PDA

View Full Version : Is it me?


texan279
12-19-2005, 12:00 PM
Or is the answer starting to become clear? There has been debate on the board whether our problem is the coaches or players. Well Carr gets to call plays the first half and the offense scores a franchise record 24 points in one quarter. Reeves comes in to evaluate talent which puts pressure on the players to perform and look at what we did yesterday. I am not saying Reeves fixes all of our problems, that our O line is fixed, or that we are now a playoff caliber team, but I think it is starting to show that our main problem is the coaches and their playcalling.

SESupergenius
12-19-2005, 12:25 PM
Well, keep it in perspective. We played the Cardinals, at home, with a 3rd string QB having the majority of snaps. Our defense is still just as bad as the offensive line, but they did help out the offense by creating turnovers. Capers says this often and most agree, if you win the turnover battle you're likely to win the game. The defense helps the offense and vice versa.

texan279
12-19-2005, 12:38 PM
Well, keep it in perspective. We played the Cardinals, at home, with a 3rd string QB having the majority of snaps. Our defense is still just as bad as the offensive line, but they did help out the offense by creating turnovers. Capers says this often and most agree, if you win the turnover battle you're likely to win the game. The defense helps the offense and vice versa.

I know it's just the Cards, but they did have/have the #1 pass offense in the league, and in the first series of the game we had 2 sacks on Warner, I can't remember, but wasn't it like game 3 or 4 when we got our first sack this season am I wrong?

Jack Bauer
12-19-2005, 12:41 PM
I can't remember, but wasn't it like game 3 or 4 when we got our first sack this season am I wrong?

We had a one sack in the Buffalo game and one in the Pittsburgh game, but we didn't start getting pressure on the QB until game 4, I think. I thought it was funny the announcers talking about how well we pressure the QB and I thought to myself, huh?

Wharton
12-19-2005, 01:04 PM
I don't see any answers here.

I do agree that bringing in the hatchet man (Reeves) has perked the players up a little bit.

Jack Bauer
12-19-2005, 01:16 PM
I don't see any answers here.

I do agree that bringing in the hatchet man (Reeves) has perked the players up a little bit.

The answer is that we scored 24 points in one quarter when someone else besides our current coaching staff called the offensive plays.

Sarg01
12-19-2005, 01:39 PM
It could be an anomaly, of course. However, given that we had a franchise-record offense for the one period of time someone else was handling the gameplan, it's an anomaly that bears further study.

Sure it was the Cards, but they rank middle of the pack (I think it was 16th and 18th when I looked it up before the game) in both rush and pass defense.

HJam72
12-19-2005, 01:46 PM
Palmer was a scape goat. Pendry's just a goat.

touttail
12-19-2005, 08:28 PM
Or is the answer starting to become clear? There has been debate on the board whether our problem is the coaches or players. Well Carr gets to call plays the first half and the offense scores a franchise record 24 points in one quarter. Reeves comes in to evaluate talent which puts pressure on the players to perform and look at what we did yesterday. I am not saying Reeves fixes all of our problems, that our O line is fixed, or that we are now a playoff caliber team, but I think it is starting to show that our main problem is the coaches and their playcalling.

I thought the same thing. Seems like the Texans had a little swagger now that Reeves is breathing down their backs. They seemed to play with more intensity! Even Babin came out of his shell & Faggins didn't get burned!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

real
12-19-2005, 08:31 PM
I dont think you can read too much from this game...other than a poor team beat another poor team... I did like the results of carr doing the play calling...he seemed to share the ball a lot better

texan279
12-19-2005, 08:33 PM
I dont think you can read too much from this game...other than a poor team beat another poor team... I did like the results of carr doing the play calling...he seemed to share the ball a lot better

The Cardinals may not be the best team in the NFL, but they did/do have the best passing offense in the NFL, and we got 2 sacks on Warner in their first drive.

El Tejano
12-20-2005, 10:02 AM
Is 30 points the highest we ever scored in a game?

Isn't it funny how ever since Reed got here, the coaching staff let Carr become more agressive and when they saw how good he was doing, they try to restrain him in the second half?

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 10:33 AM
Is 30 points the highest we ever scored in a game?

Isn't it funny how ever since Reed got here, the coaching staff let Carr become more agressive and when they saw how good he was doing, they try to restrain him in the second half?

We got 31 vs. the Raiders, I think, last year. We scored 30 and 31 points last year, within a couple weeks of each other, IIRC. It might have been 30 vs. the Raiders and 31 vs. someone else (the Titans?) .... I forget exactly, but I'm pretty sure 31 is the franchise high.

tulexan
12-20-2005, 10:53 AM
The Cardinals may not be the best team in the NFL, but they did/do have the best passing offense in the NFL, and we got 2 sacks on Warner in their first drive.


Yeah and Warner was 10/10 for 115 yards and a touchdown before he left in the first quarter. Navarre almost came back too. They were an extra point away from being down by only 7 and our offense couldn't move the ball. We got lucky with a ball that bounced off of a Cardinal and landed in one of our player's hands to basically seal the game with a field goal. But then after that they were moving the ball quite easily down the field before the time ran out.

Vinny
12-20-2005, 10:57 AM
We saw two bad teams on Sunday. One can't run the ball (Arizona) and one can't pass the ball (Texans). One dimensional offensive units do not do well in the NFL. Warner had 35 less yards on 23 less pass attempts than Carr, and Zona can't score in the red zone because they can't run. I'm not all that excited about beating one of the stinky teams of the NFL....but I'm glad we beat the perpetual chumps of the league...we weren’t doing that earlier.

Tulip
12-20-2005, 11:59 AM
Or is the answer starting to become clear? There has been debate on the board whether our problem is the coaches or players. Well Carr gets to call plays the first half and the offense scores a franchise record 24 points in one quarter. Reeves comes in to evaluate talent which puts pressure on the players to perform and look at what we did yesterday. I am not saying Reeves fixes all of our problems, that our O line is fixed, or that we are now a playoff caliber team, but I think it is starting to show that our main problem is the coaches and their playcalling.

I think it's pretty strong evidence. The Carr vs. Pendry halves of the Cardinals game at least re-opened the debate in our household.

Runner
12-20-2005, 12:08 PM
My caveat:

IMHO Pendry is the biggest problem on offense. I'm not defending him.

That being said, I think Carr did change the play at the line a few times in the second half. The Cardinals defense, who heard the same calls in the first half AND have the ability to learn, jumped on the new play and shifted to stop it. There was a time out burned immediately after a change of quarter or at the two minute warning or other clock stoppage (I don't remember exactly) because of that.

The next wrinkle we need to add to this burgeoning offense is the "ignore the audible" signal.

big homey
12-20-2005, 03:28 PM
Arizona's defense is 13th overall. Is it really that hard to give a little credit to our guys?

Carr ran the offense well. Sure he needs to show it longer than just a half of football, but do we really need to find every little knock against him?

Texan Asylum
12-20-2005, 03:37 PM
Carr called the game in the first half. Pendry called it in the second half. Let Carr call it all game against the Jags. That's my opinion.

Kaiser Toro
12-20-2005, 03:38 PM
Arizona's defense is 13th overall. Is it really that hard to give a little credit to our guys?

Carr ran the offense well. Sure he needs to show it longer than just a half of football, but do we really need to find every little knock against him?

I think we all would like to talk about Carr having 250 yards and 1-2 TD's every game, but they just do not happen that often. Unfortunatley there is not enough good out there to talk about unless you manufacture it.

I think we all have our fingers crossed that a new OC and HC will come in here and light that spark in our passing game.

Wharton
12-20-2005, 03:45 PM
The answer is that we scored 24 points in one quarter when someone else besides our current coaching staff called the offensive plays.

I'm sorry, but one half of play doesn't mean anything in the grand failure that is this season. Especially, when you consider the opponent (The Cardinals) and the incoming of the hatchet man (Dan Reeves) to motivate the players. I agree with a previous post that wanted Carr to call the plays against the Jags and San Fran.

texan279
12-20-2005, 04:13 PM
I'm sorry, but one half of play doesn't mean anything in the grand failure that is this season. Especially, when you consider the opponent (The Cardinals) and the incoming of the hatchet man (Dan Reeves) to motivate the players. I agree with a previous post that wanted Carr to call the plays against the Jags and San Fran.

It doesn't really matter how bad the Cards are, Carr called the plays the 1st half and ran 42 plays on 6 drives for a total of 204 yards 3 TD's and a field goal, Pendry calls the 2nd half 32 plays for a total of 54 yards and 2 field goals. If the Cards were really that bad, then Pendry must be the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL.

eriadoc
12-20-2005, 04:32 PM
It doesn't really matter how bad the Cards are, Carr called the plays the 1st half and ran 42 plays on 6 drives for a total of 204 yards 3 TD's and a field goal, Pendry calls the 2nd half 32 plays for a total of 54 yards and 2 field goals. If the Cards were really that bad, then Pendry must be the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL.

Another poster mentioned that the Cards were ranked 13th in defense going into that game. If that is true, then that answers the calls from a couple weeks ago when people were saying they wanted to see the offense put up 30 points on a defense better than the Rams.

Let's see, when Orton, Vick, Boller ... whoever ... lead their teams to victory, but fail to post impressive stats, it's written off as "They're a winner and W/L is all that matters". When Carr posts impressive stats and the defense gives up 30+ points, it's noted that Carr didn't do enough to help us win. When Carr takes over playcalling for the first half of his entire pro career and makes the necessary plays to put 24 points up and wins the game, the same standard is not applied. I don't know. I see a lot of hypocrisy from fans. The bottom line is, the QB on this team, whoever it might be, is not going to do well, for a variety of reasons. There's still not another QB that you could have put on this team from Opening Day Season One Snap One that would be any better than Carr right now. And I'm not saying Carr is great shakes - it's just an indictment of this team's management, personnel talent level, and coaching philosophy.

edo783
12-20-2005, 08:32 PM
Another poster mentioned that the Cards were ranked 13th in defense going into that game. If that is true, then that answers the calls from a couple weeks ago when people were saying they wanted to see the offense put up 30 points on a defense better than the Rams.

Let's see, when Orton, Vick, Boller ... whoever ... lead their teams to victory, but fail to post impressive stats, it's written off as "They're a winner and W/L is all that matters". When Carr posts impressive stats and the defense gives up 30+ points, it's noted that Carr didn't do enough to help us win. When Carr takes over playcalling for the first half of his entire pro career and makes the necessary plays to put 24 points up and wins the game, the same standard is not applied. I don't know. I see a lot of hypocrisy from fans. The bottom line is, the QB on this team, whoever it might be, is not going to do well, for a variety of reasons. There's still not another QB that you could have put on this team from Opening Day Season One Snap One that would be any better than Carr right now. And I'm not saying Carr is great shakes - it's just an indictment of this team's management, personnel talent level, and coaching philosophy.

Good post and on target.

Kaiser Toro
12-20-2005, 08:40 PM
Another poster mentioned that the Cards were ranked 13th in defense going into that game. If that is true, then that answers the calls from a couple weeks ago when people were saying they wanted to see the offense put up 30 points on a defense better than the Rams.

Let's see, when Orton, Vick, Boller ... whoever ... lead their teams to victory, but fail to post impressive stats, it's written off as "They're a winner and W/L is all that matters". When Carr posts impressive stats and the defense gives up 30+ points, it's noted that Carr didn't do enough to help us win. When Carr takes over playcalling for the first half of his entire pro career and makes the necessary plays to put 24 points up and wins the game, the same standard is not applied. I don't know. I see a lot of hypocrisy from fans. The bottom line is, the QB on this team, whoever it might be, is not going to do well, for a variety of reasons. There's still not another QB that you could have put on this team from Opening Day Season One Snap One that would be any better than Carr right now. And I'm not saying Carr is great shakes - it's just an indictment of this team's management, personnel talent level, and coaching philosophy.

I do agree with your assumptions, but Orton was a band aid and they replaced him a soon as Grossman was available. Although Vick may not put impressive numbers other teams must game plan against him. Boller is in the same boat as Carr in my opinion.

I have zero problem with your take and have been an advocate of a veteran QB who knows how to manage a game. I would be aboard on the Carr bandwagon if he had more wins on his resume, but it is not hypocrisy until the guy provides some tangible or residual value.

sprtsfanatic
12-20-2005, 08:43 PM
Good post and on target.

I'll second that motion...very educated and well articulated arguement.

DRAMA
12-20-2005, 11:49 PM
Good - GOSH!! I can certainly appreciate finding the silver lining but this is somewhat silly. Carr can NOT be evaluated under Capers/ Pendry. The whole 'Carr called the plays in the first half' is silly. He was allowed to audible to 'the other side' as Capers said and when he audibled to the pass, he threw a screen. Basically, the comp % is high, there is no read to be made, it the easiest throw in the book, and it runs clock - it is what it is - no skill/no chance/ no reward football.

An avg QB will yield around 9-10 yards per comp. For instance - 23-39 for 245 yards or so. Carr completes, lets say, 21-33 for 100 yards. We're all looking for that needle in the haystack, and Carr deserves a new OC and line, but right now - he is avg-to-below avg at the very best.

For now, Carr is a shell-shocked dump/hitch/screen QB - for now that's all he CAN do. He misses passes downfield by 10 yards or so...VERTICALLY! He's not ready, so for us to sit here and say, David's calling the plays - he's improving - lets be serious for one second.

Are we really sooooo bad, that we are willing to take Carr's game last week as acceptable? It was atrocious byt football standards but 'not too bad' by Texans standards. Obviously, we have finally gotten to that point where we blind ourselves by devotion instead of critiquing without passion or prejudice.

I guess Dom should stay too - he looked pretty good this week...and he is a good family guy....wait a sec...so is Charlie. Heck, let's let em all stay and give it another year. We can go draft a guard this year and we'll be ready...

For pete's sake...:brickwall

eriadoc
12-21-2005, 09:55 AM
Good - GOSH!! I can certainly appreciate finding the silver lining but this is somewhat silly. Carr can NOT be evaluated under Capers/ Pendry. The whole 'Carr called the plays in the first half' is silly. He was allowed to audible to 'the other side' as Capers said and when he audibled to the pass, he threw a screen. Basically, the comp % is high, there is no read to be made, it the easiest throw in the book, and it runs clock - it is what it is - no skill/no chance/ no reward football.

An avg QB will yield around 9-10 yards per comp. For instance - 23-39 for 245 yards or so. Carr completes, lets say, 21-33 for 100 yards. We're all looking for that needle in the haystack, and Carr deserves a new OC and line, but right now - he is avg-to-below avg at the very best.

For now, Carr is a shell-shocked dump/hitch/screen QB - for now that's all he CAN do. He misses passes downfield by 10 yards or so...VERTICALLY! He's not ready, so for us to sit here and say, David's calling the plays - he's improving - lets be serious for one second.

Are we really sooooo bad, that we are willing to take Carr's game last week as acceptable? It was atrocious byt football standards but 'not too bad' by Texans standards. Obviously, we have finally gotten to that point where we blind ourselves by devotion instead of critiquing without passion or prejudice.

I guess Dom should stay too - he looked pretty good this week...and he is a good family guy....wait a sec...so is Charlie. Heck, let's let em all stay and give it another year. We can go draft a guard this year and we'll be ready...

For pete's sake...:brickwall


Actually, go back and read the final sentence of my post. My stance is, and always has been, the Carr bashers are off target, with their arguments that he is definitely a bust. I am not willing to anoint Carr with any accolades just yet, but I do think he's earned the opportunity to get a fair evaluation after playing behind this crap-ss line for four years. That evaluation cannot happen as this team is currently built.

DRAMA
12-21-2005, 10:16 AM
Actually, go back and read the final sentence of my post. My stance is, and always has been, the Carr bashers are off target, with their arguments that he is definitely a bust. I am not willing to anoint Carr with any accolades just yet, but I do think he's earned the opportunity to get a fair evaluation after playing behind this crap-ss line for four years. That evaluation cannot happen as this team is currently built.

I completely agree with that. I just keep trying to remind myself of that first year or so when I thought that this kid may be able to win games by himself with that arm. Hopefully, this thing gets rectified in the offseason and Carr re-emerges..........................we so need a new offensive direction!

Bubbajwp
12-21-2005, 10:20 AM
IMO we have good talent on the offensive side of the ball. Except for oline
But our defense is lacking some talent mainly at LB and secondary.
Drob needs help bad.

I forgot to mention our coaches are terrible.

Marcus
12-21-2005, 11:34 AM
Oh really?

I would like to see . . just one time I would like to see . . Carr fake a handoff to the running back, drop back, plant his feet, survey the field, find the open receiver running over the middle about 20 yards downfield, and hit him at full stride so that receiver maybe gains some more yardage before being tackled. You know, like the pass that Rex Grossman threw to Mushin Muhammad on Sunday night?

Instead, I get nothing but dumpoff, hitch, dumpoff, hitch, dump off, hitch, dumpoff, hitch, hitch, hitch, dumpoff, hitch, dumpoff . . . :brickwall

Every once in a while, I'll see him drop back, and miraculously, the offensive linemen have the right protections, and DD miraculously picks up the blitz, and Carr looks, and looks, and looks, and looks, and looks, and then finally takes off running to the sidelines.

Either that kid that wears number 8 is dumber than a box of rocks, or all of the receivers SUCK! I'm wondering big-time about the former, and I'm starting to wonder about the latter. You hear that Andre Johnson? When was the last time you got open down the field, running over the middle, as a Pro Bowl wide receiver is supposed to do?

Coach C.
12-21-2005, 12:10 PM
the reason is Manning usually gets his full drop back and a second to read, whereas carr usually does not. You saw what happend to Manning when he did not his team loss and he did not look like the awesome QB that he is. Pressure can turn the best QBs into fodder.

stevo3883
12-21-2005, 01:44 PM
the reason is Manning usually gets his full drop back and a second to read, whereas carr usually does not. You saw what happend to Manning when he did not his team loss and he did not look like the awesome QB that he is. Pressure can turn the best QBs into fodder.


what? Manning had 330 yards against san diego.

that loss wasnt his fault, it goes on the defense

DRAMA
12-21-2005, 02:11 PM
Carr doesn't get sacked and pressured on every play. Yes, our O-Line sucks but they do NOT suck on every play.

So, at some point, Carr SHOULD be able to make a throw down field and have it land somewhere close the WR.

At some point, because we can run fairly well, a play action pass should be sold and the ball should go downfield.

At some point, ONE FREAKING WR, should run a crossing route further than 6 yards downfield.

At some point. David should just say screw it, I'll take the hit-I'm gonna get pounded-BUT I WILL throw this ball downfield CLOSE to my WR. (Screw it - I'll audible to the hitch!)

At some point, we MUST stop throwing hitches and quick screens.

At some point, we should run Shotgun, pump it and then throw it and then say "Screw it. I don't care who catches it!"

I really don't care who catches it. I just want to see Carr throw the ball somewhere other than 5 yards and backwards.

Marcus
12-21-2005, 03:34 PM
Carr doesn't get sacked and pressured on every play. Yes, our O-Line sucks but they do NOT suck on every play.

So, at some point, Carr SHOULD be able to make a throw down field and have it land somewhere close the WR.

At some point, because we can run fairly well, a play action pass should be sold and the ball should go downfield.

At some point, ONE FREAKING WR, should run a crossing route further than 6 yards downfield.

At some point. David should just say screw it, I'll take the hit-I'm gonna get pounded-BUT I WILL throw this ball downfield CLOSE to my WR. (Screw it - I'll audible to the hitch!)

At some point, we MUST stop throwing hitches and quick screens.

At some point, we should run Shotgun, pump it and then throw it and then say "Screw it. I don't care who catches it!"

I really don't care who catches it. I just want to see Carr throw the ball somewhere other than 5 yards and backwards.

:highfive: Give this man a ceegar!

touttail
12-22-2005, 06:42 AM
the reason is Manning usually gets his full drop back and a second to read, whereas carr usually does not. You saw what happend to Manning when he did not his team loss and he did not look like the awesome QB that he is. Pressure can turn the best QBs into fodder.

I agree, it also can run your running game. Look what happened to Barry Sanders the year Detriot dumped the OLine. He had a terrible year. When they shored up the OLine, his stats were back up where they always were. I had hime on my fantasy team and he scored 1 TD that year.

bobby 119C:brickwall