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Nighthawk
12-05-2005, 12:13 AM
A terrifying report from the rumor mongering ProFootballTalk--

CASSERLY WILL STAY

Although plenty of league insiders believe that Texans G.M. Charley Casserly should join coach Dom Capers in the ranks of the soon-to-be-unemployed, word is that owner Bob McNair will keep the guy who hired the coach who hasn't done jack in four years on the job.

Capers, however, is definitely gone, meaning that Casserly will get another chance to hire the right guy to lead the team.

Of course, the new coach won't be in a position to give any input as to whether the team should keep quarterback David Carr for 2006, since an $8 million option bonus is due to the No. 1 pick from the 2002 draft at the end of the regular season. We think that the team should choose not to pay Carr the money, allow him to become a free agent, and then if the new coach decides that Carr is the best fit for the new coach's offensive strategy, Carr should be re-signed.

Hervoyel
12-05-2005, 12:46 AM
Never been to that website before and now that I have seen it I'm ok with that. One of the first things I could read was "ATTENTION! WANT TO PLACE AN AD ON PFTALK?"

From the look of things I'm surprised they have room for more!

I'm also ok with Casserly staying another year. I thought it was probably inevitable anyway so it doesn't come as a shock if that rumor is in fact true.

HJam72
12-05-2005, 12:55 AM
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC. :cool:

Hervoyel
12-05-2005, 01:20 AM
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC. :cool:


Me either. My gut tells me that having Casserly here is going to limit the choices in the HC hunt. I don't really believe that Casserly has failed as badly in the talent finding department as many people do though so that part doesn't upset me.

We'll just have to wait and see (and hope).

Scott D
12-05-2005, 02:18 AM
He failed in the drafting dept. when he signed up Buchannon and released Glenn.

Ibar_Harry
12-05-2005, 02:25 AM
He failed in the drafting dept. when he signed up Buchannon and released Glenn.

That was what the coaches wanted. They didn't think they would have a problem with Glenn. Glenn got ticked off at something and I still say we will never know what it was. Glenn took DROB under his belt and had no problems tuitoring the rookie. I think it was very personal too.

phantom17
12-05-2005, 06:37 AM
Oh wonderful, another year of the riverboat gambler! :pigfly:

Koolaid Time
12-05-2005, 06:44 AM
He failed in the drafting dept. when he signed up Buchannon and released Glenn.


Charlie makes ol Ladd Herzig look competent... What ever happened to Ladd anyway?

TigerV1
12-05-2005, 09:05 AM
Charlie has been working on keeping his job and pushing the blame on Capers since we were 0-4. I'm not too surprised about this however if he does stay and doesn't have some personell responsibilities taken away you can almost guarantee that Jimmy Johnson will not coach for the Texans.

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 09:08 AM
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.

chuckm
12-05-2005, 09:10 AM
Charlie has been working on keeping his job and pushing the blame on Capers since we were 0-4.

I assume you have something other than "a keen analytical mind" with which to support this statement?

Runner
12-05-2005, 10:47 AM
One thing to consider when deciding if you want Casserly to stay or go is how much you like our current roster. Do you cast more blame for our current situation on poor coaching or poor play? Would you like to see some of our as yet unproven players have a chance to succeed, or do you want as thorough a house cleaning as possible given contract, salary cap, and other ramifications?

The reason to consider this is that if Casserly goes we will probably have more turnover because the new GM and coach will want their own players rather than "Casserly's guys" as much as possible. Conversely, if Casserly stays we will see more of "his guys" stay on the team.

I am in the "keep Casserly and see what some of our team can do under competent coaching" camp. This might lead to a shorter period of rebuilding.

Malloy
12-05-2005, 10:52 AM
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.

Think you're right, Cass will hang one for one more ride, entire coaching staff will be leaving unless the new HC wants any of them to stay.

Corrosion
12-05-2005, 11:20 AM
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.


Yeah , Casserly still has a few people to throw under the buss before his card is punched , Capers and Fangio to name just two .....We can hope he's gone but odds are that the "Riverboat Gambler" returns . :brickwall

TigerV1
12-05-2005, 11:53 AM
I assume you have something other than "a keen analytical mind" with which to support this statement?

No need to be sarcastic.

I don't have the links to the interviews, but on quite a few that I have read, he has made it sound like the problems are not with the player acquisitions(general manager), but rather with development (coaching). Tell ya what, if I find the links I will put them on there.

Vinny
12-05-2005, 12:01 PM
I am in the "keep Casserly and see what some of our team can do under competent coaching" camp. This might lead to a shorter period of rebuilding.or make it much, much, much longer.

Hervoyel
12-05-2005, 12:05 PM
or make it much, much, much longer.

Yeah, could go either way. This is a hard decision to make. Hopefully McNair has more information than we do and he can make the right choice. I go back and forth on Casserly in my mind and just finished posting to another thread about the mistakes he's made and what I'm afraid he'll do with the first overall pick if we get it (And it wasn't just a standard "Draft Reggie Bush" rant either).

It's hard to say. What do you think? Is this going to be our most interesting off-season ever or what?

texasguy346
12-05-2005, 12:25 PM
What do you think? Is this going to be our most interesting off-season ever or what?

This offseason will definately go a long way in determining whether or not the Texans rebound to a respectable team quickly or slowly. If Casserley fails to fix some of the numerous problems that face this team then chances are we'll be having a discussion next year about how we will be able to coax Ron Wolf out of retirement. In essence we would put of rebuilding another year, and we'd have to wait as our new GM slowly but surely replaced Casserley's players with his own.

I'm hoping that a new coaching staff and a good offseason will go a long way in helping ease the Texans woes. Imagine if you dare a OLine that doesn't have a spot reserved for the likes of Fred Weary, and imagine that OLine with an infusion of talented young players on the depth chart. Imagine Carr actually being able to have time to take a 5 step or, dare I dream it, a 7 step drop. How about the defense? Imagine a defense that is no longer a swinging gate with a broken latch. Imagine that latch is fixed and we see a defense that actually plays tough and smart when the 4th quarter rolls around and the game is on the line. Best of all though. Imagine looking down at the sidelines at a Texans game and seeing a Texans coaching staff that is competent and is capable of getting the best out of their players while gearing the game plan towards their strengths.


BTW Sorry for all the imagine stuff. Kind of gives a John Lennon vibe. That's what you get when you listen to music and post at the same time.

TexanExile
12-05-2005, 12:27 PM
Whenever someone says fire the coach, the obvious reply is: who's out there to replace him? I almost never see the same question asked about Casserly. Is there really a solid GM prospect out there, looking for a job? I'm disgusted with the condition of this team's roster, but I don't know that there's a hot candidate out there. Lots of HC changes coming this offseason. What about GMs?

I hear Matt Millen might be available. :cool:

Runner
12-05-2005, 12:29 PM
or make it much, much, much longer.

Yes it's hard to determine what we should do. We'll all be better able to say what the right thing to do was now in a couple of years, hindsight being what it is and all.

I'm going to use Ragone as an example of what I'm talking about here with the following caveats: He's probably not the best example, I'm not saying he should be playing now, I don't know if he is a "Casserly guy" guy or not. This is just an example. I'm assuming the coaches are gone.

Ragone's contract his up this year. The Texans could tender him a one year offer for the 4-year veteran minimum, which is I think around $450K. If Casserly is here, we might do that. If Casserly is gone, we might let him walk because there is always more turnover with a complete GM/coaches regime change. The question becomes can we replace him with equivalent talent for the same money, would we have to pay more to get less, or could we pay less to get more?

Now we have to do that for every player on the team that is in a contract year or is "cuttable" because their cap hit would be manageable, etc. In the final analysis at the end of the season, do we get more bang for the buck to keep our current players who would be on the bubble (the probable outcome of the keep Casserly option), or are we better off to do a bigger housecleaning (the probable outcome of the fire Casserly option)?

The Preacher
12-05-2005, 12:32 PM
If he stays I just hope the Babin call was Capers begging CC for the next Kevin Greene. Same with the PB disaster if you scratch those off CC's record you can argue he's done a pretty good job. Of course those are two big ifs the answers of which we'll probably never know. ;)

CowboysTexansFan
12-05-2005, 01:08 PM
I disagree completely. At 1-11, the team's coaching staff and front office need a total revamp.

When I look at the team's drafting, trading and free agent signings, I can't conclude Casserly has done a good job. Quite the opposite, actually. I also think he's overrated for what he did in Washington, basically taking over after Bobby Beathard had already built the team. Who were some of Casserly's #1 picks in Washington? Let's see: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, among others.

I don't want Casserly anywhere near our draft room in 2006. If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.

beerlover
12-05-2005, 01:16 PM
I'd almost bet that Casserly could get the Giants #1 pick for Kris Brown if free agency was still active :rolleyes:

eriadoc
12-05-2005, 01:16 PM
If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.

Keep me in mind. I might just be able to take them off your hands :)

Ryan
12-05-2005, 05:39 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Hookem Horns
12-05-2005, 06:10 PM
I won't stomach Casserly staying. Even Bud Adams was smart enough to fire morons in his front office. Casserly is more responsible for this mess than Capers. I also don't care who's idea was who's when it came to drafting or signing certain players. Casserly had the final say in all decisions. If Capers wanted someone that didn't make sense then Casserly should have stepped in and prevented it.

Houston fans have suffered enough, from the Oilers leaving to now this mess. I sure hope this report is unfounded. This team is more than likely going to have the first pick or at least top 3 pick. Now is the time to start over again and starting over again with the same person in charge makes no sense. I will cringe if Asserly is the guy in charge making those draft decisions and HC decision. This guy has done NOTHING to prove he is a worthy NFL level GM. His track record in Washington was atrocious.

nunusguy
12-05-2005, 06:16 PM
If he stays I just hope the Babin call was Capers begging CC for the next Kevin Greene.
I don't have a link, but have heard that Fangio has admitted that Babin wouldn't be here if not for him - paisans stick together, right. And of course
Fangio is Capers alter ego. But the Hollings pick - the worst of all and don't
know how Casserly could wiggle out of taking the balme for that gem of an
idea.

CowboysTexansFan
12-05-2005, 07:03 PM
Great post, Hookem Horns. I agree with you completely and feel the same way.

ATX_Texan
12-05-2005, 08:16 PM
It looks like Casserly still has some of the press in his corner. Here is Richard Justice's take from the Chron:

Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/3502573.html)

BALTIMORE — Dom Capers should do something bold this morning. Like fire Vic Fangio.

Maybe it's too late for Capers to save his own job. Maybe the Texans are too far gone.

Bob McNair may already have decided to fire them all. That means you, too, Charley Casserly.

We interrupt for an unpopular opinion.

Casserly should not be fired.

Got that?



I don't understand how Casserly retains his title as a so-called draft expert. His best work was over a decade ago with the Skins. Yet, so many in the media still think he is one of the top GMs around regardless of his actual results in recent years.

CowboysTexansFan
12-05-2005, 09:11 PM
Who cares what Justice thinks? He apparently has a good relationship with Casserly from their days in Washington, D.C. together, and that's fine, but I'm less than impressed with Justice's acumen and judgment.

Just refer to some of the dumb articles Justice wrote about the Astros early in the last baseball season.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 10:02 PM
Who cares what Justice thinks? He apparently has a good relationship with Casserly from their days in Washington, D.C. together, and that's fine, but I'm less than impressed with Justice's acumen and judgment.

Just refer to some of the dumb articles Justice wrote about the Astros early in the last baseball season.

I generally share your opinion on this topic, I have yet to see much of a legit news quip out of him.

Hookem Horns
12-05-2005, 11:33 PM
His best work was over a decade ago with the Skins. Yet, so many in the media still think he is one of the top GMs around regardless of his actual results in recent years.

What did he do in Washington? Someone please tell me. We already went through all of his drafts and they were worse than what he had done here. If I will say anything positive about Casserly it is that he has improved slightly in drafting since he has been here. While Carr hasn't been real good, he is a lot better than Heath Schuler. I think it is also safe to say Andre Johnson is better than Desmond Howard. HOWEVER, his personel decisions are still BAD. This team is 1-11 and that is the bottom line.

BTW ATX, your avatar rules!

phan1
12-06-2005, 01:57 AM
Dude that sucks. I'd much prefer (and actually want) the opposite. Casserly goes, Capers gets 1 more year to prove himself. Casserly is definitely more responsible for Capers. JUST LOOK AT OUR DEFENSE NOW! Some "revamped" defense this year eh? Our defense is at least 2 years from back to being mediocre, when our defense was pretty decent. Casserly's decision making has royally screwed us over. HE NEEDS TO GO! Babin? Buchanon? I know you get busts, but for what we had to do to get these guys, it's just ridiculous.

Shamrock
12-06-2005, 04:40 AM
Casserly needs to get fired. Not fixing the OL in four years is a crime.

Fire him and Capers. Hire Pat Kirwin to be GM and Chargers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron as head coach.

ATX_Texan
12-06-2005, 08:44 AM
What did he do in Washington? Someone please tell me. We already went through all of his drafts and they were worse than what he had done here.

Like I said before, I cannot understand the whole "Casserley is a great GM" tag the media and some fans have bestowed upon him. For what I can gather, there are certain people who really believe that he is responsible for the great Skins teams that Gibbs won all those Super Bowls with. They seem to forget that these teams were mainly built by Bobby Bethred (sorry about the spelling) in the pre-salary cap era. It is all ancient history with the last Skins Super Bowl checking in way back in 1991, 15 years ago.

infantrycak
12-06-2005, 10:55 AM
Morlon Greenwood (for a good 7 mil more than any other team was offering him. Why were we the only ones to see the light?).

Where did you get this salary information? Odd other teams were making offers before he even visited him--he came here first.

Coach C.
12-06-2005, 11:01 AM
Charlie Casserly in most GM and professional circles has gone from the riverboat draft gambler to the guy that you may be able to swindle. As JJ said it you just have to convince him it "is a fair deal to both teams". That usually means one team got the better of it. Casserly is also seen as one of the great GM minds. The fact is the guy does not football, yeah he overspends, but he is from Washington he doesnt know any better. Casserly is also well respected as a man, it is just people have now come to understand that their are certain GMs and owners that can be swindled out of things and he happens to fall into the category.

I know you are going to want to know my sources. I have them wont tell you, and you can ignore it if you please to.

eriadoc
12-06-2005, 11:04 AM
Like I said before, I cannot understand the whole "Casserley is a great GM" tag the media and some fans have bestowed upon him. For what I can gather, there are certain people who really believe that he is responsible for the great Skins teams that Gibbs won all those Super Bowls with. They seem to forget that these teams were mainly built by Bobby Bethred (sorry about the spelling) in the pre-salary cap era. It is all ancient history with the last Skins Super Bowl checking in way back in 1991, 15 years ago.

Two things - First, I think most people that are not of the "Fire Casserly" club are not labeling him a great GM. Personally, I am of the opinion that he gets another year or two, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. It means I think the coaching staff has screwed up using the talent he's drafted and that's skewed the data. Second, Casserly was assistant GM for the Skins during Beathard's run and Casserly was credited with drafting several of the key contributors to the Super Bowl teams - off the top of my head, Brian Mitchell, Keith Bostic, and Joe Jacoby. He also drafted Mark Schlereth, but I cannot remember if he was around for the '91 Super Bowl. He is also credited with drafting 8 of the defensive starters for that '91 Super Bowl team. So while he hasn't done much of note here in Houston, he does have some laurels on which to hang his hat.

If our coaching staff was using the talent they've been given appropriately, we'd have a much better idea of what Casserly has actually done here. This team is far better, talent-wise, than 1-11 and Casserly is the one acquiring the talent.

Runner
12-06-2005, 11:16 AM
Two things - First, I think most people that are not of the "Fire Casserly" club are not labeling him a great GM. Personally, I am of the opinion that he gets another year or two, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. It means I think the coaching staff has screwed up using the talent he's drafted and that's skewed the data.

......




Well said. I fall into this group.

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2005, 12:58 PM
:texflag: You can be a good GM and not be good at making trades but you better know your limitations . I think if you have solid drafts and use free agency wisely ... you don't really have to trade much .

MorKnolle
12-06-2005, 01:02 PM
:texflag: You can be a good GM and not be good at making trades but you better know your limitations . I think if you have solid drafts and use free agency wisely ... you don't really have to trade much .

You are absolutely right. There are actually very few trades in the NFL, especially with the salary cap and the large signing bonuses that many players are seeking. Good teams are generally built through the draft and some free agency, with maybe a trade or two in there to pick up a key player (like the Patriots getting Dillon a couple years ago)

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2005, 01:24 PM
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .

eriadoc
12-06-2005, 01:30 PM
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .

Beathard promoted Casserly to Asst. GM in 1982, I believe it was, and it was Beathard who credited Casserly with drafting several of the players that won those Super Bowls. The Super Bowl in '91 was won without Beathard, but many of the players that Beathard drafted were there still. As I mentioned above, however, Casserly is credited with drafting 8 of the defensive starters for that team.

These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.

ATX_Texan
12-06-2005, 01:52 PM
These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.

It also seems that the idea that Casserly is a draft genius comes up just as often here and among the media. From what I have been able to gather, Casserly's greatest success came working for or with Beathard. In addition, it also helped that he had a Hall of Fame coach in Joe Gibbs making use of the talent. These great results also occured about 15 years ago, which is quite a long time ago in the "what have you done for me lately NFL". Since that time, he has been pretty hit and miss with the Skins and now the Texans. Mike Ditka was a great coach for the Bears in roughly the same period. However, that work years ago does not make him a great coach right now. There are several other GMs, like Bill Polian, that built more than one team that seem much more worthy of all the lavious praise that Casserly seems to get.

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2005, 01:54 PM
:texflag: After Beathard's players and coaches left , what happened ?

Hookem Horns
12-06-2005, 05:09 PM
:texflag: After Beathard's players and coaches left , what happened ?

Brilliant hirings of head coaches like Richie Petitbon and Norv Turner. Great first round selections like Heath Schuler, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, and Michael Westbrook.

Here is a quote from the NFL History Guide "The Redskins were one of the weaker teams in the league for much of the 1990s."

Here are most of Casserly's drafts in Washington. Grade'em out.

1999
1. Champ Bailey, CB, Georgia
2. Jon Jansen, T, Michigan
4. Nate Stimson, LB, Georgia Tech
5. Derek Smith, OL, Virginia Tech
6. Jeff Hall, K, Tennessee
7. Tim Alexander, WR, Oregon St.

1998
2. Stephen Alexander, TE, Oklahoma
3. Skip Hicks, RB, UCLA
4. Shawn Barber, LB, Richmond
5. Mark Fischer, C, Purdue
6. Pat Palmer, WR, Northwestern St.
7. David Terrell, CB, UTEP
7. Antwaune Ponds, LB, Syracuse

1997
1. Kenard Lang, DE, Miami
2. Greg Jones, LB, Colorado
3. Derek Smith, LB, Arizona St.
4. Albert Connell, WR, Texas A&M
5. Jamel Williams, S, Nebraska
5. Keith Thibodeaux, CB, N.W. Louisiana
5. Twan Russell, LB, Miami
5. Brad Badger, G, Stanford

1996
1. Andre Johnson, T, Penn State
4. Stephen Davis, RB, Auburn
5. Leomont Evans, S, Clemson
6. Kelvin Kinney, DE, Virginia St.
7. Jeremy Asher, LB, Oregon
7. Deandre Maxwell, WR, San Diego St.

1995
1. Michael Westbrook, WR, Colorado
2. Cory Raymer, C, Wisconson
3. Daryl Pounds, CB, Nicholls St.
4. Larry Jones, RB, Miami
5. Jamie Asher, TE, Louisville
5. Rich Owens, DE, Lehigh
6. Brian Thure, T, California
7. Scott Turner, CB, Illinois

1994
1. Heath Shuler, QB, Tennessee
2. Tre Johnson, T, Temple
3. Tydus Winans, WR, Fresno St.
3. Joe Patton, T, Alabama A&M
4. Kurt Haws, TE, Utah
6. Dexter Nottage, DE, Florida A&M
7. Gus Frerotte, QB, Tulsa

1993
1. Tom Carter, CB, Notre Dame
2. Reggie Brooks, RB, Notre Dame
3. Rick Hamilton, LB, Central Florida
3. Ed Bunn, P, UTEP
4. Sterling Palmer, DE, Florida St.
5. Greg Huntington, C, Penn St.
6. Darryl Morrison, CB, Arizona
6. Frank Wycheck, TE, Maryland
8. Lamont Hollinquest, LB, USC

1992
1. Desmond Howard, WR, Michigan
2. Shane Collins, DE, Arizona St.
3. Paul Siever, G, Penn St.
4. Chris Hakel, QB, William & Mary
6. Ray Rowe, TE, San Diego St.
7. Calvin Holmes, DB, USC
8. Darryl Moore, G, UTEP
9. Boone Powell, LB, Texas
10. Tony Barker, LB, Rice
11. Terry Smith, WR, Penn St.
12. Matt Elliott, C, Michigan

1991
1. Bobby Wilson, DT, Michigan St.
3. Ricky Ervins, RB, USC
6. Dennis Ransom, TE, Texas A&M
7. Keith Cash, WR, Texas
8. Jimmy Spencer, DB, Florida
9. Charles Bell, DB, Baylor
10. Cris Shale, P, Bowling Green
11. David Gulledge, S, Jacksonville St.
12. Keenan McCardell, WR, UNLV

1990
2. Andre Collins, LB, Penn St.
3. Moe Elewonibi, G, BYU
4. Cary Conklin, QB, Washington
5. Brian Mitchell, RB, S.W. Louisiana
6. Kent Walls, DT, Nebraska
9. Tim Moxley, G, Ohio St.
10. D’Juan Francisco, DB, North Dakota
10. Thomas Rayam, DT, Alabama
11. Jon Leverenz, LB, Minnesota

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2005, 05:12 PM
:texflag: If I'm not mistaken they traded up for Desmond Howard . CC traded with the Bengals for the rights to Desmond Howard . Funny thing is the Bengals took Carl Pickens in the 2nd round , who ended up a much better WR .

Shamrock
12-07-2005, 02:59 AM
You guys are giving Beathard too much credit. Specifically, credit for being good in a cap era. Beathard bombed in the cap era, to include the Ryan Leaf pick. He also annually became the guy other teams fleeced, by giving up future #1's for selecting players he could have gotten one or two rounds later.

Casserly comes from the same mold. He and Beathard could build a team in the pre-cap era, but neither has accomplished anything since the cap was implemented. In fact, both led/are leading their teams towards permanent bottom feeders. The Chargers only began to climb out of the mess Beathard left them 5 years after he was gone.

Don't let Casserly continue to ruin the Texans. He needs to be fired.

texan279
12-07-2005, 09:15 AM
Sitting here watching Cold Pizza and one of their analysts just said that he has heard from inside the Texans organazation that Casserly's job is safe and he will be here next season. He also said McNair WANTS to keep Capers here until at least next season, but probably will not because of poor ticket sales.

CanadianTitansFan
12-07-2005, 09:46 AM
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .

Beatherd also failed miserably in San Diego after being proclaimed a genius in Washington.

Luck and circumstance is the biggest factor in the draft. All teams trade off the same information for the most part.

When I evaluate a GM I'm more interested on how he executes during the draft, tade ups, trade downs, matching need and value to the player, etc...Self scouting is actually where I think the better GM's seperate themselves measuring what they have vs. the competition and what they need.

That's why I'd fire Casserly...it's not necessarily about who he drafted, it's about blowing several picks for Babin, the Buchanon fiasco, overevaluating the talent on his roster, etc...

Mostly, he needs to be fired cause your heading towards 1-15 in an era when you're not supposed to be rebuilding. Everyone has to be accountable for that. You don't want a losing culture like the Lions have where Ford suffers fools time and again.

Texans_Chick
12-07-2005, 10:13 AM
Right now, I am Cass neutral. Mostly because I am not sure that we can get anybody better. The only way I ever saw him leaving is if we thought we could get a flashy (i.e. Coach that would get people to buy tickets) coach that would also demand the GM job, and I don't think any of those are going to be truly interested in the Texans job, other than for the purposes of getting more money from some other team, or because they want their ego stroked but won't coach for anyone.

I believe Casserly can work with any number of coaches and get them the personnel they want.

Link to the previous thread about possible GMs that are out there. (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=15095)

I do not begrudge him the moves that didn't work out. A non-good team is going to absorb bad choices worse than a team that is a good one. If you make enough choices in life or in football, you are going to have ones that don't work out so well for you. Some of the choices available to the Texans are going to be limited for a while because FAs may not want to come to a newish team and they will want more money to take that risk. Players careers are finite, and many don't want to deal with the risk of wasting their careers rebuidling.

Honoring Earl 34
12-07-2005, 10:37 AM
:texflag: Beathard did not fail to bad in San Diego ... they went to the Super Bowl . His downfall was Ryan Leaf .

MorKnolle
12-07-2005, 11:27 AM
http://luminomagazine.com/2004.03/spotlight/officespace/images/bobs1.jpg

Haha, Bob and Bob. Hopefully in our case we won't see too many promotions for undeserving people, just for Hoke and then keep Marciano. I have been dying to ask some of the people that work over there "What would you say [pause] you do here?" I was just thinking of that yesterday. I wonder how many Lumberghs and Miltons they have working over there.

Runner
12-07-2005, 11:29 AM
Haha, Bob and Bob. Hopefully in our case we won't see too many promotions for undeserving people, just for Hoke and then keep Marciano. I have been dying to ask some of the people that work over there "What would you say [pause] you do here?" I was just thinking of that yesterday. I wonder how many Lumberghs and Miltons they have working over there.

Can we keep one Marciano and not the other?

Runner
12-07-2005, 11:32 AM
On second thought, maybe Tony is worth keeping too. He was the o-line coach before Pendry came in and saved the day.

Bobo
12-07-2005, 11:34 AM
A terrifying report from the rumor mongering ProFootballTalk--

CASSERLY WILL STAY

Although plenty of league insiders believe that Texans G.M. Charley Casserly should join coach Dom Capers in the ranks of the soon-to-be-unemployed, word is that owner Bob McNair will keep the guy who hired the coach who hasn't done jack in four years on the job.

Capers, however, is definitely gone, meaning that Casserly will get another chance to hire the right guy to lead the team.

Of course, the new coach won't be in a position to give any input as to whether the team should keep quarterback David Carr for 2006, since an $8 million option bonus is due to the No. 1 pick from the 2002 draft at the end of the regular season. We think that the team should choose not to pay Carr the money, allow him to become a free agent, and then if the new coach decides that Carr is the best fit for the new coach's offensive strategy, Carr should be re-signed.

A.) I don't think this is "terrifying" at all. Casserly has made some good decisions and has made some bad ones -- just like every GM in the biz. Believe me, there's nothing better available out there. B.) If they don't pay Carr and let him go the free agent route, somebody else will sign him and then the Texans will be forced to pay even more money to get him back or else throw the dice with Ragone since you sure don't want to throw another draft choice at a questionable QB when that choice could be traded to renovate the entire team.

Bobo
12-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC. :cool:

I love this. You think that a good HC is just lying in the bushes, undiscovered by anybody else? The list of possible HCs is long, but they have their negative points too.

humbleone
12-07-2005, 12:19 PM
I disagree completely. At 1-11, the team's coaching staff and front office need a total revamp.

When I look at the team's drafting, trading and free agent signings, I can't conclude Casserly has done a good job. Quite the opposite, actually. I also think he's overrated for what he did in Washington, basically taking over after Bobby Beathard had already built the team. Who were some of Casserly's #1 picks in Washington? Let's see: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, among others.

I don't want Casserly anywhere near our draft room in 2006. If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.

Good post...spot on. I don't care who the next GM is frankly because no one could be worse than this guy. If McNair let's Casserly anywhere around the draft room in '06 we are in big trouble. It does appear however that the fans do have some influence with McNair so if you want Casserly gone (as I do) then we have to make it clear that we will not support financially a Casserly lead team in '06 period. If Capers and company are the only ones thrown under this buss...then the organization is deeply flawed with regards to integrity.:texflag:

Coach C.
12-07-2005, 12:56 PM
Generally Humbleone the GM gets more leadway than a coaching staff. Since Casserly does not have the overall direct influence over them that Capers and his staff does. I also feel like Cass gets a shot even though I think McNair is checking out people that could take his job. A decent amount of the business staff of things would stay anyway, the main shake up would be the scouts, coaches, Casserly's cabinet(VP and the like), but after these people most of the other posistions are set.

Honoring Earl 34
12-07-2005, 01:42 PM
:texflag: The thought is nobody has any confidence in any Texans brass and we don't know where to turn to right the ship . No matter what if we're not back to sqare one , we're in the neighborhood .

humbleone
12-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Yeah you're right Coach C...it just seems IMO McNair is underestimating how strongly the fan base feels about the demise of the team and who we hold accountable for it.

There is still a lot of good will out there towards him for bringing the NFL back to town and lord knows we (the fan base) can have the patience of oyster when it comes to waiting for our teams to perform at a high level but I am concerned with the "keep Cass for another year move."

Looks like a compromise decision to me and like most important decisions in life (school, profession, partners, spouses) they are usually a mistake.

Porky
12-07-2005, 03:14 PM
Who is to blame? The GM, scouts, the owner, the coaches?? Who. I say all of them, and more. The owner is to blame for not demanding results. I have seen multiple sources that swear Mcnair really wants to keep Capers, but knows he will be roasted if he stands pat. This makes me concerned about our long term health as a franchise when the man leading it, refuses to replace incompetent people. Cass needs to be told "Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out". But, here again, Mcnair will let the incompetent boob AKA Casserly slide another year. I am sure we will probably draft some punter from North Dakota State. Cass has been fleeced more than a sheep. I'm surprised he doesn't go Baah. He couldn't spot a sure thing with a microscope. He gives away draft choices like candy to the Easter Bunny, and gives out Money to medicore FA as if it grew on real money trees. Ok, so we don't have 1-11 talent. We probably have 5 win talent. Oh forgive me. Keep Cass and give the man a raise for assembling such a powerhouse of talent. Entire teams are built, fall, and rebuilt in 4 years, and yet the man still hasn't even built one offensive line in 4 years. Neutral? Ya, I am neutral. Nuetral on if he flys first class or coach on the way back to Washington.

blockhead83
12-07-2005, 03:25 PM
Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair. This is the same guy who spent like 700 million of his own money to bring the NFL back to Houston, so give him a break. I actually prefer to see an owner with patience rather than one who makes knee jerk decisions based on one or two seasons. Success comes with consistency in the NFL, that goes for coaching, front office, and personnel. If you look at most of the successful franchises in the NFL, they have consistency in their coaching staff and that has a large impact on their success. Just look at New England....they lose their coordinators and they're fighting for a playoff spot after winning two consecutive Super Bowls. And besides, this was an EXPANSION TEAM, it's our 4th season, and we were progressing every season before this year. Did you really expect McNair to fire his staff after they'd improved three consecutive years? Did you want him to fire them right now, during the season? Because that hasn't exactly worked out in the past, or in the present for that matter a la Detroit. Capers deserves a pink slip at the end of the season, but if you think any of this is McNair's fault, think again.

Porky
12-07-2005, 04:11 PM
Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair. This is the same guy who spent like 700 million of his own money to bring the NFL back to Houston, so give him a break. I actually prefer to see an owner with patience rather than one who makes knee jerk decisions based on one or two seasons. Success comes with consistency in the NFL, that goes for coaching, front office, and personnel. If you look at most of the successful franchises in the NFL, they have consistency in their coaching staff and that has a large impact on their success. Just look at New England....they lose their coordinators and they're fighting for a playoff spot after winning two consecutive Super Bowls. And besides, this was an EXPANSION TEAM, it's our 4th season, and we were progressing every season before this year. Did you really expect McNair to fire his staff after they'd improved three consecutive years? Did you want him to fire them right now, during the season? Because that hasn't exactly worked out in the past, or in the present for that matter a la Detroit. Capers deserves a pink slip at the end of the season, but if you think any of this is McNair's fault, think again.


First off, it wasn't all of his 700 million. Secondly, he will get back all of that money, and then some off of working people's backs. Excuse me if I don't shed any crocidile tears for a billionaire. Poor Poor misunderstood Bob. Boo friggin who.

As to patience. Patience is good to a degree. But too much is just as bad as not enough. Keeping incompentent people under the guise of patience and continuity is just as bad as a knee jerk Steinbrenner type. The best owners reward competence, and identify and get rid of imcompentence early before it festers and infects the organization like a bad disease. You want a patient owner group. Go see how Detroit has done over the years. The other thing I fault him for is under spending on assistants. Maybe if we had a top notch offensive line coach, our talent wouldn't seem as bad in that area as it appears. Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem. Classy guy. Love the fact he brought football back, but he isn't a demigod either, and he deserves at least some of the blame for this current mess.

eriadoc
12-07-2005, 05:52 PM
Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem.

I'll have to disagree here, but even if I did agree with you, it would just be Too F---- Bad (tm). That's the one "problem" that won't ever get fixed, so folks ought to get it out of their heads. Bud Adams to Bob McNair is such a huge upgrade that he would have to really try to be an *** to get me riled.

Frills
12-07-2005, 06:02 PM
All McNair has to do is look north at Detroit...crap GM can fire all the coaches he wants

The best chef in the world can't do much with an empty cupboard

blockhead83
12-07-2005, 06:07 PM
First off, it wasn't all of his 700 million. Secondly, he will get back all of that money, and then some off of working people's backs. Excuse me if I don't shed any crocidile tears for a billionaire. Poor Poor misunderstood Bob. Boo friggin who.

As to patience. Patience is good to a degree. But too much is just as bad as not enough. Keeping incompentent people under the guise of patience and continuity is just as bad as a knee jerk Steinbrenner type. The best owners reward competence, and identify and get rid of imcompentence early before it festers and infects the organization like a bad disease. You want a patient owner group. Go see how Detroit has done over the years. The other thing I fault him for is under spending on assistants. Maybe if we had a top notch offensive line coach, our talent wouldn't seem as bad in that area as it appears. Mcnair is far from the only problem, but he IS a problem. Classy guy. Love the fact he brought football back, but he isn't a demigod either, and he deserves at least some of the blame for this current mess.

Excuse me for being greatful that someone in Houston was willing to make a huge financial leap in order to bring the NFL back to Houston. I'd MUCH rather have a bad team than none at all, especially an organization as classy as this one. I've also heard that McNair apparently shorted Capers the cash for good assistants, but so far as I know there's no proof of this whatsoever. If you can come up with some evidence that this actually transpired besides column rumors, I'll spot you that point. Additionally, if Capers thought his assistants weren't cutting it, it's his and Casserly's responsibility to make the changes, not Mr. McNair. McNair probably has about the same football sense as any one of us, that's why he has a seasoned veteran in Casserly to help him make his decisions. Casserly's been around long enough to know how the NFL works, whether he's made great draft choices thus far or not.

Regardless of all of that, back to my main fault with your argument. This was an expansion franchise, so we were expected to begin badly. We showed alot of fight in year 1, and our record improved each of the next two years. How are you going to fault McNair for not firing Capers and Casserly when they were making progress? He didn't know that some of Casserly's draft choices were going to be busts, nobody[U] did. He didn't know Capers' plans for improving the pass rush and pass protection would ultimately fail, [U]nobody did. And once again, props to McNair for not firing them midseason, which is basically just surrendering the season. Capers is still fighting and trying to stay positive, by firing him we might as well have just forfeited the remaining schedule to ensure our #1 draft pick. McNair's trying to provide the fans with the best on-field product the Texans can provide for the rest of the season. Faulting him for this "mess" is ridiculous, IMO.

Porky
12-07-2005, 06:42 PM
Faulting him for this "mess" is ridiculous, IMO.

He is the head. Ever heard of the buck stops here. Who do you think hired the people that created the mess? Faulting him exclusively is ridiculous, but absolving him of any blame is ludicris. You pick which adjective is worse. :texflag:

Kaiser Toro
12-07-2005, 06:59 PM
He is the head. Ever heard of the buck stops here. Who do you think hired the people that created the mess? Faulting him exclusively is ridiculous, but absolving him of any blame is ludicris. You pick which adjective is worse. :texflag:

So McNair takes the blame for a short term loss? Three consecutive seasons they have had incremental growth in the win column and then run into this train wreck. It is all of our right to share our opinion, but lets wait for the season to close before we start talking about how much of the blame lies at the top of the pyrmaid. At McNair's high level, change cannot be installed and implemented at the drop of a dime.

blockhead83
12-07-2005, 08:24 PM
McNair doesn't play the games and he doesn't coach the players, he just signs the checks and tries to bring in knowledgeable help. Based on the past, which is all he had to work with, things should've worked out better this year. I don't fault him for any of our shortcomings this year. However, if he didn't act after this season and we had a repeat performance or worse next year, I'd be more inclined to share your opinion.

"Trick me once, shame on you. Trick me twice, shame on me."

Hervoyel
12-07-2005, 10:16 PM
I have seen multiple sources that swear Mcnair really wants to keep Capers, but knows he will be roasted if he stands pat. This makes me concerned about our long term health as a franchise when the man leading it, refuses to replace incompetent people.

I can't blame McNair for wanting "the dream" which is of course to have hired the next Tom Landry on his first try. It's Capers 4th season and he's 1-11 right now. In Landry's fourth season he finished 4-10 and he didn't win anything until his 7th year.

It's a different world today and Landry would be under just as much pressure as Capers is today. He'd never get those 7 years to get it built right in todays world.

Bobo
12-08-2005, 01:56 AM
Who is to blame? The GM, scouts, the owner, the coaches??

The players.

Nighthawk
12-08-2005, 02:20 AM
Casserly and Capers have both had their share of blunders, so they've made one another appear worse than they really are, IMO. But please don't put the onus on McNair, I hate it when I see people bashing McNair.

Dear Blockhead--

If McNair keeps Casserly I think he DESERVES to be bashed, and bashed hard and long. This is just the kind of compromise move that I feared when I posted the quote from the other source. I don't WANT to bash McNair, but if he makes another nonehead move because he's too scared or too nice to do the right thing football-wise, well, HE'S A BLOCKHEAD.

Casserly has done as much as Capers to bring this franchise to its knees in 4 short years. The Oilers' checkered history here looks like a brilliant success when compare to this TRAIL OF TEARS delivered by Capers and Casserly.

I'm thrilled that McNair brought NFL football back to Houston, but if the coaches and the GM, and the team become a laughingstock, as they have, then I think it's incumbant on McNair to make the HARD CHOICES necessary to turn it around. Keeping his seatmate in as GM is just going to insure more of the same kind of incompetence we've seen so far. Casserly is, for heaven's sake, primarily RESPONSIBLE for selecting the (very nice but clearly not competent) Dom Capers! What, you think Casserly is suddenly going to get some smarts?

I disagree. I think BOTH HAVE TO GO ASAP.

Nighthawk
12-08-2005, 02:24 AM
I can't blame McNair for wanting "the dream" which is of course to have hired the next Tom Landry on his first try. It's Capers 4th season and he's 1-11 right now. In Landry's fourth season he finished 4-10 and he didn't win anything until his 7th year.

It's a different world today and Landry would be under just as much pressure as Capers is today. He'd never get those 7 years to get it built right in todays world.

God, please! Somebody shoot him. You're probably the same guy who compares Carr to Favre in another thread. Capers knows how to blow a whistle, but unfortunately the comparison to Landry ends there.

Porky
12-08-2005, 10:12 AM
God, please! Somebody shoot him. You're probably the same guy who compares Carr to Favre in another thread. Capers knows how to blow a whistle, but unfortunately the comparison to Landry ends there.

I'm afraid I have to agree. Poor comparison Herv. Just because Landry took some time to put the pieces together in Dallas doesn't make the comparison valid. Landry was a great coach. Capers is a bad coach. I hearby declare that the words Capers and Landry shall never be invoked in the same sentence again. It is done, this day, the 8th of December, the year of our lord 2005. signed by the Honorable Porky.

ATX_Texan
12-08-2005, 11:47 AM
What worries me about McNair is that he appears to be like some folks on this board that automatically assume that changes will always result in something worse. I keep hearing that we don’t have any better alternatives to Capers and Casserly and that we will probably wind up with someone worse. Why is that? I can predict with great certainty that Casserly will continue to miss much more than hit with his personal decisions. I base this prediction by analyzing his whole 20 year career, not just the five years of greatness he enjoyed with the Skins over a decade ago. Casserly is what he it, a gambler of a GM. Is there a good chance that the Texans screw up again choosing a new front office? Most likely, there are plenty of NFL teams, and most are not all that good. However, there is also a chance that we might find the next great GM or coach. The only way we guarantee that it does not happen is to hang on to guys like Capers and Casserly long after they have proved to be incompetent.

I am very grateful for McNair bringing football back to Houston. However, I also realize that he is in a very favorable position for an NFL owner. The Texans are a top 5 revenue producing franchise. The Texans are not the Vikings, Saints, or the old Oilers, trapped in bad stadium deals without sufficient revenue streams. The Houston economy is very strong and there should not be a reason for companies to continue to pay to be associated with the Texans. The trick is to create a successful product that they will want to spend money on. Unfortunately, most business people are not going to pour money into the Texans just because they love the NFL. There are very few “True” fans just happy to put their name up in an NFL stadium when it comes to corporate sponsors. McNair should be much more concerned with turning this ship around to keep that top 5 rating. If the Budweiser plaza or the Gallery Furniture entrance is not renewed, he will take it a lot more seriously than if a few season tickets are not renewed.

blockhead83
12-08-2005, 12:17 PM
Dear Blockhead--

If McNair keeps Casserly I think he DESERVES to be bashed, and bashed hard and long. This is just the kind of compromise move that I feared when I posted the quote from the other source. I don't WANT to bash McNair, but if he makes another nonehead move because he's too scared or too nice to do the right thing football-wise, well, HE'S A BLOCKHEAD.

Casserly has done as much as Capers to bring this franchise to its knees in 4 short years. The Oilers' checkered history here looks like a brilliant success when compare to this TRAIL OF TEARS delivered by Capers and Casserly.

I'm thrilled that McNair brought NFL football back to Houston, but if the coaches and the GM, and the team become a laughingstock, as they have, then I think it's incumbant on McNair to make the HARD CHOICES necessary to turn it around. Keeping his seatmate in as GM is just going to insure more of the same kind of incompetence we've seen so far. Casserly is, for heaven's sake, primarily RESPONSIBLE for selecting the (very nice but clearly not competent) Dom Capers! What, you think Casserly is suddenly going to get some smarts?

I disagree. I think BOTH HAVE TO GO ASAP.

As I tried to make somewhat clear in my previous posts, I agree with what you're saying. If McNair does not make changes this offseason, either by replacing Capers, Casserly, or both, and we pay for it next year then I have no problem with you criticizing McNair. If he gets suckered into the same promises from these guys that we're about to turn the corner, and then we fall flat on our face again next year, then it becomes McNair's fault for not learning from his mistakes. My problem is with people criticizing McNair right now, because I think he's made the correct choices thus far in the franchise's existence. He's had very little reason to fire a staff that was making strides year after year until this train wreck happened this season.

I mainly want to see Fangio replaced, but I'll settle for the entire coaching staff being redone. On the Casserly front, maybe I'm just gullible, but I still think Capers and these coaches have made his acquisitions look worse than they really are. If Casserly is fired, it won't bother me, but just who do you have in mind that is more qualified than him to come in and run this thing? Give me some idea of who you're envisioning as the Texans savior, who's available that has the reputation of being a great GM?

Hervoyel
12-08-2005, 01:11 PM
I'm afraid I have to agree. Poor comparison Herv. Just because Landry took some time to put the pieces together in Dallas doesn't make the comparison valid. Landry was a great coach. Capers is a bad coach. I hearby declare that the words Capers and Landry shall never be invoked in the same sentence again. It is done, this day, the 8th of December, the year of our lord 2005. signed by the Honorable Porky.

You both misunderstand my comparison. I'm not trying to say that Capers and Landry have anything in common besides being the first coach of an expansion team. I'm saying that McNair has to face the fact that he didn't hire a guy who's going to be not only his first coach but also his first successful coach and, unlike when Tom Landry was starting out with Dallas back in the 60's no fan base today is going to wait 7 years for results.

If Landry was the Cowboys first head coach and the Cowboys had begun play in 2002 like the Texans then Tom would be fired as well and long before he ever got within sniffing distance of a Championship.

I realize I somehow implied that given 7 years Capers might get it right though and I didn't mean to say that at all. My ultimate point though was that for McNair firing Capers means he's got to acknowledge that the Texans got off on the wrong foot. That's got to suck for him because I'm sure he's got very high expectations just like we all do.

Honoring Earl 34
12-08-2005, 03:43 PM
:texflag: I think that was Landry's first job as the head coach . He and Lombardi made the greatest pair of cordinators in NFL history and he was probably all of 40 .
Dom on the other hand has prior experience as a head coach and has a track record .

mustbesix
12-08-2005, 09:57 PM
Charlie Casserly is quite possibly the worst GM in the history of the world. The only good things he has done are getting a 3rd round pick for Drew Henson after spending a 6th rounder on him the year before, and gettting lucky when he drafted LSU's backup running back in the 4th round. That backup running back just happened to turn out into a pretty good starting running back.

Now let's look at where he has failed the team. A 2nd and 3rd round pick for Philip Buchanon. A 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Jason Babin. That is wasting five picks on two players on a team that is supposed to be "building" a team from scratch. And don't forget that the Buchanon trade led to the dumping of Aaron Glenn. Oh yeah, what happened to the team's leading tackler(Jamie Sharper) since the inception of the franchise? Cut! The offensive line is the biggest weakness on this team, yet in 2005 they drafted one lineman(5th rd), none in 2004, two in 2003(4th and 7th rd), and two in 2002(3rd and 4th rd). I just wish McNair would tie Casserly to Dom Capers and throw them under the same bus. Capers is done regardless, but he doesn't deserve nearly the blame that Casserly does. Sure the team stinks, but look at what the GM has given Capers to work with.

ATX_Texan
12-08-2005, 10:46 PM
I just wish McNair would tie Casserly to Dom Capers and throw them under the same bus. Capers is done regardless, but he doesn't deserve nearly the blame that Casserly does. Sure the team stinks, but look at what the GM has given Capers to work with.

You are right on that one. Of course some will just argue that Casserly (who also supposedly built those great Skins teams) was just doing what Capers was telling him.

blockhead83
12-08-2005, 11:31 PM
Casserly is ultimately responsible for all of our personnel decisions, and so he does have a number of bad decisions to his resume during his time with the Texans. On the other hand, as ATX mentioned, there's no telling how much input Capers and his staff had on any number of those pick ups. I think Casserly recently portrayed his job as more of someone who gets what the coaches want. In that light, it's no longer that "Capers did the most with what he was given", it's "Capers did very little with what he asked for". Like I said, I won't shed a tear if Casserly bites the dust, but I also won't be out for blood if we let another coach have a try at better utilizing the talent that we already have.

Players like Steve Foley and Marlon McCree took up space on our bench during most of their time here, but when they were plugged into a different system they suddenly became solid players. It's not Casserly's fault for letting them go if they showed no reason to keep them while they were here. Who's job is it to make the most out of his roster? How many Steve Foley's are sitting on our bench right now? Derick Armstrong anyone?

Nighthawk
12-09-2005, 04:02 AM
You both misunderstand my comparison.

Actually, if I'd noticed it was you posting I probably would have said nothing. I've read and agreed with many of your posts previously.

That said, I live in terror that McNair will keep Casserly, or Capers (there are rumors), or both. I've been a fan of Houston pro footbal since CHarlie Hennigan, Charlie Tolar, and the rest of those guys way back in the day. The day-before-the-day, I guess. SO I can't really bear to think we're going to have more of the same next year.

I also think Carr is a total loss farm, which I understand is (a) a minority opinion, and (b) not an opinion well rearded hereabouts. Nonetheless, he looks, moves, acts, plays, reacts so little like a genuinely good QB that I cannot warm to him at all. He does not look like a "player." But that's me. If they get rid of Casserly and Capers I figure Carr will take care of himself.

ATX_Texan
12-09-2005, 09:10 AM
I think Casserly recently portrayed his job as more of someone who gets what the coaches want. In that light, it's no longer that "Capers did the most with what he was given", it's "Capers did very little with what he asked for".

To me, this is what does not make sense about Casserly. On one hand, the media and some fans continue to proclaim him to be a draft genius, a man who built Super Bowl teams. Yet, the excuse for his less than stellar record here with the Texans is that he is just doing what Capers told him. Would a truly great GM merely follow the direction of a coach that had only two prior winning seasons? A top-notch GM would not have risked an entire draft (Babin) solely based on the recommendation of a coach when there were so many other problems that needed to be addressed. I guess we need to pray that Casserly will be smart enough to replace Capers with a coach that will also do a better job of running the draft for him. It seems like Casserly is great about taking credit for things when things are going great, like the Skins winning Super Bowls. However, he will just as quickly deflect any responsibility when things are not going well. I guess because he comes across as such a know-it-all that people are willing to belive the hype and ignore his failings.