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View Full Version : Who else would have been unhappy if they won today?


supertankman
12-04-2005, 03:38 PM
We gotta secure that number 1 draft pick! :yahoo:

Napa Auto Parts
12-04-2005, 03:40 PM
Me thank God Kyle Boller Saved us today. i feel funny saying Kyle Boller hahahahaha

gg no re
12-04-2005, 03:42 PM
Even bandwagon fans wouldn't support losing.....

Goldeagle
12-04-2005, 03:42 PM
Can you blame Fangio?? He ended up blitzing his Defense when he saw the Prevent was not working. Boller and Fitgerald, MAN, we get beat by BAD Qbs!

GREAT JOB D!!!

ghostlight
12-04-2005, 03:42 PM
I found myself thinking #1 pick as the final seconds ran down. It is bitter sweet!

TexansJunkE
12-04-2005, 03:43 PM
In a sad way, I found myself cheering when Stover made that FG.:crying:

bigcarlos
12-04-2005, 03:43 PM
I was pissed when I saw we had the lead,then turned the radio on to hear the last minute. Im glad we lost, we need that #1 pick. Its just tough love that we have for our team right now.:texflag:

Texans Horror
12-04-2005, 03:47 PM
I have to admit, I still prefer winning, but I know what you mean.

tiger06
12-04-2005, 03:47 PM
I hope we don't blow the #1 pick like we blew the game today

Reddevil63
12-04-2005, 03:48 PM
I guess I can tell the kind of people who would prefer losing since most of the posts here I cant see because the posters are on my block list.

profan
12-04-2005, 03:49 PM
Losers would be pissed if we won today. Nothing good comes from losing. Anyone who is happy the team lost is not a fan of this team plain and simple.

Khari
12-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I never prefer to lose.....I hope they win each game they play...... :tomato: I don't care about next year...only about the game they are playing in now..

OzzO
12-04-2005, 03:51 PM
We must be getting ready to have the perfect draft coming up with all the players available that will right this ship after 1 bad season. Good thing we have the quality GM that quite a few on this board love, with a deep scouting department that has impressed with the decisions made in the past.

Though the win would not have meant anything - I'd prefer a win just to lift the spirits of the players. However, to get no TD's in the game... probably didn't deserve the win, plus all the penalties.

Would I have been pissed with a win? No - but I'm sure 610 would've been filled with the "we lost the #1 pick" callers for my entire drive in tomorrow morning.

FirstTexansFan
12-04-2005, 03:53 PM
So many of you guys are so full of it. Wanting the Texans to lose in order to see a regime change, and a #1 pick is not in any sort of a way a judgement on what type of fan you are of the team. I've been a fan of Houston sports longer than most of you have been born, get real. We want whats best for the city, the team, and ourselves. And there is NOTHING fairweather about that. Save the insults for your Cowboy friends :)

False Start
12-04-2005, 03:56 PM
Im to the point that if we win I'm kinda 50/50 on what to think . A win is nice and all but at this point , it really dosent count for much .

Goldeagle
12-04-2005, 03:59 PM
I just dont care if we win or lose because it is about the Playoffs and the Super Bowl. All I heard from the *****s on 610 to all the local sports shows on TV was how good this team would be and would be pushing for a Playoff bid. Of course now you tune into 610 and watch these shows and they blame the fans and ask "well what do you want?"

It just does not matter anymore. If we win, cool, if we lose, hey better draft pick.

supertankman
12-04-2005, 03:59 PM
Losers would be pissed if we won today. Nothing good comes from losing. Anyone who is happy the team lost is not a fan of this team plain and simple.

Nothing good comes from loosing you loser, how about a superstar that might help this team start winning next year; this season is over regardless if they win all their games, what the hell do you want? them to win the remaining games so Capers and co. keeps his job? We need a overhall and it all starts with new coaching and number one overall pick just like when this team was a expansion, we are starting over fellas!

Grid
12-04-2005, 04:03 PM
What would we have gained by winning? Yay we are 2-10? hooray we beat one of the other worst teams in the league?

we couldnt even have used this victory as proof that we arent as bad as we thought..since the Ravens suck nearly as much as we do.

Win for the sake of winning? sure.. i can understand that.. normally that is my attitude when it comes to competition.. however.. you people who would prefer the win to a loss are not looking at the big picture.

Victory for us isnt an empty W.. victory is whatever it takes to get this franchise back on track to being a REAL and COMPETITIVE football team. Winning against the ravens would have been a LOSS for the franchise.

That first round pick will bring us alot more wins in the future.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 04:03 PM
If you lose $1,000 gambling, is it considered a win when you gain $1,000 on your next bet?

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 04:04 PM
How is it that the Moderators allow threads like this. I mean completely assinine threads dont do anything for this board other than detract from it. Come on moderators this is one of the best boards out there can we keep it that way.

Grid
12-04-2005, 04:08 PM
I dont see how this is an assinine thread? its a very real debate right now.. this is pretty much the most important topic for the Texans franchise at this moment. What is more important.. pointless wins or the #1 pick to jump start us back into competitiveness?


And its more like losing $50 and then winning $5000.. the Ravens victory would have been entirely useless... maybe if it had been against the Colts I have had a different opinion. And Reggie Bush is a huge commodity right now.. we can get a good return for that #1 pick when we trade down.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 04:09 PM
I was really unhappy at people who said they wanted them to lose a couple weeks ago, im sorry, but the only thing good about this is they get a better draft pick (value wise) with every loss. I dont like watching them lose, but something good can come out of it, if you wanna look at it with a positive perspective, this is what I do.

Texans Pride
12-04-2005, 04:10 PM
How is it that the Moderators allow threads like this. I mean completely assinine threads dont do anything for this board other than detract from it. Come on moderators this is one of the best boards out there can we keep it that way.


So we should only be aloud to talk about things that you see fit? Who are you COACH?

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 04:11 PM
Even bandwagon fans wouldn't support losing.....

No you're right, they wouldn't. That's because they don't care as much as the fans who want to see this team turn it around. Bandwagon fans just want to show up and see the wins. They don't care about the losses because when the team loses they're out of there anyway.

You aren't going to turn around a 1-10 (now 1-11) season though are you?

You can turn a franchise around sure but you can't turn a losing season around once it's past a certain point. All you can do is start working on the future and how do you do that? You put young players in there to see what they can do. You figure out where you need help and you start planning on filling those needs through free agency and the draft.

The higher you draft the better player you get. This is all very, very obvious so need I go on?

PapaL
12-04-2005, 04:19 PM
Is 2-14 or maybe even 3-13 going to feel any better then 1-15? Players turn franchises around, not winning an extra games.

Higher draft pick=Value
Value=Better players overall
2-14=Warm gushy feeling inside??

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 04:19 PM
So we should only be aloud to talk about things that you see fit? Who are you COACH?

He is the same guy who thinks Reggie Bush is a waste of a football player and has no skills. He is just mad, because with this loss, it got us a step closer to drafting Bush or someone else for all the non-Bush supporters. He can't stand it.:texflag:

gg no re
12-04-2005, 04:31 PM
Losing seasons can't be turned around on the last four games, but c'mon. You don't go out and say, "Lose team, lose!"

To demand losing for the sake of a top draft pick is just as bad as a bandwagoner fan.

"But what do you expect us to do?!"

Expect losing, but don't demand it.

Praise players who play well, jump on those who don't.

Criticize the coaches, express how you think the team could improve.

But you just don't go up to your terminally ill father and demand, "Die so I can collect the life insurance, pops!"

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 04:40 PM
But you just don't go up to your terminally ill father and demand, "Die so I can collect the life insurance, pops!"
If youre dirt poor, you do. HAHA!

Marcus
12-04-2005, 04:42 PM
I"ll admit it. I was rooting for Baltimore to take the ball downfield and kick that winning FG.

In my mind, regarding the future of the club, a win today would have been a loss, and a loss would have been a win. (Heh, chew on that one!)

ThaShark316
12-04-2005, 04:43 PM
**** wanting to lose....I could care less about a number 1 pick.

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 04:45 PM
Tell me how getting the number 1 pick in every round legitimately turn this team into a winner. I mean are we going to build like Indy. We take a Manning, Edge, Wayne, Freeney. Come on man that takes several drafts and this one is no different. Whomever we get it will not matter if he is the number 1 or 32 as long as the guy produces.

Doom Capers
12-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Even bandwagon fans wouldn't support losing.....

Yeah, the Bengals proved that the past 13 years.

Grid
12-04-2005, 04:49 PM
if you are going to try and argue against the #1 pick..at least put forth the effort to make a valid arguement.

How does having the #1 pick in every round NOT help? how does winning any more games this season help?

It is pretty dang obvious that we are helping ourselves alot more by getting a high draft pick..than by winning pointless victories.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 04:52 PM
I"ll admit it. I was rooting for Baltimore to take the ball downfield and kick that winning FG.

In my mind, regarding the future of the club, a win today would have been a loss, and a loss would have been a win. (Heh, chew on that one!)

I was too. Some of that was desire to see the Texans maintain their hold on the #1 pick but some of it was just me wanting to see if the Ravens could do something very improbable in the last minute. You know how when you don't care much about the teams involved you can flip your loyalty back and forth sometimes to favor the underdog at the moment? That's how I felt about the game today. It was so sad to watch those two teams "try" to play professional football. I made me think of that line from "North Dallas Forty" where Mac Davis character says someone or something (I can't remember) looked like a "three legged cat trying to cover up _____ on a frozen pond". That's what the two offenses looked like trying to score.

Davis had a good game. You notice though that there is no correlation between the Texans winning and Davis having a good game. You know how you're always seeing announcers drag out that "The Hackensack Doorknobs are 35-2 when Kowalski gets a hundred yards" line? Nobody will ever say that about Domanick Davis and the Houston Texans.

We're 3-7 when he gets his hundred.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 04:53 PM
I'm not arguing against the no. 1 pick. I would LIKE to have it, but not this way!

I'm arguing against the mentality that we should support our current state of losing, especially when it comes to close games.

Grid
12-04-2005, 04:57 PM
im not going to complain about our losing when that is the best thing we could do right now.

I already support the firing of our coaching staff and Casserly (though id like to keep Marciano and Hoke).. I dont really have anything left to complain about until i see what our new coaching staff can do with our players.

Im not gonna cheer on the opposing team.. but im not gonna cheer for a Texans victory either.. I want that valuable #1 overall pick.

HoustonFan
12-04-2005, 04:58 PM
I guess in order to secure that #1 pick, gotta pull for the Packers, Jets, and 49ers, huh?

49ers are up for now. Green Bay is still hangng around at 2-10, now. Jets are messing up against New England - I guess that is to be expected.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 04:59 PM
I'm not arguing against the no. 1 pick. I would LIKE to have it, but not this way!

I'm arguing against the mentality that we should support our current state of losing, especially when it comes to close games.

Not support. Do you think I'd be dying to see Dom Capers and his staff sent packing if I "supported" what's happening? I say "endure" it because it will make this team better in the long run. Enjoy it when they do things right and take pleasure in the signs that they really aren't this bad when those signs appear but don't overestimate the value of the second "W" of the season when it's not coming until December. A team in that situation is rebuilding already whether it looks like it or not.

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 05:00 PM
if you are going to try and argue against the #1 pick..at least put forth the effort to make a valid arguement.

How does having the #1 pick in every round NOT help? how does winning any more games this season help?

It is pretty dang obvious that we are helping ourselves alot more by getting a high draft pick..than by winning pointless victories.


1. Winning games builds confidence and report for the next season.
2. Some players realize that we are not just a team of losers and think about coming to the Texans when they get a new staff.
3. Cap space is conserved and used on proven players instead of calculated risks
4. Finally, you get the monkey off your back and start a snowball toward the "going right" for us

These are just four reasons why you want to win games. I seem to remember the Colts being terrible after they got Manning for two years, but consistent high picks did nothing for them, it was consistent quality picks that made their team into what it is today. The number 1 pick is a high paid risk that is hard to get away from kinda like pocket Kings. Quality should be the objective not number 1 picks in every round.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 05:01 PM
I guess in order to secure that #1 pick, gotta pull for the Packers, Jets, and 49ers, huh?

49ers are up for now. Green Bay is still hangng around at 2-10, now. Jets are messing up against New England - I guess that is to be expected.

I wish those other teams would start winning some games. Then I'd feel 100% good if the Texans won a few more. Don't anybody think I don't like watching Texans wins. I do.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 05:02 PM
The last #1 we had really worked out for us.

Grid
12-04-2005, 05:06 PM
we can worry about confidence when our new coaching staff is here. they will be learning a new system anyway.

and beating teams as bad as us doesnt prove anything.


as for Carr not working for us.. that is debatable. he has issues now but if he hadnt been sacked 200+ times it could have gone alot different.

Gunbuny
12-04-2005, 05:07 PM
Actually, the higher the draft pick, the higher the risk and the bigger the cap hit oh, abd the bigger the signing bonus. I will make this simple for all of you who think that the first pick is worth laying down and tanking the rest of the season. I will only go back a few years to like 1997 to illustrate my point. Detroit is so happy with their investment in Joey Harrington, as are the AZ Cards with their really big investment in Wendall Bryant in the same year. Both were drafted in top 10 in the first round, the players hit the lottery, the teams just got to pay a lot of money. here is a list of all the top 10 draft picks who were supposed to be such "sure things" but basically committed larceny everytime they cashed or are still cashing their really big paychecks.

Joey Harrington-Detroit is ready to string him up.
Wendall Bryant-He still gets no playing time
Gerard Warren-He is doing so well-FOR ANOTHER TEAM!!
David Terrell-The Bears fans would probably speed up if he were in the middle of the road.
Koren Robinson-Repeat after me: "My name is Koren and I am an addict"
Santana Moss-He got traded to Washington
Courtney Brown-He is very happy in Denver. Only thing is Cleveland drafted him
La VAr Arrington-He can't get playing time for a HOF Coach
Peter Warrick-Buffalo and Atlanta are probably still bitter about this guy.
Plaxico Burress-He isn't even the best receiver on the team he left Pittsburgh for.
Tim Couch-Are you seeing a trend in Cleveland??
Akili Smith-He couldn't even make it in Europe.
Ricky Williams-He was good when you didn't drug-test him.
David Boston-If Congress would only pass their performance-enhancing law, the NFl would be rid of this guy forever.
Claiborne
Ryan Leaf-NUFF SAID!!!
Andre Wadsworth-Are you seeing a trend with the Cards??
Curtis Enis-If Bush blows out his ACL, he can be like this guy.
Kyle Turley-I heard he thinks he's a rock-star now. Well, with that big signing bonus he got, he lives like one.
Duane Starks-He can't get playing time on DB-starved NE roster

My point is having a top10 draft pick only guarantees you will be shook down by some snake-oil salesman like Drew Rosenhaus for millions of dollars and they are non-refundable!!! We have a good and productive running back in DD. Bush never has more than roughly 20 carries a game and USC has one of the best O-lines in the nation. Unlike other teams with really bad offensive lines, DD still gets 1000 rushing yards a season. Does anyone know if Bush can even take the punishment of 30 carries a game or equal DD's production if we continue to use the bargain basement to put together our offensive line? Do you know why the teams that always win keep winning?? They draft what they need, not the flashiest player on the board. This team needs to spend that 1st rd pick on a offensive linemen because good teams don't let good offensive linemen hit the free-agent market except the nitwits in Green Bay and look at their record. :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Gunbunny you talk to much sense. Right now you are only allowed to post with emotion, please stop making sense.

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 05:12 PM
Gunbuny this is one of the best posts I have seen on this board. Thank you for clever illustration of this point, but I wish you would have showed the comparison to hits and misses in just one first round of the draft. You would be suprised how many guys are enjoying their new found millions for being workout warriors or big time prospects.

Grid
12-04-2005, 05:13 PM
the problem with 1st round picks isnt that they are busts.

thats just... stupid. Thats like giving a monkey a million dollars and then blaming it on the money when he blows it on bananas.

The team with the 1st pick usually drafts a bust because they are a bad team with a bad GM that doesnt know what he is doing.

we will have a new GM.. and (god willing) he is going to be very competent.. and he will know what to do with the first overall pick.

I am personally hoping that we trade down so that we can fill alot more holes.. but even if we dont.. a competent GM will take advantage of having the pick of the litter and get the best player available in the draft.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:15 PM
3. Cap space is conserved and used on proven players instead of calculated risks


Oh ya, I see what you mean, the #1 pick is too risky but the 167th pick is garanteed everytime. Oh ya, thats what i was thinking, the 212th pick is a proven player, draft in the 200's, because they are all proven and dont cost that much. Wow! You still have no clue what you are talking about. Someone help COACH!!!

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 05:16 PM
Man how is it you take something out of context and then turn it into emotional spin. You are worst than a politician. 179 posts and you still have not made a quality post. Someone should help you.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 05:17 PM
Oh ya, I see what you mean, the #1 pick is too risky but the 167th pick is garanteed everytime. Oh ya, thats what i was thinking, the 212th pick is a proven player, draft in the 200's, because they are all proven and dont cost that much. Wow! You still have no clue what you are talking about. Someone help COACH!!!

Coach does not need help replying to your knowledge base.

Peldon
12-04-2005, 05:18 PM
Oh ya, I see what you mean, the #1 pick is too risky but the 167th pick is garanteed everytime. Oh ya, thats what i was thinking, the 212th pick is a proven player, draft in the 200's, because they are all proven and dont cost that much.

Yeah because we would really trade our #1 for a 167 and a 212.:sarcasm:

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:20 PM
Actually, the higher the draft pick, the higher the risk and the bigger the cap hit oh, abd the bigger the signing bonus. I will make this simple for all of you who think that the first pick is worth laying down and tanking the rest of the season. I will only go back a few years to like 1997 to illustrate my point. Detroit is so happy with their investment in Joey Harrington, as are the AZ Cards with their really big investment in Wendall Bryant in the same year. Both were drafted in top 10 in the first round, the players hit the lottery, the teams just got to pay a lot of money. here is a list of all the top 10 draft picks who were supposed to be such "sure things" but basically committed larceny everytime they cashed or are still cashing their really big paychecks.

Joey Harrington-Detroit is ready to string him up.
Wendall Bryant-He still gets no playing time
Gerard Warren-He is doing so well-FOR ANOTHER TEAM!!
David Terrell-The Bears fans would probably speed up if he were in the middle of the road.
Koren Robinson-Repeat after me: "My name is Koren and I am an addict"
Santana Moss-He got traded to Washington
Courtney Brown-He is very happy in Denver. Only thing is Cleveland drafted him
La VAr Arrington-He can't get playing time for a HOF Coach
Peter Warrick-Buffalo and Atlanta are probably still bitter about this guy.
Plaxico Burress-He isn't even the best receiver on the team he left Pittsburgh for.
Tim Couch-Are you seeing a trend in Cleveland??
Akili Smith-He couldn't even make it in Europe.
Ricky Williams-He was good when you didn't drug-test him.
David Boston-If Congress would only pass their performance-enhancing law, the NFl would be rid of this guy forever.
Claiborne
Ryan Leaf-NUFF SAID!!!
Andre Wadsworth-Are you seeing a trend with the Cards??
Curtis Enis-If Bush blows out his ACL, he can be like this guy.
Kyle Turley-I heard he thinks he's a rock-star now. Well, with that big signing bonus he got, he lives like one.
Duane Starks-He can't get playing time on DB-starved NE roster

My point is having a top10 draft pick only guarantees you will be shook down by some snake-oil salesman like Drew Rosenhaus for millions of dollars and they are non-refundable!!! We have a good and productive running back in DD. Bush never has more than roughly 20 carries a game and USC has one of the best O-lines in the nation. Unlike other teams with really bad offensive lines, DD still gets 1000 rushing yards a season. Does anyone know if Bush can even take the punishment of 30 carries a game or equal DD's production if we continue to use the bargain basement to put together our offensive line? Do you know why the teams that always win keep winning?? They draft what they need, not the flashiest player on the board. This team needs to spend that 1st rd pick on a offensive linemen because good teams don't let good offensive linemen hit the free-agent market except the nitwits in Green Bay and look at their record. :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall

19 players out of 90, top ten players drafted in the first round since 1997, thats not very good evidence that top 10 drafted players are a bust, whats the reasoning?

Grid
12-04-2005, 05:20 PM
well its true.. yall are trying to say that the #1 pick is bad to have because players there are busts and get paid more.. thats just stupid.

why dont we put together a database and figure out at which point a good player was most often drafted.. then trade down to that spot..cause that way we have the best chance of getting a good player..right?


WRONG. Yall are acting like there is some mystical magical property associated with some draft picks.. as though getting a player at one point guarantees a good player..and at another they suck.

having the #1 pick means you get YOUR PLAYER.. the best player available that you want. If your scouts and GM suck (a problem most #1 overall teams have).. then your pick will suck.. if your scouts and GM dont suck (hopefully the case after we clean house).. then having the #1 overall means you get a great player.

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 05:23 PM
No one is saying the number 1 pick is bad other than that it means you are a terrible team and likely to be that way for a while. We are trying to make the point that the people who are in the minority of wanting the number 1 pick have not really thought it out very well. The number 1 pick is not an award it is a consolation prize.

Grid
12-04-2005, 05:24 PM
well ill take the consolation prize over a slap on the *** and a "better luck next year"

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:26 PM
Coach does not need help replying to your knowledge base.

My point is that any player taken in the draft is a risk, you have a better chance of drafting a better player out of college with a higher pick. Not every player will be a bust or a Hall of Famer. If Mr. Bush comes out this year, the value of the first pick will probably be worth far more than a #1 pick ever has. Dont you want that opportunity to draft or trade for that kind of value? The only way to do that is to lose, period.

Coach C.
12-04-2005, 05:30 PM
uhcoug do you honestly believe that Reggie Bush is a better prospect than Eli or Peyton Manning. Why do you even post man? No seriously I want an intelligent answer to that.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:30 PM
No one is saying the number 1 pick is bad other than that it means you are a terrible team and likely to be that way for a while. We are trying to make the point that the people who are in the minority of wanting the number 1 pick have not really thought it out very well. The number 1 pick is not an award it is a consolation prize.

If you havent figured out we are a terrible team, you need help. Just relax, let us lose, and gives us are darn consolation prize. I want us to have a prize.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 05:32 PM
My point is that any player taken in the draft is a risk, you have a better chance of drafting a better player out of college with a higher pick. Not every player will be a bust or a Hall of Famer. If Mr. Bush comes out this year, the value of the first pick will probably be worth far more than a #1 pick ever has. Dont you want that opportunity to draft or trade for that kind of value? The only way to do that is to lose, period.

Since you want to be a loser at least root for your team to win and allow them to back into the first pick by others winning more games.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Prize makes it sound like we were in position to win something, which we never were.

I think "federal aid" sounds better.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 05:37 PM
So Bush beats out Michael Vick and LaDanian Tomlinson.... cool.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:47 PM
uhcoug do you honestly believe that Reggie Bush is a better prospect than Eli or Peyton Manning. Why do you even post man? No seriously I want an intelligent answer to that.
What do you have against the kid, hes never in trouble, he is smart, he will grad in 3 years, and he is a superstar track guy. Not only that, he is the most exciting player to watch in college today. If you dont see it, then I cant help you. I will stop this, because this isnt solving anything. I have my opinion and you have yours, so we can leave it at that.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 05:50 PM
anyway way time to answer your questions eventhough you could not answer my one question.

I have seen game film and televised games of R. Bush and he is a great college player and prospect. He is not better than Barry Sanders, LT, OJ, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, G.P., or even the undersized Emmit Smith.

If you have any other questions I am here all night.

Im not saying he is better than the greatest running back in history. In my opinion it was Barry. All im saying, is from what i see and what i hear and what i read, he will be a very hot commodity to have. So by us losing, it gives us the chance to use the value of the #1 pick for what ever the texans want to do with it.

Wolf
12-04-2005, 05:52 PM
I personally don't care if the Texans take Bush or not.. with our OL we would ruin him.

I say lets beef up the line and make a run at Adrian Peterson in a couple of years :drool:

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 05:56 PM
Wolf don't assume that the Texans run block as bad as they pass protect. That would be a mistake. That's like saying Domanick Davis got 155 yards today all on his own. Think about that for a moment. You know that Davis is nowhere near talented enough to break out for 155 yards in a game without some blocking.

The line that gets Domanick Davis 1,100 or so yards per season will get Reggie Bush somewhere in the fourteen to fifteen hundred range and that is enough of a running game to keep defenses honest.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 05:59 PM
What's the point of keeping defenses honest if they can just sack the QB with a 4 man rush....

Wolf
12-04-2005, 06:00 PM
Wolf don't assume that the Texans run block as bad as they pass protect. That would be a mistake. That's like saying Domanick Davis got 155 yards today all on his own. Think about that for a moment. You know that Davis is nowhere near talented enough to break out for 155 yards in a game without some blocking.

The line that gets Domanick Davis 1,100 or so yards per season will get Reggie Bush somewhere in the fourteen to fifteen hundred range and that is enough of a running game to keep defenses honest.


very,very true

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 06:00 PM
I am not touching this argument with a ten foot pole. :)

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 06:05 PM
I need this thread to please steer clear of personal attacks and stay at least somewhat on topic please.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 06:07 PM
It is simple. The value of the #1 pick this year with two heisman trophy winners possibly entering the draft is GIANT!!! Winning does nothing but pour salt on a wound that is healing. If you win and get like the number 4 pick, you could lose the player you want badly or even the value of a huge trade this year. I wouldnt doubt that trading the number 1 pick this year will have a return value of a 1st and 2nd round pick and a 1st round pick later. By getting picks with that value out of a trade, you can place a fat band-aid over the wound and begin to become a winning organization.

ghostlight
12-04-2005, 06:10 PM
Does anybody remember the OL that the Oilers built through the draft. We have the chance to do that with a trade of the#1 pick. A OL like that will last 10yrs. and provide protection for the life span of 2 OB's and several RB's.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 06:15 PM
See I tend to agree with that uhcougar08. On the one hand yes, I'd personally like to see them draft Bush. That's what I want to do with the pick but then it's not my decision so I'm not going to come unglued if they don't do it. If they trade the pick then that's fine too. The point is even if they don't use the pick on Bush he's going to be the guy who generates the really juicy trade.

Leinhart could possibly entice a team to trade up to get him but it seems to me like this years draft is going to be the Reggie Bush show. He's the one that everyone is saying insane things about. He's the guy that some GM is going to fall in love with. Yeah sure, we're fans and we fall in love with players too easily. Don't forget though that GM's around the league do it too. If the Texans pass on Bush then maybe years down the road you and I will be writing endless "They should have taken Reggie Bush.....And Derrick Johnson" posts on the board but I sure hope we're not. I hope that if we make that trade down then we get some value from it.

Gunbuny
12-04-2005, 06:23 PM
Ok, my point about having a top10 pick in the first round is that your failures are much more costly and put you even deeper into what some would call "Salary Cap Pergatory" when you finally decide to cut your losses, look at the teams that consistly draft very high. They are losing teams for several years. Personally, I am not so sure that we are going to get a new GM. I am sure we will be getting a new Head Coach. I don't think we are going to see a change in the scouting staff. I think Casserly has rode the coattails of Bobby Beathard, and Joe Gibbs. I think he comes off as prepared and a good judge of talent, but the 1st 4 yrs of this franchise's drafting, free-agent signings, trades, and who has been released has proven that is not the case. I have a feeling that Casserly is going to fear for his job, run Capers outta town, and try to get season-ticket-holders to renew and more butts in the seats by drafting Reggie Bush. Bush will get here, he will be expected to carry the rock 30 times a game like every other NFL RB. Bush will blow out his ACL and there go all our hopes of winning because we pinned them on a RB we did not need. I am not saying that 1st rd picks are all bad, i was trying to show how the "can't miss", flashy, "he will sell tickets", draft picks usually fail miserably when you should have drafted the best player that fits your need. Pittsburgh, Indy, and NE are probably the best teams at finding talent (in positions they need) and then drafting them to fit those needs. I like Travis Johnson, but we did not need Travis Johnson, we needed Alex Barron or Jammal Brown or an offensive lineman who could keep Carr from running for his life on every pass play. Enough with the cool picks, we need to draft according to our short-falls. I just think if we draft Bush, we will be getting the next Ryan Leaf, not because of his attitude, but because he is not a good fit for this team. We have no line and since Bush is listed as being 6ft tall, he won't be as good at hiding behind our big, but porous line to find holes. DD is listed as 5'9". I think that is partly why DD is successful in our offense. I understand and respect everyone's passion about this team. I understand you want and feel that this is what we need to become respectable and put together some wins to finally make the play-offs. I just do not agree.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 06:27 PM
:texflag: The cash cow is Lienert ... QBs bring the best trades . Eli and Peyton were great prospects but it is'nt a stretch to say Bush is a better college player .

Back to Matty , he needs to have a good game against Texas to put premium value on himself . I want Texas to win but Matty needs to light it up . Even if San Fran takes Bush with the 1st the Matt pick is the lottery ticket .

HJam72
12-04-2005, 06:29 PM
I think that trading that #1 pick for good value is what we need to become respectable and have a playoff run (at some point anyway).

HJam72
12-04-2005, 06:31 PM
:texflag: Even if San Fran takes Bush with the 1st the Matt pick is the lottery ticket .

Not if everyone watches him run for his life on our team. :cool:

I guess you meant the pick itself.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 06:33 PM
:texflag: :tv: I think we came up with 40% is a good percentage of your draft actually panning out . I guess though its better to have your first rounders hit over your sixth round .

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 06:35 PM
:texflag: I don't want Matty ... then we get Nick Lachey minus Jessica . The pick might be worth more if he's on the board .

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 06:45 PM
:texflag: I don't want Matty ... then we get Nick Lachey minus Jessica . The pick might be worth more if he's on the board .
FYI Lechey doesn't have Jessica anymore anyways.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 06:45 PM
What's the point of keeping defenses honest if they can just sack the QB with a 4 man rush....

Do I really have to answer that? If you can run the ball consistently then that keeps you from getting into as many obvious passing downs and it keeps the defense from just pinning their ears back and knowing that the QB is going to be there when they get past their man.

A real, consistent running game will do wonders for the pass protection. That used to be common knowledge.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 06:47 PM
I need this thread to please steer clear of personal attacks and stay at least somewhat on topic please.

I find it ridiculous that people would be "pissed that we won a game", but I will leave it at that and not say anything more about said people.

Gunbuny
12-04-2005, 06:47 PM
Personally I hope we can get a trade with the Cards done so they can get Leinert They need some one to replace Warner in a year or so and get more picks and a high enough 1st rd pick to grab "Brick" Ferguson out of Virginia as the cornerstone of our offensive line for the next 10yrs. I like everything about this guy. He plays well in a crowd, or in open space, he is athletic, not just a great big dude who weighs 300+ lbs. He is more of a Denver Broncos -type lineman who is athletic and a good blocker technique-wise. Even his nickname works anybody who answers to "Brick" can be on my roster!

gg no re
12-04-2005, 06:58 PM
Do I really have to answer that? If you can run the ball consistently then that keeps you from getting into as many obvious passing downs and it keeps the defense from just pinning their ears back and knowing that the QB is going to be there when they get past their man.

A real, consistent running game will do wonders for the pass protection. That used to be common knowledge.That assumes if decent pass protection exists.

I assumed that a running game kept defenses from blitzing on the wrong plays, set up the play action, and gave favorable matchups.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 07:00 PM
Personally I hope we can get a trade with the Cards done so they can get Leinert They need some one to replace Warner in a year or so and get more picks and a high enough 1st rd pick to grab "Brick" Ferguson out of Virginia as the cornerstone of our offensive line for the next 10yrs. I like everything about this guy. He plays well in a crowd, or in open space, he is athletic, not just a great big dude who weighs 300+ lbs. He is more of a Denver Broncos -type lineman who is athletic and a good blocker technique-wise. Even his nickname works anybody who answers to "Brick" can be on my roster!

He doesn't weigh more than 300 pounds and never has. He definitely needs to gain 20 pounds or more and his mobility may decrease a little with that. I personally like Winston better as he is already bigger and stronger, likewise very athletic (probably not quite as quick as Ferguson) and can play more positions along the line than Ferguson can in case we need to move people around. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cards drafted Ferguson since they definitely need OLine help and have been looking to get a LT so they can move Leonard Davis back to LG.

Wolf
12-04-2005, 07:04 PM
I guess it is the age old question .. which came first ..the trailer park or the tornado..

Casserly brings in the players ..Capers is to bring them to their full potential. I have a feeling that we are a lot more talented then what we see on the field. I think Capers did a heck of a job the first year keeping us in games but now our talent on the club has exceeded the talent of the coaching staff

My problem with our drafting is that we used a #1 pick overall on a gunslinging QB and a #3 in the first round on a WR that can make plays.. building around those 2 we have failed (i.e. have an OL to protect the QB and #2 WR/TE) To me Capers is a 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of coach but we didn't draft to his offensive philosophy. I am not regretting us getting AJ and Carr ... we have had a coaching staff that doesn't know how to get the best out of the players we have. (defensive side too) .. maybe it is a trust issue of what Carr can or cannot do with Capers.Defensively... we had a veteran crew (except for this year) and 4 years waiting I am still looking for a unit that rivals Capers Steeler days .. Now I think the mentality of the team is that we are going to lose anyway and so we have concentration lapse and we lack confidence.

HJam72
12-04-2005, 07:07 PM
It's going to be really interesting to see how, when, and with who this team starts to really get better.

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 07:08 PM
That assumes if decent pass protection exists.

I assumed that a running game kept defenses from blitzing on the wrong plays, set up the play action, and gave favorable matchups.

Obviously it's better if you can protect your QB (decent pass protection exists). Even if you are not good at it though a running game that can keep you more often than not in 3rd and short and out of obvious passing downs will keep you from being the main course at the sack buffet.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 07:09 PM
That assumes if decent pass protection exists.

I assumed that a running game kept defenses from blitzing on the wrong plays, set up the play action, and gave favorable matchups.

Where was the play action today? Especially with Davis running so well.

gg no re
12-04-2005, 07:11 PM
Hervo: I'll agree with that point.

It's going to be really interesting to see how, when, and with who this team starts to really get better.I think if we want to take shortcuts... look at what Carolina did post-Capers, then condense that into one offseason.

Kaiser: Yeah, WHERE WAS OUR PLAYACTION PLAYS?

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 07:17 PM
Where was the play action today? Especially with Davis running so well.

They couldn't run it because they wouldn't have had time to get the ball off after a run fake for 90% of the game. Besides, running play action would be a logical call to get teams off balance since we look to run so much.

Texans_Chick
12-04-2005, 07:38 PM
Always. I am incapable of rooting for a loss.

I TiVOd the game because I had to do other stuff today. I didn't TiVO enough extra and missed everything after the 2 minute mark, and just had to read the recap online. Ayyyyyyyy! I am kinda happy I don't have this week's heartbreak in my memory.

Those players just have to be just ate up. That can't be good for them at all. You play enough sports, you will get some heartbreakers in the mix, but these guys have experienced too many of them.

And peeps around here seem a bit more on edge too. Ten or so simultaneous Bush, Oline, Carr, coaching threads can jump on your last nerve.

Bleh.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 07:44 PM
What good comes out of a win when you are 1-10, now 1-11?

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 07:47 PM
What good comes out of a win when you are 1-10, now 1-11?

That you have a good running back and that you need to spend your 1st round pick on an LT.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 07:56 PM
That you have a good running back and that you need to spend your 1st round pick on an LT.

that did not answer the question.

Texans_Chick
12-04-2005, 08:06 PM
What good comes out of a win when you are 1-10, now 1-11?


Most of our players will be back next year. Even when your record is bad, it feels really good to win games. All things considered, the coaches have done a remarkable job of keeping the lid on this team and playing hard, but losing week after week is just hard for a team to stay together.

Marcus Coleman may be an example of that--being deactivated for the game. The more you lose, and the more you lose in any number of horrible ways, it just has to be bad for the learning process for your young players and bad for whatever reminants of a team you have for next year. The game is both mental and physical and mentally this team has to be just killed.

Football is not just math of 1-15 = 1. The repeated losses run the risk of just ruining players.

And for all the folks that think that a #1 pick and a new coaching staff is going to solve all this losing teams problems, I think actually that is a long shot. There have been some amazing turn arounds in this league, but more often than not, rebuilding takes time. Learning a new system, developing more players, getting people to come to Houston despite being tagged as losers. (And just to preempt some folks here, I am not arguing that the staff shouldn't change, but I am just preaching patience and realism.)

So, given how long it is going to be before we are likely going to see the playoff word flung about, some wins would be a nice thing to see.

Marcus
12-04-2005, 08:24 PM
And for all the folks that think that a #1 pick and a new coaching staff is going to solve all this losing teams problems, I think actually that is a long shot. There have been some amazing turn arounds in this league, but more often than not, rebuilding takes time. Learning a new system, developing more players, getting people to come to Houston despite being tagged as losers.

There are some around here that think we'll be like the San Diego Chargers . . . go from 1-15 to the playoffs next year. They are going to be sooo disappointed. There shouldn't be any more "expectations" for the next 2 or 3 years at least.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2005, 08:29 PM
There are some around here that think we'll be like the San Diego Chargers . . . go from 1-15 to the playoffs next year. They are going to be sooo disappointed. There shouldn't be any more "expectations" for the next 2 or 3 years at least. I wouldn't say that last year we were 7-9. we have players on this team they just need direction and a new coaching staff will bring in a new breath of fresh air. People knock Carr but if you look at his last years stats he was making the step its just been a down year. He isn't the only one every player has had a down year, AJ, Dunta, Coleman, heck I can go all the way accross the board. Capers has lost his players. With the right coaching staff I don't think its going to take 3 years

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 08:29 PM
Marcus Coleman may be an example of that--being deactivated for the game.

Coleman cost us the game against the rams, he spouted off at the mouth and missed some meetings. That is all on him. He has lost a step, that is why he is frustrated.

Babbles
12-04-2005, 08:46 PM
As I have stated in other posts, I really cant tell the difference between the Bush administration and the McNair administration. I was rooting for the loss because if they would have won... the media propoganda would try to inflate Capers credentials, in return giving Mcnair ANY reason to hire Capers next season. Casserley AND Capers are losers, in the very least if the people (fans) can force a vote and remove the head coach and get a legitimate coach it will force Casserley and Mcnairs hand. Question is, who is coming in as Head Coach. Is the city of Houston going to get a legitimate Head Coach or are we going to get stuck with another Scott McClellan PR job... Thats the ultimate question.

uhcougar08
12-04-2005, 08:49 PM
Heres a good one, the people who want Reggie Bush dont mind losing, the ones who dont want him, want us to win. I want us to lose every game from here on out.:texflag:

HJam72
12-04-2005, 08:53 PM
Heres a good one, the people who want Reggie Bush dont mind losing, the ones who dont want him, want us to win.

That's not true in every case. Some of us want to get the Reggie Bush pick to trade it.

Jags&Dawgs
12-04-2005, 09:02 PM
I'm very disappointed in you texans that want to lose just to get the # 1 draft choice, I would want to win no matter what the record is or anything else for that matter.

Texans_Chick
12-04-2005, 09:03 PM
Coleman cost us the game against the rams, he spouted off at the mouth and missed some meetings. That is all on him. He has lost a step, that is why he is frustrated.


The funny thing about sports is sometimes when you try to make plays, they don't work out for you. You shoot the game winning shot, and it falls short. You putt for the win, and end up one revolution from draining it. Anyhow, he was trying to make plays, and uh, it dint work out right.

And he wasn't the only one that cost us the Rams' game. Maybe scoring some points in the second half mighta helped some.

In any event, do you really think that Coleman misses meetings if he is on a team that is getting some wins? You can think of any number of situations where athletes have done all sorts of things to get off of losing teams. Ain't very professional or sportsmanlike or worthy of being a member of a team, but losing sucks rocks. I hate to lose even rec league stuff, I can't imagine what it would be like playing sports was my job and I was losing each week, in ever new horrifying and ghouly ways.

Can you imagine going out week after week, risking your career/health on each play for a team that has one lousy win? I feel horrible for the players right now, and don't want our team to turn into the perenial losers that are just hoping for the messiah each year with the draft, but as a team has no idea how to win games. Each loss has to be torture to these guys, and the Coleman thing is just an example that we as fans can see of how losses are eating up the team. I am sure that there is probably other stuff that we don't see.

So yeah, it is better to be 2-10 versus 1-11. Cuzing losing sucks rocks.

Texans_Chick
12-04-2005, 09:07 PM
As I have stated in other posts, I really cant tell the difference between the Bush administration and the McNair administration. I was rooting for the loss because if they would have won... the media propoganda would try to inflate Capers credentials, in return giving Mcnair ANY reason to hire Capers next season. Casserley AND Capers are losers, in the very least if the people (fans) can force a vote and remove the head coach and get a legitimate coach it will force Casserley and Mcnairs hand. Question is, who is coming in as Head Coach. Is the city of Houston going to get a legitimate Head Coach or are we going to get stuck with another Scott McClellan PR job... Thats the ultimate question.

Too much hyperbole to sort out of this post, but I will say that you don't have to root for losses to get Capers booted. Nobody thinks that Capers has a chance of staying after this year. Nobody. OK, maybe before this loss Foxsports had it at 500-1.

Powerball winning probably has better odds, prolly.

Grid
12-04-2005, 09:16 PM
I dont want Reggie Bush and im hoping we keep losing. there are alot of teams out there who DO want Reggie Bush or Lienart.. and if we own #1 overall..we can write our own ticket.

I see us getting a big return when we trade down from the #1.

Wolf
12-04-2005, 09:25 PM
Heres a good one, the people who want Reggie Bush dont mind losing, the ones who dont want him, want us to win. I want us to lose every game from here on out.:texflag:


So what do you do if we got Reggie Bush and are still losing? hope we lose again to get VY or some other "stud" player that comes out in 2007 draft?

Speedy
12-04-2005, 09:28 PM
Any fan who is happy that their team loses, isn't much of a fan. PERIOD!! You people started talking #1 pick after 3 games. Go away already.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2005, 09:54 PM
Any fan who is happy that their team loses, isn't much of a fan. PERIOD!! You people started talking #1 pick after 3 games. Go away already. maybe those fans are the most realistic fans. I have read through this thread and laughed when people said that the fans that were happy with a loss are bandwagon fans are aren't true fans. HELLO PEOPLE anybody and everybody who will take time out of their schedule and type on this board about a 1-11 again 1-11 team is a true fan, there aren't any bandwagon fans the bandwagon is broken and is sitting on blocks. Also those who say if we win the rest of our games we can take momentum into the offseason. Momentum doesn't carry for 7 months, we have nothing to gain. The only thing that can result in us winning the rest of our games is we possibly retain our coaching staff, which have proven the last 3 years they can't get the job done. Wether you want to draft bush or trade down your rooting for the #1 ovrl. pick. There hasn't been this much buzz in the top of the draft in quite some time. If we do trade down (which if given the right deal I wouldn't be to upset about it) we will be given the deal of a lifetime. At this point we have absolutely nothing to gain be winning except losing leverage in the draft and options that we can do in the future.

Gunbuny
12-04-2005, 10:15 PM
I just can't get excited about losing in order to snag a better draft pick. All those of you who want us to keep losing in order to grab the 1st pick overall, answer this question: If Dom Capers and David Carr came out at a post-game press-conference and announced that they were intentionally tanking games to secure the overall pick, would you want to keep them both in their respective positions and praise them for them insightfulness, or would you race to this message board screaming for their heads on a platter. Be honest, would this make you run out and snap up tix for the next game or the next season for that matter, or send McNair hate mail??:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall

Carr Bombed
12-04-2005, 10:22 PM
I just can't get excited about losing in order to snag a better draft pick. All those of you who want us to keep losing in order to grab the 1st pick overall, answer this question: If Dom Capers and David Carr came out at a post-game press-conference and announced that they were intentionally tanking games to secure the overall pick, would you want to keep them both in their respective positions and praise them for them insightfulness, or would you race to this message board screaming for their heads on a platter. Be honest, would this make you run out and snap up tix for the next game or the next season for that matter, or send McNair hate mail??:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall That is irrevilent teams don't announce that they are going to tank games. The point is does it benifet us to win or lose thats the point. Does it benifet us to hold the one spot where there will be a number of teams willing to break the bank to move up if we don't decide to make the selection. Thats the point

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 10:23 PM
Losers would be pissed if we won today. Nothing good comes from losing. Anyone who is happy the team lost is not a fan of this team plain and simple.

Well, I was rooting for Baltimore today. There are two types of fans in my opinion. One group roots for a team that is 1-10 to win some games for pride I guess. These fans live in the moment. The other group of fans is rooting for the 1-15 record for the first overall pick and perhaps the firing of Capers and other staff and for changes in the players. I belong in this group. We are deffinatley fans no matter what you say because we are looking towards the future. This year is shot and why win if losing will improve us in the long run.

Your Faithful Texans Fan,

Dan

P.S. I bought two tickets on Ebay and flew all the way from Connecticut to Texas to see the Texans play the Colts. If I am not a fan, I don't know who is. Also, I was rooting for the Texans that day.

Gunbuny
12-04-2005, 10:37 PM
That is irrevilent teams don't announce that they are going to tank games. The point is does it benifet us to win or lose thats the point. Does it benifet us to hold the one spot where there will be a number of teams willing to break the bank to move up if we don't decide to make the selection. Thats the point


No, my fellow fan, it is very irrelevant because no fan (I include you and all others who feel grabbing that top pick is more important than anything else right now.) would accept that mentality in the team especially the head coach. If you are truly willing to accept that attitude from the coaching staff, then ok I drop the point, but if you are not ok with Capers, McNair, Casserly and the rest of the coaching staff making that statement, there is a really big hole/inconsistancy in your argument. They would never come out and make that statement because it would NEVER be ok to say that. If we won't tolerate it out of the organization, why should we, as fans ,be that way?

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 10:38 PM
Well, I was rooting for Baltimore today. There are two types of fans in my opinion. One group roots for a team that is 1-10 to win some games for pride I guess. These fans live in the moment. The other group of fans is rooting for the 1-15 record for the first overall pick and perhaps the firing of Capers and other staff and for changes in the players. I belong in this group. We are deffinatley fans no matter what you say because we are looking towards the future. This year is shot and why win if losing will improve us in the long run.

Your Faithful Texans Fan,

Dan

P.S. I bought two tickets on Ebay and flew all the way from Connecticut to Texas to see the Texans play the Colts. If I am not a fan, I don't know who is. Also, I was rooting for the Texans that day.

If you were seriously rooting for Baltimore against the Texans then I do not consider you a fan. Trust me winning a few games at the end of the year will not save Capers job and I understand you want positive changes to be made in this organization, but losing games does not help us and hoping that we lose games does not speak well of the quality fans that we have. Why should the players want to win for fans like that?

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 10:47 PM
Okay my bad, what I meant to say was I was rooting for the Texans to keep it close and make it a game, but still in the end lose. And why should the players want to win for us? IDK, cause they are getting payed perhaps? Jobs are on the line and at this point they aren't winning for the fans, they are winning for themselves, but nvm, they aren't winning at all. And please don't tell me I am not a fan when i sit in front of my TV for 3+ hours every sunday in one of my three jerseys, wearing one of my two hats, sitting in my Texans lawn chair, with my texans blanket that i got at the battle red day game, and my texans pillow on DIRECT TV... thanks oh yeah, i'll be there when they get to the superbowl

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 10:48 PM
and another thing, if the players liked us so much and wanted to win for us so badly... then why didnt they?

Carr Bombed
12-04-2005, 10:51 PM
No, my fellow fan, it is very irrelevant because no fan (I include you and all others who feel grabbing that top pick is more important than anything else right now.) would accept that mentality in the team especially the head coach. If you are truly willing to accept that attitude from the coaching staff, then ok I drop the point, but if you are not ok with Capers, McNair, Casserly and the rest of the coaching staff making that statement, there is a really big hole/inconsistancy in your argument. They would never come out and make that statement because it would NEVER be ok to say that. If we won't tolerate it out of the organization, why should we, as fans ,be that way? I really don't understand the argument your trying to get across. Its like woulda shoulda coulda or what if. What if Capers and Carr said this or What if capers and carr said that, the point is it aint going to happen and has never happened in the history of the nfl and will never happen, so why even discuss it. If that did happen we would go to a draft like the NBA, remember the rockets being accused of tanking games. Again the discussion comes down to whether you believe it would be in the best interest of the texans to have the top pick or not. It has nothing to do with fantasy press confrences and statements that would never happen. Hell last night I had a dream that me and jessica alba ah "lived happily ever" is it going to happen not in this lifetime so its a mute point.

Nighthawk
12-04-2005, 10:53 PM
Ahere is a list of all the top 10 draft picks who were supposed to be such "sure things" but basically committed larceny everytime they cashed or are still cashing their really big paychecks.

Joey Harrington-Detroit is ready to string him up.
Wendall Bryant-He still gets no playing time
Gerard Warren-He is doing so well-FOR ANOTHER TEAM!!
David Terrell-The Bears fans would probably speed up if he were in the middle of the road.
Koren Robinson-Repeat after me: "My name is Koren and I am an addict"
Santana Moss-He got traded to Washington
Courtney Brown-He is very happy in Denver. Only thing is Cleveland drafted him
La VAr Arrington-He can't get playing time for a HOF Coach
Peter Warrick-Buffalo and Atlanta are probably still bitter about this guy.
Plaxico Burress-He isn't even the best receiver on the team he left Pittsburgh for.
Tim Couch-Are you seeing a trend in Cleveland??
Akili Smith-He couldn't even make it in Europe.
Ricky Williams-He was good when you didn't drug-test him.
David Boston-If Congress would only pass their performance-enhancing law, the NFl would be rid of this guy forever.
Claiborne
Ryan Leaf-NUFF SAID!!!
Andre Wadsworth-Are you seeing a trend with the Cards??
Curtis Enis-If Bush blows out his ACL, he can be like this guy.
Kyle Turley-I heard he thinks he's a rock-star now. Well, with that big signing bonus he got, he lives like one.
Duane Starks-He can't get playing time on DB-starved NE roster


Why David Carr is NOT on this list is beyond me. We should get the number 1 pick in the draft and trade it to the highest bidder--two #1s and a #2 sounds about right. 8th, 24th, 40th. Plus ours.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 10:56 PM
Okay my bad, what I meant to say was I was rooting for the Texans to keep it close and make it a game, but still in the end lose. And why should the players want to win for us? IDK, cause they are getting payed perhaps? Jobs are on the line and at this point they aren't winning for the fans, they are winning for themselves, but nvm, they aren't winning at all. And please don't tell me I am not a fan when i sit in front of my TV for 3+ hours every sunday in one of my three jerseys, wearing one of my two hats, sitting in my Texans lawn chair, with my texans blanket that i got at the battle red day game, and my texans pillow on DIRECT TV... thanks oh yeah, i'll be there when they get to the superbowl

Why do you bother watching if you want them to lose? Yes players play for their paycheck and because they have pride and want to win, but players should also play to win for their fans since ultimately they are the ones that generate the money for the NFL and they are the ones that show up with 70,000+ people to cheer them on every week, but I wouldn't give a rip about playing for fans that want you to go ahead and lose if you're having an off year. Oh yeah, it's great to know you'll be there when they are winning. Surprised some of you people haven't jumped on the Colts bandwagon for the year.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2005, 10:56 PM
If you were seriously rooting for Baltimore against the Texans then I do not consider you a fan. Trust me winning a few games at the end of the year will not save Capers job and I understand you want positive changes to be made in this organization, but losing games does not help us and hoping that we lose games does not speak well of the quality fans that we have. Why should the players want to win for fans like that?

Wrong. How does having the #1 ovrl pick not help you. Whether you take the best player of trade down which can bring you numerous players that can help you turn your franchise around. In the scheme of things history isn't going to hold a different opinion on a 1 or 2-14 record, losing is losing, but history can look back on a draft and say that was the draft that turned the "team" around. Hello Texan fans, no matter what we do we will have a losing season. The only thing we can control is what order we draft in, in hopes we can get things turned around.

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 11:02 PM
Why do you bother watching if you want them to lose? Yes players play for their paycheck and because they have pride and want to win, but players should also play to win for their fans since ultimately they are the ones that generate the money for the NFL and they are the ones that show up with 70,000+ people to cheer them on every week, but I wouldn't give a rip about playing for fans that want you to go ahead and lose if you're having an off year. Oh yeah, it's great to know you'll be there when they are winning. Surprised some of you people haven't jumped on the Colts bandwagon for the year.

Hey uhhhhh, did I not say that I flew down to texas to see them play the Colts in my first post? Well I said it and correct me if I am wrong... they were 0-5 at that point. Also I went to the Texans vs. Jets game in 03 and 04 and each year they had a losing record prior to the game... K thx

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 11:06 PM
Oh yeah and if I lived in Texas, I'd be at every game. Its tough to "be there" when you are this far away. And to both jets games i wore all my gear. And also, 70,000 fans... i do not believe 70,000 fans go to the games anymore. Week 7 when i was there i recall that there were a lot of empty seats plus people with bags on their heads. yeah play for them. And to answer your question, i watch the games to see how the texans play and see potential for the future.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 11:10 PM
I never said you had to go to every game to be a fan did I? I didn't think so, but hoping your team will lose in my mind disqualifies anyone as being a fan.

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 11:13 PM
so ur saying wanting to win meaningless end of season games which will in the end HURT the team is being a better fan?

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 11:19 PM
Yes, winning a few games at the end of the year does not hurt the team. Sure it would be nice to have all the options of having the #1 pick in the draft, but we don't need the #1 pick and it is not hurting our team to have the 2nd or 3rd pick and rooting for our team to lose games is wrong.

belars44
12-04-2005, 11:25 PM
I live in Austin.......I have driven in and gone to every home game since day of inception.......I sit on the front row of the Texans sideline on the 35 right behind the defensive bench........these are my PSL's which I paid for by myself........I'm a fan......and this team just blows period............win or lose does not matter now......we had better plan for the future or this franchise is doomed.

HoustonTexans
12-04-2005, 11:27 PM
Well this has been a good argument and it will never be solved no matter what so I'm just gonna say that when push comes to shove, we are both fans in different ways and the one thing that brings us togethr is that we both love the Texans, why else would we both post on this board and visit the site every day. I dont have a lot of posts cause usually i like to read other opinions and not get involved. Aight yo, it's time for bed here in CT, night.

HoustonFan
12-04-2005, 11:34 PM
The team w/ the worst record gets the 1st pick, huh? Well in order for us to win some more games, the other 3 times that are only a game ahead of us need to win some games. Those 3 broads all lost today. The punks.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Well this has been a good argument and it will never be solved no matter what so I'm just gonna say that when push comes to shove, we are both fans in different ways and the one thing that brings us togethr is that we both love the Texans, why else would we both post on this board and visit the site every day. I dont have a lot of posts cause usually i like to read other opinions and not get involved. Aight yo, it's time for bed here in CT, night.

Well you have your opinions and I have mine and that is the way things are and there's not much sense to arguing it any more, so let us all hope that things improve both the rest of this year and next year. It is also bed time here in H-Town, so peace to everyone here.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 11:44 PM
I live in Austin.......I have driven in and gone to every home game since day of inception.......I sit on the front row of the Texans sideline on the 35 right behind the defensive bench........these are my PSL's which I paid for by myself........I'm a fan......and this team just blows period............win or lose does not matter now......we had better plan for the future or this franchise is doomed.

I appreciate your support for the team and I'm sure the players and administration do too and I hope the team does have a winning plan for the future and I'm sure Bob is working on something. Either way I wouldn't say that this franchise is doomed, but ok.

belars44
12-04-2005, 11:49 PM
I appreciate your support for the team and I'm sure the players and administration do too and I hope the team does have a winning plan for the future and I'm sure Bob is working on something. Either way I wouldn't say that this franchise is doomed, but ok.

What I said was..

we had better plan for the future or this franchise is doomed

and as far as I'm concerned, that remains true.