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run-david-run
12-19-2005, 11:22 PM
One of the misconceptions I'm seeing on this board regard the TE position. People seem to think that simply getting a better TE will result in our offense being much better, but its not quite that simple. Willie Roaf was hurt for the first few games of the season and Tony Gonzalez's production fell way off. What this means is that even if we draft the next coming of Tony Gonzalez, it wont matter until we get some protection and allow our TE's to go out into routes instead of blocking. I think that poeple we currently have such as Rivers and possibly Joppru can do the job, if they are incoporated in the offense, the only way that happens is if we get O-line help. What this means is that IF we do go after D'Brick or Winston, etc... not only will they help Carr with the weapons he does have now (Aj, Gaff), they will also allow us to exploit the TE position even more...

Double Barrel
12-19-2005, 11:33 PM
It all starts with line play. It's the fundamental nature of solid football. There's an old saying about games being won or lost in the trenches. All the skill players in the world mean nothing if they have no holes to run through or the QB has no protection. Football 101.

That being said, I still wouldn't mind having a solid, well-rounded TE. With the option of both offering pass protection and WR capabilities (in a bigger body), it's a position that can offer you a lot of versatility.

I remember when the Oilers use to run a pure run and shoot offense, and had no TE or FB on the roster. It really limited what they could do and how they matched up against certain defenses. The lack of these positions as options is what eventually ended the reign of the pure "chuck and duck" offense.

beerlover
12-19-2005, 11:36 PM
I was impressed with Rivers this weekend, Bennie Joppru we can only hope. I'll tell you what I feel the Texans need is a go to - over the middle - sure handed = excellent route runner. I've watched this kid from Oregon State for a couple years now and he is the real deal, ideal #2 WR. with AJ the playmaker and Mathis the speed burner to stretch the field Mike Hass could work underneath and provide David a target inside the hash marks. He is a Steve Largent clutch type of WR & would help open up and balance the offense. I would also like the Texans to continue working Rivers into sets, this guy reminds me of a lean DE type body with punishing potential I think he is still just raw.

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 11:43 PM
I was impressed with Rivers this weekend, Bennie Joppru we can only hope. I'll tell you what I feel the Texans need is a go to - over the middle - sure handed = excellent route runner. I've watched this kid from Oregon State for a couple years now and he is the real deal, ideal #2 WR. with AJ the playmaker and Mathis the speed burner to stretch the field Mike Hass could work underneath and provide David a target inside the hash marks. He is a Steve Largent clutch type of WR & would help open up and balance the offense. I would also like the Texans to continue working Rivers into sets, this guy reminds me of a lean DE type body with punishing potential I think he is still just raw.
Hass is one of the top rated Wr's in the draft, I doubt we could draft him...

LORK 88
12-20-2005, 02:27 AM
I agree, a top O Line obviously helps out a TE greatly, but when your TEs are Matt Murphy and Mark Bruener, well, theres an improvement just drafting one!!! Houston just needs a TE who can catch and block and is athletic enough to do something on offense. Tim Day, Dominique Byrd, and Anthony Fasano all would be great pickups in the draft, and all would come during or after the 3rd round.

J-Storm
12-20-2005, 05:59 AM
I've been an advocate for a TE ever since Joppru went down again with injury. I'm not asking for the next Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap or Jeremy Shockey but something 1/2 as good would have to be better than what we have surely! We had a shot @ 1 last year in Heath Miller and look what happened there idonno:

Seeing as we don't get a lot of coverage of college ball here in Australia could some people give me their opinions/insights into some of these guys listed below that I wouldn't mind perspectives of:
1. Marcedes Lewis (UCLA)
2. Dominique Byrd (Southern Cal)
3. Tim Day (Oregon)
4. Leonard Pope (Georgia)
5. Charles Davis (Purdue)

Thanks in advance for any help...

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 09:52 AM
I have not been impressed with Rivers. His catch-to-drop ratio has to be the worst in the NFL, I swear. He has stone hands and Bruener isn't much better. The problem with this team, as someone stated above, is our line play. If this line was a solid unit, then Billy Miller could still be doing well here. Granted, you might want a better TE that can block better than he, but the blocking issue wouldn't have been so paramount if our line were better. Hopefully, Joppru can come back this year and show that he belongs in the NFL and can block and catch.

run-david-run
12-20-2005, 09:55 AM
I have not been impressed with Rivers. His catch-to-drop ratio has to be the worst in the NFL, I swear. He has stone hands and Bruener isn't much better. The problem with this team, as someone stated above, is our line play. If this line was a solid unit, then Billy Miller could still be doing well here. Granted, you might want a better TE that can block better than he, but the blocking issue wouldn't have been so paramount if our line were better. Hopefully, Joppru can come back this year and show that he belongs in the NFL and can block and catch.
I would have said the same thing about Rivers in the beginning of the season, but he has been way better recently. I hope Jopru can come back and take over as our # 1 TE, but the most important part about having a TE is using him, that means having the ability to have your O-Linemen go one-on-one with D-Linemen, something we are not even close to having.

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 10:08 AM
I would have said the same thing about Rivers in the beginning of the season, but he has been way better recently. I hope Jopru can come back and take over as our # 1 TE, but the most important part about having a TE is using him, that means having the ability to have your O-Linemen go one-on-one with D-Linemen, something we are not even close to having.

He's been better recently, in terms of getting out in patterns and getting the ball thrown to him more frequently than earlier in the season. He dropped another, very easy, pass again versus the Cardinals, though. That's what I'm referring to. I just have a pet peeve about receivers dropping easy passes. That's what they get paid to do - receive.

El Tejano
12-20-2005, 02:10 PM
Man, Dave Thomas.

Coach C.
12-20-2005, 02:14 PM
TE or H-Backs are essential to the NFL now due to the mixes of Zone coverages and need to exploit mismatches. I personally dont think we need to draft a TE. Teyo Johnson- Big Receiving TE in the same mold as a poor man's Gates
Chris Baker- a blocking/receiving TE that has just enough speed to stretch the zone.
These two FAs could be interesting and then we would cut Murphy. That would five us Bruener- best blocking TE in the game, Johnson/Baker- receiving threat, Jopporu- who knows other than good at getting injured and Rivers- has been ok since we have started throwing to the TE more.

Kaiser Toro
12-20-2005, 02:16 PM
Rivers has been solid on Special Teams.

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 03:46 PM
Rivers has been solid on Special Teams.

I won't disagree with that. I've seen him bust up some wedges and I dig ST performers - those guys bust their butts. I like the guy; I just can't stand seeing our receivers (whoever it may be) dropping easy passes.

bdiddy
12-21-2005, 01:18 PM
One of the misconceptions I'm seeing on this board regard the TE position. People seem to think that simply getting a better TE will result in our offense being much better, but its not quite that simple. Willie Roaf was hurt for the first few games of the season and Tony Gonzalez's production fell way off. What this means is that even if we draft the next coming of Tony Gonzalez, it wont matter until we get some protection and allow our TE's to go out into routes instead of blocking. I think that poeple we currently have such as Rivers and possibly Joppru can do the job, if they are incoporated in the offense, the only way that happens is if we get O-line help. What this means is that IF we do go after D'Brick or Winston, etc... not only will they help Carr with the weapons he does have now (Aj, Gaff), they will also allow us to exploit the TE position even more...

I have posted this before and will admit I am an ND fan so I am slightly biased, however, I think Anthony Fasano would be perfect for the Texans. He is a very good blocker and has great hands. He is 6-4, 260 lbs., with decent speed for the position. Fasano is the prototype TE for a pro-style offense. I also believe he could be available as late as the third round allowing the Texans to address other needs earlier in the draft.

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 01:22 PM
I doubt Fasano goes before R4.

tsip
12-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Man, Dave Thomas.

...good choice--catches everything (including going deep and over the middle), good blocker, and good runner after the catch plus has decent size-

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 01:31 PM
Dave Thomas out of UT is also likely to not get grabbed up before R4. Still dont think we need a TE, but Thomas would not be a bad choice reminds me a little of Jason Witten

El Tejano
01-06-2006, 02:23 AM
I think after the game we all saw who is the #1 TE in the country. Dave Thomas better be wearing a Texan uniform this season. Dave Thomas - Open all day all night.

Grid
01-06-2006, 02:30 AM
Vernon Davis... we could get him in the first with a trade down.

Here is a thread on him with some Movies (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16444)

Its a shame that the KC trade for Herm Edwards looks like it isnt gonna go through.. if KC had given them their first rounder.. NY would have been the perfect candidate for a trade down. #4 and #20 pick.

oh well.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-06-2006, 02:34 AM
Don't forget, Matt Herrian (Nebraska) was one of the top prospects at the beginning of the year. He got hurt early in the season and had to rehab. He is a Senior and has not applied for a Med.-RS. If he performs well in combines I wouldn't mind taking him, Lewis, Byrd, Thomas, or any TE worth a d***.

El Tejano
01-06-2006, 02:36 AM
Do we really wanna go after a TE with an injury? I mean we can't afford anymore Bennie Jopprus.

texan279
01-06-2006, 02:38 AM
I was really impressed with David Thomas last night and he could be a nice pickup in the middle of the draft...

bubbajaxonbrown
01-06-2006, 02:42 AM
Do we really wanna go after a TE with an injury? I mean we can't afford anymore Bennie Jopprus.

He'd have a full year to recover. He's not injury prone. This was his first major injury and this includes 2 years run-blocking for the option offense. I've seen him play in person a couple of times and he catches tough passes up the middle.

Either way, I don't care. I'm not his agent. I just wanted ya'll to watch for him in case he did make a full recovery. He could be a low-round steal. I guarantee you b/c of his injury he won't go until day 2.
***Unless, he comes back as Heath Miller (who was injured his Senior year in college and has proven a good 1st round selection already in his rookie season with the Steelers - if only we could draft like them and the Patriots).***

HJam72
01-06-2006, 10:14 AM
It all starts with line play. It's the fundamental nature of solid football. There's an old saying about games being won or lost in the trenches. All the skill players in the world mean nothing if they have no holes to run through or the QB has no protection. Football 101.


Oh, but we don't need linemen. We just need a QB (who can run really fast) and ten world-class sprinters. :excited:

We'll call it the .0009 second drop offense. Football on speed. OK, for some players it would just be MORE speed.

bigTEXan8
01-06-2006, 10:48 AM
I'm all for taking David Thomas. I wouldn't mind getting him as early as the 2nd round, 3rd round at the latest. He did an amazing job finding the gaps in the coverage against USC. Did you guys see that grab he had jumping off his knee...I think it was end of the 2nd quarter?

El Tejano
01-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Or what about the TD catch in the Big 12 Championship? Athletic and versatile. Weren't we looking for that this year?

Scooter
01-06-2006, 12:22 PM
david thomas. of all of the players in the rose bowl, i think he'd make the biggest impact as a texan. followed closely by tatui and texas's LT (at a total loss for his name right now). everything thrown at him is caught, he picks up blitzes very well, great body control, and solid run after the catch. not to mention great awareness, always knowing exactly where the first down marker is. he just looked great blocking AND receiving ... using a 2nd or 3rd on him would be huge IMO.

Coach C.
01-06-2006, 12:28 PM
Thomas is a talented H-back and would be a welcome addition to the Texans in the later rounds. If he is not there on the second day I dont shed a tear though because I dont think we need to use a pick on a TE. There are enough in FA(with a new coach coming in we can attract them now) and we have three already that should get a look. Rivers is ok, Joppru who knows, and Bruener is the best blocking TE in the game.

BigBull17
01-06-2006, 12:47 PM
Dont know the name but what about the guy from Tulsa.
He looked solid in the 2 games of theirs ive seen

bigTEXan8
01-06-2006, 12:49 PM
Fresno State played them in the Liberty Bowl. He's good, but a little undersized. He's fast, so he out runs the LBs. You cover him with any safety in the league and you shut him down.

El Tejano
01-06-2006, 12:50 PM
I don't know his name but I do know he plays for Tulsa and didn't play great in the Rose Bowl. Funny, while everyone is going crazy for Bush or Young. I am adimant on getting this guy.