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View Full Version : Think we can keep Marciano?


Grid
12-01-2005, 05:58 PM
So its been said that when the head coach goes, his staff usually goes with him.

I imagine that is even more true when both the GM and head coach go.

Thing is.. I think alot of us will agree that Marciano is a great special teams coach and we would like to see him stay. So, yall think there is any chance we will get to keep Joe Marciano here?

I think alot of people would also still agree that Hoke is a great DB coach, and we would like to see him stay too.

ArlingtonTexan
12-01-2005, 06:08 PM
I am not saving that Joe M. sucks or anything, but it sems like he now a "great" special teams coach when he has a guy who can break a long return at any point and he has been seen running around the sidelines a couple of times.

Stanley's underwhelming performance this year and last week's onsides kick fiasco fall on his plate.

Grid
12-01-2005, 06:11 PM
eh.. our special teams have always been good under him. Stanley's underwhelming performance is on Stanley's shoulders.. its not like it is something that has happened often..stanley is a great kicker.

As for the onsides kick fiasco.. yah that sucked.. but that is a minor issue that can be solved without firing a very good special teams coach.


I dont think the inclusion of Mathis is what makes him a great special teams coach.. like i said, we have always had a good special teams squad. We have never been suffering in that area.

ArlingtonTexan
12-01-2005, 06:33 PM
eh.. our special teams have always been good under him. Stanley's underwhelming performance is on Stanley's shoulders.. its not like it is something that has happened often..stanley is a great kicker.

As for the onsides kick fiasco.. yah that sucked.. but that is a minor issue that can be solved without firing a very good special teams coach.


I dont think the inclusion of Mathis is what makes him a great special teams coach.. like i said, we have always had a good special teams squad. We have never been suffering in that area.

So when the punter is last the AFC in punting the special teams coach has nothing to do with? There are plenty of other positions where the same standard is not equally applied.

There has been nothing particaular bad or good about our special until Mathis start running kickoffs back for touchdowns. I am consistently amazed how people fall in love with a decent guy who is doing his job well enough. I have no problem keeping him, but he did not turn great until Mathis got here....amazing.

Grid
12-01-2005, 06:35 PM
I honestly think thats bull.. im not blind here bud.

Our punting and kicking and special teams play has been great for 3 years.

I find it amazing that one player can have a bad season and suddenly the coach is 100% responsible.

I guess our linebackers coach ran out on the field and kicked Wong in the knee too.. that bastage.. fire him.

ArlingtonTexan
12-01-2005, 06:52 PM
I honestly think thats bull.. im not blind here bud.

Our punting and kicking and special teams play has been great for 3 years.

I find it amazing that one player can have a bad season and suddenly the coach is 100% responsible.

I guess our linebackers coach ran out on the field and kicked Wong in the knee too.. that bastage.. fire him.

No our punting and kicking games were average at best. Because something does not suck, does not make it great. There is a middle ground where in fact most thing lie.

Along those lines I am not saying Joe M. can make Stanley into Ray Guy, but if your going to call him GREAT, it means that he should give his punter some advice or tips to help him not be last.

It is obvious that I have a different standard of what GREAT is.

BTW, please find all of the Houston Special Teams are great thread/ Joe M. is great ST coach before Mathis return a kick for a touchdown or you saw on ESPN's Sunday night game running down the sidelines. I am betting that half of the people who are going to reply (and tell me how wrong I am)after this could not named him before either of those.

GP
12-01-2005, 07:32 PM
Couldn't name him before Mathis?

I have been lobbying since week 3 for him to be the caretaker of this team.

I think it's more obvious that YOU did not know his name rather than all of us.

He has been doing a great job, period. Even with JJ Moses, we had awesome field position most of the time and JJ only put the ball on the ground ONE time the entire season.

He seems to find a way to get the MOST of his players on a consistent basis.

As to why Stanley is not doing as well as usual, I don't think you pin it on a guy like Joe who has done a ton of RIGHT things in spite of the one little nugget you've dug to support your attempt at making yourself into the supergenius and thus putting all of us into the "nut house" for patting a guy on the back for doing something not just good...but for doing it GREAT.

Texans_Chick
12-01-2005, 07:52 PM
BTW, please find all of the Houston Special Teams are great thread/ Joe M. is great ST coach before Mathis return a kick for a touchdown or you saw on ESPN's Sunday night game running down the sidelines. I am betting that half of the people who are going to reply (and tell me how wrong I am)after this could not named him before either of those.

OK, put me in the half that knew who he was and dig him, see e.g. many threads where I have talked about him:

A September thread talking about something the year before (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12358)


A quote:

"I don't think they are doing it this year, but last year they had a short film session with Joe Marciano, the special teams coach. By the end of his Q&A session, I wanted to run through a brick wall for him. I've spoken to a number of the special teams players and they think he is awesome. He struck me as someone who knew his stuff, was really organized, intense, a straight talker and did a great job of motivating people. He talked about stuff that TV broadcasts never talk about--I have never watched our special teams the same way since then."

Basically, our special teams has outperformed the rest of the squad using the same personnel since the beginning of the franchise. Marciano is well regarded in the league, and I understand why. I am not easily impressed but Coach Joe in person really is amazing.

I don't know what any new regime might want, but there may be a possibility that Coach Joe would want to stay. Keeping routines the same and keeping caretakers the same is important for autistic children, and Coach Joe may want to stay to keep things the same for his son.




BTW, I am still looking for someone to post the video of Marciano sprinting down the sideline with Mathis. Never saw that. Did see him celebrating some with Jonathan Wells during the Rams game.

infantrycak
12-01-2005, 08:26 PM
I honestly think thats bull.. im not blind here bud.

Our punting and kicking and special teams play has been great for 3 years.

I find it amazing that one player can have a bad season and suddenly the coach is 100% responsible.

I guess our linebackers coach ran out on the field and kicked Wong in the knee too.. that bastage.. fire him.

Great?--at what? One area was punts inside the 20, but according to you that falls solely on Stanley so Marciano can't take credit for that. The kick and punt return blocking has been very subpar, including lots of penalties, IMO the last couple years. The coverage has been above average, but not stellar. We have what 1 blocked field goal and 2 blocked punts in two years--two of them by one guy in the same game. Don't see where the special teams have been all that special until lately.

Texans_Chick
12-01-2005, 09:03 PM
Great?--at what? One area was punts inside the 20, but according to you that falls solely on Stanley so Marciano can't take credit for that. The kick and punt return blocking has been very subpar, including lots of penalties, IMO the last couple years. The coverage has been above average, but not stellar. We have what 1 blocked field goal and 2 blocked punts in two years--two of them by one guy in the same game. Don't see where the special teams have been all that special until lately.


My point of view has always been that the special teams has outperformed the rest of the team. That is, with the same basic talent, it has played better than the rest of the Texans.

Last year, Marciano was already stating that JJ, though he had good hands and nice moves, was gonna have to be replaced because did not have breakaway speed.

We've also in the past had a few key fake punts.

The guys like playing for him, he has a nice resume, he has consistently taken the players he has and made them play better than the O and D.

Marciano has always been the first to state that he looks like a better coach the better players he has. In addition, from what I heard, he was the one that was selling Mathis.

Whether we use the words "great" or "above average" or whatever, I would like Marciano to stay. The players I've talked to about him completely light up when they talk about Coach Joe.

:texflag:

aj.
12-01-2005, 09:13 PM
Did see him celebrating some with Jonathan Wells during the Rams game.

If you mean the sprint down the sideline and the flying chest bump in the endzone, yes, I saw that.

Along with Mathis returning kckoffs, Texans special teams have been very good this year defending punt returns. But as for past years, they were nothing special. I've spoken with Coach Joe several times and he is a great guy, but just because a coach is animated doesn't make him a great coach. The system that is producing all these great Mathis returns is the same one that is producing the Morency returns. I would expect the Texans have already heard from the league about Coach Joe's sideline sprints. He's a good special teams coach and he would be a good one to keep.

Texans_Chick
12-01-2005, 09:41 PM
If you mean the sprint down the sideline and the flying chest bump in the endzone, yes, I saw that.

Along with Mathis returning kckoffs, Texans special teams have been very good this year defending punt returns. But as for past years, they were nothing special. I've spoken with Coach Joe several times and he is a great guy, but just because a coach is animated doesn't make him a great coach. The system that is producing all these great Mathis returns is the same one that is producing the Morency returns. I would expect the Texans have already heard from the league about Coach Joe's sideline sprints. He's a good special teams coach and he would be a good one to keep.


I like him as a special teams coach and have never suggested that he be put as the head coach.

Check out the rankings from Football Outsiders on special teams:

2002 Ranked 7th in Entire League (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2002.php)

2003 Ranked 4th in Entire League (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2003.php)

2004 Ranked 27th in Entire League (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst2004.php)

2005 so far, ranked 1st in Entire League (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst.php)

Stats can hide a lot of stuff and are just part of the story, but personally, I find the stats remarkable given how little control Coach Joe ultimately has on who he has on the Special Teams. He gets to have his say, of course, but he gets people sometimes because of the other part of the team's needs and he sometimes loses people because of business considerations, mostly salary cap stuff.

I am sure he could have whatever ST job he wanted.




*I am guessing last year's drop off was because our kickers were hurt for the last part of the year, but that is just guessing.

YoungTexanFan
12-01-2005, 11:33 PM
Along those lines I am not saying Joe M. can make Stanley into Ray Guy,

i went to his camp!

ArlingtonTexan
12-02-2005, 12:10 AM
If you mean the sprint down the sideline and the flying chest bump in the endzone, yes, I saw that.

Along with Mathis returning kckoffs, Texans special teams have been very good this year defending punt returns. But as for past years, they were nothing special. I've spoken with Coach Joe several times and he is a great guy, but just because a coach is animated doesn't make him a great coach. The system that is producing all these great Mathis returns is the same one that is producing the Morency returns. I would expect the Texans have already heard from the league about Coach Joe's sideline sprints. He's a good special teams coach and he would be a good one to keep.

Here is a good balance approach to Joe M. Gives him just credit for doing a fine job, but does not loosely through around superlatives.

GP
12-02-2005, 12:31 AM
Why is it that a lot of people here are sooooooooo down on the Texans that EVERYTHING must suck about our team? I can't believe the amount of deep depression that has set in here that all that can be posted is crack on (fill in the blank) all day long.

Are you telling me that there's no other team out there right now that wouldn't scoop up a guy like Marciano RIGHT NOW?

Man, we're fortunate to have this guy and he's getting NO love. But, of course, it's because he's doing something great on a team that isn't doing anything great itself.

If we were 10-1 right now, he'd be getting all the love in the world right now., right along with the rest of the team. He'd be getting his fair share of parades thrown in his honor right now.

What a difference a record makes. Go ahead haters, and kill this off with your morbid obsession with finding neat ways to crack on our team all day and all night right now.

Grid
12-02-2005, 12:36 AM
so semantics is the problem? ok here is my "revised opinion"


Coach Marciano is adequate. Id rather not replace him and risk getting someone not quite as good as him. Id like to see us keep him.

Jon Hoke is also adequate.

ArlingtonTexan
12-02-2005, 12:41 AM
Why is it that a lot of people here are sooooooooo down on the Texans that EVERYTHING must suck about our team? I can't believe the amount of deep depression that has set in here that all that can be posted is crack on (fill in the blank) all day long.

Are you telling me that there's no other team out there right now that wouldn't scoop up a guy like Marciano RIGHT NOW?

Man, we're fortunate to have this guy and he's getting NO love. But, of course, it's because he's doing something great on a team that isn't doing anything great itself.

If we were 10-1 right now, he'd be getting all the love in the world right now., right along with the rest of the team. He'd be getting his fair share of parades thrown in his honor right now.

What a difference a record makes. Go ahead haters, and kill this off with your morbid obsession with finding neat ways to crack on our team all day and all night right now.

Joe's body of work is good, not great. Too many of the people on this board, want to give too much credit (great) or not enough (sucks). what some of us are looking for is people having the ability to analyze and not loosely through around the extremes. My point was actually middle ground, but too many of you deal with extremes, so like this post implies saying someone is good makes it sound like you are being unfairly critical. In relative terms, our special teams are fine overall, but not without areas of improvement. Enough areas of improvement for Joe M. not to be classified as great.

Double Barrel
12-02-2005, 12:44 AM
If the new HC wants to keep Marciano on his staff, I support his decision 100%.

If the new HC wants a different ST coach, I support his decision 100%.

The blown offsides kick kinda' put Marciano in that neutral category for me. I know we haven't had many onsides kicks thrown at us this year, but a coach's responsibility is to have the players ready for that scenario.

That play was huge and would have won the game for the Texans if it went our way, IIRC.

Grid
12-02-2005, 01:26 AM
Joe's body of work is good, not great. Too many of the people on this board, want to give too much credit (great) or not enough (sucks). what some of us are looking for is people having the ability to analyze and not loosely through around the extremes.

I think this boils down to miscommunication.. at least in this instance. I said that Marciano is a "great" special teams coach and that I think alot of people here would agree that we would like to see him stay. I didnt say "GREAT!" or "OMG AWESOME!" or even "one of the best in the league".. all i said was "great".

Now.. in this case, my interpretation of "great" was simply "a good coach that does his job well".

You then made the comment that he wasnt "great" until mathis came along and Stanley's troubles fall on his plate.. I disagreed.. and you became amazed that i have been "brainwashed" or "easily swayed" into beleiving we had the greatest coach of all time on our team.. etc..etc..

I think that.. perhaps.. you shouldnt go into every post with the idea that the person's opinion is false and based on ignorance. You may be surprised to find that between the annoying posts that are ill informed and not thought out.. there are actually people posting here who, in some cases, either know what they are talking about, or are simply posting an opinion to see what other people think.

in my case.. I was sitting around thinking about who we were gonna get as our new coaches.. and the thought struck me that I wouldnt mind keeping Marciano because I like what he has done with our special teams. I didnt just take a break from my Marciano worshipping shrine to come here and post about his "GREATNESS!!!!"

You say that you are amazed how people will just fall over themselves praising someone if they do one thing right.. I am amazed that there are so many people on this board who will forget everything we ever did right the moment that we start doing something wrong. In this case.. im surprised that you think our special teams have sucked for 4 years when they have ACTUALLY BEEN one of our strong points. Im not making that up.. people have been happy with our special teams for a while now.. or at least..i havent seen anyone complaining about anything except our lack of "take it to the house" speed.


Anyway. All of us are tired of people posting hair brained ideas and pointing fingers.. but we should at least make an effort to view each post individually from other posts we have read.. otherwise everyone is gonna be biting everyone elses head off.

MorKnolle
12-02-2005, 11:26 AM
Our kick returning before with Moses was always pretty good and we'd open decent lanes for him but he just didn't have the speed to take them all the way for a TD. We are 1st in the NFL with a 27.1 yards per kickoff return average and are the only team with 2 TDs. Stanley doesn't have a wow punt average but he has been kicking the ball high to limit opponent's returns much of the season, so it's not like he's kicking for max distance all the time (2nd in NFL in yards allowed per punt return with 4.7 and no TDs and a long of 18 yards). He is one of the better precision punters in the league.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2005, 11:48 AM
I have always thought our Special Teams did its job admirably. We have not turned the ball over often, but have not created may turnovers. I think they are the one unit that has performed up to expectations in our four years.

ArlingtonTexan
12-02-2005, 01:26 PM
I think this boils down to miscommunication.. at least in this instance. I said that Marciano is a "great" special teams coach and that I think alot of people here would agree that we would like to see him stay. I didnt say "GREAT!" or "OMG AWESOME!" or even "one of the best in the league".. all i said was "great".

Now.. in this case, my interpretation of "great" was simply "a good coach that does his job well".

You then made the comment that he wasnt "great" until mathis came along and Stanley's troubles fall on his plate.. I disagreed.. and you became amazed that i have been "brainwashed" or "easily swayed" into beleiving we had the greatest coach of all time on our team.. etc..etc..

I think that.. perhaps.. you shouldnt go into every post with the idea that the person's opinion is false and based on ignorance. You may be surprised to find that between the annoying posts that are ill informed and not thought out.. there are actually people posting here who, in some cases, either know what they are talking about, or are simply posting an opinion to see what other people think.

in my case.. I was sitting around thinking about who we were gonna get as our new coaches.. and the thought struck me that I wouldnt mind keeping Marciano because I like what he has done with our special teams. I didnt just take a break from my Marciano worshipping shrine to come here and post about his "GREATNESS!!!!"

You say that you are amazed how people will just fall over themselves praising someone if they do one thing right.. I am amazed that there are so many people on this board who will forget everything we ever did right the moment that we start doing something wrong. In this case.. im surprised that you think our special teams have sucked for 4 years when they have ACTUALLY BEEN one of our strong points. Im not making that up.. people have been happy with our special teams for a while now.. or at least..i havent seen anyone complaining about anything except our lack of "take it to the house" speed.


Anyway. All of us are tired of people posting hair brained ideas and pointing fingers.. but we should at least make an effort to view each post individually from other posts we have read.. otherwise everyone is gonna be biting everyone elses head off.

Seriously, where did I say the special teams play suck. You are still doing the same thing that started everything in the first place. I take a middle on the special team (which has 4 years of reality) and you making it sound unfair.

I have no problem discussing Marciano's work, but when you start from an extreme premise ...that he is GREAT, then anybody who does say he has done a good job, but it was his unit did not recover a key onsides kick that directly caused a lost. After you paint me being hard on the guy when I am only trying give the complete picture. For many of us, saying someone is great or a great job is saying that he is awesome. (I could be just getting old) and that there are not obvious flaws.

On the difference between "good" and "great," I will quote Rush Limbaugh, "Words mean things"

billtxus
12-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Special teams have consistently played pretty well for the four years of the team. Stanley, though not great the past couple of games, has generally been pretty consistent, and Lord knows he gets plenty of action. Field goals as well have been pretty automatic until the last couple of games. Of course Mathis makes him look better, but even on the defensive side of things the team hasn't given up much on returns. So I give the props on a weak staff.

WaylonJennings67
12-02-2005, 02:28 PM
Coach Joe's a class act......here's hoping he remains with the TEXANS.

edo783
12-02-2005, 04:16 PM
I think Stanley's leg is just getting tired from kicking so much. The special teams have been the ONLY part of the team that has been reasonably solid for the last 2-3 years.

BigDTexansFan
12-03-2005, 02:46 AM
So its been said that when the head coach goes, his staff usually goes with him.

I imagine that is even more true when both the GM and head coach go.

Thing is.. I think alot of us will agree that Marciano is a great special teams coach and we would like to see him stay. So, yall think there is any chance we will get to keep Joe Marciano here?

I think alot of people would also still agree that Hoke is a great DB coach, and we would like to see him stay too.


Rumor has it Hoke is being looked at by a couple of colleges, as to Marciano write Bob McNair and point out of all 3 phases only 1 is exceeding expectations and players are playing at peak...Special Teams

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 09:20 PM
I know it was one game, but that type of perfromance by his unit can never happen again. That may have been the worst special teams play I have ever seen in one game (decent weather).

Runner
12-04-2005, 09:23 PM
I know it was one game, but that type of perfromance by his unit can never happen again. That may have been the worst special teams play I have ever seen in one game (decent weather).

Our's or their's? That fair catch call on the kickoff was humorous.

Kaiser Toro
12-04-2005, 09:33 PM
Our's or their's? That fair catch call on the kickoff was humorous.

Ours - fumbles, muffs and penalties galore.

Runner
12-04-2005, 09:41 PM
I know what you meant. It is just funny that two weeks of playing teams (almost) as bad as us have us clutching at straws on other posts.