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Nighthawk
11-28-2005, 08:48 PM
Time to say what has become obvious--McNair is as bad as Capers and Casserly.

They are birds of a feather. It long since past the point at which it would have been appropriate and timely to let Capers and Casserly go, and McNair hasn't lifted a finger. Maybe he's afraid he'll appear classless, but more likely he's just a slow mover accustomed to the pace of gentility.

If that's so, it may mean he won't even fire Capers or Casserly after the season. McNair clearly does not understand the damage that is being done to his franchise week after week. Sure, the people will come back, but they won't be happy about it. It's unfortunate after all the good will heaped on McNair and the franchise at the startup.

The Lions had a situation half as dire as ours and a coach twice as famous, and they still let him go after a disappointing performance as head coach. THere's no one who can say Dom Capers has been anything but a serious disappoint as HC of the Texans. And Casserly has done an amateur's job as GM.

If McNair is not quick-witted enough to recognize this and act on it, then I think he's got exactly the team he deserves.

Wolf
11-28-2005, 08:55 PM
who are you going to bring into coach right now that is available Bud Grant? Bum Phillips? chuck noll? chuck knox??

the coaches that we will target will not be accessible until after their teams respectful season

Kaiser Toro
11-28-2005, 08:55 PM
I cannot find any level at which I can agree with you here.

HJam72
11-28-2005, 08:57 PM
If we replace the coaches now, we might start winning and lose our spot in the draft. :)

HomeBred_Texan
11-28-2005, 09:01 PM
If this is not someone fishing for an argument, then I don't know what is. We are in our 4th year. We have had 3 very enjoyable years here. So what we are having our 1st terrible season...... I wouldnt fire my head coach during the middle of the season either. We cannot legally talk to our future head coach until there season is over unless you want someone out of retirement, which I dont.

So please go fish in another pond. This one is empty.......

aj.
11-28-2005, 09:05 PM
If people are not quick witted enough to realize that changes now - given the lack of qualified successors in house - will have negligible effect over changes six weeks from now, then they'll never get it either.

As far as Detroit's situation, Millen is as culpable as Mooch and he's still there. And they are smarter than us?

Nighthawk
11-28-2005, 09:06 PM
who are you going to bring into coach right now that is available Bud Grant? Bum Phillips? chuck noll? chuck knox??

the coaches that we will target will not be accessible until after their teams respectful season

Don't be dumb. YOu're going to put in a caretaker. The key is to get Dom and Casserly outta here and get somebody in who will play our other players and let them have a chance to see what they can do? What's the use of playing Carr now? We know he's gunshy, streaky, has a big arm, is none too accurate even in the best of times. What are you gonna learn playing him? Nothing. So you play Banks, you play Ragone, get 'em some film time, get 'em some game time. Same for all the other positions at which we've got questions--

For heaven's sake, use your imagination a little.

Nighthawk
11-28-2005, 09:09 PM
If people are not quick witted enough to realize that changes now - given the lack of qualified successors in house - will have negligible effect over changes six weeks from now, then they'll never get it either.

As far as Detroit's situation, Millen is as culpable as Mooch and he's still there. And they are smarter than us?

See my note above and enjoy five more weeks of the crap they've been dishing out all year. The reason you change NOW is so you get a jump on the future. You DON'T try to replace the coach, you hire a caretaker.

Try using the noggin.

Wolf
11-28-2005, 09:13 PM
Don't be dumb. YOu're going to put in a caretaker. The key is to get Dom and Casserly outta here and get somebody in who will play our other players and let them have a chance to see what they can do? What's the use of playing Carr now? We know he's gunshy, streaky, has a big arm, is none too accurate even in the best of times. What are you gonna learn playing him? Nothing. So you play Banks, you play Ragone, get 'em some film time, get 'em some game time. Same for all the other positions at which we've got questions--



For heaven's sake, use your imagination a little.


it is easy to bash..but give some examples of who could come in and coach?

eriadoc
11-28-2005, 09:33 PM
Capers has earned this season and I want the balance of it on his record.

But yes, McNair is clearly an ***** for not listening to our more intelligent fans and firing Capers every Monday since about week 3. How the heck DID he get to be a millionaire anyway? Sheesh .....

:brickwall

aj.
11-28-2005, 09:35 PM
Try using the noggin.

I was thinking the same when I read the first post in this thread.

profan
11-28-2005, 09:37 PM
Time to say what has become obvious--McNair is as bad as Capers and Casserly.

The Lions had a situation half as dire as ours and a coach twice as famous, and they still let him go after a disappointing performance as head coach. THere's no one who can say Dom Capers has been anything but a serious disappoint as HC of the Texans. And Casserly has done an amateur's job as GM.


Dude, please don't bring Detroit into this. Detroit has won one playoff game since 1957. Don't start looking to them as a model of what we should do.

I simply do not agree with you. If we had a good offensive or defensive coordinator, that could take over the team, and possibly become the next head coach, then, I would say fire capers yesterday! That worked well for out old NFL team when Fisher took over in season after Pardee was fired. But , we do not have anyone to take over at this point and it would be useless, to fire capers. I agree we need to start evaluating other players and this is being done at several positions. I would like to see Ragone get some playing time, really don't care about banks as we know what he can do.

thegr8fan
11-28-2005, 10:00 PM
If we had a good offensive or defensive coordinator, that could take over the team, and possibly become the next head coach, then, I would say fire capers yesterday! you mean like Chris Palmer? :tomato:

McNair already listened to the current MB Guru's and look what that got us. A 'written in concrete' Capers as HC till the end of the season due to no other qualified candidate being available on the current Texans staff. Unless of course Capers was smarter than we MB Guru's realized and figured out he better get rid of the only competition on his staff for his job, AND satisfy the current fans with some really really really quality ACTION at the same time. That is a win-win for Capers and a lose-lose for the fans and Texans.

McNair already did the 'fan plan' way and put himself in the 'no option' plan for doing so. Now you gotta wonder how smart he would be to try the 'fan plan' twice in one season.

Get real.

beerlover
11-28-2005, 10:11 PM
McNair is a stud and someday things will be better, it would be unprofessional for him to make a comment other than what he has already addressed. changes are in the works of that you can be sure its only smart buisness to keep your cards close to your vest instead of showing your hand :cool:

Texans_Chick
11-28-2005, 10:19 PM
This is the worst part of a loss:

The ridiculous commentary and posts. Of all sorts. Not just this thread. On the radio. On message boards. Etc to repulsion. It almost makes me want to flee to France to be away from the American football, smokes the cigarettes, drink the wines, eat the many rich foods, feign the indifference and go unwashed.

There are enough legitimate concerns about the Texans without making up making bizarro world comments. (I used the bolding thing because otherwise I am tempted to make a banner that says this and fly it over the city. It would be too long a sign and it would crash the plane).

I just don't know what goes through people's noggins--"Hmmmm, everybody basically agrees that X, Y and Z are issues, but maybe, just maybe N (the crazy thing I pulled out of my behind*) is THE answer. Lemme start a new thread and everyone will realize I am right and will recognize my supergenius football mind."

Or maybe that is just a subconscious process. :)





*Otherwise abbreviated as TCTIPOOMB.





BTW, I really really really love finding the thoughtful, well-reasoned, non-over generalized comments amongst the silliness. You people know who you are. :texflag:

Hookem Horns
11-28-2005, 10:31 PM
McNair has already verbally hired Jimmy Johnson. He is just not going to make anything public until after the season. JJ is already eyeing the draft and is making plans for the Texans. Why do you think JJ was getting so anxious when the Texans were up at halftime? He thought he was losing his #1 pick. So don't worry, the next staff is already in the works.

Capers and Casserly are just going to ride the ship all the way down to the ocean floor.

Kaiser Toro
11-28-2005, 10:40 PM
McNair has already verbally hired Jimmy Johnson. He is just not going to make anything public until after the season. JJ is already eyeing the draft and is making plans for the Texans. Why do you think JJ was getting so anxious when the Texans were up at halftime? He thought he was losing his #1 pick. So don't worry, the next staff is already in the works.

Capers and Casserly are just going to ride the ship all the way down to the ocean floor.

Good to hear, did you find this story on a napkin or near a urinal? :)

Speedy
11-28-2005, 10:42 PM
You dump them NOW!!!! That gives you 10 weeks to find replacements and get down to hiring them right after the SuperBowl so they have plenty of time to evaluate this team and prepare for the draft.

Hookem Horns
11-28-2005, 10:43 PM
Good to hear, did you find this story on a napkin or near a urinal? :)

Actually Elklund was reporting that.

Kaiser Toro
11-28-2005, 10:46 PM
Actually Elklund was reporting that.

Is that a Houston talk show guy?

Hookem Horns
11-28-2005, 10:54 PM
Is that a Houston talk show guy?

No, I was just fishing around to see if any hockey fans are here. Eklund is a "hockey rumors" guy that has been proven over and over again to be a fraud. During the lockout he had "inside info" that the lockout was over like 10 times in a 6 month period before it actually happened. Somehow he got the national media believing his garbage, so much so that ESPN was actually reporting his BS like it was fact. Remember when ESPN announced that the lockout was over and the season was saved, only to come about 3 hours later and recant the story? OK, probably not, I know most of you don't follow or understand hockey. However, Eklund made them all look like fools.

While I was joking about the JJ thing. I would not be the least bit shocked if I was not far off with my unfounded "rumor". Something was uncanny about JJ and the way he was talking about the Texans and coaching yesterday.

Marcus
11-28-2005, 10:59 PM
Football fans of a losing football team tend to lose their minds. The frustration level reaches a point where they think if the coaching staff is fired, it will make them feel better . . . and that's ALL they care about.

Just make a stupid, knee-jerk, unintelligent move just to make me feel better. **** what it does to the team.

:wacko:

ojthecat
11-28-2005, 11:15 PM
Look I am p.o.ed as much as the next fan and I would love for Capers and Co. to get fired. I would love for a message to be sent however their is a real possiblity that McNair is a very smart man. Could he have already worked out a deal with another "mystery" coach? If he has he can't talk about it. He will have to go through the game of "interviewing" minority candidates and then make his big press announcent. Even the new coach would not want to replace the current coach with some interum coach (what if they did a miricle job?). Maybe the "mystery" coach has a current job and couldn't leave till after the season.

If Mr. McNair has such a plan I hope he keeps Capers as long as the "mystery" coach want.

Grid
11-28-2005, 11:23 PM
you can have stupid, kneejerk reactions all day long for all i care.. but dogging on McNair is unexcusable.

Hes a great guy with a big heart and has done more for this city than all of us put together. Anyone who complains about McNair is too blind or too stupid to see how lucky we are to have him as an owner.

blinded by gentility? gtfo.

EDIT*

Correction.. that was "a slow mover because of the slow pace of gentility".. and you can still gtfo.

CajunTexan
11-28-2005, 11:39 PM
Good to hear, did you find this story on a napkin or near a urinal? :)

Kaiser...you are fast becoming one of the more enjoyable reads on this board.

feebleminded
11-28-2005, 11:39 PM
See my note above and enjoy five more weeks of the crap they've been dishing out all year. The reason you change NOW is so you get a jump on the future. You DON'T try to replace the coach, you hire a caretaker.

Try using the noggin.

Not trying to feed quarters into the machine, but how exactly does a caretaker coach give a team a jump on the future?

As an aside, after living in Dallas in 92 and listening to all of the junk up there during a 1-15 season, amazingly all was forgiven and forgotten once that team got to winning.

CajunTexan
11-28-2005, 11:44 PM
Capers has earned this season and I want the balance of it on his record.

But yes, McNair is clearly an ***** for not listening to our more intelligent fans and firing Capers every Monday since about week 3. How the heck DID he get to be a millionaire anyway? Sheesh .....

:brickwall

WOW...now that is a real "oxi-moron" if I ever read one. "More intelligent fans."

So you are suggesting Mr. McNair should have fired Capers at week three based on the opinions on this board?!!! WHACK. dude very WHACK!

HoustonFan
11-28-2005, 11:55 PM
Patience is a virtue. Just keep thinking positive thoughts. 1/2/06 is a day all of us are waiting for. For now, let's hope the team can go in these last 5 games w/ some heart. Damn playing for the #1 draft. I say play everyone on the roster to see who and what else we've got. and go from there.

thegr8fan
11-28-2005, 11:57 PM
uh, Cajun, I am pretty sure eriadoc was being very sarcastic and like I do sometimes just forgot to add the sarcasm icon :sarcasm: at the end.

Course I could be completely wrong, but thats the way I read it.

CajunTexan
11-29-2005, 12:09 AM
uh, Cajun, I am pretty sure eriadoc was being very sarcastic and like I do sometimes just forgot to add the sarcasm icon :sarcasm: at the end.

Course I could be completely wrong, but thats the way I read it.

Man, I hope you are right, for his families sake!

MorKnolle
11-29-2005, 12:13 AM
How is firing our coach and bringing in a new coach that is completely unfamiliar with the system that our players have been learning for the last four years going to help anything? We will lose every remaining game and have even less indication of who can/can't play, and it's not like we can fire Capers and promote Fangio. Like someone said, Capers has earned his right to see the end of this year after building our team the last three years and it would be ridiculous and pointless to attempt to bring in a new coach, new system and everything with that for the last five games of this year.

HardKnockTexan
11-29-2005, 01:10 AM
While I was joking about the JJ thing. I would not be the least bit shocked if I was not far off with my unfounded "rumor". Something was uncanny about JJ and the way he was talking about the Texans and coaching yesterday.


I was thinking the same thing... hmmmmmm

aj.
11-29-2005, 07:58 AM
Hate on McNair all you want and keep beating this to death until you're blue in the face, but for the zillionth time, nothing is going to happen before the season ends. Further proof:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3489845.html

Marcus
11-29-2005, 08:51 AM
Hate on McNair all you want and keep beating this to death until you're blue in the face, but for the zillionth time, nothing is going to happen before the season ends. Further proof:

It doesn't matter to them aj. You had to know that if the pink soap crowd didn't get its wishes granted sooner rather than later, then its bash the owner. It's nothing but headless chickens flopping around searching for relief.

Malloy
11-29-2005, 08:51 AM
The ridiculous commentary and posts. Of all sorts. Not just this thread. On the radio. On message boards. Etc to repulsion. It almost makes me want to flee to France to be away from the American football, smokes the cigarettes, drink the wines, eat the many rich foods, feign the indifference and go unwashed.


Add to that the joy of not having to be confronted by obese people all the time :)

Malloy
11-29-2005, 08:54 AM
Good to hear, did you find this story on a napkin or near a urinal? :)

I think "the voices" told him. Nothing better than speculative statements based on commentaries from the spirit world :)

OzzO
11-29-2005, 09:42 AM
It doesn't matter to them aj. You had to know that if the pink soap crowd didn't get its wishes granted sooner rather than later, then its bash the owner. It's nothing but headless chickens flopping around searching for relief.

Not all "pink soapers" have fallen off their rocker. Personally, I can wait till the end of the season for Mr. McNair to let us know what has been planned. (... and I'd rather keep this owner than an Adams, Ford, Snyder... and quite a few others, actually most if not all others.)

eriadoc
11-29-2005, 10:18 AM
For the record, yes, I was being sarcastic. I normally try to avoid such responses, so I am a bit unaccustomed to making it come across on a message board, but as Texans Chick said, it seems some fans have lost their friggin' mind lately. Carry on :)

HJam72
11-29-2005, 11:18 AM
On that note, I say we run the Texans out of town and see if we can get the Oilers back. :wacko:

I don't blame McNair for anything so far. When he hired Casserly and Capers, I knew nothing about Casserly and I was sold on Capers. I was just as wrong as McNair was, but with a lot less info. I can't say I would've done anything differently up to this point, but I would certainly know that Capers is gone right now, whether he's physically gone or not.

chuckm
11-29-2005, 11:33 AM
Time to say what has become obvious--McNair is as bad as Capers and Casserly.


I have heard it all now ... but I'll still read this message board just in case ...

DRAMA
11-29-2005, 11:47 AM
Things could never be bad enough to have to look to France for exile despite the wine from the Southern region!

chuckm
11-29-2005, 11:56 AM
Things could never be bad enough to have to look to France for exile despite the wine from the Southern region!


this is a prime example of why I keep reading ..... thanks DRAMA, I think

OzzO
11-29-2005, 02:13 PM
So we can maybe put this "fire now" idea to bed, straight from McNair's mouth...

...."I'm on my way to hit some golf balls, and I'm going to make them suffer," said McNair, whose team is suffering through a 1-10 season. "I'm not going to drive off any cliffs. There aren't any around here, anyway. I know because I've been looking."

Although the Texans blew a 27-17 lead with 34 seconds left in the game, McNair still had his sense of humor.

And Capers still had his job.

McNair reiterated that there's an ongoing evaluation, and no changes will be made before the end of the season. Capers and general manager Charley Casserly and their staffs are being evaluated.

Going into consecutive road games against Baltimore and Tennessee, McNair made it clear that he's not going to do what Detroit did Monday. The Lions fired coach Steve Mariucci, who was 4-7 in his third season, and replaced him with defensive coordinator Dick Jauron on an interim basis.

"I don't see anything positive to come from a change during the season," McNair said. "We've got five games left, and we're going through an evaluation process that won't end until we've played 16 games. Sure, I'm angry about what's happened."....


chronic 11-29-05 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3489845.html)

So, maintain Texan fans... we'll see what's in store this offseason. Personally, I think he's handling this situation pretty well for first time out the gate with on his new business path.

Honoring Earl 34
11-29-2005, 02:30 PM
:texflag: I for one don't mind if Mcnair has the measure twice and cut once approach. I believe it creates more of a circus to fire a coach , promote an assistant , interview the interim coach for the coaching job , interview other coaches and hire a coach .

bckey
11-29-2005, 02:57 PM
It doesn't matter to them aj. You had to know that if the pink soap crowd didn't get its wishes granted sooner rather than later, then its bash the owner. It's nothing but headless chickens flopping around searching for relief.

Don't start exagerating to make yourself sound better than others. One person bashed the owner and you linked the whole fire Capers club to it. I like McNair and so do 99.9% of the rest of the fans.

eriadoc
11-29-2005, 02:59 PM
:texflag: I for one don't mind if Mcnair has the measure twice and cut once approach.

I like that analogy! I may repeat that from time to time :thumbup

Nighthawk
11-29-2005, 03:38 PM
Well I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone ragging on Mr. McNair for not firing Capers and Casserly. I must have lost my mind for a moment there--what was I thinking! Forgot Mr. McNair was the President & the Pope and Mahatma Ghandi and M.L. King all rolled into one! And sure, I admit that there are reasons for NOT firing Capers & Co. More continuity! It's quieter! It's more the way things are done in this highly refined world of pro football. And we don't want to be forthright anyway, we want to spend the next month pretending that Capers and Casserly and the rest are all real quality personnel who have our confidence -- heck, they might turn it around in the next month! Yeah! That's the ticket! We want to slap Capers on the back and encourage him to go out there and win one for . . . who, exactly? Never mind.

I've been persuaded by this thread that we'll be better served by waiting until season's end. We need to live through this next month of Sundays watch David Carr and the Hapless Ten go for it, "big time," as our vice president has been heard to say. Capers may well pull this out! It's a real possibility--a couple more wins, the team showing the fight it's shown the last few weeks, showing that they're eager to work for Dom, win for Dom, work out of Dom's extraordinarily complex schemes to fight to the last second, to not know quit! That's it! THAT'S why we shouldn't fire Dom, because, good things could come!

Hey! Look over there, in the sky! Look at that pig! It's flying!

Texans_Chick
11-29-2005, 04:03 PM
Well I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone ragging on Mr. McNair for not firing Capers and Casserly. I must have lost my mind for a moment there--what was I thinking! Forgot Mr. McNair was the President & the Pope and Mahatma Ghandi and M.L. King all rolled into one! And sure, I admit that there are reasons for NOT firing Capers & Co. More continuity! It's quieter! It's more the way things are done in this highly refined world of pro football. And we don't want to be forthright anyway, we want to spend the next month pretending that Capers and Casserly and the rest are all real quality personnel who have our confidence -- heck, they might turn it around in the next month! Yeah! That's the ticket! We want to slap Capers on the back and encourage him to go out there and win one for . . . who, exactly? Never mind.

I've been persuaded by this thread that we'll be better served by waiting until season's end. We need to live through this next month of Sundays watch David Carr and the Hapless Ten go for it, "big time," as our vice president has been heard to say. Capers may well pull this out! It's a real possibility--a couple more wins, the team showing the fight it's shown the last few weeks, showing that they're eager to work for Dom, win for Dom, work out of Dom's extraordinarily complex schemes to fight to the last second, to not know quit! That's it! THAT'S why we shouldn't fire Dom, because, good things could come!

Hey! Look over there, in the sky! Look at that pig! It's flying!


OK, obviously you didn't like the way people responded to your thread, but just a few points:

* There are ways of arguing that Dom should be released now without taking the additional leap of saying that BECAUSE Dom hasn't been canned yet, McNair is a bad owner. Reasonable minds can disagree about whether firing a coach midseason is a good idea. Some might think it doesn't help much, especially when there is not a good substitute in the wings. Some might think it "sends a message" or whatever the argument du jour is.

* You can't fire the owner. Given all the owners out there of different professional leagues, uh, I am guessing Bob McNair is prolly on the better end of that list.

* McNair has demonstrated that he is sensitive to the concerns of the fans. The Texans are a work in progress but he is always looking to improve things and listens to fan.

* I am not sure that anyone is arguing that Dom should stay because the players will play harder for him--so I am not sure where you are going on that rant. Straw meet man.

* As for comparing McNair to various famous men of history, well, you know, actually, he is a pretty big hero of mine personally. I think it is an absolute miracle that we got a team before LA did.

Ultimately, no matter what our views on the team, the important thing is that it is our team, and it is will eventually get better. Hopefully sooner versus later.

Double Barrel
11-29-2005, 04:57 PM
This is the worst part of a loss:

The ridiculous commentary and posts. Of all sorts. Not just this thread. On the radio. On message boards. Etc to repulsion. It almost makes me want to flee to France to be away from the American football, smokes the cigarettes, drink the wines, eat the many rich foods, feign the indifference and go unwashed.

There are enough legitimate concerns about the Texans without making up making bizarro world comments. (I used the bolding thing because otherwise I am tempted to make a banner that says this and fly it over the city. It would be too long a sign and it would crash the plane).

I just don't know what goes through people's noggins--"Hmmmm, everybody basically agrees that X, Y and Z are issues, but maybe, just maybe N (the crazy thing I pulled out of my behind*) is THE answer. Lemme start a new thread and everyone will realize I am right and will recognize my supergenius football mind."

Or maybe that is just a subconscious process. :)

*Otherwise abbreviated as TCTIPOOMB.

BTW, I really really really love finding the thoughtful, well-reasoned, non-over generalized comments amongst the silliness. You people know who you are. :texflag:

ROTFLMAO!!! :heh: If I had to pick the top 10 posts of all time in the forum, I think you'd easily have 4-5 of them just for the humor alone. Classic, Texans_Chick, and thanks for the smiles.

I was thinking last night, in that delusional sort of way (after Manning hit that 80 yard TD to start off the game), about how wonderful it must feel right now to be a Colts fan. I mean, what would the Colts forum have to talk about? Obviously you'd be a loon to gripe about anything, and it must be like free love and peaches and cream over there about right now. Makes me want to vomit, really.

And then on the other end of the spectrum, we have a 1-10 franchise that is sinking fast. There is everything to grump about, from the quarterback's hair length to the schemes to the players to the coaches to the roof...ah, yes, the roof policy...and even on the lunatic fringe now - the owner.

Well, I ain't gripin' about the owner. Not now, not ever. Dude doesn't play the game, doesn't have any say in what schemes are chosen, or what players are picked. The guy is a fan, The Fan really, and the money man, and he hires people to run the show. He's like the anti-Jerry, and thank goodness for that. Who the heck wants that stretch-smile prima donna roaming the sidelines?

And anyway, Mr. McNair pulled the impossible rabbit out of the proverbial hat: pro football in H-town. No matter how you slice and dice it, if it wasn't for ol' Bob, we would be talking about everyone else's teams on everyone else's forums. And we'd be saying things like: man, how can you gripe about a 1-10 team?! At least you HAVE a team!!

So, with that, I urge patience from ourselves, and we shall overcome...eventually. Hardcore is not for the weak of heart or the faint of will. Success will come our way at some point in the future, and it will make these days seem like a distant memory and it'll be that much sweeter for those of us that were on the wagon the whole time. :ok:

touttail
11-29-2005, 06:35 PM
I cannot find any level at which I can agree with you here.

I too can't agree with this post. McNair is a man of honor and class. He is just not going to bring more turmoil to his team than it has now by firing Capers:homer:. He has race horses and doesn't take them out and shoot them if they don't win right off the bat. He is giving Dom :homer: every chance in the world. He is not going to jump through our hoops and make rash decisions. I do feel he needs to make a move now, but it's his team.


bobby 119C:brickwall

touttail
11-30-2005, 07:50 AM
Add to that the joy of not having to be confronted by obese people all the time :)


What's up with this??????? My friend, not everyone in this world is skinny, so you better get used to it! You have to get along with all people, not just the ones you want to select!

bobby 119C:brickwall

aj.
11-30-2005, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
I for one don't mind if Mcnair has the measure twice and cut once approach. I like that analogy! I may repeat that from time to time :thumbup

As oppposed to others in the org who seem to measure with a mike, mark it with chalk, and cut it with an axe?









Note: mike = industry term for micrometer, a precision measuring device

Texans_Chick
11-30-2005, 10:11 AM
ROTFLMAO!!! :heh: If I had to pick the top 10 posts of all time in the forum, I think you'd easily have 4-5 of them just for the humor alone. Classic, Texans_Chick, and thanks for the smiles.

With this sort of season, if I'm not laughing, I'm gonna cry and there's no crying in football.

Although I will say I don't much care for making jokes at the Texans expense, though I suppose sometimes the jokes tend to make themselves. Just never been a big believer in kicking people when they are down.

Thanks again for the kind words.:texflag:

billtxus
11-30-2005, 02:36 PM
You fire Capers now because he has lost credibility and because Bob needs to show the fans that he is sick of the incompetance on the field. During the preseason Dom kept saying "wait until the season starts and we will start playing decent" Anyone who knows anything could see how awful this team was playing in the preseason and the real season was going to start out badly. It started out WORSE than the preseason because the incompetance went on for a full game.

Now we have last Sunday's debacle, the coaches on both offense and defense stop playing agressively the second half, we have players who took off their tape before the last touchdown of the 4th quarter thinking the game was over. They had no chance in overtime, they had mentally left the game. Coleman intercepts and fumbles a ball he should have knocked down, Robinson is playing 15 yards off a guy on 4th and 8.

Of course the players are on the field, but the coaches could have done a lot of things to win Sunday's game.

Put in a caretaker, play the backups to find out who can play, and send the fans and team a message that the incompetance will not be tolerated. Dom is not going to be looking at players for next year, he knows there is no next year.

If we wait until the offseason, maybe hire a new coach, but without the impact of sending a message of what won't be tolerated by the owner. So will get the usual platitudes about giving the new guy some time and still wondering if Bob knows how to run a team.

GP
11-30-2005, 06:19 PM
I'm still 50-50 on whether Bob McNair is going to be a good owner or not.

I have to see it to believe it. Some of what Nighthawk says, I can sort of relate to: If the guy is such a good businessman...why does he not get rid of the dead weight? It's a very legitimate question if you ask me. In any other line of work, a guy like Capers would have been gone QUICKLY. So why the good sportsmanship?

To me, there's two types of owners: Business owners and Hobby owners. A Business owner will keep his team's cap down, and he really cares about the profitability of the team...nickel and diming everyone to make a profit. You have that sort of ownership with the NBA's Clippers, whose owner is a famous tightwad and will NOT pay the bucks for great players, he's only concerned about turning a profit.

A Hobby owner is someone like Daniel Snyder who will spend whatever it takes to get what he feels is the best chance at a title. Yes, it hasn't worked out well for Snyder...but as a fan, which do you want as an owner? A tightwad or an ATM machine?

Hopefully Mcnair is a little bit of both. However, I have to admit that seeing the moves this team has made: Getting Buchanon and giving away draft picks, Being under the cap by how many millions of dollars?, and Not getting Orlando Pace to protect your "franchise QB's" backside, and many other penny pinching moves in terms of personnel, you gotta' scratch your head a little bit and think what if this is the best that it gets? Are we in store for another decade-long run of the Astros Part II where only recently do you see the tightfisted owner open up a little to really make a run at the title?

I can't bash McNair just yet, but this offseason will prove to me just how much of a "real" chance this team will ever have in terms of seriously contending for a title. Can't exactly say that I feel confident in his ownership as things currently stand.

Nighthawk
11-30-2005, 06:34 PM
Really, guys, I'm not bashing McNair. I'm just saying he should fire Capers and Casserly and start the public hunt for a replacement while at the same time trying out a lot of players who Capers and Casserly won't play for personal reasons (I guess), first among which is Ragone, for example. Armstrong (though he's getting a little more time), and what's'isname, the kick return guy who should be getting WR time to help him get better, to help the Texans get better.

All's I'm saying is this goose is cooked and let's get it outta the oven. If McNair were a little less cautious it would benefit the team to have Capers and Casserly gone, the "new situation" clearly established (though without the new coach and GM just yet), and start off on the future of the club. Who is way down on the depth chart who should be seen in the games? Who is there to be discovered? WHo might just blossom if thrown into the real games?

We have an opportunity here, and the opportunity is being missed because the owner is being cautious, sort of Capers-like, playing not to lose, when he could open things up.
Nobody has successfully or persuasively argued the case for NOT FIRING Capers and Casserly now. What could possibly be the reason?

The only reason I'm thinking of, which few on the board have sussed out, is that McNair may be thinking of NOT FIRING Capers, or Casserly, or both of them.

THAT is a terrifying thought. All just IMHO, naturally.

Wolf
11-30-2005, 07:23 PM
i'd like to see them gone too.. but who are you going to bring in? College season is still going, nfl season is still going.. All coaches that would be worth interim are either a) with our team now or B) no one wanted them before the season started.. or the very last choice bring someone out of retirement..

it is slim pickings right now..

Texans_Chick
11-30-2005, 10:04 PM
I'm still 50-50 on whether Bob McNair is going to be a good owner or not.

I have to see it to believe it. Some of what Nighthawk says, I can sort of relate to: If the guy is such a good businessman...why does he not get rid of the dead weight? It's a very legitimate question if you ask me. In any other line of work, a guy like Capers would have been gone QUICKLY. So why the good sportsmanship?

......Hopefully Mcnair is a little bit of both. However, I have to admit that seeing the moves this team has made: Getting Buchanon and giving away draft picks, Being under the cap by how many millions of dollars?, and Not getting Orlando Pace to protect your "franchise QB's" backside, and many other penny pinching moves in terms of personnel, you gotta' scratch your head a little bit and think what if this is the best that it gets? Are we in store for another decade-long run of the Astros Part II where only recently do you see the tightfisted owner open up a little to really make a run at the title?

I can't bash McNair just yet, but this offseason will prove to me just how much of a "real" chance this team will ever have in terms of seriously contending for a title. Can't exactly say that I feel confident in his ownership as things currently stand.


My splanation. It may not be the right splanation but its how I've seen it. This is a weird season for the team. High expectations. Ugly preseason, but sometimes that doesn't translate--though in our case it did. Our early season schedule has been absolutely brutal--one of the hardest in the league.

What gets you fired pretty quick is when you lose to a bunch of dog teams. So, if our season was reversed, with the easy teams up front, and we lost to them, it might have got Capers canned quick.

What happened is early in the season our QB kept getting killed, and our O looked terrible. The defense looked bad too but you wondered how much of that was being on the field after so many 3 and outs. Palmer gets sacked because there was another reasonable option in the fold--Pendry. He gets a bit of rope because it takes a bit of time to figure out stuff but even still, the Texans face a bunch of tough Ds.

Injuries injuries injuries to key players during a rough part of the schedule make it kinda harsh to nix your coach too. (Yeah, every team has injuries, but all our rookie starters and players new to the team, the Texans have about as much depth as Jessica Simpson).

So, by the time you get to the easier parts of the schedule, it gets kinda pointless to can the head coach because you really don't have anyone better to step in. McNair said it plainly in the Chronic--you replace when you have a better replacement. Personally, I still think the team is playing hard for the coaches, but a team has to be a team--everybody has to do their part and play together and when the parts fail, it don't look so pretty. A play here or there really makes a difference.

So, that is my sum up to date. Why a reasonable person might have made the decision to keep pat until the end of the season. I don't think it has anything to do with class or good sportsmanship, but rather not knowing if the team was playing poorly due the competition faced or because of injuries or because of the scheme. And by the time the writing was on the wall, it was kinda pointless to make a change. Cuz it wouldn't really accomplish much.

As for the offseason moves, it is easy to slam them in retrospect, but at the time, a lot of folks were pretty excited about them.

Pbuc--just look at some of the old threads. It was a demonstration that the Texans were concerned with shoring up the dbs. They took a risk, and the risk did not pan out. Heck, 790am was so excited about that pickup they gave Pbuc his own radio show.

Orlando Pace--The Texans tried to get him. We couldn't stop the Rams from matching. Riley wasn't the answer, but the Texans were trying to find what they could get. Starting LT don't fall outta trees, but if they did, they would leave really big craters in the ground, I suppose.

"Penny Pinching Personnel"--I am not sure we will know the whole story with why different people were hired or not hired, but if you look at who we have on our coaching/draft staff, we have a good number of people who have experienced success throughout the league. Folks might want to call them castoffs, but if you coach long enough, most people get canned. It is just the deal.

Staying Flexible Under the Cap--That is a Casserly thing, not a McNair thing.

I haven't seen too many examples of Mr. McNair being tight fisted--in fact, more often than not, I've seen him demonstrate a great willingness to spend money to make money and a great personal generousity. (Katrina relief, for example).

Obviously, it is early in his history as an owner, but throwing him under the bus as a cheapskate owner--well, I don't see it. At the end of the season, we may not end up getting the coach we want but I am guessing it won't be because the wheelbarrow of money wasn't there--it just may be that nobody of note wants to take the risks inherent with dealing with a baby franchise.

sakebomb
11-30-2005, 10:25 PM
He doesn't have to fire anyone right now for me to feel better. I know it's coming just like the coaching staff does. It's only a few weeks away. Be patient.

Matt Millen fired Mariucci in hopes of saving his own job. Plain and simple.

billtxus
12-01-2005, 08:39 AM
You are right. We will learn more about what Bob knows about football over the next six months, than we have over the past 4 years. Its easy to be an owner when things look to be on schedule. This season demonstrated how weak the GM and coaches are.

I never saw a team play as badly as this team did in the preseason. There were a couple of games when every posession with Carr on the field were three and outs. To try and then explain it away as the preseason was insulting. I never saw a team play as badly as it did the first couple of games of the season.

So Bob has to figure out, why were the first three seasons reasonably successful and this one a cluster ******? And what to do about it. If he panics like the coaches apparently did in the offseason he could make matters worse and delay rebuilding a couple of years. If he is just smart enough he may be able to recover some of the previous year's success and not have to start completely over. That is his challenge.