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View Full Version : Coleman on the defense (from the chronicle)


Malloy
11-24-2005, 04:01 AM
"The Texans' starting free safety said the team is more conservative than it has ever been and that players aren't capitalizing when a rare opportunity to make a big play arises."

Thanks to the Chronicle:
http://houstonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3481910.html

rmartin65
11-24-2005, 07:35 AM
He's one to talk.

touttail
11-24-2005, 07:42 AM
Marcus states that the coaching won't let them be agressive on defense. He wants to be more agressive!!!!!

What more of a chance can you get to be agressive by covering a WR(not getting burned) or tackling a RB(which he has failed to do numerous times)?

He has got to learn that you tackle a RB By hitting him low, wrapping your arms around his legs, not grabbing him around his shoulders and trying to ride him down to the ground!

bobby 119C:brickwall

Malloy
11-24-2005, 07:56 AM
I realize that it's kinda funny coming from him (who knows, the coaches MIGHT have asked him to play the way he's playing!). The whole conservative-defense critique of Fangio is kinda interesting. It also suggests that P-buck would possible thrive if given loose reins. Who knows really, interesting to see ANY sort of critique from the players though.

Malloy
11-24-2005, 07:58 AM
He has got to learn that you tackle a RB By hitting him low, wrapping your arms around his legs, not grabbing him around his shoulders and trying to ride him down to the ground!


That's long-term tictacs, he's trying to wear down the opposite RB for next year. Man their knees are gonna be bust by then from all those piggybag rides!! :)

Tedc
11-24-2005, 09:10 AM
Fangio may want to consider the fact that the whole coaching staff may be replaced when the new GM and coach come in. If I were him, I would go for broke and show some schemes that the other teams have not seen. It could actually SAVE him a spot on next year's team.As for Coleman's statement......Kudos! It needed to be said and we need a leader.

Wolf
11-24-2005, 09:45 AM
what is ironic is that when the franchise was set up 4 years ago...we all invisioned a blitzing havock wrecking defense.. instead we are conservative.

on offense we wanted to pound the ball and throw deep to stretch the field and put pressure on the opponents defense.. instead we are a conservative offense..

:tomato:

feebleminded
11-24-2005, 09:51 AM
I realize that it's kinda funny coming from him (who knows, the coaches MIGHT have asked him to play the way he's playing!). The whole conservative-defense critique of Fangio is kinda interesting. It also suggests that P-buck would possible thrive if given loose reins. Who knows really, interesting to see ANY sort of critique from the players though.

In watching the games live (and I usually cant see the defensive backfield on TV), it seems to me that Coleman is very often out of position. It looks like he very often has taken poor angles while coming up in run and coverage support. I am curious if anyone else has thoughts on this, because it almost seems like some of this (certainly not all) is scheme based. I cant tell if they are asking to read run on the edges first or what is going on here. I know that this is only his second year since transitioning from corner, and my memory may be clouded by highlights (see KC game LAST year) but I dont recall Colemann being a liability in the secondary, on the contrary he played solid last year IMO.

This kind of thing epitomizes my frustration with this team this year. We have a lot of regression in the play of a number of our players and it is hard to determine if it is mostly effort and attitide or game planning.

Malloy
11-24-2005, 10:03 AM
I'm not quite sure about the positioning so you may have a point there. From what I've seen though, Coleman hardly moves, tackles or defends. It might be scheme, or more likely it's just him not moving from his spot at any time :(

feebleminded
11-24-2005, 10:37 AM
I'm not quite sure about the positioning so you may have a point there. From what I've seen though, Coleman hardly moves, tackles or defends. It might be scheme, or more likely it's just him not moving from his spot at any time :(


You are probably right. Seems like we have alot of that this year. It is just frustrating that we arent talking about potential here, we are just talking about playing up to what has been shown in the recent past.

If these guys really dont care or are lollygagging, versus being asked to do stupid things then I am really concerned about this team. Doesnt seem like it is easy to get a fire back after losing it.

Honoring Earl 34
11-24-2005, 10:50 AM
:brickwall This team is dying a slow death from being overcoached . I guess you could say the coaches are way to controling .... you guys are 1-9 go for a 4th and 3 on their side of the fifty .

wags
11-24-2005, 11:56 AM
Fangio said the more conservative approach has been due to the Texans' personnel. With a number of new starters and players switching positions, he has minimized the risks.

"You want to do more, but can you do more when you're not executing what you're doing already?" Fangio said. "You get to that fine line of should you just get better at what you've been doing or do more."


So why did we go out and get new players?:brickwall

ledzeppelin229
11-24-2005, 12:22 PM
What Fangio needs to get through his head is we have probably the worst defense in the league. "Minimizing risks" has us at 1-9, what does he have to lose?

tsip
11-24-2005, 03:19 PM
What Fangio needs to get through his head is we have probably the worst defense in the league. "Minimizing risks" has us at 1-9, what does he have to lose?

...exactly! We pay players a minimum of almost $400,000 a year and are told by their coaches that we can't do this or that because our players can't even do the bare basics being asked of them now!!!??? And, whats worse, is that this is happening in year 4 of the '5 year plan,' aint a new team anymore. This is not a 'train wreck' scenario-it's far beyond that.

As fans, this team is asking us to spend money on a product that can not produce at an NFL level and has no intention of 'letting its hair down' and going for it. Instead, each week we see game plans--that while conservative in the past-are a sign of a sinking team whose coaches do not have a clue.

Mr McNair, you have a 'big' problem that is only getting worse each week by remaining status quo. The play of this team IMO has reached the point where its fan base is shaking its head and wandering how so many people outside the organization saw this coming...'coaching not to lose.' When we didn't start from day one preaching 'win,' the handwriting was on the wall as we built a foundation that said it was ok to lose. Question--at what point was this team going to develope a 'win' mentality?

A few fans still think we are just a couple players away--are we?:confused:

HJam72
11-24-2005, 07:12 PM
what is ironic is that when the franchise was set up 4 years ago...we all invisioned a blitzing havock wrecking defense.. instead we are conservative.

on offense we wanted to pound the ball and throw deep to stretch the field and put pressure on the opponents defense.. instead we are a conservative offense..

:tomato:

You can't stretch the field if you can't protect your QB and you can't afford to blitz if it never leads to sacks. Like everyone already knows, we're getting killed in the trenches.

barzilla
11-24-2005, 10:32 PM
This is about Coleman setting up the "blame the coaches" argument so the players don't get cut and it's about Fangio starting the "it's not our fault it's Casserly's fault" game. Ah, gotta love the blame game in week 12.

Carr Bombed
11-24-2005, 10:52 PM
At this point I don't think the players care if they get cut, because when we do get rid of players they seem to do well else where. Plus at this point looking at this team I think many players wouldn't mind leaving

Double Barrel
11-24-2005, 10:53 PM
"I just have to play what's called."

That quote says it all. Every player on this team is working his guts out to execute the plays that are called by the coaches. I don't see any slackers, but just players getting beat because they are subjected to bad coaching.

We've been watching the 3-4/cover 2 all season, and I swear it's a form of the dreaded PREVENT defense. This is the coach's decision to run this scheme, and it's not working! Why don't we see any attempt to change?!

We are next to last in every defensive category. But we're going to "keep on doing what we're doing" in the words of Coach Capers!?

The writings is on the wall. (The same wall most fans are smacking their head into :brickwall ) Players are going public with the obvious causes of the meltdown that is this season, which is a sign of a team in turmoil. Hopefully ownership can read that same writing, too.

Texans_Chick
11-24-2005, 11:39 PM
We are next to last in every defensive category. But we're going to "keep on doing what we're doing" in the words of Coach Capers!?

The writings is on the wall. (The same wall most fans are smacking their head into :brickwall ) Players are going public with the obvious causes of the meltdown that is this season, which is a sign of a team in turmoil. Hopefully ownership can read that same writing, too.

Actually, I am rather impressed that it has taken this long for a player to say something about the coaching. And even then, it is a pretty mild statement in the paper.

I think what Capers means about "keep on doing what we're doing" I don't think he means that he doesn't want to make changes to scheme stuff. Rather that he means for people to take the same approach to each game as far as preparation etc, and not start slacking or counterproductive overtrying when it is going bad. At least that is what I understood when I heard those comments in context. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As someone that uh, is known as a big Texans fan, I hear all sorts of comments by all sorts of people about the Texans. Some of the things people say are silly and some not so much, but it is what it is. If you are player, and the team is your job, it has to be totally horrible for them right now--just being dogged.

Sometimes plays don't work even if everybody is doing everything right. Sometimes if one person messes up, it messes up the entire play. It must be harsh to go through camp, think you are gonna have a good season, bust your ***, know your career is finite, risk permanent injury each play, and then be going through this particular season.

You know, if I am sorry at my job, or even if I am good at it, but my company has bad results, nobody really knows, and it doesn't effect my day to day life. It must be a sorry time to be a player right now, and you really aren't supposed to beyotch if you think the problems aren't the players fault. I don't care if you are playing for fun or money, it is no fun to lose games.

Not saying y'all should pull out your tiny violins for these guys, but I do feel for them and understand the temptation of saying hey it aint me, it is the system, especially, if it might actually be true or at least his perception of the truth.

Malloy
11-25-2005, 01:32 AM
We've been watching the 3-4/cover 2 all season, and I swear it's a form of the dreaded PREVENT defense. This is the coach's decision to run this scheme, and it's not working! Why don't we see any attempt to change?!


What do you mean, the prevent works perfectly, it's prevented us from creating anything all year! ;)

barzilla
11-25-2005, 10:00 AM
Texanschic,

Yeah, I see what you're saying. All I'm saying is that all the grousing from three different sides (players, coaches, and player personnel) is going to make it more difficult for McNair to determine who all should get cut. Of course, if's he's smart he'll start with the top (GM) and coaches and let the new staff figure out who stays and who goes.

touttail
11-25-2005, 11:38 PM
it's not working[/i]! Why don't we see any attempt to change?!

I don't know or guess I will never understand the "Prevent" defense. All I ever got from it was the offense steadily moving the ball down the field against the so called Prevent defense!:thud:

bobby 119C:brickwall

HJam72
11-25-2005, 11:43 PM
The prevent D is intended to give up running yardage and short passing plays but stop passes of 15 or more yards in their tracks. It's great for 3rd and really long, like after a sack or two. If the offense needs 20 yds. for a first down and this is their last chance, then it's a perfectly acceptable defense to use. Give them their 10 yd. run or their 8 yd. pass, fine, but it shuts down long plays with buckoo pass coverage and speed everywhere deep. But otherwise, it's a useless D. If you use it just because you are ahead, you are going to give up one 12 yard play after one 8 yd. play after another until your D is befuddled, stupified, and disgusted. Then, it will break down and you will give up the very same big plays that it is designed to prevent....see Bills vs. Oilers.

TopTexanFan16
11-26-2005, 03:04 PM
The true answer to this thread is that our whole defense plays soft, and i think its all on the coaches shoulders. Yes we should be capitalizing on plays often but we play so soft that you can expect on ever passing play the reciever is gonna catch it. Usually when the reciever catches the ball our DB's are 7 yarsds behind. It's retarded. I agree with Coleman the defense has been waaaaaay to conservative, but then he shouldnt be talking till he can tackel someone.