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Big B Texan Fan
12-22-2005, 01:18 AM
I found this cruising the many draft sites. Scroll down a bit to view the footage.

http://qisports.com/dbrickashawferguson2006.html

I wouldn't mind having this guy on my team. I'm just not a strong believer in taking O-Linemen with a top 5 pick. I've been saying that you take skill position players if you are picking in the top 5 and then address needs with the other pix. Remember, when it boils down to it, you draft the best player available, especially in the 1st round with high pix.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
12-22-2005, 03:26 AM
This guy is going to be an absolute monster for you guys, screw Reggie Bush..




already considered the next great franchise Left Tackle in the mold of a: Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli etc... Ferguson is still developing which is scary because he is already dominating, one of the most athletic Offensive Linemen you will ever see.


NFL Potential Outcome: Elite Superstar (Scale: Average, Good, Superstar)

beerlover
12-22-2005, 04:23 AM
check out this glowing review of Mathis- http://www.qisports.com/jeromemathis2005.html

I'm still yet undecided on D'Brickashaw. In time he may very well turn into a franchise tackle, but that is based on potential I don't think David Carr & the Texans can afford that luxury. We need immediate impact to resolve the protection issue, before he tore his acl Eric Winston was the top rated OT, he will never regain full movement & quickness but he has rehabed and learned to adjust & become mentally tougher. At this point however I'm not convinced either is top 5 talent. If you can draft superstar talent in the 4th rd. (Mathis) why can't you get elite superstar talent anywhere in the 1st rd?

Grid
12-22-2005, 06:27 AM
We dont necessarily need immediate impact on the line.

Well.. I say that.. but really we DO need an immediate impact.. but we also need 20 superbowl trophies.. we arent gonna get either next year so we might as well not fret over it.

Whichever tackle we take in the draft (and im sure we will take at least one) will probably be an RT for us next season. Hopefully starting. We can afford to ease them into the LT position.. if they ever even beat Pitts out of it.

I think what we really need though..is someone with some frickin intelligence to come in and actually evaluate our Oline talent.

For example.. McKinney should NOT be a center. He never has been a center.. we made him a center and he sucks at it. His natural position is LG, and he is very good there.. so we need to put him there and LEAVE him there. THat is his strength.. and we need a line that plays to its strengths.

Hodgdon looked good at center and we need to find out if he is the long term answer there. Either way we need to either draft, or sign, another center. Todd Washington sucks (though id like to know for sure) and I dont want McKinney moving back to center if Hodg gets injured again.

What id really like to know though.. is what can Wand do for us. Can he play RT? ive never seen him there.. though he showed promise at LT. I dont see why we havent tried him at RT. Probably because we pay Wade too much money. Well screw Wade..he isnt getting the job done.. he may be a real expensive backup but i value my franchise QB and my functioning offense more than I value the money we are paying him.

Last position is RG.. id like to see Wand tried there as well.. and Wade too. Weigert I havent been impressed with.. and if we can afford to do so, im for cutting him. There are some good RGs available in FA as well.

Milford Brown.. i suspect.. is a bust.. or at best a career backup. If we find that he cant do an adequate job when he has to come in the game.. then cut him. We need new talent on the line.. BETTER talent..so lets cut the fat and get it.



So.. basicly..

Wand/Rookie at RT
Wand/Wade/FA/Rookie at LG
Hodgdon at Center
McKinney at LG
Pitts at LT

that is what I want to see next season. Now if someone would just get to work on seeing what is the best combination for the right side.. maybe we can actually get something DONE this offseason and get back on track for next year. Who knows.. Carr may even recover from a half decade of getting the crap kicked out of him, and become a good QB.


So.. i guess..im not against Dbrick in hte first.. though since I dont see ANY rookie coming in and taking the LT spot..or making an immediate impact.. im more inclined to pick up the BPA with our first round pick..and going for an OT in the second. Its deep this year at OT and a good one could very well slide. Im leaning towards trading down to the middle/upper middle of the first.. and grabbing Hlatoi Ngata. A playmaker at DT can MAKE the 3-4 defense.

cap1
12-22-2005, 07:10 AM
We dont necessarily need immediate impact on the line.

Well.. I say that.. but really we DO need an immediate impact.. but we also need 20 superbowl trophies.. we arent gonna get either next year so we might as well not fret over it.

Whichever tackle we take in the draft (and im sure we will take at least one) will probably be an RT for us next season. Hopefully starting. We can afford to ease them into the LT position.. if they ever even beat Pitts out of it.

I think what we really need though..is someone with some frickin intelligence to come in and actually evaluate our Oline talent.

For example.. McKinney should NOT be a center. He never has been a center.. we made him a center and he sucks at it. His natural position is LG, and he is very good there.. so we need to put him there and LEAVE him there. THat is his strength.. and we need a line that plays to its strengths.

Hodgdon looked good at center and we need to find out if he is the long term answer there. Either way we need to either draft, or sign, another center. Todd Washington sucks (though id like to know for sure) and I dont want McKinney moving back to center if Hodg gets injured again.

What id really like to know though.. is what can Wand do for us. Can he play RT? ive never seen him there.. though he showed promise at LT. I dont see why we havent tried him at RT. Probably because we pay Wade too much money. Well screw Wade..he isnt getting the job done.. he may be a real expensive backup but i value my franchise QB and my functioning offense more than I value the money we are paying him.

Last position is RG.. id like to see Wand tried there as well.. and Wade too. Weigert I havent been impressed with.. and if we can afford to do so, im for cutting him. There are some good RGs available in FA as well.

Milford Brown.. i suspect.. is a bust.. or at best a career backup. If we find that he cant do an adequate job when he has to come in the game.. then cut him. We need new talent on the line.. BETTER talent..so lets cut the fat and get it.



So.. basicly..

Wand/Rookie at RT
Wand/Wade/FA/Rookie at LG
Hodgdon at Center
McKinney at LG
Pitts at LT

that is what I want to see next season. Now if someone would just get to work on seeing what is the best combination for the right side.. maybe we can actually get something DONE this offseason and get back on track for next year. Who knows.. Carr may even recover from a half decade of getting the crap kicked out of him, and become a good QB.


So.. i guess..im not against Dbrick in hte first.. though since I dont see ANY rookie coming in and taking the LT spot..or making an immediate impact.. im more inclined to pick up the BPA with our first round pick..and going for an OT in the second. Its deep this year at OT and a good one could very well slide. Im leaning towards trading down to the middle/upper middle of the first.. and grabbing Hlatoi Ngata. A playmaker at DT can MAKE the 3-4 defense.

Grid, I was with you until trading up into the first for another DT. I can see us trading up into the First, but we need help other places and we took TJ last year in the first. Now I could see us trade up into the first for a DE if we switch to a 4-3 with the new coaches

Coach C.
12-22-2005, 08:46 AM
Grid what is your obsession with playing Wand. The guy has looked terrible on a constant basis. He is overmatched and if he was smart he would learn how to play guard. Hodgon is ok, but overmatched in the run game, would like to see us snatch NO center/G Pro Bowler 26 years old all world Lecharles Bentley. I assume you were joking about trading up into the first and getting a DT.

beerlover
12-22-2005, 11:30 AM
Grid, I was with you until trading up into the first for another DT. I can see us trading up into the First, but we need help other places and we took TJ last year in the first.

Travis was the highest rated interior linemen in last years draft, traditionally they take 2-3 years of adjustment until they standout. I can't talk for Grid but I'm thinking a edge linemen thats strong, quick and athletic who can pressure a QB like Mario Williams.


Now I could see us trade up into the first for a DE if we switch to a 4-3 with the new coaches

thats the ticket :ok:

Blake
12-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Grid what is your obsession with playing Wand. The guy has looked terrible on a constant basis. He is overmatched and if he was smart he would learn how to play guard. Hodgon is ok, but overmatched in the run game, would like to see us snatch NO center/G Pro Bowler 26 years old all world Lecharles Bentley. I assume you were joking about trading up into the first and getting a DT.

I really like Nick Mangold. I think he could be had in the top of the 3rd.

MorKnolle
12-22-2005, 11:34 AM
So.. basicly..

Wand/Rookie at RT
Wand/Wade/FA/Rookie at LG
Hodgdon at Center
McKinney at LG
Pitts at LT

So.. i guess..im not against Dbrick in hte first.. though since I dont see ANY rookie coming in and taking the LT spot..or making an immediate impact.. im more inclined to pick up the BPA with our first round pick..and going for an OT in the second. Its deep this year at OT and a good one could very well slide. Im leaning towards trading down to the middle/upper middle of the first.. and grabbing Hlatoi Ngata. A playmaker at DT can MAKE the 3-4 defense.

I agree with probably starting a rookie OT at RT at least for the first part of the year until he wins the LT job, which is one big reason why I think we should get Winston. He is big and strong enough to play that position and maybe interior line if we needed him to for some reason, while Ferguson is only a pass-blocking LT. I also think McKinney is gone, he has a pretty big base salary but it will not cost much to cut or trade him and he hasn't produced this year so I say he's gone. I think we should keep Wiegert for next year when his contract runs out. Unfortunately we're locked into Wade being here and I don't know if I see him being able to transition to OG because he's built too much like a OT, even though he doesn't play there very well either. Hodgdon is ok at C although I'd maybe look to draft another one in the 3rd round (there is a good one at Minnesota, don't remember his name at the moment), and I'd say draft the best OG available in the 2nd round, maybe even package something (preferably a couple players rather than draft picks) and move back into the late first to get McNeil, otherwise Joseph, Thomas, or whoever else is there. We could also possibly try to sign Hutchinson from Seattle or Bentley from New Orleans who are free agents, but cadahnic, coach c, and I will get into the free agent stuff more in a week or two. That said, here is my prefered OL next year:

LT Chester Pitts/Eric Winston (if he can beat Pitts out)
LG Rookie (preferably McNeil, or Joseph, Thomas, Setterstrom, etc.)
C LeCharles Bentley (if we can sign him)/Drew Hodgdon/Rookie
RG Zach Wiegert/Steve Hutchinson (I think Wiegert is fine for one more year so maybe have rookie not start and rotate in)
RT Eric Winston/Chester Pitts (if he gets beat out for LT)
Backups: Todd Wade (expensive backup but he shouldn't start anymore), Wiegert/rookie OG (if Hutchinson is signed, have rookie and Wiegert battle it out for starter), Milford Brown (can play either OG and is a solid backup OL, done decent as a starter this year), Todd Washington (same as Milford plus he can play C, did decent in his limited action this year), Hodgdon (if Bentley is brought in)

beerlover
12-22-2005, 11:42 AM
I really like Nick Mangold. I think he could be had in the top of the 3rd.

if Mangold slips to the 3rd that would be a great value, he has excellent leadership abilites, smart and good size to star at his position at the next level. He cannot pull like Greg Eslinger, but pass protection and blocking assingments would be upgraded.:)

Coach C.
12-22-2005, 12:14 PM
Mangold is from Ohio State right.

TheOgre
12-22-2005, 12:39 PM
I hope we get Ferguson. He would be our LT for the next 10+ years.

JDizzle
12-22-2005, 01:16 PM
That video doesn't have hardly any game footage in it. Kind of hard to say he'll be a lock at LT.

FYI Those interested in watching how he performs in a game, make sure you catch the Music City Bowl on Dec. 30th at 12PM on ESPN, when Virginia plays Minnesota.

Double Barrel
12-22-2005, 02:05 PM
This guy is going to be an absolute monster for you guys, screw Reggie Bush..

Quote:
already considered the next great franchise Left Tackle in the mold of a: Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli etc... Ferguson is still developing which is scary because he is already dominating, one of the most athletic Offensive Linemen you will ever see.

Quote:
NFL Potential Outcome: Elite Superstar (Scale: Average, Good, Superstar)

I'm in the same frame of mind. Elite tackles are drafted, and rarely do you find them in free agency or trades. The position is just too important. If his future is as dominating as many scouting reports predict, I'd have no problem picking him with our first round pick. It probably wouldn't go over too well with many fans, though...

TheOgre
12-22-2005, 02:27 PM
Mike Munchak wasn't a popular pick when he was taken either.

Grid
12-22-2005, 04:21 PM
Wand wasnt perfect when he played LT, but his problems were blown WAY out of proportion. Alot of Wand's issues had more to do with the middle of the line collapsing.. pushing Carr back and running him directly into the guy that wand was blocking.


I say DT in the first for 3 reasons:

1) Robaire Smith is still fairly young.. and Travis Johnson is in his rookie season. That makes two starters at DE.. I dont think we need a third one.

2) Seth Payne is good.. but he is getting up there in years.. we need his future replacement.

3) A DT in the 3-4 is very important. A really good DT can collapse that pocket on a regular basis.. pushing the QB out of the pocket and into our OLBs. A playmaker at DT really does MAKE the 3-4 work.. or at least the passrush part of it. Payne is pretty good.. I wouldnt say he is a playmaker but he is above average... the only problem is his age, and our lack of a young player behind him to groom. Id love to get us a rookie DT to work on.. and Hlatoi Ngata looks like he could be a force in the middle.


MorKnolle.. you dont have Steve McKinney anywhere on that list. I just want to point out to everyone that Steve McKinney isnt a center... never was... we should never have put him at center. His natural position is LG..and when we had Hodgdon at C.. McKinney looked damn good at LG.

Grid
12-22-2005, 04:23 PM
oh and BTW.. I agree.. LTs are drafted.

My problem with Ferguson is just that I dont think he is really HEAD AND SHOULDERS above some of the other tackles in this draft.

That, combined with the fact that Pitts isnt a bad LT, makes me think that Ferguson may be nice to have.. but we dont necessarily HAVE to spend our first round pick on an OT.

run-david-run
12-22-2005, 06:25 PM
oh and BTW.. I agree.. LTs are drafted.

My problem with Ferguson is just that I dont think he is really HEAD AND SHOULDERS above some of the other tackles in this draft.

That, combined with the fact that Pitts isnt a bad LT, makes me think that Ferguson may be nice to have.. but we dont necessarily HAVE to spend our first round pick on an OT.
By getting D'Brick that lets us put Pitts at guard, where the organization seems to think he is best. Now, if D'Brick can only match Pitts' play at LT his first year, that already improves the line by having Pitts play guard at a higher level then anyone else we have while not having a crapy LT, like Riley. Drafting a good LT helps everyone: RB's can either run out of backfield OR help everyone else. TE's can also run more routes without having to block, QB' have more time, Defenses have to blitz to get pressure= no double coverage on AJ.

Grid
12-22-2005, 07:06 PM
I dont know if you remember what he was like playing guard.. but he is a better Tackle. If he isnt playing LT, then he needs to be playing RT. That is his strength.

Besides.. McKinney is a very good LG.

edo783
12-22-2005, 08:20 PM
I dont know if you remember what he was like playing guard.. but he is a better Tackle. If he isnt playing LT, then he needs to be playing RT. That is his strength.

Besides.. McKinney is a very good LG.

Spot on. Our rookie tackle will likely start out at RT and after a year or two he probably will swap positions with Pitts and that should secure the corners pretty well. McKinny showed he is solid as a LG and we would then get some value for his contract. I like the idea of picking up the center from the Saints as he can also play gaurd if DHog beats him out.

Erratic Assassin
12-22-2005, 09:11 PM
Wand/Rookie at RT
Wand/Wade/FA/Rookie at LG
Hodgdon at Center
McKinney at LG
Pitts at LT

Wand, Wade, Hodgdon, McKinney, Pitts. How many games are we going to win with that line?

With that line, you can be the best wide receiver in the league, but the play will be dead by the time you hit your spot.

You build your team on a solid foundation. We need to take our medicine and start drafting linemen. It's not exciting, but it's necessary.

Grid
12-22-2005, 11:45 PM
Hodgdon, McKinney, and Pitts looked good when they were out there.

How do you know if Wand and Wade sucks at RT/RG?


People need to get over this whole "I saw him once..he wasnt impressive.. fire him and get a pro bowler" attitude.

I agree we need to draft a good 3-4 linemen.. but I disagree that we need to fire everyone we have and move everybody all over freakin creation.


and one more thing for anyone reading.

PITTS IS A FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS IS NOT A FREAKING GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS SUCKED AT GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

LEAVE HIM AT FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

HE IS A GOOD TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WILL NOT BE A BETTER GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just felt the need to yell that this time.. since people in other threads continue to get excited about putting him back at guard...like that would be a good thing.

and as long as im screaming. Let me also repeat this.. cause ive heard you have to hear something 6 times before it sticks. I think that only applies to stupid people but i think we can all agree that not everyone here is smart. So... McKinney isnt a center.. he has never been a center.. he was never built to be a center.. he is actually a damn good guard.. and he will be very good for us at that position.

YoungTexanFan
12-22-2005, 11:49 PM
Hodgdon, McKinney, and Pitts looked good when they were out there.

How do you know if Wand and Wade sucks at RT/RG?


People need to get over this whole "I saw him once..he wasnt impressive.. fire him and get a pro bowler" attitude.

I agree we need to draft a good 3-4 linemen.. but I disagree that we need to fire everyone we have and move everybody all over freakin creation.


and one more thing for anyone reading.

PITTS IS A FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS IS NOT A FREAKING GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS SUCKED AT GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

LEAVE HIM AT FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

HE IS A GOOD TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WILL NOT BE A BETTER GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just felt the need to yell that this time.. since people in other threads continue to get excited about putting him back at guard...like that would be a good thing.

and as long as im screaming. Let me also repeat this.. cause ive heard you have to hear something 6 times before it sticks. I think that only applies to stupid people but i think we can all agree that not everyone here is smart. So... McKinney isnt a center.. he has never been a center.. he was never built to be a center.. he is actually a damn good guard.. and he will be very good for us at that position.

you will see that i am not suggesting moving pitts to guard.

Grid
12-22-2005, 11:50 PM
and I appreciate that :) hehe

stevo3883
12-23-2005, 12:31 AM
well if we get dbrick, we better hope we dont play darryl tapp for the next 10 years.

clandestin
12-23-2005, 06:37 AM
Hodgdon, McKinney, and Pitts looked good when they were out there.
...
People need to get over this whole "I saw him once..he wasnt impressive.. fire him and get a pro bowler" attitude.


well turnabout is fair play:

how about "People need to get over this whole "I saw him [twice]..he wasnt [entirely unimpressive].. he's a pro bowler" attitude."

HODGDON IS A 5TH ROUND PICK AND ONLY PLAYED 2 1/2 GAMES!!!!!!!!
AND AT BEST HE LOOKED 'NOT ENTIRELY TERRIBLE'!!!!!!!
QUIT ACTING LIKE HE'S AN AUTOMATIC NFL CALIBER CENTER!!!!
OH YEAH, AND MCKINNEY GOT DESTROYED AT GUARD AT LEAST TWICE EVERY GAME I WATCHED!!!

meh, it's wasn't as fun as it looked...

Texans Horror
12-23-2005, 08:49 AM
Wand wasnt perfect when he played LT, but his problems were blown WAY out of proportion. Alot of Wand's issues had more to do with the middle of the line collapsing.. pushing Carr back and running him directly into the guy that wand was blocking.


I agree with you completely. I think the fact that it was his first season starting at LT had a lot to do with his problems, but I think Pendry also had a lot to do with the line problems. The more people talk about him playing RT, the more I like it.

What about Pitts/McKinney/draft pick/Weigert or Wade/Wand? I am still not convinced of Brown or Weary. They have done fine, but the offense has become so fast and limited in pass protection, it is hard for me to judge how they are doing.

To me, this is what it comes down to. I think we need a good Center, and I think we need a good RT. DD can run left. He could do it with Wand or Pitts at the LT spot, but he has never been able to run right as well as he can to the left, IMO. I think Wand could help open up holes on the right. Since I think we can fix the right side with Wand, the only other position is Center, which is why I put the draft pick there.

Grid
12-23-2005, 09:04 AM
Ya know.. I wrote a long reply to that crap Clandestine.. but its really not worth it... you are blatantly trolling. So I sat down to write a short reply and it didnt quite work.. so here is a completely different long reply :)


Is two games enough to really judge someone? no.. which means I cant say hes a probowler..and you cant say hes not the answer at center. In 2 games he did look GOOD though (not terrible? are you a fan or not? do all our players start out at terrible and slowly move up in your mind?). He looked good and therefore im willing to mark him in as the starting Center next season. I want someone behind him, but I think in two games he showed that he COULD be the answer.

As for McKinney.. you are ignorant. You are parroting what others were saying about McKinney last season. he IS a bad center..but he is a good guard.. and he didnt get beat twice a game, as you falsely claimed. That is real classy of ya though.

When do you so called "fans" intend to quit being ignorant and pessimistic? Ya know its REAL easy to claim that everyone on the Texans sucks after their performance this season.. but it takes a real blind ***** to ignore the talent we DO have.

It is like nails on a chalkboard every time ANOTHER fool decides to make a post dogging Faggins or Gaffney or DD or Carr or Pitts or our LBs.. because never have I seen a post that actually gives a critical and FAIR look at these players or one that gives an honest and informed opinion. (well..I saw some good write ups on Carr..but usually its just "lets fire him and get Joe Montana out of retirement" bull****). The pessimists arent really interested in facts. They dont care about how much promise our LBs have shown this season.. because its more fun to say they all suck and we need to sign [insert high profile name here]. They dont care if Faggins is a quality nickle and dime CB because ignorant fans dont understand the importance of second and third string players, in their mind, they are just there to replace the injured starter. They dont care that Gaffney is a "1st down machine" and runs great routes and has great hands.. because all they see is a guy thats kinda small and kinda slow.. and he just doesnt stack up to Randy Moss and Terrell Owens.. lets sign one of them instead :P. DD doesnt have the speed to run a 70 yard touchdown..therefore he sucks.. Our Oline gives up too many sacks.. so everyone on it is trash and needs to be fired.. it goes on and on and on and on.. ignorance stacked on stupidity stacked on wild conjecture stacked on blatant trolling stacked on more ignorance.

i dont claim to be a football guru.. heck.. anyone who spends any time on this board has probably seen me change my mind about players and coaches 100 times. I will be the first to admit when I am wrong about someone or something.. but you will never, EVER, see me say someone sucks, or someone is useless to this team.. without a damn good reason. Wanna know why? because its freakin childish and shows a lack of loyalty towards my home town team. No player is perfect, and no team in the league has 52 prowbowlers on their roster. Its a team sport and everyone contributes. If a player can do their job and contribute to a win.. that is all you need. Probowlers and superstars are bonuses.

Kaiser Toro
12-23-2005, 09:26 AM
:thumbup Well done Grid. I'd give you some rep, but I got to pass it around still.

DRAMA
12-23-2005, 12:04 PM
PITTS IS A FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS IS NOT A FREAKING GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS SUCKED AT GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

LEAVE HIM AT FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

HE IS A GOOD TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WILL NOT BE A BETTER GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.

Thank God for Grid! I was just about to write that post. I usually bang the keyboard a little harder with my CAPS on!

That post there can NOT be any more clear! With that said, just for Moderator fun time - I say draft Reggie Bush! :)

clandestin
12-23-2005, 08:21 PM
Ya know.. I wrote a long reply to that crap Clandestine.. but its really not worth it... you are blatantly trolling. So I sat down to write a short reply and it didnt quite work.. so here is a completely different long reply :)

Bit touchy aren't you? For the record I was 'joking' not 'trolling.'


Is two games enough to really judge someone? no.. which means I cant say hes a probowler..and you cant say hes not the answer at center. In 2 games he did look GOOD though (not terrible? are you a fan or not? do all our players start out at terrible and slowly move up in your mind?). He looked good and therefore im willing to mark him in as the starting Center next season. I want someone behind him, but I think in two games he showed that he COULD be the answer.

The point is that Hodgon might as well be a complete unknown. If you watch the tape he looked over matched several times (which is perfectly fine and expected at the point that he's at,) and occasionally showed flashes...in 2.5 games.

People are repeating the Wand mistake all over again, by writing this guy in automatically as a starter and assuming he'll become a good player (btw 5th round draft picks have ~9% chance of ever becoming starters in this league.) Now IF the new coaching staff has a record of evaluating OL talent--in my mind this is the MOST blatent failure of the current staff--and evaluates him and says he's a talented enough and ready to start then I'll happily share the optimism.

As for McKinney.. you are ignorant. You are parroting what others were saying about McKinney last season. he IS a bad center..but he is a good guard.. and he didnt get beat twice a game, as you falsely claimed. That is real classy of ya though.

When do you so called "fans" intend to quit being ignorant and pessimistic? Ya know its REAL easy to claim that everyone on the Texans sucks after their performance this season.. but it takes a real blind ***** to ignore the talent we DO have.

It must be really easy for you to "win" arguements (at least in your own head) when you automatically assume people with a different point of view are "ignorant and pessimistic" or "parroting" other people.

McKinney's stats:
Year Team G GS Pen Yds False Start Holding Sacks Allwd Yds
2004 Hou 16 16 0 0 0 0 3.50 21.50
2005 Hou 14 14 3 15 3 0 8.25 57.00

8.25 sacks allowed in 14 games!!! Find me another interior lineman in the entire league who matches that number and I'll happily concede to your points. That is just flat out embarassing.

Saying he got beat at least 2 times a game as a guard was being generous. Add in QB hurries, and blown run blocks and I guarantee you I'll take the over on that number. (go back and watch tape on these games...I'm right.)

Here's an idea let's pencil in a player who ISN'T leading ALL interior linemen in 'sacks allowed' into our starting line-up next year.

cheers.

Grid
12-23-2005, 11:16 PM
You just arent paying attention Clandestine.

1. Never said Wand needs to be penciled in as a starter. I said he needs to see some time at RT since he didnt look BAD at LT. He could possibly be the answer there.

2. 5th round draft picks may not have a large chance of making it in the league.. but look around at the starting olinemen on some of the other teams and you will see that MANY of them are 2nd day draft picks.. if they were even drafted at all. THere are a good number of undrafted free agents that are starting Olinemen.

3. Those sack numbers are McKinney playing at Center.. as ive already said repeatedly.. he is NOT a center..never has been. We made him a center for god knows what reason.. he IS a guard..and played well at LG. And that isnt being generous.. that is being honest. Is it that hard to understand that Center and Guard are two different positions?

Hervoyel
12-23-2005, 11:52 PM
and one more thing for anyone reading.

PITTS IS A FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS IS NOT A FREAKING GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PITTS SUCKED AT GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

LEAVE HIM AT FREAKING TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

HE IS A GOOD TACKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WILL NOT BE A BETTER GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just felt the need to yell that this time.. since people in other threads continue to get excited about putting him back at guard...like that would be a good thing.


Grid what makes you think that you are qualified to say that Pitts will not be a better guard than tackle? I mean, I understand that you personally have observed that Chester Pitts plays LT better than he plays LG. That kind of makes sense when you consider that the man has played LG for exactly one season plus a handful of games this year and that he's played LT for exactly "all the other football he's ever played in his life".

Sure, leave him at LT until you have someone who can equal or improve his level of play but there is nothing wrong with the idea that this man, who played LT in college could be an outstanding LG. It happens quite often in the NFL. Players who could hold down one of the tackle spots get moved to guard fairly often. Likewise players who were guards in college find that they get moved to "some other job outside of football" when they come to the NFL because they're slow, plodding, or too weak to do the job in the professional ranks.

Chester Pitts has all the tools to be a Pro Bowl LG. Chester Pitts can play LT in the NFL and not look all that bad doing it. I think I'd be trying to make that transition to LG and I think that would be a good thing.

Hervoyel
12-23-2005, 11:59 PM
Wand, Wade, Hodgdon, McKinney, Pitts. How many games are we going to win with that line?

Not as many as we'd win with this line:

LT=Wand LG=Pitts C=Hodgdon RG=Brown RT=Wade

Now you can start Weigert in place of Brown if the man can stay healthy for an entire season but a variation of that line won 7 games last year. Subtract McKinney (Expensive weak inside link) and put in Hodgdon (or really pretty much any NFL quality center) and let the winner of a Weigert/Brown/Weary competition start at RG and you're putting a better line on the field than you did this year or, arguably last year.

Draft another Tackle and if he can beat out Wand or Wade then let him.


With that line, you can be the best wide receiver in the league, but the play will be dead by the time you hit your spot.

You build your team on a solid foundation. We need to take our medicine and start drafting linemen. It's not exciting, but it's necessary.

Didn't Andre Johnson go to the Pro Bowl in 2004?

MorKnolle
12-24-2005, 12:55 AM
McKinney's stats:
Year Team G GS Pen Yds False Start Holding Sacks Allwd Yds
2004 Hou 16 16 0 0 0 0 3.50 21.50
2005 Hou 14 14 3 15 3 0 8.25 57.00


Out of curiosity, where do you find these stats of offensive linemen? I'd be interested to check those out for some players for future posts.

Grid
12-24-2005, 03:16 AM
I understand what you are saying Herv.. and I agree that if a person is talented enough to play tackle.. alot of the time..they are also talented enough to be an even better guard.

The only issue I have with Pitts moving to guard is that he is a good tackle..and we dont have alot of those... as a matter of fact we have one of them, and pitts is it. If Pitts is going to move anywhere, anytime soon, it should be to RT. And that should only happen if we happen to get a really good LT in the draft who is ready to start immediatly (there arent any good FA LTs this season).

Also.. judging by what I saw of Pitts at LG, he was a better tackle.. he just didnt seem to be a natural at the guard spot. Plus, with McKinney able to play LG for us, there is no need to move Pitts in.. unless you want to put him at RG, and I dont see the point in that.. hes too talented to be placed in the least important position on the Oline. We would need a severe upgrade in talent for that to happen.

Anyway.. what im trying to say is.. I agree that he COULD be a good guard.. I was just trying to make people understand that there is NO reason to move him to guard at this point, and we WOULDNT be doing ourselves a favor by doing that right now. If we had 2 tackles more talented than Pitts..sure..move him to guard.. keep our best guys on the field.. but we dont, and we arent likely to any time soon.

Im repeating myself now.

Grid
12-24-2005, 03:17 AM
I could be mistaken MorKnolle.. but I beleive ESPN gives those kinds of stats.

Id check myself, but I hate wading through their site.. every time I go there it seems to take an eternity to load for some reason.

Grid
12-24-2005, 03:22 AM
Not as many as we'd win with this line:

LT=Wand LG=Pitts C=Hodgdon RG=Brown RT=Wade

Now you can start Weigert in place of Brown if the man can stay healthy for an entire season but a variation of that line won 7 games last year. Subtract McKinney (Expensive weak inside link) and put in Hodgdon (or really pretty much any NFL quality center) and let the winner of a Weigert/Brown/Weary competition start at RG and you're putting a better line on the field than you did this year or, arguably last year.

Draft another Tackle and if he can beat out Wand or Wade then let him.



Didn't Andre Johnson go to the Pro Bowl in 2004?


The logic of that is undeniable.. but I still think that we could benefit from more changes than that.

Specifically.. I think McKinney is a better guard ...So I would put Hodg in at C and move McKinney to LG, then id keep Pitts at LT where he has played well, and put Wand at RT :).

Then I would sign an FA RG like Steve Hutchinson to upgrade Brown at RG.

so.. actually.. thats pretty dang different than the line you are suggesting :).. but I think it could get us 9-10 wins instead of 7 :cool: