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run-david-run
12-22-2005, 08:41 PM
Since this seems to be the major discusion on these boards, I figured I would start an analysis comparing what we know about Bush with what we know about DD and his abilities. The way I see it, break it down into several categories, so, here we go:

Vision : This is DD's biggest strength, most of his runs require patience and he does a very good job of developing his runs to get the most out of them. For Reggie, in the open field he is obviously very explosive and has an unparalleld cut-back ability, but between the tackles he rarely hs to "find" a hole. DD gets the edge between the tackles, Bush in the open field.

Power: Bush's most criticized weakness, he would rather go around people then through them. While DD is no Earl Campbell, he dosnt go down easly and ussually requires a couple of people to bring him down. DD wins this one.

Jukes: Obvioulsy this one goes to Bush, he is incredible in this regard. DD is no slouch, see the KC game, but this isnt close.

Blocking: DD is not a very accomplished blocker, Bush wins by default. Have not seen enough of him blocking to form a valid opinion.

Speed: Obvioulsy Bush takes this one.

Receiving: Both are accomplished receivers. Bush only has 2 catches of over 20 yards by the way. I think this is a tie because DD has proven he can catch most anything thrown at him. Bush is a solid slot receiver, that is credentials enough.

Fumbles: Both do a great of taking care of the ball, tie.

By my count its about 3-2 Bush, with two categories ennding in ties. Feel free to add anything on or challenge my opinion, just try to make it a real argument, and please, no draft trade down scenarios, just comapre the players. After all, even if we do draft Bush, there is no guarantee he will beat out DD...

Bubbajwp
12-22-2005, 09:30 PM
Bush is younger

Other than that I would just like to say that you should have ranked them one to ten. Because things like speed and jukes Bush is far better than DD and the categories you gave to bush their isnt as big of a difference.

Corrosion
12-22-2005, 09:52 PM
Ill keep this short and sweet .....


While I do think Bush is an Electrifying COLLEGE player .... DD is a proven NFL back and has put up very respectable numbers VS. NFL defenses .... NOT against the PAC 10 .:cool:

Bubbajwp
12-22-2005, 09:52 PM
Two words injury prone.

Mathis13
12-22-2005, 09:57 PM
Ill keep this short and sweet .....


While I do think Bush is an Electrifying COLLEGE player .... DD is a proven NFL back and has put up very respectable numbers VS. NFL defenses .... NOT against the PAC 10 .:cool:
Agreed. Also DD doesnt have a great O-Line in front of him. while Bush had one of the best

HeartofHouston
12-22-2005, 10:42 PM
my DD vs Bush breakdown.. Okay here we go.. Ratings are on the scale of 1-10..

----

Vision:
Both of these guys are strong in this area.. DD shows amazing patience in the running game and takes whatever the line gives him... Bush doesnt show as much patience as Davis but his reaction time to defenders is unearthly..

Rating:
Davis (7) and Bush (9)

----

Power:
Bush doesnt show power in his runs, he works off of raw speed and quickness, not much power running from him the years that I've been watching him.. as Run-David-Run stated.. DD is a powerful runner and fights for extra yards and keeps his legs moving at all times and constantly demands several people to bring him down.

Rating:
Davis (6) and Bush (2)
----

Jukes:
Ha Ha.. well Davis is no slouche in this department.. well not completely a bum, but his lack of quickness takes away from his Juking ability. Bush is one of the quickest and most agile RBs i've seen since Barry Sanders.. With Ankle Breaking Jukes he creates extra yards for himself..

Rating:
Davis (4) and Bush (10+)

----

Blocking:
Both of these guys are usually recievers out of the backfield (Bush in the slot) if they are not rushing the ball. Its very rare that you see either of them block and when they do i'm not really impressed with either.. so..

Rating:
Davis (4) and Bush (4)

----

Speed:
The last time I heard about Davis he was clocking a 4.6something and Bush 4.2somthing and it shows on the field Davis is constantly caught from behind by LBs and sometimes DL.. He's not very quick to turn the corner on sweeps plays. Bush well we've all seen what Bush can do once he gets into the second level (LB Level in simple terms).. Bush just outright blows by people.. and you it's EXTREMELY rare.. who am I kidding I've NEVER seen Bush caught from behind.. once he gets into the open field you might as well put up 6 points on the board..

Rating:
Davis (3) and Bush (10+)

----

Recieving:
Both are Reliable targets when they catch the ball.. DD displays soft hands and doesnt drop many.. however Davis is more of a dump the ball of and get 10 yards while Bush is a put him in the slot and watch somebody's DB get toasted. While both are good targets for the passing game Bush gets the advantage because of what he can do when he has the ball in his hands..

Davis (7) and Bush (10+)

----

Fumbles:
DD had some trouble last year but he's seems to have shaken that off.. and he's protecting the ball well this year and Bush is protecting the ball pretty well neither really gets the advantage here..

Rating:
Davis (6) and Bush (6)

----

Durablity/Workhorse:
DD gets injuried EVERY year and it very dissapointing.. he shared the load with Labrandon Toefield at LSU so he never got to carry a full load there and now he's the man and he's gotta get used to being #1.. Bush shares the load with LenDale White and hasnt really had the luxury of being the Workhorse so this one is a toss up..

Rating:
Davis (5) and Bush (5)

----

I think The President takes this competition.. His outright ability to make people look like *****s on the field puts him ahead of DD ability wise.. Cadillac Williams made a fool out of plenty of people in college and now he's up for offensive rookie of the year this year.. and i think that we can all agree that Reggie Bush is better than Caddy Williams.. BUT we never know how a rookie is gonna do but i believe that that.. Bush will be a better HB than DD just off of raw ability to make defenders miss and using his speed to run pass defenders and put points on the board.

stevo3883
12-22-2005, 11:30 PM
just an fyi on blocking, blitz pickup is one of bush's big strengths.

he is able to recognize and pick up the blitzers like a seasoned pro.

dont know how you "weren't impressed" with it.

Ryan
12-22-2005, 11:37 PM
my DD vs Bush breakdown.. Okay here we go.. Ratings are on the scale of 1-10..

----

Vision:
Both of these guys are strong in this area.. DD shows amazing patience in the running game and takes whatever the line gives him... Bush doesnt show as much patience as Davis but his reaction time to defenders is unearthly..

Rating:
Davis (7) and Bush (9)

----

Power:
Bush doesnt show power in his runs, he works off of raw speed and quickness, not much power running from him the years that I've been watching him.. as Run-David-Run stated.. DD is a powerful runner and fights for extra yards and keeps his legs moving at all times and constantly demands several people to bring him down.

Rating:
Davis (6) and Bush (2)
----

Jukes:
Ha Ha.. well Davis is no slouche in this department.. well not completely a bum, but his lack of quickness takes away from his Juking ability. Bush is one of the quickest and most agile RBs i've seen since Barry Sanders.. With Ankle Breaking Jukes he creates extra yards for himself..

Rating:
Davis (4) and Bush (10+)

----

Blocking:
Both of these guys are usually recievers out of the backfield (Bush in the slot) if they are not rushing the ball. Its very rare that you see either of them block and when they do i'm not really impressed with either.. so..

Rating:
Davis (4) and Bush (4)

----

Speed:
The last time I heard about Davis he was clocking a 4.6something and Bush 4.2somthing and it shows on the field Davis is constantly caught from behind by LBs and sometimes DL.. He's not very quick to turn the corner on sweeps plays. Bush well we've all seen what Bush can do once he gets into the second level (LB Level in simple terms).. Bush just outright blows by people.. and you it's EXTREMELY rare.. who am I kidding I've NEVER seen Bush caught from behind.. once he gets into the open field you might as well put up 6 points on the board..

Rating:
Davis (3) and Bush (10+)

----

Recieving:
Both are Reliable targets when they catch the ball.. DD displays soft hands and doesnt drop many.. however Davis is more of a dump the ball of and get 10 yards while Bush is a put him in the slot and watch somebody's DB get toasted. While both are good targets for the passing game Bush gets the advantage because of what he can do when he has the ball in his hands..

Davis (7) and Bush (10+)

----

Fumbles:
DD had some trouble last year but he's seems to have shaken that off.. and he's protecting the ball well this year and Bush is protecting the ball pretty well neither really gets the advantage here..

Rating:
Davis (6) and Bush (6)

----

Durablity/Workhorse:
DD gets injuried EVERY year and it very dissapointing.. he shared the load with Labrandon Toefield at LSU so he never got to carry a full load there and now he's the man and he's gotta get used to being #1.. Bush shares the load with LenDale White and hasnt really had the luxury of being the Workhorse so this one is a toss up..

Rating:
Davis (5) and Bush (5)

----

I think The President takes this competition.. His outright ability to make people look like *****s on the field puts him ahead of DD ability wise.. Cadillac Williams made a fool out of plenty of people in college and now he's up for offensive rookie of the year this year.. and i think that we can all agree that Reggie Bush is better than Caddy Williams.. BUT we never know how a rookie is gonna do but i believe that that.. Bush will be a better HB than DD just off of raw ability to make defenders miss and using his speed to run pass defenders and put points on the board.

In the words of the Washington State Head coach Bill Doba, " If you've got a linebacker covering him, you might as well start playing their fight song ".

DRAMA
12-23-2005, 12:16 AM
Look - STOP saying he's a college player! We do not draft players from our local dentist and doctors office. The ONLY place they can be drafted in the 'College' draft is from college.

Obviously, DD was drafted from 'college' and everybody looked at him and said, "Hmm...3rd down back. We'll take him later on today maybe."

Bush goes #1 even if SD, Seattle, Indy, KC even with Larry J....had the 1.

Let's stop trying to compare Bush to DD and for the love of Bob, STOP saying that he's only done this at college because any player that you think we should draft, you know what I'll say about him??

Exxxxxxactly!

Big B Texan Fan
12-23-2005, 12:27 AM
Ill keep this short and sweet .....


While I do think Bush is an Electrifying COLLEGE player .... DD is a proven NFL back and has put up very respectable numbers VS. NFL defenses .... NOT against the PAC 10 .:cool:
These posts drive me nuts. Of course DD has put up respectable #'s vs NFL defenses, HE PLAYS IN THE NFL. It's almost as though you forget that 99.9% of the players in the NFL once played in college. They cannot help it, it's practically the only way in. :homer: Dohhh!!!

Well, DD couldn't even barely crack the lineup as a starting RB, IN THE SEC. He's made a pretty good career. Now, let's look at a player that has had the starters role for quite some time. The odds say that he'll be pretty good.

Here's the problem I think. Most of you who don't think Bush is a good fit cuz we already got DD are probably envisioning Bush in this scheme. Remember, we'll more than likely have a new a coach by draft time or sooner (1/2/06:)). That new coach will more than likely have the brains to scheme around his talent instead of put his talent in his scheme. Bush will get used properly (if drafted).

Big B Texan Fan
12-23-2005, 12:33 AM
Look - STOP saying he's a college player! We do not draft players from our local dentist and doctors office. The ONLY place they can be drafted in the 'College' draft is from college.

Obviously, DD was drafted from 'college' and everybody looked at him and said, "Hmm...3rd down back. We'll take him later on today maybe."

Bush goes #1 even if SD, Seattle, Indy, KC even with Larry J....had the 1.

Let's stop trying to compare Bush to DD and for the love of Bob, STOP saying that he's only done this at college because any player that you think we should draft, you know what I'll say about him??

Exxxxxxactly!

My sentiments exxxxxxxxactly. I've been trying to tell these guys but they forget. Maybe if we only get players from NFL Europe or the Canadian League then some of the posters will be happy.

infantrycak
12-23-2005, 01:19 AM
Bush goes #1 even if SD, Seattle, Indy, KC even with Larry J....had the 1.

And all credibility went swirling down the drain.

run-david-run
12-23-2005, 01:29 AM
And all credibility went swirling down the drain.
yeah, that has to be one of the worst posts ever...

djkennedy101
12-23-2005, 07:48 AM
Ill keep this short and sweet .....


While I do think Bush is an Electrifying COLLEGE player .... DD is a proven NFL back and has put up very respectable numbers VS. NFL defenses .... NOT against the PAC 10 .:cool:

Amen Brother.......Keep DD he is gonna be a great one....watch and see!!!!:twocents:

Texas_Thrill
12-23-2005, 08:37 AM
Again I say what does his CONFERENCE have squat to do with anything?

You play against the level of competition you have in front of you. Bush has DOMINATED it.

If we are soooo concerned about conferences then why did we draft Davis who NEVER started. DIdn't get carries as a full-time back. The same things ya'll are fussing about Bush on were the same issues DAVIS had coming out of college.

Another thing do you realize if you just go on this incredibly dumb argument of what conference he played in you'd never draft the likes of

Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Doug Williams, Randy Moss. Just to name a few. :penalty:

Kaiser Toro
12-23-2005, 08:40 AM
Sounds like Bush will make a great back for some team other than the Texans.

HeartofHouston
12-23-2005, 09:20 AM
Sounds like Bush will make a great back for some team other than the Texans.

I'm sad to say you are right...

infantrycak
12-23-2005, 09:44 AM
If we are soooo concerned about conferences then why did we draft Davis who NEVER started. DIdn't get carries as a full-time back. The same things ya'll are fussing about Bush on were the same issues DAVIS had coming out of college.

Not that I am concerned about his conference, but the higher scrutiny and standard for Bush over Davis is pretty obvious IMO. DD was a 4th round pick and got league minimum for 2 years. Bush is going to go #1 and instantly be either the highest paid RB in the league or in the top 3. Yeah, the standard is higher.

PS--it is y'all, not ya'll.

djkennedy101
12-23-2005, 10:03 AM
Again I say what does his CONFERENCE have squat to do with anything?

You play against the level of competition you have in front of you. Bush has DOMINATED it.

If we are soooo concerned about conferences then why did we draft Davis who NEVER started. DIdn't get carries as a full-time back. The same things ya'll are fussing about Bush on were the same issues DAVIS had coming out of college.

Another thing do you realize if you just go on this incredibly dumb argument of what conference he played in you'd never draft the likes of

Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Doug Williams, Randy Moss. Just to name a few. :penalty:

Maybe you forgot this.....He shared time with other backs Toefield...and Addai....Was also the main kick and punt returner...Toefield is in the NFL....His last game in an LSU uniform he started(toefield was hurt)....Against Illinois in the Sugar Bowl, Davis totaled 122 yards rushing and a Sugar Bowl record 4 rushing touchdowns.
Illionois was 11-2 including the loss to LSU that year.....Givin the right oportunity...DD is gonna be great...Why take Bush when you allready have a proven NFL Back....WE need an O-line!!!!

Bubbajwp
12-23-2005, 10:14 AM
My biggest reason for drafting bush is his speed. I have watched DD get caught from behind to many times. On the same play Bush would have scored.

Coach C.
12-23-2005, 10:17 AM
I hate this argument. The fastest guys in the NFL get caught, because the speed and angles are adjusted. My thought is this Would Bush break the tackles that DD has to break to get to the second level and beyond. If you look at any game You will notice that Domanick is racking up YAC yards and not just huge holes he is running through.

Kaiser Toro
12-23-2005, 10:43 AM
I hate this argument. The fastest guys in the NFL get caught, because the speed and angles are adjusted. My thought is this Would Bush break the tackles that DD has to break to get to the second level and beyond. If you look at any game You will notice that Domanick is racking up YAC yards and not just huge holes he is running through.

Well that makes to much sense. There are not many on this board, I would surmise, that have ever been on a field, court or rink that truly understand how the game changes as you go up each level. Does this mean Bush is not the #1, not at all as I think he will, but to compare him to DD is asinine.

DRAMA
12-23-2005, 10:43 AM
And all credibility went swirling down the drain.

Well, I didn't see the 'toungue in cheek' icon on the side. I guess I'll have to start using the SARCASM icon again to make sure we're all clear? (Hi everyone, I'm 7 - make sure you notice my SARCASM icon so I'm not labeled a hater!) wow.

First off - Infantry - reeeeeeeelax. I want Bush - you don't. Doesn't mean my opinion and my credibility (And sarcastic wit :) ) are wrong, or as you say, have departed by way of urinal. Perhaps now that I've spoken in favor of Bush, we can close this thread as well?

Bush supporters had no idea that we hated DD and Carr as much until we heard Y'ALL tell us...over and over.

BTW - Emmitt Smith? Don't throw DD in there and look at his first 10 years in the league, realize how many fingers are on one hand - compare that to his games missed, and then compare DD to him again. I guess I'm a Texan hater because I said a Cowboy is a better RB? I love it - the 'hits' just keep on comin'.

(And the thread closes....) :(

DRAMA
12-23-2005, 10:55 AM
yeah, that has to be one of the worst posts ever...

Put your pom-poms away and stop cheering for another man. Geez.

infantrycak
12-23-2005, 11:17 AM
Well, I didn't see the 'toungue in cheek' icon on the side. I guess I'll have to start using the SARCASM icon again to make sure we're all clear? (Hi everyone, I'm 7 - make sure you notice my SARCASM icon so I'm not labeled a hater!) wow.

cough**BS--got caught being silly**cough

First off - Infantry - reeeeeeeelax. I want Bush - you don't.

Oops, wrong again--I have repeatedly said if the Texans get and keep the #1 pick they should take Bush. Try again.

Perhaps now that I've spoken in favor of Bush, we can close this thread as well?

Two responses--stay on topic for the thread and wah, my pee-pee hurts.

BTW - Emmitt Smith? Don't throw DD in there and look at his first 10 years in the league, realize how many fingers are on one hand - compare that to his games missed, and then compare DD to him again. I guess I'm a Texan hater because I said a Cowboy is a better RB? I love it - the 'hits' just keep on comin'.

Is this stream of consciousness or are you into the egg-nog a little early? You brought Emmitt (my favorite RB by the way so yet another oops on your part) into comparison with DD on injuries and posed a question which you obviously did not know the answer to. Sorry if you didn't like that the facts didn't match the point you were trying to make.

run-david-run
12-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Put your pom-poms away and stop cheering for another man. Geez.
Says the man campaining for Rggie Bush to come to our team... that seems like campagining to me!!! :brickwall

DRAMA
12-23-2005, 01:56 PM
cough**BS--got caught being silly**cough
Oops, wrong again--I have repeatedly said if the Texa...........ns get and keep th............e #1 pick they should take Bush. Try aga..........in.
Two ...........responses--stay............ on topic for the thread and wah, my pee-pee hurts.
Is this stream of consciou...............sness or are you into t..........he egg-nog a little early? You brought Emmitt (my favorite RB by the way so yet another oo..........ps on yo............ur part) into compari..............son with DD on injuries and posed a question which y.............ou obviously did not know the an............sw............er to. Sorry if you didn't like that the fa............cts did............n't match the point you were trying to make.

Oh, I get it - BS is short for the curse word - pretty cool. You write decent enough posts, I haven't been here for long - MUST I comment with an icon everytime something is subjectable? If so, maybe I should just run away - never to come back again. (Should I insert the sarcastic icon here?) Let me guess, if I say I'm sorry for not using the icon, will everything become better? If so, well then there now....

On Emmitt, I actually said do NOT compare DD to Emmitt...in defense of Emmitt to the guy who said that ES didn't run for 70 yard pops at a time.

1. - I didn't start the ES comparison.
2. - games mising stats for the 1st 10 years are on NFL.com
3. - Uhh, let's see...how did you say it? Ooops?

Now, let me make this very clear. Even though we probably will not get Bush, I will..and listen...I will EVERY TIME say whatever it is that I feel is appropriate to the post. This is a BBS based on written text - we are not an occult and we have no leader.

As for my pee-pee hurting? Yeah, so what - it hurts from time to time - big deal.

REGGIE....REGGIE...REGGIE....REGGIE...

royce1054
12-24-2005, 07:13 PM
Well if you say we are going to draft Bush then who are we going to sign as FA OL. If we dont sign any we wont draft Bush. I have said this 1 million times it we have too many other needs and to bring in another guy that doesnt upgrade us but adds more questions makes no sense at all. We need to protect what we have. If we do draft him we will be in the same exact spot talking about the same thing next season.

infantrycak
12-24-2005, 07:37 PM
Now, let me make this very clear. Even though we probably will not get Bush, I will..and listen...I will EVERY TIME say whatever it is that I feel is appropriate to the post. This is a BBS based on written text - we are not an occult and we have no leader.

And let me be very clear--you can have any opinion you want. Heck, fly to hang outside Reggie's house until the draft, whatever. BUT don't whine if your and other people's off-topic posts get a thread shut down, moved or merged or your post deleted as off-topic. See the difference--have any opinion, but do so in the appropriate place. Now I have to go light the candles and finish drawing my Christmas pentagram. Ta, ta.

As for my pee-pee hurting? Yeah, so what - it hurts from time to time - big deal.

You know they have a variety of drugs to treat that. And the needle is only ________________________ this long.

Xman
12-25-2005, 01:42 AM
Lets's see, draft a guy that experts are comparing to Gale Sayers (and a variety of other Hall of Famers), or stick with our injury prone RB that hasn't cracked 1200 rushing yards. As far as other factors, I know the OL sucks but he hasn't had a 100 rushing yards this year against a team with more than 5 wins - so you could say he pads his numbers against the weak teams (last year he had 4 100 yard rushing games and 2 of those teams had goo records; and 4 the year before). DD is also a nice threat in the passing game, but Bush will be better.

Plus, there is no way you pass up on the better player available and "reach" that far down to fill a need - even as big a need as we have at OL and LB.

You don't pass up on greatness because the position is not your biggest "need." Besides, until DD can stay healthy, RB is a need because we need a better RB for when DD is hurt.

Draft Bush, then either deal DD (for a decent #2 WR or an OL) or keep him and have two good RBs. Either way we will be better off. Then, either move up in the draft and take OTs McNeill or Scott in the lower part of the first round or take OL with our 2nd, and 3rd rounders (this is the best draft for OL in a long time, take a few and make our biggest weakness a strength).

royce1054
12-25-2005, 05:39 AM
Draft Bush, then either deal DD (for a decent #2 WR or an OL) or keep him and have two good RBs. Either way we will be better off. Then, either move up in the draft and take OTs McNeill or Scott in the lower part of the first round or take OL with our 2nd, and 3rd rounders (this is the best draft for OL in a long time, take a few and make our biggest weakness a strength).

I dont understand this. If we draft him and trade DD we will get a 3rd for him ala Travis Henry. We arent going to get a #2 WR for him or an OL that will upgrade us that much. Our best bet if you want Bush is to hope that the Owner, GM and Reeves decide to pick up a FA OL this whole talk here is worthless. If we draft Bush without upgrading our O-line we will be 4-12 again like last year and Carr will be on his *** 60 times again next year and we are going to say Bush didnt do much for us. When it doubt it was our pass blocking that needs to be upgraded. Until the defense respects our passing game there will 8 in the box and i think only 2 runners in this league can do that but there O-lines are the best in the league. Plus we dont have a TE who can block and catch. So thats 1 less the threat the D has to look at. I mean come on guys open your eyes here. If we dont sign the FA's and we do trade down we dont have to take a O-lineman we could go Jimmy Williams to be our #2 corner or AJ Hawk or Chad Greenway and let Babin go or draft him bc of injury questions about Wong. There is just too many questions to just come out and say lets draft Bush. Not 1 person has come up with a good reason on why we should. They say he will help our passing game out but he wont. If Carr cant get him the ball then hes worthless just like AJ was this year. You say he will be a better runner than DD thats a lie bc DD has been in the top 12 rushers in the league with an average O-line. You put DD behind Seattles line hes a 1800 yard rusher easy. We need a TE too but we can get that in the 3rd round. Come on guys look at whats really going on here and not get tunnel vision here. Stop listening to what you see on tv and hear on the radio bc they are using the same terminology you are. I have put myself on the bush side to see if i can see what you guys are talking about thats when i came up with the OL FA signing. You guys need to think like me and say what if we do trade down upgrade our O-line, TE and Defense and whats going to happen. Try that out.

Xman
12-25-2005, 10:42 AM
I agree that we need to upgrade our OL - and UNTIL I took the time to tape and watch a couple of Bush's games I was for trading down. BUT, once I saw the tapes, I was convinced. He can be special. Special enough that we take him and then add to him.

I am for rounding out the offense this year and working on the D later. There is no way we can fix it all in one year. And, since this draft is so deep at OL, TE and DL, I would work on those positions.

Also - a simple trade for DD. To AZ for BJohnson (the guy that was picked in the 1st round ahead of Boldin). He is their #3 WR but is a solid
#2 or better. They need a RB and can spare him - it works for both teams.

jacquescas
12-25-2005, 10:51 AM
we take bush cause he is a game changer. we either pair him with DD or with Wells and trade the slack. prolly get a 3-5th rounder for DD or wells.

big homey
12-25-2005, 10:52 AM
I was also all for trading down, but if we pick up Hutchinson and/or Bentley from FA, we should by all means draft Bush. Even if we don't get them, we could pick up Jean-Giles or Scott in the second round if we're lucky.

Huge
12-25-2005, 02:10 PM
Two words injury prone.
Ki-Jana Carter wasn't known to be injury prone coming out of college.

edo783
12-25-2005, 04:07 PM
if we pick up Hutchinson and/or Bentley from FA, we should by all means draft Bush. Even if we don't get them, we could pick up Jean-Giles or Scott in the second round if we're lucky.

If we don't get them, I personally don't want to leave the quality of the o-line to luck. If we don't get them or similar (doubt there are any others of their quality) then IMO we must trade down and nail some quality line guys for the future.

real
12-25-2005, 04:25 PM
I cant wait till the texans get bush so i can come to this board and feel all the anger...

LORK 88
12-25-2005, 04:55 PM
. . . or to see you kicking and screaming because we traded down.

Can the O Line fix itself? NO.
Has it ever fixed itself? NO.
Can Bush gix the O Line? NO.
Can drafting and getting FA O Linemen fix the line problem? YES.

royce1054
12-25-2005, 05:47 PM
I was also all for trading down, but if we pick up Hutchinson and/or Bentley from FA, we should by all means draft Bush. Even if we don't get them, we could pick up Jean-Giles or Scott in the second round if we're lucky.

that is not true unless u want another 4-12 or 3-13 season with less attendance at games. I mean come on guys are you locked in on this you can t see it. Jean-Giles wont be ther in the 2nd. Scott might not be there either you are hoping for something that wont happen. If we sign both Hutchinson and Bently we would take Bush in that scenario. Or we could still traded and get a Jimmy Williams to have 2 shut down corners and have Pbuc as a 3rd. Or take Greenway or Hawk i would much rather have that then Bush. DD is good enough. We will take a TE around the 3rd round and you will see how much DD has improved.

royce1054
12-25-2005, 05:53 PM
we take bush cause he is a game changer. we either pair him with DD or with Wells and trade the slack. prolly get a 3-5th rounder for DD or wells.

A. 3rd round ala Travis Henry deal. Come on that was only what last year.
B. You dont know hes a game changer until he plays a game. STOP SAYIN IT YOU DONT KNOW!!!!
C. DD and Wells are doing an exceptional job with the players that are around them. We dont have a pass blocking OL and an TE that can Block and catch for 1 millionth time. Come on guys are you just blind or football stupid. This team cant run the ball with Carr on his @ss and 8 men in the box on every down.
D. Like i said Until Carr is protected we could have Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, Shaun Alexander, Tiki barber.. i could go on and it wont make a bit of change. They will all be stopped about the same place DD would be.

i mean stop watch the TV stations and listening to radio broadcasts and start looking at whats really going on

DRAMA
12-25-2005, 07:19 PM
I don't think that if we support Bush for our team, then we're only watching tv and sports shows.

You're right - we may not get a 3rd down pick for DD because he's injured. I for one, would NOT trade DD because I don't think you can get value for him unless you got a 2.

We can only 'speculate' about his being able to game change based on what we see...as is the case the Brick, Winston, etc...nobody knows for sure. But based on what I've seen, in comparison to what I've ever seen at the college level, I would personally take a chance on Bush and what he brings to the table.

However, if Orlando Pace, Ogden, Walter Jones were in this draft, as much as it would pain me, I'd EASILY take them #1 overall. Remember, when they came out they were 'game changers' based on specualtion, of course. Reggie is being spoken of in the same vein. Brick, Winston, etc...are NOT being mentioned in this same mindframe.

So, IMO, if there's virtually no difference between Brick - - - Giles - - - that kid from OU, then what I would do is take the 'gamble' on greatness and take an OL with the #33 pick, which is one pick outside of being 'called' a #1 pick, and use that on the OL. The odds of all 8 of the top OL going in the first are not good, They could - but I don't think they will in my opinion.

We get new HC, OC, DC and try and get Hutch from Seattle, Giles in the draft, keep Pitts at LT and start out with DD and Bush breakin' ankles and I'd feel pretty good about it. However, that's the way I see it...


...but in 1 week - all this talk may be a moot point. (Unless we storn the SF boards and start raving about Gore!!!) :yahoo:

MorKnolle
12-25-2005, 11:47 PM
I was also all for trading down, but if we pick up Hutchinson and/or Bentley from FA, we should by all means draft Bush. Even if we don't get them, we could pick up Jean-Giles or Scott in the second round if we're lucky.

I hope we can get Bentley and/or Hutchinson, but I still don't think that changes what our first round pick should be: the best OT available. We still only have one decent OT on our team and adding Bentley and Hutchinson will solidify the interior of our line and make it less necessary to look for Joseph, Jean-Gilles, Scott, or whoever else in the late 1st or early 2nd rounds, but we still need to look for our prized RT/ future LT in the 1st round. If we pick up Hutchinson and Bentley and for some reason decide we aren't going to look for the top OT, we still need to address some of our problems on defense before drafting Bush.

I cant wait till the texans get bush so i can come to this board and feel all the anger...

I can't wait for us to trade the pick off a week or two before the draft and hear all these new threads griping about it until half way thru next season when our offense looks worlds better with our much-improved offensive line powering our offense to a top 10 ranking.

DRAMA
12-26-2005, 03:11 AM
If the draft 'experts' feel there is no giant difference between the #1 and the #5 Tackle, should we still take him with a high #1?

Also, pick #32 is a '#1 DRAFT PICK'

Would #33 really be that much worse just because he's a '2nd RD DRAFT PICK?'

Isn't it possible that we can get that OT at 33?

Aussie
12-26-2005, 05:46 AM
there is not even a comparison between the two??? DD has done very well with the talent that he has but he aint anywhere near the talent level of bush! bush has done things on the field that DD will never do. Dont get me wrong DD has been great for this team but he is a product of opportunity not talent ( samkon gaddo ).

Aussie
12-26-2005, 08:51 AM
The DD Vs Bush argument that is.

For mine if the texans get the #1 pick they have no choice but to draft bush because this guy is an impact player! DD has done very well with the talent that he has but he aint anywhere near the talent level of bush! bush has done things on the field that DD will never do. Dont get me wrong DD has been great for this team but he is a product of opportunity not talent ( samkon gaddo ). if DD had not been taken by an expansion team he would probably be out of the league allready.

Taking Bush is the good move so my tip is the texans will trade down, i mean we are talking bout a team that had two chances to take DJ and passed on him instead taking a guy with ADHD who was a grose underachiever the whole time he was at FSU?? Well at least this team is consistent, consistently bad by consitently making the wrong roster choices.

Malloy
12-26-2005, 08:54 AM
yay, yet another Bush ramble...

We should have just one thread 100% dedicated to Bush, then one would know what to avoid.

gg no re
12-26-2005, 09:40 AM
Bush is also a product of opportunity.

WaylonJennings67
12-26-2005, 09:59 AM
It's truly not even close..........one word........GAMEBREAKER! He'll make their OL(whoever they may be) look instantly better. Plus, he'll bring some MUCH needed excitement back to the fans.


I'm excited & he's not here yet :yahoo:

rmartin65
12-26-2005, 10:09 AM
He'll make their OL(whoever they may be) look instantly better.
The OL looks ok in runblocking but what they are bad in is passblocking. I dont see how Bush helps the blocking up front.

Huge
12-26-2005, 03:57 PM
Edited: Merging completes the transaction. :)

Vinny
12-26-2005, 04:40 PM
merged! :)

thague
12-26-2005, 07:50 PM
Since this seems to be the major discusion on these boards, I figured I would start an analysis comparing what we know about Bush with what we know about DD and his abilities. The way I see it, break it down into several categories, so, here we go:

Vision : This is DD's biggest strength, most of his runs require patience and he does a very good job of developing his runs to get the most out of them. For Reggie, in the open field he is obviously very explosive and has an unparalleld cut-back ability, but between the tackles he rarely hs to "find" a hole. DD gets the edge between the tackles, Bush in the open field.

Power: Bush's most criticized weakness, he would rather go around people then through them. While DD is no Earl Campbell, he dosnt go down easly and ussually requires a couple of people to bring him down. DD wins this one.

Jukes: Obvioulsy this one goes to Bush, he is incredible in this regard. DD is no slouch, see the KC game, but this isnt close.

Blocking: DD is not a very accomplished blocker, Bush wins by default. Have not seen enough of him blocking to form a valid opinion.

Speed: Obvioulsy Bush takes this one.

Receiving: Both are accomplished receivers. Bush only has 2 catches of over 20 yards by the way. I think this is a tie because DD has proven he can catch most anything thrown at him. Bush is a solid slot receiver, that is credentials enough.

Fumbles: Both do a great of taking care of the ball, tie.

By my count its about 3-2 Bush, with two categories ennding in ties. Feel free to add anything on or challenge my opinion, just try to make it a real argument, and please, no draft trade down scenarios, just comapre the players. After all, even if we do draft Bush, there is no guarantee he will beat out DD...


As far as the comparison between DD and Bush goes, Bush is more explosive, Davis is better between the tackles. Bush is an incredible player, but why is there even a debate on whether or not Houston should draft him? Davis, Wells, and Morency are solid, the reason that Davis is injury prone is because he is not an every down back like Houston wants him to be. Give Wells and Morency a few more carries a game, and get DD back to 15 carries and 4-5 receptions and he won't get hurt so much.. Houston DOESNT NEED ANOTHER RUNNING BACK!!! We have huge problems on Defense in every position minus Robinson, we have an awful run-defense, and our safeties could possibly be the worst in the league... i say trade down and get a bunch of second and third round picks... grab a defensive player, like an AJ Hawk, or Jimmy Williams... put SOMEONE decent on the offensive line, although i am a Chester Pitts fan... and Houston could be a playoff team in a couple of years...

dat_boy_yec
12-26-2005, 08:15 PM
Well, back to the topic at hand. On speed it is obvious that Bush has the edge the advantage where this comes in is the open field. It's frustrating when you see DD get caught from behind, I can't say this will never happen to Bush, but I don't see it happening. Power, as of right now I would think that goes to DD, he has the build to push ahead and gain yac, he is also accustomed to pushing heavier players, but I think this has put alot of strain on his knees and put his durability in question. I think Bush could improve significantly with a weight coach and reps. Blitz pickup, I think this is extremely important and something that DD lacks, I've seen Bush pick up a few blitzes nicely but not enough to know if he's consistent on it. However I think Bush has an edge in this because some of the missed blocks by DD really hurt. I think that the reason we do better when Wells is in the backfield is because he picks up the blitzes better. Receiving I think this goes to Bush simply because he can line up in the slot. I know that's probably underanalized by me, but I just can't see DD lining up there well. Vision, on this I think that they are about even but Bush has quicker reactions so it makes his vision a little more effective. Overall I think that Bush definitely has the edge.

MorKnolle
12-26-2005, 09:41 PM
I wasn't going to post on this thread but I decided I'd go ahead and do it.

The way I see it, break it down into several categories, so, here we go:

Vision : This is DD's biggest strength, most of his runs require patience and he does a very good job of developing his runs to get the most out of them. For Reggie, in the open field he is obviously very explosive and has an unparalleld cut-back ability, but between the tackles he rarely hs to "find" a hole. DD gets the edge between the tackles, Bush in the open field.

I basically agree with you here, I think one of Davis' strengths is his vision, Bush appears to have pretty good vision but NFL defenses are different so we'll have to see how he makes the transition. I think Davis' vision in the open field is as good as Bush's, but he doesn't have the best speed in the league and with the speed of NFL DBs he will get chased down as almost everyone does.

Power: Bush's most criticized weakness, he would rather go around people then through them. While DD is no Earl Campbell, he dosnt go down easly and ussually requires a couple of people to bring him down. DD wins this one.

This isn't even close. Davis isn't a guy that is going to bowl right over LBs like Jerome Bettis but he is short and compact and runs into people and bounces off and continues going quite well. I haven't seen Bush do this very well although he usually goes around people, but again that is at the college level and won't happen as much in the NFL so we'll have to see how well he can take hits and keep going. In my opinion Davis is excellent at continuing to run after contact and finding ways to eek out extra yards.

Jukes: Obvioulsy this one goes to Bush, he is incredible in this regard. DD is no slouch, see the KC game, but this isnt close.

Bush is good at jukes, Davis is also good. Davis' obviously doesn't run quite as fast for his jukes but he does open up extra room and break tackles with his jukes too. Bush seems to run one way and switch back another and cause college defenders to overpursue him and lose their tackling angles while he dances around the outside of them, while Davis uses more of a quick-step juke while running between people to open up holes. Bush probably has a slight edge on this but I'm not sure since they use jukes differently.

Blocking: DD is not a very accomplished blocker, Bush wins by default. Have not seen enough of him blocking to form a valid opinion.

I don't really agree here. Davis doesn't block very well but he usually is just supposed to get in someone's way and then release for a pass. I haven't seen Bush sit in the pocket and pick up many blitzes either, he is usually running routes out of the backfield or lined up in the slot. I haven't seen much evidence of either being a good blocker.

Speed: Obvioulsy Bush takes this one.[/QUOTE[

Yes Bush has better straight-line speed and probably accelerates a little quicker. I think Davis is a little faster side-to-side though, or at least the same quickness as Bush.

[QUOTE=run-david-run]Receiving: Both are accomplished receivers. Bush only has 2 catches of over 20 yards by the way. I think this is a tie because DD has proven he can catch most anything thrown at him. Bush is a solid slot receiver, that is credentials enough.

Both catch the ball quite well. Davis catches most passes thrown at him and has put up nice receiving numbers out of the backfield. Bush has pretty good hands too and has lined up in the slot too, but I'd say they're even.

Fumbles: Both do a great of taking care of the ball, tie.

Both are pretty good at this.

My comparison in some categories:
Speed: advantage to Bush
Agility: about even
Acceleration: advantage to Bush
Vision: slight advantage to Davis
Hands: even
Fumbling: even
Speed Moves: slight advantage to Bush
Power Moves: advantage to Davis
Blocking: both non-impressive

My rankings of some of their abilities in terms of approximate Madden ratings:
Speed: 91-92 for Davis, 96 for Bush
Agility: 93-94 for Davis, 94 for Bush
Acceleration: 92-93 for Davis, 96 for Bush
Awareness: 75-78 for Davis, 68-70 for Bush (main reason for difference is because Bush is a rookie)
Catching: 78-82 for both
Carrying: 82-85 for both
Break Tackle: 85 for Davis, 80 for Bush
Blocking: both not very good, probably in the 35-40 range

In terms of running a Madden franchise Bush is probably the more desirable pick, but in terms of the real NFL and how our team is currently built, I don't see Bush improving our team much if any, and certainly not enough to warrant $50 million and the #1 overall pick.

edo783
12-26-2005, 09:41 PM
That Bush will likely be the better back is a BIT of a given. However, what does that really mean? He will likely gain 1500-1800 yards Vs. DDs 1200-1500 yards. Yes, that's better, but is it 30 million dollars better, because that is about how much more he will cost than DD. Bush = ~55 Mill DD= 25 Mill so we are going to be paying an additional 30 million of the cap for MAYBE 300-500 additional yards. Sounds a bit expensive to me to upgrade a position that is a LONG way from the worst one on the team.

MorKnolle
12-26-2005, 09:46 PM
That Bush will likely be the better back is a BIT of a given. However, what does that really mean? He will likely gain 1500-1800 yards Vs. DDs 1200-1500 yards. Yes, that's better, but is it 30 million dollars better, because that is about how much more he will cost than DD. Bush = ~55 Mill DD= 25 Mill so we are going to be paying an additional 30 million of the cap for MAYBE 300-500 additional yards. Sounds a bit expensive to me to upgrade a position that is a LONG way from the worst one on the team.

The economics of it don't make sense. I also don't see Bush rushing for 1800 yards in a season, I don't see his body holding up for that much rushing and pounding he would receive. Maybe he'd have a fluke year like that, but I wouldn't expect him to average more than 1400 yards per season. All other things being equal, I'd expect Bush and Davis to average about 1300 rushing yards a season, and maybe Bush gets 700-800 receiving yards while Davis only gets 500-600, but that's about the only difference I see in their stats assuming they had an equal team built around them. Obviously differing teams and offensive systems will create a different set of statistics for both of them, so we'll have to see how Davis does in the future with our team and how Bush will do on the 49ers or Jets.

royce1054
12-26-2005, 11:35 PM
As far as the comparison between DD and Bush goes, Bush is more explosive, Davis is better between the tackles. Bush is an incredible player, but why is there even a debate on whether or not Houston should draft him? Davis, Wells, and Morency are solid, the reason that Davis is injury prone is because he is not an every down back like Houston wants him to be. Give Wells and Morency a few more carries a game, and get DD back to 15 carries and 4-5 receptions and he won't get hurt so much.. Houston DOESNT NEED ANOTHER RUNNING BACK!!! We have huge problems on Defense in every position minus Robinson, we have an awful run-defense, and our safeties could possibly be the worst in the league... i say trade down and get a bunch of second and third round picks... grab a defensive player, like an AJ Hawk, or Jimmy Williams... put SOMEONE decent on the offensive line, although i am a Chester Pitts fan... and Houston could be a playoff team in a couple of years...


FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANS

THANK GOD i thought i was in a room with a bunch of doors