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View Full Version : Future Options; bush myths put to rest


YoungTexanFan
11-28-2005, 07:36 PM
It seems that every year there is a "hot" prospect that everyone wants to get: ST, DJ...me too, Bush...

but there will always be one every year.

Bush is a phenominal athlete and all around football player, but ask yourself, when was the last time there was a "hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

who is there next year you might ask?
LT's: Joe Thomas if he stays in school
RB's: Adrian Peterson...one of two people i am deciding between for next years draft, Lendale White, RB from UT.

There will always be a top tier RB or three each year, but to find an elite LT is rare. Alex Barron was the best last year, and would probally be a second round draft pick this year. Ced. Benson, R. Brown, and Cadillac are all just as good as bush. Bush is very versitle and provides a different dimension with his ability to play WR you will argue. You will argue that DD is not an every down back, but then ask yourself, how many carries are you expecting bush to recieve? It will be argued that he will recieve touches at WR.
We currently have 4 RB's on the roster: DD, Wells, Morency, Hollings.
You say hollings is gone this year, ok that leaves you with:
DD- long term contract that will have little trade value, Wells- a solid back up, also used for short yardage, and Morency- a third round draft pick from last year who will not be cut or traded.
I'm going to assume that the next option for bush supporters would be to drop wells and hollingsand leave DD as a back up. Well, DD is not a big bruiser, short yardage back, and bush is even further from one. Wells must stay.

"We can play DD at WR while bush is at RB"
That is ignorant and blind love. DD is a generous 5'9 with minimal breakaway speed. He is not a WR.

"Bush will get his chance at WR because he has the ability"
We currently have at least 5 WR's on our roster who would make other teams rosters.

"Bush will be our deep threat and force teams not to double AJ"
We have mathis to do this. Mathis is faster and has better hands downfield.

"Bush can be our slot guy then"
IF we were to draft him, the last place i would want him would be the middle of the field.

"Servicable OL will be available in the second round."
What have we done with our second round picks? Guys might slide some, but not as much as you would like to believe. There are two, and only two elite LT prospects this year: Winston and D'brick. The rest are second and third tier OL guys, and have a better than average chance to be a bench guy.

"We should take the best playmaker available"
In most cases yes, but we have obvious needs that need to be filled before we worry about another playmaker. The way I see it is this: we have aj, carr, DD, and mathis. that equals 1 qb, one rb, and 2 wr, 1 kr.

"A team like ours needs play makers, not linemen."
We have enough offensive playmakers to be a playoff team. Dont waste 1st round picks like detroit. Who are the best teams around the league? Steelers, Seahawks, Bears, Colts. All of the teams forementioned have an average number of playmakes except for the colts who never were able to be sucessful, even with their abdundence of playmakers, until they built a defense and a solid OL. The most sucessful teams have maybe one or two superstars on their teams, and a great OL in common.

i will post more later. i know this is quite a read, but hopefully i've made my point and turned some heads. let me know what you think because this took some time to write.

awtysst
11-28-2005, 07:52 PM
I know what you are saying, but I disagree on your value of some of the lineman from last year.

Brown not Barron was the first lineman taken and honestly the better tackle.
Last year Brown went in the middle of the first round(13) while Barron went 19. if they were in this year's draft I am pretty confident they would not be in those spots. Brown likely would be a mid 2nd rounder at best. I am pretty confident that barron would slip all the way to the third round.

You said it, you cannot get a stud LT every year.

YoungTexanFan
11-28-2005, 08:27 PM
Yes, brown is better this year, but barron will soon be better. He would still not crack the first this year, either of them.

Every year there is at least one new, cant miss RB that everyone "needs"

Every three years there is a LT that teams "want"

I want the top LT this year, whoever grades out higher.

My options for 2007 first round pick: Adrian Peterson, Greg Olsen


my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.

beerlover
11-28-2005, 08:57 PM
my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.

yes, yes, yes :love:

Trap_Star
11-28-2005, 10:15 PM
:yahoo: finally, somebody has seen the light...:ok: Yes, brown is better this year, but barron will soon be better. He would still not crack the first this year, either of them.

Every year there is at least one new, cant miss RB that everyone "needs"

Every three years there is a LT that teams "want"

I want the top LT this year, whoever grades out higher.

My options for 2007 first round pick: Adrian Peterson, Greg Olsen


my perfect solution:
trade down this year, aquiring a first next year. Draft Winston this year. Next year, draft Peterson and Olsen with our two first round picks.

cadahnic
11-28-2005, 10:21 PM
Ok YTF you and me usually see eye to eye on draft prospects, but maybe you are overgrading Adrian Peterson. Personally I like Peterson, but is he really that much better than say Chris Brown. Yeah he may be faster, but they are very similar style runners. I think LenDale White is the steal RB next year. He reminds me alot of Ronnie Brown. White will be a stud in the NFL barring injury. So if for some reason we go RB next year instead of stud DE. Then we should take White.

YoungTexanFan
11-28-2005, 10:34 PM
my hope for this years draft:
trade down, aquire a next years first, and a this years third
LT-Winston around #7
DE-Dumervile or Tapp
OG-Luiti
FS-Slay
TE-guy from colorado who's name i cant spell


that covers the first day.

Next year
Peterson
Olsen

that covers round one.



I like adrian peterson because he showed that if given adequate talent around him, he can be an elite back, and an every down back. He showed me this year, that he does not need a 7 year qb and a great o line. He has one top o line member this year and is still producing.

Lendale white will be great, a better pro than bush i feel, but peterson is going to be better. Bigger, faster, better vision, and he will have more experience behind less of a line.

Olsen is the next Shocky and probally better. I know i want us to take kolse...you fill in the rest, but olsen is the best TE in a while, the other guy is just to shut up the impatient members of our disgruntled community.

MorKnolle
11-28-2005, 10:52 PM
While Adrian Peterson is a very talented and big RB, people keep complaining that Domanick Davis doesn't have breakaway speed but Peterson does not either. He is barely faster straight-line speed than Davis but I don't think he is as quick. Am I necessarily saying Davis is better than Peterson will be? No, but the main knock I hear on this board about Davis is that he is not super fast but Peterson is not either. I personally like our current RB situation and do not see us drafting Bush this year unless we use him primarily as a WR and 3rd down RB or Peterson next year.

cadahnic
11-28-2005, 10:58 PM
I agree on Olsen and hope he comes out this year to be honest we could likely snatch him in the second I think he is a junior or 3rd year sophmore. Either way he is solid. Peterson and White will be the top RBs next year to go along with Quinn and VY. I doubt we will be looking at either of them honestly unless one falls to us then hell why not. Olsen is a guy that will likely go in the top10 when he comes out.

Is Slay really a FS or a SS. You did not list a LB or CB which are huge needs for us.

YoungTexanFan
11-28-2005, 11:04 PM
I agree on Olsen and hope he comes out this year to be honest we could likely snatch him in the second I think he is a junior or 3rd year sophmore. Either way he is solid. Peterson and White will be the top RBs next year to go along with Quinn and VY. I doubt we will be looking at either of them honestly unless one falls to us then hell why not. Olsen is a guy that will likely go in the top10 when he comes out.

Is Slay really a FS or a SS. You did not list a LB or CB which are huge needs for us.


there are no CB's worthy of our picks when we would pick. no one in this draft at CB is an upgrade over Buchanon, even the guy from Vtech.

LB's: I would love to substitute Ahmad brooks for our second round pick, he has a chance to fall if he declares. LB's tend to drop further than projected and there is a small cluster of them this year: hawk, brooks, hodge, howard, greenway, ryans, and a few others. not all of these will be first round picks. Brooks and ryans will be steals for where they are currently projected to go. Hawk will be solid value for his spot. the rest i feel are bust waiting to happen, with the exception to howard who is hit or miss for me still.

YoungTexanFan
11-28-2005, 11:08 PM
I dont really care what position slay is classified under, he is a ball-hawking safty in the body of a LB. He is one of few college players at any position to drive through the tackle and finish properly. He diplays leadership ability and uncanny tenacity. He is very good in coverage but is able to crowd the box to stop the run.

NFL comparision for me: a mix between Thomas Davis and Troy Poluemeu *sp*

F-minus67
11-29-2005, 12:20 AM
The guy from Colorado is Joel Klopenstien.

Napa Auto Parts
11-29-2005, 01:04 AM
[QUOTE=YoungTexanFan]

"hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

Gallery was last year not three years ago Ferguson can be good along with Winston but i dont see them as being Elite. not if youve seen any of there Games they havent been the Dominating Force some people want to make them out be:embarrass

YoungTexanFan
11-29-2005, 07:30 AM
[QUOTE=YoungTexanFan]

"hot" linemen prospect? Gallery?
Elite linemen seem to come every three years on the average, while elite RB's seem to come 1-2 a year.
This years LT's: D'brick, Winston
This years RB's: Bush, D. Williams

Gallery was last year not three years ago Ferguson can be good along with Winston but i dont see them as being Elite. not if youve seen any of there Games they havent been the Dominating Force some people want to make them out be:embarrass

Gallery was two years ago at least, taken #2 overall. last year was alex barron and jamal brown. nothing special last year.

Ferguson has been showing why he needs to add muscle mass this year but has not lost his top 5 rating. Winston has come back from his injury and is getting better by the week. Wait until combine.

Hervoyel
11-29-2005, 09:34 AM
I may be the only person here who wants to see the Texans trade back up into the first round after picking Bush instead of simply trading that top pick down for more picks.

How you feel about spending that first round pick is really determined by what you think is wrong with the Texans. If you are of the opinion that our primary problem is a lack of players/talent then you want to trade it down for more picks. If you think the main problem is with our coaches then you want to draft the best guy you possibly can with the pick we already have.

I personally feel that our problems are mostly coaching/scheme related and that we're closer to being good than we appear to be. Assuming the Texans end up with the top pick in the draft I want to see them take Reggie Bush with that pick, then make an attempt to bundle some combination of Domanick Davis, our 2 and one of our 3's to get back up into the first round to select one of this years outstanding LT prospects. That still leaves us with a 3 to go hunting a TE, FS or whatever we haven't been able to address in free agency.

awtysst
11-29-2005, 10:26 AM
there are no CB's worthy of our picks when we would pick. no one in this draft at CB is an upgrade over Buchanon, even the guy from Vtech.

LB's: I would love to substitute Ahmad brooks for our second round pick, he has a chance to fall if he declares. LB's tend to drop further than projected and there is a small cluster of them this year: hawk, brooks, hodge, howard, greenway, ryans, and a few others. not all of these will be first round picks. Brooks and ryans will be steals for where they are currently projected to go. Hawk will be solid value for his spot. the rest i feel are bust waiting to happen, with the exception to howard who is hit or miss for me still.

Kelly jennings CB from Miami.

beerlover
11-29-2005, 10:33 AM
I may be the only person here who wants to see the Texans trade back up into the first round after picking Bush instead of simply trading that top pick down for more picks.

this would be a nightmare scenero :hairpull:
something Casserly would do- "Babin can play, really"
for once I would like to see the Texans use (minimum) ALL THEIR PICKS other than trading down from the 1st pick to aquire MORE PICKS. Forgive me if I seem skeptical but the Texans eye for talent via trade or Free Agency has not exactly garner'ed rave reviews. at least with the guys drafted Casserly has done OK, in fact and this is my critical contention is that his draft record would be above average if he had kept those picks instead of trading away (2nd & 3rd in 05) trading up into the 1st rd. (2nd, 3rd & 4th) & suppemental (Hollings 2nd rd.)

SESupergenius
11-29-2005, 11:31 AM
I personally think Babin will be fine. This is only his 2nd year and he's been injured a bit, but the last few games he's really been playing with fire. I've said it many times, Tweeners in the 3-4 take more time to develop. Some more than others and I think that is where Babin is categorized, but I still think he's a damn good OLB. IMO the coaching staff is bringing him along too fast, hindering his confidence.

Sure can go after Bush, then we would have 4 RB's. Bush, DD (who we just gave a fat contract to), Morency, and either Wells or Hollings. Does that make any sense?

Ok so then we can after a QB. Lienart or Young. Since we have the 1st pick it the consesus is Lienart. ok so by the time we draft we would have already made our decision on Carr. More than likely, especially after last game, we are staying with Carr. So Lienart is out. We should however pick up a QB either in FA or in this draft. Banks has to go.

So what does that leave us? Well that leaves us with what the true problems are with our team, the offensive line and the defensive unit as a whole. I don't think there is a tackle worthy of the number one pick but Lienart is worth that pick but we don't need him, so we trade. Either we trade for players or trade down. One scenario is to trade to Washington our 1st pick and maybe get a LB in Arrington and a couple of later round draft picks. I don't like our corps of ILB especially when Wong is injured and who knows how is rehab will go. We are ranked at the botton of the league in run defense, so we need address that either through the draft or FA. There are a few teams that need a QB (Lions, Ravens) so there will be possibilities in trading down. We can trade down and get a solid Tackle and maybe get some extra picks in either the 2nd or 3rd round. This is where we need a strong GM, and frankly I'm not comfortable in Casserlys ability to get good players in these rounds. Fire Casserly at the end of the season and get a stronger minded GM to guide this ship properly with an understanding of what the 3-4 needs to be successful. That GM should have some background with the 3-4 in order for it to be a success.

As I see it our glaring needs are the Oline, TE, Cornerback, Safties and ILB. with the extra 2nd or 3rd round picks we can start filling these needs with the best player available, since we have so many needs we can afford to take the best player available at these positions.

Call me crazy.

Vinny
11-29-2005, 11:37 AM
this would be a nightmare scenero :hairpull:
something Casserly would do- "Babin can play, really"
Books not finished on Babin...but trading up for a tweener project is not the same as trading up for a guy who grades high at a position that he currently plays. Trading up is not the problem...trading up for a guy who has to change positions has shown to be far riskier.

beerlover
11-29-2005, 12:02 PM
Books not finished on Babin...but trading up for a tweener project is not the same as trading up for a guy who grades high at a position that he currently plays. Trading up is not the problem...trading up for a guy who has to change positions has shown to be far riskier.

I hope he is not finished and that he CAN play otherwise its an unbeliveable blunder of epic proportions. the point taken is why incure such risk? and why deplete the depth and talent of a young expansion team when there are so MANY needs?

congratulations on exceeding 6,000 posts, your doing a great job, someday your going to be a General Vinny

Vinny
11-29-2005, 12:07 PM
I'm already generally vinny...so it's no biggie to me.

Hervoyel
11-29-2005, 12:42 PM
Yeah, you're "Vinny"... in a general kind of way. Not specifically or anything.

You aren't "THE Vinny".

Just "a" Vinny. Generally speaking.

Of course that could have been a rank. You could be "General Vinny"....sir.

Hottoddie
11-29-2005, 01:02 PM
YTF,

Here's another thought to throw out there. On average, OL have productive careers that last about 10-15 years (Ray Brown is in his 20th year & was a starter just last year), while RB's generally last about 5-10 years & their production starts to really tail off after about 7-8 years. There are exceptions to these numbers, but they are few & far between.

I too, would rather we go into this draft with the intention of building a World Class OL. This year is the best one in a long time to draft players that can start from day 1. With Pitts & Hodgdon, we already have 2 young players that should start for us for many years to come. Now, while I'd love to take D'Brick, I agree with Hervoyel that we should look to trade down & will be surprised if we don't.

Either Eric Winston or Jonathan Scott would be more than adequate as our new starting LT. With our high 2nd round pick (currently the 1st 2nd round pick), we could take a G/RT, like Davin Joseph, Justin Blaylock, or maybe even have a shot at Winston Justice (assuming he comes out). With our second 3rd round pick, we might be able to pick up another guard like Ryan Cook. That would be adding 3 quality OL, with the potential for all of them to start in the next year or two.

Now, if Washington can lose a few more games to drop their draft pick (Which Denver owns) into the 10-15 range, & Denver decides they want that #1 overall pick, we might be able to pick up another 1st round pick this year (#31 & #10-15?). With that extra #1 pick, we might be able to draft one of the top LB's or CB's. Although, with McKenzie, I don't think we're going to need a CB this year.

MorKnolle
11-29-2005, 01:15 PM
YTF,

Here's another thought to throw out there. On average, OL have productive careers that last about 10-15 years (Ray Brown is in his 20th year & was a starter just last year), while RB's generally last about 5-10 years & their production starts to really tail off after about 7-8 years. There are exceptions to these numbers, but they are few & far between.

I too, would rather we go into this draft with the intention of building a World Class OL. This year is the best one in a long time to draft players that can start from day 1. With Pitts & Hodgdon, we already have 2 young players that should start for us for many years to come. Now, while I'd love to take D'Brick, I agree with Hervoyel that we should look to trade down & will be surprised if we don't.

Either Eric Winston or Jonathan Scott would be more than adequate as our new starting LT. With our high 2nd round pick (currently the 1st 2nd round pick), we could take a G/RT, like Davin Joseph, Justin Blaylock, or maybe even have a shot at Winston Justice (assuming he comes out). With our second 3rd round pick, we might be able to pick up another guard like Ryan Cook. That would be adding 3 quality OL, with the potential for all of them to start in the next year or two.

Now, if Washington can lose a few more games to drop their draft pick (Which Denver owns) into the 10-15 range, & Denver decides they want that #1 overall pick, we might be able to pick up another 1st round pick this year (#31 & #10-15?). With that extra #1 pick, we might be able to draft one of the top LB's or CB's. Although, with McKenzie, I don't think we're going to need a CB this year.

I don't see Denver needing/wanting anyone that would require them to trade up to the #1 so I doubt that will happen. I do like taking Winston in the first roung and another OL in the second (Joseph or whoever, I haven't researched OLmen other than the top few yet this year), but I don't think we need to pick up a third OL, unless it's later in the draft like a 5th-6th rounder if there is a decent prospect that slips through. I think there are a few other need we will have to fill. I think Pitts and Weigert are both definitely starters for next year, and Hodgdon could start at OC although he isn't real effective in run blocking, but McKinney hasn't been doing as well in pass blocking this year. Also, I would like to see us take a CB if there is a good one available after we draft our two OL. McKenzie looked ok but he's been on practice squad this whole year behind Buchanon and the rest of them, so he must not be that great.

Vinny
11-29-2005, 01:19 PM
YTF,

Here's another thought to throw out there. On average, OL have productive careers that last about 10-15 years (Ray Brown is in his 20th year & was a starter just last year), while RB's generally last about 5-10 years & their production starts to really tail off after about 7-8 years. There are exceptions to these numbers, but they are few & far between. Conversely, you just can't pick for need when there is a game changing skill guy on the board. Earl had a short career....but he was clearly the right pick in 78. Tampa Bay passed on Earl (we traded up for him), and I bet they have regretted it forever.

Disclaimer: This isn’t an endorsement for Bush…because I don’t know what I’d do at this point....just pointing out that picking for need isn't always smart.


Round Pick Player Name Team Position College
1 1 1 Earl Campbell Oilers RB Texas
2 2 Art Still Chiefs DE Kentucky
3 3 Wes Chandler Saints WR Florida
4 4 Chris Ward Jets T Ohio State
5 5 Terry Miller Bills RB Oklahoma State
6 6 James Lofton Packers WR Stanford
7 7 Ken MacAfee 49ers TE Notre Dame
8 8 Ross Browner Bengals DE Notre Dame
9 9 Keith Simpson Seahawks DB Memphis State
10 10 Gordon King Giants T Stanford
11 11 Luther Bradley Lions DB Notre Dame
12 12 Clay Matthews Browns LB USC
13 13 Mike Kenn Falcons T Michigan

Hervoyel
11-29-2005, 01:26 PM
Now, while I'd love to take D'Brick, I agree with Hervoyel that we should look to trade down & will be surprised if we don't.

Just for the record I actually advocate staying put, drafting Bush if we can, and then trying to trade our way back up into the first round to get our LT prospect.

I envision a package that includes Domanick Davis, our #2, and possibly one of our #3 picks to get back up high enough to select a guy who can start for us from day one.

We still finish day one with three picks (Bush, LT, and our 3rd rounder...a TE I hope) and we move Pitts back inside to LG where he belongs. Our line then looks like

New LT - Pitts - Hodgdon - Weigert or Brown - Wade

Our offensive line started out lousy (2002), got better fast (2003), then took a turn downhill (2004) roughly at the same time that Pendry came to town, and then went to pieces (2005) under Joe Pendry's watch.

It's coaching. We still need a LT of course but the rest of these guys on the line arent' the disasters that they look like under Pendry. We got better play out of the guys in 2003 before he got here! Also obviously of course the zone blocking scheme did not effect our pass protection. I hear that all the time and it's true. Pendry did coach both however and the production turned down sharply when he arrived.

MorKnolle
11-29-2005, 01:36 PM
Just for the record I actually advocate staying put, drafting Bush if we can, and then trying to trade our way back up into the first round to get our LT prospect.

I envision a package that includes Domanick Davis, our #2, and possibly one of our #3 picks to get back up high enough to select a guy who can start for us from day one.


I definitely don't like trading off our starting RB to move up in the draft.


New LT - Pitts - Hodgdon - Weigert or Brown - Wade

This would not be a good line for us. Pitts has clearly shown that he belongs at OT and can succeed at LT, so moving him back into OG would not be a good move, and I'd prefer to have a rookie start the season at RT, maybe switch with Pitts later in the year if he is good enough. Hodgdon was pretty good in pass protection but was not real good in run blocking so I'm not completely sold on him being our starting OC yet. I don't like leaving Wade in there as he has lost his run blocking skills and has shown he can't protect the QB from the OT spot, although we are locked into a pretty sizable contract with him. Weigert is still good at OG. I would like to see us draft on OT (preferably Winston) to start the year at RT and then pick up a OG (maybe Joseph from UT) so we'd have Pitts-Weigert-Hodgdon-rookie RG-rookie RT to form a solid line. Wade could challenge for a OG spot and McKinney could stay on as depth at OG or OC since he is bigger than Hodgdon. I'd keep Brown for depth since he can play multiple positions and can Riley, although he has looked decent at OG.

Vinny
11-29-2005, 01:38 PM
I envision a package that includes Domanick Davis, our #2, and possibly one of our #3 picks to get back up high enough to select a guy who can start for us from day one.

I like your idea Herv but our Einstein GM has made trading Dom Davis nearly impossible. Davis received a $5 million bonus a couple months ago. His scheduled base salaries skyrocket in 2007. He is also due roughly $2 million in roster and option bonuses next year. So.... in order for a trade to happen, the Texans would need to take on $4 million in dead money AND find a team willing to pay that kind of salary to a "decent" starting running back, one that has yet to prove capable of staying healthy long enough to carry a full 16-game load by himself.

stevo3883
11-29-2005, 03:42 PM
While Adrian Peterson is a very talented and big RB, people keep complaining that Domanick Davis doesn't have breakaway speed but Peterson does not either. He is barely faster straight-line speed than Davis but I don't think he is as quick.

ok, that is not even close to being true. Peterson is a downhill back, but he has legit sub 4.4 speed. He was a very good sprinter in HS.

he is much much faster than Davis is.



Peterson is seriously one of the best RB prospects ive ever seen. His build is just amazing, 215 lb's of pure muscle that moves like he does. He can run by you or over you like no one else. He has elite speed & elite strength.

comparing the 2 is ridiculous, Peterson had an NFL body his freshman year of College.

MorKnolle
11-29-2005, 03:50 PM
I am not saying Peterson will not be an excellent NFL RB, I was very impressed with him last year as a freshman. However, he is not that much faster that Davis is, but he is a little faster (as I said before). However, he is not as quick moving side to side and is not any quicker at accelerating through a hole than Davis is. Peterson is an impressive physical specimen, but Davis outweighs Peterson by 5 pounds despite being 4-5 inches shorter, so while Peterson does run with a lot of power in college I doubt he will run over many NFL LBs at 210 lbs. I'm not at all saying Peterson will not be good because I think he will be a pro bowl RB by his third year in the league, I was just pointing out that the main complaint people have had about Davis is his lack of breakaway speed when Peterson is not a super speedster either.

Hervoyel
11-29-2005, 03:51 PM
I like your idea Herv but our Einstein GM has made trading Dom Davis nearly impossible.


Yes, I can see how that would be a problem. Possibly not as big a problem if Davis had put up those 1,500+ or so yards that he says he's capable of but hasn't demonstrated he can do. A great year this season from DD might have those of us willing to trade him wanting to keep him or at least made him a player that might "tempt" another GM.

I think we need Matt Millen involved to get this done. Somebody give him a call!

YoungTexanFan
11-29-2005, 03:51 PM
ok, that is not even close to being true. Peterson is a downhill back, but he has legit sub 4.4 speed. He was a very good sprinter in HS.

he is much much faster than Davis is.



Peterson is seriously one of the best RB prospects ive ever seen. His build is just amazing, 215 lb's of pure muscle that moves like he does. He can run by you or over you like no one else. He has elite speed & elite strength.

comparing the 2 is ridiculous, Peterson had an NFL body his freshman year of College.


the lebron james of college football!!

Hervoyel
11-29-2005, 04:06 PM
I definitely don't like trading off our starting RB to move up in the draft.

To get something you have to give something and in my scenario we would have just selected Reggie Bush with the first pick in the 2006 draft so obviously we'd be committed to playing him. Domanick Davis in that case would be someone who's cap figure we'd be looking to unload and who could help us get a LT to block for our shiny new Heisman winning (maybe) running back.

This would not be a good line for us. Pitts has clearly shown that he belongs at OT and can succeed at LT, so moving him back into OG would not be a good move, and I'd prefer to have a rookie start the season at RT, maybe switch with Pitts later in the year if he is good enough. Hodgdon was pretty good in pass protection but was not real good in run blocking so I'm not completely sold on him being our starting OC yet. I don't like leaving Wade in there as he has lost his run blocking skills and has shown he can't protect the QB from the OT spot, although we are locked into a pretty sizable contract with him. Weigert is still good at OG. I would like to see us draft on OT (preferably Winston) to start the year at RT and then pick up a OG (maybe Joseph from UT) so we'd have Pitts-Weigert-Hodgdon-rookie RG-rookie RT to form a solid line. Wade could challenge for a OG spot and McKinney could stay on as depth at OG or OC since he is bigger than Hodgdon. I'd keep Brown for depth since he can play multiple positions and can Riley, although he has looked decent at OG.

See I think with a coach and system that's got merit this is a very, very good line. Pitts has proven that he can handle the chores at LT and I'm not going to take that away from him. When he was drafted though the consensus (not just here but around the league) was that he would make an awesome guard. Nobody said he couldn't play LT in the NFL. They just said he could be a "Great" guard. Now just because the franchise has spent three years screwing around instead of going out and grabbing a real LT we're all supposed to accept that what they've been trying to do for 3 years (get Pitts converted to our starting LG) was all a big mistake and "Hey! What do ya know! Our LT was here all along!".

That's just some spin coming from a bunch of guys who want to be working here next season but won't be. Pitts can be a good LT but he can be a Pro Bowl LG. Let's go get a potential Pro Bowl LT to play beside him instead of drinking some more Joe Pendry Kool Aid.

The one thing I don't think anyone has seen fit to complain about here in Houston is our facilities and our strength and conditioning coaches. They put muscles on anything that gets close to them and Drew Hodgdon is going to be a strong, crushing center before long. If he can do it upstairs (in his head) and he can hold his own as a rookie in this system then I don't have a lot of concerns about him being able to pull his own weight next year.

At RG I think an offensive line coach who's worth what you're paying him (we haven't seen one of those since Dom brought in his ol' buddy Joe) will have Milford Brown ready to take over when Zach Weigert retires. At RT Todd Wade is going to show a lot of people here why he was signed in the first place. At the very worst he's going to provide serious competition to our LT prospect who (I agree with you here) probably starts the season at RT instead of left and thus makes it necessary to keep Pitts at LT for one more year. I think if this is the case then we can find a guy to play LG for 2006 without much trouble.

That's just my wacky idea of what should be. It's just another fans take and it's as full of holes as most everything else being posted right now.

stevo3883
11-29-2005, 04:27 PM
I am not saying Peterson will not be an excellent NFL RB, I was very impressed with him last year as a freshman. However, he is not that much faster that Davis is, but he is a little faster (as I said before). However, he is not as quick moving side to side and is not any quicker at accelerating through a hole than Davis is. Peterson is an impressive physical specimen, but Davis outweighs Peterson by 5 pounds despite being 4-5 inches shorter, so while Peterson does run with a lot of power in college I doubt he will run over many NFL LBs at 210 lbs. I'm not at all saying Peterson will not be good because I think he will be a pro bowl RB by his third year in the league, I was just pointing out that the main complaint people have had about Davis is his lack of breakaway speed when Peterson is not a super speedster either.


a super speedster? how many super speedsters are there playing RB in the nfl?

Clinton Portis
Warrick Dunn
???


Peterson would be in a class with LT and maybe ahman green as far as 40 speed is concerned.


I have never heard a complaint about Peterson ahving a lack of breakaway speed. ever.

Peterson is around 215 as a 19 year old, and being around 6'1, he has a frame u can add weight to.

Peterson has strength you would never see in someone his size, built like a freaking tank, davis may be 5 lb's heavier, but peterson runs like hes 50 lb heavier.




I would love to have Bush as a Brian Westbrook type role player in our offense, since as of right now, he cant run between the tackles at all.

Peterson would be the best of both worlds, i just hope we somehow end up with him next year.

YoungTexanFan
11-29-2005, 04:49 PM
i havent seen peterson's hands too much, because right now, david carrs favorite play is the dump off to the RB. I'm just going to assume that in my stratagy that we pick olsen also to dump off to instead of DD who will be released or traded after next year...my prediction...

Hottoddie
11-29-2005, 05:21 PM
Conversely, you just can't pick for need when there is a game changing skill guy on the board. Earl had a short career....but he was clearly the right pick in 78. Tampa Bay passed on Earl (we traded up for him), and I bet they have regretted it forever.

Disclaimer: This isn’t an endorsement for Bush…because I don’t know what I’d do at this point....just pointing out that picking for need isn't always smart.


Ahhh yes, but we also had a much better OL, FB, & TE during that time as well. Since Earl did most of his best work from 1978-1981, here's the players that he had blocking for him. In 1983 he had Matthews & Munchak on the left side.

LT: Leon Gray
LG: Conway Hayman
C: Carl Mauck
RG: John Schuhmacher
RT: Morris Towns
FB: Tim Wilson
TE: Mike Barber

Gray was an All-Pro in the prime of his career.
Hayman was moved from RT after Reihner blew out his knee.

By the way, does the roster from this link bring back some good memories. Just looking at the names brings it all back for me. :)

http://www.footballdb.com/teamrost.html?tm=31&yr=1978

Vinny
11-29-2005, 05:39 PM
Ahhh yes, but we also had a much better OL, FB, & TE during that time as well. Not at first. Leon Gray was still on the Patriots when we drafted Earl. Gray held out in 1978 and came here in 1979 on a trade since Mo Townes was an incredible bust (so was T Angelo Fields too), and Munchak and Matthews era didn't start till 1982. We even sent our best TE to the Bucs in Earl's trade package (Jimmy Giles). I think we had Rich Caster on that Earl rookie team as well as Barber. We had a Dom Davis quality RB in Ronnie Coleman when we drafted Campbell too.

texplayer2
11-30-2005, 11:11 AM
I hope he is not finished and that he CAN play otherwise its an unbeliveable blunder of epic proportions. the point taken is why incure such risk? and why deplete the depth and talent of a young expansion team when there are so MANY needs?


I think he was trying to get more defensive talent to offset what he was going to trade away, and so far it didn't work. The focus has been to stay cap friendly and drafting young guys for defense does help, but they haven't given them enough time to develope. Picking Babin was risky, but the coaching staff not developing him fast enough has been Casserly's main problem. At the same time we did get rid of some playmakers on defense, which is a big part of 1-10. It is not as clear what the problems are on offense. The line is not good, but no line will hold for more than a few seconds on any team. You have to have guys that can execute within that time frame. We don't have the line or the guys executing. Picking at the top should be best player available for this team, and as of this week that would be Reggie Bush. We also need O-linemen, and DEfense in this draft/free agency. It only took a few players to go from 7-9 to 1-10. It can go the other way too.:texflag:

YoungTexanFan
11-30-2005, 08:19 PM
It only took a few players to go from 7-9 to 1-10. It can go the other way too.:texflag:

i think it will take a little more, like maybe a new coach and scheme, along with a new GM and scouting department.

with those new pieces in hand, i would guesstamate 2 years until we have a winning season.

edo783
11-30-2005, 10:25 PM
With a DEEP coaching change and 2-4 starters out of the draft and a couple of FAs and this could be a major turn around team. There are some VERY good players on board and if we add some additional talent and GOOD coaching we could easly find ourselves at the 10 win mark next year. Requires a bit of luck, but well within the realm of possibility.

YoungTexanFan
11-30-2005, 10:27 PM
With a DEEP coaching change and 2-4 starters out of the draft and a couple of FAs and this could be a major turn around team. There are some VERY good players on board and if we add some additional talent and GOOD coaching we could easly find ourselves at the 10 win mark next year. Requires a bit of luck, but well within the realm of possibility.

just like this year when we were supposed to be 10-6 i guess?

it will take some time and patientce. we have been screwed over so much, that we must now wait for results. I know, it's absurd!!!!:tomato:

cadahnic
12-01-2005, 07:04 AM
With the right personell moves we could have a major turnaround next season. Mind you major would be anything over 6 wins. I am gonna list a couple of moves for the offseason and just think what might be able to happen.

Casserly fires Capers and Hires Gary Kubiak. Kubiak brings in Dennison and Singletery to be his coordinators. Dennison is a line coach, but Kubiak will handle most of the calls anyway. I would rather see B. Shottenheimer, but what the hell lets go with this.

McNair then tells Casserly that his GM duties have been cut and bring in a good player personnel guy to handle drafting, scouting, and FA pickups.

Kubiak tells us all that D.Carr will have a season like Plummer this year and we will win this year

New personel guy picks up LeCharles Bentley, Andra Davis, and Anthony Weaver as are major FA signings

In the draft he makes two trades down and loads up on picks for this year and next. Selects Eric Winston, Slay, McIntosh, Brooks, and adds alot more depth.

We start the year with high hopes and see if the offseason moves are worth it.

YoungTexanFan
12-01-2005, 06:48 PM
With the right personell moves we could have a major turnaround next season. Mind you major would be anything over 6 wins. I am gonna list a couple of moves for the offseason and just think what might be able to happen.

Casserly fires Capers and Hires Gary Kubiak. Kubiak brings in Dennison and Singletery to be his coordinators. Dennison is a line coach, but Kubiak will handle most of the calls anyway. I would rather see B. Shottenheimer, but what the hell lets go with this.

McNair then tells Casserly that his GM duties have been cut and bring in a good player personnel guy to handle drafting, scouting, and FA pickups.

Kubiak tells us all that D.Carr will have a season like Plummer this year and we will win this year

New personel guy picks up LeCharles Bentley, Andra Davis, and Anthony Weaver as are major FA signings

In the draft he makes two trades down and loads up on picks for this year and next. Selects Eric Winston, Slay, McIntosh, Brooks, and adds alot more depth.

We start the year with high hopes and see if the offseason moves are worth it.



i like that whole basic idea except the assistent coaches. I also dont think those top FA's will come here, but heres to hoping they do!!:texflag: :homer: