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View Full Version : By all means get rid of Carr


daddypapa
12-04-2005, 01:38 PM
I have been reading posts here for quite awhile and finally decided to register and post my own. I can't believe how ignorant some of you are when it comes to David Carr. Did Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and, oh yeah, Tom Brady win all their Super Bowls on their own? NO! They each had really solid defenses, quality receivers, a good running game and oh yeah, an OFFENSIVE LINE!

If you think just because he was your number one draft choice he should have an "S" on his chest and wear a cape you don't deserve to have a quarterback like David Carr.

You sound just like the Tampa Bay Bucs fans in the mid 80s with a quarterback by the name of Steve Young. Everyone blamed him and look what happened...the team let him get away and he ended up having a Hall of Fame career.

Will the same happen to David Carr? I doubt it. But, he sure as heck doesn't need all this grief from a bunch of armchair knowitalls with 20/20 hindsight.

All the same, go ahead, get rid of David Carr. Bring in Matt Leinart and watch the same thing happen while Carr flourishes with another team.

Or, do the smart thing...draft Reggie Bush and build an offensive line that can stop a rush by any team stronger than Sisters of the Poor.

Daddypapa the Wise

:cool:

Proteus
12-04-2005, 01:49 PM
We, the people who understand whats really going on, see the fatal flaws in Carr. Listen, comparing Carr to the likes of Montana, Young, Bradshaw, etc. is crazy. Carr is not, and will never be like, and could never attain the greatness of those mentioned. He is a medicore QB. When the line holds up, when he takes a 5-step drop, when he scans the field for open receivers... he 75% of the time, chokes. Yes, he has made some great plays and thrown some spectacular balls, but not enough to call him great. The record books will not be flooded with his records (except most sacks), and the hall of fame will never call him up. Thats just the facts. Get over it.
~Proteus

False Start
12-04-2005, 01:49 PM
Wow I must say I agree 100% with you . :jam:

Proteus
12-04-2005, 01:53 PM
Wow I must say I agree 100% with you . :jam:

I too mourn the loss of Dimebag.... R.I.P, I just had to add that.
~Proteus

Marcus
12-04-2005, 01:57 PM
We, the people who understand whats really going on, see the fatal flaws in Carr. Listen, comparing Carr to the likes of Montana, Young, Bradshaw, etc. is crazy. Carr is not, and will never be like, and could never attain the greatness of those mentioned. He is a medicore QB. When the line holds up, when he takes a 5-step drop, when he scans the field for open receivers... he 75% of the time, chokes. Yes, he has made some great plays and thrown some spectacular balls, but not enough to call him great. The record books will not be flooded with his records (except most sacks), and the hall of fame will never call him up. Thats just the facts. Get over it.
~Proteus

When the line holds up on a 5-step drop? :um:

When, praytell, have you ever seen that?

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 02:01 PM
:texflag: Has anyone mentioned any USC quarterbacks lately ? I think the talk has been a Virginia LT and a USC tailback.

Proteus
12-04-2005, 02:06 PM
When the line holds up on a 5-step drop? :um:

When, praytell, have you ever seen that?


Maybe I should educate you on some english skills... Did I say "when the line holds up on a 5-step drop? No. I said "when the line holds up, when Carr takes a 5-step drop, etc." That sentence discribes a series of events that are not related. Let me break it down to you this way... "When I see that the line holds off defenders for Carr.... When I also see times where Carr takes a 5-step drop (which is not very often).... " is that easier to understand?
~Proteus, praytell

Marcus
12-04-2005, 02:15 PM
Maybe I should educate you on some english skills... Did I say "when the line holds up on a 5-step drop? No. I said "when the line holds up, when Carr takes a 5-step drop, etc." That sentence discribes a series of events that are not related. Let me break it down to you this way... "When I see that the line holds off defenders for Carr.... When I also see times where Carr takes a 5-step drop (which is not very often).... " is that easier to understand?
~Proteus, praytell

Screw your English lessons. Let me put it to you this way. If, and until, you see Carr have the adequate time to throw consistantly from a 5 step drop, you are in no position to judge.

Proteus
12-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Screw your English lessons. Let me put it to you this way. If, and until, you see Carr have the adequate time to throw consistantly from a 5 step drop, you are in no position to judge.

Thats the beauty of living in a free country. I can pass judgement on Carr's performance every Sunday. We all understand the game of football, if it was not so, we wouldn't be here on the message boards debating everything from Carr's performance to who the Texans will draft for next season. Bottom line, Carr is a lame duck... no matter how much time he has to throw.
~Proteus

Goldeagle
12-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Screw your English lessons. Let me put it to you this way. If, and until, you see Carr have the adequate time to throw consistantly from a 5 step drop, you are in no position to judge.


Yup, according to many league coaches and former players. I do recall Tony Dungy saying not even Peyton Manning would do any better than Carr with what he has in front of him.

Theismann and Dungy echoed a point about no one knows if Carr is good or not? They think he is good but you wont know until he gets an AVERAGE offensive line.

You might need to rid yourself of Carr because he is damaged goods. Then again like ANY Houston team, as soon as he goes somewhere else we will see him in the Super Bowl

Proteus
12-04-2005, 02:28 PM
Yup, according to many league coaches and former players. I do recall Tony Dungy saying not even Peyton Manning would do any better than Carr with what he has in front of him.

Theismann and Dungy echoed a point about no one knows if Carr is good or not? They think he is good but you wont know until he gets an AVERAGE offensive line.

You might need to rid yourself of Carr because he is damaged goods. Then again like ANY Houston team, as soon as he goes somewhere else we will see him in the Super Bowl

Point well taken. I feel that he is damaged goods and probably suffers from shell-shock. <=That is my honest opinion. To think he can play well for ANY team after his beating through 4 years in Houston is crazy talk.
~Proteus

NFLforher
12-04-2005, 03:44 PM
I have been reading posts here for quite awhile and finally decided to register and post my own. I can't believe how ignorant some of you are when it comes to David Carr. Did Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and, oh yeah, Tom Brady win all their Super Bowls on their own? NO! They each had really solid defenses, quality receivers, a good running game and oh yeah, an OFFENSIVE LINE!

If you think just because he was your number one draft choice he should have an "S" on his chest and wear a cape you don't deserve to have a quarterback like David Carr.

You sound just like the Tampa Bay Bucs fans in the mid 80s with a quarterback by the name of Steve Young. Everyone blamed him and look what happened...the team let him get away and he ended up having a Hall of Fame career.

Will the same happen to David Carr? I doubt it. But, he sure as heck doesn't need all this grief from a bunch of armchair knowitalls with 20/20 hindsight.

All the same, go ahead, get rid of David Carr. Bring in Matt Leinart and watch the same thing happen while Carr flourishes with another team.

Or, do the smart thing...draft Reggie Bush and build an offensive line that can stop a rush by any team stronger than Sisters of the Poor.

Daddypapa the Wise

:cool:


Rodger?


:texflag:

Scott D
12-04-2005, 03:59 PM
I was wondering about all you people who want to get rid of Carr.

Since you fellas know so much about football, I have one question for you. How many years were you all in the NFL and what position did you play in? How about the coaches position.

You know, I tend to agree more with this statement from the people who ARE in the league rather than you wannabe's out there who have never set foot on the field and either played or coached professional football. I agree with these coaches (like Tony Dungy) rather than you people. If you guys have all the answers then quit your jobs and go and do what you feel is necessary to fix the Texans problems since you feel they don't know how.

Geez there are too many armchair QB's out there.

As I always say, if you think it need to be better, then go out and prove it to everybody.

Besides, what if the Texans were, say 9-3. I'll bet you just might have a different viewpoint if the record was reversed. I know for a fact that the coaches and the players know exactly what the problem is better than you or I do.

daddypapa
12-04-2005, 04:06 PM
Maybe the Texans should have drafted Harrington...that would have been the answer! He will be available this off-season, maybe the Texans can get him cheap. Then Carr can go anywhere...even the Saints and do better than the Texans.

Before the Texans ownership gives up on Carr they need to give up on the head coach, the offensive coordinator, the offensive line and the running game.

Too bad the 49ers drafted Alex Smith because I would love to see them go after Carr. Or maybe, since Carr grew up a Dallas Cowboys fan he could do there as the replacement to Drew Bledsoe.

Daddypapa the Wise

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 04:09 PM
I was wondering about all you people who want to get rid of Carr.

Since you fellas know so much about football, I have one question for you. How many years were you all in the NFL and what position did you play in? How about the coaches position.

You know, I tend to agree more with this statement from the people who ARE in the league rather than you wannabe's out there who have never set foot on the field and either played or coached professional football. I agree with these coaches (like Tony Dungy) rather than you people. If you guys have all the answers then quit your jobs and go and do what you feel is necessary to fix the Texans problems since you feel they don't know how.

Geez there are too many armchair QB's out there.

As I always say, if you think it need to be better, then go out and prove it to everybody.

Besides, what if the Texans were, say 9-3. I'll bet you just might have a different viewpoint if the record was reversed. I know for a fact that the coaches and the players know exactly what the problem is better than you or I do.

We are armchair QB's who pay money to make the Texan machine run, consequently we have a de facto voice. Of course no coach is going to come out and speak poorly about anohter team. If you tend to read most of the posts with a Carr focus you will see that the rants do have some logic behind them, namely contract implications.

Appreciate the post as you are correct in that winning does cure all, but digest all of the takes.

Scott D
12-04-2005, 04:20 PM
My complaint is that you are quick to judge and slow to think.

Alright. Let's put Peyton Manning in the Texans offense and David Carr in the Colts offense.

You know what I think will happen? Carr is going to look pretty good out there and Manning is going to S-U-C-K!

Now let's continue on a little bit further. Now we need to fix this problem. We need to get rid of this no-good-for-nothing QB and replace him with somebody else. Manning goes back to the Colts and has many playoff appearances and Superbowl wins while the Texans keep screwing up their chances by getting rid of quality players.

That is what I primarily hear from these posts.

Again, if you feel you are better qualified for the position, then go and do it. If what you are saying is what the problem is, then put it into action.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 04:25 PM
My complaint is that you are quick to judge and slow to think.

Alright. Let's put Peyton Manning in the Texans offense and David Carr in the Colts offense.

You know what I think will happen? Carr is going to look pretty good out there and Manning is going to S-U-C-K!

Now let's continue on a little bit further. Now we need to fix this problem. We need to get rid of this no-good-for-nothing QB and replace him with somebody else. Manning goes back to the Colts and has many playoff appearances and Superbowl wins while the Texans keep screwing up their chances by getting rid of quality players.

That is what I primarily hear from these posts.

Again, if you feel you are better qualified for the position, then go and do it. If what you are saying is what the problem is, then put it into action.

I have zero idea what point you are trying to make.

Scott D
12-04-2005, 04:49 PM
If the QB throws the ball and the receiver misses the ball that was thrown right at him, it's the QB's fault.

If the QB gets sacked because the front line can't protect him, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texan defense can't keep the opposing offense off the field, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texans can't win the ballgame when the Texans go down the field and get the go ahead FG and the Texans defense can't hold them, well, you guessed it. It's the QB's fault.

Pertaining to this sorry assed QB that most everybody in here is talking about probably isn't the problem. He could be part of the problem directly or indirectly. As it goes for any organization, teamwork is a must. In my field, if we don't work as a unit, we screw up. Things go wrong and deadlines are not met.

The real problem here is that the Texans are not operating as a TEAM. Now, I feel that the players we have will work very well IF, and I do mean IF, the coaching staff can get them to operate as a unit. A team. Teamwork.

Look at Green Bay, Dallas, Tennessee, San Francisco just to name a few. Granted, some of those teams you have some dead beats but for the most part they are the same group of people made up of champoins. Green bay is the one in that group that comes to mind.

Now, the heartbreaker. Anyone out there felt that the Patriots would be this bad? What are we going to do? Fire Tom Brady who won three Superbowls for the franchise? Every team has its dog days. Some lasts longer than they should. Most cases, it's not the players fault, it's the management staff's fault.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 04:55 PM
If the QB throws the ball and the receiver misses the ball that was thrown right at him, it's the QB's fault.

If the QB gets sacked because the front line can't protect him, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texan defense can't keep the opposing offense off the field, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texans can't win the ballgame when the Texans go down the field and get the go ahead FG and the Texans defense can't hold them, well, you guessed it. It's the QB's fault.

Pertaining to this sorry assed QB that most everybody in here is talking about probably isn't the problem. He could be part of the problem directly or indirectly. As it goes for any organization, teamwork is a must. In my field, if we don't work as a unit, we screw up. Things go wrong and deadlines are not met.

The real problem here is that the Texans are not operating as a TEAM. Now, I feel that the players we have will work very well IF, and I do mean IF, the coaching staff can get them to operate as a unit. A team. Teamwork.

Look at Green Bay, Dallas, Tennessee, San Francisco just to name a few. Granted, some of those teams you have some dead beats but for the most part they are the same group of people made up of champoins. Green bay is the one in that group that comes to mind.

Now, the heartbreaker. Anyone out there felt that the Patriots would be this bad? What are we going to do? Fire Tom Brady who won three Superbowls for the franchise? Every team has its dog days. Some lasts longer than they should. Most cases, it's not the players fault, it's the management staff's fault.

You sound pretty intuitive so let me throw a scenario at you that happens quite often in professional sports. What happens when the top paid player on your team does not live up to expectations and cannot lead? It is called mutiny. Rightly or wrongly player's noses follow the money and it leads to #8.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 05:02 PM
:tomato: Scott and Daddy please put the bourbon away ... it's for the egg nog.

eriadoc
12-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Thats the beauty of living in a free country. I can pass judgement on Carr's performance every Sunday. We all understand the game of football, if it was not so, we wouldn't be here on the message boards debating everything from Carr's performance to who the Texans will draft for next season. Bottom line, Carr is a lame duck... no matter how much time he has to throw.
~Proteus

Yeeeaaahhh .... I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you here.

MorKnolle
12-04-2005, 07:06 PM
me too

HJam72
12-04-2005, 07:10 PM
Thats the beauty of living in a free country. I can pass judgement on Carr's performance every Sunday. We all understand the game of football, if it was not so, we wouldn't be here on the message boards debating everything from Carr's performance to who the Texans will draft for next season. Bottom line, Carr is a lame duck... no matter how much time he has to throw.
~Proteus

Oh, crap! I thought this was the Rockets forum. :wacko:

Hervoyel
12-04-2005, 07:10 PM
More like "We all enjoy the game of football"

No wait, I'm not even so sure about that one.

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 07:12 PM
:tomato: Did he say " Carr's a lame duck " or did he say " Hey Carr you better Duck ".

Scott747
12-04-2005, 07:22 PM
Why not just for one time, pull Dave and let him see the game from the sideline? No need to call it a benching or such...

It might just help his development process..

Honoring Earl 34
12-04-2005, 07:24 PM
:texflag: Because we might lose . Actually CC said that young QBs don't do well when they get benched .

NFLforher
12-04-2005, 07:24 PM
Maybe the Texans should have drafted Harrington...that would have been the answer! He will be available this off-season, maybe the Texans can get him cheap. Then Carr can go anywhere...even the Saints and do better than the Texans.

Before the Texans ownership gives up on Carr they need to give up on the head coach, the offensive coordinator, the offensive line and the running game.

Too bad the 49ers drafted Alex Smith because I would love to see them go after Carr. Or maybe, since Carr grew up a Dallas Cowboys fan he could do there as the replacement to Drew Bledsoe.

Daddypapa the Wise



I agree. I think David could do so much better somewhere else. I watched him play at Fresno. I've got to hand it to him, keeping quiet as he's pounded into the ground year after year after year. The guy has class, that's for sure.

Scott747
12-04-2005, 07:25 PM
Carr's not young....

4yrs as a starter.....;)

run-david-run
12-04-2005, 08:30 PM
I have been reading posts here for quite awhile and finally decided to register and post my own. I can't believe how ignorant some of you are when it comes to David Carr. Did Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and, oh yeah, Tom Brady win all their Super Bowls on their own? NO! They each had really solid defenses, quality receivers, a good running game and oh yeah, an OFFENSIVE LINE!

If you think just because he was your number one draft choice he should have an "S" on his chest and wear a cape you don't deserve to have a quarterback like David Carr.

You sound just like the Tampa Bay Bucs fans in the mid 80s with a quarterback by the name of Steve Young. Everyone blamed him and look what happened...the team let him get away and he ended up having a Hall of Fame career.

Will the same happen to David Carr? I doubt it. But, he sure as heck doesn't need all this grief from a bunch of armchair knowitalls with 20/20 hindsight.

All the same, go ahead, get rid of David Carr. Bring in Matt Leinart and watch the same thing happen while Carr flourishes with another team.

Or, do the smart thing...draft Reggie Bush and build an offensive line that can stop a rush by any team stronger than Sisters of the Poor.

Daddypapa the Wise

:cool:
OH MY GOD!!!!!! You say "build an offensive line", yet you want to draft Bush!!! Come on! How do you not see the paradox there, you cant just say, build an o-line while not dedicating the draft to it! Over half of the starting LT's in this league are taken in the 1st round, most of them in the top half of the first round. Get a clue!

run-david-run
12-04-2005, 08:33 PM
Point well taken. I feel that he is damaged goods and probably suffers from shell-shock. <=That is my honest opinion. To think he can play well for ANY team after his beating through 4 years in Houston is crazy talk.
~Proteus
I think its more of a confidnece thing. The team has done NOTHING to try and stop the sacks in terms of personell. I think if we get D'Brick or Winston, we will see a differance in the way Carr trusts his protection and his game will pick up a level...

run-david-run
12-04-2005, 08:37 PM
More like "We all enjoy the game of football"

No wait, I'm not even so sure about that one.
There were way to many peopel happy when we lost today, its starting to scare me a little.
The worst part of it is that I am going to college next year in Austin, so this is the lst year I have of watching the Texans every Sunday, and they are on pace for the # 1 pick...

Scott D
12-04-2005, 10:24 PM
All the same, go ahead, get rid of David Carr. Bring in Matt Leinart and watch the same thing happen while Carr flourishes with another team.

Or, do the smart thing...draft Reggie Bush and build an offensive line that can stop a rush by any team stronger than Sisters of the Poor.


This is exactly what I am talking about. You said it yourself. Get rid of Carr and watch big things happen with him. While all the other teams are getting better, the Texans will be still trying to get out of the starting gate and get nowhere. I strongly feel that the problem we're having is a managment problem. I also agree there are a very few players that need to go but one of them isn't David Carr. Not just yet. He's not a bad QB. I think he is an accurate QB when given the time to throw the ball.

That is not the fix to get rid of Carr. The problem will still exist and nothing will ever change.

daddypapa
12-05-2005, 12:01 AM
OH MY GOD!!!!!! You say "build an offensive line", yet you want to draft Bush!!! Come on! How do you not see the paradox there, you cant just say, build an o-line while not dedicating the draft to it! Over half of the starting LT's in this league are taken in the 1st round, most of them in the top half of the first round. Get a clue!


Conventional wisdom is that you draft the best available player in the draft. Do you see a left tackle in the draft as good as Orlando Pace? Neither do I. So, how in the world can you NOT draft Reggie Bush?? How stupid would that be? Now, if you are able to find a team as stupid as the Saints under Mike Ditka who would trade you their entire draft for the rights to Reggie Bush (a la Ricky Williams) then you could use your first pick on a tackle. Otherwise, shut your pie hole unless you can name an LT who deserves to be picked ahead of Reggie Bush.

Frankly, I don't care who they draft. I am a 49ers fan and I am stuck as a fan of another team that sucks right now. I just think David Carr has great abilities and heart but he is stuck on the worst run and least talented team in the league...ok maybe second worst behind the 49ers.

Daddypapa the Wise

And no, I am not Rodger

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 07:52 AM
Conventional wisdom is that you draft the best available player in the draft. Do you see a left tackle in the draft as good as Orlando Pace? Neither do I. So, how in the world can you NOT draft Reggie Bush?? How stupid would that be? Now, if you are able to find a team as stupid as the Saints under Mike Ditka who would trade you their entire draft for the rights to Reggie Bush (a la Ricky Williams) then you could use your first pick on a tackle. Otherwise, shut your pie hole unless you can name an LT who deserves to be picked ahead of Reggie Bush.

Frankly, I don't care who they draft. I am a 49ers fan and I am stuck as a fan of another team that sucks right now. I just think David Carr has great abilities and heart but he is stuck on the worst run and least talented team in the league...ok maybe second worst behind the 49ers.

Daddypapa the Wise

And no, I am not Rodger

I have never seen such a great player, play so bad. It is amazing how someone becomes great by having one good season and one great season at the U, err Fresno State U.

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 10:02 AM
I have been reading posts here for quite awhile and finally decided to register and post my own. I can't believe how ignorant some of you are when it comes to David Carr. Did Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and, oh yeah, Tom Brady win all their Super Bowls on their own? NO! They each had really solid defenses, quality receivers, a good running game and oh yeah, an OFFENSIVE LINE!


Daddypapa the Wise

:cool:

Welcome brother Daddypapa to the I love/I hate David Carr front line. This is an on going fight that neither side will ever agree on nor come to mutual terms in which both side can agree. You are in this for the long haul. Welcome.

However it is almost pointless to argue with the Carr haters. Their pure blind hatred for the man prevents them from ever seeing anything positive. This is the group that blames Carr for 9/11.

Calling them armchair QB's or ignorent will always shoot back with the answer, "this is a message board I can say what I want", "It's a free country", or my personal favorite "Your a do-do head."

If you throw stats at them, proving that up until this year he was putting up the same numbers as your Elway's, Farve"s, and Marino's, they will tell stats arent everything. They say that b/c they know this does prove he is pretty darn good and they are too deep in there own hatred to admit they are wrong.

It is too the point when receivers drop the ball it is still Carr's fault. Like when Bradford has a step on two defenders and Carr laid it right into his hands and Bradford dropped it. That was Carr's fault. Of course what the Carr haters say is he should have thrown to Dre so, yes he could get the 1st,but let the time run out on the clock.

Someday Carr will be on another team lighting up the score board and leading his team to divisional tittles and championships. The when the Carr lovers post things like "We told you so" those posts will be conviently moved to forums where they will never be read of seen.

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 10:13 AM
Welcome brother Daddypapa to the I love/I hate David Carr front line. This is an on going fight that neither side will ever agree on nor come to mutual terms in which both side can agree. You are in this for the long haul. Welcome.

However it is almost pointless to argue with the Carr haters. Their pure blind hatred for the man prevents them from ever seeing anything positive. This is the group that blames Carr for 9/11.

Calling them armchair QB's or ignorent will always shoot back with the answer, "this is a message board I can say what I want", "It's a free country", or my personal favorite "Your a do-do head."

If you throw stats at them, proving that up until this year he was putting up the same numbers as your Elway's, Farve"s, and Marino's, they will tell stats arent everything. They say that b/c they know this does prove he is pretty darn good and they are too deep in there own hatred to admit they are wrong.

It is too the point when receivers drop the ball it is still Carr's fault. Like when Bradford has a step on two defenders and Carr laid it right into his hands and Bradford dropped it. That was Carr's fault. Of course what the Carr haters say is he should have thrown to Dre so, yes he could get the 1st,but let the time run out on the clock.

Someday Carr will be on another team lighting up the score board and leading his team to divisional tittles and championships. The when the Carr lovers post things like "We told you so" those posts will be conviently moved to forums where they will never be read of seen.

And you have seen Carr light it up on a regular basis? Has he lived up to his contract? Has he tweaked his game to compensate for his deficiencies? Do you think he is a leader on this team? We pay this guy a lot of money to perform to a certain standard in the NFL. If that standard is not met, finger pointing will occur in the locker room.

Carr haters want to help our sickly QB make it by renegotiating his contract and give him the help he desperatley needs. Carr lovers want to resign him over his market value and then expect to sign the type of players that will help him. It is the Carr lovers who need to tone the volume down.

cuppacoffee
12-05-2005, 10:43 AM
I was wondering about all you people who want to get rid of Carr.

Since you fellas know so much about football, I have one question for you. How many years were you all in the NFL and what position did you play in? How about the coaches position.

You know, I tend to agree more with this statement from the people who ARE in the league rather than you wannabe's out there who have never set foot on the field and either played or coached professional football. I agree with these coaches (like Tony Dungy) rather than you people. If you guys have all the answers then quit your jobs and go and do what you feel is necessary to fix the Texans problems since you feel they don't know how.

Geez there are too many armchair QB's out there.

As I always say, if you think it need to be better, then go out and prove it to everybody.

Besides, what if the Texans were, say 9-3. I'll bet you just might have a different viewpoint if the record was reversed. I know for a fact that the coaches and the players know exactly what the problem is better than you or I do.

I guess if Leinart or some other QB hits Johnson in the chest with the ball he will hold onto it. Johnson holds onto that TD pass we win the game. Yeah, its all Carrs fault.
Where's the anti Johnson thread this morning. :pigfly:
Amazing......:brickwall

Vinny
12-05-2005, 10:53 AM
I was wondering about all you people who want to get rid of Carr.

Since you fellas know so much about football, I have one question for you. How many years were you all in the NFL and what position did you play in? How about the coaches position.

I find this as ridiculous a position to debate as any I can find on a message board. I enjoy a good pastry but I can't bake worth a darn. I also have the ability to know a good pastry from a bad pastry even though I would screw one up if I made it myself. I really enjoy a good novel but I can't write worth a flip either....but I can certainly tell when I am reading a worthless, poorly written novel. To tell the forum that they have no reasonable opinion on a football team or player because we can't run a 4.4 forty or do not have a great right arm, or never coached in the NFL is ridiculous.

Coach C.
12-05-2005, 10:56 AM
Vinny coming out of HS and on my way to TAMU I ran a much 4.3 fourty time. But that does not matter, I agree with you on this one.

Vinny
12-05-2005, 10:57 AM
Vinny coming out of HS and on my way to TAMU I ran a much 4.3 fourty time. But that does not matter, I agree with you on this one.I probably benched more than our strength coach has ever benched but that doesn't make me better suited for the position. Different people have different opinions....it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do. If you have a good eye, know what you are talking about and are consistant you have a credible opinion. The other stuff is meaningless to some extent.

Vinny
12-05-2005, 11:07 AM
A message board is a mosaic of thought...and some folks will bring more credible positions than others (one just needs to be patient and get a feel for the individuals over time - kinda figure out who to pay less attention to as you settle in), but we all learn a little something from someone else's point of view. I know that some of the folks here that I have fully disagreed with have turned me around a time or two myself.

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 11:07 AM
And you have seen Carr light it up on a regular basis? Has he lived up to his contract? Has he tweaked his game to compensate for his deficiencies? Do you think he is a leader on this team? We pay this guy a lot of money to perform to a certain standard in the NFL. If that standard is not met, finger pointing will occur in the locker room.

Carr haters want to help our sickly QB make it by renegotiating his contract and give him the help he desperatley needs. Carr lovers want to resign him over his market value and then expect to sign the type of players that will help him. It is the Carr lovers who need to tone the volume down.

Carr living up to his contract is a two way street. Has Cass and company put the best most competitive team on the field? No.

What deficiencies? When he's rushed he runs, when no one is open (and that is often) he throws to Davis, when the guy is open he throws them the ball for the WR to dropp it. I dont want to hear how he can't read the D. He reads it just fine, he is going to get sacked, he knows it and he is dealing with it.

I dont know any Carr lover that thinks he shouldnt renegotiate his contract. Absolutly he should. That money could go a long way to signing sub par below average talent. I am sure there are other Greenwoods out there that we could over pay and then hype. Maybe this year we will give away our whole draft to the Titans for Pacman Jones.

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Carr living up to his contract is a two way street. Has Cass and company put the best most competitive team on the field? No.

What deficiencies? When he's rushed he runs, when no one is open (and that is often) he throws to Davis, when the guy is open he throws them the ball for the WR to dropp it. I dont want to hear how he can't read the D. He reads it just fine, he is going to get sacked, he knows it and he is dealing with it.

I dont know any Carr lover that thinks he shouldnt renegotiate his contract. Absolutly he should. That money could go a long way to signing sub par below average talent. I am sure there are other Greenwoods out there that we could over pay and then hype. Maybe this year we will give away our whole draft to the Titans for Pacman Jones.

One deficiency that I see is his exciting duck and cover move. I would like to see how he is developing his footwork in the pocket, maybe working with the DB's would help or watching endless film on Brady. He has side stepped some would be tacklers in the last couple of games (AJ's blown ctach was one of them), but this is where I feel he could use some serious improvement.

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 11:19 AM
As someone who has actually been with the players and around the players in their environment, I am somewhat surprised to read often of this hypothetical emnity that exists between Carr and the rest of the team. He is highly paid, so what? So is half the locker room.

Most of the players have a lot of respect for him, and I only say most because I haven't polled them individually and wouldn't want to use the all-inclusive. Read this morning's Chronicle if you want a glimpse regarding the increasingly prevalent thinking in the locker room.

You rightly comment that it is a hypotheitcal, but one that does play out and is the rule rather than the exception.

If you have relationships in the locker room and they say that it is not playing out that way then I it would be the exception and I am ok with that.

Vinny
12-05-2005, 11:24 AM
So why has Brady looked a little more ... well, mortal this year? .I hate to rain little story/analogy this but Brady is on pace to have one of his better statistical years and is on pace to top most of his best passing numbers.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741

Kaiser Toro
12-05-2005, 11:25 AM
Brady is the perfect example of a good QB who had the privilege to play with and for one of the best, most well-rounded, intelligently-coached teams in the league. Love or hate the Patriots, you cannot deny the skill their coaching staff demonstrated.

So why has Brady looked a little more ... well, mortal this year? ... Two of his three coaches leave, they lose a player or two to free agency and about seven more key vets to injury. But damn that, Brady is to blame. Trade him, immediately: the Patriots need to be back in the Super Bowl.

And through all of that adversity, they sit atop of their division. Maybe we need a coach for tackling adversity?

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 11:27 AM
A message board is a mosaic of thought...and some folks will bring more credible positions than others (one just needs to be patient and get a feel for the individuals over time - kinda figure out who to pay less attention to as you settle in), but we all learn a little something from someone else's point of view. I know that some of the folks here that I have fully disagreed with have turned me around a time or two myself.
Yea, you have called me stupid a time or two. Not the acctual word stupid but have insinuated.

Vinny
12-05-2005, 11:30 AM
stupid is as stupid does I guess.

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 11:31 AM
stupid is as stupid does I guess.
Ha Ha

TexanAlmighty
12-05-2005, 11:32 AM
This is hilarious.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 11:37 AM
As someone who has actually been with the players and around the players in their environment, I am somewhat surprised to read often of this hypothetical emnity that exists between Carr and the rest of the team. He is highly paid, so what? So is half the locker room. I hope that his contract is negotiated in a way so as to benefit the team, but it's the NFL, QBs will always be paid the most. Everyone knows and accepts this.

Most of the players have a lot of respect for him, and I only say most because I haven't polled them individually and wouldn't want to use the all-inclusive. Read this morning's Chronicle if you want a glimpse regarding the increasingly prevalent thinking in the locker room.

Perhaps you could introduce me to some of them sometime.

TexansStill
12-05-2005, 11:52 AM
I hope that some of you are reading the endless amount of crap that you are typeing. It seems that one of your major points is that Super Dave, as you call him, makes too much money. Well even though he does earn his money (he get's hit repeatedly), who out there is going to do better in this system? Anybody that comes in here as an NFL QB is going to demand big money i don't care how good you think they are. That's just the way it is. Any QB that has a really good OL, running game, and and great defense is going to win. Come on guys let's be real here, Peyton would be possibly a little better in this system FOR A WHILE, but after taking a big time a$! whoppens out there every week he would fold up too. With that said, Tell me WHO YOU GONNA GET? AND HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD COST?:challenge

TEXANRED
12-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Lets put this season and pretty much the teams whole existance into perspective. How many games has the D blown over the last four years? Countless. How many leads have been built only to lose in the second half? How many times has the D given up three touchdowns in the first quarter? Yes they had there moments, like in pittsburg when glenne single handedly won that game. Those moments though are few and far between.

We want to win games we need a killer D. The Steelers have been good for decades cause of a D that would rip your head off. Big Ben would be nothing without a great D to support him. I know great D doesnt just grow on trees but the Texan organization has shown 0 common since on how to put a competitive team out on the field. Fangio is a crappy coach. Always has been always will be. He has never been sucessfull in any place he has ever been.

It has taken the Colts five years to undo what Fangio did there. So how long will it take the Texans?

edo783
12-05-2005, 03:39 PM
All you have to do is look at the Bears to see what a good defense will do for a team. O-line isn't all of our woes by any streatch of the imagination.

abbest
12-05-2005, 06:39 PM
I have been reading posts here for quite awhile and finally decided to register and post my own. I can't believe how ignorant some of you are when it comes to David Carr. Did Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and, oh yeah, Tom Brady win all their Super Bowls on their own? NO! They each had really solid defenses, quality receivers, a good running game and oh yeah, an OFFENSIVE LINE!

If you think just because he was your number one draft choice he should have an "S" on his chest and wear a cape you don't deserve to have a quarterback like David Carr.

You sound just like the Tampa Bay Bucs fans in the mid 80s with a quarterback by the name of Steve Young. Everyone blamed him and look what happened...the team let him get away and he ended up having a Hall of Fame career.

Will the same happen to David Carr? I doubt it. But, he sure as heck doesn't need all this grief from a bunch of armchair knowitalls with 20/20 hindsight.

All the same, go ahead, get rid of David Carr. Bring in Matt Leinart and watch the same thing happen while Carr flourishes with another team.

Or, do the smart thing...draft Reggie Bush and build an offensive line that can stop a rush by any team stronger than Sisters of the Poor.

Daddypapa the Wise

:cool:and a stingier defense wouldn`t hurt either

abbest
12-05-2005, 06:45 PM
If the QB throws the ball and the receiver misses the ball that was thrown right at him, it's the QB's fault.

If the QB gets sacked because the front line can't protect him, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texan defense can't keep the opposing offense off the field, it's the QB's fault.

If the Texans can't win the ballgame when the Texans go down the field and get the go ahead FG and the Texans defense can't hold them, well, you guessed it. It's the QB's fault.

Pertaining to this sorry assed QB that most everybody in here is talking about probably isn't the problem. He could be part of the problem directly or indirectly. As it goes for any organization, teamwork is a must. In my field, if we don't work as a unit, we screw up. Things go wrong and deadlines are not met.

The real problem here is that the Texans are not operating as a TEAM. Now, I feel that the players we have will work very well IF, and I do mean IF, the coaching staff can get them to operate as a unit. A team. Teamwork.

Look at Green Bay, Dallas, Tennessee, San Francisco just to name a few. Granted, some of those teams you have some dead beats but for the most part they are the same group of people made up of champoins. Green bay is the one in that group that comes to mind.

Now, the heartbreaker. Anyone out there felt that the Patriots would be this bad? What are we going to do? Fire Tom Brady who won three Superbowls for the franchise? Every team has its dog days. Some lasts longer than they should. Most cases, it's not the players fault, it's the management staff's fault.Tom Brady has never looked like David Carr wrong comparision

thegr8fan
12-05-2005, 06:55 PM
yeah, the O-line NEVER holds up any of the rushers. Poor David Carr, poor, poor man. Imagine what would happen if the O-line only held up once all game. What are the odds that when they do David Carr does one of his infamous side arm sling throws straight into the upraised hands of a defending lineman, it dings off his hands straight up in the air, is caught by another defender, who runs it back 15 yards for a TD. I mean what are the odds of THAAAAT happening? :rolleyes:

Carr isn't the entire problem with the team. But he is ONE of the problems. The sooner some of you golden boy loving Carr fans admit that there is a problem there, the sooner we can stop reading posts about how great he is, and how it is all someone else's fault, and if he only had this, that, or the other, help he would win the Superbowl without even breaking a sweat. Probably even pulling a Manning and go 16-0 or something.

Give me a break.

Carr has some serious development problems. It is quite simply true. Bury your heads in the sand, or put on the Carr loving colored glasses, or whatever else your escape from reality is regarding Carr, but know that there are some people on the board capable of seeing and critiquing players based on their actual playing during the game.

Now do we get rid of him. No. We keep him and draft his replacement so that when we spend the next season with a new coach and scheme, we can build the team and NOT put in a rookie QB in his first year in the NFL.

abbest
12-05-2005, 06:59 PM
Welcome brother Daddypapa to the I love/I hate David Carr front line. This is an on going fight that neither side will ever agree on nor come to mutual terms in which both side can agree. You are in this for the long haul. Welcome.

However it is almost pointless to argue with the Carr haters. Their pure blind hatred for the man prevents them from ever seeing anything positive. This is the group that blames Carr for 9/11.

Calling them armchair QB's or ignorent will always shoot back with the answer, "this is a message board I can say what I want", "It's a free country", or my personal favorite "Your a do-do head."

If you throw stats at them, proving that up until this year he was putting up the same numbers as your Elway's, Farve"s, and Marino's, they will tell stats arent everything. They say that b/c they know this does prove he is pretty darn good and they are too deep in there own hatred to admit they are wrong.

It is too the point when receivers drop the ball it is still Carr's fault. Like when Bradford has a step on two defenders and Carr laid it right into his hands and Bradford dropped it. That was Carr's fault. Of course what the Carr haters say is he should have thrown to Dre so, yes he could get the 1st,but let the time run out on the clock.

Someday Carr will be on another team lighting up the score board and leading his team to divisional tittles and championships. The when the Carr lovers post things like "We told you so" those posts will be conviently moved to forums where they will never be read of seen.Everybody is entitled to dream on.

Double Barrel
12-05-2005, 07:01 PM
Wow, a David-Carr-post. Man, haven't seen one of those around in....ohhhhh...6 minutes? idonno:

But I digress. I'm one of those fans in the middle. I can admit that Carr has some..."worrisome tendencies". Sure, there are mechanics and things that he hasn't improved since college. I understand that pov.

However, Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring.

Think about that for a moment...let it sink in...absorb the full understanding of that reality.

Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring....

Man, I get the heeby-jeebies everytime I think about it.

The point being is that you don't have to have a stud QB if you have a good, solid supporting cast and dominant defense.

And personally, I do believe two things: David Carr is a better potential QB than Trent Dilfer, and, we aren't going to find a better QB than what we've already got anytime soon.

So, IMHO, we should keep DC, build a solid, consistent o-line, get a good TE and #2 WR, and see what happens. We'd know soon enough, if he's got a good supporting cast, if it's the QB of the future or not.

Besides, starting over with another rookie QB just makes me uneasy. Dude would suffer the same fate that DC has endured for four seasons. Man, I just don't think I could witness another one of those slaughters. :)

thegr8fan
12-05-2005, 07:16 PM
I disagree. Draft a QB: like San Diego did? well let me think about that for a second. San Diego drafted a QB and BAM, Drew Brees woke up and started playing up to his potential. And started winning quite a few games in the process, wow what a concept. What's the matter, all you Carr lovers think you might have to eat a little crow when Carr doesn't do the same thing? Competition is one thing that Carr has NEVER had with the current regime. I can only hope that that changes with the new coaching staff.

And Double Barrell, you correct. Carr is quite capable of managing a game, and with the proper D and special teams help we could win a game, even WITH Carr and his current flaws. He isn't a hopeless case or cause. But he definitely needs someone to step in and smack him on the back of the head and go 'what were you thinking' on some of the bonehead decisions he makes, IMHO. If the right coach's come onboard and correct Carr's problems he is well worth his salary. But I still wouldn't mind a Philip Rivers sitting there on the bench with a "I'm your replacement should you mess up, Carr" sign hanging around his neck.

MorKnolle
12-05-2005, 08:46 PM
I wouldn't mind getting a more competent QB in here to back up Carr but we don't need to spend a first round pick and another $35 million on one.

mapleleaf
12-05-2005, 10:54 PM
We should send Carr to the Eagles for one of their guys...not McNabb though, I have a feeling he's a jinx.

Honoring Earl 34
12-06-2005, 12:28 PM
:texflag: Well ... he completed one for a TD.

SESupergenius
12-06-2005, 01:33 PM
well let me think about that for a second. San Diego drafted a QB and BAM, Drew Brees woke up and started playing up to his potential. And started winning quite a few games in the process, wow what a concept. What's the matter, all you Carr lovers think you might have to eat a little crow when Carr doesn't do the same thing? Competition is one thing that Carr has NEVER had with the current regime. I can only hope that that changes with the new coaching staff.

And Double Barrell, you correct. Carr is quite capable of managing a game, and with the proper D and special teams help we could win a game, even WITH Carr and his current flaws. He isn't a hopeless case or cause. But he definitely needs someone to step in and smack him on the back of the head and go 'what were you thinking' on some of the bonehead decisions he makes, IMHO. If the right coach's come onboard and correct Carr's problems he is well worth his salary. But I still wouldn't mind a Philip Rivers sitting there on the bench with a "I'm your replacement should you mess up, Carr" sign hanging around his neck.
Uh nice try but San Diego brought in pieces from almost every positions to help out this team, that includes drafting another QB. Brees was a good QB before last year but didn't have the weapons needed to be a playoff team. It didn't magically happen once they drafted Rivers. They got Gates, McCardell and host of other players in the draft to blend it all together. When you see that kind of approach from our GM you just let me know. Do you see Casserly having the foresight to pick a Brady in any draft? Until then keep firing off that Carr is the problem and make yourself look blindfolded to the real problems on this team. It all starts with the defense.

MorKnolle
12-06-2005, 01:54 PM
Uh nice try but San Diego brought in pieces from almost every positions to help out this team, that includes drafting another QB. Brees was a good QB before last year but didn't have the weapons needed to be a playoff team. It didn't magically happen once they drafted Rivers. They got Gates, McCardell and host of other players in the draft to blend it all together. When you see that kind of approach from our GM you just let me know. Do you see Casserly having the foresight to pick a Brady in any draft? Until then keep firing off that Carr is the problem and make yourself look blindfolded to the real problems on this team. It all starts with the defense.

I agree, it's not like just drafting Philip Rivers has magically made Drew Brees an good QB.

SheTexan
12-06-2005, 03:24 PM
We, the people who understand whats really going on, see the fatal flaws in Carr. Listen, comparing Carr to the likes of Montana, Young, Bradshaw, etc. is crazy. Carr is not, and will never be like, and could never attain the greatness of those mentioned. He is a medicore QB. When the line holds up, when he takes a 5-step drop, when he scans the field for open receivers... he 75% of the time, chokes. Yes, he has made some great plays and thrown some spectacular balls, but not enough to call him great. The record books will not be flooded with his records (except most sacks), and the hall of fame will never call him up. Thats just the facts. Get over it.
~Proteus


I am saving this post, and will be more than happy to see if you have the guts to eat crow when DC takes this team to the SB, and gets inducted into the HOF. BTW: speak for yourself!! That "We, the people who understand whats really going on," is up for debate! I KNOW whats going on and I DON't agree with you!! It will be fun to see who gets over it!!

Coach C.
12-06-2005, 03:37 PM
shetexan I admire your spunk you lil fireball, but saying DC going to the HOF and SB is a bit premature at this point. I am a Carr supporter with a little less blind faith than most. I think there are three sides on Carr. The ones that just hate him because he has not won us games regardless of team shortcomings, the ones that love him for his potential, and the few on this MB that see potential and weigh it vs. output and team shortcomings and come out in the middle of the pack.

Double Barrel
12-06-2005, 04:20 PM
SheTexan is keeping it optimistic...and why not? DC is our QB whether we like it or not.

And remember, Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring.... :ok:

Shaunny66
12-06-2005, 05:17 PM
Why get ride of Carr? Houston Just needs a better offensive line. Duh people.... losers:texans:

TEXANRED
12-06-2005, 06:00 PM
Carr isn't the entire problem with the team. But he is ONE of the problems. The sooner some of you golden boy loving Carr fans admit that there is a problem there, the sooner we can stop reading posts about how great he is, and how it is all someone else's fault, and if he only had this, that, or the other, help he would win the Superbowl without even breaking a sweat. Probably even pulling a Manning and go 16-0 or something.

Give me a break.

Carr has some serious development problems. It is quite simply true. Bury your heads in the sand, or put on the Carr loving colored glasses, or whatever else your escape from reality is regarding Carr, but know that there are some people on the board capable of seeing and critiquing players based on their actual playing during the game.

Thats funny, this golden boy loving fan is just as sick and tired of reading the same dull nonsincecall drible that spouts from the Carr haters. Week after week of the same pompus Carr slander that always seems to find a way to blame Carr for another loss.

No its not all Carr's fault but he shares some of the blame as well. There really are 21 other players out on the field.

So I will make you a deal, I will take my head out of the sand if you take your head out of your whoha and we could meet somewhere in the middle.:rolleyes:

NFLforher
12-06-2005, 09:52 PM
This is hilarious.


Yes.

Bobo
12-07-2005, 11:12 AM
We, the people who understand whats really going on, see the fatal flaws in Carr. Listen, comparing Carr to the likes of Montana, Young, Bradshaw, etc. is crazy. Carr is not, and will never be like, and could never attain the greatness of those mentioned. He is a medicore QB. When the line holds up, when he takes a 5-step drop, when he scans the field for open receivers... he 75% of the time, chokes. Yes, he has made some great plays and thrown some spectacular balls, but not enough to call him great. The record books will not be flooded with his records (except most sacks), and the hall of fame will never call him up. Thats just the facts. Get over it.
~Proteus

When Carr got some consistent pass protection, he was able to throw for more than 3,000 yards in one season. Comparing Carr to Bradshaw and Young is not crazy. I saw Bradshaw and Young in their first years with bad teams and they were laughable. I'm not saying Carr is great. Perhaps he is mediocre. But history has proven that mediocre QBs can take a team to the Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer and Stan Humphries are just two who come to mind.