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sensei
12-13-2005, 09:53 AM
For the first time I was really surprised and disappointed at the actions of Bob McNair. I had considered him to be a first class type of guy. I have NO PROBLEM with the actions he took yesterday in hiring Reeves. As a matter of fact I am glad he took action. I have a lot of problems with the way he did it.

The thing is, he could have done all he did without humiliating both Casserly and Capers. No one outside of the organization even had to know he had hired a consultant at this time to evaluate everyone. If it leaked out, so be it. Let everyone speculate. They will anyway.

The whole NFL is watching. How would you feel about becoming the next group of coaches or general manager if you had witnessed yesterdays fiasco? He took both Capers and Casserely and held them up for public ridicule unnecessarily.

I thought both Casserly and Capers showed what kind of peple they really are. Can you imagine how difficult it must have been to sit through that conference? While I'm not happy with their job performance, they are both CLASS people and have my respect. As they both are still under contract to him they had no choice but to show up for the conference. How would you feel if you knew you were going to be fired but were ordered to show up for the public announcement. I would just tell him to stick it and walk out the door. Maybe that was the hoped for result.

I know some of you will say he did this to appease the fans. At this point all the tickets are still sold. He has plenty of time to right the ship before he will take a hit in the pocketbook. If you really think the NFL owners care at all what you think about how they run their teams...well, I have a bridge to sell you.

Like I said at the beginning: I have no problem with what he did. I think there were better ways to do it.

O.K., blast away.

sensei

Texas_Thrill
12-13-2005, 09:57 AM
I'm disappointed in his timing though I still won't be sticking up for cass and capers. I thought a press conference to evaluate talent is totally pointless in week 15 of the season. What would have waiting until the off-season hurt?

Runner
12-13-2005, 10:00 AM
What would have waiting until the off-season hurt?

Hopefully he can force Pendry to play the players that should have gotten time all year so they can be evaluated.

HJam72
12-13-2005, 10:01 AM
The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that Capers and Casserly actually had to go to the press conference. They could have been left out of that, but otherwise I think he made a good decision. Maybe he wanted them there to just to try and show by their showing up that they are not too upset about it. If that was the play, I don't think it worked very well. Capers looked like he was really fighting to look OK with it and Casserly looked like he was extrememly irritated.

tulexan
12-13-2005, 10:03 AM
He probably wants to get a head start. If he is going to fire and hire people, why not get the process started now rather than 4 weeks from now when you could be rebuilding the team? If anything, this shows that the Texans are not going to have one of their typical passive offseasons.

Txn_in_FL
12-13-2005, 10:04 AM
I don't know. I just think that in the last few days that a lot has come out about some of the things being done on this team (PBuc trade) that McNair is not happy about. He let people that he thought he could trust take the reins on his investment and they screwed the pooch and made him look a bit foolish.

There comes a point where you have to take control of the situation no matter whose feelings get hurt, that's just good business. He hired Reeves because he is going to get someone who is going to tell him what is up. He thought he already had someone like that but he didn't and got hosed.

Hell, he has a lot more restraint than I do. If I owned that team and I found out that they blew all those picks on Buchanon without doing any research someone would be looking for a job.

:texflag:

Txn_in_FL
12-13-2005, 10:07 AM
The only thing I have a problem with is the fact that Capers and Casserly actually had to go to the press conference.

Made him look like a fool so now it's their turn.

Plus, I think you need to show that everyone is on board. If DC and CC weren't there then it would look like it was a behind the back, shady kinda thing. With everyone there it looks like all is well with the world.

:texans:

Runner
12-13-2005, 10:08 AM
Capers looked like he was really fighting to look OK with it and Casserly looked like he was extrememly irritated.

Well, if the coordinators had held their players accountable on the field, this may not have happened. If Capers would have held his coordinators accountable for their bad decisions - personnel and play calling, this might not have happened. If Casserly would have held Capers accountable and made him replace the inferior players who were playing in front of better options, this might not have happened.

Now accountability is here and it isn't pretty since it has been ducked for so long. It is their own fault.

Marcus
12-13-2005, 10:11 AM
You're not going to get a blast from me. I happen to agree very much with what you said. The Richard Justice article from last week is another instance where he threw either a player or coach or general manager under the bus publicly. So yeah, I'm starting to wonder about him.

Another thing that bothers me about him. He's going to other owners around the league asking their advice about what's wrong with his team? That indicates he's really confused and unsure about what he wants or should do.

tulexan
12-13-2005, 10:14 AM
Yeah it shows he is unsure about what to do, but he also isn't going to make a dumb decision like Dan Snyder would. I'd rather him be confused and asking for help than thinking he knows what to do when he doesn't and making stupid mistakes.

cuppacoffee
12-13-2005, 10:26 AM
For the first time I was really surprised and disappointed at the actions of Bob McNair. I had considered him to be a first class type of guy. I have NO PROBLEM with the actions he took yesterday in hiring Reeves. As a matter of fact I am glad he took action. I have a lot of problems with the way he did it.

The thing is, he could have done all he did without humiliating both Casserly and Capers. No one outside of the organization even had to know he had hired a consultant at this time to evaluate everyone. If it leaked out, so be it. Let everyone speculate. They will anyway.

The whole NFL is watching. How would you feel about becoming the next group of coaches or general manager if you had witnessed yesterdays fiasco? He took both Capers and Casserely and held them up for public ridicule unnecessarily.

I thought both Casserly and Capers showed what kind of peple they really are. Can you imagine how difficult it must have been to sit through that conference? While I'm not happy with their job performance, they are both CLASS people and have my respect. As they both are still under contract to him they had no choice but to show up for the conference. How would you feel if you knew you were going to be fired but were ordered to show up for the public announcement. I would just tell him to stick it and walk out the door. Maybe that was the hoped for result.

I know some of you will say he did this to appease the fans. At this point all the tickets are still sold. He has plenty of time to right the ship before he will take a hit in the pocketbook. If you really think the NFL owners care at all what you think about how they run their teams...well, I have a bridge to sell you.

Like I said at the beginning: I have no problem with what he did. I think there were better ways to do it.

O.K., blast away.

sensei

Not a blast sensei...you have a valid point of view.

I guess its OK to feel for Cass and Dom,..... but look at the other side of the picture.

Has Cass ever come out and admitted, "I blew it on the PBuch trade or I got schooled on the Babin deal" ? Why did I spend a #2 on Hollings. Even if the coaches did ask for it. As a seasoned GM he should have known better.

Has Dom ever admitted " I blew it when I hired a coaching staff that had no clue" or "Playing to keep it close doesn't work for this team"? I don't think so. Seems like all I hear is Cass and Dom blaming the players for lack of "execution". To me thats hanging the players out for ridicule.

I am probably in the minority here but I believe the biggest problem is not our players but our coaching. Cass has managed to get at least average NFL quality players in here, they are receiving less than average NFL coaching.

I was pleading for Mr McNair to do something. He has. Is it the right thing? Only time will tell. I've always believed in the saying that "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". Mr McNair made a tough decision in doing what he did, I commend him.
BTW I imagine that both Cass and Dom are at least financially secure, and both will find jobs if indeed they are replaced.

just my... :twocents:


:coffee:

Scooter
12-13-2005, 10:35 AM
You're not going to get a blast from me. I happen to agree very much with what you said. The Richard Justice article from last week is another instance where he threw either a player or coach or general manager under the bus publicly. So yeah, I'm starting to wonder about him.

Another thing that bothers me about him. He's going to other owners around the league asking their advice about what's wrong with his team? That indicates he's really confused and unsure about what he wants or should do.

no, he's deffinately not the most versed owner out there, but it says to me that he's actively trying to be. would you rather him not be asking questions and trying to learn the ropes, and instead give full control to another casserly + capers?

with that being said, i think it's the only way he could've brought in reeves. had he not brought it to attention publicly, people would've still found out and it would've looked more like they were trying to hide something. a lot of speculation and rumors would circulate as to why mcnair is in constant contact with a high profile coach while capers and/or casserly were still employed here. as for casserly & capers being there, i think it's again for appearance reasons, to look as though the entire staff is working together.

Runner
12-13-2005, 10:40 AM
I am probably in the minority here but I believe the biggest problem is not our players but our coaching. Cass has managed to get at least average NFL quality players in here, they are receiving less than average NFL coaching.


I agree with this. I don't think the coaching staff has made the most of the players available or used them as Casserly envisioned. For instance in the Victor Riley case, Casserly obviously thought that Riley was nothing more than a back-up who should see limited time - an upgrade to Marcus Spears, but no more than that. I think this because his contract included a bonus for appearing in 10 games or so. This tells me Casserly did not expect him to be a starter.

Pendry then latches onto Riley like he's the best thing he's ever see. It should be obvious in hindsight to even the Wand haters that Riley was a BIG step backward. Riley continued starting many games after proving he wasn't very good. He's then cut and we have done NOTHING to build for the future, like giving our young players a chance to improve through playing time. This chance to improve would have ended up in with a better performance than that turned in by the veteran Riley. This specific example was all on the coaches.

Marcus
12-13-2005, 11:08 AM
no, he's deffinately not the most versed owner out there, but it says to me that he's actively trying to be. would you rather him not be asking questions and trying to learn the ropes, and instead give full control to another casserly + capers?

with that being said, i think it's the only way he could've brought in reeves. had he not brought it to attention publicly, people would've still found out and it would've looked more like they were trying to hide something. a lot of speculation and rumors would circulate as to why mcnair is in constant contact with a high profile coach while capers and/or casserly were still employed here. as for casserly & capers being there, i think it's again for appearance reasons, to look as though the entire staff is working together.

I'm sorry, (Jeez, I'm starting to sound like Ibar) but this a panic move by McNair to appease the fans, at the expense of subjecting his people to public humiliation and ridicule. Capers and Casserly, what ever you might think of them, deserve better respect from the owner. They both have been in the NFL a long time. They are experienced people who know what happens when a team is having a bad year. The reaction from the public (fans, media) is the same in every city. They are keeping their wits about them, and are to be commended for maintaining a professional attitude.

But then you have an owner who is showing that he hasn't been around the block. I think down the road, the 'public' actions and decisions that he's making now will come back to haunt him.

edo783
12-13-2005, 11:34 AM
I'm sorry, (Jeez, I'm starting to sound like Ibar) but this a panic move by McNair to appease the fans, at the expense of subjecting his people to public humiliation and ridicule. Capers and Casserly, what ever you might think of them, deserve better respect from the owner. They both have been in the NFL a long time. They are experienced people who know what happens when a team is having a bad year. The reaction from the public (fans, media) is the same in every city. They are keeping their wits about them, and are to be commended for maintaining a professional attitude.

But then you have an owner who is showing that he hasn't been around the block. I think down the road, the 'public' actions and decisions that he's making now will come back to haunt him.

The other thing he might be showing is that he is REALLY P.O.ed about being lied to and didn't feel bad about pillaring them in public. Can't say I blame him. I might have let CC & Dom know a day ahead, but can't say I feel for them.

MorKnolle
12-13-2005, 11:49 AM
I think they were initially trying to keep it relatively quiet but the news did leak out before their press conference. Either way I like that he came out and held a press conference to tell us what was going on before we heard some twisted story from the media later this week about how Dan Reeves has been out watching practices for the last couple days and the Texans haven't said anything about it so they must be bringing him in as our next coach and GM and they are trying to hide it from all of us. I prefer that he comes out and tells us what is going on like he did do, granted it would be a little unnerving for Capers an Casserly since both of their jobs are in trouble, that a long-time football genius is coming in to evaluate our teams and is here to help you guys in the last few weeks of your jobs to help improve the team after they've been fired. I think it was kind of a lose/lose situation for McNair on that, he would look bad either way he did it.

Vinny
12-13-2005, 11:52 AM
I'm fine with this move since McNair has only been schooled about the NFL from the guys who have given him a 1-12 franchise in 4 years of hard work. It's time to get another POV in before we have to make a decision on Carr, the draft (its here in 4 months and change) and our long term future. It's real easy to complain but it's obvious to me that McNair cares about this franchise and is working to improve it without making a ton of assumptions or trying to re-invent the wheel. If anyone gets their feelings hurt on the staff....tough luck, but 1-12 doesn't buy you much comfort room.

rockabilly
12-13-2005, 11:56 AM
yeah, cant help but feel sorry for cc and dc...hiring reeves basically questions their integrity and is a shot to their pride. However when your dealing with a million dollar business, tough calls are neccessary. Someone is gonna get hurt in the process when things need to be fixed. I wanted to call in to the Capers show yesterday so bad and ask Dom a tough questions...but didnt have the heart to.

billtxus
12-13-2005, 12:00 PM
Not sure what you are saying he should have done. There was no way to hire Reeves without being upfront to Dom and Charlie. For Reeves to do his job he has to have access to coaches, players, film and practice. You think it would have been better for him to just be walking around Reliant without any explanation at all to the press and coaches. That would have been dirty dealing.

Dom and Charlie are lucky they still have jobs, even in mid season they might have been fired for the stupidity we've seen so far this season, and for the bad moves made last offseason. Their only hope is to work with Reeves with the long shot hope that things can be fixed without them being fired.

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2005, 12:15 PM
::tomato: ... What if Bob went to CC and said " Hey Chuck ... why can't we win ?" and CC replied " I'll tell you Bob , Dom 's not the coach I thought he was . In fact I've laid great talent at his feet you see and we still can't win . "

Bob then approaches Dom and says " Dominic why can't we win ? " Capers answers " Bob ... how can I compete if we don't execute perfectly and win every down with this talent . I asked CC for a guy who's just like Dunta and CC gives me a guy who's the same size . He asked me what player I wanted in the draft and I replied " I 'll take Johnson " and he gets me Travis . Bob we could have done better just using Mel Kipers draft guide .

ATX_Texan
12-13-2005, 12:57 PM
I don't really care about hurting the feelings of Casserly and Capers. The Texans have to make some very important personnel decisions. The top one being the bonus for David Carr. I continue to read that this decision has to be made prior to the end of this season. It is common knowledge that Casserly is determined to sign the deal. Since he will not fire Casserly before the season, McNair needs some outside evaluation on this matter. It makes no sense to let Casserly sign Carr, fire him, and then force the next GM to live with that decision.

I cannot believe that people actually believe it would be better for McNair to work behind the scenes without telling Casserly what Reeves was doing. I think McNair should be applauded for sending a clear message that things are not right and an evaluation will be done in order to get things turned around.

Hardcore Texan
12-13-2005, 12:59 PM
I am suprised, but certainly not disappointed.
With our record and all of the bad picks/trades. Capers and Casserly should have been expecting this all season.

Just drawing on personal experience, but I got UNEXPECTEDLY laid off the week before Thanksgiving in 2002. I didn't have a severance package, I didnt' have a hefty salary, and sure didn't have a performace like a 1-12 season. I was handed my last check and that was it. It was a money thing....and this too is a business thing.

These guys have been blowing it all season, for them not to expect some kind of action at anytime would be absurd. They have made their bed and now it is time to lie in it.

At least they are granted the luxury of a pay check for the next few weeks, as McNair has repeatedly stated everyone's job is intact until the season ends.
It is real hard to fault Mcnair for bringing in Reeves, Cass and Capers are lucky to still be on the payroll....I didn't see any threads about people feeling for Palmer when Capers axed him earlier this season.

All that being said, I believe Cass and Capers are good guys (and how do we know they were not given a heads up before the conference). But this is a tough business and tough decisions have to be made especially when you are the laughing stock of the League.

Business is Business.....if Work was meant to be easy, they would call it Play.
This was a GOOD business decision for the future of the franchise..Period.

HardKnockTexan
12-13-2005, 01:08 PM
I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who is making millions of dollars. In big business toes get stepped on and if you cant deal with it then dont put yourself into situations where your feet might get hurt!

Kaiser Toro
12-13-2005, 01:16 PM
This was done right by McNair. He now has a respected conduit in Reeves that can filter any potential candidates for staff and operations.

I am sensitive to perception in how this team is run, but in this circumstance (and I am former college coach) it comes with the territory when you do not post a winning season during your tenure.

To quote Hyman Roth in The Godfather, "This is the business we chose."

CowboysTexansFan
12-13-2005, 01:26 PM
I disagree with the original poster completely. I've already commented on this in the Dan Reeves Hired thread, but suffice it to say that I LOVE what Mr. McNair did yesterday.

Better days are in store for us, and I'm psyched.

As to hurt feelings on the part of Casserly and Capers, so f'n what?

The team is 1-12 because of their work. They're lucky they haven't been fired already.

Keyser Soze
12-13-2005, 01:28 PM
Like others have said, when you go 1-12, you've got it coming. This isn't like they're 5-8 and missing the playoffs. In some organizations, they'd be gone already.

If Capers didn't like it, he should have done something about his coaching staff long ago. If Casserly didn't like it, he should learn to evaluate talent better. It's a results-oriented business, and their results have been shameful.

They don't like the fact they've lost the owner's ear. Tough. They lost his team long ago. Can't blame the man for trying to salvage what they've done to his team.

Marcus
12-13-2005, 01:29 PM
It is real hard to fault Mcnair for bringing in Reeves, Cass and Capers are lucky to still be on the payroll....I didn't see any threads about people feeling for Palmer when Capers axed him earlier this season.

You didn't look very hard.;)

Can you say . . SCAPEGOAT? (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12510&highlight=scapegoat)


_________________________________

Ibar_Harry
12-13-2005, 01:41 PM
If you look back I mentioned Reeves long ago as an interim. I still think its necessary to fire the current coaching staff now in order to do the necessary evaluations of the players on the rooster. I say that because Dom and his staff, particularly Pendry, make it very difficult to do that job. I think that the Reeves hiring continues to point to the fact that McNair was not given honest answers. I've stated that on numerous occassions. Reeves should have been hired as the interim long ago and not as a consultant. That would remove another variable in evaluating Casserly, because Reeves could get a 1st hand feeling for the players Casserly has supplied through Capers evaluations. It would be an easy move from there to GM with the hiring of a new coach. The current coaching staff is doing nothing but damage to this ball club and they should not remain another day, except for Marciano. The O-line is in total disarray and is the best example of Pendry's coaching ability. I'm sorry, but its time for a Texans' fans Christmas package.

Hardcore Texan
12-13-2005, 01:47 PM
You didn't look very hard.;)

Can you say . . SCAPEGOAT? (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12510&highlight=scapegoat)


_________________________________

Glad you know how hard I looked because I didn't find your thread. Does it matter anyway at this point. Palmer didn't deserve a whole bunch of sympathy and neither do Cass & Capers. But, Yes Palmer was sacrificed when it should have been Capers or Casserly or all of the above. And firing him was putting a band aid on the problem. But Palmer wasn't totally innocent, his bone head playcalling was too predictable and not effective. Just one less problem (person that needs to be fired) that has to be fixed at this point.

Hardcore Texan
12-13-2005, 01:51 PM
If you look back I mentioned Reeves long ago as an interim. I still think its necessary to fire the current coaching staff now in order to do the necessary evaluations of the players on the rooster. I say that because Dom and his staff, particularly Pendry, make it very difficult to do that job. I think that the Reeves hiring continues to point to the fact that McNair was not given honest answers. I've stated that on numerous occassions. Reeves should have been hired as the interim long ago and not as a consultant. That would remove another variable in evaluating Casserly, because Reeves could get a 1st hand feeling for the players Casserly has supplied through Capers evaluations. It would be an easy move from there to GM with the hiring of a new coach. The current coaching staff is doing nothing but damage to this ball club and they should not remain another day, except for Marciano. The O-line is in total disarray and is the best example of Pendry's coaching ability. I'm sorry, but its time for a Texans' fans Christmas package.

Right On. :thumbup

I wouldn't mind seeing Reeves stay on in place of Casserly. It might be a longshot, but it would be great IMO.

U4ikrob
12-13-2005, 02:25 PM
Totally disagree with the OP - Bottom line this was a business decision - Capers and CAsserley are still a part of this business and have not been fired. They were "included" at the press conference because Reeves will now be a part of the same staff. This same staff that just a few weeks prior let the owner know they have been lieing to him, falsly advising him and bullying him into decisiosn they wanted or thought were good - yet you dont see a press conference from either Charlie or Dom taking responsability for those actions. No press conference statign that we made the wrong call on Riley, Greenwood, Babin, Buchanon, Hollings etc etc...

Bottom line he put forth soem moxy and made a choice for "His" business - not Charlies or Dom's. I'm sure there feeligns may have been a little hurt because they were not kept "in the loop" of information about the decision to get somebody in here to consult with on whats wrong - but honestly how could they look themselves in the mirror every day and say they tried their hardest for Mr. McNair? - Bottom line - they cant do it because they know it wouldnt be true. Mr. Mcnair is making decisions to try and fix the problem now rather than bottom feeding and blaming it on the players "not executing" until theend of the season and then having nothing still to show for it except a 1-15 ball club and the people around him are the ones who took them there.

IMO - Neither Charlie nor Dom has accepted nor taken responsability for this teams performance for a majority of this year and they were finally called to the carpet for their choices - They had more than a few opportunities to make things right - fire coaches, bench players etc and Accept responsability for not preparing the players, not scouting properly - not watching enough film on a potential player or pick - yet neither has ever come forth to accept that they are part of the problem - they just point the fingers at the players. Neither has made any effort to say "Hey I made a mistake and i'm sorry" to the fans and the people who pay there salaries and root for the team on Sunday's. Yet the OP is talking about their feeligns being hurt???

How about the fans feelings??
How about Mr. Mcnair's feelings after he found out his staff has been duping him for most of the 4 years in a public newspaper no less?

Talk about lack of class - Justice and Mcclain both have shown in the last few weeks especially to have very little class, tact and knowledge of the situation ratehr than reporting the facts and giving opinions on those things. Conjecture is not newsworthy to me yet they seem to spill it out every week for a paycheck and I have grown more and more tired of hearing there empty two-faced rhetoric. For weeks both writers capped on Charlie and dom for not preparing the team, players not playing up to par not in position and players loosing faith in the coaches. Now the owner makes a choice to get an experienced football guy and a friend to come in and give him some advice like any other smart business person would do in this position and now all of a sudden C&C are great and have done nothing wrong and the Owner is an *** for bringing in somebody without consulting them?? Pardon my language - but who the hell Owns this team??

IMO IF C&C are such stand up guys and didnt want there feelings hurt maybe they could have done a better job over the last 4 years.

But they havent...

IF they were such stand up and honest people - Maybe they could have stood up at a press conference sometime before the last 3 weeks of the year and said - "Im sorry to the fans and media for the horrible under-producing product WE have put out on the field and for missleading our owner, the media and the fans about our decisions"

but they havent...

These two guys are just as much responsible for forcing Mr. Mcnair to have to make a decision by their inaction, direct deceit, and unwise decisions. Honestly if I were in Mr. Mcnair's position I would be hard pressed to keep a straight face and keep saying they could keep their job. Because he has done what he has said he would do and is letting them keep their jobs until the end of the year. But rather than backing himself or letting them back him in a corner - he made a hard choice.

A choice I agree with.

zeplin
12-13-2005, 02:42 PM
I think that if Bob is asking questions outside his advisors we might be on our way to righting the ship. If he doesn't trust his closest football people to fill in the gaps in his NFL footbal education, then that should tell us that the gang plank has been dropped for C and C to start that long walk toward the door.
Reeves would apear to be a good choice as GM but not the coaching position.
It is no big suprise to see Bob surrounding himself with people that he has some history with as his new NFL adisors.

touttail
12-13-2005, 03:05 PM
I'm fine with this move since McNair has only been schooled about the NFL from the guys who have given him a 1-12 franchise in 4 years of hard work. It's time to get another POV in before we have to make a decision on Carr, the draft (its here in 4 months and change) and our long term future. It's real easy to complain but it's obvious to me that McNair cares about this franchise and is working to improve it without making a ton of assumptions or trying to re-invent the wheel. If anyone gets their feelings hurt on the staff....tough luck, but 1-12 doesn't buy you much comfort room.


I agree. McNair admits he's not a football guru and he needs someone for advice, hence Reeves.

Hurt feelings? Man sports is a dog eat dog world. You gotta do what you gotta do, don't matter whose or how many toes you step on.

Bobby 119C:brickwall

SheTexan
12-13-2005, 03:24 PM
You guys crack me up!! All of you are so quick to assume that Capers and Casserly are both going bye bye at the end of the season. WhatEVER will any of you do IF neither loses his job!!

This board is ALWAYS good for my daily laughathon!!

jjjezebel
12-13-2005, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=SheTexan]You guys crack me up!! All of you are so quick to assume that Capers and Casserly are both going bye bye at the end of the season. WhatEVER will any of you do IF neither loses his job!! QUOTE]
What makes you think they won't be going bye bye? Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smart a**, it would just be interesting to hear some reasons for keeping them.

Not that I think we should. :)

ccdude730
12-13-2005, 03:47 PM
What would have waiting until the off-season hurt?
part of the evaluations will take place at practices so he get a feel for players attitudes, coaching strategy, favoritism *cough* wand at RT *cough*

El Tejano
12-13-2005, 04:19 PM
part of the evaluations will take place at practices so he get a feel for players attitudes, coaching strategy, favoritism *cough* wand at RT *cough*

Furthermore it ensures that our team will be giving 100 % for the rest of the season to really find out who is worth keeping and who aint.

But I don't feel sorry for Capers or Casserly. They never once apologized to Mcnair or Carr for not drafting better talent at the OL position. Instead our QB gets pounded and shell shocked, and our team gets made fun of when we fire the OC and replace him with the OL coach who is the reason this team has been bad in the first place.

Mcnair didn't do anything to them. They did it to themselves.

Hardcore Texan
12-13-2005, 06:02 PM
You guys crack me up!! All of you are so quick to assume that Capers and Casserly are both going bye bye at the end of the season. WhatEVER will any of you do IF neither loses his job!!

This board is ALWAYS good for my daily laughathon!!


I think most of us have said it can go either way with Casserly, but you HAVE TO BELIEVE Capers will be gone. It is pretty much a guarantee at this point.

Tulip
12-13-2005, 06:17 PM
I am probably in the minority here but I believe the biggest problem is not our players but our coaching. Cass has managed to get at least average NFL quality players in here, they are receiving less than average NFL coaching.

I agree, and I think this is why Casserly shouldn't be as upset about Reeves as he is. Reeves could save Casserly's job in the end. I think McNair wants to avoid unnecessary firings, and to do that, he has to find the true root of the problem.

Marcus
12-13-2005, 06:35 PM
I think most of us have said it can go either way with Casserly, but you HAVE TO BELIEVE Capers will be gone. It is pretty much a guarantee at this point.

You see there? What we have is a classic, classic example of, if you say it often enough, post it often enough, yell it often enough . . . then it will happen, without so much as a scintilla of a hint laid down by the person making the decision.

Some of you could end up being real shocked.

tsip
12-13-2005, 06:49 PM
I'm fine with this move since McNair has only been schooled about the NFL from the guys who have given him a 1-12 franchise in 4 years of hard work. It's time to get another POV in before we have to make a decision on Carr, the draft (its here in 4 months and change) and our long term future. It's real easy to complain but it's obvious to me that McNair cares about this franchise and is working to improve it without making a ton of assumptions or trying to re-invent the wheel. If anyone gets their feelings hurt on the staff....tough luck, but 1-12 doesn't buy you much comfort room.

...exactly

titan hater
12-13-2005, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm fine with this move since McNair has only been schooled about the NFL from the guys who have given him a 1-12 franchise in 4 years of hard work. It's time to get another POV in before we have to make a decision on Carr, the draft (its here in 4 months and change) and our long term future. It's real easy to complain but it's obvious to me that McNair cares about this franchise and is working to improve it without making a ton of assumptions or trying to re-invent the wheel. If anyone gets their feelings hurt on the staff....tough luck, but 1-12 doesn't buy you much comfort room.


...exactly


I guess $750 million can't buy you a winner as well....

Honoring Earl 34
12-13-2005, 08:15 PM
:yahoo: This is like when my Mom used to check my homework . The bad part is I really did'nt do it .

Hardcore Texan
12-13-2005, 08:30 PM
You see there? What we have is a classic, classic example of, if you say it often enough, post it often enough, yell it often enough . . . then it will happen, without so much as a scintilla of a hint laid down by the person making the decision.

Some of you could end up being real shocked.


First, it is my opinion that there isn't a doubt Capers is gone. Not because I read it enough, heard it enough, etc.....but because it's what I feel like WILL happen. An opinion to which I am entitled. I said early I wouldn't be suprised to see Cass stay. But I would be shocked if Capers isn't fired, you are right about that at least.

Second, if you don't think McNair bringing in Reeves can be consider a "scintilla of a hint" of the winds of change then I disagree...and I don't think I am alone.

Wolf
12-13-2005, 09:06 PM
I didn't read through the whole thing but here is my take..

McNair did this what any smart owner of a "corporation" would do when things go sour.. They get a consultant to get a different point of view.. do you think that vice presidents or presidents of corporations feel the way Dom and Charlie do.. probably..

Personally I think Capers knows that his job is gone.. when you go from a team that had playoff expectations to one that is fighting to win game #2 is a sure sign that changes are in order.. After all they had 4 years to "build" and it went to tear down.. Also with players grumbling and turmoil with the interworks of the team ... outside help is needed ..

Even a place like homedepot will send corporate people down to a store if the turnover rate gets more than usual to investigate why people are leave.

mean mark8
12-13-2005, 10:50 PM
This is the real world and life isn't fair. If the team were anywhere close to the 7-9 unit of last year, Capers and Casserly wouldn't be facing this. They're getting paid nicely and have been in the league long enough to know what happens when you don't perform. The Texans aren't even being carried on TV in any other city in Texas at this point. McNair has to do something. We are the only team not to do anything in the last 2 years playing at this poor level. All he has done at this point is hire a consultant. He hasn't actually fired anyone other than Palmer earlier in the year. He's brought in a 3rd party observer to say what he thinks. We are purely speculating as to what the ultimate meaning of this will be. If I perform my job as poorly as these guys have, I would be appreciative that they only bring in a consultant to see how I can improve rather than firing me right then and there.

TexanAlmighty
12-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Bob McNair had so much promise as the owner of the Texans. His expansion Texans have been run with class, his stadium is gorgeous, his popularity with local fans extraordinarily high. Now he’s botched all this good will by hiring Dan Reeves as a consultant.

It is no way to treat Dom Capers, his coach, and Charley Casserly, his general manager. Despite the denials, Reeves’ presence is a symbol of the obvious—both Capers and Casserly are going to take the fall for the Texans’ awful season.

Both understand how this business works, that poor performance on the field endangers job security. But to insult them by bringing in Reeves like this, so he can second-guess them with the owner’s blessing, is simply an awful decision. If McNair wants the two men replaced, tell them now they are gone at season’s end. But to say, as he did at a press conference Monday, that Reeves would not be critiquing their performances is laughable. What else will he do if not evaluate the coaching and personnel decisions of this team?


McNair also said he has been talking to other owners and asking them their opinion about his team and its players. Simply mindboggling. I could call an AFC general manager right now and ask him to evaluate the personnel of a NFC team and he probably would have problems. These guys don’t have time to study teams outside their division, much less in the other conference. Yet McNair thinks an owner—Dan Snyder? Wayne Huizenga? Woody Johnson? -- actually could properly evaluate his roster.

This is how owners make lousy decisions. He has two men of great loyalty in Capers and Casserly, and they should be treated with dignity and respect. Yet neither were told of the Reeves hire until just hours before the press conference. It’s not good, and it’s not right.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10467357/

touttail
12-14-2005, 03:10 PM
Like I said in a similar thread.
Sports is a dog eat dog world!

Bobby 119C:brickwall

abbest
12-14-2005, 03:11 PM
Bob McNair had so much promise as the owner of the Texans. His expansion Texans have been run with class, his stadium is gorgeous, his popularity with local fans extraordinarily high. Now he’s botched all this good will by hiring Dan Reeves as a consultant.

It is no way to treat Dom Capers, his coach, and Charley Casserly, his general manager. Despite the denials, Reeves’ presence is a symbol of the obvious—both Capers and Casserly are going to take the fall for the Texans’ awful season.

Both understand how this business works, that poor performance on the field endangers job security. But to insult them by bringing in Reeves like this, so he can second-guess them with the owner’s blessing, is simply an awful decision. If McNair wants the two men replaced, tell them now they are gone at season’s end. But to say, as he did at a press conference Monday, that Reeves would not be critiquing their performances is laughable. What else will he do if not evaluate the coaching and personnel decisions of this team?


McNair also said he has been talking to other owners and asking them their opinion about his team and its players. Simply mindboggling. I could call an AFC general manager right now and ask him to evaluate the personnel of a NFC team and he probably would have problems. These guys don’t have time to study teams outside their division, much less in the other conference. Yet McNair thinks an owner—Dan Snyder? Wayne Huizenga? Woody Johnson? -- actually could properly evaluate his roster.

This is how owners make lousy decisions. He has two men of great loyalty in Capers and Casserly, and they should be treated with dignity and respect. Yet neither were told of the Reeves hire until just hours before the press conference. It’s not good, and it’s not right.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10467357/I agree it was not right but C&C Stink Factory knew something was coming by McNair`s questioning others without approaching them.

Kaiser Toro
12-14-2005, 03:13 PM
I 100% agre with this statement: If McNair wants the two men replaced, tell them now they are gone at season’s end.

wrestler4life
12-14-2005, 03:18 PM
I say quit complaining! Everyone has wanted him (McNair) to do something to let everyone know that change is on the way, and that he was not going to stand for these types of performances, by anyone.
And now, all you can do is complain about how he does it?!?
You are never going to be satisfied. Quit looking for the negative.

Coach C.
12-14-2005, 03:21 PM
Man this is how business works. This happens alot at most fortune 500 companies. It is how you stay sharp and stay on top, or get to the top. I think the way McNair has handled this season and this situation is impressive and makes it easy to understand why he is a billionaire and has one of the highest grossing teams in the league. You want to be treated fairly from a corporation start your own, if you are going to work for someone you are expendable if you dont do your job. GET OVER IT PEOPLE...

Runner
12-14-2005, 03:27 PM
I'd like to feel sorry for them, but I can't. The way Pendry abuses his power when he puts good players in a season long doghouse is inexcusable. These are young men who have one shot to make it in this league, and this sort of action can ruin a career. The average NFL career is around 3-4 years; if a player is black balled from playing in that time he may never get a chance to generate the film necessary to get interest from another team.

Capers did not stop this by allowing Pendry to start players such as Victor Riley every game possible, even though he was clearly a very poor lineman at this point in his career and uninterested in doing the work required to lose weight and improve.

Casserly in turn did not stop this nonsense of starting inferior players in loss after loss.

This staff is not being treated any worse than the Wand, Armstrong, Morency, Murphy, and Ragone type of players. Some of these guys deserved significant playing time/starting roles; others should have at least had a chance in some of our blowouts.

If the coaches and staff are PO'd, tough. They brought it on themselves.

El Tejano
12-14-2005, 03:28 PM
Again, there were needs to this team that weren't addressed for really bad reasons. Those neglections caused this team to set back. Charlie and Dom did this to themselves.

Coach C.
12-14-2005, 03:34 PM
I'd like to feel sorry for them, but I can't. The way Pendry abuses his power when he puts good players in a season long doghouse is inexcusable. These are young men who have one shot to make it in this league, and this sort of action can ruin a career. The average NFL career is around 3-4 years; if a player is black balled from playing in that time he may never get a chance to generate the film necessary to get interest from another team.

Capers did not stop this by allowing Pendry to start players such as Victor Riley every game possible, even though he was clearly a very poor lineman at this point in his career and uninterested in doing the work required to lose weight and improve.

Casserly in turn did not stop this nonsense of starting inferior players in loss after loss.

This staff is not being treated any worse than the Wand, Armstrong, Morency, Murphy, and Ragone type of players. Some of these guys deserved significant playing time/starting roles; others should have at least had a chance in some of our blowouts.

If the coaches and staff are PO'd, tough. They brought it on themselves.


Wand, Murphy, and Ragone dont play because they are not very good. Morency and Armstrong should get more touches, but they dont in our system it is just tough.

Kaiser Toro
12-14-2005, 03:34 PM
This article does have a McClain touch to it.

Grid
12-14-2005, 03:35 PM
:listening

boy.. the old saying goes "you cant please all the people, all the time".

but on this board its more like "you cant please all the people, ever... you will be lucky to please half"

get over it. In my opinion.. any semblance of respect that could have been maintained was lost when the Pbuch fiasco came to the surface. If you want to be treated like a professional..act like one.

Runner
12-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Wand, Murphy, and Ragone dont play because they are not very good. Morency and Armstrong should get more touches, but they dont in our system it is just tough.

Yes - that Riley upgrade sure turned out well. How do we know about Ragone? Would it have hurt this team's stellar record if he had played in any of the games we got blown out of early in the year? Heck, would it have hurt if he had played in a close game that we lost? Carr had 6 net yards passing in one game. I think Ragone may have approached that number, given a chance.

Frills
12-14-2005, 03:39 PM
The C's have humiliated the fans with what they put on the field this season...what goes around comes around

TexanAlmighty
12-14-2005, 03:44 PM
I just posted the article. I like what Mcnair did.:twocents:

Coach C.
12-14-2005, 03:48 PM
Yes - that Riley upgrade sure turned out well. How do we know about Ragone? Would it have hurt this team's stellar record if he had played in any of the games we got blown out of early in the year? Heck, would it have hurt if he had played in a close game that we lost? Carr had 6 net yards passing in one game. I think Ragone may have approached that number, given a chance.

In the NFL you play your starters. The backups escpecially Third Stringers see the field in worst case scenarios. Mainly Injury or if he proved in practice he should see more reps. Obviously neither did. The Riley move was assinine and it probably cost us 3 wins in itself. Wand has looked terrible when he has played this year.

Marcus
12-14-2005, 03:48 PM
The way Pendry abuses his power when he puts good players in a season long doghouse is inexcusable. These are young men who have one shot to make it in this league, and this sort of action can ruin a career. The average NFL career is around 3-4 years; if a player is black balled from playing in that time he may never get a chance to generate the film necessary to get interest from another team.

Do you mind elaborating on that? Who exactly is in Pendry's "doghouse" and why?

Coach C.
12-14-2005, 03:52 PM
Do you mind elaborating on that? Who exactly is in Pendry's "doghouse" and why?

How would he know he is not Pendry and does not work for the Texans. Honestly there are about a handful of people on this board that actually know what goes on with the Texans organization, meaning they work for, with, or are relatives of Texans people. I am not saying who and I am not claiming to be one of them, but let's remember that most of this is speculation.

Cjeremy635
12-14-2005, 03:54 PM
I just posted the article. I like what Mcnair did.:twocents:

I agree with what he did as well. It seems like a lot of people complain that he should fire C & C midseason or at the end, and when he brings in someone to truly asses the situation, you talk about how classless it was from an owner. That is just crappy as a fan. He could have fired them but instead he brought in someone to see them through to the end of the season while allowing them to finish their year out without the embarassment of being fired in stride. I personally think that Reeve's will have some role here next year, as what who know's, but it was a smart move to have someone here early enough to see how things are done and evaluate players in live game situations rather than just looking at tapes. I think this will turn out to help this team a lot next year. Here's to 06 baby!!!!! Go TEXANS.....:redtowel: :yahoo: :redtowel:

CoachV
12-14-2005, 03:58 PM
I have always felt that McNair was hearing different things from CC & DC.

The biggest priority he faces short term isn't the draft. It is whether or not David Carr is worth paying $8mm to keep or let him go. Even to McNair, that's a serious bunch of money.

I believe that he brought Reeves in because as a coach twice before he made trades to get a QB. Once to take Elway off the Colts hands and once to get Vick from San Diego. I think Reeves first consulting job ("looking at film" was your first indication) was to determine whether or not you fish or cut bait with David Carr.

Runner
12-14-2005, 04:02 PM
In the NFL you play your starters. The backups escpecially Third Stringers see the field in worst case scenarios. Mainly Injury or if he proved in practice he should see more reps. Obviously neither did. The Riley move was assinine and it probably cost us 3 wins in itself. Wand has looked terrible when he has played this year.

IMHO "1-12" and "worse case scenario" are nearly synonymous.

It is my point that some of our designated "starters" shouldn't be. Some of those throws to Bradford should have ended up in Armstrong's hands, for example. Armstrong is a good possesion receiver. Since we don't use a tight end for that purpose, maybe our coaches should look at using a WRs strengths to fill that role.

Also, when you are playing so badly and are behind by a lot of points in the fourth quarter, why not play people who might add a spark? I hate to think the only way a "starter" ever leaves the field is because of injury. Jeez, Mack would still be our running back and DD would be Morency if that were the case.

Terrible and horrible can bandied around a lot here, but some of these guys get to play a handful of downs spread over 3-4 games. Not the best way to bring out the best in anyone. As you said, the Riley move was assinine. He took a lot of starts and significant playing time away from someone who is better than him. Even if Wand isn't the greatest, he was better than Riley at left tackle. Wand also could have been on the same type of upswing that Pitts had in his first 2-3 years; however we'll never know because we played Victor Riley instead.

Runner
12-14-2005, 04:11 PM
How would he know he is not Pendry and does not work for the Texans. Honestly there are about a handful of people on this board that actually know what goes on with the Texans organization, meaning they work for, with, or are relatives of Texans people. I am not saying who and I am not claiming to be one of them, but let's remember that most of this is speculation.

Am I allowed to post speculation, or just you? For that matter, what do you know about me? There is no need to attack the poster. You say a lot of things with an absolute certainty that I doubt you have, but I don't think I've ever done anything except debate your conclusions or let them slide.

Why the hostility?

Coach C.
12-14-2005, 04:14 PM
Am I allowed to post speculation, or just you? For that matter, what do you know about me? There is no need to attack the poster. You say a lot of things with an absolute certainty that I doubt you have, but I don't think I've ever done anything except debate your conclusions or let them slide.

Why the hostility?

Runner I did not mean for you to feel attacked, I was just making a point. I think you usually think before you post and are relatively solid. Whether I agree or not does not matter you are entitled to your opinion. Man check my post I dont attack people just ask them to explain. Dont feel attacked man.

Runner
12-14-2005, 05:08 PM
Do you mind elaborating on that? Who exactly is in Pendry's "doghouse" and why?

I've posted some of that in other threads, and I don't think I'll go into it here right now. I pm'd you some links since you are interested. However, I thought I'd reprise one of my previous posts.


It is time for me to come clean.

Ok. I admit it. I've never watched a Texans game. However, I am a bit of an amateur cryptanalyst, and this is what I do. I glean what data I can from the following sources:

1) Texan talk over drinks
2) Water cooler discussion
3) Newspaper articles
4) Radio shows (I don't listen to any play-by-play)
5) TV news (but I don't watch the replays)
6) Discussion with various and sundry people who know something about the Texans
7) Texan message boards

I take this data and reconstruct what I think may have happened during the game in my head. I then comment on this reconstruction.

As an aside, there are those on this board who would make excellent cryptographers. Many posts do an excellent job of obfuscating what really happened in the game. Congratulations!

Bobo
12-14-2005, 06:18 PM
If you really think the NFL owners care at all what you think about how they run their teams...well, I have a bridge to sell you.

I don't think that's quite the case. If a majority of fans don't like a decision made by the owner, they may just not renew their season tix the following year. That would mean the blackout would be lifted and TV would be out -- killing the revenue streams from purchased TV advertising. As I've said previously, if the Texans hire Kubiak as HC, I would consider not renewing my season tix. If there are others out there who would do the same and there aren't enough folks there to replace them, the the owner is in for a tough time.

tulexan
12-14-2005, 06:21 PM
I don't think that's quite the case. If a majority of fans don't like a decision made by the owner, they may just not renew their season tix the following year.


Then a bunch of new people would buy those season tickets. There are plenty of people in this city who would love to have season tickets but don't. People not renewing their season tickets would just mean that there would be a different group of fans in the stadium, just not the ones who were their the past few seasons.

infantrycak
12-14-2005, 06:38 PM
This may be rare, but IMO bobo is right (sorry all the slavish coaching is just fine posts mandated the caveat)--owners generally and McNair in particular care about what the fans think. Doesn't mean they will slavishly follow whatever internet stupidity the herd is spouting, but they know at times moves have to be made for marketing/business/opinion of the fan purposes.

Bobo
12-14-2005, 06:57 PM
Then a bunch of new people would buy those season tickets. There are plenty of people in this city who would love to have season tickets but don't. People not renewing their season tickets would just mean that there would be a different group of fans in the stadium, just not the ones who were their the past few seasons.

To assume a NFL team will sell out their season tickets just because it's an NFL team is not a good assumption to make.

aj.
12-14-2005, 07:47 PM
Honestly there are about a handful of people on this board that actually know what goes on with the Texans organization, meaning they work for, with, or are relatives of Texans people. I am not saying who and I am not claiming to be one of them, but let's remember that most of this is speculation.

Dang, almost 2,000 active members and only a handful of people here actually know what's going on. Why have I been wasting my time here all these years?

Double Barrel
12-14-2005, 07:58 PM
Dang, almost 2,000 active members and only a handful of people here actually know what's going on. Why have I been wasting my time here all these years?

We need you here aj! You're one of the handful! ;)

alphajoker
12-14-2005, 08:01 PM
For the first time I was really surprised and disappointed at the actions of Bob McNair. I had considered him to be a first class type of guy. I have NO PROBLEM with the actions he took yesterday in hiring Reeves. As a matter of fact I am glad he took action. I have a lot of problems with the way he did it.

The thing is, he could have done all he did without humiliating both Casserly and Capers. No one outside of the organization even had to know he had hired a consultant at this time to evaluate everyone. If it leaked out, so be it. Let everyone speculate. They will anyway.

The whole NFL is watching. How would you feel about becoming the next group of coaches or general manager if you had witnessed yesterdays fiasco? He took both Capers and Casserely and held them up for public ridicule unnecessarily.

I thought both Casserly and Capers showed what kind of peple they really are. Can you imagine how difficult it must have been to sit through that conference? While I'm not happy with their job performance, they are both CLASS people and have my respect. As they both are still under contract to him they had no choice but to show up for the conference. How would you feel if you knew you were going to be fired but were ordered to show up for the public announcement. I would just tell him to stick it and walk out the door. Maybe that was the hoped for result.

I know some of you will say he did this to appease the fans. At this point all the tickets are still sold. He has plenty of time to right the ship before he will take a hit in the pocketbook. If you really think the NFL owners care at all what you think about how they run their teams...well, I have a bridge to sell you.

Like I said at the beginning: I have no problem with what he did. I think there were better ways to do it.

O.K., blast away.

sensei

Bob Sugar: It's not "show friends." It's show *business*.-Jerry Maguire

I'm all for it!!:fans:

Wolf
12-14-2005, 08:09 PM
Bob is getting a feel for the team NOW.. january is too late..

Reeves is here to do one thing

Is Carr the answer??? well we better know by draft time
Is DD the answer?? well we better know by draft time.

Is Casserly the answer?
McKinney?
Walker?
Payne


Reeves is here to say who is pulling weight and who isn't... As Jack Nicholson in "Batman" said.. " This team (town) needs and enama"

Bobo
12-14-2005, 08:12 PM
Bob is getting a feel for the team NOW.. january is too late..

Reeves is here to do one thing

Is Carr the answer??? well we better know by draft time
Is DD the answer?? well we better know by draft time.

Is Casserly the answer?
McKinney?
Walker?
Payne


Reeves is here to say who is pulling weight and who isn't... As Jack Nicholson in "Batman" said.. " This team (town) needs and enama"

I don't think Reeves is looking at the skill positions too much. DD is more than pulling his weight. Andre Johnson's place is settled and Carr has shown his ability to do well when given the opportunity to throw. It's the defense and o-line that is being read at this point.

aj.
12-14-2005, 08:29 PM
We need you here aj! You're one of the handful! ;)

Sorry... I just speculate and offer opinion (and the occasional smart *** remark) like the majority of people on here.

Double Barrel
12-14-2005, 09:35 PM
I don't think Reeves is looking at the skill positions too much.

And on what do you base this opinion? :confused: I haven't read anywhere on what, exactly, Reeves is giving Mr. McNair consultation.