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RWBinJax
12-19-2005, 06:32 PM
Sorry if I intrude on the Texans' home site, but I have noticed several threads asking that Capers be fired.

If I remember correctly, he guided the Panthers from ground zero to a Super Bowl game. He seems to me, as an outsider (and Jag fan), to be a pretty darn good coach.

I asked these questions in a couple of places but never got an answer. So, I'll ask again. Is there some friction between the owners and Capers? Is there a salary cap issue?

If you have a minute or two, please provide your thoughts.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 06:39 PM
Only went to the NFC Champisonshup game. No cap issue. Need to develop players and cohesion

RWBinJax
12-19-2005, 06:44 PM
My bad. Forgot he only got to the NFC championship game. I stand corrected, and thank you.

HJam72
12-19-2005, 06:45 PM
Capers had an all-star team of veterans on that Panthers team. That was no expansion team. As soon as those veterans started losing a step/retiring, the Panthers started going downhill and Capers got fired. He's a nice guy and a good defensive coordinator, but his HC skills are just all wacked up.

Probably his biggest problem is that he's loyal to coordinators that are clueless.

RWBinJax
12-19-2005, 06:54 PM
He started the Panthers team when Coughlin starterted the Jags. Neither had a bunch of all stars. Frankly, Capers out-coached Coughlin.

Both the Panthers and Jags a had a great "pool" selection. The Texans were also granted a great selection and played well in year 1, despite the record. What happened?

All I know is that you routinely kick our (Jaguars) butts. Want to try to do that to someone besides us for a change? I hate to be singled out each year.

big homey
12-19-2005, 07:00 PM
Capers will get the axe because the fans won't respond well to keeping him, and McNair needs bodies in those seats. He is a victim of the terrible beast known as "The Fanbase".

UGA
12-19-2005, 07:14 PM
Capers and Casserly are being canned because after 4 years we are back in a "rebuilding" stage. No coach should get more then 4 years without ever hitting the .500 mark. This organization was given a 3 year grace period being that we were an expansion team, and now we are worse then we were initially.

Caper's and Cass are good guys, but theyve done a horrible job here.

ArlingtonTexan
12-19-2005, 07:15 PM
Capers will get the axe because the fans won't respond well to keeping him, and McNair needs bodies in those seats. He is a victim of the terrible beast known as "The Fanbase".

the fans don't respond well to a team did not have a lead until like the 6th game of year, has the same weaknesses for 4 years, and play a pretty uninteresting style of football. It is a production, not personal issue.

From all I can tell, Capers is a hardworking "salt of the earth" type of guy, but has only one plus .500 year in 8 years as a head coach. IMO, watching a decent guy not be productive at his job, yet maintain a high of professionalism is the downside of having a "public" profession.

RWBinJax
12-19-2005, 07:18 PM
Thanks for your comments.

touttail
12-19-2005, 07:38 PM
Sorry if I intrude on the Texans' home site, but I have noticed several threads asking that Capers be fired.

If I remember correctly, he guided the Panthers from ground zero to a Super Bowl game. He seems to me, as an outsider (and Jag fan), to be a pretty darn good coach.

I asked these questions in a couple of places but never got an answer. So, I'll ask again. Is there some friction between the owners and Capers? Is there a salary cap issue?

If you have a minute or two, please provide your thoughts.

Capers didn't guide the Panthers to a Super Bowl game! Where did you get that info?????

He was hired here because of his organizational skills having started up a franchise team, not for his coaching skills!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

touttail
12-19-2005, 07:41 PM
Capers will get the axe because the fans won't respond well to keeping him, and McNair needs bodies in those seats. He is a victim of the terrible beast known as "The Fanbase".

Capers :homer: won't be here because he has done nothing to improve this team. His conservative coaching stinks!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

Double Barrel
12-20-2005, 12:04 AM
the fans don't respond well to a team did not have a lead until like the 6th game of year, has the same weaknesses for 4 years, and play a pretty uninteresting style of football. It is a production, not personal issue.

From all I can tell, Capers is a hardworking "salt of the earth" type of guy, but has only one plus .500 year in 8 years as a head coach. IMO, watching a decent guy not be productive at his job, yet maintain a high of professionalism is the downside of having a "public" profession.

I agree, man. Well said. (the exact points I was going to bring up) :thumbup

I have nothing personal against the coach. It's just business. This 2-12 team needs an overhaul, and that usually includes the HC.

Scooter
12-20-2005, 08:59 PM
i think the reason capers has flopped is because head coach is too much for him to handle. a fundamental rule of leadership is being able to delegate authority. what little he has delegated, has been to poor individuals. by this i mean he stifled palmer, but gave fangio too much rope. what kept this from getting out of hand in the past was veterans on defense who knew better and made the guys around them better despite the circumstance ... offense has never had that luxory. also, his philosophy has lost him many fans and players. he knows nothing other as a head coach than brand new undeveloped teams and this has made him cautious to making mistakes. anyone who's every played a sport knows that if you focus solely on not making mistakes, that's when they happen. football is engrained in the players, his job as a head coach is to let them loose and put them in position to excell. he has to make it clear to everyone around him that he's going to win at all costs ... and since we've been debating that since he got here, he apparently hasnt done that.

capers was and is suited best for a defensive coordinator position because his duties are much more defined. it's as a DC that he's a teacher instead of a coach and that's his strong suit. i think it's his simpleness & softness that's made him unable to take the next step successfully. guys like belichick & cowher have a passion and need to win that's undeniable, although they go about it in entirely different ways. capers doesnt have the do or die mentality needed to carry a team.

Erratic Assassin
12-20-2005, 09:10 PM
Capers and Casserly are being canned because after 4 years we are back in a "rebuilding" stage...now we are worse then we were initially.

We have to "rebuild" ourselves back to the pathetic level of an expansion team.

How sick is that! Thank you for wasting 4 years of my life Casserly!

Grid
12-20-2005, 09:21 PM
We arent that bad off Erratic. We lost a step.. but we didnt revert to infancy. More capable coaching will give us a big boost.. but so will a couple of players in key areas.

We can be BETTER than we were last year by 2007. Meaning.. we can be back on track by the end of next season.. and be looking at playoff contention by 2007-2008.

HoustonFan
12-20-2005, 09:49 PM
Capers. Man. I'm actually feeling bad for the guy - to the point I wish he would just be demoted to defensive coordinator.

HJam72
12-21-2005, 02:50 AM
Capers. Man. I'm actually feeling bad for the guy - to the point I wish he would just be demoted to defensive coordinator.

THAT would be this team's best decision ever made. Somehow, some way, get him to except the position as DC and I'll get behind him 100%. No more pink soap, no more negative comments. The guy can coordinate a defense.

Someone said that he stifles the OC too much and gives the DC too much free reign (I think I agree with that) and that's exactly the opposite of what he should've been doing. He SHOULD be controlling a lot of the D and should realize that he's not the best offensive minded coach.

To cut through all the bull, Capers needs to see that he is a Defensive guy and that his judgement of others is too nice. If he can't deal with that, then not being a head coach in the first place will take care of that problem rather nicely. You're D is falling apart, while you let it, because you're too busy stifling the offense.

tsip
12-21-2005, 04:37 AM
i think the reason capers has flopped is because head coach is too much for him to handle. a fundamental rule of leadership is being able to delegate authority. what little he has delegated, has been to poor individuals. by this i mean he stifled palmer, but gave fangio too much rope. what kept this from getting out of hand in the past was veterans on defense who knew better and made the guys around them better despite the circumstance ... offense has never had that luxory. also, his philosophy has lost him many fans and players. he knows nothing other as a head coach than brand new undeveloped teams and this has made him cautious to making mistakes. anyone who's every played a sport knows that if you focus solely on not making mistakes, that's when they happen. football is engrained in the players, his job as a head coach is to let them loose and put them in position to excell. he has to make it clear to everyone around him that he's going to win at all costs ... and since we've been debating that since he got here, he apparently hasnt done that.

capers was and is suited best for a defensive coordinator position because his duties are much more defined. it's as a DC that he's a teacher instead of a coach and that's his strong suit. i think it's his simpleness & softness that's made him unable to take the next step successfully. guys like belichick & cowher have a passion and need to win that's undeniable, although they go about it in entirely different ways. capers doesnt have the do or die mentality needed to carry a team.

...very good post! IMO, Caper's philosophies or lack there of were and will be his down fall. He 'coaches not to lose' and is a micro-manager that has to have his hand on everything. He is not a problem solver (hence poor game planning) and is very rigid in his beliefs---how many times have we heard it was not his plan that was faulty but was the execution of that plan. It says a lot about his ability as a HC that -even into his 4th year- he has not been able to change this scenario. And, finally, I think Capers has lost some respect because of his failure to accept his share of the teams failure--it's kinda tough to correct your mistakes when you don't think you are making any...

Keyser Soze
12-21-2005, 10:12 AM
Capers. Man. I'm actually feeling bad for the guy - to the point I wish he would just be demoted to defensive coordinator.

I can agree with that too.

The fans want blood, and after going 2-12, if they didn't get it, you'd see a lot of empty seats next year.

Kaiser Toro
12-21-2005, 10:25 AM
No matter what business you are in, results/growth/innovation are what keep your shareholders, customers and partners happy. Unfortunately for Capers we have a two sets of historicals that bear out a negative trend. He may be a great guy, he may be a defensive whiz, but the fact is is that it has not translated to wins and a better product. In the business world he would be better suited for a Director level position (DC) than a VP position (HC).

Corrosion
12-21-2005, 10:48 AM
I think Capers problems lie in two places ,


First is the personel department and Charlie Casserly . They have made some total BLUNDERS together . Im not sure how much of this can be placed on Capers himself ... If any . Or if the problem lies solely on the shoulders of Casserly .

Second is his offensive philosophy .... Run Run Run Punt . Hope your D makes a big play .... get a lead and sit on it . All too often they end up behind instead .
Of course we could blame the now fired Chris Palmer and the Interm O. Coordinator Pendry for the offense but this is Capers philosophy ... keep it close and have a chance to win in the late stages of the game .
I Agree wwith running the ball and controling the clock but there has to be the freedom for the offense to be explosive at the same time .... Opportunity to make a big play . This I think is Capers biggest downfall , he's just to plain conservative offensively .:twocents:

SESupergenius
12-21-2005, 11:56 AM
I liked Capers from the beginning so I guess I am stuck liking him now. I havn't particularly enjoyed the play calling the last few years but I'm sure about 85% of other teams feel the same way. Before I was a Texans fan I was a Steeler fan and they pretty much ran the ball behind the Bus (or whomever for the last 20 years) and are generally pretty conservative. I see the same thing with Capers. I didn't however see much agressiveness on the defensive side of the ball which perplexed me because Capers always had a very agressive defense through his days with the panthers. I think that is Fangio, but Capers did select him. I pretty much predicted our record every year and going into this season after all the offseason fiascos I predicted us to finished 5-11. Why? After we had improved every year as a club, last year we gave it all away. Now I am not particularly sure if Capers wanted all these moves and Casserly is just a "yes man", but I do know after all of that and before our season started we were not going to have a good year, all of this BEFORE Capers had even coached one down in 2005. I blame the GM for the talent, and trust me it isn't good. The GM is ultimately responsible for the talent on this team as the coach is ultimately responsible for the coaching on this team, but he doesn't have the talent then his coaching isn't as effective.
I'd actaully like to what Capers can do after 2-14 season. He had steady improvement up until this year, and in this year we botch the draft and free agency. We did not improve our players through the draft nor free agency AND we let go of good veterans. We regressed even before Capers had a chance to coach a single player in the offseason. I blame Casserly for this years debacle. I'd like to see what Capers can do next year with a good GM that has an eye for talent through every round of the draft. If Capers can't pull out 8 wins next year then see ya. I think one bad season because of an incompentant GM should cost him his job, especially after accomplishing steady increases in wins from day one. I may be wrong about Capers but I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

Keyser Soze
12-21-2005, 01:48 PM
I blame Casserly for this years debacle. I'd like to see what Capers can do next year with a good GM that has an eye for talent through every round of the draft.

If I had to keep one of the two, then I'd go this route. If Capers were to stay, he needs to make some changes on the coaching staff.

What's been a problem every year with this club - the O line. That's Casserly's job to get the talented guys we need, and he's failed. Capers has had to make do with guys he's been switching around trying to find a formula that works with the players he's got. The problem is, they're not good enough. Casserly's responsibility.

SESupergenius
12-21-2005, 06:00 PM
If I had to keep one of the two, then I'd go this route. If Capers were to stay, he needs to make some changes on the coaching staff.

What's been a problem every year with this club - the O line. That's Casserly's job to get the talented guys we need, and he's failed. Capers has had to make do with guys he's been switching around trying to find a formula that works with the players he's got. The problem is, they're not good enough. Casserly's responsibility.
You know what, I absolutely agree with that, Capers should fire some coaches and he actually did. He saw a problem with the offense and attempted to fix it, in fact I think he saw the problem last year and brought in Pendry as insurance in case things didn't go the way he planned. If he does the same with Fangio then I'd like for him to stay next year and bring in a decent defensive coordinator.

Kaiser Toro
12-21-2005, 06:07 PM
If I had to keep one of the two, then I'd go this route. If Capers were to stay, he needs to make some changes on the coaching staff.

What's been a problem every year with this club - the O line. That's Casserly's job to get the talented guys we need, and he's failed. Capers has had to make do with guys he's been switching around trying to find a formula that works with the players he's got. The problem is, they're not good enough. Casserly's responsibility.

I agree with this solution if it were year 2 or 3. But it took him 4 years to see that there was something wrong with this staff, specifically Fangio. This is a lack of execution on his part, whether he had the players or not.

Double Barrel
12-21-2005, 06:52 PM
Capers was the leader of the staff that picked these players. It's his job as much as Casserly's to evaluate talent and make decisions about who to go after.

That being said, I don't think our players are as bad as it seems. Bad coaching decisions and mediocre game plans can make any team look bad.

It's time to overhaul the team. 2-12 has revealed fundamental flaws in the leadership of this team. And that leadership starts with the Head Coach and GM.

tsip
12-21-2005, 06:58 PM
You know what, I absolutely agree with that, Capers should fire some coaches and he actually did. He saw a problem with the offense and attempted to fix it, in fact I think he saw the problem last year and brought in Pendry as insurance in case things didn't go the way he planned. If he does the same with Fangio then I'd like for him to stay next year and bring in a decent defensive coordinator.

The biggest problem with Capers is all the excuses that are made for his failure and once you start accepting excuses, it's a never-ending down hill spiral. What is going to change if we keep Capers and change assistants? Is he going to 'all of a sudden' let them coach? Is he going to know how to game plan? Will he devise schemes that give his players a chance for success? Will he stop sitting on leads? Will he stop waiting until the last drive of the game to try and win? Will he become creative? Will he realize there are 3 phases to every game? Will he admit he's wrong-learn from it, and try something different?....etc.,etc.

No, keeping Capers is not the answer. Do you really think the personnel problems are on Casserly?...not for a minute! Capers is a micro-manager and this team is a reflection of his ability to be a HC--- bring in new players and new coaches??? What is Capers going to do differently?

Texans Horror
12-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Even though this is purely a shoulda, coulda, woulda thought, I would wonder what it would have been like if he had won those four games that went down the wire (Jacksonville, St. Louis, Baltimore, and Tennessee). We would be sitting at 6-8 with an "easy" road game to end the season. Would we still be easily passing on Capers?

BTW - this is a purely speculative post. IMO, Capers has got to go, but Pendry should be out first.

HoustonFan
12-21-2005, 07:10 PM
Does anyone know if a HC has ever been demoted to an assistant or coordinator w/in in the NFL before?

Double Barrel
12-21-2005, 07:21 PM
Does anyone know if a HC has ever been demoted to anssistant or coordinator w/in in the NFL before?

Not sure...(good question, though), but I know Gunther Cunningham used to be the Chiefs head coach ('99-'00), but now he's their defensive coordinator under Dick Vermeil.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if a HC ever got demoted within the same team. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I don't recall anything in recent history.