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gtexan02
11-30-2005, 08:34 PM
Check us out! National publicity is great for the getting rid of Capers business:

http://espn.go.com/

Ryan
11-30-2005, 08:44 PM
there is no such thing as bad publicity

Trap_Star
11-30-2005, 08:46 PM
FIRE THEM!!! FIRE THEM ALL!!!!!!!:brickwall

Hervoyel
11-30-2005, 08:51 PM
It sucks watching Capers go down like this. I believe that a coaching change is inevitable, necessary, and that Dom has mostly lost this team but I can't muster up much in the way of dislike for the man nor can I take any pleasure in his failing.

It's something I hoped we wouldn't have to see for a long, long time.

DRAMA
11-30-2005, 09:04 PM
FIRE THEM!!! FIRE THEM ALL!!!!!!!:brickwall


BURN 'EM! BURN 'EM ALL!!!!! - Johnny Ringo

Ibar_Harry
11-30-2005, 09:19 PM
At least his mouth was closed...................

eriadoc
11-30-2005, 09:22 PM
It sucks watching Capers go down like this. I believe that a coaching change is inevitable, necessary, and that Dom has mostly lost this team but I can't muster up much in the way of dislike for the man nor can I take any pleasure in his failing.

It's something I hoped we wouldn't have to see for a long, long time.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I hope he catches on somewhere and does well.

YoungTexanFan
11-30-2005, 09:47 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself. I hope he catches on somewhere and does well.


he would be a great defensive cord.

some guys just arent capable of leading a team as a head coach, he unfortunatly is one of those guys.

God of Wine
11-30-2005, 09:51 PM
I'm part of the Fire Capers Club but I really like Dom Capers the person. I hate to see the season come down to this. I hope he goes to a organization close to winning instead of another team rebuilding/expansion. Personally I think I would like to see Casserly fired first.

bckey
11-30-2005, 09:52 PM
Put the guy out of his misery. He is suffering and the players are suffering playing for a guy they know is a goner. I can't see where this benefits anyone.

ATX_Texan
11-30-2005, 10:01 PM
From the article:

Owner Bob McNair would love nothing better than to keep Dom Capers. He knows Capers is a good coach. But McNair doesn't just answer to himself. He has a minority ownership group to please, but most important, he needs to show the fans something. He realizes the fans won't buy Capers' return. To be four years into expansion and be worse than the first year just doesn't sell tickets. McNair quietly was hoping Capers would win four of his last six to give him a case to take before the fans and the board. Had the Texans finished with five or six wins, McNair could have said that with adjustments among the assistants, the Texans could move ahead to Year 5 and rebuild the team around David Carr. But at 1-10, that's not a sale he can make. The Texans probably will be looking to get things right quickly. Should Brian Billick or Mike Martz become available, they will move toward the top of his list because they could bring in the offensive structure to give Carr a chance to be a successful quarterback. After going with a defensive coach to start the franchise in Capers, the Texans will probably lean toward offense with their next move.

It is pretty disappointing that McNair would consider retaining Capers with a 5 -11 or 6-10 record. This whole "adjust the assistants" and rebuild around Carr is pretty comical given Capers inability to make any adjustments during his tenure with the Texans.

Here's hoping that Capers keeps the losing streak for the remainder of the year. Of course, the thought of Billick or Martz as his replacement does not inspire much hope for the future either.

There is no mention of Casserly, so I guess that means we will have to endure another botched off-season.

aj.
11-30-2005, 10:17 PM
Check us out! National publicity is great for the getting rid of Capers business:

Sad, but necessary. Dom's a hellava good guy but it's just not working out...

ledzeppelin229
11-30-2005, 10:43 PM
I have no doubt that he will catch on somewhere as a DC. I've been kind of hard on him in frustration but I don't have anything against him as a person either.

Grid
11-30-2005, 10:46 PM
oh god.. please keep Capers over Billick or Martz.

Billick has done worse than Capers despite having one of the best defensive lineups in the league. And if you think Capers makes boneheaded decisions in games.. wait till you see what Martz is capable of.

houstonhurricane
11-30-2005, 10:47 PM
I highly doubt that the next coach will be able to muster 1/3 of the class that Capers has shown us throughout his tenure. The though of crazy Martz or Billick coming into town with Casserly at their side makes me want to vomit...:cool:

Napa Auto Parts
11-30-2005, 10:52 PM
I sure as hell dont like Billick he wont be able to do anything here We have a Kyle Boller type of Qb here as well. i wont mention any names who that certain Qb is i dont want the Homers Getting all riled up.



And Martz his Qb has to have some Cajones To stay in the Pocket and wait for a route to develop and we dont have that type of Qb either especially having so many options in Martz Offense Our Qb No names of course would LOCK on to his first read like always.:brickwall

Texans427
11-30-2005, 11:16 PM
I do believe that we should keep that #1 pick and get the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!! We need to start thinking about better personnel. I am not in favor of trading down for a tackle or a guard. I'd rather throw a little cash at a FA (tackle or guard) and get youth and experience instead of just drafting youth. Go along the lines of what Detroit did. They drafted the best player at their time to pick. Granted, they OVERDID it with wide receivers and NO running support and Joey was just way overrated. That's one reason why Mooch got the ax. We draft Reggie Bush, that puts pressure on DD and Wells to get their act together. We draft Matt Leinart, that puts pressure on Carr (and his Dad) to step it up a few notches. Our receivers shouldn't have anything to fret over because the "system" that they operate under doesn't effectively get them the ball. Get rid of the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. Fangio has no clue. They always rate low in the tackling dept. and when the Colts had him, they had the WORST defense in the NFL. If I had may choice, I'd ask if Buddy Ryan would consider coming out of retirement. I'd like to see what the "46" defense could be like with the Texans. Casserly needs to be given the boot also. Washington is NOW starting to recover from most of the personnel blunders he made. He may be a nice person but a great football mind.....UHH NO!! GM choices: Ron Wolf or Jimmy Johnson My coach(es) of choice: Jimmy, of course, would be the first choice. I would even entertain asking Mack Brown. Now, before you flinch your noses at that, hear me out--Mack, if nothing else, knows TALENT and if he is surrounded be knowledgeable football minds, all he should do is run the team effectively. Pete Carroll--I know this would be his 2nd go-around in the NFL, but what better resume' could you read than his right about now. I don't see Mike Martz as a head coach, but as an offensive coordinator..ABSOLUTELY!!!!
I know these may be off the beaten path but that's why it is always good to dream!!

Sayonara!!

HoustonFan
11-30-2005, 11:28 PM
It sucks watching Capers go down like this. I believe that a coaching change is inevitable, necessary, and that Dom has mostly lost this team but I can't muster up much in the way of dislike for the man nor can I take any pleasure in his failing.

It's something I hoped we wouldn't have to see for a long, long time.

This is very true. I think this is how McNair feels.

Double Barrel
12-01-2005, 12:11 AM
It sucks watching Capers go down like this. I believe that a coaching change is inevitable, necessary, and that Dom has mostly lost this team but I can't muster up much in the way of dislike for the man nor can I take any pleasure in his failing.

It's something I hoped we wouldn't have to see for a long, long time.

Indeed. Even though we wanted it and knew it was inevitable, it's still a sad spectacle to endure. :cool:

I hope Coach Capers does well somewhere else, too....in another division, of course.

Nighthawk
12-01-2005, 12:15 AM
It sucks watching Capers go down like this. I believe that a coaching change is inevitable, necessary, and that Dom has mostly lost this team but I can't muster up much in the way of dislike for the man nor can I take any pleasure in his failing.

NOBODY dislikes Capers, or Casserly, or any of this sad bunch of coaches. It's not about Capers, it's about the team being real bad. It's unfortunate all the way around. Best would be to let him go now, not make him walk through these next five weeks as if nothing was wrong. What's wrong is making him stay.

ATX_Texan
12-01-2005, 08:40 AM
NOBODY dislikes Capers, or Casserly, or any of this sad bunch of coaches. It's not about Capers, it's about the team being real bad. It's unfortunate all the way around. Best would be to let him go now, not make him walk through these next five weeks as if nothing was wrong. What's wrong is making him stay.

You are right on this one. I feel that the meltdown of this year is just part of a continuing decline that started last season. None of us are trying to say that Capers or Casserly are bad people, just bad at running a football team. They are not right for the long term interests of this team. Capers seems to have become some kind of a matyr to many people around here. A good man being treated wrong. Unfortunately, it seems that these feelings are also shared by the owner if we are to believe the article from ESPN. Holding on to Capers for appearance sake is not good for this team or for Dom himself. Firing him now closes the door on this whole chapter in Texans' history and forces everyone to start on the process of rebuilding.

OzzO
12-01-2005, 08:58 AM
Short publicity... it's now Duke on the "front page headlines".

Texans Horror
12-01-2005, 09:48 AM
In looking towards next year, what I found interesting was the comment that they would build the offense around Carr. IMO, this sounds like McNair/Casserly are already planning a trade-down of Reggie Bush to give Carr a line and somebody else to throw to (TE).

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2005, 10:26 AM
oh god.. please keep Capers over Billick or Martz.

Billick has done worse than Capers despite having one of the best defensive lineups in the league. And if you think Capers makes boneheaded decisions in games.. wait till you see what Martz is capable of.

Billick and Martz have each coached a Super Bowl Champ. Capers has never coached in a Super Bowl.

cadahnic
12-01-2005, 10:36 AM
Toro I am with ya give me Wins above anything. I dont want either of them, but Grid's thought process is way off.

Hervoyel
12-01-2005, 10:41 AM
In looking towards next year, what I found interesting was the comment that they would build the offense around Carr. IMO, this sounds like McNair/Casserly are already planning a trade-down of Reggie Bush to give Carr a line and somebody else to throw to (TE).

I think at this point that almost everything we read everywhere is speculation. Honestly, other than "Mooch is fired in Detroit" and hence available (not that I'm saying we should go that route) nothing else is certain.

I can't wait for this season to get over with so we can get this show on the road.

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2005, 10:43 AM
Toro I am with ya give me Wins above anything. I dont want either of them, but Grid's thought process is way off.

I want guys with attitude and rings on our staff. Professional athletes respect coaches who have been to the top of the mountain, especially the more talented players.

Back to the article, I cannot belive I read the words to the tune of rebuilding around Carr. Any Texan on the roster who read that is probably calling their agent to say get me off this crazy thing. Has any player done less to warrant more?

I have contended for quite some time Martz would be a very good OC for a young Defensive minded HC like Jerry Gray.

cadahnic
12-01-2005, 10:48 AM
Almost every pro scout and personel person feels that CARR has tremendous talent. I have even heard some go as far as saying he is a more mobile Carson Palmer. I doubt that, but Palmer is more accurate and Carr has likely the bigger gun, but Palmer is winning and that is what counts.

I think ESPN and other sites that are talking about rebuilding around Carr are accuarate and feel that it is a good idea. I am one of those guys that thinks it is a good idea, but I will only hold that feeling for about half the next season. Cause with the new players and coaching staff Carr better get the job done.

tulexan
12-01-2005, 10:56 AM
Has any quarterback in the league taken more of a beating than Carr?

I don't think rebuilding around Carr means trading down to get more picks. That makes me think that they are going to focus on offense this offseason. If they have the first overall pick I really can't see them passing on Reggie Bush. McNair would be cruxified by the fans. It may not be our biggest need, but I have to say, the more I watch him the more I like him. I used to be a huge D'Brick no matter what guy, but after that Fresno State game I was convinced the other way. I think taking Bush first and Jean Gilles second would be just as good as taking D'Brick first and a TE second.

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2005, 11:08 AM
[QUOTE=bigTEXan8]I doubt any player on the roster is going to be upset that the Texans are finally going to protect the QB and give him other players around him, unless they are members of the o-line or anybody from the WR corp. [QUOTE]

Back in the early part of the season when I was very hard on DC and his contract, the question was posed - what happens when DC gets protection? Will that equate to more wins, better stats, more points? Looks like we have gotten more of the same. DC has an arm, is accurate and is tough, but those three attributes are not great enough to remedy is other deficiencies - reading the defense, progressions, footwork in the pocket, leadership. What is it going to take for the Texans to be successful with him as QB is the question I ask myself. I find a lot of people asking the question what is it going to take Carr to be successful with the Texans.

I am a Texans fan, not a Carr fan. Whatever is done will be done, I just want to win no matter who has at QB. It just pains me that we are hithcing the future of our franchise to somene who has has not produced.

ATX_Texan
12-01-2005, 12:48 PM
My thoughts on Billick and Martz are kind of the same of how I feel about Casserly. It seems like all three were somehow anointed with the title of genius and they continue to toted as football gods when their recent history does not warrant it.

We are always reminded of Casserly’s work with the Redskins and how many Super Bowls they won during those years. However, it is rarely mentioned that the previous GM played a role in assembling those teams. If you review the subsequent drafts, you see some success, but also plenty of questionable moves. The bottom line is the last Casserly Super Bowl team was over about 15 years ago and nothing indicates that the Texans are any closer to this lofty goal under his watch.

Brian Billick gained the reputation of being an offensive wiz based on his work with the Minnesota Vikings many years ago. A team that built by Dennis Green with an incredible assortment of superstars, including Randy Moss. Again, we are talking about events that occurred well over a decade ago. He was able to win a Super Bowl, but this team was built around playing defense and running the football, not the offense. This defense was largely the work of Marvin Lewis, who went on to create good defenses with both the Redskins and the Bengals. He was credited with maintaining some semblance of order during the chaos of the Spurrier era with the Skins. Lewis’ body of work also includes the revival of the horrible Bengals. So, maybe Lewis might have been the real reason for the success of the Ravens. Billick’s team never have been able to create any kind of an offense. It appears to be on the decline with age catching up with the defense. There have been numerous reports of players being undisciplined on and off the field under his watch.

Mike Martz is credited with the “Greatest Show on Turf”. However, the one Super Bowl the Rams won was actually coached by Dick Vermeil. Despite all the talent, Martz teams have only been to the Super Bowl once with him as the head man (a loss). Vermeil went on to create a similar offense with the Chiefs that the Texans have been trashed by on a few occasions. So the question is who really was the offensive genius? Martz has been widely criticized for ignoring the running game and putting the quarterback into harm’s way. He has made numerous tactical errors and displayed an inability to adjust to what the opponent is doing.

Napa Auto Parts
12-01-2005, 12:56 PM
I sure as hell dont like Billick he wont be able to do anything here We have a Kyle Boller type of Qb here as well. i wont mention any names who that certain Qb is i dont want the Homers Getting all riled up.



And Martz his Qb has to have some Cajones To stay in the Pocket and wait for a route to develop and we dont have that type of Qb either especially having so many options in Martz Offense Our Qb No names of course would LOCK on to his first read like always.:brickwall


Preach on Brother:texflag:

eriadoc
12-01-2005, 01:13 PM
I do believe that we should keep that #1 pick and get the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!! We need to start thinking about better personnel. I am not in favor of trading down for a tackle or a guard. I'd rather throw a little cash at a FA (tackle or guard) and get youth and experience instead of just drafting youth.

I posted this on another thread, but to summarize, there are precious few left tackles that were drafted outside the first round that are solid, much less game-changers. So if you draft Bush this year, you're essentially gambling that we buck the trend of history and find a diamond in the rough from round at left tackle. Or, if you prefer, look to free agency. Last year that got us Victor Riley. Thsi year, the list of free agent tackles consists of ONE starter -- LJ Shelton. He was dumped by Arizona after 6 years and signed by the Browns to a one-year contract. So we could get him.

Left tackles don't come from free agency. They get drafted in the first round and developed, or you accidentally stumble across one that you hadn't planned on (Kevin Shaffer, ATL, 7th round draft pick - coached by Gibbs).

eriadoc
12-01-2005, 01:19 PM
I am a Texans fan, not a Carr fan. Whatever is done will be done, I just want to win no matter who has at QB. It just pains me that we are hithcing the future of our franchise to somene who has has not produced.

This is where I'll have to disagree with you - slightly. If we a solid left tackle in the first round this year, we're not hitching our wagon to Carr. Sure, Carr gets another year or maybe two, but we're really focusing on the trenches. If Carr doesn't produce behind that line, it's easier to make a QB pick work at that point. Maybe you sign a vet FA next year to compete with Carr and the following year, draft Vince Young, or Brady Quinn, or whatever the next hot prospect is. At that point, you've solidified your line so that paying a top pick that kind of money won't be a waste.

I get what you're saying, I just choose to view it as fixing the foundation before you worry about the QB spot.

eriadoc
12-01-2005, 01:21 PM
My thoughts on Billick and Martz are kind of the same of how I feel about Casserly. It seems like all three were somehow anointed with the title of genius and they continue to toted as football gods when their recent history does not warrant it.

We are always reminded of Casserly’s work with the Redskins and how many Super Bowls they won during those years. However, it is rarely mentioned that the previous GM played a role in assembling those teams. If you review the subsequent drafts, you see some success, but also plenty of questionable moves. The bottom line is the last Casserly Super Bowl team was over about 15 years ago and nothing indicates that the Texans are any closer to this lofty goal under his watch.

Brian Billick gained the reputation of being an offensive wiz based on his work with the Minnesota Vikings many years ago. A team that built by Dennis Green with an incredible assortment of superstars, including Randy Moss. Again, we are talking about events that occurred well over a decade ago. He was able to win a Super Bowl, but this team was built around playing defense and running the football, not the offense. This defense was largely the work of Marvin Lewis, who went on to create good defenses with both the Redskins and the Bengals. He was credited with maintaining some semblance of order during the chaos of the Spurrier era with the Skins. Lewis’ body of work also includes the revival of the horrible Bengals. So, maybe Lewis might have been the real reason for the success of the Ravens. Billick’s team never have been able to create any kind of an offense. It appears to be on the decline with age catching up with the defense. There have been numerous reports of players being undisciplined on and off the field under his watch.

Mike Martz is credited with the “Greatest Show on Turf”. However, the one Super Bowl the Rams won was actually coached by Dick Vermeil. Despite all the talent, Martz teams have only been to the Super Bowl once with him as the head man (a loss). Vermeil went on to create a similar offense with the Chiefs that the Texans have been trashed by on a few occasions. So the question is who really was the offensive genius? Martz has been widely criticized for ignoring the running game and putting the quarterback into harm’s way. He has made numerous tactical errors and displayed an inability to adjust to what the opponent is doing.


Solid viewpoints.

los is 7
12-01-2005, 02:04 PM
I don't think Capers has been fired yet. I am with Dannymac who posted on another thread.

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2005, 02:40 PM
My thoughts on Billick and Martz are kind of the same of how I feel about Casserly. It seems like all three were somehow anointed with the title of genius and they continue to toted as football gods when their recent history does not warrant it.

We are always reminded of Casserly’s work with the Redskins and how many Super Bowls they won during those years. However, it is rarely mentioned that the previous GM played a role in assembling those teams. If you review the subsequent drafts, you see some success, but also plenty of questionable moves. The bottom line is the last Casserly Super Bowl team was over about 15 years ago and nothing indicates that the Texans are any closer to this lofty goal under his watch.

Brian Billick gained the reputation of being an offensive wiz based on his work with the Minnesota Vikings many years ago. A team that built by Dennis Green with an incredible assortment of superstars, including Randy Moss. Again, we are talking about events that occurred well over a decade ago. He was able to win a Super Bowl, but this team was built around playing defense and running the football, not the offense. This defense was largely the work of Marvin Lewis, who went on to create good defenses with both the Redskins and the Bengals. He was credited with maintaining some semblance of order during the chaos of the Spurrier era with the Skins. Lewis’ body of work also includes the revival of the horrible Bengals. So, maybe Lewis might have been the real reason for the success of the Ravens. Billick’s team never have been able to create any kind of an offense. It appears to be on the decline with age catching up with the defense. There have been numerous reports of players being undisciplined on and off the field under his watch.

Mike Martz is credited with the “Greatest Show on Turf”. However, the one Super Bowl the Rams won was actually coached by Dick Vermeil. Despite all the talent, Martz teams have only been to the Super Bowl once with him as the head man (a loss). Vermeil went on to create a similar offense with the Chiefs that the Texans have been trashed by on a few occasions. So the question is who really was the offensive genius? Martz has been widely criticized for ignoring the running game and putting the quarterback into harm’s way. He has made numerous tactical errors and displayed an inability to adjust to what the opponent is doing.

Before this season the Ravens were 60-41 under Billick. He came aboard in 1999. Lewis was there in 1996 and his stalwart defenses helped the Ravens to a 16-31 record. It was not until Billick got there did the team's attitude and winning ways begin. Billick's offense included the second best season ever by a RB. Oh yeah, he won a Super Bowl.

Martz's offense has put up great numbers. Good enough that Vermeil thought he would be more than adequate to take over the reigns in St.Louis. Has Vermeil been back to the Super Bowl? He has not. Martz did. Has Vermeil lost his QB in KC like when Warner went down? He has not. I do not want to take Martz as a HC, but come on lets compare apples with apples.

I cannot address a comparision between Casserly and the two guys above. It is apples and oranges.

ATX_Texan
12-01-2005, 03:46 PM
My response was actually based on this little nugget from the ESPN article: “Should Brian Billick or Mike Martz become available, they will move toward the top of his list because they could bring in the offensive structure to give Carr a chance to be a successful quarterback.”

I just find it strange that Billick is still credited with being an offensive genius. Again, most people tend to parrot this so-called fact, which seems to go back to his work with the Vikings years ago. I still question how much of his success as a head coach is based upon having one of the best defenses in the last ten years. A defense that he appears to not really be involved with. The GM of the Ravens is also credited with being one of the best in the NFL. If Casserly stays around here, I don’t think Billick would have that luxury in working with the Texans. To me, the whole run the ball and play great defense seems very much like the Capers way of doing things.

Martz definitely has produced some pretty amazing offensive stats. My question is why the running game completely vanished when he took over the team. Dick Vermeil changed the Chief into the Rams and he actually kept the running part of the game plan. He has made Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson into premier runners. I think that the downfall of both Vermeil and his protégé Martz are their failure to place much importance on defense. Martz did make it to the Super Bowl, but he also is widely blamed for losing it as well. Most critics point to his pass at all costs philosophy and poor clock management for the loss. This inability to make adjustments and to try and impose your will on the opponent reminds me too much of Capers. Finally, Martz does not put much emphasis on protecting the quarterback and that would appear to be a priority in regards to one David Carr.

Grid
12-01-2005, 06:25 PM
I dont think i gotta say much.. my points about Billick and Martz has already been proved by a couple other posts here.

I just want to repeat that we would be better off NOT hiring a coach that just got fired because he is incapable of winning or creating anything resembling an offense(Billick).. or someone who has the same stubbornness about playing "his way", no matter how bad an idea it might be, that Cappers suffers from (Martz).


And btw.. anyone who argues that the Ravens won the superbowl because of their offensive genius needs to wake up. They were one of the best defenses in the last couple decades.. and that is the only reason they won.

run-david-run
12-01-2005, 08:02 PM
Billick and Martz have each coached a Super Bowl Champ. Capers has never coached in a Super Bowl.
Billick inherited one of the top 5 greatest defenses of all time, Martz inherited the "Greatest show on turf", I could have coached them to a Super Bowl.

run-david-run
12-01-2005, 08:07 PM
Preach on Brother:texflag:
You just told yourseld to "preach on!"

i have never seen a post on your part that does not bash Carr or DD, big surprise, the streak continues!!!

Napa Auto Parts
12-01-2005, 09:53 PM
You just told yourseld to "preach on!"

i have never seen a post on your part that does not bash Carr or DD, big surprise, the streak continues!!!



Not Bash carr as a person just what he has done in the league. get it straight son im sorry youre satisfied with mediocracy:texflag:

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2005, 10:47 PM
Billick inherited one of the top 5 greatest defenses of all time, Martz inherited the "Greatest show on turf", I could have coached them to a Super Bowl.

Whoa, hold on a second professor. That would be like saying the current Texans had one of the greatest defenses after we win the Super Bowl next year.

The Ravens were 16-31-1. It is a good thing Billick inherited that great defense, because he certainly had no bearing on taking a lackluster unit under Marvin Lewis' guidance to the Super Bowl.

As far as Martz and his inheritance he took an offense for a team that had not experienced a winning season in ten years. The year before their Super Bowl run they were 4-12.

OK enough of the message board please go back to making a radio out of coconuts, Ginger's brassiere wire and Mr. Howell's pipe.

CajunTexan
12-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Not Bash carr as a person just what he has done in the league. get it straight son im sorry youre satisfied with mediocracy:texflag:

The point is you took a thread about our coaching staff and there future and posted a, shall we say, "Anti-Carr" take.

ATX_Texan
12-01-2005, 11:38 PM
The question about Billick still remains about why he is considered an offensive genius. It has been sited that during his stint Jamal Lewis had the most rushing yards ever for a running back. Does that mean that the offensive coordinator for the Bears with Walter Payton or the coordinator for Barry Sanders’ Lions was just as great? Mike Ditka won a Super Bowl using a dominating defense and a great running back. Does that make him an offensive genius? As far as winning a Super Bowl, is Barry Switzer considered an all time great as well because he has a ring? As the Raven defense has degraded over the years, I would hope that the genius of Billick would be able to offset it with an improved offense. However, this development has not happened.

My point about Marvin Lewis is that he has created three top-rated defenses: Ravens, Redskins, and Bengals. The fact that he was able to do this on several different teams says something about his abilities. For that reason, I consider Lewis a much better coach than Billick.

As for Martz against Vermeil, I would again offer that Dick was able to recreate the Rams offense in KC along with the great running game. I feel a great offensive mind would be able to incorporate both running and passing. Most of the greats are also able to game plan to take advantage of a defense. However, Martz has demonstrated a history of forcing the pass regardless of the results. In fact, Martz one visit to the Super Bowl (which was basically Vermeil’s team from the previous year) was lost due to his refusal to make use of Marshall Faulk. Since that faithful day, there are been plenty of questionable calls that have cost the Rams a number of games. So, I have to pick Vermeil in this comparison. Finally,
loads of passing yards does not necessarily make a great offense or translate into wins. Otherwise, Kevin Gilbride would also be considered an offensive genius from his Oiler days.

My problem with Billick, Martz, and Casserly is that they all come across as arrogant jerks. They love to talk down to others and prop themselves as these great innovators. For some reason the press parrots these ideas. Yet, most of their success was in a single situation for only a short period of time. Based on their history, I doubt either Martz or Billick would do any better than Capers. I hope that Billick stays in Baltimore and Martz heads out to Oakland.

Napa Auto Parts
12-02-2005, 12:46 AM
The point is you took a thread about our coaching staff and there future and posted a, shall we say, "Anti-Carr" take.



Actually in my Original thread i Never mentioned carr if that makes you feel better i only mentioned Kyle Boller.

And i also said something to the effect that none of this Coaches could have succes here in houston. so i wasnt being anti Carr

Tejaspro
12-02-2005, 02:19 AM
Great post. I agree with your reasoning. And Ron Wolf would be a great choice. Let's hope Bob McNair reads it too.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2005, 08:40 AM
The question about Billick still remains about why he is considered an offensive genius. It has been sited that during his stint Jamal Lewis had the most rushing yards ever for a running back. Does that mean that the offensive coordinator for the Bears with Walter Payton or the coordinator for Barry Sanders’ Lions was just as great? Mike Ditka won a Super Bowl using a dominating defense and a great running back. Does that make him an offensive genius? As far as winning a Super Bowl, is Barry Switzer considered an all time great as well because he has a ring? As the Raven defense has degraded over the years, I would hope that the genius of Billick would be able to offset it with an improved offense. However, this development has not happened.

My point about Marvin Lewis is that he has created three top-rated defenses: Ravens, Redskins, and Bengals. The fact that he was able to do this on several different teams says something about his abilities. For that reason, I consider Lewis a much better coach than Billick.

As for Martz against Vermeil, I would again offer that Dick was able to recreate the Rams offense in KC along with the great running game. I feel a great offensive mind would be able to incorporate both running and passing. Most of the greats are also able to game plan to take advantage of a defense. However, Martz has demonstrated a history of forcing the pass regardless of the results. In fact, Martz one visit to the Super Bowl (which was basically Vermeil’s team from the previous year) was lost due to his refusal to make use of Marshall Faulk. Since that faithful day, there are been plenty of questionable calls that have cost the Rams a number of games. So, I have to pick Vermeil in this comparison. Finally,
loads of passing yards does not necessarily make a great offense or translate into wins. Otherwise, Kevin Gilbride would also be considered an offensive genius from his Oiler days.

My problem with Billick, Martz, and Casserly is that they all come across as arrogant jerks. They love to talk down to others and prop themselves as these great innovators. For some reason the press parrots these ideas. Yet, most of their success was in a single situation for only a short period of time. Based on their history, I doubt either Martz or Billick would do any better than Capers. I hope that Billick stays in Baltimore and Martz heads out to Oakland.

Can you please qualify the statment that Marvin Lewis has created three top rated defenses.

None of those teams (Ravens, Redskins, Bengals) were the top defense in yards allowed, points allowed or passing defense under Marvin Lewis' watch. The Ravens were tops in rushing defense in 1999, 2000, which coincided with Billick arriving (1999). The Redksins had one of the best defenses in 2000 which was pre-Lewis (2002).

You feel like tearing down Billick's offensive genius (as I stated before I don't get riled up in what pundits percieve), however, you trumpet Lewis as he is a defensive genius. Pot please meet kettle. Kettle this is pot.

Texas_Thrill
12-02-2005, 09:39 AM
This is not about judging capers the person its about judging capers the head coach and from that regard I feel no sympathy.

This is his 2nd head coaching job. He obviously is too defensive minded for his own good. He plays defense on defense and plays defense on offense.

I wasn't happy when we got him as head coach the first time so I"m certainly not sad about him leaving. All that said why on earth would we go and get a billick or martz? Has billick developed ONE qb he's had since he's been in b-more?

And Martz. To say he his ridiculous. I"d just be sitting around waiting for him to get fired next. He does'nt know what BALANCE is to save his life.

I'd like to see Kubiak or even the coach from UCLA Dorrell I believe it is. I want someone new and fresh. Not a recyclable.