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View Full Version : Not smart to fire coach during season


Hookem Horns
11-29-2005, 12:47 AM
That according to Sean Salisbury. He just made the point about the Lions stating that they should have waited til the end of the season. He said it makes no sense because they are just going to be in the ackward situation of releasing their interim guy after the season.

That same point is being made here by some of the smarter fans in reference to the Texans.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927
11-29-2005, 05:06 AM
Yeah, it's much smarter to keep around a guy who would have refused to play his younger players and refused to adapt his gameplan to suit those players.

Ackward would be keeping a guy who everyone knows is a dead man walking.

Consider the source...

Corrosion
11-29-2005, 11:55 AM
Like Mariucci WAS ... Capers is coaching for his NEXT job . Not playing younger players and playing to win instead of for player development / draft position .

Niether of them has the luxury allowed Nick Saban this season . "The score doesnt matter , our record doesnt matter ..... These things wont affect how decisions are made around here , we are building for the future ." ..... Even if the NFL doesnt like how he said it .... He's absolutely correct .

Give me an interm coach a record of 1-15 and the number one pick please .

That leads to so many more options in player development not to mention probably the first pick come draft day . Think Draft Position had something to do with Maruicci being fired ? .... I do .

chuckm
11-29-2005, 11:58 AM
Yeah, it's much smarter to keep around a guy who would have refused to play his younger players and refused to adapt his gameplan to suit those players.

Ackward would be keeping a guy who everyone knows is a dead man walking.

Consider the source...


dude I absolutely LOVE your username ..... maybe I should've used more imagination with mine .... nah

Vinny
11-29-2005, 12:06 PM
I think a good case can be made for either choice. Frankly I think it's not good business to keep leadership around in a performance based industry when everyone knows he won't be here next year. I don't think it is especially helpful to have everyone in your organization running around with the little drummer boy smile painted on their faces. I understand why McNair isn’t making a move and it may be the best thing…donno.

What I do know is that if this was GMAC finance there would be no dead man walking leaders giving the buyers their marching orders. It’s hard to sell out for people you know won’t be around. You won’t take any risks and you don’t think that the little things you may do will be appreciated by the people who will be there down the road.

chuckm
11-29-2005, 12:12 PM
I want Capers gone as much as the next guy but I have to admit to a bit of sympathy (and almost embarrassment) for a class man that's obviously on the way out. The change in his demeanor and the tone of his answers on his radio show are showing, at least to me

Hookem Horns
11-29-2005, 01:22 PM
I want Capers gone as much as the next guy but I have to admit to a bit of sympathy (and almost embarrassment) for a class man that's obviously on the way out. The change in his demeanor and the tone of his answers on his radio show are showing, at least to me

Wow Chuck, you have some pretty intelligent post for such a young little man.

OzzO
11-29-2005, 02:09 PM
Maybe I'm overlooking something, but then it's smart to keep Millen around?

..."We started off this season with high expectations," team president Matt Millen said. "We have underachieved as a football team."

Millen hired both Mariucci and his predecessor, Marty Mornhinweg, and drafted or signed most of the current players. Since Millen took over in 2001, Detroit is an NFL-worst 20-55.

Despite the results, the former NFL linebacker and TV analyst was given a five-year extension before this season.

Millen said he accepts accountability for Detroit's record during his four-plus seasons, but said a coaching change was necessary. "This is a brutal business and at times, good people suffer a cruel fate," he said.

Millen also fired offensive line coach Pat Morris and tight ends coach Andy Sugarman, and demoted Ted Tollner from offensive coordinator to tight ends coach....

Chronic 11-29-05 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3489759.html)

... and for being 15-28 in two plus years vs. a 13-30 coach in the same recent time frame with a year and some change head start on Mooch....

For one playoff victory since 1957... wow, Lion fans - y'all are a rare breed to stick with them.

HardKnockTexan
11-29-2005, 02:12 PM
Millen is horrible and should of been fired before or at the same time as the Lions headcoach. The Lions are run by the Ford family and they have a track record for hiring and sticking with loosers. If they're doing something a certain way I say we go in the opposite direction.

bckey
11-29-2005, 02:59 PM
I think a good case can be made for either choice. Frankly I think it's not good business to keep leadership around in a performance based industry when everyone knows he won't be here next year. I don't think it is especially helpful to have everyone in your organization running around with the little drummer boy smile painted on their faces. I understand why McNair isn’t making a move and it may be the best thing…donno.

What I do know is that if this was GMAC finance there would be no dead man walking leaders giving the buyers their marching orders. It’s hard to sell out for people you know won’t be around. You won’t take any risks and you don’t think that the little things you may do will be appreciated by the people who will be there down the road.

Good post Vinny. The majority of the fans on this bb have nooses out ready to hang anyone that says Capers should be fired now instead of at the end of the season. They twist and exagerate what is said to make their case sound better. We all know he is gone we just disagree on when the best time to fire him is.

Corrosion
11-29-2005, 05:32 PM
We all know he is gone we just disagree on when the best time to fire him is.


The best time was around the time they went 1-4 and looked pathetic while doing so . Should have been Capers instead of Palm......errrrrr Along with Palmer:texflag:

Marcus
11-29-2005, 06:24 PM
I hereby nominate Matt Millen as the official 2006 class(less) clown. Doing and saying what he did yesterday, in such a monumentally disrespectful way, completely exonerates what Dre Bly said.

Dre Bly threw Joey Harrington under the bus (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051129/SPORTS01/511290393/1120/RSS), and that is exactly what Matt Millen deserved.

Firing a head coach during the middle of the season is the pinnacle of disrespect. It's nothing more than letting your frustrations as a fan overrule your responsibility in managing the team.

And to think that some of you want the Texans to be like Detroit? :thumbdown :thumbdown

touttail
11-29-2005, 06:25 PM
Yeah, it's much smarter to keep around a guy who would have refused to play his younger players and refused to adapt his gameplan to suit those players.

Ackward would be keeping a guy who everyone knows is a dead man walking.

Consider the source...

I totally agree with you!
My gawd, we are 1-10. What if they got rid of Capers:homer: now, would we not make the playoffs or possibly go 2-10?? What difference would it make now or end of the year. He's out and he knows it, the team knows it! At least maybe the interium coach would try something different, play some other players that have desire!


bobby 119C:brickwall

Marcus
11-29-2005, 06:33 PM
You want to fire Capers right now? Waive David Carr along with it, and make it a package deal, and I'm on board with it?

Deal?

Double Barrel
11-29-2005, 11:23 PM
I can see both sides, but after having an owner like Bud Adams that would not hesitate to fire a coaching staff during the season (and even hire coaches that his HC might not agree with *cough*BuddyRyan*cough*)...I don't mind having a patient, quiet owner that is the epitome of class. Mr. McNair is a business man, first and foremost, and he is a successful billionaire because he thinks about his decisions and acts accordingly.

If his decision is to wait until the end of the season to let Coach Capers go, so be it. I wholeheartedly support him. :ok:

Snapple
11-29-2005, 11:41 PM
Matt Millen is probably a lot more to do with his team's failure than Mariucci is. Pretty much every person they've taken in the first round since he took over has been a flop. Their o-line stinks (although not nearly as bad as ours, obviously), they have no offensive identity, and they reak of mediocrity. Mooch deserves some of the blame for being soft, but Millen is terrible.

As for letting a coach go in the middle of the season, at this point I'm all for it. How can an interim coach possibly be worse than what we have now? Just look at how the Dolphins did last year. AFTER they dealt Wannstedt away, they won half of their remaining games, including against the eventual world champion Patriots. So getting rid of the head coach doesn't mean the team is going to be worse, necessarily.

Besides, I'd rather get this monkey off our back. I'd like to see some good news in the middle of the season. And although you'd hate to call someone losing their job good news, in this case... well, it is. I just want to get it over with. The longer this firing process is drawn out, the longer we have to suffer seeing Dom Capers' ugly face represent our team. The sooner he's fired, the sooner we can look toward the future, and the sooner we can let all the potential future coaches that there's a job opening in 2006.

barzilla
11-30-2005, 12:13 AM
I agree that Matt Millen is the responsible party, but I'm still trying to figure out how having a player insult the quarterback throws Millen under the bus. Jeff Garcia did a good job of doing that though. Hey, we all know that 1-10 is a horrible situation. Yes, Capers is dead man walking, but I'm thinking we don't gain much by throwing him overboard now. I say give him and Casserly four full seasons and be done with them on January 2nd.

Jerry
11-30-2005, 12:14 AM
Maybe we should dump Capers now, let Fangio take a crack for a few games (can't be any worse), and if he isn't very good (which I'm assuming he won't be), we can dump him during the offseason and get a new HC and DC (and maybe an OC if our new HC isn't a fan of Pendry). Just throwing something out there, since I have no idea if Fangio could even do the duties of a HC, much less, adequately.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927
11-30-2005, 12:30 AM
I hereby nominate Matt Millen as the official 2006 class(less) clown. Doing and saying what he did yesterday, in such a monumentally disrespectful way, completely exonerates what Dre Bly said.

Dre Bly threw Joey Harrington under the bus (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051129/SPORTS01/511290393/1120/RSS), and that is exactly what Matt Millen deserved.

Firing a head coach during the middle of the season is the pinnacle of disrespect. It's nothing more than letting your frustrations as a fan overrule your responsibility in managing the team.

And to think that some of you want the Texans to be like Detroit? :thumbdown :thumbdown


Doesn't that say more about Dre Bly than Matt Millen? How is what Bly said any different than what TO said about Favre/McNabb?


BTW, Harrington has had multiple opportunities to toss several players and coaches under the bus and has refused to do so, ever.


Mooch isn't a good coach for Detroit. The SF fans tried to tell us but we all in Detroit and the media believed the hype about Mooch. Also, many media pundits will have Mooch's back because they like him and he is a great guy; just a way overpaid and overrated coach.

And how is it a good thing if Mooch had stayed until the end of the year?

Why is it wrong to fire a guy for underperforming? Why wait until the end of the year? Respect? Please...

aj.
11-30-2005, 01:10 AM
Frankly I think it's not good business to keep leadership around in a performance based industry when everyone knows he won't be here next year. .

Which is exactly the reason you don't fire Capers now and put in a caretaker/psuedo-leader like Pendry or anyone else on this staff to act as head coach for five weeks only to be released themselves on Jan 3. Does that really send a message? Even if there were questions on effort - which I don't think there are, for the most part - why would players respond to dead man squared any more than dead man the first?

As I said before, if there was a legit successor on this coaching staff - like we had with Jeff Fisher in '94 when he replaced Pardee after Week 10 - then it would make sense to make an in-season move.

Hopefully, players realize that they will be evaluated by the new staff based on what they see on game film and if they choose to dog it over the final stretch, they are only hurting themselves. I still see pretty good effort from most Texans players. The reports I heard from the locker room Sunday afternoon told me that the vast majority still care for one reason or another.

Tejaspro
11-30-2005, 02:14 AM
Why would you fire Capers before the end of the season? That's just emotional. And turn the team over to who? One of his coaches? Fangio? He can't coach the defense, let alone the whole team. I don't see a coach in the wings that's going to make the slightest difference. We, my friend, are stuck with this team until the off season.

I agree that we should be playing the younger players, give them some experience, and evaluate who might be on the team next season. Unfortunately, we have to assume that Capers will do anything he can to win the remaining games. In his mind, and in ours if we were in his shoes, he is going to play what ever players he believes gives him the best chance to win the ball game. If for no other reason than the faint hope that a miracle will happen and he might salvage his job, and his reputation. How many of us out here would be doing or feeling any different.

Only McNair stepping in and requesting the Capers plays certain players is it going to happen. And, McNair isn't going to interfere with his coach. Right up until the day he fires him. He will treat Capers with the respect that he deserves. I feel bad for Capers, but it's a tough business. He is doing his best, but it isn't getting the job done.

Hire Ron Wolf if possible, and start with a fresh energy next season. Ron Wolf will find a great head coach.:texflag:

Texas_Thrill
11-30-2005, 02:35 PM
Some of this is just the culture of the NFL. The NHL and NBA even MLB all fire their coaches on a whim especially the NHL. You can be winning in their league and get fired.

I don't mind holding out b/c this way you aren't asking the players to adjust to a new culture of coaches. Let the off-season come wipe the slate clean and start fresh. Its not like you are going to salvage the season at this point.

ATX_Texan
11-30-2005, 03:38 PM
There have been countless threads in which various people time and time again have presented reasons and suggestions to the alternative of keeping Capers the lame duck around until the end of year. However, you will always have a certain faction come back with the same tired “you cannot fire a coach during the season” no matter what.

From what I have been able to gather, the reasons include:
1.) Only “classless” organizations fire a coach during the year. However, there are many examples of teams that made this move and these teams were not boycotted by any of the potential coaches in the off season. It is somehow more “classy” to publicly support the coach, but privately look for his replacement while the season is going on.
2.) You don’t make snap judgments based solely on the poor performance of this year. The problems on this team did not suddenly happen just this season. What we seeing is a slow degradation that actually started in the middle of LAST season. Beside the fluke victory against the Jags late last season, it could be seen that things under Capers were unwinding. The fact that the team was horrible in the preseason and most of this year shows how little the players buy into the Capers philosophy anymore.
3.) Things will descend into chaos if the steady hand of Capers is removed. This team has been down right awful in at least eight of the eleven games they have played. They are completely undisciplined prone to numerous penalties and mental errors. The execution that Capers preaches is no where to be found. We see players arguing with each other on the bench. Yet, we are supposed to fear that things would somehow become really out of control if the coach is fired.
4.) No care taker/interim coach is worthy of coaching this team and it will do nothing to help. Whenever any of the assistant coaches are mentioned as a care taker, it is immediately attacked because these guys are the ones screwing up the team. At the same time, it is also declared that Capers is really the one holding them back by imposing his overall team philosophy. One way to find really find out who is to blame is to remove Capers and allow them to show what they can do on their own. Most people would welcome the opportunity for a promotion no matter how short lived it may be.
5.) It is unfair to the players and nothing will be learned. The players have evidently tuned out this regime by their lackluster play all year. We also are guaranteed to get no meaningful player evaluation to find out how bare the cupboard really is because Dom is going to ride the same players with the same stale game plan until last possible second.
6.) It would ruin the season for the “true” fans. After Palmer was finally fired, there was a flood of anger directed at anyone on this board whoever criticized the old OC. It was even suggested that somehow the people here were directly responsible for this firing and that this event destroyed the Texans’ season. Their proof was that the Texans did not immediately improve. So, they also fear even more damage by firing Capers and any of his cronies. The truth was that the firing proved the problem was not Palmer at all. The Pendry offense looked much like the Palmer version, only more conservative, predictable, and more easy to defend.

Double Barrel
11-30-2005, 04:01 PM
It was even suggested that somehow the people here were directly responsible for this firing and that this event destroyed the Texans’ season.

Well, it's finally time to admit it...but it was me. Yes, Bob McNair reads all my posts, and made his decision after reading my thoughts on the matter. I'm sorry I destroyed our entire season. :cool:

Nice post, though, and a good summary of the various perspectives around here. It's a good thing Mr. McNair does not read the forums, because he'd be as confused as a baby in a topless bar about now. :rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
11-30-2005, 04:04 PM
Well, it's finally time to admit it...but it was me. Yes, Bob McNair reads all my posts, and made his decision after reading my thoughts on the matter. I'm sorry I destroyed our entire season. :cool:

Nice post, though, and a good summary of the various perspectives around here. It's a good thing Mr. McNair does not read the forums, because he'd be as confused as a baby in a topless bar about now. :rolleyes:

Way to go DB. I had a feeling you were pulling the levers and pushing the buttons behind the curtain. :)

barzilla
11-30-2005, 08:53 PM
Let's try this one on for size. If we fire Capers we could possibly get better. Thus, we could win enough games to get out of the first pick. Boy would that be a nightmare. :drool:

edo783
11-30-2005, 11:28 PM
Let's try this one on for size. If we fire Capers we could possibly get better. Thus, we could win enough games to get out of the first pick. Boy would that be a nightmare. :drool:

One of the solid points of Capers is he is consistant and currently that is in the lose collum, so keeping him is currently in our best long term interest. He's toast in Jan, so who cares if we toast him earlier or not.

HoustonFan
11-30-2005, 11:45 PM
I would hope that he can coach a few more wins before leaving. #1 pick is great and all, but damn let's not be the sorriest team that has it on lock. And if he was looking for another job - as a defensive corrdinator maybe - that he would go out w/ some pride.