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HoustonBound
12-20-2005, 07:15 PM
i was looking at Dom Capers Records and like i have realized once he leaves a team.... they get better... look at the panthers... they were HORRIBLE and then he leaves and then like right after BANG hes they are in the super bowl... and look at the jags... i hate to say this... but they are good.... so i mean... if anyone it hink we shoudl get carrol from USC and let him choose our draft pics... cause i mean... if he accually got lienart or something... imagine what he could do with our franchise O_O...

Grid
12-20-2005, 07:20 PM
I beleive Carrol has already said he isnt leaving.

infantrycak
12-20-2005, 07:42 PM
I beleive Carrol has already said he isnt leaving.

And he will continue to do so until such time as the national championship game is over and they have the press announcement for him leaving. Not saying he is coming here or even leaving USC but of course that is what he will say.

WittTexan
12-20-2005, 08:06 PM
i was looking at Dom Capers Records and like i have realized once he leaves a team.... they get better... look at the panthers... they were HORRIBLE and then he leaves and then like right after BANG hes they are in the super bowl... and look at the jags... i hate to say this... but they are good.... so i mean... if anyone it hink we shoudl get carrol from USC and let him choose our draft pics... cause i mean... if he accually got lienart or something... imagine what he could do with our franchise O_O...


What the hell are you talking about? After Dom left Carolina, George Seifert was hired and had two average seasons (8-8 in 1999 and 7-9 in 2000) and then went on in 2001 to coach the team to a 1-15 record with 15 straight losses. Only after John Fox was hired in 2002 and management brought in skilled players did they finally start winning. 5 years after Dom was fired, not overnight buddy.

The year before Dom was in Jacksonville, the Jaguars total defense ranked 25th and 17th in total points allowed. In his first year as defense cordinator the Jags ranked 4th in total defense and 1st in total points allowed. Dom was in Jacksonville for two years and they had a top ten defense both years. After Dom left, the Jags had three losing seasons at 6-10, 6-10 and 5-11 and have yet to reach the playoffs.

Sorry bud, like 99% of the posters here, you just dont know what you are talking about. I have followed Dom since he was a DB coach with the Saints and its sad because you guys are letting go a good coach who just has no talent to work with.

Grid
12-20-2005, 08:39 PM
its sad because you guys are letting go a good coach who just has no talent to work with

I was with ya to this point.

you dont go 2-12 cause you lost a veteran or two on defense.

Dom's biggest problem in houston has been Casserly, Fangio, and Pendry/Palmer.

I think he COULD be a good HC.. but he needs some help from his coordinators/GM

sprtsfanatic
12-20-2005, 08:48 PM
I was with ya to this point.

you dont go 2-12 cause you lost a veteran or two on defense.

Dom's biggest problem in houston has been Casserly, Fangio, and Pendry/Palmer.

I think he COULD be a good HC.. but he needs some help from his coordinators/GM

thats a very good point and point well taken. He does seem to have the motivational skills to get this team to come out and FIGHT for him EVERY game...this team could have given up and thrown in the towel a LONG time ago..but day in and day out this team shows up and shows a tremendous amount of heart...now the play calling on the other hand has just been a disaster.

So I'll have to agree with grid here on his asessment of the coaching staff thus far.

WittTexan
12-20-2005, 09:28 PM
I was with ya to this point.

you dont go 2-12 cause you lost a veteran or two on defense.

Dom's biggest problem in houston has been Casserly, Fangio, and Pendry/Palmer.

I think he COULD be a good HC.. but he needs some help from his coordinators/GM


But you do go 2-12 when your most experienced defensive back starter for the Cardinals game spent half a season on the practice squad in 2003. As Dom said Monday "Its awful hard to win football games, if guys are getting on the job training for 3 hours on game day".

The team simply lacks talent and depth.

Wolf
12-20-2005, 09:32 PM
But you do go 2-12 when your most experienced defensive back starter for the Cardinals game spent half a season on the practice squad in 2003. As Dom said Monday "Its awful hard to win football games, if guys are getting on the job training for 3 hours on game day".

The team simply lacks talent and depth.

exactly and you would think after 4 years we wouldn't still be as bad as we are now

WittTexan
12-20-2005, 09:38 PM
exactly and you would think after 4 years we wouldn't still be as bad as we are now

What does this mean?

pv1999
12-20-2005, 09:38 PM
thats a very good point and point well taken. He does seem to have the motivational skills to get this team to come out and FIGHT for him EVERY game...this team could have given up and thrown in the towel a LONG time ago..but day in and day out this team shows up and shows a tremendous amount of heart...now the play calling on the other hand has just been a disaster.

So I'll have to agree with grid here on his asessment of the coaching staff thus far.


...so let me get this straight, are you guys saying DOM didn't hire these coaches or approve the player signings? The guy is an excellent coordinator, but he's no head coach. Not if he signs off on just anything Casserly puts in front of him without knowing if its a thoroughbred or a mule. And last I checked we already had cheerleaders so if he can't one, call a game, two, pick good coaches AND three, work with his GM to get his type of players, he needs to go back to coordinating.

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 10:49 PM
But you do go 2-12 when your most experienced defensive back starter for the Cardinals game spent half a season on the practice squad in 2003. As Dom said Monday "Its awful hard to win football games, if guys are getting on the job training for 3 hours on game day".

The team simply lacks talent and depth.

This offensive unit has ALL the key players it had on the squad last year -- Wand, Pitts, McKinney, Wiegert, Wade, Carr, DD, Norris, Wells, AJ, Gaffney, Bradford, Bruener, and Armstrong, to name a few. This offense has performed pathetically under Capers this year, yet they performed very well last year for well over half the season. Did these players suddenly lose their talent? On defense, we returned 9 of 11 starters, and we have Gary walker back at full strength this year. Two players changed and all of a sudden we're so much more lacking in talent?

Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.

WWJD
12-20-2005, 11:06 PM
I think Dom is the defensive version of Norv Turner. Very good coordinators but perhaps not good head coaches. They both should go back to (and probably will) what they really excel at.

texplayer2
12-20-2005, 11:29 PM
This offensive unit has ALL the key players it had on the squad last year -- Wand, Pitts, McKinney, Wiegert, Wade, Carr, DD, Norris, Wells, AJ, Gaffney, Bradford, Bruener, and Armstrong, to name a few. This offense has performed pathetically under Capers this year, yet they performed very well last year for well over half the season. Did these players suddenly lose their talent? On defense, we returned 9 of 11 starters, and we have Gary walker back at full strength this year. Two players changed and all of a sudden we're so much more lacking in talent?

Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.

I think the two we let go on defense did hurt us, but trying to compare years is hard. Last year we played decent the first half of the season and began sputtering at the end. Was it the talent level on the other teams that has made the difference? Our strength of schedule this year has been tough? Our offense never has WOWed anybody the entire four years. But Dom's defense has made us respectable even in defeat. This year though, the defense couldn't even get a turnover until 3-4 weeks ago, and everyone has been expecting the offense to come of age and save us. The Leadership on the team has not matured and on Defense we got rid of a Leader with no one to take his place. The coach I believe has to find Leadership on the field and develope it. That has not happened on this team.( Similar to Mariuchi's reason for leaving Detroit). If you hire a nice guy to paint your house, but he doesn't use the right paint, you will have to find someone else to do the job. If the Talent isn't developing on the team, then you have to find someone who can develope it.

Coach C.
12-20-2005, 11:32 PM
I think last year was a failure to adjust. Dom's staff has had a problem making adjustments for their whole coaching tenure. I mean as time wore on we saw less Andre and instead of adjusting to the double teams he was facing by moving him and different routes, he became a very athletic decoy, which carried over to this year.

texplayer2
12-20-2005, 11:36 PM
As Dom said Monday "Its awful hard to win football games, if guys are getting on the job training for 3 hours on game day".

The team simply lacks talent and depth.

You are not going to get the top pick in the draft or be able to raid other teams every year. You have to be able do develope these mens skills and game plan on their strengths. No team can stock pile talents(it cost to much). You have to figure out who you can't do with out and work on the other guys. This is why Pete loves college football, he doesn't have to wait on getting the top draft picks he can just go and recruit them all and run his system. I think in the NFL you must adapt your system to your players.

DRAMA
12-20-2005, 11:52 PM
I think last year was a failure to adjust.....


Or as Dom says, "A failure to execute."

:)

HJam72
12-21-2005, 01:32 AM
You are not going to get the top pick in the draft or be able to raid other teams every year. You have to be able do develope these mens skills and game plan on their strengths. No team can stock pile talents(it cost to much). You have to figure out who you can't do with out and work on the other guys. This is why Pete loves college football, he doesn't have to wait on getting the top draft picks he can just go and recruit them all and run his system. I think in the NFL you must adapt your system to your players.

Bingo. And you don't fire an OC only to bring in a less capable one, while keeping an incapable DC, and wait almost 4 years before finding out that your QB can call his own plays better than both of those OCs in the first place. I might not actually mind keeping Capers (maybe) if McNair told him, "You don't decide who your coordinators will be. I do. But, you can control the defense all you want."

ATX_Texan
12-21-2005, 07:47 AM
its sad because you guys are letting go a good coach who just has no talent to work with

So, all the blame falls on Casserly? It is funny because Casserly and his defenders are always saying that Casserly was only picking the players that Capers wanted.

I feel that Capers and Casserly need to go because both are responsible for the mess that we have right now. Most successful teams have a staff all on the same page that drafts with a certain phillosphy. Casserly took a defensive minded coach and put him with a wide-open offensive coordinator. He then used draft picks on offensive players more suited for an offense not favored by the head coach. It seems like all the defensive picks have been influenced by Capers (especially the busts like Babin). However, we have no reason for the way the offense was built. I think Capers' defense first philosphy is the reason why things like the offensive line were ignored in the draft.

In Carolina, they built an experienced defense using the expansion draft which would make the team competitive quickly and then they were attempting to create an offense using the draft. The hope was to have the offense catch up with the defense over time. It appears that Capers brought the same plan here to Houston. The problem in both cases was that the defense quickly got old and the offense players drafted never panned out. Capers deserves to go because he did not learn from his Carolina experience and he is now reliving it again.

Erratic Assassin
12-21-2005, 07:54 AM
The team simply lacks talent and depth.

And that falls squarely on Casserly's shoulders. If anyone goes it should be Casserly. He's had 4 years to build this team and we we're worse now than we were as an expansion team.

Keyser Soze
12-21-2005, 08:54 AM
So, all the blame falls on Casserly? It is funny because Casserly and his defenders are always saying that Casserly was only picking the players that Capers wanted.


If that were true, there would be no need for a GM. Save the salary and let the coach do the picking.

Like you said, both Capers and Casserly are culpable. Capers has lost the team, and IMO it's because his subordinate coaches failed him. His failure was in not recognizing their faults.

PBuc and Babin will be the skeletons in Casserly's closet after this. He's made some pretty high profile bad moves on talent assessment. He was totally snakebit with Jopru.

Speaking of Jopru, I just looked up an old pre-draft article on that class. They called Jopru "durable".

Jack Bauer
12-21-2005, 09:09 AM
Capers has lost the team

Capers did not "lose" the team. I do see just as much effort now as I saw at the beginning of the season. There may have been a lull in effort during the middle of the season, but they righted the ship concerning effort.

Speaking of Jopru, I just looked up an old pre-draft article on that class. They called Jopru "durable".

Until he came to the Texans, he had never missed a game from what I remember. So the "durable" tag was appropriate at the time.

BigDTexansFan
12-21-2005, 12:15 PM
thats a very good point and point well taken. He does seem to have the motivational skills to get this team to come out and FIGHT for him EVERY game...this team could have given up and thrown in the towel a LONG time ago..but day in and day out this team shows up and shows a tremendous amount of heart...now the play calling on the other hand has just been a disaster.

So I'll have to agree with grid here on his asessment of the coaching staff thus far.


I agree, let's let Carr call plays on offense and let Dom Call D and I bet we have a better season next year

Keyser Soze
12-21-2005, 12:39 PM
Capers did not "lose" the team. I do see just as much effort now as I saw at the beginning of the season. There may have been a lull in effort during the middle of the season, but they righted the ship concerning effort.


Let me ask you something. How much time did you spend this season watching our sidelines? Not much probably, and most people don't. I did, and what I saw in this season was a team that had tuned out the coach. They haven't rebelled, but they were indifferent to him. I saw coaches having to grab Carr by the elbow to get his attention and focus on the material they wanted to discuss with him. I sat there and watched it.

No question the effort is there now. Truthfully they were coming around before Reeves arrived, but with him in the box everyone knows every step is being examined anew. Being associated with this season's Texans team isn't good for anybody's resume, so now players are really putting out the effort to show "the problem wasn't with ME". Their careers are at stake, and everybody assumes there will be a new coaching staff next year, so no one wants to get zeroed in on as the problem the new coaches focus on.

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 01:23 PM
Dom's a great guy and a very good defensive football coach BUT he plays not to lose games. Dom's favorite line is "we want to play to be in it in the fourth quarter." Screw that, we want to play so that our reserves get some game time action in the fourth quarter because we are ahead by 21. Passive play is useless in football, it is an aggressive game and the aggressor wins. I still believe that defense wins games, but you have to try and make plays THE WHOLE game on offense. Will you lose a few games because of untimely turnover - yes, but you will win more because of your aggressiveness. The Texans have to force other teams to make mistakes. Right now we play passive and allow the other team to dictate the game, especially in the second half. Thus, late in the game the other team's aggressiveness forces us to make mistakes. Dom's fault is his over-conservative offensive philosophy. He has to live with a few losses due to poor offensive decision, so that the offense can also win a few games for him as well.

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 01:41 PM
Dom's a great guy and a very good defensive football coach BUT he plays not to lose games. Dom's favorite line is "we want to play to be in it in the fourth quarter." Screw that, we want to play so that our reserves get some game time action in the fourth quarter because we are ahead by 21. Passive play is useless in football, it is an aggressive game and the aggressor wins. I still believe that defense wins games, but you have to try and make plays THE WHOLE game on offense. Will you lose a few games because of untimely turnover - yes, but you will win more because of your aggressiveness. The Texans have to force other teams to make mistakes. Right now we play passive and allow the other team to dictate the game, especially in the second half. Thus, late in the game the other team's aggressiveness forces us to make mistakes. Dom's fault is his over-conservative offensive philosophy. He has to live with a few losses due to poor offensive decision, so that the offense can also win a few games for him as well.

Damn do I agree with this statement. Props pimpin way to bring meat.

djkennedy101
12-21-2005, 03:37 PM
I know this has been said before but man it just sounds right....Dan Reeves GM.....Gary Kubiak Head Coach....can't wait for next year!!!!

GoneTexan
12-21-2005, 03:40 PM
Dom's a great guy and a very good defensive football coach BUT he plays not to lose games. Dom's favorite line is "we want to play to be in it in the fourth quarter." Screw that, we want to play so that our reserves get some game time action in the fourth quarter because we are ahead by 21. Passive play is useless in football, it is an aggressive game and the aggressor wins. I still believe that defense wins games, but you have to try and make plays THE WHOLE game on offense. Will you lose a few games because of untimely turnover - yes, but you will win more because of your aggressiveness. The Texans have to force other teams to make mistakes. Right now we play passive and allow the other team to dictate the game, especially in the second half. Thus, late in the game the other team's aggressiveness forces us to make mistakes. Dom's fault is his over-conservative offensive philosophy. He has to live with a few losses due to poor offensive decision, so that the offense can also win a few games for him as well.

Absolutely! I would add that the Head Coach should also be creative and unpredictable! How many trick plays do we see in a season? Maybe bring in a triple wing back formation… punt out of the shotgun…fake field goals or extra points…flee flickers! These may not all work but at least it shows that we have something in the bag. Keep the opponent on their toes and we can then start pounding them to the ground! :twocents:

ATX_Texan
12-21-2005, 03:56 PM
I would add that the Head Coach should also be creative and unpredictable!

You are right and this is one of Capers' weaknesses. He wants to be like the Packers in the 60's or the Steelers in the 70's and force his will on the other team. The great modern teams are able to make adjustments, run different offensive sets and take advantage of mismatches. You have to be willing to take some risks. Things that a Capers' team will never do.

Marcus
12-21-2005, 03:58 PM
Dom's a great guy and a very good defensive football coach BUT he plays not to lose games. Dom's favorite line is "we want to play to be in it in the fourth quarter." Screw that, we want to play so that our reserves get some game time action in the fourth quarter because we are ahead by 21. Passive play is useless in football, it is an aggressive game and the aggressor wins. I still believe that defense wins games, but you have to try and make plays THE WHOLE game on offense. Will you lose a few games because of untimely turnover - yes, but you will win more because of your aggressiveness. The Texans have to force other teams to make mistakes. Right now we play passive and allow the other team to dictate the game, especially in the second half. Thus, late in the game the other team's aggressiveness forces us to make mistakes. Dom's fault is his over-conservative offensive philosophy. He has to live with a few losses due to poor offensive decision, so that the offense can also win a few games for him as well.

I see. So Capers' conservative philosophy is why they are 2-12? That other poster may be right when said 99% of you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 04:04 PM
I see. So Capers' conservative philosophy is why they are 2-12? That other poster may be right when said 99% of you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

If we showed a little more aggression we would have won at least 3-4 of the following games: (1) Bengals, (2) first Jacksonville matchup, and (3) three previous games before Cardinals. We are talking about 5-9 or 6-8 right now, with minimal changes. Have a chance to go 7-9 or 8-8 with our current mediocre talent and poor offensive scheme.

If I am way off on this I must be an *****. Thanks for the personal insult by the way, this is forum is for fans not haters.

Tulip
12-21-2005, 04:11 PM
I see. So Capers' conservative philosophy is why they are 2-12? That other poster may be right when said 99% of you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

Well, I'm open to an alternative explanation for the Texans' dropoff in OFFENSIVE production this season, when the only major personnel changes from the front office were the additions of Morency, Mathis, and Riley.

I'll gladly entertain any non-coaching theories on that front. I just haven't heard any yet.

Keyser Soze
12-21-2005, 10:01 PM
You are right and this is one of Capers' weaknesses. He wants to be like the Packers in the 60's or the Steelers in the 70's and force his will on the other team. The great modern teams are able to make adjustments, run different offensive sets and take advantage of mismatches. You have to be willing to take some risks. Things that a Capers' team will never do.

I really agree with this. How many times have the Texans looked like a different team in the second half - and not for the better? It's like the other teams go into the locker room, make adjustments, and come out and handle business.

Bobo
12-22-2005, 01:05 AM
...so let me get this straight, are you guys saying DOM didn't hire these coaches or approve the player signings? The guy is an excellent coordinator, but he's no head coach.

What baloney. No one seemed to have had problems with him during his first three years. And the team is basically the same squad as last year.

eriadoc
12-22-2005, 08:50 AM
I really agree with this. How many times have the Texans looked like a different team in the second half - and not for the better? It's like the other teams go into the locker room, make adjustments, and come out and handle business.

I'm not sure where you're coming from. Everytime we've built up a halftime lead, we go into the locker room and make adjustments to stop that s--t.

:sarcasm:

Ryan
12-22-2005, 11:33 AM
i dont know why Pete Carrol would want to leave what is soon to be 3 national championships in a row to go to a 20 times below medicre football team.

HJam72
12-22-2005, 09:17 PM
Wait....um.........what the **** was I talkin' about? :confused: