner, "Are you really the owner of Kwik-E-Mart? Really? Really?!" instead of "Can my friend get his job back?"

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: My friend saved the life of James Woods. Pretty cool.


The pot calls the kettle black.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: The pot is silver, and the kettle presses racial discrimination accusations.


The Texans haven't invested a 1st rounder in the line for the last four years, and it looks ugly. The Texans haven't invested a 1st rounder in the RB for the last four years, and things turned out pretty cool. They should draft a RB with the first round pick this year.

THINGS TURN OUT FOR THE BEST: We all put our hopes on the new oline coach to work a miracle. In other news, Bush helped me win my fantasy football league.

Carr Bombed
12-29-2005, 02:16 AM
I think you are about to aproach paralysis by analysis. Although ditching your dad to score, hey we've all been there.

Anyways, Back to texans football and not the roof, Davis is having knee surgery and hasn't played a full season in his career and we have a undeniable losing record when he has a big game. I wouldn't exactley say he's not upgradable. As for the Oline, I guess we have only 1 pick in the draft so lets see, hmm ethier bush or Oline, bush or Oline, wait a second! we have atleast 8 or 9 picks and this is the deepest draft in recent memory with oline players. So no its not about picking between two starving dogs. Its about feeding the sick dog that can't stay healthy and catching Alpo on sale at the local walmart (since again this is a DEEP DRAFT and there isn't much drop off in talent on the oline.)

tulexan
12-29-2005, 09:37 AM
We lost games because AJ and DD can't put the ball in th endzone. Touchdowns are what wins games and we aren't scoring them.

MorKnolle
12-29-2005, 10:04 AM
We lost games this year because our defense can't keep the opposing teams out of the end zone and our offensive playcalling for the majority of the year has been 60% predictable running plays, 35% short hitch routes, and 5% (probably not even that high) good passing plays that open the field and put up yards and points. Look what happened last week (against a very good defense) when we finally started looking up field, we had our two longest passes of the year (both 50+ yard TDs), another 33 yard pass to Butterfingers Bradford (who finally decided to catch some passes and try to keep his job for next year) and had three other deep routes to AJ that should have been TDs, one that Carr threw a little too far outside, one that AJ should have had if had jumped for it, and another that was overthrown by a couple yards after AJ was grabbed and slowed down by the DB. You can't tell me Bush would have done any better on those 1 yard hitch routes than AJ did or that running a check-down running play to the left side or the infamous fake reverse three times a possession would have yielded any more success with Bush carrying the ball.

People on here keep mentioning that it is a deep draft for OL so we should draft Bush and get OL help later. I must admit I had originally been a fan of this strategy and can definitely see its merit, but at the same time I personally believe we need at least two if not three new starting-quality OL to come in next year, and will need another one after next season when Wiegert leaves. There are only two OL that would be an upgrade over what we have and who are currently scheduled to be free agents at the end of this year: Steve Hutchinson and LeCharles Bentley. Both of these are interior OL and I don't see us being able to get Hutchinson, although I think we have a decent chance at Bentley, so I think we can only count on getting one worthy OL in free agency. To me, having Bush and all these linemen in the draft are an excellent set up for us to improve our offense for many years, many teams will be looking to trade up for Bush so we can acquire several extra picks and/or some veteran defensive help. There are a couple top-end OT that will be gone by the mid 1st round, we can trade down and pick one of them up to start at RT and be the future LT of our team, and with the extra picks we get we can get one or two more good interior linemen in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds and still look for some help on defense. We need more than one 2nd round-quality OL in this offseason, and as it has been pointed out several times in various discussion threads, the vast majority of starting LTs in the league, especially the good ones, are taken in the 1st round, and most of the good OL that will be available in the 2nd round or after in this draft would be interior linemen. I think the Texans have an opportunity to pick up their stud future LT in the 1st round, and then use a 2nd and a 3rd rounder on interior OL (if we can sign Bentley then we don't need to use the 3rd rounder on an OL), and by trading the #1 pick away we can add extra 2nd and 3rd round picks to maybe get a TE or defensive players that will come in and help us next year. I would not be upset if we drafted Reggie Bush, he is a very talented athlete, although I'm not sold on him being a franchise RB and I am quite happy with our combination of Davis, Wells, and Morency although I'd like to see them used more effectively by our coaches. My point is, many people are saying since there are so many OL in this draft that we can afford to get Bush and draft an OLineman later, and I can understand this approach, but I think we need multiple good OLinemen and we can get one in the 2nd round but I don't think we can expect to pick up another two good ones after the 2nd round, and I think we could trade the #1 pick away and use the picks from that trade alone to get 2-3 starting-quality OL to fix up our OL with a lot of young talent and turn that into one of our strengths that will cotnrol the trenches for our team for the next 10 years. Either way this is all contingent on us getting the #1 pick which is far from being a certain thing, so I'll leave it at this until Monday morning when we know where we stand.

tulexan
12-29-2005, 11:09 AM
You are right, it is a team sport, but when the players on your team can't get in the endzone and can't create separation then you are not going to win games.

The Bears have the best defense in the league, but they were struggling in every game until they got Rex Grossman back who can put points on the board.

Cincinnati has the 5th best runningback in the league with Rudi Johnson (12 touchdowns) and two good receivers with Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmandzadeh who have a combined 16 touchdowns.

Jacksonville, I have no idea how they are successful. I think it is partly due to them being a decent team in the second worst division in the league.

Denver has a speedy Tatum Bell who is a very important aspect of their offense. He has only a hundred yards less than DD, yet on 70 less carries, and he has more touchdowns. The 1-2 punch of Anderson and Bell is one of the best in the league.

Patriots are the Patriots. They have a genius for a coach and are the best run team in the NFL.

Like you said, the Colts are loaded, and having multiple playmakers is a reason why their offense is so open. Do you want to stop Marvin, Reggie, Edgerrin, or Dallas? An addition of Reggie Bush could give us a poor man's Colts because we will have the weapons of Bush, Davis, Johnson, and hopefully Joppru eventually.

Giants are successful because of their "smallish back" who has had over 2000 total yards the past two seasons along with 15 and 10 touchdowns respectively, they have a big time receiver with Plaxico Burress, a big time TE with Jeremy Shockey, and a good second receiver with Amani Toomer.

I happen to believe that we need more offensive weapons on our team. Besides Andre Johnson, we have no one who demands the attention of multiple defenders. Teams try to shut down Andre and make our other players beat them, and we are not doing it. Domanick can nickle and dime us down the field, yet once we get into the redzone he appears on milk cartons and flyers across the town. We need a player who can spread the field and force the defenses to be honest. I think Bush could be that player to open up our offense and help our team play better.

swtbound07
12-29-2005, 12:52 PM
i respectfully disagree on the tecmo bowl point. The new york giants were far and away the best team on super tecmo bowl. They had 3 solid recievers (ingram, baker, bavaro) 2 of the best running backs (meggett, anderson,) the one of the best return men (meggett), and hands down the best defensive player on the game Lawrence Taylor. You could block extra points with LT, and get about 100 sacks a season....plus the flea flicker was indefensible as a play


no love for the thread jacking?

MorKnolle
12-29-2005, 02:51 PM
You are right, it is a team sport, but when the players on your team can't get in the endzone and can't create separation then you are not going to win games.

The Bears have the best defense in the league, but they were struggling in every game until they got Rex Grossman back who can put points on the board.

Cincinnati has the 5th best runningback in the league with Rudi Johnson (12 touchdowns) and two good receivers with Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmandzadeh who have a combined 16 touchdowns.

Jacksonville, I have no idea how they are successful. I think it is partly due to them being a decent team in the second worst division in the league.

Denver has a speedy Tatum Bell who is a very important aspect of their offense. He has only a hundred yards less than DD, yet on 70 less carries, and he has more touchdowns. The 1-2 punch of Anderson and Bell is one of the best in the league.

Patriots are the Patriots. They have a genius for a coach and are the best run team in the NFL.

Like you said, the Colts are loaded, and having multiple playmakers is a reason why their offense is so open. Do you want to stop Marvin, Reggie, Edgerrin, or Dallas? An addition of Reggie Bush could give us a poor man's Colts because we will have the weapons of Bush, Davis, Johnson, and hopefully Joppru eventually.

Giants are successful because of their "smallish back" who has had over 2000 total yards the past two seasons along with 15 and 10 touchdowns respectively, they have a big time receiver with Plaxico Burress, a big time TE with Jeremy Shockey, and a good second receiver with Amani Toomer.

I happen to believe that we need more offensive weapons on our team. Besides Andre Johnson, we have no one who demands the attention of multiple defenders. Teams try to shut down Andre and make our other players beat them, and we are not doing it. Domanick can nickle and dime us down the field, yet once we get into the redzone he appears on milk cartons and flyers across the town. We need a player who can spread the field and force the defenses to be honest. I think Bush could be that player to open up our offense and help our team play better.

I understand the allure of Reggie Bush and I wish there was a more feasible way for him to join our team. I agree that our current offense has been horrible, but I think the majority of that has been our coaching and playcalling and that we do have enough weapons in place to be an upper echelon offense in this league. Jerome Mathis is emerging as a player and once he becomes a better WR (experience and better coaching are a key to this) he gives us another burner of a WR that will take attention off of Andre and will be a threat. I think Gaffney is a very capable possession WR but we don't use him right. He's not fast, but he runs routes well, finds a way to get open, and he has great hands. I think he can be as good as Amani Toomer of the Giants if given the appropriate opportunity. I think the thing that sets all of those aforementioned offenses apart is a solid offensive line that we don't have, and then competent coaching, both from a playcalling and player development perspective. I think that bringing in a new OC and system can do worlds of good for our offense and bringing in 2-3 new starting OLinemen will complete our offense and by the later part of next season when the players, coaches, and system are finally gelling together, we will have one of the great offenses in the NFL. I admit it would be nice to add another guy like Bush in there, but I think we have competent skill players in there now and the biggest pieces to fixing the problem is in the OLine and the coaches. The coaching we can fix (hopefully) regardless of what happens in the draft and free agency, but I think the best thing for the offense in terms of players would be to concentrate on fixing our OLine through free agency (LeCharles Bentley) and the draft (Eric Winston in the 1st, Davin Joseph/David Thomas/Marcus McNeil in the 2nd the best of whoever falls to us, and maybe another interior OLineman in the 3rd to replace Wiegert in a year). Our defense also clearly needs help but by trading the #1 pick (assuming we get it) we can acquire the picks to get our 2-3 OLinemen and still have all of our original picks to go after defensive players. Anyone would be a fool for saying they wouldn't want Bush on their team, but I honestly believe this is the best scenario for our team.

Honoring Earl 34
12-29-2005, 04:00 PM
:redtowel: What happens if we get the first pick and nobody will give us a good trade . Reggie 's hit the 4.27 for the 40 yd dash at 205 lbs and the best we can get is trade 1st and a 3rd .

The key player for trade bait is Leinert and if his stock does'nt rise we have a dilema .

What happens if Bush grades out a 10 and Dbrick is a 8.5 or Hawks a 9.0 ?

Jack Bauer
12-29-2005, 04:50 PM
Unless we get 2 number ones (how it breaks out this year/next year, I don't care, at least one needs to be top 10) and two number twos, you don't do the deal.

We are not going to get fair value for this pick unless someone goes Ditka.

Sooooo, I predict Bush becomes a Texan!

tulexan
12-29-2005, 07:27 PM
I don't know if Gaffney is as good as Toomer. Before Burress, Toomer was the #1 and was consistently putting up 1,000 yards per season. The closest that Gaffney has been to 1,000 is 600 last year and the most touchdowns he has ever caught in a season is 2. Gaffney is at best a #3 receiver.

gg no re
12-29-2005, 09:18 PM
To be fair to Gaffney, Toomer wasn't playing in an offense where the call was "Dive up the middle" every other play.

MorKnolle
12-29-2005, 10:31 PM
To be fair to Gaffney, Toomer wasn't playing in an offense where the call was "Dive up the middle" every other play.

I agree, I think Gaffney can be a very good possession receiver if we'd put him in routes that he can be successful and actually look to throw him the ball.

Unless we get 2 number ones (how it breaks out this year/next year, I don't care, at least one needs to be top 10) and two number twos, you don't do the deal.

We are not going to get fair value for this pick unless someone goes Ditka.

Sooooo, I predict Bush becomes a Texan!

Don't count on getting an extra 1st rounder and two 2nd rounders in addition to exchanging 1st round picks this year. According to the draft value chart that wouldn't be close to equal value unless the team we're trading with is pretty far down in the draft. Granted Bush will likely draw a bigger ransom than the chart would suggest, but I still wouldn't expect to get this much for him, and either way as long as we can get a reasonable offer I expect us to trade, assuming we even get the #1 pick.

:redtowel: What happens if we get the first pick and nobody will give us a good trade . Reggie 's hit the 4.27 for the 40 yd dash at 205 lbs and the best we can get is trade 1st and a 3rd .

The key player for trade bait is Leinert and if his stock does'nt rise we have a dilema .

What happens if Bush grades out a 10 and Dbrick is a 8.5 or Hawks a 9.0 ?

When has Bush ever run a 4.27 and when has he ever weighed 205 lbs or are you speculating that's what he'll do at the draft combine?

Goldeagle
12-29-2005, 11:12 PM
He is only one guy and he is as of right now HYPE! Personally with the way he runs I am expecting his MCL,/ACL to be blown half way across the field.

He wont block, (something we need), he wont make open field tackles (something that we need), he cant cover the deep route (which we need) and he cant sack the QB (something we need).

O-Line: We have all known we have needed one since like game 3 of our start
Linebackers: we need legit ILB and good OLBs who can come off a block
Safeties: we need someone with speed and who does not miss open field tackles.


Man, this Reggie Bush is God or Gale Sayers is almost out of control. I just dont see the need for him with Wells and Davis.

Draft him and we basically run the ball 35 times a game with a guy who carries it at the most 17 times and we pass 10 times. Of course when we pass 10, 2 are dropped, 5 sacks, and 3 completions.

What makes Reggie the "solid" next coming? Laurence Phillips, Ki Janna Carter, Rasaam Salaam, all were going to be THE BACK! Where are they now?

tulexan
12-29-2005, 11:17 PM
Actually Reggie is a pretty good blocker and picks up the blitz better than any other back in the draft.

texan279
12-29-2005, 11:17 PM
He is only one guy and he is as of right now HYPE! Personally with the way he runs I am expecting his MCL,/ACL to be blown half way across the field.

He wont block, (something we need), he wont make open field tackles (something that we need), he cant cover the deep route (which we need) and he cant sack the QB (something we need).

O-Line: We have all known we have needed one since like game 3 of our start
Linebackers: we need legit ILB and good OLBs who can come off a block
Safeties: we need someone with speed and who does not miss open field tackles.


Man, this Reggie Bush is God or Gale Sayers is almost out of control. I just dont see the need for him with Wells and Davis.

Draft him and we basically run the ball 35 times a game with a guy who carries it at the most 17 times and we pass 10 times. Of course when we pass 10, 2 are dropped, 5 sacks, and 3 completions.

What makes Reggie the "solid" next coming? Laurence Phillips, Ki Janna Carter, Rasaam Salaam, all were going to be THE BACK! Where are they now?



Post of the year right there! I think there are 4 of us on the board that agree on this subject. If we win this this weekend, we can forget about Bush anyway, and if we lose, the 1st pick gives us all the power in the draft. If we ended up with the 1st pick, we could trade down and load up bigtime on some picks.

texan279
12-29-2005, 11:18 PM
Actually Reggie is a pretty good blocker and picks up the blitz better than any other back in the draft.

Can he run between the tackles? Can he handle the rock 25-30 times a game at the NFL level?

Goldeagle
12-29-2005, 11:19 PM
I dont mean to come across as militant about it, I am just tired of hearing so much about 1 guy!

I have yet to see him pick up a blitz though so I will be watching Vs. Texas.

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2005, 11:20 PM
merged with another Reggie Bush thread...no new ground

Goldeagle
12-29-2005, 11:27 PM
Ok, you might want to send me a message or something

David's Busted Carr
12-29-2005, 11:41 PM
I have two words...Barry Sanders.

Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.

My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.

The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.:twocents:

This is a stupid post. Yes the Texans are a bad team, yes they need more than one player. But why would you not take THE BEST PLAYER avaliable? You mean to tell me he will not help this team? You have the opportunity to take a "once in a generation prospect" you JUMP on it. Worry about your OL and other positions with the rest of the draft. We will have 4 of the top 70 picks in this draft. Don't tell me you can't get at least 1 STUD OL, and whatever other positions you need with the other 3 picks. And maybe you get lucky with a day 2 pick also...

By your rational, the Bulls should have passed on Michael Jordan because they didn't need a guard... just ask the team who drafted Sam Bowie how he worked out for them.....

gg no re
12-29-2005, 11:42 PM
The Rockets passed on Michael Jordan, didn't they?

tulexan
12-29-2005, 11:44 PM
Can he run between the tackles? Can he handle the rock 25-30 times a game at the NFL level?


How many backs carry the ball 400-480 times per season? It has happened 3 times in the modern era. Jamal Anderson in 1998 with 410 carries, James Wilder in 1987 with 407 carries, and Eric Dickerson in 1986 with 404 carries.

No one carries the ball 25-30 times every game. Now if you are asking if he can carry the ball 25-30 times in a game, of course he can. He may not be as big as Shaun Alexander or Rudi Johnson, but he is bigger than Tiki Barber, who has carried the ball over 25 times 4 times this season and over 20 times 10 times this season.

And yes Reggie can run between the tackles. He has done it many times this season. If you have watched him play in games rather than highlights you would see this.

tulexan
12-29-2005, 11:45 PM
The Rockets passed on Michael Jordan, didn't they?

Didn't the Rockets get that other guy? What was his name? Oh yeah, Hakeen Olajuwan, one of the best centers of all time.

gg no re
12-29-2005, 11:47 PM
Didn't the Rockets get that other guy? What was his name? Oh yeah, Hakeen Olajuwan, one of the best centers of all time.Thus, you have proved that the thought of "taking the BPA" is not neccessary.

tulexan
12-29-2005, 11:59 PM
Hakeem was the best player in the draft at the time

gg no re
12-30-2005, 12:03 AM
But you didn't specify that.

tulexan
12-30-2005, 12:10 AM
How did I not specify that? If he was the #1 prospect going into the draft and the Rockets picked him with the first pick, they picked the best player available.

Carr Bombed
12-30-2005, 12:11 AM
yeah a center beats out a guard everytime. the rockets made the right choice, and I'm glad how things turned out in the long run. The western conference was stacked and still is hakeem was able to put a entire team on his back and carry them. I still find it kinda funny how when the "best centers of all time" discusion is brought up he is often left on the outside. It reminds me of "the best pichers" conversations, nolan is often not even mentioned, because he played on sorry teams. To this day I have no problem saying Hakeem was probably the most COMPLETE center of all time. He was arguable the best both offensively and deffensively.

the only thing I regret is that jordan retired during the two years we won, I would of loved to see us take him down, and I believe we would of.

Huge
12-30-2005, 12:11 AM
Hakeem was the best player in the draft at the time
No he wasn't. Jordan was and everbody knew it.

Houston took Hakeem because it's always smarter to have a good big man than a great small man in the NBA. Being the hometown product just made it sweeter.

Portland passed on Jordan because they already had Clyde and they also wanted a good big man (Bowie).

gg no re
12-30-2005, 12:16 AM
Didn't the Rockets get that other guy? What was his name? Oh yeah, Hakeen Olajuwan, one of the best centers of all time.I don't see "BPA" anywhere in that post.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 12:27 AM
:tv: I believe Bush is listed at 5'11 and 200 lbs . I 've read where he's run below a 4.3 forty . All players show up bigger faster stronger for their pre draft workouts .

Jordan was the college player of the year when he entered the NBA draft .

Huge
12-30-2005, 12:29 AM
If size and 40 times mattered, we never would've heard of Emmitt Smith.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 12:35 AM
:redtowel: If your talking about hiping a player and getting the most in a trade ... it matters alot . Millions are made and lost at those workouts .

Huge
12-30-2005, 12:45 AM
So if Bush checks in 1" taller and 10 lbs heavier the team holding the top pick might be able to snag an extra 4th rounder for him?

Not likely.

Carr Bombed
12-30-2005, 01:06 AM
So if Bush checks in 1" taller and 10 lbs heavier the team holding the top pick might be able to snag an extra 4th rounder for him?

Not likely.The sad thing is that, that is true, if bush was 1 inch taller and 10 pounds heavier people wouldn't be questioning his durability issues. The draft is all about numbers and the better the numbers the more money you make, or in this case the more your worth, like a extra 4th round pick

Huge
12-30-2005, 01:14 AM
Carnell Williams was drafted ahead of Cedric Benson.

Cedric is bigger and displayed a ton of durability in college.

If durability was related to size, Warrick Dunn wouldn't have a job in this league. It's a misconception that's used way too much.

Scooter
12-30-2005, 01:25 AM
nevermind

Carr Bombed
12-30-2005, 01:34 AM
Carnell Williams was drafted ahead of Cedric Benson.

Cedric is bigger and displayed a ton of durability in college.

If durability was related to size, Warrick Dunn wouldn't have a job in this league. It's a misconception that's used way too much.
thats not necessarily true, you have to look at the team that drafted caddilac, which was a WEST COAST OFFENSE. They felt Caddilac was the best fit for that team and he is proving they were right. Cedric wasn't half the receiving threat he was (wich you have to be to be a WEST COAST RUNNING BACK) and also this has nothing to do with size, Cedric unfairly had a precursor over his head of being linked to Ricky williams (and nothing will crash your draft status liked being linked to that guy, especially last year) and although he has great power I never thought he had the "game" speed to succeed at the pro level. As far as Dunn, that has absolutly nothing to do with the draft, (atleast not with top draft prospects) he has proven that he belongs, but wasn't a highly sought after pick like bush. Also with cedric people were afraid he had to many miles and carried the ball to much, he certainly didn't do himself any favors by starting off his pro career with a injury that sent him out for the season, also Cedric didn't have the speed. Like I said size and speed. I never thought Cedric was going to be a great pro. Having said that about Dunn, Players who are taller and carry more weight and can still move at elite speed are ALWAYS going to command more attention in the draft. If you want a great example of this than just look at matt jones. He never played his posistion before yet people say a 6 foot somthing guy who ran a 4.3 and he was immediatly bumped into the first round. All people care about in the draft are numbers and the higher the numbers the higher the hype and the higher the draft selection or the more they are worth like a extra 4th round selection

beerlover
12-30-2005, 02:09 AM
Carnell Williams was drafted ahead of Cedric Benson.

Cedric is bigger and displayed a ton of durability in college.

thats funny, I thought Benson was drafted ahead of Carnell Williams :brickwall

and as far as durability look who is carrying the load for his team now :rolleyes:

YoungTexanFan
12-30-2005, 02:14 AM
thats funny, I thought Benson was drafted ahead of Carnell Williams :brickwall

and as far as durability look who is carrying the load for his team now :rolleyes:

RB order from last year: Ronnie Brown, Benson, Caddie. 2,4,5 respectivly.

Waltman
12-30-2005, 07:29 AM
Our secondary is young and inconsistant, our pass rush is weak (with the exception of the last few games), our pass protection is terrible, our conservitive play calling is ticking me off, and there's no way that all of these things will get fixed from this draft. It's about building a great unit. This is our chance to get the most outstanding player in the draft and we are going to pass him up in hope of a miracle. The o-line will get there in due time, but there's alot more problems than the o-line.:texflag:




:penalty: what do you mean holding

MorKnolle
12-30-2005, 09:27 AM
How many backs carry the ball 400-480 times per season? It has happened 3 times in the modern era. Jamal Anderson in 1998 with 410 carries, James Wilder in 1987 with 407 carries, and Eric Dickerson in 1986 with 404 carries.

No one carries the ball 25-30 times every game. Now if you are asking if he can carry the ball 25-30 times in a game, of course he can. He may not be as big as Shaun Alexander or Rudi Johnson, but he is bigger than Tiki Barber, who has carried the ball over 25 times 4 times this season and over 20 times 10 times this season.

And yes Reggie can run between the tackles. He has done it many times this season. If you have watched him play in games rather than highlights you would see this.

Bush is 6-0, 200
Barber is 5-10, 200

Being two inches taller and weighing the same amount is not really considered being bigger. Yes he is taller but it means he is of slighter build.

No he wasn't. Jordan was and everbody knew it.

Houston took Hakeem because it's always smarter to have a good big man than a great small man in the NBA. Being the hometown product just made it sweeter.

Portland passed on Jordan because they already had Clyde and they also wanted a good big man (Bowie).

Hakeem was actually considered by most to be the best player in the draft, Jordan was the best athlete and possibly had the most potential but Hakeem was considered the better player at the time. Houston also already had Ralph Sampson at center and decided to try the twin towers experiment that never really worked out for them. As for Portland, I understand looking for a big man, but Sam Bowie? Having Clyde and MJ together would have been just sick.

Carnell Williams was drafted ahead of Cedric Benson.

Cedric is bigger and displayed a ton of durability in college.

If durability was related to size, Warrick Dunn wouldn't have a job in this league. It's a misconception that's used way too much.

Benson was drafted at #4 and Cadillac was drafted at #5. Ronnie Brown went at #2 if that's who you were thinking of. As a side note I was hoping Benson would go #2 to Miami and have the two Texas RBs sharing the spotlight over there. The Heisman winner that quit on his team and the man who was supposed to replace him in college and the NFL would have made for an interesting combo.

tulexan
12-30-2005, 09:46 AM
Jordan was the college player of the year when he entered the NBA draft .


Being college player of the year is irrelevant. Jameer Nelson was college player of the year in 2004 but he was picked much lower than Emeka Okafor who was picked #1.

MorKnolle
12-30-2005, 09:58 AM
Being college player of the year is irrelevant. Jameer Nelson was college player of the year in 2004 but he was picked much lower than Emeka Okafor who was picked #1.

Then apparently winning the Heisman is irrelevant too. Anyways, let's get back to football discussions rather than college basketball.

tulexan
12-30-2005, 10:00 AM
Winning the Heisman is irrelevant because college success doesn't necessarily translate to professional success.

By the way, if Reggie Bush is saying that he is rooting for the Niners this week, does that mean that he wants to come to the Texans?

Huge
12-30-2005, 10:08 AM
thats not necessarily true, you have to look at the team that drafted caddilac, which was a WEST COAST OFFENSE. They felt Caddilac was the best fit for that team and he is proving they were right. Cedric wasn't half the receiving threat he was (wich you have to be to be a WEST COAST RUNNING BACK) and also this has nothing to do with size, Cedric unfairly had a precursor over his head of being linked to Ricky williams (and nothing will crash your draft status liked being linked to that guy, especially last year) and although he has great power I never thought he had the "game" speed to succeed at the pro level. As far as Dunn, that has absolutly nothing to do with the draft, (atleast not with top draft prospects) he has proven that he belongs, but wasn't a highly sought after pick like bush. Also with cedric people were afraid he had to many miles and carried the ball to much, he certainly didn't do himself any favors by starting off his pro career with a injury that sent him out for the season, also Cedric didn't have the speed. Like I said size and speed. I never thought Cedric was going to be a great pro. Having said that about Dunn, Players who are taller and carry more weight and can still move at elite speed are ALWAYS going to command more attention in the draft. If you want a great example of this than just look at matt jones. He never played his posistion before yet people say a 6 foot somthing guy who ran a 4.3 and he was immediatly bumped into the first round. All people care about in the draft are numbers and the higher the numbers the higher the hype and the higher the draft selection or the more they are worth like a extra 4th round selection
Bottom line is this, nobody is going to care if Bush shows up at 5'11, 195 instead of his listed 6'0, 200. If a bigger, stronger, faster RB shows up at the Combine that came out of nowhere, do you think he'd be picked over Bush?

thats funny, I thought Benson was drafted ahead of Carnell Williams

and as far as durability look who is carrying the load for his team now
Huge = http://www.nfl-fans.com/html/emoticons/dunce.gif

But good point about the durability. Williams is still playing. Benson is on the sidelines...despite being the bigger RB.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 10:29 AM
:twocents: If Bush shows up at 210 and runs a 4.27 ... the NFL people will pee all over themselves . If he shows up at 195 and runs a 4.27 then they'll question his durability .

There is no way Bush shows up under 205 . Going with this train of thought I bet DBrick shows up at 310 .

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 10:35 AM
If Bush runs a 4.27 it wont matter how big he is. someone will find a spot for him. I doubt he runs that fast. I mean the kid is fast, but 4.27 is mathis, deion, daryl green type speed. I have seen these guys run first hand and have seen Reggie run he is not as fast as either of them. He is quick from side to side though so maybe he will put up a phenominal Shuttle. I doubt he works out much though the top picks usually dont, even though ronnie Brown and Caddy did and it shot them up the charts.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 10:43 AM
:redtowel: I read where Reggie was the third fastest sprinter in California his senior year . Thats being a part time track guy .

I think with Bush its a no brainer he's fast . The thought was 5 lbs or sub 4.3s mean a ton . Stanford Routt hit a sub 4.3 last year and went from a possible free agent to a 2nd round pick .

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 10:48 AM
OK earl so you are saying he will add lbs. and run int the low 4.3s. I got ya now. I thought your were saying he was as fast as the guys I listed above.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 11:05 AM
:tv: No , Reggies fast with great vision . He's not in the elite speed group but he's in the next class .

What was Derrick Johnson's playing weight at Texas and his combine weight ? I think it went from 235 to 242 , while running a 4.5 .

I bet if DBrick shows up at 315 and pumps 225 about 25 times and is still nimble he will be the # 2 on paper prospect .

MorKnolle
12-30-2005, 11:08 AM
:tv: No , Reggies fast with great vision . He's not in the elite speed group but he's in the next class .

What was Derrick Johnson's playing weight at Texas and his combine weight ? I think it went from 235 to 242 , while running a 4.5 .

I bet if DBrick shows up at 315 and pumps 225 about 25 times and is still nimble he will be the # 2 on paper prospect .

I hope an OLineman will get more than 25 reps in the bench press, that's not a whole lot for a stud OLineman, and I seriously doubt he can show up at 315 but we'll have to wait and see.

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 11:14 AM
Mork I aggree. A stud O-linemen better give me more than 25 reps, hell some safeties put that up. Braylon Edwards and Roy Williams(WR) put up close to that. I expect D'Brick to give me 28-32. I doubt he gains 25lbs before the combine though. the guy is only 290 right now and it was said he had even gone down to 285. That is alot of weight to put on in a short time and still be able to do the things he can do. I put on 15lbs of muscle once and it reduced my speed some, so I would think it would do the same to him.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2005, 11:24 AM
:tv: Alex Barron did 225 lbs 19 times , Khalif Barnes did 225 lbs 26 times . Tony Mandritch put on 25 lbs of muscle easily .

Texas_Thrill
12-30-2005, 11:45 AM
Tony Mandrich? Of all people to cite you pick him. BAD BAD CHOICE.

I wonder how much DBrick effects our running game since I keep hearing he's way better at pass blocking than at run blocking. I mean does that mean he's just average? Can he not clear the way? I wonder and at only 285 there some DE who are as big as him unless of course we zone block our lives away.

stevo3883
12-30-2005, 12:11 PM
Tony Mandrich? Of all people to cite you pick him. BAD BAD CHOICE.

I wonder how much DBrick effects our running game since I keep hearing he's way better at pass blocking than at run blocking. I mean does that mean he's just average? Can he not clear the way? I wonder and at only 285 there some DE who are as big as him unless of course we zone block our lives away.


Dbrick isnt some shutdown blocker. Darryl Tapp had a field day against him earlier this season.

We need to realize the guy is no Pace, most of his hype is off of "potential" because he is the right build for a franchise LT. but the fact is he hasnt played nearly to the level of a top 3 pick this season. we'd be drafting off of potential, which means we're going to have to wait a few years to see any good results.

Coach C.
12-30-2005, 01:10 PM
Stevo I think, yeah this is one of the first times I have agreed with you and damnit you make a sweet point. You obviously have been watching games and not going on hype even though I think you are a Bush supporter not sure on that so dont eat my lunch if you are not. D'Brick is solid, but Virginia does not run to his side because he is not overly good at Run blocking. He also lacks that nasty nature that the best OLs have. Right now in the game against Minnesota he is looking great except in runblocking.

Carr Bombed
12-30-2005, 01:19 PM
Bottom line is this, nobody is going to care if Bush shows up at 5'11, 195 instead of his listed 6'0, 200. If a bigger, stronger, faster RB shows up at the Combine that came out of nowhere, do you think he'd be picked over Bush? Ah no, we were talking about trade value? I was simply saying that if a player has special numbers, size, speed, ect. It drives up the asking price, like a extra 4th rounder.

MorKnolle
12-30-2005, 02:02 PM
:tv: Alex Barron did 225 lbs 19 times , Khalif Barnes did 225 lbs 26 times . Tony Mandritch put on 25 lbs of muscle easily .

Some people can do it, but Ferguson has a history of having problems keeping weight on (dropped to 260 or 265 last year), so I don't see him being able to add 25-30 pounds in two months. I can't imagine Barron only did 19 reps unless he wasn't really trying hard at the combine and knew he could do better for individual workouts. Either way, 25 reps for an OL is not impressive to me, I'd want to see at least 30 out of someone who is supposed to be our stud OT to anchor our line around.

tulexan
12-30-2005, 03:23 PM
D'Brick is solid, but Virginia does not run to his side because he is not overly good at Run blocking.

Does that mean that we won't be able to do our audible anymore if we pick him?

gg no re
12-30-2005, 03:38 PM
Who says the new regime will adopt that silly audible system?

I hope they won't.

Huge
12-30-2005, 04:16 PM
Ah no, we were talking about trade value? I was simply saying that if a player has special numbers, size, speed, ect. It drives up the asking price, like a extra 4th rounder.
I'm talking about a specific player's (Bush) trade value. When you're going to the be the top pick in the draft, your stock can't go much higher. Any team with a lick of sense is not going to offer an extra pick if he clocks a 40 .04 seconds faster than expected at 1" taller and 10 lbs heavier.

I realize "a player" can increase his value by improving his "stats".

swtbound07
12-30-2005, 04:24 PM
i heard that reggie bush can eat a rubix cube and poop it out solved :redtowel:

stevo3883
12-30-2005, 04:32 PM
i heard that reggie bush can eat a rubix cube and poop it out solved :redtowel:

its true, they even agreed to rename it a "reggie cube"

HJam72
12-31-2005, 07:55 PM
i heard that reggie bush can eat a rubix cube and poop it out solved :redtowel:

Actually, that's a shame because I heard he pooped solid gold chunks with diamond nuggets.

swtbound07
12-31-2005, 08:11 PM
can we call it a golden rubix cube and be square?

texrb
12-31-2005, 08:15 PM
You take the most gifted player...period. Had the Rockets followed this philosopy, we would have had Michael Jordan and the rest would have been history...period

swtbound07
12-31-2005, 08:23 PM
i doubt the rockets get any more championships with jordan then they did with olajuwon, unless they magically manifested scottie pippen and a legitimate center onto their roster soon after......

texrb
12-31-2005, 10:08 PM
i doubt the rockets get any more championships with jordan then they did with olajuwon, unless they magically manifested scottie pippen and a legitimate center onto their roster soon after......

Actually, it was Ralph Sampsom they chose over Jordan, so it would have been Olajuwon, Jordan, and, had they chosen correctly, Drexler instead of McCray, but I digress and should not use basketball analogies on a football subject.

If there is a potential superstar available, I do not think you should pass him up for several prospects; it is bad business. Take 1974 for example when the Oilers gave up Ed Jones for two whoevers. Don't trade an outside flush for two inside straights.

tulexan
12-31-2005, 10:11 PM
No they already had Sampson, they drafted Olajuwon #1 in 1984 and Jordan went #3 right after Sam Bowie.

texrb
12-31-2005, 10:39 PM
i doubt the rockets get any more championships with jordan then they did with olajuwon, unless they magically manifested scottie pippen and a legitimate center onto their roster soon after......

Sorry, you're right (and I am getting old). My philospy back then was that when Olajuwan became available, the Rockets might have considered trading Sampson to Portland (who needed a center and drafted Sam Bowie). For Sampson, the Rockets could have gotten a king's ransom including rights to Michael Jordan and whatever else Portland had to offer. Add that to Otis Thorpe, Drexler (instead of McCray) and the potential is impressive (on paper)...Anyway, that's basketball and I apologize for taking the subject off of the nfl draft.