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the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 11:33 AM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 11:34 AM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.

Navarre stinks. Carr is just overpaid.

texan279
12-19-2005, 11:38 AM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.

Runs into sacks? Sure some of Carr's sacks are his fault when he runs out of bounds, never actually seen him run into a sack though. Locks onto 1 receiver? When has he had time to check more than one option? As far as throwing a ball for a WR to make a play, we really only have one playmaker at WR, AJ. Although I have seen AJ and Bradford drop balls this season that were in their hands.

SESupergenius
12-19-2005, 11:38 AM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.
Carr plays defense? That all sounds good for fantasy games and all, but Carr has the victory and the coaches took over the second half. Carr didn't really need to throw the ball the 2nd half, NAvarre did.

Jack Bauer
12-19-2005, 11:41 AM
When has he had time to check more than one option?

This is my point to the criticism that he "locks" into one receiver. He barely has time to look at option number one before the pressure comes.

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 11:56 AM
Keep'em coming. I know there are a lot more Carr apologists out there!

texan279
12-19-2005, 11:59 AM
Keep'em coming. I know there are a lot more Carr apologists out there!

If you read some of my posts from preseason and much earlier in the year, I was not the biggest supporter of Carr. I have come to realize though, he is doing what he can with what he has around him. He has one playmaker at WR, a solid RB, and a horrible pass blocking offensive line. I am not going to give up on Carr and I don't think the front office is either. Sure he makes mistakes, but until I see Carr behind at least a decent offensive line, I am not sold on him being a horrible QB.

Texan Asylum
12-19-2005, 12:10 PM
Carr has been groomed for these butt whippings for years now. The failure to address the OL problem has resulted in what comes to him naturally. The fact that he can still go out and perform is a testament to his toughness and character. Not bad traits to build a franchise QB around.

SESupergenius
12-19-2005, 12:20 PM
We've seen what this offensive can do when we don't go to the quick hitches or 2 second drops. They fail time and time again. Carr has his good and his bad, just like every QB does, but until I see this oline upgraded then I see no reason to put it all on him.

I did see Carr take a shot yesterday in the chest and get right back up. He's a tough QB, a pretty boy, but still can take a shot.

ThaShark316
12-19-2005, 12:28 PM
Breaking news: Wonger hates David Carr.

In other news: Water is wet,grass is green and the Steelers wear Black and Gold.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 12:29 PM
Breaking news: Wonger hates David Carr.

In other news: Water is wet,grass is green and the Steelers wear Black and Gold.

You forgot that the Reliant Stadium roof is closed.

z0rpAn
12-19-2005, 12:34 PM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.

Carr 66% completions
Navarre 58% completions

Different teams have different systems. With 3 step drops you don't get great yardage and we aren't a team that constantly throws 10 yards down the field.

Carr played a better secondary, where Navarre played ours...

People continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.
Maybe because you keep TRYING to bash him. Yardage statistics aren't everything. TDs-INTs for Carr don't mean much looking at our offense, yes he threw an INT, but who doesn't? Our offense is a rushing offense, thus unless the rush fails in the redzone, Carr wont get the opportunity to make a touchdown TD.

And as far as Carr running into sacks. The only way I can understand that is he is avoiding other pass rushers and making sure his own guys don't knock him down by being forced into him.

It would be nice if you actually knew how this team works before you go bashing individuals.

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 12:37 PM
Breaking news: Wonger hates David Carr.

Not true, I like David Carr and want him to succeed. I've watched every snap of his pro career and think he is one tough SOB and has a ton of heart. But he is just not an NFL quarterback. He has the tools but is severely lacking when it comes to the mental aspects of the game. The guy is in his 4th season and still plays like a rookie or worse at times.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 12:40 PM
Hey, I am curious, what does your name mean any way?

I would suspect it is a line from the Breakfast Club.

Frills
12-19-2005, 12:41 PM
I guess him calling the plays and having the team score the most points in a quarter are a tribute to his lacking mental compentancy at the position.

Just wondering who would you consider good NFL QB's at this point of the season?

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 12:43 PM
Carr 66% completions
Navarre 58% completions

Different teams have different systems. With 3 step drops you don't get great yardage and we aren't a team that constantly throws 10 yards down the field.

Carr played a better secondary, where Navarre played ours...


Maybe because you keep TRYING to bash him. Yardage statistics aren't everything. TDs-INTs for Carr don't mean much looking at our offense, yes he threw an INT, but who doesn't? Our offense is a rushing offense, thus unless the rush fails in the redzone, Carr wont get the opportunity to make a touchdown TD.

And as far as Carr running into sacks. The only way I can understand that is he is avoiding other pass rushers and making sure his own guys don't knock him down by being forced into him.

It would be nice if you actually knew how this team works before you go bashing individuals.

I know exactly how this team works. I (as most everyone on this board is capable of) can predict 90% of their play calls at the line of scrimmage. What does that have to anything? When he is actually put in position to make a play he throws the ball out of bounds instead of giving his receiver a chance to make a play, or he dumps the ball off, or he runs himself into a sack. I sat in the end zone yesterday and saw receivers open toward the middle of the field on several occassions, but he will not take his eyes off of his primary target and find the secondary guys.

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 12:50 PM
I guess him calling the plays and having the team score the most points in a quarter are a tribute to his lacking mental compentancy at the position.

Just wondering who would you consider good NFL QB's at this point of the season?

Yes, he did check off to the off tackle left running play with great success yesterday. And his hitch passes were on the money.

Who would I consider a good NFL QB... Anyone that can throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. Or in the middle of the field. It took the guy 3 games into his 4th season to figure out throwing the ball away is better than running out of bounds for minus yards.

Texan Asylum
12-19-2005, 12:51 PM
Very observant on our parts to find the open receiver during a game BUT we're not members of the "Sack of the Week" club like our good friend DC is. If we are to condemn him for what he has had to work with as far as a line goes then perhaps a little time with an improved line is warranted before we judge him on his capibilities.

Frills
12-19-2005, 12:55 PM
Yes, he did check off to the off tackle left running play with great success yesterday. And his hitch passes were on the money.

Who would I consider a good NFL QB... Anyone that can throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. Or in the middle of the field. It took the guy 3 games into his 4th season to figure out throwing the ball away is better than running out of bounds for minus yards.


Name a few QB's you think are good. I'll help ya out, Brady, P. Manning, Big Ben...Those are the obivous ones...think a few mins, and come up with some others, surely there aren't only 3.

Double Barrel
12-19-2005, 12:58 PM
the Steelers wear Black and Gold.

I think it's black and yellow, regardless of what those Steeler knuckleheads want to believe.

Gold is the color of the 49ers or Saints helmets. ;)

With regards to Carr, I think there are still some troubling tendencies that he's carried from college. Unfortunately, he did not have the luxury of getting drafted by an existing team that could develop his strengths while negating his weaknesses. Instead of sitting out a year (or more) to learn the NFL, he was thrown to the wolves behind an untested o-line.

His constant run-for-the-hills of his first four seasons has done nothing but distract him from becoming a better QB. He could be a broken player right now, because there were some instances yesterday that just screamed "bad decision".

Texan Asylum
12-19-2005, 01:01 PM
I think it's black and yellow, regardless of what those Steeler knuckleheads want to believe.

Gold is the color of the 49ers or Saints helmets. ;)

With regards to Carr, I think there are still some troubling tendencies that he's carried from college. Unfortunately, he did not have the luxury of getting drafted by an existing team that could develop his strengths while negating his weaknesses. Instead of sitting out a year (or more) to learn the NFL, he was thrown to the wolves behind an untested o-line.

His constant run-for-the-hills of his first four seasons has done nothing but distract him from becoming a better QB. He could be a broken player right now, because there were some instances yesterday that just screamed "bad decision".
Respectfully, what are you suggesting then.

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 01:03 PM
Name a few QB's you think are good. I'll help ya out, Brady, P. Manning, Big Ben...Those are the obivous ones...think a few mins, and come up with some others, surely there aren't only 3.

Carson Palmer, Trent Green, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Jake Plummer, Jake Del Homme, Mark Brunnell, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, Kerry Collins, Donovan McNabb, Marc Bulger, Brad Johnson, Byron Leftwich, Drew Bledsoe.... pretty much every QB in the league other than Dilfer, Brooks and whoever SF, Detroit, Tampa or Miami is running out on the field.

Wait, let me guess... all of those guys have an offensive line?

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 01:37 PM
This argument reaks of hypocrisy. How many of these guys play on craptastic teams right now, or have had, in their past, the kind of seasons or multiple-season-stretch that you are condeming Carr as a lost cause for right now? For the sake of my time, I am not going to go into it, but Wonger you are digging yourself a hole here and I don't think you are going to make it out of this one.

Come on man, you can do better than that. Go back to the tried-and-true elements of your plan, like statistics, which would absolutely flop with this list. Don't bring out a laundry list of also-rans who have put up two or three good seasons to six or seven bad, put up very similar numbers throughout significant stretches of their career, when their successes have come during their tenures with balanced, well-coached teams.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the Ravens, is he good? Or is there more to winning football games than you are even close to realizing?

You asked who I would consider a good NFL QB at this point of the season, right? Most of those guys are leading their teams to winning seasons and/or have better statistics than Carr even though they are on craptastic teams (i.e. Favre, Collins, McNair). Believe me, I hope the guy can turn it around with a decent offensive line. I just don't believe that he will ever be a good QB. If he can get into a system like Baltimore or Tampa had during their Super Bowl runs he could be good enough not to lose games, but he will never be a Manning (either one), Palmer, Brady or even a Hasselbeck, Brees or Green.

the wonger need food
12-19-2005, 01:41 PM
Wonger:

You are clueless. I have followed David career for the past six years. Put any of the above quarterbacks in his situation and have them endure the amount of punishment David has taken, I suggest 90% of them would be injured and/or 90% would have performed at least as poorly.

Given a decent offensive line and a stable or receivers who can catch most of the ball thrown to them, you would singing a different tune.

Are you sure you went to Duke? Were you an Art major? I think you went to NC State.

All you have is shallow excuses and I am clueless? QB's in the NFL are measured in wins and statistics. Carr has been a failure in both categories.

zeplin
12-19-2005, 01:43 PM
This argument reaks of hypocrisy. How many of these guys play on craptastic teams right now, or have had, in their past, the kind of seasons or multiple-season-stretch that you are condeming Carr as a lost cause for right now? For the sake of my time, I am not going to go into it, but Wonger you are digging yourself a hole here and I don't think you are going to make it out of this one.

Come on man, you can do better than that. Go back to the tried-and-true elements of your plan, like statistics, which would absolutely flop with this list. Don't bring out a laundry list of also-rans who have put up two or three good seasons to six or seven bad, put up very similar numbers throughout significant stretches of their career, when their successes have come during their tenures with balanced, well-coached teams.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl with the Ravens, is he good? Or is there more to winning football games than you are even close to realizing?


Can I get a Amen!!!
One more note I could swear I saw Carr throw one up for AJ on the sidelines yesterday, probably a TD if he caught the ball. My point is there are 11 guys out there on the field and if 6 or 7 of them are sub par then it really won't matter who your QB is at that point. Joe Montana would fail on this team.
I am so tired of hearing people blame David Carr for all our trouble. After 4 years of abuse by opposing defenses we still do not know what kind of QB he could be. I just hope by the time we ge the OL figuired out he is still healthy enough to play.
One thing I think we should do is let him find out what his value is on the open market this next off season. We will probably save some money on his contract. We would be paying fair market value.

cuppacoffee
12-19-2005, 01:50 PM
Carson Palmer, Trent Green, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Jake Plummer, Jake Del Homme, Mark Brunnell, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, Kerry Collins, Donovan McNabb, Marc Bulger, Brad Johnson, Byron Leftwich, Drew Bledsoe.... pretty much every QB in the league other than Dilfer, Brooks and whoever SF, Detroit, Tampa or Miami is running out on the field.

Wait, let me guess... all of those guys have an offensive line?

Brees........almost run out of SD
Vick..........extremely overrated, a good running back / less than average passing skills.
Eli............lets wait before we annoint him.
Brunell......wasn't he run out of JVille in favor of Sandwich
Collins......didn't he lose his starting job to Tuissoppio or whatever his name is.
Johnson...been a great QB at all of his stops hasn't he?
Drew (swivel hips) Bledsoe.....A real reach on your part.

Wait, let me guess.....You don't like Carr.

Hottoddie
12-19-2005, 02:15 PM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.


And who won that game? Oh yeah, it was the Texans (30-19). Now, shut up & sit down in the back of the bus.:rolleyes:

Frills
12-19-2005, 02:29 PM
Carson Palmer, Trent Green, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Jake Plummer, Jake Del Homme, Mark Brunnell, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, Kerry Collins, Donovan McNabb, Marc Bulger, Brad Johnson, Byron Leftwich, Drew Bledsoe.... pretty much every QB in the league other than Dilfer, Brooks and whoever SF, Detroit, Tampa or Miami is running out on the field.

Wait, let me guess... all of those guys have an offensive line?


Green---Roaf was out the first 4 weeks, in which he went 77/128 879 yds 3/3 the team went 2-2 and they had Priest Holmes and LJ running the ball.

Brees---Not hard to be a good QB when you have LT and Gates on your side.

Vick---Has shown all he needs to show Sun night, the mere fact you listed him as a good QB shows quite enough.

Eli---ummm, There's a reason Tiki is one of the best RB's in the NFL, and its not due to to Eli's 75.2 rating. A 22/16 ratio when you have Buress, Toomer and Shockey is very mediocre.

Hasslebeck---Alexander leading the league in TD's has a ton to do with his numbers, when they stack 8 in the box its hard for Hass to fail given Engram, Jurivicous.

Plummer---Denver throws the ball? Guess when they do, Smith and Lelie are decent targets, and the run game is very very good.

Delhomme---throws to one of the best WR's in the league this year, but still has managed an 86.5 rating throwing 20td's to 15 ints.

Brunell---Portis, Cooley and Moss are good players to have around you.

Farve---19/22 ratio, has led team to a 3-10 record, would be benched for Rogers, but is an icon...

Collins---benched for tuisopo but got job back cause he was horrible as well. Team is 4-10 and has recievers Moss, Porter and a damn good RB in Jordan. Great leader at the position, least he hasn't quit yet.

McNabb---2 WR thrown him under the bus, led team to a whopping 4-5 record before bbshutting it down. Great durability.

Bulger---great duribility as well

Johnson---16 years in the league, and auqiring a team in shambles that took a love boat to bring togather.

Lefty---durability, he could handle about 1/3 of what DC has endured before shutting down.

Bledsoe---Good O-line, throwing to Johnson, Whitten, and Glenn is a ton better than AJ, Gaffney.......

I can pick apart every QB in the league just as you can Carr. You don't know what kind of QB ya have until you give him the chance to succeed. DC hasn't been given a chance.

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 02:33 PM
And who won that game? Oh yeah, it was the Texans (30-19). Now, shut up & sit down in the back of the bus.:rolleyes: We won cause Babin took out Warner. Warner had 35 less passing yards than Carr on 23 less attempts. And Warner had one more TD.

We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and 3.7 yards per pass. Our passing game out gained our running game by .3 yards each play. I honestly dont think that is normal. Now get out a 12 inch ruler, hold it up: That's how much more a pass play got than a run play.

Frills
12-19-2005, 02:37 PM
When you have a short passing gameplan thats what happens when you have recievers that get tackled for a loss or drop the occasional deep pass...both happened on Sunday...its not the QB's fault for playing by the gameplan.

The short passing game is the coaches plan...not Carr's

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 02:39 PM
Touche.

Brett Favre has been more or less dismal this season on a dismal team; more yards but worse TD/INT ratio and rated a point or two less than Carr as of today (among other forgettable years). I suppose he sucks too? Or is he a future HOFer, a good QB who was really allowed to shine because he had a real system and team around him?

Carr has had neither in his four years. Obviously until Carr is given above features we will never know, but give the man some time.

How much more time is palatable for you? Once again, I am not fishing, just trying to get a pulse.

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 02:49 PM
When you have a short passing gameplan thats what happens when you have recievers that get tackled for a loss or drop the occasional deep pass...both happened on Sunday...its not the QB's fault for playing by the gameplan.

The short passing game is the coaches plan...not Carr's Carr called the plays in the first half, remember??? He called those short hitches in the first half, not Pendry or Capers. And in the first half the passing game got an unbelievable 4.65 yards a play while the running game got 4.75 a play. That cant be normal.

Frills
12-19-2005, 02:53 PM
I'd assume 2 seasons in a row when you don't cut a starting O-line player or a TE because they had no business in the NFL...and shouldn't be starting unless your 3rd string player gets injured.

Most teams have some depth at O-line gained through drafts/FA, our GM decided to trade that depth for Babin, Buchanan. Until he has some stability surrounding him, we'll never know.

cuppacoffee
12-19-2005, 02:54 PM
We won cause Babin took out Warner. Warner had 35 less passing yards than Carr on 23 less attempts. And Warner had one more TD.

We averaged 3.4 yards per rush and 3.7 yards per pass. Our passing game out gained our running game by .3 yards each play. I honestly dont think that is normal. Now get out a 12 inch ruler, hold it up: That's how much more a pass play got than a run play.


Yeah..but if Warner had stayed in our D would have intercepted 10 of those extra 23 passes. We can all speculate and use revisionist history.

Coulda, woulda, shouda. :yap

Its getting harder and harder to take you serious. :brickwall

:coffee:

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 02:55 PM
Vick---Has shown all he needs to show Sun night, the mere fact you listed him as a good QB shows quite enough. Without Vick, the Falcons are 3-11, with Vick, they are 31-18-1. Good QBs win and that is what he does.

Frills
12-19-2005, 02:58 PM
Without Vick, the Falcons are 3-11, with Vick, they are 31-18-1. Good QBs win and that is what he does.

Or their backup blows

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 02:58 PM
Yeah..but if Warner had stayed in our D would have intercepted 10 of those extra 23 passes. We can all speculate and use revisionist history.

Coulda, woulda, shouda. :yap

Its getting harder and harder to take you serious. :brickwall

:coffee: Our CBs werent even close to touching one of Warner's passes. He was carving us up until Babin took us out. Do you really think that Warner would have squandered those opportunities where the Cards started their drive from around the 50 yard line???

And mine is reasonable speculation to say that Warner would have continued finding open WRs because our secondary has been horrible the whole season. A 10 interception game has never happened.

Frills
12-19-2005, 02:59 PM
Since when has Warner been non-injury prone?

Makes DC's durability even more of an asset

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Or their backup blows No, that's the Vick-effect. He makes the whole team better because he changes field position, makes the defense do stuff they don't want to, etc.

Frills
12-19-2005, 03:11 PM
No, that's the Vick-effect. He makes the whole team better because he changes field position, makes the defense do stuff they don't want to, etc.


If you want to be taken seriously change your avatar.

Most NFL teams struggle with the back-up QB, there is no Vick effect, other than ATL misses the playoffs, or get ko'ed early

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 03:14 PM
The problem with my answer is that I will essentially evade your question, and say, I don't know.

Or, I will answer it with another. Can anyone on this board really say that our coaching staff and systems are good? If the answer is no, then why should we expect our players to perform well under/for them?

The bottom line is that I do not feel our coaches are doing the job right now. They do not utilize their talent, they do not run effective plays, they are extremely predictable in their playcalling and formations, and worst of all, they seem slow to recognize or admit to their mistakes. How many weeks did overweight, slow-footed Victor Riley start at tackle - a position he hasn't played successfully since college - before we finally pulled the plug on that component of the sack fiasco? How many times will we run some eight-man zone against Peyton Manning before we watch and learn from the successful defensive schemes utilized against him for the past four years?

The "Carr-haters" are right about one thing: any chump can throw five yard nickel and dimers all the way down the field. We drafted Carr because of his speed and his arm, and he isn't allowed to use either under the current scheme, because our O-line is either too badly-coached or too inept to give him the space to throw a deep ball.

Until we see new coaches and a GM, I guess I don't see why we should get rid of a guy like Carr who is simply the best he can be in a bad situation.

I have always felt the answer lies in the middle somewhere. The staff needs to go. What I cannot fathom, as a former collegiate player, is why does the #1 pick not have the cajones to come out and say give me the damn ball or give me the signal calling. This on top of his contract is why I have demonstrably down on DC. It comes to a point where the competitor in someone has got to come out.

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 03:17 PM
If you want to be taken seriously change your avatar.

Most NFL teams struggle with the back-up QB, there is no Vick effect, other than ATL misses the playoffs, or get ko'ed early
Hold up...what was the NFC Championship game last year?? Oh yeah, Atlanta vs. Philly. Vick has gone as far as Manning in the playoffs.

If you wanna be taken seriously, please...type something that makes sense because the "ATL misses the playoffs, or get ko'ed early" really doesnt hold up when they were one game from the Super Bowl last year.

Frills
12-19-2005, 03:22 PM
The NFC has been the AFC's (female dog) for how long now?

The NFC is the JV of the NFL

Last 8 seasons the AFC is 6-2 in the Superbowl.

Fiddy
12-19-2005, 03:23 PM
The NFC has been the AFC's (female dog) for how long now?

The NFC is the JV of the NFL

Last 8 seasons the AFC is 6-2 in the Superbowl. lol, you've just discredited how much it takes to get to the Superbowl...that's funny.

And you do know that the Patriots, responsible for 3 of those, won each superbowl by 3 points?? Complete dominance over the NFC, just unbelievable dominance. 3 whole points each game for a total of 9. Woah..I wonder why the NFC just doesnt forfeit. They have no chance when the other teams lose by 3. :dontknowa

Ibar_Harry
12-19-2005, 03:39 PM
I have always felt the answer lies in the middle somewhere. The staff needs to go. What I cannot fathom, as a former collegiate player, is why does the #1 pick not have the cajones to come out and say give me the damn ball or give me the signal calling. This on top of his contract is why I have demonstrably down on DC. It comes to a point where the competitor in someone has got to come out.

Carr has always believed in his coaches and was taught that way from the get go. He is a yes sir type of person out of respect to his elders. It can be a fault. He may well have said a whole lot, but it was not made public. You will always hear him say Mr. McNair. He's not a make waves type of guy.

Frills
12-19-2005, 03:56 PM
Carr has always believed in his coaches and was taught that way from the get go. He is a yes sir type of person out of respect to his elders. It can be a fault. He may well have said a whole lot, but it was not made public. You will always hear him say Mr. McNair. He's not a make waves type of guy.

Exactly.

He's a class act, you won't see him on a boat, in an armed robbery investigation, throwing his coaches/teammates under the bus.

He's a class act which infuriates some.

zeplin
12-19-2005, 04:00 PM
Carr has always believed in his coaches and was taught that way from the get go. He is a yes sir type of person out of respect to his elders. It can be a fault. He may well have said a whole lot, but it was not made public. You will always hear him say Mr. McNair. He's not a make waves type of guy.

I concur. He is a class act. His parents raised him right. Can you imagine the problems it would have created if he had chosen to go with the Terrel Owens method.

Frills
12-19-2005, 04:18 PM
I concur. He is a class act. His parents raised him right. Can you imagine the problems it would have created if he had chosen to go with the Terrel Owens method.

TO's issue is some coach making him a reciever back when he was young. All the anger he has toward his coaches, QB's and contracts stem from that. He always wanted to be the man, and he can't from the WR position.

utahmark
12-19-2005, 06:21 PM
I have always felt the answer lies in the middle somewhere. The staff needs to go. What I cannot fathom, as a former collegiate player, is why does the #1 pick not have the cajones to come out and say give me the damn ball or give me the signal calling. This on top of his contract is why I have demonstrably down on DC. It comes to a point where the competitor in someone has got to come out.

who is to say he hasnt said any of that stuff. carr is not moss or k. johnson he would'nt say that kind of thing to the press.

also i havent heard any of those statements from aj. do you want him gone to?

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 06:36 PM
who is to say he hasnt said any of that stuff. carr is not moss or k. johnson he would'nt say that kind of thing to the press.

also i havent heard any of those statements from aj. do you want him gone to?

It may be my lack of football knowledge, but the leader on the offensive side of football has usually been the QB. Moreover, this is the first expansion team I have ever been a fan of, but Carr was the first pick of the team and his face is plastered all over the marketing materials. I would assume that he was the annointed leader of this team. AJ has said something and it only took him a couple if years, but we knew wen we picked him we were getting a silent type.

chuckm
12-19-2005, 06:46 PM
man I'm tempted to take wonger off ignore just to read his current "Carr Sucks" vitrol .... nah

edo783
12-19-2005, 07:34 PM
man I'm tempted to take wonger off ignore just to read his current "Carr Sucks" vitrol .... nah

Not me. He is there to stay.

Hervoyel
12-19-2005, 08:15 PM
Carr has always believed in his coaches and was taught that way from the get go. He is a yes sir type of person out of respect to his elders. It can be a fault. He may well have said a whole lot, but it was not made public. You will always hear him say Mr. McNair. He's not a make waves type of guy.


I can fix that before they even get to mini-camp!

Now where did I put "Snake's" phone number? Carr needs to spend a week or two taking a vacation in Alabama drinking beer, fishing, and raising hell with Kenny Stabler. Hit a few topless bars, spend a weekend in Key West and drink his weight in Margaritas.

Get some ink done. Nothing modern or fancy. A "nekkkid" woman who does the hula when he flexes his bicep will do just fine.

That would knock that "fault" out of him right quick.

I bet he'd come back with an earful for Joe Pendry. That is of course IF Joe was coming back in 2006 (and he ain't).

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 08:49 PM
Not true, I like David Carr and want him to succeed. I've watched every snap of his pro career and think he is one tough SOB and has a ton of heart. But he is just not an NFL quarterback. He has the tools but is severely lacking when it comes to the mental aspects of the game. The guy is in his 4th season and still plays like a rookie or worse at times.
He lead his team to 24 points in the 2nd quarter by calling the plays himself in a no huddle offense (Manning style). He led his team downfield to 3 TD's. Two of those were from within 10 yards. Just because he dosnt get the Td dosnt mean he was not effective.

real
12-19-2005, 08:56 PM
D.Carr Still hasn't proven himself...I'm not ready to call him a complete bust, because I think he has earned enough experience to be a very, very, very, good..almost excellent.... back-up for years...

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 08:59 PM
Carr called the plays in the first half, remember??? He called those short hitches in the first half, not Pendry or Capers. And in the first half the passing game got an unbelievable 4.65 yards a play while the running game got 4.75 a play. That cant be normal.
That's an extreamly good point, now let me point out that by doing this we scored 24 points and didn't punt once in the half. (Only time we didn't score we turned it onver on downs.) We also had way more plays and TOP during that half. Whatever works...

norcaltex
12-19-2005, 09:01 PM
Point taken but I think with the right coach he will be a better sarting QB. Who do you want in the draft?

Coach C.
12-19-2005, 09:03 PM
Carr is a good quarterback, with great measurables. I am a believer in the guy eventhough admittedly I did not agree with the pick at first. He has shown alot of heart, and someone with his heart in a good system and his talent could take our franchise a long way. Plus Cass already said Carr is coming back on Cold Pizza today.

real
12-19-2005, 09:03 PM
guys, guys, guys....D.C would have to do this on a consistent basis for that to mean anything...He did it once...kudos....Do it again, and again...Then he will get the props he deserves..But to have one... o.k performance...not gonna cut it...He still gets no love from me

real
12-19-2005, 09:05 PM
C Plus Cass already said Carr is coming back on Cold Pizza today.


Cass doesn't know if he himself will be back...

CajunTexan
12-19-2005, 11:23 PM
I can fix that before they even get to mini-camp!

Now where did I put "Snake's" phone number? Carr needs to spend a week or two taking a vacation in Alabama drinking beer, fishing, and raising hell with Kenny Stabler. Hit a few topless bars, spend a weekend in Key West and drink his weight in Margaritas.

Get some ink done. Nothing modern or fancy. A "nekkkid" woman who does the hula when he flexes his bicep will do just fine.

That would knock that "fault" out of him right quick.

I bet he'd come back with an earful for Joe Pendry. That is of course IF Joe was coming back in 2006 (and he ain't).

Herv...this take (whether tonque in check or not) posted about a class act like Carr, under that avatar, brings you to new heights of respect on the board I am sure!

CajunTexan
12-19-2005, 11:25 PM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.

Geez...now, how does that ignore thing work again?

Hervoyel
12-19-2005, 11:34 PM
Herv...this take (whether tonque in check or not) posted about a class act like Carr, under that avatar, brings you to new heights of respect on the board I am sure!


Well, it was meant in jest. You know I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately and I find that the longer I'm here the less I care about what other posters think. I'm starting to feel like I might be on the short timers list around here. I don't enjoy it anymore. Everyone takes everything too seriously.

I'm sure that "a class act" like David Carr can take a little joke about some of Kenny Stablers personality rubbing off on him and if his image can't survive it then Kenny probably wouldn't want to spend the time with him anyway. He might show him his Super Bowl ring if Carr is lucky because it just might be the closest he ever gets to one.

Lately (meaning the past year or so) I've been spending more time on football and the board and enjoying it less. I think I need a vacation or something.

CajunTexan
12-19-2005, 11:42 PM
Well, it was meant in jest. You know I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately and I find that the longer I'm here the less I care about what other posters think. I'm starting to feel like I might be on the short timers list around here. I don't enjoy it anymore. Everyone takes everything too seriously.

I'm sure that "a class act" like David Carr can take a little joke about some of Kenny Stablers personality rubbing off on him and if his image can't survive it then Kenny probably wouldn't want to spend the time with him anyway. He might show him his Super Bowl ring if Carr is lucky because it just might be the closest he ever gets to one.

Lately (meaning the past year or so) I've been spending more time on football and the board and enjoying it less. I think I need a vacation or something.

I hear what you are saying. I came to this board this year and thought it would be great fun, and it was in the beginning. Now, most are so negative it really isn't as much fun.

I find my self reading the threads, getting very bored, then making a post on a comment like yours. (I knew you meant no harm) You are usually good for a reaction though.

Jack Bauer
12-20-2005, 12:11 AM
lol, you've just discredited how much it takes to get to the Superbowl...that's funny.

And you do know that the Patriots, responsible for 3 of those, won each superbowl by 3 points?? Complete dominance over the NFC, just unbelievable dominance. 3 whole points each game for a total of 9. Woah..I wonder why the NFC just doesnt forfeit. They have no chance when the other teams lose by 3. :dontknowa

To borrow a line from Rome, whom I dislike, but: SCOREBOARD.

It doesn't matter what the scores have been. The AFC is 6-2 in the last 8 Super Bowls. The 6-2 record is a dominating record. There's that dominant word again. :redtowel:

Also, there is a certain QB who plays in Atlanta who is overrated. He changes his name all the time, so I don't recall his real name.

gg no re
12-20-2005, 12:25 AM
Peyton Manning's son for Texans QB in 2030.

Double Barrel
12-20-2005, 12:27 AM
I hear what you are saying. I came to this board this year and thought it would be great fun, and it was in the beginning. Now, most are so negative it really isn't as much fun.

I find my self reading the threads, getting very bored, then making a post on a comment like yours. (I knew you meant no harm) You are usually good for a reaction though.

You and Herv don't quit the board just yet, PLEASE! :howdy: Quality posters are in demand. The mood and nature of the board right now just reflects the sorry state of affairs that a 2-12 brings with them. Make that a 12-2 team, and I bet this is a fun place to be.

We gotta' have faith, men...and lots of patience. It'll work out, I promise.* :ok:


*no time limit specified

Nighthawk
12-20-2005, 01:06 AM
It's clear now that a good percentage of users here will defend Carr no matter what, but I'm curious as to the reason why. How do people get so attached to a guy who has done basically nothing for them for 4 years? If he was Favre, or somebody that had a great year where you really saw the potential developed, or even a handful of truly brilliant performances over the 4 years, but we've got NOTHING like that and nothing to suggest Carr will EVER be a 1st class NFL QB. I repeat, NOTHING. N*O*T*H*I*N*G. ZERO. Sure, he sometimes looks OK, and sure, he has a strong arm (so does my plumber), but for all the football skills that you want in a QB, well, Carr just hasn't shown us a thing. Can't read the defenses, doesn't read down his receivers (doesn't have time? has plenty of time, he's just slow), locks onto his receiver (duh!), doesn't have much pocket sense (often runs into sacks when trying to avoid sacks), makes a lot of bonehead throws to where no receiver is, runs out of bounds when unnecessary, can't seem to hit a moving target with any regularity, makes bad decisions time after time . . . the list just goes on.

So what is it about him that makes fans on this board devoted to him, ready to make excuses for him all the time? What's the investment? He's a kid that had a good year in college against sub-par competition and has not gotten any better with four years in the bigs.

We cannot POSSIBLY pay him 8 million dollars, or anything like it.

Maybe we should start again next year with a solid, workmanlike, veteran QB who knows how to run a team, knows the field and the pocket, is a solid passer, and has three or four years of good solid play left in him. Trade Carr if we can for a draft pick--I'm thinking we might get a 2nd round or a high 3rd round for him now--or for a good lineman.

That would be better for us and probably better for DC, too.

Napa Auto Parts
12-20-2005, 01:32 AM
I know... there will be 1,000 excuses for the guy in this thread, but the fact remains that another 3rd string QB outperformed the Texans' "franchise quarterback".

Carr 22/33 for 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
Navarre 14/24 for 174 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Carr makes the same mistakes week after week (runs into sacks, locks onto 1 receiver, will not throw the ball for his receiver to make a play on it) and people continue to make excuses for him. I just don't get it.



Im sorry but i have to disagree with you Carr is the best QB in the league and those are just stat and they dont mean anything so what if carr cant throw. so what if he leads the league in fumbles its not david carr fault everyone else is at fault but david he has never been given the opportunity to succeed if only he had the Chiefs offensive line or carson palmers ability or peyton manning arms of even the football smart as Kyle Boller i said that sad but true. or better yet if this wasnt the NFL and this was The WAC David Carr would do good so see its not David Fault that Casserly drafted the second coming of heath shuler\ Tim couch

Napa Auto Parts
12-20-2005, 01:35 AM
[QUOTE=xtruroyaltyxI think he has earned enough experience to be a very, very, very, good..almost excellent.... back-up for years...[/QUOTE]



that is harsh

billtxus
12-20-2005, 08:02 AM
Well its seems that in the first half of Sunday's game Carr called all the plays, which resulted in a 24 points and the largest scoring quarter of Texans history. Then, for reasons known only to Capers, Joe Pendry called the plays the second half, and netted 63 total yards. I'll stick with Carr. Chalk up Pendry as another dead man, and another nail in Capers coffen for switching.

Malloy
12-20-2005, 08:13 AM
... but Carr has the victory and the coaches took over the second half. Carr didn't really need to throw the ball the 2nd half, NAvarre did.

Exactly, thank you.

abbest
12-20-2005, 06:18 PM
Apologist? Who me? :rolleyes:

The problem with football is, everyone is interconnected. If we were horse racing and the horse loses, well maybe it's his trainer or his jockey or his diet or too much studding, but most likely, the horse just sucks. Take him out to pasture and buy another.

Carr's offense can score three TDs a week, but if Fangio's defense gives up four, we lose. If Pendry calls the plays and his playcalling sucks, well that makes it harder to score, and we lose. Joe Montana in his prime can take our snaps, but if he has an average of 1.5 seconds to throw the ball, guess what? We lose.

I guess the fact is you do not like Carr on the field and I do. Let's just call it for what it is, and that's it right there. We both have facts and opinions to back up our positions. I haven't reserved his seat in the HOF yet, but I still tend to think he has what it takes to get the job done, and only once we build him a competent team and system to play with/in, will I be satisfied once and for all that he is or is not the man for the job.

If that makes me an apologist, so be it. In the meanwhile, keep kissing that Vince Young poster before you go to bed at night, if that's what helps you to sleep.Our Carr is a lemon and you`re still in denial.

Elite
12-20-2005, 10:22 PM
All you have is shallow excuses and I am clueless? QB's in the NFL are measured in wins and statistics. Carr has been a failure in both categories.




True No one can argue with that.

TexanAlmighty
12-21-2005, 11:44 AM
Carr calling plays in 2nd quarter = 24 points. Pendry calling plays in 2nd half = 6 points. Carr needs to be given the keys to the offense.

Nuff said.

TexanAlmighty
12-21-2005, 11:45 AM
Our Carr is a lemon and you`re still in denial.

If Carr is a lemon we will make lemonade.:rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
12-21-2005, 11:46 AM
Carr calling plays in 2nd quarter = 24 points. Pendry calling plays in 2nd half = 6 points. Carr needs to be given the keys to the offense.

Nuff said.

If it were that easy we would not be having the conversation.

gg no re
12-21-2005, 11:59 AM
It is that easy.

It's just that the coaching staff ifears change,, and want to keep their bushes instead of being cursed with the legs of a goat.

Honoring Earl 34
12-21-2005, 12:23 PM
:twocents: I wonder how much of Carr's future is in Reeves hands . What if Reeves tells Bob that Carr's not the man ... we are set back two maybe three years farther back than we are now . Thats about the point we would be if Carr never improves .

We will never get answers to alot of questions because of the Texans failure to bench Carr no matter what . Theres no proof to really say Wongers wrong in his assesment because there nothing to compare it to . The same can be said for the pro Carr camp ... nobody's stepped in and fared worse .

I have no doubt that Reeves can look at film and come up with a solid assesment of Carr , the OL , the play calling , and so on . My hunch is Carr's future is not that of great QB but maybe a good one if the right coach is brought in . You don't pay good QB's big money .

Bubbajwp
12-21-2005, 12:44 PM
Breaking news: Wonger hates David Carr.

In other news: Water is wet,grass is green and the Steelers wear Black and Gold.
I think wonger just enjoys pissing everybody off.

God of Wine
12-21-2005, 01:44 PM
I think wonger just enjoys pissing everybody off.


B-I-N-G-O

Bubbajwp
12-21-2005, 02:11 PM
I dont think I have ever heard him talk about a player other than Carr.

TexanAlmighty
12-21-2005, 03:34 PM
I dont think I have ever heard him talk about a player other than Carr.

Specifically no he hasn't, all negative from what I have seen. Kinda wish he would fall off the bandwagon.:twocents:

DRAMA
12-21-2005, 06:51 PM
:twocents: I wonder how much of Carr's future is in Reeves hands.

Carr's future is in his OWN hands. He needs to realize that these coaches will not be here next year and that he needs to audible to something other than the flip side of the original call.

THROW THE DAMN BALL DOWNFIELD!!!

(...and exhale.) :)