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RTP2110
12-20-2005, 09:29 PM
Ok, so we all know that when the Texans started playing, that added 53 more spots in the NFL player pool. So right now there are 53 guys playing in the NFL who wouldn't be playing if not for the Texans. Obviously we don't have all 53 of the bottom players, but spread out over 32 teams, thats 1 to 2 players who wouldn't be in the league. So my question is, who are the guys on the Texans now that probably would not make it in a 31 team league? The number of guys on the list should give us a good guage of the talent level of the Texans. Just a few names off of the top of my head who wouldn't make the cut, Ramon Walker, Matt Murphy, COREY BRADFORD lol.

Grid
12-20-2005, 09:32 PM
or to put it more simply..

who are your least favorite Texans?

:P

sprtsfanatic
12-20-2005, 09:50 PM
other than bradfords speed...I have NO IDEA what in the hell he is doing on the roster....im sorry but year after year this guy comes in and drops almost everything thrown to him...and most of them are when he is WIDE OPEN.

texplayer2
12-21-2005, 12:52 AM
Take our bench, add Bradford. Even there, though, he would play for a lot of teams in much the same way he currently plays for ours: in on a few downs and the coaches hoping he actually makes the catch. He is athletic, just unmotivated. We may have a few more basement players than other teams, but I think that in honesty, we are not as ridiculously unbalanced as our 2-12 record might suggest.

You are right, I don't believe we are as bad a team as the record indicates. I think the two teams we have beaten this year are worse than we are. I also think we are better than San Francisco, but that is still to be proved. Sometimes a shank or last second comeback just comes your way(snake eyes). We could /should have been around 5-6 wins this year. Still this wouldn't have been a positive place for this team.

touttail
12-21-2005, 08:17 AM
other than bradfords speed...I have NO IDEA what in the hell he is doing on the roster....im sorry but year after year this guy comes in and drops almost everything thrown to him...and most of them are when he is WIDE OPEN.

At the Cards game, the first pass thrown to Bradford:homer: was dropped, he was wide open too!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

ATX
12-21-2005, 08:19 AM
Sometimes I just can't understand how a WR can drop a ball thrown to him when he's wide open. I mean that's his job and seriously, how hard is it to catch a freaking football.

Honoring Earl 34
12-21-2005, 10:12 AM
:tv: What this team needs is some real All Pro type players to lead . They have three in Mathis , AJ , and Dunta Robinson who are talented enough to get there .

After those three is there anyone who has the ability to be in the top five at his position in the NFL ? If you go to top ten you may catch DD but he tends to get nicked .

Is it fair to say the Texans have four above average players ? Is it fair to say DD has reached his peak at maybe cracking the top ten ?

SESupergenius
12-21-2005, 12:02 PM
Just compare out starting lineups with almost any other teams and you can see that our's doesn't even compare. Who would Gaffney beat out at the #2 spot on most teams? Would Pitts be a LT on other teams? Wanna compare TE's? our cornerbacks are the worst in the league. Safeties, non of them would start for another team.

eriadoc
12-21-2005, 12:31 PM
Just compare out starting lineups with almost any other teams and you can see that our's doesn't even compare. Who would Gaffney beat out at the #2 spot on most teams? Would Pitts be a LT on other teams? Wanna compare TE's? our cornerbacks are the worst in the league. Safeties, non of them would start for another team.

Gaffney would seriously compete for the #2 role on:

Dolphins (Marty Booker)
Jets (ummm ..... was Chrebet, maybe)
Ravens (Clayton, rookie)
Browns (Edwards, rookie)
Titans (Roby or Calico)
KC (Parker?)
Chargers (no #2 guy?)
Giants (Toomer)
Eagles (Reg. Brown?)
Redskins (Thrash)
Bears (Gage)
Saints (Stallworth)
Seahawks (Engram?)

You may disagree with a few of those, but you get the point. Gaffney is not as near as bad as people like to make out - it's our offense in general. Teams can do just fine without a stud #2 WR. Gaffney runs routes well and has good hands. When he's targeted, he does fine. He has a higher percentage of catches per target than any other WR on our team - something to think about. Mathis would probably be a pretty good #3 WR, as would Armstrong, on most teams.

As for Pitts, he would probably get a shot at LT on any of about 10-12 teams and he'd probably be a starting guard on many more. The remaining 20ish teams either have a solid left tackle (drafted in the top 20 for most of them) or they have a right tackle they are grooming for the spot (Oakland comes to mind).

Cornerbacks worst in the league? Robinson may well be the best young corner in the league and he's certainly in the top 15 of all CBs in the NFL. While Buchanon has drawn the ire of fans here for his Deion-like tackling ability, take a look at what some other teams have at their #2 CB spot. It's not pretty.

Safeties - I can't say I know enough about other teams' safeties to comment intelligently. I will say that our two guys show promise. It's a shame that McCree was run out of town in favor of Coleman. While he wasn't a game-changer, he was/is a steady performer.

We have plenty of talent deficiency on this team, but people tend to overlook what talent we do have and how badly much of it is being misutilized. We have no TE to speak of; I'll give you that. But this team is fairly set for a year or two more at WR, QB, RB, and FB (Norris would start for quite a few teams as a blocking FB) on offense. At least two of our offensive linemen would have starting jobs on other teams as well (Pitts, Wiegert), and maybe Wade, maybe McKinney at LG. On defense, I really think Babin would be a better player if he hadn't been drafted by us. Greenwood did and would start for another team. Wong did and probably still would (knee injury notwithstanding) start for another team. Gary Walker, when healthy is a solid NFL starter. Payne is a valuable commodity that is often overlooked, partially because he's quiet and partially because most people don't have a clue what a nose tackle's real job is. Travis Johnson is a rookie, but he'd be getting plenty of chances on another team.

All in all, this team has the talent to be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6. That is why 2-12 is so unacceptable. This team isn't the 49ers, who truly are bereft of talent at most positions and especially in key positions. This is a team of badly coached underachievers.

eriadoc
12-21-2005, 12:34 PM
Is it fair to say DD has reached his peak at maybe cracking the top ten ?

I doubt most running backs have reached the peak of their career in just their third season. When this offense rights itself, Davis' numbers will improve, as will everyone else's.

Marcus
12-21-2005, 12:56 PM
All in all, this team has the talent to be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6. That is why 2-12 is so unacceptable. This team isn't the 49ers, who truly are bereft of talent at most positions and especially in key positions. This is a team of badly coached underachievers.

Anyone ever think of an instance where fans of a bad football DID NOT say that their team is underachieving. Don't they ALWAYS say that their team is not playing up to the talent level?

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 01:05 PM
eriadoc nice post with the #2 receivers. Truth is with a different offensive scheme I can see Gaff being comparable to Reggie Wayne and T.J. Housh in our system. I also think that in time Mathis could be a Santana Moss type receiver. I have seen him play and catch enough to see alot of talent in the kid. Unfortunately he is not getting the opportunity to really do it on the field. He reminds me of Steve Smith when he first came into the league. Smith was a 3rd round draft pick and everyone thought he was fast, but he did not get his shot till late and look what he is doing now. I dont know if Mathis is as tough as Smith, but they have comparable measurables. As far as corner goes we dont have much talent. Most teams now are starting a true corner and then a tweener corner for extra tackling. That is likely why I am so high on Jimmy Williams and Michael Huff. Cedric Griffin and Marcus Maxey could also be late round steals for us at corner. Our line is two players away from solid. Weigert and Pitts are solid, and Hogdon and Wade are funtional. McKinney is serviceable at best and decent at LG, but his inflated contract does not match his output. Talent wise I think we are a coaching staff and a good draft away. Two OL, C/S tweener, rushing LB/DE, and run stopping LB. Bring these guys in either through the draft and FA and then put them with a coach that demands the best out of them and we will se a huge turnaround (even though 2-12 only can go up)

SESupergenius
12-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Gaffney would seriously compete for the #2 role on:

Dolphins (Marty Booker)
Jets (ummm ..... was Chrebet, maybe)
Ravens (Clayton, rookie)
............

You may disagree with a few of those, but you get the point. Gaffney is not as near as bad as people like to make out - it's our offense in general. .

Gaffney isn't great, he's a solid reciever, but I wouldn't call him a playmakers. If a ball isn't throw right at him he's not getting it. That's what seperates great WR's from ok ones. He is an ok reciever that isn't really going to beat too many CB's.


As for Pitts, he would probably get a shot at LT on any of about 10-12 teams and he'd probably be a starting guard on many more. The remaining 20ish teams either have a solid left tackle (drafted in the top 20 for most of them) or they have a right tackle they are grooming for the spot (Oakland comes to mind).
I think that is giving him too much credit. He's a slow learner and really isn't a clutch go to guy where we can say, le't run behind him, he'll get us the first down.


Cornerbacks worst in the league? Robinson may well be the best young corner in the league and he's certainly in the top 15 of all CBs in the NFL. While Buchanon has drawn the ire of fans here for his Deion-like tackling ability, take a look at what some other teams have at their #2 CB spot. It's not pretty.
Robinson is without a doubt a good corner. But it's the whole unit I'm talking about. Buchanon, Sanders, Faggins all are not even close to being good. We lost talent in Wright and Glenn. we replaced it with Buchanon and promote a dimeback to starter, that should have given you a glue in the offseason how this unit was going to perform.


We have plenty of talent deficiency on this team, but people tend to overlook what talent we do have and how badly much of it is being misutilized. We have no TE to speak of; I'll give you that. But this team is fairly set for a year or two more at WR, QB, RB, and FB (Norris would start for quite a few teams as a blocking FB) on offense. At least two of our offensive linemen would have starting jobs on other teams as well (Pitts, Wiegert), and maybe Wade, maybe McKinney at LG. On defense, I really think Babin would be a better player if he hadn't been drafted by us. Greenwood did and would start for another team. Wong did and probably still would (knee injury notwithstanding) start for another team. Gary Walker, when healthy is a solid NFL starter. Payne is a valuable commodity that is often overlooked, partially because he's quiet and partially because most people don't have a clue what a nose tackle's real job is. Travis Johnson is a rookie, but he'd be getting plenty of chances on another team.

All in all, this team has the talent to be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6. That is why 2-12 is so unacceptable. This team isn't the 49ers, who truly are bereft of talent at most positions and especially in key positions. This is a team of badly coached underachievers.I don't disagree too much with you, but the fact remails at 7-9 as you suggest, we are still a team that lacks a lot of talent to make us a 11 win or better team. We absolutely underachieved with only 2 wins this season, but a lot of us saw this coming with the offseason fiasco. This offseasone we need to undo the problems we created last offseaons by bringing in a solid ILB and a veteran CB that doesn't have issues. We add a guard and/or tackle, TE and safety to our mix and we can settle for hope on a 8 win season.

aj.
12-21-2005, 01:22 PM
Drop Howard Mudd and Tom Moore in here and our o-line would immediately be a lot more 'talented.'

eriadoc
12-21-2005, 01:29 PM
I think that is giving him too much credit. He's a slow learner and really isn't a clutch go to guy where we can say, le't run behind him, he'll get us the first down.

It wasn't intended to give too much credit to Pitts. It was moreso intended to be a commentary on the general lack of LT talent in the NFL. I posted a couple weeks ago with every LT starter in the NFL and Pitts is right there with the bottom 10-12 teams who are either starting guards at the tackle position or they're grooming a 1st round guy at RT.

As for Gaffney, I've seen the guy go up and make some nice catches and I've seen him make some nice fingertip catches. I agree that he's not a gamebreaker, but my point was you don't need a gamebreaker at the #2 WR position - look at all the teams without one. Add to that the fact that our "gamebreaker" WR has a case of the dropsies and I'd much rather see the #2 guy be a reliable target. Just catch it, please.

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 01:33 PM
Pitts is not a Guard. Please board stop calling him that he is a mauling RT playing LT. Maybe later in his career he will be a guard but right now he has the ability to be a good RT. I hope Wade can play RG next year though. I would like to see Pitts, Weigert, Bentley/Hogdon, Wade, Winston. That would be my dream line. We would also have Davin Joseph on the bench to come in and relieve either Weigert or Wade. Damn that is a nasty young line that will get the job done in pass and run blocking. Also, Gaffney is just as much a playmaker as T.J. Housh. He just needs the opportunity to show it.

jmerog
12-21-2005, 01:54 PM
other than bradfords speed...I have NO IDEA what in the hell he is doing on the roster....im sorry but year after year this guy comes in and drops almost everything thrown to him...and most of them are when he is WIDE OPEN.

Why is everyone so hard on bradford. I'll bet he would be AMAZING pulling a rickshaw......(untill he quit, as he does on most plays)

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 02:07 PM
:homer: Pitts is not a Guard. Please board stop calling him that he is a mauling RT playing LT. Maybe later in his career he will be a guard but right now he has the ability to be a good RT. I hope Wade can play RG next year though. I would like to see Pitts, Weigert, Bentley/Hogdon, Wade, Winston. That would be my dream line. We would also have Davin Joseph on the bench to come in and relieve either Weigert or Wade. Damn that is a nasty young line that will get the job done in pass and run blocking. Also, Gaffney is just as much a playmaker as T.J. Housh. He just needs the opportunity to show it.


Pitts is build to be a pro-bowl type guard, however, I think he can be a serviceable LT and an above average RT. My only fear is that he has never played a down of football on the right side and this may pose some problems. Most people can handle the transition but not all.

Wade is NOT a guard. The dude is 6-7. Guards are short, strong, and have excellent leverage. There is no way Wade could get his pad level low enough to play guard. Wade is a tackle for better or worse.

My plan for the o-line:
Pitts/Draft (let them compete for LT job) - McKinney - LeCharles Bently (FA from Saints) - Weigart - Pitts/Draft (loser of LT competition).

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 02:20 PM
my problem b-diddy is pitts is not a pro bowl guard. He did not play guard till he got into the NFL and he was ok, maybe even above average. He would have the same effect at RT. Wade can play guard. Two of the best guards in the league, Hutchinson and Faneca are both 6.5. Wade is every bit of 6.6 and some quarters. He can make it work and at his 30M price tag he should make it work. think about the right side of the line. Wade could dig in and get the job done, the problem that he would have would be to consistently get his pad level down, but it does not have to be that low with the increase in size of DTs. Not sure why you want to keep McKinney, unless you want to resign him to a much smaller deal. If that is the case why not sign his younger brother to come in and play C/G.

TEXANRED
12-21-2005, 02:26 PM
or to put it more simply..

who are your least favorite Texans?

:P

Pbuc-cant cover
Babbin-cant cover, plays out of position(c'mon it's year 2)
Greenwood-Can't cover, Can't tackle, Can't sack-but he's fast
Hollings-Is he still on the team?
Wade-Cant block
Brown-false start, can't block
Wong-I know he is popular but i dont think he is a good starting LB
Bradford-need I say it?
Mckinney-Nothing more than a speed bump
Rivers-can't block, can't catch, could'nt run a rout to save his life
Bruner-why is he on the team?

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 02:30 PM
Pbuc-cant cover
Babbin-cant cover, plays out of position(c'mon it's year 2)
Greenwood-Can't cover, Can't tackle, Can't sack-but he's fast
Hollings-Is he still on the team?
Wade-Cant block
Brown-false start, can't block
Wong-I know he is popular but i dont think he is a good starting LB
Bradford-need I say it?
Mckinney-Nothing more than a speed bump
Rivers-can't block, can't catch, could'nt run a rout to save his life
Bruner-why is he on the team?

Babin cant cover but is getting better not the monster the staff thought he was
Greenwood cant cover, cant tackle and is not very fast for his size decently smart
Wong is a solid veteran that can tackle and cover and in a pinch make a play
Bruener is on the team because he is the best blocking TE in the league

other than the guys I mentioned I regretfully agree with your assessment

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 02:32 PM
my problem b-diddy is pitts is not a pro bowl guard. He did not play guard till he got into the NFL and he was ok, maybe even above average. He would have the same effect at RT. Wade can play guard. Two of the best guards in the league, Hutchinson and Faneca are both 6.5. Wade is every bit of 6.6 and some quarters. He can make it work and at his 30M price tag he should make it work. think about the right side of the line. Wade could dig in and get the job done, the problem that he would have would be to consistently get his pad level down, but it does not have to be that low with the increase in size of DTs. Not sure why you want to keep McKinney, unless you want to resign him to a much smaller deal. If that is the case why not sign his younger brother to come in and play C/G.

You have to look at body types, Hutchison and Faneca are 6-5 but built like a mack truck. Todd Wade is 6-6, lean, has long legs and arms (classic tackle attributes), and stiff. Listen Wade has never played guard at any level including for the Dolphins. Wade's body type is Tackle or bust. DT are generally 6-1 - 6-4 at the biggest and are squatty. Wade is too gangly to play guard.

Chester was drafted to ultimately play guard. He was forced into to the LT position as a rookie because of a lack of talent. He is exactly what Wade is not, a strong, thick, atheletic o-lineman. I think he should very good potential at guard last year, remember he was having to cover up some of Seth Wands less-than-steller play at LT last year. However, I think he can be a good RT, especially since he will have a TE on this side on the majority of plays. I still worry about transitioning from the left to the right side. This might sound stupid, but as someone who has played o-line - it is night and day.

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 02:38 PM
bdiddy i was a RB so I understand how you are thinking. I really think that Wade could get the job done more out of neccesity rather than talent. I just cant deal with having a 30M contract on the bench and that is were he belongs. I do think that Chester can transistion to the right side pretty easily. He has the feet and hips for it as my coach would say. Nice to see a fellow ball player on the board, hope you will be bringing the meat with your post.

stevo3883
12-21-2005, 02:39 PM
You have to look at body types, Hutchison and Faneca are 6-5 but built like a mack truck. Todd Wade is 6-6, lean, has long legs and arms (classic tackle attributes), and stiff. Listen Wade has never played guard at any level including for the Dolphins. Wade's body type is Tackle or bust. DT are generally 6-1 - 6-4 at the biggest and are squatty. Wade is too gangly to play guard.



Wade is actually 6-8

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 03:01 PM
Wade is actually 6-8

The Rockets could use a big man.

I agree with Coach C I think that Chester can transition to the right side. Todd Wade is going to be the most expensive back up in the NFL, but hopefully the new regime will come in and play the best players not the most highly paid players. We have to suck it up and give our thanks to Casserly for yet another wonderful decision. I do not understand why Wade has such difficulty with pass blocking. He is an above average run blocker, but FAR below average pass blocker, even with help from a tight end. May be it is poor coaching, he was at least adequate at pass blocking in Miami. I fear it could be his slow transition to the zone blocking scheme.

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 03:05 PM
In Miami he had a huge problem with speed rushers. It just seems that this year he had the same problem and a nagging injury that would made him an easy target to bull rush also. He has some of the slowest feet for a tackle that I have seen in the current NFL.

Honoring Earl 34
12-21-2005, 03:31 PM
:tv: If you think about it Breuner may have been the best Free Agent pick up the Texans have had .

The impact needs are an OT . If we find a LT ... Pitts fills the RT need .

If we play a 4 - 3 can Babin and Peek play DE ? Can TJ and Robaire play DT ? Who's going to play Middle Linebacker .

Will Bennie ever see the field . Is a TE who can be a threat as a reciever a need for the first three rounds .

I ' ll be shocked if PBuch is back ... This trade might also get CC . We need a capable CB .

So a LT 1st rd followed by the best of ( CB , TE , LB ) for the next three picks .

Honoring Earl 34
12-21-2005, 03:50 PM
:redtowel: The good news is the strength of the draft is OTs , DL , LBs and TEs . The weak points are QBs , WRs , and CBs .

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 04:27 PM
:tv: If you think about it Breuner may have been the best Free Agent pick up the Texans have had .

The impact needs are an OT . If we find a LT ... Pitts fills the RT need .

If we play a 4 - 3 can Babin and Peek play DE ? Can TJ and Robaire play DT ? Who's going to play Middle Linebacker .

Will Bennie ever see the field . Is a TE who can be a threat as a reciever a need for the first three rounds .

I ' ll be shocked if PBuch is back ... This trade might also get CC . We need a capable CB .

So a LT 1st rd followed by the best of ( CB , TE , LB ) for the next three picks .

I am not in favor to switching to the 4-3 immediately. I think we have to many needs on offense that must be addressed first. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I think Wade Phillips should be hired because he has coached both the 3-4 and 4-3. We need to evaluate his version of the 3-4 because this is how our current roster is designed. However, if after 1-2 years under Phillip's 3-4 we still are not getting it done, then it may be time to transition to a 4-3. By this time we can focus the draft on defensive players because hopefully the offensive needs will have been addressed.

Addressing our current players and the 4-3: There is no doubt we would have more than enough DT because currently all of our lineman (Walker, Payne, Smith, and Johnson) would play this position. However, we do not have any true DEs. Babin could probably gain 10-15 lbs. and be a decent DE, but I think is lack of bulk would make him impractical to cover the run. Peek currently weighs 250, he may be able to get to 260-265 but once again this is too light to play every down.

Linebackers would be a problem as well. We have no true middle linebacker for a 4-3. Greenwood could move to the outside and be effective as he was in Miami. Wong would play the outside as he did with the Vikings, however, who plays the middle. Peek and Orr could also play the outside, but not middle linebacker.

Our current roster is not well suited for the 4-3. We cannot correct it all in one offseason. Our biggest needs are to improve the o-line, get a quality TE, and a defensive playmaker. We may be able to do all of these this offseason. However, we cannot do these things in addition to bringing in additional guys needed to properly run the 4-3. I do not believe we will be switching schemes this year, thus, Wade Phillips will likely be our next coach.