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View Full Version : Worst off-season move so far?


stevo3883
12-05-2005, 11:53 AM
I'm leaning towards the Buchanon trade. terrible, just terrible. it makes no sense. The worst defense in the league, trying desperatly to get rid of this guy... doesnt that give you some clues on his play?

maybe this off-season, we should pick up ahmad carroll, I hear he has major upside! we can cut d-rob as he is too old and his contract isnt cap friendly (we need a nice big 10+million cap buffer zone, incase we want to release AJ to make room for Bradford's new 7 yr $55million contract thats in the works)

Pbuc on 1 guy, Carroll on the other. 2 shut down corners... I would be in heaven

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 11:57 AM
In attempt to turn this back into a more serious thread, I'd rate the Babin move as the worst. I can't say for sure yet that drafting Babin at all was a mistake, but trading off 3 (or 4?) picks to get him when he almost for sure would have been there for our next pick was horrible. We essentially gave the Titans four picks for us to gain nothing, and we had to pay Babin a little more as a first round pick than we would have after taking him in the second round.

F-minus67
12-05-2005, 12:01 PM
I'd say releasing Glenn was the worst, we can all see that he was the leader in the secondary. And now we know that P-Buc doesn't have his head in the game.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 12:07 PM
All of these deals have been pretty rotten, and I was really hoping for DJ last year. Greenwood did get a very small signing bonus ($800k I think) though so we could cut him with little or no adverse effect ($600k cap hit next year) if we decided to do so.

Bullfan
12-05-2005, 12:17 PM
How about declaring Wand unathletic and signing Victor Riley to replace him?

The O-line has been playing s-o-o much better this season with out Wand:sarcasm

JDizzle
12-05-2005, 12:29 PM
I voted for the Babin pick. Giving up that many picks in such a deep class didn't seem like a good idea, even in the moments immidiately after it happened. I felt at the time we could have gotten a TE and an OLB capable of starting - or at least producing and contributing. It's an even worse move now since Babin hasn't done squat and Joppru's career as a football player isn't looking too bright.

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 12:35 PM
Boselli and Carr could be nominees as well.

infantrycak
12-05-2005, 12:50 PM
All of these deals have been pretty rotten, and I was really hoping for DJ last year. Greenwood did get a very small signing bonus ($800k I think) though so we could cut him with little or no adverse effect ($600k cap hit next year) if we decided to do so.

Greenwood got a $7 mil signing bonus. He isn't going anywhere for a couple more years at least.

Honch Delgado
12-05-2005, 12:51 PM
Gotta go with Babin with Buchanan a close 2nd. Babin was supposed to be the solution to our inept pass rush but to give up 3 picks to get him, he needs to put up big numbers and plays to justify it.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 01:01 PM
Greenwood got a $7 mil signing bonus. He isn't going anywhere for a couple more years at least.

I must have been misinformed then. I was surprised that a $22 million salary would only have a $800k signing bonus.

SESupergenius
12-05-2005, 01:31 PM
wow, I look at all these moves listed and can't fathom Casserly being back here next year with so many bad picks on his watch.

Exascor
12-05-2005, 01:42 PM
I went with the Buchanon move. He was a known problem that hadn't lived up to his talent. We give up 2 first day picks...brilliant. That said, I'd bet that Hoke had more than a little influence on that decision.

A minor correction: We didn't release Foley. He was a FA that decided to move on like Posey. Still sucks that our staff couldn't see what he could do when not in a Fangio D.

V Man
12-05-2005, 01:44 PM
In attempt to turn this back into a more serious thread, I'd rate the Babin move as the worst. I can't say for sure yet that drafting Babin at all was a mistake, but trading off 3 (or 4?) picks to get him when he almost for sure would have been there for our next pick was horrible. We essentially gave the Titans four picks for us to gain nothing, and we had to pay Babin a little more as a first round pick than we would have after taking him in the second round.

We could have gotten 3 solid players (possibly 2 starters TE and O-line with smart picks), but we got a project player who doesn't even start.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 01:50 PM
We could have gotten 3 solid players (possibly 2 starters TE and O-line with smart picks), but we got a project player who doesn't even start.
And the worst part is we could have gotten that project player with our second round pick anyways without having to trade anything off.

V Man
12-05-2005, 01:54 PM
And the worst part is we could have gotten that project player with our second round pick anyways without having to trade anything off.

Don't think I would've taken him there either. Would rather have had Ben Troupe there.

stevo3883
12-05-2005, 02:00 PM
Boselli and Carr could be nominees as well.


only room for 10 options. I could go all day with things that didnt pan out.

taking Gaffney 33rd overall
signing Todd Wade big contract
Drafting Carr is iffy... it was either him or harrington
taking bennie joppru over jason witten
signing riley
keeping bradford with guys like burress & muhammed out there


the bad moves easily outweight the good ones

edo783
12-05-2005, 02:27 PM
PBuc because he really can't play and Babin can play, just doesn't seem to be worth the number of picks.

Wharton
12-05-2005, 03:12 PM
I voted for the Sharper release as the biggest screwup due to the lack of leadership now on the squad. But, all the options here qualify as bonehead moves, you can pretty much take you pick.

Nice list of screwups by the front office. Given this list, JJ may be right, in the fact that Charlie is more to blame the Capers. But, personally I would like to see both men go.

HJam72
12-05-2005, 03:25 PM
I'm hoping that a new coaching staff will cause some of these people to play better, but I still wish Casserly would take a hike. I voted for the Buchannon deal because he's SUCH A SERIOUS BUST, but those deals are all terrible.

Sarg01
12-05-2005, 03:35 PM
I went with the DJ pass, since that would have in whole or in part mitigated two of your other blunders - releasing Sharper and signing Greenwood. In fact, at the time, I took the Sharper move as a telegraph from Cass that DJ or Thomas Davis were locks as our draft choice.

I did consider the Glenn pretty seriously, because that was a double screw up as well. However, our front 7 were already kind of a joke before the offseason.

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 03:43 PM
Boselli and Carr could be nominees as well.
Oh look an I hate Carr comment - Hey is that you in the picture? A Texas fan? No wonder you sound upset. I am an Aggie fan, I'm used to losing.

This one was hard, between not taking DJ so we could take a bench warmer in TJ or giving our division rival and former heartache a boat load of picks to help in there rebuild process, I must admit I am perplexed.

My vote would still have to go to the TJ pick. A non starting undersized DT who makes more money than what a back up should make. If we needed depth we should have kept Deloch or Martin. Would have been cheaper.

rmartin65
12-05-2005, 03:47 PM
The Babin move was pretty bad. 3 players for an underacheiving guy? Its close.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 03:50 PM
Oh look an I hate Carr comment - Hey is that you in the picture? A Texas fan? No wonder you sound upset. I am an Aggie fan, I'm used to losing.

This one was hard, between not taking DJ so we could take a bench warmer in TJ or giving our division rival and former heartache a boat load of picks to help in there rebuild process, I must admit I am perplexed.

My vote would still have to go to the TJ pick. A non starting undersized DT who makes more money than what a back up should make. If we needed depth we should have kept Deloch or Martin. Would have been cheaper.
We did keep DeLoach but he hasn't been active for most games. I will agree that passing on DJ was bad, but in this poll I still have to take Babin. Drafting him with our original second rounder would have still put him on this poll, but giving away three picks that we didn't even need to give up to get him just adds to it.

Coach C.
12-05-2005, 03:53 PM
The Babin pick put us in a bad situation. I mean even if someone does take him it was a deep draft as far as LB and other posisitons. Damn shame we reached so high in the draft, but maybe we thought tennessee or NE would take him.

alphajoker
12-05-2005, 04:03 PM
The Babin move was pretty bad. 3 players for an underacheiving guy? Its close.

Yep, that's exactly what I was about to say. I don't like to think of "what could have beens" but.....well, never mind:brickwall

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 04:12 PM
Oh look an I hate Carr comment - Hey is that you in the picture? A Texas fan? No wonder you sound upset. I am an Aggie fan, I'm used to losing.

This one was hard, between not taking DJ so we could take a bench warmer in TJ or giving our division rival and former heartache a boat load of picks to help in there rebuild process, I must admit I am perplexed.

My vote would still have to go to the TJ pick. A non starting undersized DT who makes more money than what a back up should make. If we needed depth we should have kept Deloch or Martin. Would have been cheaper.

Funny how you give Carr a pass on four years, but not TJ after 3/4 of a season. The front of the jersey says Texans, not the Carrs. I was patient for three years with Carr. I would hope that Texan's fans would be as patient with others, especially those that will stand up for Carr no matter what.

johnboy
12-05-2005, 04:21 PM
Yep, that's exactly what I was about to say. I don't like to think of "what could have beens" but.....well, never mind:brickwall


The Titans didn't win last year they only have 3 wins this year with all of the great draft picks we gave them for Babin."what could have beens" is not any better than what did happen.

Marcus
12-05-2005, 04:28 PM
wow, I look at all these moves listed and can't fathom Casserly being back here next year with so many bad picks on his watch.

Well, regardless of the obvious fact that these are final decisions made by the GM, you still need to take into account how much influence the coaches themselves had in these decisions. A GM has to listen to the coaches that he hires.

If you don't, I'm willing to bet McNair will.

Ryan
12-05-2005, 04:34 PM
worse than that is releasing Aaron Glenn.

infantrycak
12-05-2005, 04:49 PM
Hard for me to see passing on DJ as a bigger screw up than trading for Buchanon. Odell Thurman and Lofa Tatupu are both playing as well or better than DJ and could have been had in the 2nd round.

Wolf
12-05-2005, 05:08 PM
releasing of AG and JS ... well they were making big bucks and from what I hear didn't want to renegiate the contract.

Steve foley?? please.. he wouldn't make the plays here like he does there

Buchanon? yeah we wasted a 2nd on him .. if a coach could get him to play we would be set (his talent wise).

Babin? ..I think wrong time wrong place.. we needed depth so I would have liked those picks and jury is still out on Babin..

Hollings was a boom or bust pick who would have know the Raiders to go from super bowl to bust on that.

As far as trashing the Defensive players we have.. I want to see a coach in here to utilize them.. I, along with all of you have waiting 4 years to see a real "Dom Capers" defensive swarming unit and we have nothing but a passive conservative unit... I think there is talent on the club but not talent on the sidelines .. I think Dom is a heck of a DC but not HC.


At this moment.. I'd say the Babin one is riskiest one. we gave up a lot at the start, yet I want to see what we can do with a DC in here.

Wolf
12-05-2005, 05:10 PM
main difference in our team this year compared to seasons fast.. seems we are whipped before we start.. we have lost confidence in our coaching staff and it shows on the field ..They might not say it, but we all can see it.

IF we had 1/2 of the fire of the first game we played..I think we'd have about 6 wins .

Texans Horror
12-05-2005, 07:25 PM
I couldn't decide as to which was worst. I'll say it was getting rid of Glenn, who is looking good with Parcells, and inserting the Matador into our secondary. This was supposed to be an upgrade to our defense, but it completely backfired. We definitely took two steps back on defense this year, and I have a feeling that we would have done much better had our defensive unit not been "improved" with new blood.

TexHorns
12-06-2005, 05:06 AM
I say P-Buch because with no Arron Glenn and such little depth that was a huge gamble. The reason for getting rid of Glenn was to get younger which is semi-understandable but replacing him with junk is not. As for Babin yes we mayhave given up too much for him but at least he can fill the spot without being a total flake and doesnt let people walk into the endzone.

royce1054
12-06-2005, 05:25 AM
i dont understand why the last one is on there. It should be Passing on a OL for REggie Bush. If we draft Bush we have made a huge mistake bc he still cant run if the DL and blitzing LB/S can tackle him before he takes 3 steps.

Buffi2
12-06-2005, 08:00 AM
I went with pbuc but an "all of the above" choice would be better.

TEXANRED
12-06-2005, 12:19 PM
Funny how you give Carr a pass on four years, but not TJ after 3/4 of a season. The front of the jersey says Texans, not the Carrs. I was patient for three years with Carr. I would hope that Texan's fans would be as patient with others, especially those that will stand up for Carr no matter what.
No you missunderstand. I am not saying to can TJ. My point was if you needed to add depth and youth to the line but you wanted to sit the guy to learn the system, thats fine. But why would you spend a first round pick on a DT. He's no Sapp. DT are easily found in the second day.

what we needed was a good tackling, covering, sacking linebacker. You know, DJ.

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2005, 12:38 PM
No you missunderstand. I am not saying to can TJ. My point was if you needed to add depth and youth to the line but you wanted to sit the guy to learn the system, thats fine. But why would you spend a first round pick on a DT. He's no Sapp. DT are easily found in the second day.

what we needed was a good tackling, covering, sacking linebacker. You know, DJ.

I do not think you are saying to can TJ, but I do not understand how you can say DJ would have made us better out of the box as he would have learned much like TJ to play essentially a new role in our defensive scheme.

I loved DJ in college and believe he will have a very good career. I also happen to believe TJ will have a very good career as well.

To me this is neutral pick that has come no where near playing itself out on who is the winner or loser. I myself fault Cass less on the TJ pick as the season progresses.

stevo3883
12-06-2005, 12:44 PM
I do not think you are saying to can TJ, but I do not understand how you can say DJ would have made us better out of the box as he would have learned much like TJ to play essentially a new role in our defensive scheme.

I loved DJ in college and believe he will have a very good career. I also happen to believe TJ will have a very good career as well.

To me this is neutral pick that has come no where near playing itself out on who is the winner or loser. I myself fault Cass less on the TJ pick as the season progresses.

first off, we'd be better right away because DJ would be starting, opposed to TJ, who is a very expensive bench warmer.

it was such a stupid move, we arent a good enough team to be drafting backups in the first round.

then it comes to quality of player, a 2 time all-american and bednarik award winner vs. Travis Johnson, with 30 tackles and 3 sacks his senior year (who expects GREATER production from a DT in the NFL than he came close to producing in college?)

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2005, 12:46 PM
first off, we'd be better right away because DJ would be starting, opposed to TJ, who is a very expensive bench warmer.

it was such a stupid move, we arent a good enough team to be drafting backups in the first round.

then it comes to quality of player, a 2 time all-american and bednarik award winner vs. Travis Johnson, with 30 tackles and 3 sacks his senior year (who expects GREATER production from a DT in the NFL than he came close to producing in college?)

Where was DJ going to start?

stevo3883
12-06-2005, 12:48 PM
i dont understand why the last one is on there. It should be Passing on a OL for REggie Bush. If we draft Bush we have made a huge mistake bc he still cant run if the DL and blitzing LB/S can tackle him before he takes 3 steps.


I was under the impression our problem was pass-protection from the o-line.

"he still cant run if the DL and blitzing LB/S can tackle him before he takes 3 steps" when has that been a problem for us? seriously, Davis is going on 3 1000yd seasons, and hes not even that great a back.

the thing that would make us so much better with Bush, is those dumpoffs from Carr, that davis usually runs 6-7 yards with and get tackled, turn into potential 50 yard gains because Bush is such an amazing runner in open space.

stevo3883
12-06-2005, 12:50 PM
Where was DJ going to start?


wherever they wanted him to. I doubt Greenwood would start over him. Hed definitely beat out Peek or Babin if they chose to put him there.

the only guy that right now is probably better than him is Wong, and hes a long time veteran

Kaiser Toro
12-06-2005, 12:54 PM
wherever they wanted him to. I doubt Greenwood would start over him. Hed definitely beat out Peek or Babin if they chose to put him there.

the only guy that right now is probably better than him is Wong, and hes a long time veteran

Thank you for confirming what I thought you would say. Unfortunately, we will not be agreeing on what went down, but I think we can agree that we will both be cheering on DJ's career and the Texans moving forward.

stevo3883
12-06-2005, 01:05 PM
Thank you for confirming what I thought you would say. Unfortunately, we will not be agreeing on what went down, but I think we can agree that we will both be cheering on DJ's career and the Texans moving forward.


yeah, and i wouldve had no problem with the TJ pick if Gary walker had pulled a boselli on us or something, but he didnt.

everyone says this year how we shouldnt draft bush and should go for a need, but just last year we passed many needs and drafted a guy to be a backup with our 1st rd pick.

Bush is a need IMO, we NEED him in the backfield, we NEED him lined up in the slot, we NEED him touching the ball.

MorKnolle
12-06-2005, 01:43 PM
Thank you for confirming what I thought you would say. Unfortunately, we will not be agreeing on what went down, but I think we can agree that we will both be cheering on DJ's career and the Texans moving forward.

I too was on the Derrick Johnson bandwagon last year and have to think he would have started ahead of Babin, especially after those first couple games when Babin was benched for Orr, and he could have moved to ILB when Wong went down, and hopefully we wouldn't have bothered with Greenwood if we had gotten DJ (I don't remember if we signed Greenwood before or after the draft).

Texas_Thrill
12-06-2005, 03:35 PM
Why was there not a VOTE FOR ALL???? I mean you could go down the list of how each was and has adversley effected our team in a negative way.

BUC and BABY are linked though b/c of the amount of players we gave up for them. BABY more than BUC b/c Baby was such a project to convert and we assumed BUC would resume his old form. All that said they were both horrible.

titan hater
12-06-2005, 07:49 PM
Boselli and Carr could be nominees as well.

SHHHHHHHHHHH...don't say the B word!!!!

outofhnd
12-06-2005, 11:29 PM
Where is the Draft Bennie Joppru with our second round pick in 03 selectio I think that was the worst move ever because that is something our offense has never recovered from. We have shuffles TE now for the past 2 years trying to fill the spot he was supposed to play.

texan279
12-06-2005, 11:55 PM
As far as the draft picks on that list, the draft is a gamble, there is rarely if ever a sure pick in the draft. As far as Babin goes he had a solid rookie season and struggled early this season with the shoulder injury, which the coaches allowed him to play with. As far as Greenwood goes, as of right now he has 90 tackles, 2 sacks, and 2 fumble recoveries, so after 12 games this season, Greenwood has more tackles than every Texan defensive player had all of last season except for Jamie Sharper. By the way, Sharper had 137 tackles, 2 sacks, and 1 fumble recovery last season, so Greenwood has almost matched Sharper's performance from last season in 4 less games. And as far as DJ goes he has 73 tackles, 2 sacks and 1 fumble recovery this season. Sharper has all of 37 tackles and 0 sacks this season in 8 games and Seattle has him listed as 3rd team ROLB right now and yes I know he is injured. I am in no way defending our front office or our coaches, what I am saying is we cannot blame this season for any one move mad or any one move that was not made. If we had drafted DJ, kept Glenn and Sharper, not traded up for Babin, whatever the case may be, more than likely we would still be at 1-11 right now.

outofhnd
12-06-2005, 11:57 PM
ok then if its strictly personnel moves... Signing Victor Riley to play LT

Bobo
12-07-2005, 10:47 AM
Au contraire! Drafting Reggie Bush would be the worst move they could make by far. They already have Dom Davis and they have so many other needs. They'd better try to parlay their pick into a bunch of selections or they will be in the cellar for years. Plus, Reggie Bush is no sure thing. Remember Lawrence Phillips, Curtis Enis, Kianna Carter and Archie Griffin? No college RB is a sure thing in the pros -- especially with a bad offensive line. Just look at the crop of rookie RBs that were taken with first-round picks this year. Most are either under-performing or hurt.

Bobo
12-07-2005, 11:02 AM
Where as I agree with you and think we have more needs to address other than getting Bush, with what he has done in his college career, is he too good to pass up?

Two words: Archie Griffin.

TheBeastIsBest
12-07-2005, 11:28 AM
Do the Texans have all of their draft picks for this year or were some of them traded away last year?

Coach C.
12-07-2005, 12:19 PM
the texans have 8 picks this year.

Hardcore Texan
12-07-2005, 12:52 PM
Too bad we have so many choices! The fact they we do should implicate Casserly.

Anyway, gotta go with the PBUC trade. It is going to be hard to recover from this horrible year without a couple key pics. How are we supposed to gain ground on other teams?

:brickwall

TexanExile
12-07-2005, 05:26 PM
I totally agree with that. This team just didn't do much last year. There weren't TONS of big-name FAs out there last summer, but it didn't seem to stop the cap-strapped COLTS from signing another major defensive player. And thinking about so many other teams who made moves, while the Texans just waved buh-bye to legit starters, I sure as heck hope that all this 2006 cap room won by those moves will be worth it.

I said it then and I'll say it now. If Morlon Greenback is your big-name FA acquisition, you have a LOT of 'splaining to do.

Wolf
12-07-2005, 06:54 PM
yeah, and i wouldve had no problem with the TJ pick if Gary walker had pulled a boselli on us or something, but he didnt.

everyone says this year how we shouldnt draft bush and should go for a need, but just last year we passed many needs and drafted a guy to be a backup with our 1st rd pick.

Bush is a need IMO, we NEED him in the backfield, we NEED him lined up in the slot, we NEED him touching the ball.


well either way. Our DL is long in the tooth.. Payne and Walker are nearing the end of the career.. jury is out on TJ because if the veterans groom him right and next season or season after that Payne and Walker are gone.. If groomed he should be ready to be a monster. If he isn't in 2 years, I say that it was a bad pick

Wolf
12-07-2005, 06:57 PM
BTW I know this is a little off of the subject.. but how would you compare the LT's of last year's draft (who are playing RT now) to the LTs being hyped this year?
I am just saying maybe the staff felt this year was a better year for LT.. I have no idea and just saying

TexanFanInCC
12-08-2005, 11:03 AM
i would like to add one. replacing jeff posey for charlie clemons

phan1
12-10-2005, 09:59 PM
My Gawd. thanks for reminding me how bad Casserly has F'd up this entire franchise...

Goldeagle
12-10-2005, 10:01 PM
Is there a "all of the above" option?

aj.
12-11-2005, 04:09 AM
Greenwood did get a very small signing bonus ($800k I think) though so we could cut him with little or no adverse effect ($600k cap hit next year) if we decided to do so.
Greenwood got a $7 mil signing bonus. He isn't going anywhere for a couple more years at least.

Greenwood carries nearly a $4 million cap hit next year. Thank your GM.

Greenwood's bases: (add 1.4 million each year for his approximate cap hit - count 1.4 million dead money on the cap for each year prior to '09 when he's cut)

2005 $540,000
2006 $2,511,000
2007 $3,264,000
2008 $4,017,000
2009 $4,768,000

Where's the "$30 million in bonuses for Todd Wade, Robaire Smith and Gary Walker with contracts through '09" selection?

Caz
12-11-2005, 10:09 AM
I say first releasing Jamie Sharper followed closely by not drafting Derrick Johnson or one of those big 3 OL.


By the way wasn't Tony Hollings drafted in the supplemental draft? If this came up already I appoligize but He wasn't even a real second round draft pick.

stevo3883
12-11-2005, 12:19 PM
I say first releasing Jamie Sharper followed closely by not drafting Derrick Johnson or one of those big 3 OL.


By the way wasn't Tony Hollings drafted in the supplemental draft? If this came up already I appoligize but He wasn't even a real second round draft pick.


oh he most definitely was a real second round draft pick.

we used our first pick in the second round (of the april draft) to pick him up in the supplemental draft.

bigcarlos
12-11-2005, 01:07 PM
I say DJ:texflag:

TexansJunkE
12-11-2005, 03:38 PM
not even close....the Babin pick was the worst. "We could have gotten"
Ben Troupe in the 2nd (there goes the tight end need)
Randy Starks in the 3rd ( no need to get Travis Johnson)

Then in turn we could have gotten D. Johnson this past year!
Then again Cass. is the one pulling the strings? What a joke! Fire Cass!!!!!!!!:brickwall

LBblitz
12-11-2005, 03:46 PM
this isnt fair...can i have 9 picks?

stevo3883
12-11-2005, 03:51 PM
this isnt fair...can i have 9 picks?


*in Al Davis Voice* only if you trade me 18 picks.... trust me, its worth it