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UGA
12-16-2005, 05:48 PM
Like fools we will trade down for proper "value".

We will be like the team that drafted Bowie and passed on Jordan because of "need".

There is no trade that gives proper value for Bush, and trying to figure out scenarios not to draft him are ridiculous.

The Texans will screw it up...

TTT for the Davis/Bush combo

Coach C.
12-16-2005, 05:49 PM
Wow this is your first post. Well at least you are starting off on a foot.

royce1054
12-16-2005, 05:54 PM
You are making no sense. We are drafting a player we dont NEED. Some people want him but they arent looking at the whole picture. DD has been what a top 12-13 runner in the past couple of years with a decent-average O-line. Plus Bush doesnt like to run between the tackles and the 1st time a dwight freeney or Robert Mathis, henderson.. ect gets a free shot on him with our O-line its going to be horrible. Plus he mostly plays the Pac-10. The talent out their isnt as good as the SEC, or Big 12. We will see how he does when they play Texas. Texas' D will lay some hits on him. Plus anyways what good is a RB to be an extra weapon if your QB is on his @ss all the time. Drafting him makes no sense what so ever. We would be better off trading down taking an OL, CB to be opposite Dunta. TE will come in 2nd or 3rd round. You dont waste the 1st pick in the draft on a player you dont need. We have dire needs at OL, CB, TE, DB's please look at the overall picture not with tunnel vision

Double Barrel
12-16-2005, 05:55 PM
Hey, we've got three games to go! There is no guarantee that we'll even have the no. 1 pick.

This season could still mathematically end at 4-12, and we'd be down the list a bit. And honestly, I'd like to beat the Jaguars on Christmas Eve, especially if it means we are spoilers once again and prevent them from getting into the playoffs. :heh:

Ibar_Harry
12-16-2005, 05:57 PM
If you go listen to the John McClain show he has talked to 5 or so scouts he really respects and he says the Texans would be absolute fools not to take Bush. Thinks he is the reincarnation of Gayle Sayers. Yes, and there was Cedric Benson too.........

royce1054
12-16-2005, 05:59 PM
If we do draft Bush and we dont sign any FA O-lineman. We will be picking in the top 5 again next year with lower attendance. It wont accomplish anything

Vinny
12-16-2005, 06:02 PM
How are all you guys so sure what we will do or what we won't do? Nobody here even knows who the Coach and GM will be....how the heck are we supposed to know what they will be thinking when the draft rolls around?

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:15 PM
You are making no sense. We are drafting a player we dont NEED.

And the nets didnt draft Jordan because Bowie filled in a "need" for a big man.

You take the best talent... PERIOD

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:17 PM
If we do draft Bush and we dont sign any FA O-lineman. We will be picking in the top 5 again next year with lower attendance. It wont accomplish anything

we will be frced to address the line because for years now Casserly has not. with Bush, Davis and Carr we will have to address the line via later picks and FA.

but that has nothing to do with us trying to talk our way out of picking one of the best talents to come down the pipe in years.

royce1054
12-16-2005, 06:19 PM
And the nets didnt draft Jordan because Bowie filled in a "need" for a big man.

You take the best talent... PERIOD


This isnt basketball. In that sport you can get away with drafting the best player and letting him throw a ball at a hoop. Football takes 10X as much teamwork to work. If each player doesnt do his job then some either gets hurt. Basketball someone messes up a play they miss the bucket o who cares. Stop comparing an A sport like football to a C sport in basketball

Coach C.
12-16-2005, 06:20 PM
Bush is not a better prospect than either Manning or even Phillip Rivers. So how could he be the best prospect in years. A franchise QB is so much more important than a RB.

royce1054
12-16-2005, 06:22 PM
Bush is not a better prospect than either Manning or even Phillip Rivers. So how could he be the best prospect in years. A franchise QB is so much more important than a RB.


That is a true statement i think the average lifespan of a RB is what 4-4.5 years...

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:23 PM
How are all you guys so sure what we will do or what we won't do? Nobody here even knows who the Coach and GM will be....how the heck are we supposed to know what they will be thinking when the draft rolls around?

Well the owner stated in the Justice article that he we didnt "need" help at RB. And while theoretically he is correct, it would be a huge blunder to pass on this guy.

If Casserly is around i garuntee we will pass on him. He'd trade down and "project" another Pitts or Babin as world burners. He's crushed this franchise and he will do so by passing on Bush.

The bottom line is i dont trust anyone in the Texans organization, and i sense that we will make a gigantic blunder in the draft by avoiding Bush for "value" and "need".

As if "need" was ever a concern for this organization. Check our offensive line and our "attempts" to improve it and explain our excellent record going for "need" over raw talent.

Bush or bust. We are sitting on a winning lottery ticket...

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:26 PM
Bush is not a better prospect than either Manning or even Phillip Rivers. So how could he be the best prospect in years. A franchise QB is so much more important than a RB.

Bush isnt a better prospect then Phillip Rivers? Give me a break. Bush is said to be the re-incarnate of Gayle Sayers...

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:30 PM
This isnt basketball. In that sport you can get away with drafting the best player and letting him throw a ball at a hoop. Football takes 10X as much teamwork to work. If each player doesnt do his job then some either gets hurt. Basketball someone messes up a play they miss the bucket o who cares. Stop comparing an A sport like football to a C sport in basketball

Its an analogy...obviously the two sports are different.

But youll go much further as a football team getting the most talent you can. The Texans are the most stale team in the league. We need raw talent and skill. Bush is bar none the best college football player in the country and we have to take the best player available. We are so horrible that we cannot afford to pass on undeniable talent for "value" or "need".

Face it, we are in another rebulding phase for at least 2 years... we dont need to patch up this gang of no hopers, we need to dump a third of the team and build around Bush, Carr, Johnson and Davis. (ie...SIGN A COUPLE LINEMAN WITH A PULSE).

royce1054
12-16-2005, 06:31 PM
Bush isnt a better prospect then Phillip Rivers? Give me a break. Bush is said to be the re-incarnate of Gayle Sayers...


no 1 knows that til he is on field. He could be a Kajana Carter or a Blair Thomas

Jack Bauer
12-16-2005, 06:38 PM
And the nets didnt draft Jordan because Bowie filled in a "need" for a big man.

You take the best talent... PERIOD

Not to be picky, but it was the Portland Trailblazers that passed on Jordan to draft Bowie. That being said, we should draft Bush!

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:40 PM
no 1 knows that til he is on field. He could be a Kajana Carter or a Blair Thomas

So your going to pass the best talent in years because your afraid? Come on now, the dude has serious pedigree to be a success, and trying to talk yourself out of him as a player is ridiculous. If your afraid he is going to fail, then you must be trembling about anyone else since they arent perceived as anywhere near the talent as Bush.

If your "value" or "need" plays can be busts then that only further reinforces why you have to take the best of the lot and live with the outcome. Dont fail going for second best types...

royce1054
12-16-2005, 06:50 PM
So your going to pass the best talent in years because your afraid? Come on now, the dude has serious pedigree to be a success, and trying to talk yourself out of him as a player is ridiculous. If your afraid he is going to fail, then you must be trembling about anyone else since they arent perceived as anywhere near the talent as Bush.

If your "value" or "need" plays can be busts then that only further reinforces why you have to take the best of the lot and live with the outcome. Dont fail going for second best types...

No i am passing on a talent we dont need and we can get multiple picks back. Possibly a 1st next year. We dont need a RB we have a good RB. We need other positions to help protect Carr. If Carr wasnt on his @ss the whole time we wouldnt be having this conversation. We need to upgrade our O-line nto worry about a player we dont need. Plus this is going to be Dan Reeves drafting not Casserly and Reeves makes better picks that will actually help us. If we wanted Bush we could of just let Casserly draft

UGA
12-16-2005, 06:59 PM
No i am passing on a talent we dont need and we can get multiple picks back. Possibly a 1st next year.

Who cares about a first NEXT year we we have a ringer 1sr round selection THIS year?

We dont need a RB we have a good RB.

We have an above average RB, not a great back. With Bush and Davis we will have a hell of a one two punch. Plus Bush does so many more things then Davis. He is a stud on special teams, can play in the slot....

We need other positions to help protect Carr.

We can address the line with our other 6 picks and free agency. We dont have to pass on a playmaker just because casserly has ignored the line.

If we wanted Bush we could of just let Casserly draft

Casserly would pass on Bush. And Casserly is responsible for this mess of a team...

Plus this is going to be Dan Reeves drafting not Casserly and Reeves makes better picks that will actually help us.

Reeves put his entire future on the line in ATL to move up for Vick. He understands you need playmakers, he isnt a "value" drafter. They could have drafted Tomlinson and gained picks to do so... they opted against it.

If you think Bush doesnt help us, your crazy. trading down to get second tier types helps nobody.

royce1054
12-16-2005, 07:09 PM
Well first of all you have it wrong. Davis is not decent he is good. Its the protection we get for Carr in the passing game that adds that 8th man in the box and the lack of a TE that makes DD rushing yards look worse than they really should be. I can tell you dont know what you are talking about. I see you just go with what you see an hear on the radio and TV which are 90-95% wrong. Do some research and then come back and give some points. Its not just about this year its about the years in the future too. To be honest minus 1 possible tank, 2 referee mess ups and, 1 horrible defensive stand we could have 5 wins now. So if we can trade down and get an advantage off of this for this year and next year thats just 2+2. Not only could we trade down to the Jets or SF but then there is a possibility that we could trade down again. Reeves will come up with something to bring in his own players and better 2,3,4 ect talent. Then we package some of those picks we get and we trade back in the 1st round or early 2nd and pick up maybe a Huff, Giles, Davis. Dont have tunnel vision here which is what you have. Do some research then come back and chat here.

rmartin65
12-16-2005, 07:23 PM
Just because a guy is amazing in college does not mean he will be a star in the NFL. A few examples at RB are Kijana Carter(1st overall), Blair Thomas(2nd overall), Lawrence Philips(6th overall), Alonzo Highsmith(3rd overall), Brent Fullwood(4th overall), Curtis Enis(5th overall) and I would even through in Archie Griffin(24 overall). The NFL and the NCAA game are totally different.

royce1054
12-16-2005, 07:26 PM
good list... that is an excellent point you have

Coach C.
12-16-2005, 07:38 PM
Man I am not even going to imply that Reggie Bush is not a tremendous talent. He is, he is fast, quick, and a stand up guy. He will also command 50+ million and cost us a good RB in Davis. Not to mention he changes the complete dynamic of the team. Bush you cant run 20 times to bang it in there. The fact is if we get Bush we need to get a power back in order to get first downs. Think about the NFL and the amount of 40+ yd runs. Is Bush really that necessary. I hope SF gets him and he has a good career. As good as a small back such as him can have. At first I compared him to Brian Westbrook, but now that I have watched more film he will be similar to Tiki Barber. That is a damn good back, not a HOF, but damn good. Personally I dont pay Tiki 50+ when my team has holes that I can fill with top talent instead of 4-6th round talent.

jacquescas
12-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Hey the thing about Bush being to small he is the same size or bigger than Tiki Barber and Warrick Dunn ... both have over 1000 yards this season. Davis has a tradable contract and he has injury concerns.

run-david-run
12-16-2005, 07:41 PM
Its an analogy...obviously the two sports are different.

But youll go much further as a football team getting the most talent you can. The Texans are the most stale team in the league. We need raw talent and skill. Bush is bar none the best college football player in the country and we have to take the best player available. We are so horrible that we cannot afford to pass on undeniable talent for "value" or "need".

Face it, we are in another rebulding phase for at least 2 years... we dont need to patch up this gang of no hopers, we need to dump a third of the team and build around Bush, Carr, Johnson and Davis. (ie...SIGN A COUPLE LINEMAN WITH A PULSE).

This team is leading the NFL is sacks allowed for the 4th year in a row. We have existed as an NFL franchise for 4 years. If you truly want to dump a third of the team, as you suggest, the best place to find replacements is in the draft. If we are smart with the way we use our 1st overall pick, assuming we get it, we could end up with a pick in the 3-5 range, the 33rd pick, then depending on who we trade with another top 5 pick in the second round. That gives us 3 1st day picks, all of them in the top 37. Then we should get another 3rd round pick, giving us 3 rd rounders. All of them also in the top 5. This means that of the first 96 picks in the draft, we will have 6, all of them in the top 5 of their respective rounds. We should also get an extra 1st rouder for next season, depending on the competiton for Bush.

So, you could end up with D'Brick, Davin Josheph, Michael Huff, Tim Day, DeMario Minter along with 5 others... or you could have Reggie Bush with no guarantees at the players listed above. One player, no matter how good, is going to make a 1-15 team good.. no matter how good he is

royce1054
12-16-2005, 07:45 PM
Hey the thing about Bush being to small he is the same size or bigger than Tiki Barber and Warrick Dunn ... both have over 1000 yards this season. Davis has a tradable contract and he has injury concerns.


If we had the O-line of NYG then i would say go for it but we dont. Plus if we had a shockey or a crumpler then it might work

texan279
12-16-2005, 07:51 PM
And the nets didnt draft Jordan because Bowie filled in a "need" for a big man.

You take the best talent... PERIOD

In basketball you only have 5 players on the court at once, in football there are 11. We are not a good enough team right now to use the 1st overall pick, if we get it, on a potential NFL superstar, and think he can turn a 1-12 team into a 12-1 team. And you say take the best talent period, so hypothetically speaking if Leinhart was the best talent in this year's draft are you saying we should draft him?

HardCoreTxn
12-16-2005, 08:01 PM
We have an above average RB, not a great back. With Bush and Davis we will have a hell of a one two punch. Plus Bush does so many more things then Davis. He is a stud on special teams, can play in the slot....

If we had an average or above average O-Line DD would be a great RB and not just above average. and we dont need a PR/KR


We can address the line with our other 6 picks and free agency. We dont have to pass on a playmaker just because casserly has ignored the line.


Havent we tried this the last 2 or 3 years..we need a #1 O-Lineman (D'Brickashaw Ferguson), we should have gotten Alex Baron last year and NOT Travis Johnson


If you think Bush doesnt help us, your crazy. trading down to get second tier types helps nobody.

It helps David Carr, the most important player on the offense, why put Bush behind this O-Line with 4th and 5th round O-lineman, it would only ruin his career like its doing to Carr, Johnson, Davis and Gaffney. Peyton Manning or L.T. could not work behind this line. Sorry but I just cant understand how people are so quick to discard DD after what he's done this year behind a O-line full of high schoolers.
I think they should trade down for Bush, draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson and then a LB or CB then pick up LaCharles Bently and Steve Hutchinson from free agency. :twocents:

royce1054
12-16-2005, 08:03 PM
Wow this is a big change of tune from 2 wks ago.

JDizzle
12-16-2005, 09:17 PM
Face it, we are in another rebulding phase for at least 2 years... we dont need to patch up this gang of no hopers, we need to dump a third of the team and build around Bush, Carr, Johnson and Davis. (ie...SIGN A COUPLE LINEMAN WITH A PULSE).
AJ, Bush, and Carr .... we'd have "The big 2.3" ... Superbowl, here we come!

royce1054
12-16-2005, 09:19 PM
AJ, Bush, and Carr .... we'd have "The big 2.3" ... Superbowl, here we come!


have you not read a single passage in this thread. those 3 or any other 3 cant do anything with out protection in the passing game from the O-line and a capable TE who can pass block and run block to take the extra man out of the box then you will realize that we dont need BUSH.. I MEAN PLS come on

edo783
12-16-2005, 09:35 PM
I keep seeing "We can get top lineman in FA". If so, just exactly WHO are these guys and I don't mean just any old duffus with a pulse, but REAL SOLID top level guys who will LIKELY not be resigned by their own teams? Just because they are UFAs doesn't mean they are REALLY available. Their own teams typically sign their own FA lineman. So, if there are so many and it's so easy to get them we need to be sure about it so, EXACTLY who are they? If we are to jump out on a limb by drafting just a talent, then we nee to be very sure what we are counting on is actually there and not just some sort of wish/dream by the Bushwacker group. If we can in fact get guys, have them on board prior to the draft, then, yes we should pick Bush, but if we are thinking 3 & 4th round talent will ALL work, then that would be delusional on our part. Some might, but most won't and will be backup talent or worse.

Coach C.
12-16-2005, 10:13 PM
EDo the top FA lineman would be Lecharles Bentley and Steve Hutchinson, they are both interior lineman. There are some serviceable tackles, but none of them would be much better than wade or weigert playing the position except maybe Jeff Brackus. I would assume that these are the guys that the Bush people want us to sign. I doubt we have a chance at Hutchinson, Bentley may opt to move on, but he will likely want to go to a contender. Brackus would also want to go to a contender if he does not resign.

beerlover
12-16-2005, 10:38 PM
the Texans strayed last year from taking the BPA, traded down and drafted for need. I don't mind trading down as long they draft the BPA. if you only could build a team through the draft it would take a long, long time, thats why there are trades and free agency. when it comes to the draft you have to take the best talent available to increase your teams overall ability.

Bush is the BPA in the draft.........I don't trust the Texans to trade down and still get the BPA, no thanks just draft Bush :rolleyes:

texplayer2
12-16-2005, 11:16 PM
In basketball you only have 5 players on the court at once, in football there are 11. We are not a good enough team right now to use the 1st overall pick, if we get it, on a potential NFL superstar, and think he can turn a 1-12 team into a 12-1 team. And you say take the best talent period, so hypothetically speaking if Leinhart was the best talent in this year's draft are you saying we should draft him?

Lienert is not the best talent available in this draft, Bush is. Lienert is the best QB in this draft and will probably be a project like Carson Palmer was. The reality is before the end of the season and the Rose Bowl, Reggie Bush is the man. He will not turn us around alone, but will be one of the top contributers to a turnaround. Any lineman this year will take seasoning to make him a starter in whatever rnd you take them. The way I see it is you take Bush and other positions later(linemen,defense,etc..) or you trade top pick to take a player a few spots above our second round pick (linemen,defense,etc..) then we grab weaker skill position players toward the end of the draft? I think it would be better to take top guy and go with the plan to get linemen and defense later, along with free agents( if their will not be many good linemen in free agency then pick up some good Defense their and concentrate the rest of the draft on o-line,TE, etc..) Some Good players are are going to be out there at several positions in free agency. I always see the top guys go quick though and hopefully our guys are ready to go by then coaching and GM wise or the draft might be our only hope.

MorKnolle
12-17-2005, 12:04 AM
If you go listen to the John McClain show he has talked to 5 or so scouts he really respects and he says the Texans would be absolute fools not to take Bush. Thinks he is the reincarnation of Gayle Sayers. Yes, and there was Cedric Benson too.........

From personal experience I'd say John McClain is a fool.

texan279
12-17-2005, 12:07 AM
Lienert is not the best talent available in this draft, Bush is. Lienert is the best QB in this draft and will probably be a project like Carson Palmer was. The reality is before the end of the season and the Rose Bowl, Reggie Bush is the man. He will not turn us around alone, but will be one of the top contributers to a turnaround. Any lineman this year will take seasoning to make him a starter in whatever rnd you take them. The way I see it is you take Bush and other positions later(linemen,defense,etc..) or you trade top pick to take a player a few spots above our second round pick (linemen,defense,etc..) then we grab weaker skill position players toward the end of the draft? I think it would be better to take top guy and go with the plan to get linemen and defense later, along with free agents( if their will not be many good linemen in free agency then pick up some good Defense their and concentrate the rest of the draft on o-line,TE, etc..) Some Good players are are going to be out there at several positions in free agency. I always see the top guys go quick though and hopefully our guys are ready to go by then coaching and GM wise or the draft might be our only hope.

Read my post again, I said hypothetically speaking IF Leinhart was the best talent in the draft should we pick him IF we ended up with the 1st pick...

MorKnolle
12-17-2005, 12:13 AM
Its an analogy...obviously the two sports are different.

But youll go much further as a football team getting the most talent you can. The Texans are the most stale team in the league. We need raw talent and skill. Bush is bar none the best college football player in the country and we have to take the best player available. We are so horrible that we cannot afford to pass on undeniable talent for "value" or "need".

Face it, we are in another rebulding phase for at least 2 years... we dont need to patch up this gang of no hopers, we need to dump a third of the team and build around Bush, Carr, Johnson and Davis. (ie...SIGN A COUPLE LINEMAN WITH A PULSE).

Excellent point which is precisely why we'll trade down in the draft. We can pick up 4+ starting-quality players at positions that we actually need help in exchange for getting Bush, not to mention we'll pay all of them less total money than we'd have to pay Bush. How is dumping 1/3 of a team that is already lousy and then not filling any of those positions going to help us? There are two decent OL in the whole NFL whose contracts are expiring at the end of the year, and in all likelihood maybe one of them will not be resigned by their team and be available, and with a draft with so many great OLinemen we'd be foolish to not pick up at least two of them to build our OL around. The OL is probably the most important part of a football team other than the QB, and is the majority of the reason why we are 1-12 right now. We will be a much better team for picking up an additional 3-6 picks for trading the #1 pick away, and I think the team management realizes this and will not draft Bush unless they cannot get a decent trade for it.

MorKnolle
12-17-2005, 12:17 AM
Hey the thing about Bush being to small he is the same size or bigger than Tiki Barber and Warrick Dunn ... both have over 1000 yards this season. Davis has a tradable contract and he has injury concerns.

Davis does not have a tradable contract, it will cost us $7 million against our cap to trade or cut him.

texplayer2
12-17-2005, 12:33 AM
Read my post again, I said hypothetically speaking IF Leinhart was the best talent in the draft should we pick him IF we ended up with the 1st pick...

If everyone was sold on him being Brett Farve in the future? Yes. Dan Marino, John Elway, yes. Those types of players aren't available every year. I don't think anyone sees him that way yet, but he has the potential.

beerlover
12-17-2005, 12:51 AM
Davis does not have a tradable contract, it will cost us $7 million against our cap to trade or cut him.

we do not need to trade Davis if we draft Bush, as a matter of fact is not that a very good combination? maybe Dominack Davis does not have the size of LenDale White but he is a very good inside the tackle runner, with good hands to also catch out of the backfield. IF USC did not have LenDale White it would much easier to key of Reggie, I would expect USC to run straight at Texas alot more that some people expect. the point being we need both of them for a balanced offense, one does not preclude the other :)

texan279
12-17-2005, 12:55 AM
If everyone was sold on him being Brett Farve in the future? Yes. Dan Marino, John Elway, yes. Those types of players aren't available every year. I don't think anyone sees him that way yet, but he has the potential.

No one player that comes out of the draft is a guarantee to be a success in the NFL. Bush could be taken at the #1 pick and turn out to be another Ki-Jana Carter and Leinhart could be taken after him and be the next Joe Montana. All I am saying is that being in the position we are in right now, a 1-12 team, if we end up with the 1st pick, I just cannot see us taking Bush with the first pick. We need to trade down as much as possible, maybe into the 5-15 range and get as many picks as possible and load this team up with several solid, quality players, instead of one possible future superstar. This is the way New England has done it in the past, just loads of quality talent and depth instead of a couple of superstars. We do not have enough talent to bring in one superstar and think he can turn this team around. Look at Oakland. They brought in Lamont Jordan and Randy Moss this past offseason and sit right now at 4-9, after finishing last season at 5-11.

beerlover
12-17-2005, 02:04 AM
No one player that comes out of the draft is a guarantee to be a success in the NFL. Bush could be taken at the #1 pick and turn out to be another Ki-Jana Carter and Leinhart could be taken after him and be the next Joe Montana. All I am saying is that being in the position we are in right now, a 1-12 team, if we end up with the 1st pick, I just cannot see us taking Bush with the first pick. We need to trade down as much as possible, maybe into the 5-15 range and get as many picks as possible and load this team up with several solid, quality players, instead of one possible future superstar. This is the way New England has done it in the past, just loads of quality talent and depth instead of a couple of superstars. We do not have enough talent to bring in one superstar and think he can turn this team around. Look at Oakland. They brought in Lamont Jordan and Randy Moss this past offseason and sit right now at 4-9, after finishing last season at 5-11.

1). The Texans will still have their 2nd, 3rd plus Saints 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th picks. are you telling me if the Texans pick Reggie Bush none of those matter?

2). Does anyone here still have confidence in Charlie Casserly trading down? not to mention the prospects he will target and take.

3). A playmakaker like Reggie Bush makes everyone better.

4). If we have to tear everything down, what a way to start over.

5). The Texans where 7-9 last year, there is something going on besides the players lack of confidence.

6). If someone makes a offer that blows our minds, well then yeah trade down but it would have to be a whopper not just a biggie.

7). A bush in the hand is worth two on top of the mountain or the bottom of a valley.

8). Reggie would put fans back in the seats, not to mention winning again.

9). Carr will no longer be the franchise, Reggie is very marketable and will inspire his own shoe deal, advertisements and Texan name brand recognition.

10). I want to buy a Texans jersey with Reggie Bush name & number 5 (I checked no Texan has this number :) ).

Another Bush a Texan :texflag:

texan279
12-17-2005, 02:19 AM
1). The Texans will still have their 2nd, 3rd plus Saints 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th picks. are you telling me if the Texans pick Reggie Bush none of those matter?

2). Does anyone here still have confidence in Charlie Casserly trading down? not to mention the prospects he will target and take.

3). A playmakaker like Reggie Bush makes everyone better.

4). If we have to tear everything down, what a way to start over.

5). The Texans where 7-9 last year, there is something going on besides the players lack of confidence.

6). If someone makes a offer that blows our minds, well then yeah trade down but it would have to be a whopper not just a biggie.

7). A bush in the hand is worth two on top of the mountain or the bottom of a valley.

8). Reggie would put fans back in the seats, not to mention winning again.

9). Carr will no longer be the franchise, Reggie is very marketable and will inspire his own shoe deal, advertisements and Texan name brand recognition.

10). I want to buy a Texans jersey with Reggie Bush name & number 5 (I checked no Texan has this number :) ).

Another Bush a Texan :texflag:

1. Not saying these picks don't matter, but take a look at our drafts in the past. Besides round 1 picks, not much have come from our drafts. And say we trade down a few spots, add some more 2nd and 3rd round picks in there.

3. One player cannot make a team play better, ie Randy Moss in Oakland, Brett Favre in Green Bay.

4. I am not saying tear everything down, I am say add as much as we can to what we have.

5. Sure there is something going on. The coaching and offensive line are horrible.

8. Sure Reggie would put fans in the seats, but why does that matter to me? I want this team to win, I don't care if there are 70 or 70,000 people in the stands. And as far as Bush helping us "win again", do you really think if we had Bush right now our record would be better than 1-12?

9. Why do I care about marketing, advertising, and shoe deals? I want this team to win.

beerlover
12-17-2005, 04:35 AM
1. Not saying these picks don't matter, but take a look at our drafts in the past. Besides round 1 picks, not much have come from our drafts. And say we trade down a few spots, add some more 2nd and 3rd round picks in there.

3. One player cannot make a team play better, ie Randy Moss in Oakland, Brett Favre in Green Bay.

4. I am not saying tear everything down, I am say add as much as we can to what we have.

5. Sure there is something going on. The coaching and offensive line are horrible.

8. Sure Reggie would put fans in the seats, but why does that matter to me? I want this team to win, I don't care if there are 70 or 70,000 people in the stands. And as far as Bush helping us "win again", do you really think if we had Bush right now our record would be better than 1-12?

9. Why do I care about marketing, advertising, and shoe deals? I want this team to win.

well for the most part I was just having fun ala tongue in cheek style, but there is nothing funny with Casserlys use of all the great positioning of wasted draft picks, that the Texans economy system is down (goes with losing) lots of empty seats & consession stands, or the fact this team is MUCH BETTER THAN 1-12. you turn teams around with winning & yes Bush would pay big dividends in that department along with almost everything else. Moss or Farve are not what they use to be in there prime, if Oakland and Green Bay could draft them from day 1 and start all over again you could make the same arguement Randy and Brett. You see your getting a Superstar coming into his prime in Reggie Bush & that makes all the difference in the world, plus I really do want a Reggie Bush Texans jersey :ok:

royce1054
12-17-2005, 07:02 AM
1). The Texans will still have their 2nd, 3rd plus Saints 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th picks. are you telling me if the Texans pick Reggie Bush none of those matter?

2). Does anyone here still have confidence in Charlie Casserly trading down? not to mention the prospects he will target and take.

3). A playmakaker like Reggie Bush makes everyone better.

4). If we have to tear everything down, what a way to start over.

5). The Texans where 7-9 last year, there is something going on besides the players lack of confidence.

6). If someone makes a offer that blows our minds, well then yeah trade down but it would have to be a whopper not just a biggie.

7). A bush in the hand is worth two on top of the mountain or the bottom of a valley.

8). Reggie would put fans back in the seats, not to mention winning again.

9). Carr will no longer be the franchise, Reggie is very marketable and will inspire his own shoe deal, advertisements and Texan name brand recognition.

10). I want to buy a Texans jersey with Reggie Bush name & number 5 (I checked no Texan has this number :) ).

Another Bush a Texan :texflag:

1. Yes picking Reggie Bush does matter. It matters because its a player that wont improve our team. Ok lets say we do. 1st down run the ball with Bush 3 yard gain. 2nd down they blitz us lack of pass protection 3-13. 3rd down blitz us again maybe we get the pass off for a short gain. Doesnt this sound familiar. O wait thats what happening now. Our problem isnt in Davis, Carr, or AJ. Its at Pass blocking and TE. No team respects us enough to take the 8th man out of the box. Til we solve this problem Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers, O.J, Emmitt Smith, L Tomlinson, no one could help us because it will be the same thing over and over again. What i am noticing is that you have what i like to call "tunnel vision" and what happens when you get tunnel vision playing this game? You should be saying how come everyone isnt saying lets trade down and draft a pass blocking O-Lineman or an all around TE or even a CB to be opposite Drob instead of implying something that we dont need. Stop listening to what you hear on TV and radio because they are getting your hopes up. REEVES not casserly will make the selection

2. See the last part of 1. casserly wont have anything to do with the draft IF he comes back

3. No a playmaker doesn't make you better if hes no better than what you have. He doesnt like to run up the middle. he plays in the PAC 10 hes never taken a hit like a Dwgiht Freeney would lay on him or a Henderson DT Jaguars. I mean come on. Plus anyways DD gets hit in the backfield all the time and still get postive yards hes in the top 12-14 RB every year. makes no sense whatsoever.

4. Reeves will get rid of players he doesnt want anyways. We wont start over as much as i think you were implying.

5. Well minus 1 possible tank, 1 horrible d stand and 2 referee mess ups we have 4 wins. Possible 7-9 season..
:homer:
I mean come on

6. And Dan Reeves is the man to do it. He is known for making moves and not only just making htem but good ones. Also developing the players and finding good talent.

7. The most stupid question since i heard fry on futurama say "do i smell purple?"

8. The answer to this is NO. We will be in the exact same spot as this season with half the attendance :homer:

9. I dont know why you dont think Carr wont be back and if he wasnt going to be coming back we would select Linehart.. Another question that is "tunnel vision" and makes no sense.

10. TUNNEL VISION

Tayton
12-17-2005, 08:54 AM
There are no guarantees about Reggie Bush. There are no guarantees about the lineman we may drop down to draft or that he would be better than one that we could pick up with the 33rd pick. If we could swing a San Diego/Manning type deal and pick a couple of firsts and drop down just a couple of spots, it might be worth it. Every one agrees that we need line help but there are very few players that will make a difference to a ball club like Bush. Last year we dropped down to fill a need and basically did nothing to improve the team. Bush is probably the best Running Back and Wide Receiver in this years draft. That doesn't happen very often. I say draft Bush and address the line and CB with FA and pick 33. All that being said, we will probably draft 2nd.

HomeBred_Texan
12-17-2005, 10:44 AM
Ahhh, the great debate. This will be debated for a long time. I see people comparing Oakland, GB, and other teams in here. And none of us know what will happen. I have never understood the draft with out picks and never will. Reggie Bush is a big time playmaker now and will be in the pros. He is our once in a lifetime pick without giving up the farm to get him. This draft is so deep in O-Lineman, we can pick them for 2 days and fix our problem. But one thing is clear for sure...

No matter what happens on draft day, everyone will NOT be happy..

I for one, want Reggie Bush here if possible...

Didn't the great Mike Ditka give up a whole draft for a RB at New Orleans?
Didn't Oakland take a great O-Lineman with 2nd overall pick?
Didn't NY give up a next year's 1 pick to trade up 2 spots?

My point is, 1 great O-Lineman will not help us win, just ask Oakland. But 1 Reggie Bush type player will, ask TB.... Trading down just doesnt make any sense to me when we ALL know there are no guarantees in the draft. Who in here can tell me that if we traded down and got D'Brick that on the first play from scrimmage in a pre-season game he wont go down with a torn ligament and be out for the season? Who can tell me 1 person in the draft is a sure fire winner? Let's take our chances, cut T Hollings, draft Bush, 2nd and 3rd picks pick up some O-Line help and go from there. Houston deserves to see a fine runner in action all the time, not when they come here to visit. We have to get the caliber of players that can put points on the board to beat Indy. You are not going to stop em so you have to outscore em.....

beerlover
12-17-2005, 10:49 AM
10. TUNNEL VISION

yes and I'm going to wear my #5 Reggie Bush Texans jersey to the house

texplayer2
12-17-2005, 01:10 PM
1. Yes picking Reggie Bush does matter. It matters because its a player that wont improve our team. Ok lets say we do. 1st down run the ball with Bush 3 yard gain. 2nd down they blitz us lack of pass protection 3-13. 3rd down blitz us again maybe we get the pass off for a short gain. Doesnt this sound familiar.

Have you seen the way USC uses Bush it is not just three yards and a cloud of dust. The third down dink pass you are talking about is a very good dump it to Bush in the secondary and watch him run pass. They used it on the third down in the Notre Dame game for about nine yards before the 60 yard 4th down pass. You would be improving your speed and short passing games. Making blitzing less effective.

Vinny
12-17-2005, 01:24 PM
yes and I'm going to wear my #5 Reggie Bush Texans jersey to the houseI wouldn't spend any cash on that....if he comes he won't wear #5.

Daonly
12-17-2005, 01:52 PM
The people who don't won't Reggie Bush are the ones who don't follow College Football. They say trade down and grab more picks? Who??? WHO??? to grab? a few more SCRUBS to go along with the SCRUBS we already have??? we need elite players on this team and there are only TWO! players in this draft worth taking that's Reggie Bush and AJ Hawk, if you can't put those two guys in your sentence when you speak about the draft you don't know what you're talking about. If the Texans don't get Reggie Bush or AJ Hawk with a GANG LOAD of picks this team will forever be in the Cellar!

texan279
12-17-2005, 01:53 PM
Don't know if it's old news but ESPN just had a breaking news piece that Bush will declare for the draft this year and skip his senior season.

texan279
12-17-2005, 01:56 PM
The people who don't won't Reggie Bush are the ones who don't follow College Football. They say trade down and grab more picks? Who??? WHO??? to grab? a few more SCRUBS to go along with the SCRUBS we already have??? we need elite players on this team and there are only TWO! players in this draft worth taking that's Reggie Bush and AJ Hawk, if you can't put those two guys in your sentence when you speak about the draft you don't know what you're talking about. If the Texans don't get Reggie Bush or AJ Hawk with a GANG LOAD of picks this team will forever be in the Cellar!

So what you're saying is every team except the ones with the top 2 picks should just stay home and not even show up to the draft? Some here speak as if Bush is Superman. People talk about how he can line up in the slot, what good is that going to do when Carr only has time to check one option? How will he handle hits in the backfield in the NFL? Will he be able to turn negative yards into positive like DD?

Daonly
12-17-2005, 02:00 PM
yeah you took the words right out of my mouth; Bush,and Hawk are the only ones that are a "LOCK" to be great at the next level barring injury. As of pure Skills and Heart there at a Elite Status. So with the Texans having at least a top 5 pick this year we should at least grab either Bush or Hawk (with picks to move down if we grab him.)

texan279
12-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Ahhh, the great debate. This will be debated for a long time. I see people comparing Oakland, GB, and other teams in here. And none of us know what will happen. I have never understood the draft with out picks and never will. Reggie Bush is a big time playmaker now and will be in the pros. He is our once in a lifetime pick without giving up the farm to get him. This draft is so deep in O-Lineman, we can pick them for 2 days and fix our problem. But one thing is clear for sure...

No matter what happens on draft day, everyone will NOT be happy..

I for one, want Reggie Bush here if possible...

Didn't the great Mike Ditka give up a whole draft for a RB at New Orleans?
Didn't Oakland take a great O-Lineman with 2nd overall pick?
Didn't NY give up a next year's 1 pick to trade up 2 spots?

My point is, 1 great O-Lineman will not help us win, just ask Oakland. But 1 Reggie Bush type player will, ask TB.... Trading down just doesnt make any sense to me when we ALL know there are no guarantees in the draft. Who in here can tell me that if we traded down and got D'Brick that on the first play from scrimmage in a pre-season game he wont go down with a torn ligament and be out for the season? Who can tell me 1 person in the draft is a sure fire winner? Let's take our chances, cut T Hollings, draft Bush, 2nd and 3rd picks pick up some O-Line help and go from there. Houston deserves to see a fine runner in action all the time, not when they come here to visit. We have to get the caliber of players that can put points on the board to beat Indy. You are not going to stop em so you have to outscore em.....

You say trading down and taking D'Brick with our first pick could be risky because there is no guarantee, and there is no one player in the draft that is sure fire, then you turn around and say "let's take our chances" and cut Hollings and draft Bush? And as far Cadillac Williams and Tampa Bay, Williams has 924 yards, 5 rushing TD's, 4.1 YPC average, 67 yards recieving and no receiving TD's this season compared to DD's 976 yards, 2 rushing TD's, 4.2 YPC average, 337 yards receiving, and 4 receiving TD's. As far as asking Oakland about how their one offensive lineman helped them in the draft, ask them how trading for their #1 WR helped them out also, it didn't, so Oakland added a "great" offensive lineman through the draft, Randy Moss and LaMont Jordan through trade/free agency and they are still not improved, and I still don't think by adding Bush it would make us the superteam some think.

Daonly
12-17-2005, 02:17 PM
Moss been hurt and bang up.. plus the offense don't go through Moss it's the running game first. Moss don't get half the balls thrown to him as he did in Minnesota. We all know Bush is the next best thing to happen to the (NFL) in a long time, and for us to have a solid chance to grab him makes fans from other teams PISSED OFF!Just be glad that we are in this position.

texan279
12-17-2005, 02:22 PM
Moss been hurt and bang up.. plus the offense don't go through Moss it's the running game first. Moss don't get half the balls thrown to him as he did in Minnesota. We all know Bush is the next best thing to happen to the (NFL) in a long time, and for us to have a solid chance to grab him makes fans from other teams PISSED OFF!Just be glad that we are in this position.

And Derrick Johnson was the next Lawrence Taylor and this place erupted when we passed on him, and he has all of 76 tackles and 2 sacks compared to Greenwood's 97 tackles and 2 sacks...

royce1054
12-17-2005, 04:11 PM
Have you seen the way USC uses Bush it is not just three yards and a cloud of dust. The third down dink pass you are talking about is a very good dump it to Bush in the secondary and watch him run pass. They used it on the third down in the Notre Dame game for about nine yards before the 60 yard 4th down pass. You would be improving your speed and short passing games. Making blitzing less effective.


Wow you guys are so totally locked in on what you want the Texans to have you are not looking at the big picture. First of if our O-line doesnt upgrade and Bush is the backfield instead of Davis we will be saying the same thing that we are saying this year except about Bush. USC has an O-line and TE that we dont have. Plus its the Pac 10 football minus Notre Dame really doesnt say too much against an NFL D-line. 1st of what makes u think with our pass blocking that we can throw a 60 yard TD pass. MAKES NO SENSE. First of knowone will stop blitzing up til we upgrade our O-line and get a TE not get BUSH

royce1054
12-17-2005, 04:14 PM
yes and I'm going to wear my #5 Reggie Bush Texans jersey to the house


Still you are caught up in this and you are going to be heart broken when the professionals that pick dont take him. You make no sense... you are listening to someone that is not a Dan Reeves or a high ranking member of the Texans front office. If one of them comes out and says we will take him i will say ok and prepare for another 3-13 season

royce1054
12-17-2005, 04:22 PM
The people who don't won't Reggie Bush are the ones who don't follow College Football. They say trade down and grab more picks? Who??? WHO??? to grab? a few more SCRUBS to go along with the SCRUBS we already have??? we need elite players on this team and there are only TWO! players in this draft worth taking that's Reggie Bush and AJ Hawk, if you can't put those two guys in your sentence when you speak about the draft you don't know what you're talking about. If the Texans don't get Reggie Bush or AJ Hawk with a GANG LOAD of picks this team will forever be in the Cellar!


well if you know college football then stick to it because you dont know the NFL. We can trade down take Winston, or if we have questions on Wong take a A.J. Hawk or find a capable replacement in Buchannon in Jimmy WIlliams CB va Tech. Any one of those helps our team better than Bush. Then we take the picks we get trade back up in the 1st round get another top talent. Appearently you still thinking this is a Casserly draft who take Bush then not make a deal for some horrible talent. This is a Dan Reeves draft who will get rid of the players he doesnt want. Bring in his own coach. Draft the players he wants ala Brian Finneran and Ed MacCaffney. I mean come on are you blind

beerlover
12-17-2005, 04:30 PM
And Derrick Johnson was the next Lawrence Taylor and this place erupted when we passed on him, and he has all of 76 tackles and 2 sacks compared to Greenwood's 97 tackles and 2 sacks...

Derrick Johnson plays LOLB in a 4-3, LT was a weakside linebacker in a 3-4 more like DeMarcus Ware. Greenwood has more tackles because he is basicly a MLB or ILB if you like similar to Sharper in the 3-4 where they are supposed to get the largest chunk of stats, still at 97 he is not that far ahead of a rookie playing in a 4-3 with 91.

Not sure what this analogy has to do with Bush? are you saying Bush is too hyped by fans, media, players & coaches? heck he was jobbed last year in the heisman, after all he was the teams MVP:rolleyes:

beerlover
12-17-2005, 04:35 PM
Still you are caught up in this and you are going to be heart broken when the professionals that pick dont take him. You make no sense... you are listening to someone that is not a Dan Reeves or a high ranking member of the Texans front office. If one of them comes out and says we will take him i will say ok and prepare for another 3-13 season

no:crying: but I'll save money not purchasing a Texans jersey:twocents:

texan279
12-17-2005, 04:39 PM
Derrick Johnson plays LOLB in a 4-3, LT was a weakside linebacker in a 3-4 more like DeMarcus Ware. Greenwood has more tackles because he is basicly a MLB or ILB if you like similar to Sharper in the 3-4 where they are supposed to get the largest chunk of stats, still at 97 he is not that far ahead of a rookie playing in a 4-3 with 91.

Not sure what this analogy has to do with Bush? are you saying Bush is too hyped by fans, media, players & coaches? heck he was jobbed last year in the heisman, after all he was the teams MVP:rolleyes:

The relevance between Bush and DJ is this board had DJ fever during the offseason before the last draft and when we passed on him and traded down this board literally exploded, which I am sure would happen again if we do not draft Bush with the chance to do so. The reason I made the comparison between DJ and LT is that some scouts and some posters here were saying that DJ was the second coming of LT before the last draft. And the reason I compared Greenwood to DJ is because DJ would have played ILB here if we had drafted him. Shante Orr and DaShon Polk have more sacks this season in limited playing time than DJ does...And DJ has 76 tackles, not 91...

beerlover
12-17-2005, 05:19 PM
And DJ has 76 tackles, not 91...

if your comparing players at least compare apples to apples. Morlan Greenwood has 71 tackles & 26 assited for a total of 97. Derrick Johnson has 70 tackles & 21 assited for a total of 91.

you stand corrected :read:

and for the record I was never on the DJ bandwagon, until he was available. the #1 player on my draft board was DeMarcus Ware, who just so happens to have a similar style to LT. funny how what goes around comes around :cool:

texan279
12-17-2005, 05:44 PM
if your comparing players at least compare apples to apples. Morlan Greenwood has 71 tackles & 26 assited for a total of 97. Derrick Johnson has 70 tackles & 21 assited for a total of 91.

you stand corrected :read:

and for the record I was never on the DJ bandwagon, until he was available. the #1 player on my draft board was DeMarcus Ware, who just so happens to have a similar style to LT. funny how what goes around comes around :cool:

I am just going off what nfl.com says, which is DJ has 61 tackles and 15 assists, which is 76, and Greenwood has 71 tackles and 26 assists totaling 97 tackles and I double checked it through SI.com...:BananaWav

beerlover
12-17-2005, 06:23 PM
I am just going off what nfl.com says, which is DJ has 61 tackles and 15 assists, which is 76, and Greenwood has 71 tackles and 26 assists totaling 97 tackles and I double checked it through SI.com...:BananaWav

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/misc/dstats_thru13.pdf :)

texan279
12-17-2005, 07:08 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/misc/dstats_thru13.pdf :)

I can't get the page to open, I'll take a look when I get to work in a little while.

tulexan
12-17-2005, 08:00 PM
Davis does not have a tradable contract, it will cost us $7 million against our cap to trade or cut him.


I'm sorry but I am still confused on how we would have a $7 million hit against the cap. Domanick Davis signed a 4 year contract worth $22 million with $8 million in guaranteed money. We have played 1 season so $2 million has been amortized off of the contract which leaves $6 million left to be amortized throughout the rest of his 4 year contract.

Question 1.9b
If that is the case, why are so many players cut AFTER June 1?

Answer: After June 1, the team can stretch their salary cap liability over the next 2 seasons. Let's look at our example above, where a player signs a big contract for 4 years, including a $1 million signing bonus.

If the player is cut after the first year of the contract, the remaining $750,000 of the "un-amoratized" signing bonus hits the cap immediately (accelerates). However, if he is cut after June 1, the team can spread that money over Year 2 and 3 of the contract instead of taking the full brunt of the cap hit in Year 2.

Doing this will save $500,000 against the cap hit for Year 2.

Clearly, this practice is a nice way of freeing up cap space in a given year. Note, however, that the money still has to be repaid and the remaining $500,000 will hit the cap in Year 3. In essence, many NFL teams have mortgaged their future by overusing this practice, whereby they continue to pay against the cap for players who have not been on the roster for over a year.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

Our cap hit on a trade or a cut would be $3 million if done correctly. But again I am not saying that we should get rid of him, I like Davis I just think that a 1-2 punch of Davis and Bush would be one of the best in the league and that we can address the offensive line through free agency and the rest of the draft.

Hottoddie
12-17-2005, 09:44 PM
I'm on the trade down for picks band wagon.

So, in regards to the debate over Bush, I've got 2 words for you.

Barry Sanders!!!

In my opinion, Sanders is one of the best, most electrifying, RB's in the history of the game. But, even he couldn't carry the Lions to the Super Bowl. He played for 10 years from 1989-1998 & yet, the Lions finished above .500 in only 6 of those years. They made the playoffs in only 5 of those years & had a playoff record of just 1-5. Even in Barry's best year, when he ran for 2,053 yards, the team went 9-7 & lost in the first round of the playoffs.

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=24108

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=23787

1989 (7-9) .438 3rd NFC Central (1,470 yards)
1990 (6-10) .375 3rd NFC Central (1,304 yards)
1991 (12-4) .750 1st NFC Central (1,548 yards)
1992 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,352 yards)
1993 (10-6) .625 1st NFC Central (1,115 yards in 11 games)
1994 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (1,883 yards)
1995 (10-6) .625 2nd NFC Central (1,500 yards)
1996 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,553 yards)
1997 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (2,053 yards) (only 5 RB's in the history of the game have rushed for more than 2,000 yards in a season)
1998 (5-11) .313 4th NFC Central (1,491 yards)

Imagine what he could've done behind the line that Emmitt ran behind. I'm sorry for the draft Bush fans, but there's no way that one player can carry a team in the NFL. Unless, of course, his name is Earl Campbell.:drool: We've got to rebuild the OL & this is a great year for doing it.

Daonly
12-17-2005, 09:56 PM
I'm on the trade down for picks band wagon.

So, in regards to the debate over Bush, I've got 2 words for you.

Barry Sanders!!!

In my opinion, Sanders is one of the best, most electrifying, RB's in the history of the game. But, even he couldn't carry the Lions to the Super Bowl. He played for 10 years from 1989-1998 & yet, the Lions finished above .500 in only 6 of those years. They made the playoffs in only 5 of those years & had a playoff record of just 1-5. Even in Barry's best year, when he ran for 2,053 yards, the team went 9-7 & lost in the first round of the playoffs.

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=24108

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=23787

1989 (7-9) .438 3rd NFC Central (1,470 yards)
1990 (6-10) .375 3rd NFC Central (1,304 yards)
1991 (12-4) .750 1st NFC Central (1,548 yards)
1992 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,352 yards)
1993 (10-6) .625 1st NFC Central (1,115 yards in 11 games)
1994 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (1,883 yards)
1995 (10-6) .625 2nd NFC Central (1,500 yards)
1996 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,553 yards)
1997 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (2,053 yards) (only 5 RB's in the history of the game have rushed for more than 2,000 yards in a season)
1998 (5-11) .313 4th NFC Central (1,491 yards)

Imagine what he could've done behind the line that Emmitt ran behind. I'm sorry for the draft Bush fans, but there's no way that one player can carry a team in the NFL. Unless, of course, his name is Earl Campbell.:drool: We've got to rebuild the OL & this is a great year for doing it.

So what you want to do? past on one of the greatest college runnning back in years? Then build a nice solid online then maybe wait 10 years for the next greatest back in college football history to come around again, then maybe then maybe will have that 1st overall pick again??? Wow by that time our OL would be depleted once again and the circle continues!

royce1054
12-17-2005, 10:10 PM
So what you want to do? past on one of the greatest college runnning back in years? Then build a nice solid online then maybe wait 10 years for the next greatest back in college football history to come around again, then maybe then maybe will have that 1st overall pick again??? Wow by that time our OL would be depleted once again and the circle continues!

absolultely. If we draft Bush we dont know how he will preform. His O-line in USC was good. THey have better weapons then we do. Hell USC could beat Houston right now. THey would blitz us death (as usual). Trust me we get a better pass blocking team, better play calling, and a good pass catching/blocking TE. Then all of the sudden now the SS has to leave the box. One less person to bring DD down. Now i will say if we get some guys in Free agency BEFORE the draft. I would be willing to change my tune. Until then i dont see any other scenario where we would take Bush. If we cut Carr we will go Leinhart. Those are the only scenarios i see. Plus anyways Leinhart has bad knees and with our O-line he wont last as long as Carr did. So i dont see us releasing Carr unless they plan to pick up Griese, Simms, Garcia one of those type players. Thats about it guys and girls. So unless we pick up FA OL in the 1st round expect us to trade down. I dont see DD getting released. He would cost too much. Carr if he doesnt come back a FA would have to come in. So for the Bush fans this is what you have to hope for. Plus anyways you can pick up good RB's in the 3rd or 4th round. Remember the BRONCOS

tulexan
12-17-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm on the trade down for picks band wagon.

So, in regards to the debate over Bush, I've got 2 words for you.

Barry Sanders!!!

In my opinion, Sanders is one of the best, most electrifying, RB's in the history of the game. But, even he couldn't carry the Lions to the Super Bowl. He played for 10 years from 1989-1998 & yet, the Lions finished above .500 in only 6 of those years. They made the playoffs in only 5 of those years & had a playoff record of just 1-5. Even in Barry's best year, when he ran for 2,053 yards, the team went 9-7 & lost in the first round of the playoffs.

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=24108

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?cont_id=23787

1989 (7-9) .438 3rd NFC Central (1,470 yards)
1990 (6-10) .375 3rd NFC Central (1,304 yards)
1991 (12-4) .750 1st NFC Central (1,548 yards)
1992 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,352 yards)
1993 (10-6) .625 1st NFC Central (1,115 yards in 11 games)
1994 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (1,883 yards)
1995 (10-6) .625 2nd NFC Central (1,500 yards)
1996 (5-11) .313 5th NFC Central (1,553 yards)
1997 (9-7) .563 3rd NFC Central (2,053 yards) (only 5 RB's in the history of the game have rushed for more than 2,000 yards in a season)
1998 (5-11) .313 4th NFC Central (1,491 yards)

Imagine what he could've done behind the line that Emmitt ran behind. I'm sorry for the draft Bush fans, but there's no way that one player can carry a team in the NFL. Unless, of course, his name is Earl Campbell.:drool: We've got to rebuild the OL & this is a great year for doing it.

So basically what you are saying is that no team would want Barry Sanders because his team was bad. Talent is talent, and a player who is even in the same conversation as Barry Sanders shouldn't be ignored because the Lions weren't a great team when he was there. It is not Barry's fault that the Lions management could not provide enough talent around Barry Sanders to make them a top team in the league.

royce1054
12-17-2005, 10:16 PM
So basically what you are saying is that no team would want Barry Sanders because his team was bad. Talent is talent, and a player who is even in the same conversation as Barry Sanders shouldn't be ignored because the Lions weren't a great team when he was there. It is not Barry's fault that the Lions management could not provide enough talent around Barry Sanders to make them a top team in the league.


Dont you see the same thing happening here with our O-line as of right now

tulexan
12-17-2005, 10:28 PM
No, because I think McNair is a better owner than the Ford family. If Reggie is anywhere near the talent that Barry Sanders is, then there is no question that you take him regardless of your running back situation.

NederlandTexan
12-17-2005, 10:54 PM
Most mock draft have four OT's going in the first round. If Houston drafted Bush, there is still going to be a talented player at that position for us to draft in the second. However, if we trade down a couple of spots or not, and make our first pick Ferguson, what do we do with second round pick? Another tackle, no, and guards don't typically go this high. We could also package our 2nd and first 3rd round pick, and trade into the first round at about 19 or 20. The debate will continue and there is logic for both sides, but I couldn't pass on Reggie Bush.

Hottoddie
12-17-2005, 11:05 PM
So basically what you are saying is that no team would want Barry Sanders because his team was bad. Talent is talent, and a player who is even in the same conversation as Barry Sanders shouldn't be ignored because the Lions weren't a great team when he was there. It is not Barry's fault that the Lions management could not provide enough talent around Barry Sanders to make them a top team in the league.


No where in my post did I say that "no team would want Barry Sanders". You're letting your love for Bush cloud the issue. By the way, Bush isn't even in Sander's league, yet. He hasn't played a single down with the elite of the elite in the NFL. All Bush is right now, is media hype & wishful thinking.

The point of the post was to show that even one of the greatest RB's in the history of the NFL couldn't carry a team that didn't have a strong foundation. A strong foundation begins on the OL/DL. If you'll take your blinders off & take a look around, our OL is pathetic.

A great OL can make an average RB & QB look like All-Pro's. DD is a more than adequate RB for us & we also have arguably one of the best WR's in the game today in AJ, along with a QB that, when given a little time, can get the ball to him in a hurry.

This year's draft is deep in quality offensive linemen, but to get one of the can't miss prospects, you have to draft him in the first round. By the way, D'Brick is considered to be one of the rare LT's that come along once every few years. Since linemen generally play for 10-15 years & RB's generally last 5-10 years, why wouldn't I go for the most bang for my buck?

And if that's not enough for you, while DD doesn't have break away speed, he does bust quite a few 10-20 yard runs. Imagine what he could do with a good OL & an improved passing game to keep the safeties honest.

tulexan
12-17-2005, 11:19 PM
The only can't miss prospect in the draft is Reggie Bush. There are several good linemen, but none of them are can't miss prospects. Ferguson and Winston are good, but neither are as good as Robert Gallery, and Robert Gallery isn't as good as the can't miss talents of Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden.

And again, I think that some of the issues about the line are a little misleading. You are right, our offensive line is atrocious. One of the worst in the league. But that is for passing. Run blocking and pass blocking is very different. Run blocking we actually aren't that bad. Pass blocking of course is a different story. To make an example of this, you will notice that when David Carr goes to a 3-step drop our OL actually doesn't look that bad. We don't have a lot of pressure on him and he doesn't get sacked a lot. But once we go to a 5 and 7 step drop, we have the swiss cheese line and we look like a laughing stock of a team. Our line can block, but only for about 2 seconds. Fortunately for us we have a running back who can get to the line in fewer than 3 seconds, because if we didn't he wouldn't have nearly as good of stats.

royce1054
12-18-2005, 12:35 AM
The only can't miss prospect in the draft is Reggie Bush. There are several good linemen, but none of them are can't miss prospects. Ferguson and Winston are good, but neither are as good as Robert Gallery, and Robert Gallery isn't as good as the can't miss talents of Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden.

And again, I think that some of the issues about the line are a little misleading. You are right, our offensive line is atrocious. One of the worst in the league. But that is for passing. Run blocking and pass blocking is very different. Run blocking we actually aren't that bad. Pass blocking of course is a different story. To make an example of this, you will notice that when David Carr goes to a 3-step drop our OL actually doesn't look that bad. We don't have a lot of pressure on him and he doesn't get sacked a lot. But once we go to a 5 and 7 step drop, we have the swiss cheese line and we look like a laughing stock of a team. Our line can block, but only for about 2 seconds. Fortunately for us we have a running back who can get to the line in fewer than 3 seconds, because if we didn't he wouldn't have nearly as good of stats.

First of all there is NO SUCH THING AS A CANT MISS. Like i said our pass blocking is bad. And the info i gave is not off. In a 3 step drop you really cant do much but hope a WR can break one or get 3-5 yards passes. So dont even try that. The fact is we need O-line to block in the passing game that way the running game will open up more than it is. I think DD is doing great knowing that our passing game is non-existant. You cant run the ball when there are 8 men in the box. And if u say thats not true you clearly have no clue on what you are talking about. Like i said before the ONLY WAY we can take bush is to sign some better pass blocking OL. Then we can spend $50 mil on a rb who will split time with a RB who makes alot himself. Remember the Henry deal last year... i think Buffalo got a what a 3rd round pick. DD is alittle better than Henry so we might be able to get a 2nd and definitely a 3rd if Reeves decides that. Still Bush wont solve our passing game problems. He would do the same things DD would do out of the backfield. Until this guy takes some hits from a NFL DL or LB pls DONT SAY HES A CANT MISS.... Lets see if he can take a real hit not a pac 10 hit. So back to the real subject. We sign an 1 maybe 2 OL in FA i say go for Bush.... unless we do that BEFORE the draft i dont see any possibility of us grabbing Bush because of our current situation it makes no sense. Now if we dont pick up Carr's 8mil dont expect us to take Leinhart because he wouldnt finish the season with this O-line. Basically as of now this is a no brainer Trade down... it is left to be seen if i change to saying draft Bush but our GM, Coach and Owner are gonna have to go out and spend money to get it. Dont worry about the TE we will get that in the 2nd or 3rd round. As for a CB to play opposite D ROB... if we dont sign any O-lineman we could go CB in 1st after trading down then trade back up for O-line and the end of the 1st round. But as of now its slim-none chance we take Bush. You want Bush start lobbying for us to sign some OL in FA

texplayer2
12-18-2005, 01:28 AM
He would do the same things DD would do out of the backfield. Until this guy takes some hits from a NFL DL or LB pls DONT SAY HES A CANT MISS.... Lets see if he can take a real hit not a pac 10 hit. So back to the real subject. But as of now its slim-none chance we take Bush. You want Bush start lobbying for us to sign some OL in FA

What is a Pac-10 hit? You mean they hit people differently on the west coast? Man I thought physics determined the force of a hit.(size,distance,speed)? Are you saying someone is going to hit him differently? I think you are not looking at this guy for his talent. You are judging him off his affiliation with USC or the Pac-10? Sounds like a college grudge rather than a analytical look for talent for our team. I could care less which college team he is playing for I want the Texans to get the best Talent, not just get guys from Texas or from some region everyone around here is familar with. The man has taken hits from Hawaii to Notre Dame. He played Auburn,Va. Tech, and mighty Oklahoma last year. The Defense of USC the last two years was lights out and many of them are DLs or LBs in the NFL. Who do you think he practiced with? This thinking the man has never been hit is funny to me. Earlier in the year everyone is saying that he doesn't get the carries, then it's he doesn't get the touches near the goal line, and now its he can't take the hits? He got the carries as the year progress even with all the talent on that team. The two touch downs against UCLA were not to far off the goal line, Highlight reel herdals. And he definately can take the hits. We do need help on the line, but the talent level at that position is probably more even than the skill positions in this draft. Bush,o-line,defense or O-line,defense, Skill Guys. Which side of the pendulum looks better?

royce1054
12-18-2005, 01:42 AM
What is a Pac-10 hit? You mean they hit people differently on the west coast? Man I thought physics determined the force of a hit.(size,distance,speed)? Are you saying someone is going to hit him differently? I think you are not looking at this guy for his talent. You are judging him off his affiliation with USC or the Pac-10? Sounds like a college grudge rather than a analytical look for talent for our team. I could care less which college team he is playing for I want the Texans to get the best Talent, not just get guys from Texas or from some region everyone around here is familar with. The man has taken hits from Hawaii to Notre Dame. He played Auburn,Va. Tech, and mighty Oklahoma last year. The Defense of USC the last two years was lights out and many of them are DLs or LBs in the NFL. Who do you think he practiced with? This thinking the man has never been hit is funny to me. Earlier in the year everyone is saying that he doesn't get the carries, then it's he doesn't get the touches near the goal line, and now its he can't take the hits? He got the carries as the year progress even with all the talent on that team. The two touch downs against UCLA were not to far off the goal line, Highlight reel herdals. And he definately can take the hits. We do need help on the line, but the talent level at that position is probably more even than the skill positions in this draft. Bush,o-line,defense or O-line,defense, Skill Guys. Which side of the pendulum looks better?


Exactly the players in the Big 12, SEC, ect are bigger, better and faster players then the Pac 10. Yes but they did have an O-line to block for him which he wont have here. If he played in one of the other confrences with better overall talent then he would get more credit from me. Still i have to say its not funny in the strength of the NFL players in what 10X stronger than pac 10. about 2-5X in the other major confrences. Personally i think this whole topic about drafting Bush is funny right now. If we draft him for the 1000th time. We will be in the same exact spot next year as we are this year if we dont improve our Pass blocking. Screw the college leagues who cares. Still drafting a player that wont help us but will do the exact same of what we do have. Look i dont understand how you guys can be so lost right now. Carr will be on his @ss 60-70 times again next year we will have another 4-12 season and then what... what then... Now like i have previously posted... if we SIGN FA OL BEFORE the draft i say go Bush. If we dont and draft bush i will be here next year saying the exact same thing i said this year. We need a pass-blocking O-line. Now if we pick up a TE that would help DD out alot. YOU CANT RUN THE BALL WITH 8 MEN IN THE BOX.. no matter who the RB is. I dont care if its Jim Brown.. the players today would stop him. Until we solve the problems we do have this conversation is pointless... i mean are you :homer: or have done :brickwall too much or something.... stop :tv: (watching and listening to the news) and watch a game pls. As far as i can see now you are :confused:

tulexan
12-18-2005, 02:35 AM
This year's draft is deep in quality offensive linemen, but to get one of the can't miss prospects, you have to draft him in the first round. By the way, D'Brick is considered to be one of the rare LT's that come along once every few years. Since linemen generally play for 10-15 years & RB's generally last 5-10 years, why wouldn't I go for the most bang for my buck?

His words not mine

tulexan
12-18-2005, 03:02 AM
USC has some of the best prospects in the nation. How do you think they got to be #1? By having a bunch of scrubs? I have heard from people that Reggie Bush makes all of the All-American players on the USC defense look foolish during practice including some top pro prospects like Darnell Bing. Reggie Bush didn't seem to have a problem against Oklahoma last year (who shut out Texas). He had over 100 yards on only 8 touches. Cedric Benson (a pro) had about 120 against Oklahoma, but it took him 26 touches to do so. Against VTech last year (good defensive team in the ACC) he had 3 touchdowns and 127 yards receiving. Against Arkansas (an SEC team) he had over 190 yards and 2 touchdowns on 11 touches. Against Notre Dame (a BCS team) he had over 190 yards and 3 touchdowns on 19 touches.

How come USC, who has players who are 2-5X weaker than players of bigger conferences like the Big 12 destroyed an undefeated Oklahoma last year in the Orange Bowl? Wouldn't you think that the substantially weaker Trojans would have been annihilated by the Sooners?

UGA
12-18-2005, 08:49 AM
So if we can trade down and get an advantage off of this for this year and next year thats just 2+2. Not only could we trade down to the Jets or SF but then there is a possibility that we could trade down again.

Better yet why dont we trade completely out of this draft and wait for next year? Get real.

beerlover
12-18-2005, 08:56 AM
the reason why the NFL is so great is because of College Football. it seems each year more & more quality players come thru the pikes which amounts to nothing more that a farm system for the NFL. last year there was more depth into the 4th round than I can ever recall even though it was weaker in the 1st rd it made up for it in the latter rounds (which is a huge factor in my personel displeasure that the Texans traded away a 2 & 3). anyway as far as football programs and conferences they are cyclical in nature & quality football is played throughout the nation, some years certain programs can maintain a higher level than others, but they all come to an end. I see Oklahoma football on the rise again while USC will be in decline as head coaches move their systems in search of more opportunity. the point being is its all good, if you draft you must realize this and use your picks accordingly. this years flavour is Bush next years may be Peterson those who draft them should be well on the road to winning regardless what school or conference they come from :twocents:

UGA
12-18-2005, 08:58 AM
Excellent point which is precisely why we'll trade down in the draft. We can pick up 4+ starting-quality players at positions that we actually need help in exchange for getting Bush, not to mention we'll pay all of them less total money than we'd have to pay Bush.

We can trade down and get a ton of picks, and a ton of second tier players.

You take the best player available with the first pick. And when there is a clear cut top talent in the 1 hole, you dont create ways to avoid drafting him. You get in more trouble trying to get cute with picks then just taking the no brainers.

HomeBred_Texan
12-18-2005, 11:01 AM
We can trade down and get a ton of picks, and a ton of second tier players.

You take the best player available with the first pick. And when there is a clear cut top talent in the 1 hole, you dont create ways to avoid drafting him. You get in more trouble trying to get cute with picks then just taking the no brainers.
I agree with you. I think what some are saying is why don't we trade down, get O-Linemen this year so we can have the number 1 pick again next year. 1 )-Lineman is not going to make a difference, ask Oakland and New Orleans, both of whom took an O-Lineman with there first pick last year...

Draft Reggie or don't draft at all....

MorKnolle
12-18-2005, 11:36 AM
I agree with you. I think what some are saying is why don't we trade down, get O-Linemen this year so we can have the number 1 pick again next year. 1 )-Lineman is not going to make a difference, ask Oakland and New Orleans, both of whom took an O-Lineman with there first pick last year...

Draft Reggie or don't draft at all....

This is such an ignorant post, "draft Reggie or don't draft at all"?? Linemen are the most important part of the team next to the QB, and OLine is the #1 weakness on this team by a long shot, RB is probably our most solid position. Let's ask the Rams how they liked taking Orlando Pace with their #1 pick several years ago and how well he has done and improved their offense or let's ask the Bengals how they liked taking KiJana Carter with their #1 several years ago. You have to build a solid foundation for your offense to work, bringing in Bush is a slight upgrade at best over Domanick Davis and when you can trade that pick and get the best OL available and acquire an additional 3-4 starters on a team that has several holes all while saving yourself money in the process it would be foolish to not take advantage of the opportunity.

Daonly
12-18-2005, 11:41 AM
In and Instant as soon as he step foot on the practice field! By the way all these old school Texans fans who say something like this: "Running Backs life span is only 4-5years.) Well, don't you think we need to start drafting another one to take off the wear of. D. Davis? He's already on year three, going on to his 3rd straight 1000 yards rushing season leading us to a 1-15 season; with his measly 2 touchdowns. At least with Bush you can get three players in one, A RB, WR, and a KR (on occasions); also with Blocking, he's one of the best with blocking out of the backfield in college, There! There's your OL! Oh by the way Bush can add more life span to D.Davis;and with the competition, it only add fuel to the fire in Davis's Blood, You think he good now; wait till we draft Bush! Then the Organization would want to protect it's prize Backs and go out and get the best OL to help protect and block for them it's only right to do so, cause that's where Our offense will manifest from. Carr would love the fact because now defenses isn't going to zoom on him, now, they're not going to worry about what Old Carr is up to, they have a bigger problem in the backfield to worry about, (Bush) and on top of that D. Davis (The Good Back). Carr should have his best year as a pro next year leading the Texans to a 10-6 year Wild Card. Bush Offensive ROY, Davis Pro Bowl. How do you like them Apples? :redtowel:

Kaiser Toro
12-18-2005, 11:49 AM
I can't wait. :violin

tulexan
12-18-2005, 11:49 AM
I like how everyone is saying how picking Bush is so risky because he might not pan out, but what if the people that we pick up with the trade don't pan out? Then we gave up Reggie Bush for a few Jason Babin's and Jabar Gaffney's.

There is a big difference between KiJana Carter who was the best running back in the draft and Reggie Bush who could be the best running back in several drafts. I've said this before but it is true, it is like comparing David Carr and John Elway. Entering the draft people thought that Carr was good and would probably be a good pro, but with Elway they knew that he was going to be something special.

zeplin
12-18-2005, 11:58 AM
This isnt basketball. In that sport you can get away with drafting the best player and letting him throw a ball at a hoop. Football takes 10X as much teamwork to work. If each player doesnt do his job then some either gets hurt. Basketball someone messes up a play they miss the bucket o who cares. Stop comparing an A sport like football to a C sport in basketball


If you are going to compare you must compare a apple to a apple and basket ball is not an apple.

zeplin
12-18-2005, 12:05 PM
Well if you are going to dream dream big. I will say you are a great story teller. I almost found myself believing..NOT!!!!

Daonly
12-18-2005, 12:16 PM
Well if you are going to dream dream big. I will say you are a great story teller. I almost found myself believing..NOT!!!!

OK you want me to dream big here I go. Transition Tag David Carr, Get that junk heap out of here! Sign and Trade him and next year's 1st to the highest bidder (Jets,Saints,Ravens). Grab another High First. 5-8 range. Sign a Reeves guy in Schaub from the Falcons.Vince Young will get a feeler back from his Hometown of Houston the Texans. Draft Bush First Over all; Then Draft Vince Young, If Vince Young not on the Board Grab (AJ Hawk or that Super Mario Kid.) 2nd round best available OL. High Third Best Available T. E., Saints Pick, Moss from Miami or Best Available WR at that point, 4-7 filled out the draft with best available in terms of need. Now that's what you call Dreaming Big!

Hottoddie
12-18-2005, 12:40 PM
Listen guys. I'm not saying that Bush playing for the Texans wouldn't be a pleasure to watch every Sunday, but a Ferrari (Bush) can't drive through a collapsing brick wall (the opposing defense). We need some bulldozers & road graders (offensive linemen) to clear the road for him. Our current bulldozers & road graders are just a bunch of Tonka Toys.

You know, the way this debate is getting so devisive, I'm starting to hope we don't get the #1 overall pick. Of course, if we get the #2 pick, then all the Leinhart fans will come back out of the wood works. That's it! I'm rooting for the #3 pick in the draft!!!:yahoo:

tulexan
12-18-2005, 12:47 PM
I'm sorry but I don't see the collapsing brick wall in our run blocking. I see it for our pass blocking, but not our run blocking. Having one does not necessarily mean you have the other. Some teams have great pass blocking (Cardinals), some teams have great run blocking (Broncos). We have pathetic pass blocking and decent run blocking.

Napa Auto Parts
12-18-2005, 12:50 PM
I'm sorry but I don't see the collapsing brick wall in our run blocking. I see it for our pass blocking, but not our run blocking. Having one does not necessarily mean you have the other. Some teams have great pass blocking (Cardinals), some teams have great run blocking (Broncos). We have pathetic pass blocking and decent run blocking.



Some people just assume that we have poor run blocking but thats only shows how much they really know.

royce1054
12-18-2005, 02:06 PM
Better yet why dont we trade completely out of this draft and wait for next year? Get real.


You are totally confused :homer: :confused: :confused:

THis is another Fry from futurama statement "I smell Purple"

royce1054
12-18-2005, 02:09 PM
If you are going to compare you must compare a apple to a apple and basket ball is not an apple.


WHo care basketball sucks

Football is all that matters and you dont mix the different styles of thinking in each of the games. Remember and bum off the street (anyone can throw a ball at a hoop) can play basketball but it takes real talent to play football.

MorKnolle
12-18-2005, 10:29 PM
yeah you took the words right out of my mouth; Bush,and Hawk are the only ones that are a "LOCK" to be great at the next level barring injury. As of pure Skills and Heart there at a Elite Status. So with the Texans having at least a top 5 pick this year we should at least grab either Bush or Hawk (with picks to move down if we grab him.)

AJ Hawk a lock to be a great player? That is ridiculous, and Bush is not a lock to be a great player either. You clearly have no understanding of football.

royce1054
12-18-2005, 10:31 PM
There is no such thing as a "lock player" til they have played 3 years in the league. If they have a good 1st season then you might have the sophmore slump. If they are good the 1st 2 years then come back and say hes a lock

MorKnolle
12-18-2005, 10:39 PM
No, because I think McNair is a better owner than the Ford family. If Reggie is anywhere near the talent that Barry Sanders is, then there is no question that you take him regardless of your running back situation.

He's not near the talent that Barry Sanders was. He is a good athlete, but no where near the RB that Sanders was.

MorKnolle
12-18-2005, 10:48 PM
I'm sorry but I don't see the collapsing brick wall in our run blocking. I see it for our pass blocking, but not our run blocking. Having one does not necessarily mean you have the other. Some teams have great pass blocking (Cardinals), some teams have great run blocking (Broncos). We have pathetic pass blocking and decent run blocking.

Some people just assume that we have poor run blocking but thats only shows how much they really know.

So we should ignore our pathetic pass blocking just because our run blocking is decent? We need to pick up OLinemen that can both pass block and run block, and with so many good ones available we can trade down and pick up three stellar OL to build a great young offense that will be together for years.

tulexan
12-18-2005, 10:50 PM
So we should ignore our pathetic pass blocking just because our run blocking is decent? We need to pick up OLinemen that can both pass block and run block, and with so many good ones available we can trade down and pick up three stellar OL to build a great young offense that will be together for years.


I never said that we should ignore our pathetic pass blocking. I just said that our run blocking actually isn't that bad. And it's not. Everyone is saying how we have such a terrible run blocking unit and how we never create any holes. We do. We just can't pass block.

stevo3883
12-18-2005, 11:05 PM
He's not near the talent that Barry Sanders was. He is a good athlete, but no where near the RB that Sanders was.


in your opinion hes not near the RB barry was, but saying hes not near the talent...

come on man

beerlover
12-19-2005, 12:03 AM
the Texans have played their best football as of late so the "NEW" #1 reason the Texans will not draft Bush is because they won't have the top pick :brickwall

swtbound07
12-19-2005, 12:20 AM
anybody else suddenly worried about reggie bush's knee? i mean....people on this board were hot for mcgahee until he got it shredded in the national championship......suddenly reggie is being clamored for and he is bout to play in the national championship.......

YoungTexanFan
12-19-2005, 12:48 AM
anybody else suddenly worried about reggie bush's knee? i mean....people on this board were hot for mcgahee until he got it shredded in the national championship......suddenly reggie is being clamored for and he is bout to play in the national championship.......

kind of like that streak of guys on the cover of madden. they all got hurt the next year. it was a few of them too, all consecutive i believe.

stevo3883
12-19-2005, 12:53 AM
kind of like that streak of guys on the cover of madden. they all got hurt the next year. it was a few of them too, all consecutive i believe.

its not just getting hurt, they had very bad seasons compared to the year before they were on the cover

YoungTexanFan
12-19-2005, 01:07 AM
its not just getting hurt, they had very bad seasons compared to the year before they were on the cover

yea, no need to worry about a Texan being on the cover though.

texplayer2
12-19-2005, 01:21 AM
yea, no need to worry about a Texan being on the cover though.

I don't know, maybe one of them could change that trend.:)

MorKnolle
12-19-2005, 12:55 PM
in your opinion hes not near the RB barry was, but saying hes not near the talent...

come on man

Let's look at Barry Sanders' stats from 1988 vs. Reggie Bush's from 2005 and see who's a better RB. Even though Bush is a great all-round athlete and has receiving and kick returning stats that make him the most versatile and best college player ever, Domanick Davis' receiving stats are left off when comparing him to other NFL RBs to show that he is lousy, so I'll leave Bush's receiving and returning stats off and just compare rushing stats since that alone is what makes a RB good and is what makes a RB a lock for NFL stardom and the best player to come out of college in 20 years. So let's see who the best college RB is ever:

..............................Barry Sanders....Reggie Bush
Year.............................1988............. ..2005
Games played...................11..................12
Rushing attempts.............344.................187
Rushing yards.................2628...............1658
Yards per carry................7.6.................8.9
Rushing TDs.....................37..................15
Rushing yards per game...238.9..............138.2
TDs per game.................3.36................1.25

Sanders had four games with 300+ rushing yards while Bush has zero. Sanders had 1,472 yards over a span of 5 games, Bush's highest is 846 yards over a 5 game stretch. Sanders scored at least 2 rushing TDs in every game that season, Bush has only had 2+ rushing TDs in 5 out of 12 games this year. Sanders' single-season yards, TDs, and TDs per game stats for 1988 are still NCAA single-season records.

Reggie Bush undeniably has some physical gifts and talents that are close to that of Barry Sanders, but he has not proven in any way that he is as capable of a RB.

stevo3883
12-19-2005, 01:30 PM
i agree Bush is no Barry, no one is. No one is close.

But it was just the part about talent, Bush is as talented as anyone I have ever seen.

Hes very barryesque in the way he makes defenses look.

texplayer2
12-19-2005, 07:44 PM
Let's look at Barry Sanders' stats from 1988 vs. Reggie Bush's from 2005 and see who's a better RB. Even though Bush is a great all-round athlete and has receiving and kick returning stats that make him the most versatile and best college player ever, Domanick Davis' receiving stats are left off when comparing him to other NFL RBs to show that he is lousy, so I'll leave Bush's receiving and returning stats off and just compare rushing stats since that alone is what makes a RB good and is what makes a RB a lock for NFL stardom and the best player to come out of college in 20 years. So let's see who the best college RB is ever:

..............................Barry Sanders....Reggie Bush
Year.............................1988............. ..2005
Games played...................11..................12
Rushing attempts.............344.................187
Rushing yards.................2628...............1658
Yards per carry................7.6.................8.9
Rushing TDs.....................37..................15
Rushing yards per game...238.9..............138.2
TDs per game.................3.36................1.25

Sanders had four games with 300+ rushing yards while Bush has zero. Sanders had 1,472 yards over a span of 5 games, Bush's highest is 846 yards over a 5 game stretch. Sanders scored at least 2 rushing TDs in every game that season, Bush has only had 2+ rushing TDs in 5 out of 12 games this year. Sanders' single-season yards, TDs, and TDs per game stats for 1988 are still NCAA single-season records.

Reggie Bush undeniably has some physical gifts and talents that are close to that of Barry Sanders, but he has not proven in any way that he is as capable of a RB.

Who else was on the team with Barry? The guys Bush plays with are all going to the pros. Wasn't Barry the one man show? Stats are all relative. If you take and run the number of carries up to around the same, the #'s:rolleyes: would be much closer, IF percentages held the same. They MAY have even been even closer with more touches.

real
12-19-2005, 07:50 PM
He's not near the talent that Barry Sanders was. He is a good athlete, but no where near the RB that Sanders was.
As much as I hate to i have to agree on that one...Not because i think bush doesn't have the talent, but for the simple fact that he hasn't proven himself...But on the other hand, you can't blame fans for wanting Bush...He is an exciting player, and that he has proven...He is also a very productive player...That he has proven. What he hasnt "proven" to most...is that he is durable...I understand why the questions of durablity come up...but come on people... He's the best freakin talent coming out...some of you may say he's only done it in college...HELLO...every player coming out has only done it in college...Look you guys would have a better argument if you questioned need for the team...but for god sakes please stop questioning his talent....

tulexan
12-19-2005, 07:57 PM
I'm not saying that Reggie Bush is Barry Sanders because I believe that Barry is the greatest running back of all time. He could've shattered almost all career rushing records if he wanted. But Reggie Bush has been the closest thing to him so far. His stats aren't near Barry Sanders' stats, but if he had 344 carries they might have been much closer. I don't know much about the late 80's Oklahoma State team, but I don't think they had another good running back like LenDale White, one of the top quarterbacks in the NCAA like Matt Leinart, and one of the top receivers like Dwayne Jarrett. I'm sure Barry Sanders was the focal point of the offense where Bush is just the best weapon in a loaded offense.

real
12-19-2005, 08:01 PM
but thats the thing... it's easier to have outrageous stats when you are THE weapon...when there are so many others that are talented, and you still stand out above the rest...

tulexan
12-19-2005, 08:08 PM
Especially in college too because there are so many gimmick offenses like extremely pass heavy or extremely run heavy.

beerlover
12-19-2005, 08:11 PM
I'm not saying that Reggie Bush is Barry Sanders because I believe that Barry is the greatest running back of all time. He could've shattered almost all career rushing records if he wanted. But Reggie Bush has been the closest thing to him so far. His stats aren't near Barry Sanders' stats, but if he had 344 carries they might have been much closer. I don't know much about the late 80's Oklahoma State team, but I don't think they had another good running back like LenDale White, one of the top quarterbacks in the NCAA like Matt Leinart, and one of the top receivers like Dwayne Jarrett. I'm sure Barry Sanders was the focal point of the offense where Bush is just the best weapon in a loaded offense.

Barry Sanders the greatest running back of all time? 1086-87 he gained less than 1,000 yards. not to add insult to injury but you don't think they had another good running back like LenDale White? Does Thurman Thomas count? It was only until after Thomas left to NFL fame with Buffalo did Sanders get the lions share of carries, that was his breakout year 2,600 yds & 39 tds for state. But hey I guess most people don't remember back that far at the time however he seemed like a one year wonder & had a great bowl game I enjoyed that very much :yahoo:

real
12-19-2005, 08:14 PM
so what are you saying ?

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 09:04 PM
we do not need to trade Davis if we draft Bush, as a matter of fact is not that a very good combination? maybe Dominack Davis does not have the size of LenDale White but he is a very good inside the tackle runner, with good hands to also catch out of the backfield. IF USC did not have LenDale White it would much easier to key of Reggie, I would expect USC to run straight at Texas alot more that some people expect. the point being we need both of them for a balanced offense, one does not preclude the other :)
How does having DD stop the D from keying on Bush? Unless you plan on having them both in the backfield at the same time, it really dosnt matter if we have Bush or DD because one of them will be on the sideline! It works for USC because they have a great line and great receivers, something sorley lacking with the Texans. I dont want to invest $40 M in a player who will get 15 carries and 5 catches a game when we have one who has proven he can be effective running and catching for half the price and a much greater need present at O-line and linebacker

real
12-19-2005, 09:06 PM
you just don't wanna change your name

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 09:09 PM
1). The Texans will still have their 2nd, 3rd plus Saints 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th picks. are you telling me if the Texans pick Reggie Bush none of those matter?

2). Does anyone here still have confidence in Charlie Casserly trading down? not to mention the prospects he will target and take.

3). A playmakaker like Reggie Bush makes everyone better.

4). If we have to tear everything down, what a way to start over.

5). The Texans where 7-9 last year, there is something going on besides the players lack of confidence.

6). If someone makes a offer that blows our minds, well then yeah trade down but it would have to be a whopper not just a biggie.

7). A bush in the hand is worth two on top of the mountain or the bottom of a valley.

8). Reggie would put fans back in the seats, not to mention winning again.

9). Carr will no longer be the franchise, Reggie is very marketable and will inspire his own shoe deal, advertisements and Texan name brand recognition.

10). I want to buy a Texans jersey with Reggie Bush name & number 5 (I checked no Texan has this number :) ).

Another Bush a Texan :texflag:
Finnally, now I can watch my Texans lose because they cant protect Carr in my new Reggie Bush sneakers. My life is finally complete!!!

run-david-run
12-19-2005, 09:12 PM
I never said that we should ignore our pathetic pass blocking. I just said that our run blocking actually isn't that bad. And it's not. Everyone is saying how we have such a terrible run blocking unit and how we never create any holes. We do. We just can't pass block.
If you want to see just how good our run blocking is, go and watch the Browns game again. I think DD was hit in the backfield every other carry... Also, because other teams know we cant throw deep, they stack the box, making it much harder to run the ball. Pass blocking really hurts our run blocking, we need to improve both...

tulexan
12-19-2005, 09:14 PM
Barry Sanders the greatest running back of all time? 1086-87 he gained less than 1,000 yards. not to add insult to injury but you don't think they had another good running back like LenDale White? Does Thurman Thomas count? It was only until after Thomas left to NFL fame with Buffalo did Sanders get the lions share of carries, that was his breakout year 2,600 yds & 39 tds for state. But hey I guess most people don't remember back that far at the time however he seemed like a one year wonder & had a great bowl game I enjoyed that very much :yahoo:

I'm a little confused. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Your tone sounds like you are disagreeing, yet your argument supports exactly what I am saying.

real
12-19-2005, 09:21 PM
Pass blocking really hurts our run blocking, we need to improve both...

Of course...but that is an open statement...There is always room for improvement, and how does our pass blocking hurt our run blocking???

beerlover
12-19-2005, 10:38 PM
I'm a little confused. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Your tone sounds like you are disagreeing, yet your argument supports exactly what I am saying.

BREAKDOWN-

Barry Sanders was a GREAT RB but not all time, his College career does not support this arguement. its not just about numbers, in my view its about National Championships, Rose Bowls, BCS Bowls, Superbowls and the like.

Barry Sanders had his LenDale White, I guess you missed that his name was Thurman Thomas while he did not put up Sanders numbers in the NFL he went to 4 straight Superbowls. not the highlight reel kinda guy but effective and a winner.

The common element between Sanders & Bush is their ability to maintain gravity defying balance. Sanders could stop time and strike a pose while the whole world kept spinning.... right on by him. Bush can change motion from zero to 60 in 5 sec. however there is a distinct difference in personalities here that needs to be mentioned, Sanders shed the limelight like he shed would be tacklers eventually shedding his NFL stardom for obscurity. Bush is a prime time phenomenon while articulate & soft spoken off the field he relishes in the trash talking gamesmenship of elite competition.

beerlover
12-19-2005, 10:41 PM
Finnally, now I can watch my Texans lose because they cant protect Carr in my new Reggie Bush sneakers. My life is finally complete!!!

relax in your Reggie Bush sneakers its called :sarcasm:

MorKnolle
12-20-2005, 11:04 AM
As much as I hate to i have to agree on that one...Not because i think bush doesn't have the talent, but for the simple fact that he hasn't proven himself...But on the other hand, you can't blame fans for wanting Bush...He is an exciting player, and that he has proven...He is also a very productive player...That he has proven. What he hasnt "proven" to most...is that he is durable...I understand why the questions of durablity come up...but come on people... He's the best freakin talent coming out...some of you may say he's only done it in college...HELLO...every player coming out has only done it in college...Look you guys would have a better argument if you questioned need for the team...but for god sakes please stop questioning his talent....

I don't question his athletic talent, although I do question people that say he is a lock for Hall of Fame or he's the best player to come out in 40 years and that kind of nonsense. I can't say I wouldn't want Bush on my team, but with the way our team currently is, if we end up with the #1 pick I think it would be much better for the overall talent of the team to trade the pick down.

but thats the thing... it's easier to have outrageous stats when you are THE weapon...when there are so many others that are talented, and you still stand out above the rest...

That has been another part of my point, Bush has put up good stats with amazing talent around him, but he has yet to "prove" that he can carry the entire load of a team on his shoulders and be the main go-to guy that so many people are claiming he's proven that he will be able to do in the NFL.

tulexan
12-20-2005, 11:46 AM
That has been another part of my point, Bush has put up good stats with amazing talent around him, but he has yet to "prove" that he can carry the entire load of a team on his shoulders and be the main go-to guy that so many people are claiming he's proven that he will be able to do in the NFL.

I see what you are saying, but hasn't he done that in some of the big games this season? Leinart was struggling against UCLA and Reggie Bush took over and had 250 yards in the first half. The same thing happened against Fresno State and against Notre Dame. What I have noticed from him is that he steps up in big games and raises his game to another level. I think that trait is something that you only see in great players. A lot of good players will disappear when the game counts while the cream rises to the top and you see who is great and who is good.