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View Full Version : Winning the next 2 games could be a disaster for the future


Hookem Horns
12-19-2005, 01:05 AM
I know most of you are not rooting against the Texans. I honestly don't actively root against them either however if the Texans finish 4-12 they not only would not have the #1 pick, they may not have a top 5 pick.

I was looking at the standings and this has to be the worst season I have ever seen for being bad. There are so many horrible teams this year with 4 or less wins. Right now there are 11 teams (a 3rd of the league) that have 4 wins or less out of 14 games. 5 teams have 3 or less wins and 2 have 2 wins or less. If the season ended today a 4-10 team would be drafting at #11.

I am sure some of these 4 win teams will play each other, however on the surface, right now it looks like a team could finish 4-12 this season and only have the 11th pick in the draft. Ouch.

non natural texan
12-19-2005, 01:14 AM
Ahhh... I just say win the rest since we won today. I gurantee the guys won't let Jacksonville run all over them and the 49ers game will probaly go their way considering that the threats of firings and cuts are ringing much louder for the Texans than the 49ers.

Remember the guys on the team are playing for a paycheck, not for next season because as it stands right now for a lot of players if they stink it up these last two they will be looking for another job in the spring. You don't always get picked up after being cut from the worst team. Never forget that the team isn't playing for you, they're playing for themselves and the team before the fans.

Also looking way ahead, aside from Bush is their anyone other than the lineman from B.C. that we could miss out in picking from the 5-10 spot? No, Linert and Young are not options. Unless we trade them away.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 01:18 AM
I know most of you are not rooting against the Texans. I honestly don't actively root against them either however if the Texans finish 4-12 they not only would not have the #1 pick, they may not have a top 5 pick.

I was looking at the standings and this has to be the worst season I have ever seen for being bad. There are so many horrible teams this year with 4 or less wins. Right now there are 11 teams (a 3rd of the league) that have 4 wins or less out of 14 games. 5 teams have 3 or less wins and 2 have 2 wins or less. If the season ended today a 4-10 team would be drafting at #11.

I am sure some of these 4 win teams will play each other, however on the surface, right now it looks like a team could finish 4-12 this season and only have the 11th pick in the draft. Ouch.

Win the rest, then trade the pick -- no matter what it is.

Keyser Soze
12-19-2005, 01:24 AM
It took us until the 14th week of the season to not be the worst team in the league. Now we're just tied for being the worst.

To go through 85% of the season as the worst team in the NFL, only to finish with a draft pick outside of the top 5 - who could be happy about that?

Only the Texans could manage that. It's been that kind of year.

non natural texan
12-19-2005, 01:27 AM
Agreed, we've been this bad so far why not just seal the deal... but again the players aren't close to thinking that way.

aj.
12-19-2005, 07:41 AM
Rooting to be the worst team in the league just so you can have the first pick of the draft tells me a lot about this fan base. And what it tells me is not flattering btw.

I'm sick of losing too but I'm getting so freaking tired of hearing [that name] I'm about to (with all due apologies to Preston, Jamie, et al) go postal.

I would take [that name] if we happened to end up with the first pick but to actually go out of your way to try to get that pick? That should be sickening to anyone who has any morsel of competitive spirit their body. I want to win every time we take the field even though I know it won't happen.

I was talking to this random guy yesterday before the game - we were down in the first row - Toro's tunnel in front of Section 101, and after listening to his "we need to lose today" rant, he started going off on all kinds of ridiculous things which ...... I tuned out so I could turn my attention to the pregame skit because it was more intellectually stimulating.

Speaking of that, Toro came dangerously close to running over Phillip Burguieres (Texans Vice Chair and #2 man) as he sped out of the tunnel with his four wheeler to body slam the redbird. Mr B was just standing there talking to his wife and he was so startled, he jumped about a foot in the air as Toro sped past - missed him by a foot maybe. There was a policeman there who was keeping the area 'clear' but where I work, the safety dept would log that one as a close call.

nunusguy
12-19-2005, 08:02 AM
Yesterdays result was really a lose-lose situation. After Warner and his backup were both knocked out of the game in the first half, its a wasted
effort to prove we can go 500 against 3rd string QBs. And we probably took a costly step backwards in next Aprils college Draft.

Vinny
12-19-2005, 08:16 AM
I hope we win out and hire a new coach and get on with the off season purging. I'm too competitive to root for anything I do or support to fail, and this team will undergo changes no matter what happens at this point. I want these players thinking they are part of the answer and not a part of the problem going into this critical offseason. I'm sick of this team being a national joke and I'm glad we are showing we are not the league's most embarrassing team by beating a sad sack Cardinals franchise with a loser owner and his loser team. There are plenty of young men in this draft who can make our team better.

OzzO
12-19-2005, 08:17 AM
Winning the next two games would be a great morale boost for the the team and it's fans going into the offseason. Realizing that we're not as broke as we think we were (not as much as say the 'niners or cards) and that a "demi-god" would be a nice addition, but may allow us to focus to other needs.

So, we drop in the overall pick - wow, so that means our GM and scouts may actually have to do some research, game planning, and mock drafts this offseason? Imagine that.

Being at the game, loved that that fans were cheering the accomplishments and then the standing applause after the win as the team left the field - that had to make them feel good.

I understand the long term arguement, but since the draft is a hit / miss - I'd rather see what we have now. And if would've lost again yesterday... to a 3rd stringer.... the team, owner, consultant, media, fans.... would've had a field day with that one.

Texas_Thrill
12-19-2005, 08:21 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I have an uneasy feeling that winning out might prompt mcnair to bring casserly or capers or both back. Make Reeves Director of player personnel???

I want us to win but at what cost to the LONG-term implications of this team I'm not so sure. Sometimes taking a step BACK helps you take many more FORWARD.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 08:22 AM
Here is a thought for all of the people who want Bush, write the Texans front office and ask them to trade up for the #1 in the event we do not get it. If he is as valuable as you think then go ahead and let us know who and what you would like to give up? Otherwise go and root for the other two losing Texan teams (this week) - Saints and Cowboys.

Vinny
12-19-2005, 08:23 AM
I want us to win but at what cost to the LONG-term implications of this team I'm not so sure. Sometimes taking a step BACK helps you take many more FORWARD.Reinforcing the fact that you are a loser (players of course) is more damaging to this team long term than this team trying hard and figuring they are a collection of losers who can't compete. It's impossible to turn over the majority of this roster overnight.....I would rather not have losing disease their collective minds.

Texas_Thrill
12-19-2005, 08:29 AM
I don't believe us as fans nor this team believe they are losers Vinny. I think we can attribute a great deal of this teams problems to some poor coaching and being OVERLY conservative. I think a new coaching staff brings a new attitude regardless of how much of the roster we turn over or don't.

For goodness sake look at the Bengals before Lewis.

Jack Bauer
12-19-2005, 08:33 AM
The Bengals are a good example of why we want to win these last two games. Once you fall into a "Loser" mentality, it is hard to get out of that mentality. It took someone like Marvin Lewis to make it work.

WHY DIDN'T WE HIRE MARVIN LEWIS WHEN WE HAD THE CHANCE???

I know, hindsight is 20/20. :brickwall

Vinny
12-19-2005, 08:33 AM
I don't believe us as fans nor this team believe they are losers Vinny. Losing over and over and being physically beat in a physical game gives you a different mindset and you become one even though you may not think you are one personally. In the back of your mind you know you have been beat down before and you know you can only pick on teams like the Cardinals....who happen to be losers, like you.

For goodness sake look at the Bengals before Lewis.and they were losers and the joke of the NFL for a over decade....all while rooting for that draft slot. I may not have a decade to wait and I don't want our team to be the joke of the league for any length of time.

SteelBlueToro
12-19-2005, 09:04 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I have an uneasy feeling that winning out might prompt mcnair to bring casserly or capers or both back. Make Reeves Director of player personnel???

I want us to win but at what cost to the LONG-term implications of this team I'm not so sure. Sometimes taking a step BACK helps you take many more FORWARD.


Yep...

eriadoc
12-19-2005, 09:17 AM
If we win a few and drop some spots in the draft, it'll just put us in better position to draft what we should in the first place. Go Texans! Win out!!

Runner
12-19-2005, 09:22 AM
There is too much short term thinking on this board. I say after we tank this season and get Bush, we tank the next season and get Brady Quinn - maybe Vince Young. It is too early for me to say if we should tank a third season; I need a chance to look at next year's underclassmen.

Following this plan we could be very talented in 3-5 years, if we can work the cap to keep everybody.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 09:25 AM
There is too much short term thinking on this board. I say after we tank this season and get Bush, we tank the next season and get Brady Quinn - maybe Vince Young. It is too early for me to say if we should tank a third season; I need a chance to look at next year's underclassmen.

Following this plan we could be very talented in 3-5 years, if we can work the cap to keep everybody.

Nice.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 09:33 AM
It took us until the 14th week of the season to not be the worst team in the league. Now we're just tied for being the worst.

To go through 85% of the season as the worst team in the NFL, only to finish with a draft pick outside of the top 5 - who could be happy about that?

Only the Texans could manage that. It's been that kind of year.

I could care less if the pick is #1 or 3 or 5 or what. The goal is always to win, no matter what the record. I'm happy when the team wins, even if it is just the second victory. Whatever the draft pick is, it will have trade value.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 09:36 AM
Yesterdays result was really a lose-lose situation. After Warner and his backup were both knocked out of the game in the first half, its a wasted
effort to prove we can go 500 against 3rd string QBs. And we probably took a costly step backwards in next Aprils college Draft.

So they were supposed to just quit and go 0-2 for the sake of a higher draft pick? Sounds like stinkin' thinkin' to me!

gcolby
12-19-2005, 09:54 AM
You always try to win games, no matter if you are going to lose your shot at the first pick, or if you are 15-0. You sold the tickets, you have an obligation to play your best at all times.

And as for folks who are in love with the Reggie Bush concept, please go read King's MMQ over on the si.com website this morning. He discusses why Alexander and other 'prime' running backs don't get the big payday, and I would point out that the same concept applies to passing on Reggie Bush, if we lose that first pick status.

Glen

Sarg01
12-19-2005, 09:55 AM
I don't know that I'd call it disaster. However, it is fairly clear that there is trade interest for both the #1 and #2 spots this year, in clear difference to years past where you almost got the sense that trade-up offers were doing a favor to the higher drafting team. However, some people are deluding themselves about the trade value of the #1. People keep assuming we'll get something like two firsts, two seconds and an elite veteran. Yeah, right.

If we hold the #1 or #2 pick, we can almost certainly get two players out of the deal - one of whom will be a top-half first rounder. If we win out, we get a top-half first rounder. This does involve sacrificing a first-day draft pick, which isn't quite a disaster, though it is a "loss" of sorts, particularly this year where we would have a good shot at a starter in the second round.

As it seems almost every year, we once again have one of the highest strength of schedules in the league, so expect us to pick among the bottom of each "victory group" (3 wins, 4 wins, etc.). The exception to this is the 2-win group, where SF is right up there with us on strength of schedule, close enough to swing in either direction.

I can't root for them to lose, but the difference between 3 and 4 wins is likely to be a starter for the next 5 years and that's a tough price to pay for a single game. The good news is until we beat Jacksonville, I don't have to choose between the two. :yahoo:

Bobo
12-19-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't know that I'd call it disaster. However, it is fairly clear that there is trade interest for both the #1 and #2 spots this year, in clear difference to years past where you almost got the sense that trade-up offers were doing a favor to the higher drafting team. However, some people are deluding themselves about the trade value of the #1. People keep assuming we'll get something like two firsts, two seconds and an elite veteran. Yeah, right.

If we hold the #1 or #2 pick, we can almost certainly get two players out of the deal - one of whom will be a top-half first rounder. If we win out, we get a top-half first rounder. This does involve sacrificing a first-day draft pick, which isn't quite a disaster, though it is a "loss" of sorts, particularly this year where we would have a good shot at a starter in the second round.

As it seems almost every year, we once again have one of the highest strength of schedules in the league, so expect us to pick among the bottom of each "victory group" (3 wins, 4 wins, etc.). The exception to this is the 2-win group, where SF is right up there with us on strength of schedule, close enough to swing in either direction.

I can't root for them to lose, but the difference between 3 and 4 wins is likely to be a starter for the next 5 years and that's a tough price to pay for a single game. The good news is until we beat Jacksonville, I don't have to choose between the two. :yahoo:

It's not the number of players, but the quality. If you aren't in position to draft Bush, there will be plenty of interest for Leinert -- from the Jets for sure. How much you get for the pick would be anyone's guess. Since the Jets are in a rebuilding mode themselves, you probably won't get a lot of draft picks. But their may be a team lower in the draft order that believes a Reggie Bush would get them to the next level and could have more to offer. Who knows who that could be. After all, remember that the Bills drafted McGahee when they already had Travis Henry. If the brain trust on a particular team falls in love with a particular player, they'll do anything to get him. Remember Mike Ditka and Ricky Williams?

David's Busted Carr
12-19-2005, 10:06 AM
Rooting to be the worst team in the league just so you can have the first pick of the draft tells me a lot about this fan base. And what it tells me is not flattering btw.

I'm sick of losing too but I'm getting so freaking tired of hearing [that name] I'm about to (with all due apologies to Preston, Jamie, et al) go postal.

I would take [that name] if we happened to end up with the first pick but to actually go out of your way to try to get that pick? That should be sickening to anyone who has any morsel of competitive spirit their body. I want to win every time we take the field even though I know it won't happen.

I was talking to this random guy yesterday before the game - we were down in the first row - Toro's tunnel in front of Section 101, and after listening to his "we need to lose today" rant, he started going off on all kinds of ridiculous things which ...... I tuned out so I could turn my attention to the pregame skit because it was more intellectually stimulating.



I don't look at it as "cheering for us to lose". I see it as what is best for our franchise in the future. It makes ZERO difference if we finish 4-12 or 2-14. We are a HORRIBLE team either way. But in order for us to improve we need some STAR players. We have ZERO yes ZERO star players. At least if we get the top pick you bring in a STAR player and have a renewed hope next year. I will not be happy if they come back with the same set of clowns they have this year and just add a rookie OL or 2. That will do very little good for us IMO.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 10:07 AM
I don't know that I'd call it disaster. However, it is fairly clear that there is trade interest for both the #1 and #2 spots this year, in clear difference to years past where you almost got the sense that trade-up offers were doing a favor to the higher drafting team. However, some people are deluding themselves about the trade value of the #1. People keep assuming we'll get something like two firsts, two seconds and an elite veteran. Yeah, right.

If we hold the #1 or #2 pick, we can almost certainly get two players out of the deal - one of whom will be a top-half first rounder. If we win out, we get a top-half first rounder. This does involve sacrificing a first-day draft pick, which isn't quite a disaster, though it is a "loss" of sorts, particularly this year where we would have a good shot at a starter in the second round.

As it seems almost every year, we once again have one of the highest strength of schedules in the league, so expect us to pick among the bottom of each "victory group" (3 wins, 4 wins, etc.). The exception to this is the 2-win group, where SF is right up there with us on strength of schedule, close enough to swing in either direction.

I can't root for them to lose, but the difference between 3 and 4 wins is likely to be a starter for the next 5 years and that's a tough price to pay for a single game. The good news is until we beat Jacksonville, I don't have to choose between the two. :yahoo:

I think you still get a starter for the next five years if you win four games.

Kaiser Toro
12-19-2005, 10:09 AM
I don't look at it as "cheering for us to lose". I see it as what is best for our franchise in the future. It makes ZERO difference if we finish 4-12 or 2-14. We are a HORRIBLE team either way. But in order for us to improve we need some STAR players. We have ZERO yes ZERO star players. At least if we get the top pick you bring in a STAR player and have a renewed hope next year. I will not be happy if they come back with the same set of clowns they have this year and just add a rookie OL or 2. That will do very little good for us IMO.

You are talking about a star player in college. We have other star players from college who have not done jack in their career.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 10:11 AM
I don't look at it as "cheering for us to lose". I see it as what is best for our franchise in the future. It makes ZERO difference if we finish 4-12 or 2-14. We are a HORRIBLE team either way. But in order for us to improve we need some STAR players. We have ZERO yes ZERO star players. At least if we get the top pick you bring in a STAR player and have a renewed hope next year. I will not be happy if they come back with the same set of clowns they have this year and just add a rookie OL or 2. That will do very little good for us IMO.

No matter what game you play, you always have to play to win -- even for the sake of avoiding injury. Besides, you don't need star players to win. You just need good players at all or most of the positions. And if you do that, good players you already have (Johnson, Carr, Davis) become better.

Bobo
12-19-2005, 10:14 AM
I don't look at it as "cheering for us to lose". I see it as what is best for our franchise in the future. It makes ZERO difference if we finish 4-12 or 2-14. We are a HORRIBLE team either way. But in order for us to improve we need some STAR players. We have ZERO yes ZERO star players. At least if we get the top pick you bring in a STAR player and have a renewed hope next year. I will not be happy if they come back with the same set of clowns they have this year and just add a rookie OL or 2. That will do very little good for us IMO.

Like somebody already said, a star college player doesn't necessarily turn out to be a star in the pros. Remember Lawrence Phillips, Curtis Enis, Archie Griffin and Kiyanna Carter? Besides, if you get a couple of good OL this draft and then two more next time, then most of your line problems will be solved by 2007 for years. Then watch what happens to the production of Davis, Carr and Johnson.

SESupergenius
12-19-2005, 10:28 AM
You are what you are at the end of the season. You would sacrifice 53 players just to get 1??? Nice. Even our fans have a loser mentality.

UGA
12-19-2005, 10:58 AM
lol @ shaking the loser mentality by winning games against Arizona and San Fransisco. the players should play to win, but i hope we lose out and get the top pick. we win out, we drop to the 5-10 area, dont get a ringer draft selection and dont have any real intrest for the slot from other teams.

this draft we need to be 1 or 2, or else or draft day succes will be drastically downgraded. nobody will pay big to get a 5-10 spot this year, and we are not going to get a real "star". its a lose, lose situation.

we wont beat jacksonville unless they bench the entire team, my only worry is that san fransisco wants to keep bush in cali and could bench what players they have with a pulse to win the sweepstakes.

but dont kid yourselves, the texans are a horrible team, and need the top spot in the draft next year. who cares about the mental status of this team, they stink and half of them should be canned anyway.

im rooting for losing out, giving at least a third of this team their pink slips, and starting over with Bush and AJ as the real "franchise" players.

nunusguy
12-19-2005, 11:45 AM
Winning the next two games would be a great morale boost for the the team and it's fans going into the offseason.
I can't really enthuistically support a philosophy that promotes
anything short of winning, but feel at this point in this season maximizing the
value of our Draft picks is the most practical and realistic solution for success
in future seasons. And I think getting "a" Reggie Bush type would do far more
to recapture fan and team morale than winning a couple moree games. Players
talk about getting over a tough loss so they can prepare for the next weekends game, I think they may have a virtual case of amnesia in the offseason and go into a new training camp & season with a clean slate mentally speaking.

BigDTexansFan
12-19-2005, 12:10 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I have an uneasy feeling that winning out might prompt mcnair to bring casserly or capers or both back. Make Reeves Director of player personnel???

I want us to win but at what cost to the LONG-term implications of this team I'm not so sure. Sometimes taking a step BACK helps you take many more FORWARD.


I think even with a 3 game win streak, Capers and Casserly are as gone as 2005. Had we won most of those close games and went 7-9 to 9-7 Capers and Casserly stay, 2-14 to 4-12 they both gone and now it is all about pride.

We have a a great QB, RB and 1 possibly 2 WRs (Jerome Mathis hope you listening), we need help on OL so they are consistent not consistently BAD.

Defense I like our secondary as it stands right now, Petey, Dunta, CC and Glenn. I think we need some help at LB and a freak of nature like Dwight Freeney to disrupt offense of opponent, fix those few problems and get rid of 3 step drop crap and zone blocking. I think we are like San Diego of 2003 4-12 and 12-4 in 2004 with a playoff team:redtowel: