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View Full Version : Justice puts the nail in Casserly's coffin...


mj.
12-10-2005, 05:28 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/3515657.html

Wow... Casserly is soooo fired.

My favorite line:
"Turns out, the Texans watched only four of Buchanon's 2004 games. McNair was flabbergasted."

Does anybody have Ron Wolf's cell number?
I can't wait for Texans 2.0!!!

HJam72
12-10-2005, 05:38 AM
I was just about to create this thread. I just read that column. It's about time for McNair to take control of this mess and I like the comments he made. At least his mistake has been too much hands off instead of too much hands on and I think he's gonna get this franchise going the right direction starting this off-season.

From reading that article, though, I don't get the feeling he's actually gonna fire Casserly.

Wonder how Buchannon feels about the publicity. :goodnight

Grid
12-10-2005, 05:58 AM
Great article.. I am glad McNair learned the hard lessons now.. im betting that McNairs new attitude will have as much, or more, of an impact on the success of this team in the future, than a new coach.

Id like to see Casserly replaced personally.. but Casserly's track record is pretty much 50/50.. and the big mistakes havent really popped up until recently. I can live with it if Casserly stays.. but if we go another year and it seems like none of the players we got over the offseason have made a difference... then Casserly needs to get the boot.

aj.
12-10-2005, 06:41 AM
If anything, that article tells me that Casserly will be staying. I can understand McNair not wanting to fire everybody (coaches and GM) and totally start over, especially if there are no qualified GMs available, but I truly believe Casserly is a major part of the problem and I dread going through another draft with him playing a major role.

What type of head coach will want to work for Cass? There's probably two answers. The first is the young coach who is getting his first shot at an NFL head coaching job. The second is a retread who is just glad to have a job. Hopefully McNair won't have to settle for the latter and is able to lure a top candidate here, but if Casserly is still here and on notice, what motivation is there for the new head coach to fall in line when he knows he may outlast the GM ... especially if McNair plays a major role and makes the final decision on the new head coach and the length of his contract?

The quote "You hear, 'Well, you haven't been in the NFL for 20 years, so you couldn't possibly know. That's not the way we do it in the NFL.' is vintage Casserly. I've heard him say that - in his classic snotty way - to callers on his radio show on SportsRadio 610 (back when there were callers to his show). I can't believe he had the audacity to say that to Mr. McNair.....well, on second thought, yes I can.

It's good to see that McNair isn't going to simply accept what the GM tells him any longer - if that's truly what's been happening. It's hard to determine whether some of the problems we are seeing are more a function of the GM or the coaching staff, but the fact is that Casserly has been the one with full accept and veto powers on player personnel up to this point, and in my opinion he is at least as responsible as Capers for this mess - if not more - especially when you factor in the number of draft choices given up for x player or the $$$ and length of contracts given to y player.

As far as Casserly's record being 50-50, check out his draft record and won-loss record when he didn't have Bobby Beathard or Joe Gibbs around him.

bckey
12-10-2005, 08:09 AM
I agree with AJ. If anything the article says Casserly is staying. To bad because he is part of the problem.

ArlingtonTexan
12-10-2005, 09:29 AM
It reads like the nail should be in his coffin.

Obviously, McNair did not come into the organization thinking that he was smarter than his football people, but at the same time he did not ask enough question as to why the football people were doing this thing or that thing. I am going to go out on limb and say that all of sudden Casserly will get smarter because of McNair will ask real questions.

nunusguy
12-10-2005, 09:48 AM
""We're five or six players away from being a good team," he said. "We're not that far away. We don't need to tear the whole structure down and start over."
************************************************** ****
I'll buy your analysis about being five or six players away from being a good
team Mr. McNair, but the conclusion that that means we aren't that far
away from being a good team (maybe playoff team), I'm not necessarily buying. One or two players away is close, but 5 or 6 maybe is not close and requires a couple years, especially if you're talking blue chippers at key positions.

HJam72
12-10-2005, 10:04 AM
OK, so maybe, just maybe we win 6 games next year and make the playoffs the year after that. I can live with that. I think 3 years is probably more like it at this point though.

alphajoker
12-10-2005, 10:32 AM
The quote "You hear, 'Well, you haven't been in the NFL for 20 years, so you couldn't possibly know. That's not the way we do it in the NFL." is vintage Casserly. I've heard him say that - in his classic snotty way - to callers on his radio show on SportsRadio 610 (back when there were callers to his show). I can't believe he had the audacity to say that to Mr. McNair.....well, on second thought, yes I can.

That quote was from McNair.

From the chronicle: "Some have misinterpreted his patience as complacency. In truth, no one appears to have learned more hard lessons this season than McNair himself. No one has been changed more.

"I'll be more hands-on in the future," he said. "I've observed for four years. When you're new, I think there's a feeling you have to do everything your football people tell you. You hear, 'Well, you haven't been in the NFL for 20 years, so you couldn't possibly know. That's not the way we do it in the NFL.'"

CowboysTexansFan
12-10-2005, 10:36 AM
That column exposed Casserly for the incompetent hack that he is. I can't imagine why McNair would not want to fire him, because the Buchanon trade is far from the only evidence we've seen that Casserly is in over his head. I guess McNair is not convinced he can get someone better. But after 4 years of Casserly, it's hard for me to imagine someone doing worse. Oh well.

Texans Pride
12-10-2005, 10:44 AM
Here is the key statement in the article for me:

We'll all know a lot more about McNair this time next year. He and Casserly appear to have begun work on a blueprint for 2006.
And meaning together, not Casserly you are fired.

edo783
12-10-2005, 10:45 AM
I suspect that CC will be on a VERY short leash and have a lot of conversation with McNair regarding EVERYTHING until the ship is righted. In business when things aren't going well you you take an active role, not making the decisions, but requiring answers about who, what & why until things right themselves. If the ones who are in charge of the who, what & why can't make the right decisions, you find new ones. I doubt that CC is gone, but he has 1-2 years to turn it or he is toast. With McNair more involved and asking questions, I suspect that we will be having a more CONVENTIONAL draft and free agency posture.

aj.
12-10-2005, 11:08 AM
That quote was from McNair.



I know that.

McNair's quote begins with "You hear..."

But the rest of the quote is what he's been hearing.

Now, who do you think McNair has been hearing that 'advice' from? Hint: Look about six inches above and to the left of this mark X. Next time I'll be more careful with the leading quotation mark and italics.

touttail
12-10-2005, 11:14 AM
I agree with AJ. If anything the article says Casserly is staying. To bad because he is part of the problem.

I too take it that Casserly is staying. They are talking about plans for the 2006 season. What a shame!

On PBurn, someone definitely didn't do their homework. How could you be in such a high position and be so lame??????

Bobby 119C:brickwall

Big B Texan Fan
12-10-2005, 11:26 AM
Here is the key statement in the article for me:

We'll all know a lot more about McNair this time next year. He and Casserly appear to have begun work on a blueprint for 2006.
And meaning together, not Casserly you are fired.
I was all excited until I read that fatal last sentence. If McNair is not the type to fire until season is over then this makes sense for them to start a 2006 blueprint because this is when planning for next season normally starts. It doesn't mean that CC goose isn't cooked though.

Only problem I see is who do we hire if we do fire CC. Sure there are a couple names out there but ae any of them any better than CC.

Stupid question, what about Jimmy Johnson as a GM. As long as we keep our cap strategist (I think his name is Ferens) all he has to do is scout talent and get them here. I know he doesn't want to leave the lovely confines of the FL coastline but if he does want back in then this would be a perfect opportunity.

HJam72
12-10-2005, 11:27 AM
I too take it that Casserly is staying. They are talking about plans for the 2006 season. What a shame!

On PBurn, someone definitely didn't do their homework. How could you be in such a high position and be so lame??????

Bobby 119C:brickwall

That's what keeps bugging me too. I just can't figure that out. They new there were bad rumors and they new they were giving up a lot to get him, so they put a half effort into checking him out and then pulled the trigger just in the nick of time, effectively letting what's-his-face from the Raiders rip them off and shooting themselves in the butt. Nice move guys. If I had those brains, I might get paid millions. :rolleyes:

nunusguy
12-10-2005, 11:48 AM
On PBurn, someone definitely didn't do their homework. How could you be in such a high position and be so lame??????

I dunno.....I do more homework when I buy a new TV set, these guys were
really playing fast and loose with the ole mans first day draft picks.
Anyway, McNair says we're 5 or 6 players away from being a "good team".
I'm thinking another tackle to go with Chester and a real TE for the offense,
and (assuming we go 4-3), we'd need a solid pass rushing DE, a MLB and
another decent corner across from D-Rob. But getting quality players at those
5 spots is probably 2 Drafts, unless we'd really score in FA this offseason.

TexasJedi
12-10-2005, 11:53 AM
Here is the key statement in the article for me:

We'll all know a lot more about McNair this time next year. He and Casserly appear to have begun work on a blueprint for 2006.
And meaning together, not Casserly you are fired.

This makes me wonder just how much of the light Mr. McNair has seen? I can understand his desire to not blow up everything, but can he not see that Cass is part of the problem and not the solution? This also makes me angry at Charley because it appears that his campaign to keep his job by shifting blame to Dom and his staff has succeeded. Casserly better be on the shortest of leashes, meaning if we do not make the playoffs, or at least win 8 or 9 games, next year then he must be sent packing.

Anybody looking forward to the draft now that it looks like Casserly will still be holding the reins? :eek:

Goldeagle
12-10-2005, 12:03 PM
Does anybody have Ron Wolf's cell number?
I can't wait for Texans 2.0!!!


That would be SWEET!

Honoring Earl 34
12-10-2005, 12:29 PM
:embarrass Does'nt like to tackle and can't cover WRs . Do you get the feeling all GM's line up to call CC when they need picks .

beerlover
12-10-2005, 12:31 PM
its a buisness and its suppose to be fun at the same time. I can't believe that Casserly is ever fun or that it makes good buisness sense to hang on to a GM who has had four years of high picks & top of the league spending budget in free agency to net a team thats 1-11.

wake-up and smell the :coffee:

ArlingtonTexan
12-10-2005, 12:45 PM
I dunno.....I do more homework when I buy a new TV set, these guys were
really playing fast and loose with the ole mans first day draft picks.
Anyway, McNair says we're 5 or 6 players away from being a "good team".
I'm thinking another tackle to go with Chester and a real TE for the offense,
and (assuming we go 4-3), we'd need a solid pass rushing DE, a MLB and
another decent corner across from D-Rob. But getting quality players at those
5 spots is probably 2 Drafts, unless we'd really score in FA this offseason.

It would take an unusaully great draft or some players performing better than they shown for it not to be a two or three year process. Honestly, I never though the Texans would be at this point in year four. i was more afraid of the Texans becoming one of those always mediocore teams who sneak into the playoffs, but never with a chance to go to the Superbowl or never sucking enough to get really high draft picks. In some ways this better, but only if the team makes good use of its high draft and FA choices.

Vinny
12-10-2005, 12:49 PM
McNair himself drops the hammer on Casserly in this very public manner but he seems to want to keep him based on the point and laugh writing style of Justice. We can't trust Richard Justice to be anything but the National Enquirer with his loose reporting of "facts" since he is as incompetant as Casserly. He is not much more than a gossip monger.

I've written that McNair cut corners in hiring a coaching staff, that he didn't allot enough money to hiring the best coaches.

McNair disputes this. He said the Texans have never lost a coach over money. He might have declined to hire a high-ticket coach, but the matter never came up.

"If someone had wanted me to pay an O-line coach more than we're paying a coordinator, I'd have said no," he said. "That was never presented to me. Every organization has a budget. Can you make exceptions? Yes, you can. I don't want our fans to think we've lost good coaches because we wouldn't pay the money. We haven't. We're not cheap. In terms of salaries, I think we're near the top of the NFL."

Almost Anybody
12-10-2005, 01:20 PM
I got two things out of that column.

1. Casserly is staying. (Talk about a misread from the thread author)
2. Buchanon will be released after the season.

eriadoc
12-10-2005, 01:25 PM
This is an absolutely Damning article. Four games??? Things like that make me shake my head and wonder why I'm not managing a team somewhere. I guess I always thought it was common sense to review every last bit of game tape you could on a player before you sign him to long deal or trade for him or draft him, etc. Wow. Just wow.

I've not been sold to this point that CAsserly needs to go, simply because Ibelieve he has brought in talent and the coaching staff has not gotten full production from it. In some cases, they haven't even gotten marginal production out of it. I still believe that to be the case. But the one area in which I have been critical of Casserly is the deals he's cooked up. For instance, I am not willing to give up on Babin, and I think he could be a very good player for years to come. But unless he turns out to be the next Kevin Greene, as he was billed, will he turn out to be worth all those picks? I doubt it. To me, that is where Casserly fails. In light of this new information, if he's not really doing his due diligence before making these questionable deals, then he needs to go. This tips the scales for me.

Is there any way I can sport two avatars? I'd like to steal AJ's and put it next to my pink soap.

Vinny
12-10-2005, 01:31 PM
I wonder how much game film the Texans looked at when we signed Greenwood, McKinney, and Todd Wade as our 'big' FA signings over the years....we also signed Stacey Mack, Kevin Mitchell and Charlie Clemmons to start here and when we cut those guys they couldn't make a NFL roster.

beerlover
12-10-2005, 01:39 PM
I believe a group of us from this board could do a superior job building the Texans than Casserly has done :texflag:

Almost Anybody
12-10-2005, 02:01 PM
I believe a group of us from this board could do a superior job building the Texans than Casserly has done :texflag:

Nope. We'd be a bunch of knee-jerking_asses from Eagle Pass. We'd be too Dan Snyderish. We wouldn't have it in us to take the "football fan" out of the decision making. Very bad for the team in the long run.


____________________________

cuppacoffee
12-10-2005, 02:04 PM
I got two things out of that column.

1. Casserly is staying. (Talk about a misread from the thread author)
2. Buchanon will be released after the season.

Funny how people can read the same article and come up with a different analysis.

1.) Casserly is gone. ( Condensed version of McNairs quote.) " I'll be more hands on in the future. I'll try to hire good people and allow them to do their jobs".

My interpretation is that Casserly is gone.

From Justices' column earlier in the week " McNair cut corners in hiring a coaching staff"....:confused:

I questioned this in one of the threads earlier this week.
McNair disputed this. I believe Mr McNair.

Quoting Justice from this mornings column. An opinion as far as I can ascertain.

"We'll all know a lot more about McNair this time next year. He and Casserly appear to have begun work on a blueprint for 2006".

I saw no mention from Mr McNair that he and Casserly were working on a blueprint.

To quote Vinny. "McNair himself drops the hammer on Casserly in this very public manner but he seems to want to keep him based on point and laugh writing style of Justice. We can't trust Richard Justice to be anything but the National Enquirer with his loose reporting of "facts" since he is as incompetant as Casserly. He is not much more than a gossip monger."

Much like message board participants, (me especially :) ) I believe that Justice injects a lot of personal opinion in his columns and just a little fact.

Given time to learn how the NFL operates, I believe that Mr McNair will turn the Texans into a great team/franchise. We just aren't there yet.


Doesn't mean that I am right either. jmho

cac: :coffee:

Honch Delgado
12-10-2005, 02:16 PM
This is the most startling quote, "We're not cheap. In terms of salaries, I think we're near the top of the NFL." Where are the players and coaches to show for it? Someone has to be held accountable for assembling NFL scrubs and overpaid mediocre talent and it should be Casserly.

Double Barrel
12-10-2005, 02:16 PM
I'm....flabbergasted... :mag:


For instance, McNair wasn't told Buchanon didn't like tackling people.

----------------

Nor was it mentioned to McNair that Buchanon had problems covering wide receivers, which can lead to real problems for a cornerback.

----------------

Turns out, the Texans watched only four of Buchanon's 2004 games. McNair was flabbergasted.

And so was our owner!!

Man, if I was Mr. McNair, I'd clean house! My opinion of Cassery just went south. FOUR FREAKIN' GAMES?!?!! WTF is that about?! Letting Al Davis, of all people, push you around?! Why not let Bud Adams get into the feeding frenzy?! Talk about owners not to listen to or let dictate your decisions!

How accurate is that? I mean, Justice isn't making that up, right? I'm assuming that the "Texans watched only four of Buchanon's 2004 games" line is from information provided by Mr. McNair, correct?

Man, I'm seriously shocked that such a "respected" GM in the NFL did so little research on a player. This is just pathetic. :brickwall

Almost Anybody
12-10-2005, 02:32 PM
How accurate is that? I mean, Justice isn't making that up, right? I'm assuming that the "Texans watched only four of Buchanon's 2004 games" line is from information provided by Mr. McNair, correct?

Until I read or hear or hear further, I'm going to question that accuracy big-time. Maybe you can't imagine Casserly or Buchanon reading that latest piece of Justice drivel, but I can. And I imagine McNair is going learn what the word "misquote" is today, if he hasn't already.

My daddy always told me not to believe everything I read in the paper. I think I'll take his advice today.:hmmm:

Almost Anybody
12-10-2005, 02:35 PM
I think that's what the Lats always said. Means, "buyer beware."

While I do not doubt Casserly's overall incompetence, and blame him for a lot of what ails us, I would be hesitant to buy this article as the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Reporters frequently take a quote, a series of quotes, or a snippet of information and extrapolate the whole thing seven times over to make their own story out of it. This "four games" crap could be the absolute truth or it could just be off-the-cuff hearsay overheard from the mouth of some intern in a bar.

Neither do I doubt McNair's commitment or ability to get the job done from the owner's box, but as I said, I wouldn't necessarily embrace this as a representation of all of the facts.

Good job in beating me to the punch with me thinking the same thing.:highfive:

FILO_girl
12-10-2005, 03:15 PM
I got two things out of that column.

1. Casserly is staying. (Talk about a misread from the thread author)
2. Buchanon will be released after the season.

Ditto.


Dear Mr. McNair,

Please find it in your heart to dig deep and REALLY think hard about keeping Cass. You have had 4 years to evaluate him, he didn't cut the mustard. It is time to cut the loss, lose the deadwood and unfortunately REBUILD the team from the top on down. This can not be done with Casserly involved, please note the current season as enough of an argument to justify my case. I do believe that you are an excellent owner and are truly wanting to be involved in the most positive way in creating a winning franchise that will be envied league-wide. But Casserly can not be a part of this.

Thank you,

One season ticket holder

ATX_Texan
12-10-2005, 03:18 PM
I sure hope this finally puts to rest this whole idea that Casserly is a draft genius. I cannot believe that any great GM would be so totally out of touch with what is going on with their team. First, we find that Casserly is not the master of the brillant pick for Babin. Somehow, Capers fooled him into making this move. Next, they tricked him into making the deal for PBuc. My question is do we need to find a Coach/GM since Casserly seems to avoid the draft like his prize cornerback avoids tackling. Finally, Casserly was shocked to find out that Capers almost canned Palmer during the off season. What exactly does Charlie do around the office? I know he is happy to tell the media about great he is, but what else he is actually responsible for?

stevo3883
12-10-2005, 03:20 PM
don't tease me like that, I thought for a second he was getting fired.

Wolf
12-10-2005, 04:01 PM
just for giggles I looked up P-buch draft report.
Phillip Buchanon
Position: Cornerback
College: Miami (Fla.)
Height: 5-10
Weight: 186
Hometown: Fort Myers, Fla.

Career Notes | Agility | High School | Personal | Stats



ANALYSIS
Positives: Compactly built athlete who stays tight with receivers on deep routes Has good play development recognition skills Keeps a tight relationship with the receiver in the open and despite his size, is very effective jamming the opponent at the line of scrimmage Can cover ground instantly with his closing burst Plays good angles and shows top-end speed Takes proper angles towards the ball and is willing to step up and fill the rush lanes Makes proper body adjustments turning and flexing for the ball Has the hip snap and body control to position himself low before delivering the hit Has an instant burst after fielding punts, showing excellent sideline awareness and patience waiting for his blocks to develop.

Negatives: Can stay with the receiver deep, but struggles to much to get his head turned to track the ball Needs to totally refine his backpedal, as he comes out too high with a choppy motion, causing him to lose quickness out of his breaks Hesitant to throw his body around when asked to step up and fill the rush lanes Plays too conservative and stays too deep in the zone, which makes him late in handling the switch-off Has very short arms and small hands for this position.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/buchanon_phillip.htm

Goldeagle
12-10-2005, 04:56 PM
:embarrass Does'nt like to tackle and can't cover WRs . Do you get the feeling all GM's line up to call CC when they need picks .


LOL

cuppacoffee
12-10-2005, 05:08 PM
I'm....flabbergasted... :mag:

And so was our owner!!

Man, if I was Mr. McNair, I'd clean house! My opinion of Cassery just went south. FOUR FREAKIN' GAMES?!?!! WTF is that about?! Letting Al Davis of all people, push you around?! Why not let Bud Adams get into the feeding frenzy?!



Titans rebuilt their team (well, almost :) ) at Casserly/Texans expense. :rolleyes:

Apr. 24, 2004: Traded second round pick (40th overall), third-round pick (71st overall), fourth-round pick (103rd overall) to Tennessee in exchange for first-round pick (27th overall); also exchanged fifth-round picks (138th to 159th overall).

I'm sure one of our more informed posters can remember who the Titans drafted with those picks ( surely no one we could have used) and who we drafted with the extra first we acquired. Probably an all-pro by now..:)

aj.
12-10-2005, 05:20 PM
...remember who the Titans drafted with those picks?

In the end, this is how it all worked out:

Texans Get
1st round, No. 27: Jason Babin, LB
6th round, No. 175: Jammal Lord, FS
7th round, No. 210: Raheem Orr, LB

Titans Get:
2nd round, No. 40: Ben Troupe, TE
3rd round, No. 71: Randy Starks, DT
4th round, No. 103: Bo Schobel, DE
5th round, No. 138 Jacob Bell, G

What may not be obvious is that the 5th rounder that the Texans got in the exchange w/TN (#159) was later traded to Jax for #175 and #210 (Lord and Orr). That worked out well, didn't it?

Starks by himself makes that trade a failure. But I'm sure he wouldn't have fit our system.

Texans_Chick
12-10-2005, 05:29 PM
I know a number of you are happy that McNair came out so publically, but I have to say I found this article worrisome.

Personally, I don't think it is helpful for the owner to come out and publically dump one of his players under contract in the grease and the managing staff in the grease. If you really don't like the work they have done, or have questions about the manner in which they are evaluating talent, then you do more action versus talk. Don't talk about the problems and point fingers. Either they are your guys or they are not. Don't just talk about it if you aren't happy, fire them.

All that talking publically does is feel emotionally good but 1. doesn't help actual winning and doing stuff; 2. limits your options.

It does very little good to publically take the legs out from under your staff if there is any chance those people are gonna stay. Once the finger pointing thing starts, then it is hard to focus on going forward, but people have to spend their energy on public blather. And even if you eventually fire those people, it means that the new staff knows that you are gonna be a meddling second guessing owner.

He could have made a lot of the same points (i.e. not being a cheapo owner), without specifically dumping people in the grease. It is not as satisfying to do that, but I am not sure that if you are trying to emulate the great teams in league, you are well served by finger pointing and telling the rest of the league that your GM is a rube.

And, as an aside, it is easy to overlearn lessons/mistakes. Does being more hands on owner mean you don't pull the trigger on trades fast enough, even if they are good ones?

You either trust your staff or you don't. Owners should try to keep focused on marketing and customer service and leave the football stuff to guys they trust. If you don't trust them in their football decisions, get people you do trust.

(As an aside, I trust Justice columns not at all. So I am skeptical about it).

JMO.:texflag:

SESupergenius
12-10-2005, 05:37 PM
Once again I have no idea how he worms his way into McNairs pocket. He reminds me of that freaky guy in one of the Lord of the Rings moviies where he's all whispering in the Kings ear telling him what to do. He's not done a great job with all that he's had and I've seen way to many excuses to cover his tracks from the get go to see anything different. With one draft he set us back 2 years. I now have more respect for Capers in at least trying guide this mess and take responsibility than a worm who can't .

Hottoddie
12-10-2005, 06:03 PM
Well, I guess someone has to step up & defend Casserly & I'm here to volunteer for the job.

First off, in my opinion, the GM has to work with the coach in regards to what players he needs to make his particular offensive/defensive system work. Any GM that chooses players without the coaches opinions weighing in heavily on the pick, is an *****.

Okay, it appears that Casserly made a huge mistake in trading for P-Buc. Not for being proactive & trying to fill a definite need with a young veteran player, but for being overly aggressive & not doing his homework on this trade. In other words, he trusted his scouting department's evaluation & didn't ask the right questions. McNair admits that he made the same mistake, & he owns the business (team).

Show me one GM in the entire history of the NFL, or any sport for that matter, that hasn't made a major blunder during his career, & I'll show you God himself. No GM can look at every snippet of film for every player & go over every bit of information by himself (he should try, though). He has to be able to depend on the people that work for him to make the correct evaluations. Ultimately though, because he's the boss over the scouting department, he gets all the credit & all the blame.

Al Davis has made his reputation by taking on misfits that no other team in the NFL would touch with a 10 foot pole. Does anyone know how many of those moves failed to work out? There's no doubt that P-Buc has the intangibles (speed/athleticism) to be a great CB someday. It's possible that he only needs the right coach to bring it out in him. Look what Bum was able to do with a bunch of players that wouldn't have made it on another team.

The only other real mistake that I believe Casserly made was taking Hollings with a 2nd round pick, with just 4 games of experience. Mind you, those 4 games were spectacular & if he had developed, Casserly would've looked like a genious for taking him with what looked like a late 2nd round pick at the time. Who could've foreseen Oakland's collapse?

I truely believe that the Babin pick was pushed by Capers. Since I'm just like everyone else on this board, in that I have no clue what went on in the war room, I'm going to assume that Capers told Casserly to do whatever it took to get Babin. And, Casserly did just that. It's not cheap trading back into the 1st round. Now, while Babin hasn't taken the league by storm, he has shown that he's got the talent to be a very good OLB someday. In my opinion, he needs to increase his upper body strength & develop some strong moves to the QB. That's where the coaches come in. The kid has the quickness to get around almost any RT, but he keeps getting tied up by them & the TE's.

Okay, let's take a look at the drafts that Casserly has had. In 4 drafts, CC has drafted 39 players (this includes Hollings & Milford Brown as supplemental picks). Of those 39 players, 29 of them are still in the NFL as a player in some capacity. That's 74% of the players he's drafted. 26 of them are on the Texan's roster & 20 of those players have either been starters, or contributors in the playing rotation at some point in their careers. That's 51% of the players that have contributed in some way. Of the remaining 3 players (Henson, Baxter, & S.Thomas), Baxter has started for the Texans & Arizona, while Henson & Thomas are just reserves.

Let's take a look at where the GM & scouting departments really make their marks, the 5th-7th rounds. Casserly has drafted 19 players in these rounds & 11 of them (Baxter, R.Walker, Faggins, Henson, Pearce, J.Lord, C.Anderson, S.Thomas, Hodgdon, C.C.Brown, & Pettway) are still in the NFL. That's 58%. 7 of those players (Baxter, R.Walker, Faggins, Pearce, C.Anderson, Hodgdon, & C.C. Brown) are, or have been, starters at some point.

It's not like Casserly isn't a good GM, he's just made some moves that many of us just disagree with. The one move that sticks out most in my mind is drafting B.J.Symons in the 7th round of the 2004 draft, when we had Carr, Banks, & Ragone on the roster. We didn't need another passing QB to groom, when we had a line that couldn't pass block to save their lives (err..., Carr's life). We needed OL or DL help in the worst way. One player that I'd been touting was Jordan Carstens (6'5" 300lbs. DT). He had all the intangibles (size, strength, quickness) & did well at the combine. He would've been a much better pick than Symons. Unfortunately, he went undrafted & was signed as an undrafted rookie by Carolina. He's now, their starting RDT & has 25 tackles/3 sacks for the year. By the way, Carolina at 9-3, is tied for the 3rd best record in the NFL this year.

Anyway, even with the mistakes he has made, I believe that Casserly is a good GM & should be retained for at least one more year. But, that's just my opinion.

Coach C.
12-10-2005, 06:35 PM
Ok so his good picks outweigh the bad ones and the talent that was or was not given up. Ok I am with you, but mainly because I doubt Casserly is gone. Just a tad bit of info though Scouting departments earn their money in every round. Mainly 2-3 and 5-7.

Texans_Chick
12-10-2005, 06:46 PM
Ok so his good picks outweigh the bad ones and the talent that was or was not given up. Ok I am with you, but mainly because I doubt Casserly is gone. Just a tad bit of info though Scouting departments earn their money in every round. Mainly 2-3 and 5-7.

Justice apparently thinks Casserly is staying. From the article:

No matter what McNair does with coach Dom Capers (he goes) or general manager Charley Casserly (he stays), the first four years have served as a learning experience for the owner, too.

Hervoyel
12-10-2005, 07:35 PM
If anything, that article tells me that Casserly will be staying. I can understand McNair not wanting to fire everybody (coaches and GM) and totally start over, especially if there are no qualified GMs available, but I truly believe Casserly is a major part of the problem and I dread going through another draft with him playing a major role.

To date I've been in the fire Capers and let Casserly have another shot camp but I have to admit that an article like this makes me think again on that subject. I agree with you about the hesitation McNair apparently feels in cleaning house completely and I understand it too. I can't help but think that this time next year or the year after we might be seeing Casserly leaving and reading an article about how Bob McNair now knows that he should have been more thorough cleaning house back in 2006.


What type of head coach will want to work for Cass? There's probably two answers. The first is the young coach who is getting his first shot at an NFL head coaching job. The second is a retread who is just glad to have a job. Hopefully McNair won't have to settle for the latter and is able to lure a top candidate here, but if Casserly is still here and on notice, what motivation is there for the new head coach to fall in line when he knows he may outlast the GM ... especially if McNair plays a major role and makes the final decision on the new head coach and the length of his contract?

That's another thing. I want Jimmy Johnson and his name comes up all the time. Now regardless of whether or not that's even a possibility or he's even interested in talking about coming back to the NFL I have real concerns that the kind of coach that JJ represents will have no interest in trying to coexist with Charlie Casserly. I think Bill Parcells might be able to coexist with someone like Jerry Jones because Jerry Jones is the owner of hte team but I don't doubt for a second that he wouldn't be interested in putting up with Casserly. That kind of dominant and previously successful coach is going to be out of the question with Casserly here.

The quote "You hear, 'Well, you haven't been in the NFL for 20 years, so you couldn't possibly know. That's not the way we do it in the NFL.' is vintage Casserly. I've heard him say that - in his classic snotty way - to callers on his radio show on SportsRadio 610 (back when there were callers to his show). I can't believe he had the audacity to say that to Mr. McNair.....well, on second thought, yes I can.[/b]

Yeah I can see him saying that to McNair and in these first few years I can see McNair accepting that answer. Bob McNair was well aware of his lack of knowledge and he let the football people do the football things. He's not stupid though and Casserly is going to find out that as soon as McNair works some of these things out he's going to hold Casserly accountable. McNair expects results and Casserly hasn't given him any. It's just a matter of time now which is a shame because it's going to set us back another year or two.

It's good to see that McNair isn't going to simply accept what the GM tells him any longer - if that's truly what's been happening. It's hard to determine whether some of the problems we are seeing are more a function of the GM or the coaching staff, but the fact is that Casserly has been the one with full accept and veto powers on player personnel up to this point, and in my opinion he is at least as responsible as Capers for this mess - if not more - especially when you factor in the number of draft choices given up for x player or the $$$ and length of contracts given to y player.

As far as Casserly's record being 50-50, check out his draft record and won-loss record when he didn't have Bobby Beathard or Joe Gibbs around him.

This one article has done more to swing me around to an anti-Casserly stance than anything I've read up until now.

MorKnolle
12-10-2005, 07:38 PM
[QUOTE=Double Barrel]

Titans rebuilt their team (well, almost :) ) at Casserly/Texans expense. :rolleyes:


FYI the Titans are far from done rebuilding. In their current state, they will be something like $22 million over the cap next year so they will need to do some major restructuring of deals or else cut a bunch of people for the second summer in a row, plus Steve McNair is due a $27 million roster bonus later this offseason so he will also have to restructure or be cut.

HoustonFan
12-10-2005, 08:07 PM
Good article. After reading about Buchanon not wanting to tackle, I don't think Buchanon is in the right business. This was definitely a bad deal. Nice scouting job, Casserly.

Do the damn thing next season, McNair. Alot of us on here are looking for this team to win alot, make the playoffs, and win some championships just as much as you do.

GO TEXANS!!!!

alphajoker
12-10-2005, 08:28 PM
I know that.

McNair's quote begins with "You hear..."

But the rest of the quote is what he's been hearing.

Now, who do you think McNair has been hearing that 'advice' from? Hint: Look about six inches above and to the left of this mark X. Next time I'll be more careful with the leading quotation mark and italics.

Yeah, you're probably right....it's a shame that McNair had to learn the intracacies of the NFL the hard way. However, I suspect and hope that his new more "hands on" approach will help get this organization turned around.:texflag:

Hervoyel
12-10-2005, 10:24 PM
Good article. After reading about Buchanon not wanting to tackle, I don't think Buchanon is in the right business. This was definitely a bad deal. Nice scouting job, Casserly.

Doesn't this just jump out at you. How in the world do you get to be anybodys first round draft choice when you don't like to tackle and shun contact? How do you get to play at the U in Miami if you don't like to tackle?

I'm mystified by this. The only thing stranger than the U signing him and Oakland drafting him is the Texans trading for him.

Well maybe that and Charlie Casserly still being talked about as if he wasn't going to get fired for doing it. That's a mystery right there.

done88
12-10-2005, 11:30 PM
Replace both with one. A head coach/GM. Sat a former Dallas coach living it up in Miami.

cuppacoffee
12-11-2005, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE=cuppacoffee]

FYI the Titans are far from done rebuilding. In their current state, they will be something like $22 million over the cap next year so they will need to do some major restructuring of deals or else cut a bunch of people for the second summer in a row, plus Steve McNair is due a $27 million roster bonus later this offseason so he will also have to restructure or be cut.

:penalty:..Kinda thought that this covered the Titans rebuilding
>> (well, almost :) )

They have rebuilt enough to kick our sorry arses though....:dangit:

Concerning McNair, it wouldn't suprise me if the Titans find a way to draft Leinart or Young this year. If Young decides to enter the draft.


cac: :coffee:

OzzO
12-11-2005, 01:54 PM
For his first few years in a new business, I'm not surprised he relied on others to make the decisions as he may have thought that he didn't know "how it works in the NFL" - betcha he's getting more input now from his peers though, especially after a few off season owner meetings and finding out how it does work.

.. and maybe it's JJ as GM and Kubiak as HC?

BigDTexansFan
12-11-2005, 03:22 PM
Here is the key statement in the article for me:

We'll all know a lot more about McNair this time next year. He and Casserly appear to have begun work on a blueprint for 2006.
And meaning together, not Casserly you are fired.


I think Casserly stays in what position I am not sure, could be as football consultant with someone else in GM's spot. BUT I predict won't be anymore magic beans for cow trades, I predict you better know what this guy just had for lunch before you tell Mr. McNair to trade for him. I think we could see an immediate turnaround with right coach and a few good players. :texflag:

JmikeT
12-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Does it occur to any of you "Fire Casserly" that the GM roll is about getting the personnel that the coaching staff requests. Casserly's ultimate failure is his ability to get the players that the coaches wanted.
FIRE THE COACHES hire JEFF FISCHER and the rest will sort itself out.

eriadoc
12-11-2005, 05:17 PM
Does it occur to any of you "Fire Casserly" that the GM roll is about getting the personnel that the coaching staff requests. Casserly's ultimate failure is his ability to get the players that the coaches wanted.
FIRE THE COACHES hire JEFF FISCHER and the rest will sort itself out.

The GM's role is slightly more involved than you make it sound. It is the GM's job to acquire talent. I actually do not think Casserly has done a poor job of that, given that the coaches have horribly misutilized the talent they've been given (here I'm agreeing with you). However, you don't go out and pay a king's ransom for that talent. You pay appropriate prices for pieces that fit the puzzle. Sometimes that means you pass up Orlando Pace, because, while he may be the best LT available in a given free agent class, he just costs too darn much. It also means that you don't give up a slew of picks for a DE from a small college that you think you can convert to an OLB that might turn out to be the next Kevin Greene. IF Babin lives up to that billing, then he might be worth that price. If he simply turns out to be a pretty good OLB, which I suspect will be the case, then he was not a bad talent acquisition, but entirely too much was paid for him. Couple that with a humongous price for a guy that they watched FOUR game films on, and Buchanon would have to turn into the next Dunta Robinson to warrant that price.

That is why most people are chanting "Fire Casserly".

Porky
12-11-2005, 05:19 PM
Pburnt's weaknesses were well documented in Oakland. It's not as if watching 10 games instead of 4 would have magically unearthered his lack of physicalality. Heck, any guy with a recliner and a beer could have told you Pburnt was toasted more often than a blushing bride at the champagne fountain. Oh he is so much better than Aaron Glenn. I am realy angry that this failure of a GM is going to get more chances at wrecking this team. Mr. Mcnair, bite the bullet now. Get rid of this incompectence. You say nobody better is available...how do you know this unless your last name is Kreskin. Give a young guy a shot...give someone like JJ a shot at both spots, do something in between. I don't care...but do something! I do not want Cass in the war room on draft day. That would be an unmitigated disaster. If he is there, I may make plans to do something better with my time on Sundays come next fall.

cuppacoffee
12-11-2005, 05:34 PM
Pburnt's weaknesses were well documented in Oakland. It's not as if watching 10 games instead of 4 would have magically unearthered his lack of physicalality. Heck, any guy with a recliner and a beer could have told you Pburnt was toasted more often than a blushing bride at the champagne fountain. Oh he is so much better than Aaron Glenn. I am realy angry that this failure of a GM is going to get more chances at wrecking this team. Mr. Mcnair, bite the bullet now. Get rid of this incompectence. You say nobody better is available...how do you know this unless your last name is Kreskin. Give a young guy a shot...give someone like JJ a shot at both spots, do something in between. I don't care...but do something! I do not want Cass in the war room on draft day. That would be an unmitigated disaster. If he is there, I may make plans to do something better with my time on Sundays come next fall.

Yes........Do something! Anything! . How could it possibly be worse.

eriadoc
12-11-2005, 06:33 PM
Pburnt's weaknesses were well documented in Oakland. It's not as if watching 10 games instead of 4 would have magically unearthered his lack of physicalality.

I'm sure they dug up four game tapes in which Buchanon played well. The guy does have a few TDs in his short career to this point. It's not hard to find good games for most players and if you can sell that small sample size as a good deal, Casserly will bite ;)

Hottoddie
12-11-2005, 06:53 PM
Hehehe, you people crack me up. :dontknowa :rolleyes:

El Tejano
12-11-2005, 09:01 PM
I feel alot better knowing our owner does not like what he sees and wants to change things up.

keyfro
12-12-2005, 12:36 AM
with all that's been said about buchanan i can't imagine he'll be back next year...and with the limited amount of solid FA corners on the market i'm sure we'll be using a first day pick on a corner...obviously a local favorite would be griffin from UT who unlike buchanan is not afraid of a little contact...and if the texans were to trade down(highly unlikely) there is always the possibility of selecting jimmy williams of va. tech

dalemurphy
12-12-2005, 02:09 AM
with all that's been said about buchanan i can't imagine he'll be back next year...and with the limited amount of solid FA corners on the market i'm sure we'll be using a first day pick on a corner...obviously a local favorite would be griffin from UT who unlike buchanan is not afraid of a little contact...and if the texans were to trade down(highly unlikely) there is always the possibility of selecting jimmy williams of va. tech


While the Buchanan trade was certainly a bad one, it wasn't the worse deal. We did get a very talented player without having to pay anything for him for a cap number- and basically we got him for two years, unless someone signs him as a restricted free agent (unlikely)... so, from that perspective it was a risk that made some sense.

I've definitely lost confidence in Casserly. However, it is comforting to know that the owner isn't one eager to create massive change everytime things go wrong (Dan Snyder)... It is that kind of patience that often gets rewarded. His thoughtfulness makes the head coaching job and eventually the GM job more appealing to potential applicants. After all, who would you rather work for?

Ibar_Harry
12-12-2005, 02:09 AM
I probably have a different take on this article based on what I have been saying for a long time. To begin with the article does imply that McNair and Casserly are starting to form a new blueprint. Now why would he keep Casserly as so many of you have said would be the wrong thing to do?

My belief, including the Buchannon deal, is that the exsisting coaching staff totally mislead everyone including Casserly. Casserly believed his coaches had done the due dilligence. That is implied in the article. The coaching staff evaluates and makes suggestion as to whom they want. They pass that on to Casserly and he negoiates and tries to get what they want if it is seems justified and possible. Casserly and McNair both trusted Capers. However, Capers wanted a certain kind of team and McNair and Casserly handed him a number of players that didn't fullfill his dreams. The two most notiable people were Carr and Davis. That hamstringed Capers and he retreated into a corner and tried to go against the grain and dig himselft out of a perceived hole by following the advice of his trusted friends. Pendry was the biggest of them all. I don't think Casserly and McNair were totally sold on what Capers wanted to do and he took a course to prove them wrong and was in reality defying what they wanted him to do. Capers and Pendry sold McNair and Casserly a bill of goods on the O-line after McNair stated what he did that fateful December about protecting Carr. It makes no sense whatsoever to see what we have seen with the O-line and little if any change except for the blocking scheme. The year 2 injuries also played a big part in what has happened because Capers found his vetern defense falling apart due to injuries and this played into the Buchannon deal, I believe, because they got very nervous over the two years of injuries sustained by Glenn. I believe other key veterns had made comments and Capers saw to it that they were no longer a problem when perhaps they began blowing the whistle long ago. I have stated time and time again that Capers and his coaching staff have been the insurmountible problem causing the devestation of the Texans.

It is Capers and his staff and the power plays within that staff that have lead to what you have seen with the Texans. This is my belief based on outside observations and comments over time. I'm convinced more than ever now that McNair has gone public. The only thing that makes any sense at all, once again, is that the coaching staff totally mislead management meaning McNair and Casserly.

Scott D
12-12-2005, 02:43 AM
It is Capers and his staff and the power plays within that staff that have lead to what you have seen with the Texans. This is my belief based on outside observations and comments over time. I'm convinced more than ever now that McNair has gone public. The only thing that makes any sense at all, once again, is that the coaching staff totally mislead management meaning McNair and Casserly.

I tend to agree with you.

Napa Auto Parts
12-12-2005, 02:47 AM
I truely hope we get rid of Casserly he's a joke of a gm i laugh when ever i listen to him on 610 trying to push all the blame away from him. or trying to make a bad trade sound alright with the well its extra picks we had line.

Texans_Chick
12-12-2005, 06:26 PM
On 610 this morning, John Granato was talking about the Justice article. He talked to Casserly about it.

Casserly told Granato that NO it was not true that they only looked at 4 game tapes and had no idea how that got into the Justice article. That they were aware of Pbuc's strengths and weaknesses, saw how he had played in Miami and how he performed in Oakland, and it was the opinion of the staff that 1. they needed a coverage guy and 2. that the defects could be helped with coaching.

And that they made a mistake in making that assessment.



So, all that being said, this means either:

1. Justice got his facts wrong. Casserly said that Justice did not interview him for the article.

Or

2. McNair got his facts wrong. If so, that is a bad communication issue.

OR

3. Casserly is fibbing.

One way or another, that is one bizarro article by Justice. McNair dumping his trash in the paper about a current player doesn't help stuff , limits your options and probably isn't good for team morale.


AJ might be right in stating that McNair is trying to provoke Casserly into resigning--with the Justice article and the Reeve's hiring. But who knows, maybe what he is saying is really what he means about this stuff. That he really wants to get a fresh set of eyes to improve the Texans way of doing things.

aj.
12-12-2005, 07:19 PM
If you're a senior executive and you find out that a consultant has been hired to review your organization - and you find out on the same day as a press conference announcing the fact, and the consultant knows before you do - you're toast. This isn't the same as a BOD review of a CEO or internal audit, or external audit for that matter because external audit typically is done with the knowledge of the auditee, i.e., no surprises. This reeks of an external hire coming in to get a head start - and not as head coach.

I'm just a little surprised how it's being handled, as I'm sure Casserly is. I don't think McN is the kind of guy who would play games wrt the provocation comment which makes it all even more curious. Timing appears to be a key factor otherwise the 'review' would have started after the season was over instead of after Week 14.

Hervoyel
12-12-2005, 07:26 PM
I'm just a little surprised how it's being handled, as I'm sure Casserly is.

We've spent the past four or so years with a case of the warm fuzzies when it comes to Bob McNair. We seem to have overlooked one important item on his resume.

"NFL Owner"

Taking that into account I find myself much less surprised.

Hervoyel
12-12-2005, 07:30 PM
And for the record I don't believe for a second that Justice made a mistake in that article. I think he probably nailed it hard and knew that while some of the facts in that article would be denied they wouldn't be disputed any harder than they are right now. Even if Casserly gets fired nobody is going to be suing anyone over that story. I bet Justice wouldn't have written it if he couldn't prove it or bring someone to the table who could.

nunusguy
12-12-2005, 08:00 PM
Timing appears to be a key factor otherwise the 'review' would have started after the season was over instead of after Week 14.
Another issue that's looming on the horizon is whether or not to re-up Carr,
and lately McNair may not be feeling so confidant about his fair-haired boy.
And as I recall, Reeves knows what a successful NFL QB looks like. Maybe McNair is looking for some timely advice on that subject, since he's got to decide by year end. That subject is a very big part of this teams future from a personnel perspective. Bush isn't the only Trojan going into the NFL next year.

TexanExile
12-12-2005, 08:52 PM
Maybe Casserly will hold an unexpected presser tomorrow and announce that he's resigning in the middle of the season because he misses his family. And that it is totally, completely, 100 percent his own decision and has nothing to do with what's going on around him on the team. Or about the senior league man within his organization who's charged with evaluating his every move.

Oh, wait. That was Stan Van Gundy. Never mind.

Story about Stan's totally personal decision that had nothing to do with Pat Riley AT ALL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2256435)

Double Barrel
12-12-2005, 08:59 PM
We've spent the past four or so years with a case of the warm fuzzies when it comes to Bob McNair. We seem to have overlooked one important item on his resume.

"NFL Owner"

Taking that into account I find myself much less surprised.

BAM! Nail on the head.

We've only put Mr. McNair on a pedestal because he brought football back to H-town, and he's been a fairly quite dude. There's not much to not like about him, as far as his public personae.

But you're right. Not only is he an NFL owner, but he's also a self made billionaire. And people don't become that successful by being niiiiiiiiiiiice and roasting marshmellows at board meetings. I bet he's fire more people that we can shake a stick at, and we're seeing how the corporate world deals with things.

It's cutthroat, and there's no bye-bye ceremony. I guess Capers (and maybe Casserly) are lucky in that Mr. McNair didn't do it mid-season (I'm betting it's too much like a Bud Adams move is the reason).

Good take, Herv, and definitely puts things into perspective.

Erratic Assassin
12-13-2005, 07:35 PM
The quote "You hear, 'Well, you haven't been in the NFL for 20 years, so you couldn't possibly know. That's not the way we do it in the NFL.' is vintage Casserly. I've heard him say that - in his classic snotty way

That's exactly why we have Dan Reeves. Casserly is still wet behind the ears compared to Dan Reeves. When Dan Reeves, says "Hey dummy! Ever thought of drafting some decent linemen?" Casserly won't be able to use his standard comeback to deflect criticism of his *****ic draft picks.

nunusguy
12-13-2005, 08:08 PM
To me, one of the most impressive things in McNair's resume is that he went
head-to-head with Lay, Schilling, et al. at Enron when that corporate
giant was at its apex and walked away with a billion plus for the sale of
his energy Cogeneration business to Enron. I think right now, McNair is in his element as he wells & deals to get this organization back on track and headed
in the right direction.