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Texans Horror
11-21-2005, 09:30 AM
I heard that after a fumble, AJ started arguing with Capers, but I didn't see the game. Can anybody explain to me what happened? As taciturn as AJ is, I was suprised to hear that he was verbally fighting with the coach on the sidelines during primetime.

gtexan02
11-21-2005, 10:02 AM
Aj got kneed in the helmet by a chief (it looked like an accident), and got up yelling at the guy. The Chief didn't really back away, and so AJ grabbed his helmet by the facemask and pushed him back. Then he took the ball and threw it in the chief's face. We were penalized 15 yards and so AJ went to the sideline where he was yelling at Capers about something, most likely explaining what happened. It was wrong for AJ to let that happen, as we got knocked out of FG range and it is just a lack of discipline. But for whatever reason, Capers just stood there with his mouth open, looking sort of past AJ, and then AJ went and sat down.

gtexan02
11-21-2005, 10:03 AM
PS: Wouldn't it have been great if we had Tom Coughlin or someone for our HC? THey would have been up in AJs face, screaming and yelling, and getting some ACCOUNTABILITY! from the players. Remember how bad the Giants were? (#2 or 3 pick), and then they got a mean guy for a HC. Last year, everyone hated him, and people were being fined left and right. Now he has Burress under total control and people are talking about them going to the superbowl! their defense is playing with fire. thats what we need!

Texans Horror
11-21-2005, 10:09 AM
That's embarassing to hear that Capers just bent over and took it up the tailpipe. It reminds me of this year's UT-Baylor game when one of the UT receivers (Taylor?) got clear and ran in the TD with nobody around him. He did a celebratory dive into the endzone, and the refs flagged him. When he got to the sidelines, though, Mack Brown tore the kid to pieces, I mean up one side and down the other. A few plays later, Baylor started getting thrown unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. One player was even ejected for making fun of the ref. Did the Baylor coach say/do anything? Nope.

I've heard all this stuff about the Texans trying to draft classy players. If that's true, and if class is a big part of the Texans, then I think Capers should have killed this kid for firing off on the Chiefs, if not for yelling at him.

MorKnolle
11-21-2005, 11:00 AM
Throwing the ball at the guy and getting the penalty for it was dumb but at the same time I'm glad to see someone standing up for themselves. AJ kept getting cheap shots against Pittsburgh and he never reacted to it and all game I was wishing he'd tear one of them apart for it.

cadahnic
11-21-2005, 11:02 AM
AJ is a quiet guy, but he is getting overly fed up with the playcalling, team play, and the fact that every team is taking shots at him. He just had enough and i cannot blame him

the wonger need food
11-21-2005, 11:05 AM
Who could blame the guy for being fed up with this mickey mouse organization. He's losing money every day that he spends on this team, with this quarterback.

JaguarsFan1
11-21-2005, 11:31 AM
It took the Texans out of field goal range when the game was still close. I don't blame him for getting upset, but at the same time you can't hurt your team with stupid penalties.

WWJD
11-21-2005, 11:50 AM
Yea he cost the team pretty sure points right there.

Vinny
11-21-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm sure he was mad at our Coaches for not lighting up the officials when one of our own gets treated like garbage. I'm glad he went off....someone needs to.

FILO_girl
11-21-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm sure he was mad at our Coaches for not lighting up the officials when one of our own gets treated like garbage. I'm glad he went off....someone needs to.

My thoughts exactly. :texflag:

throwANDREtheBALL
11-21-2005, 01:08 PM
Amen!

The only thing that disgusts me, is why isn't every player on this team yelling at the coaches?

Don't give me that respect line either...cuz most of these coaches have proved that they don't deserve any, in the slightest. If it takes all of the players yelling at the coaches to finally get some heads to roll, then DO IT!

Its just disgusting watching Capers on the sideline week after week...Its just sick!

The whole front office seems quite selfish, and seem to only be worried about how long they can keep their jobs. If the coaches and GM, don't really care about the players, then why should the players show them any respect in the slightest?

Texans Horror
11-21-2005, 02:11 PM
Capers needs to have control of his team. Maybe he was just agreeing with AJ to get him to sit down, and maybe AJ had a legitimate complaint - the guy kneed him late. Refs have a history of flagging the wrong guy. I don't know. Like I said earlier, I haven't watched the game, and I certainly haven't graded the tape. But it seems to me that Coach Capers should have told AJ off.

Aside - In talking about Texans attitude, let's not confuse "frustration" with "will to win." The players seem to be trying to motivate themselves, but I think there are more and more evidences of team frustration on and off the field.

MorKnolle
11-21-2005, 02:23 PM
I didn't catch what happened that set him off on that play, I'll have to watch it again on tape tonight. It was stupid to get the penalty for throwing the ball at him but I did like seeing the fire. Speaking of which, did anyone else see Dunta lay into the team on the sideline at the end of the game. At least I know these two guys are sick of losing and are beginning to come out of their shells about it. Back to the tussle though, why is it we can never get calls in those situations? For the second game in a row the visiting team doesn't get called for a single penalty in the first half and it takes the most blatant offensive holding in the history of the NFL to finally get a flag, but every game we get flagged for defensive holding by one of our DL, at least this time it didn't happen with 2 minutes left in the game as we recover a fumble to turn the game around. I appreciate how our recent games have had relatively few penalties (ever since that mess in Seattle) and flowed better because of it, but we still get called with some nitpicky stuff that doesn't get called the other way.

run-david-run
11-21-2005, 05:12 PM
AJ is a quiet guy, but he is getting overly fed up with the playcalling, team play, and the fact that every team is taking shots at him. He just had enough and i cannot blame him
For more on this see: Jacksonville game.. Kenny Wright bodyslaming AJ after his foward progress was clearly stopped...
It seems him, Drob and Gary Walker are the only people on the team with passion (and the special teams coach)

PS- love the fact that Mathis did the "x" sign with his arms after he scored the TD.

run-david-run
11-21-2005, 05:15 PM
I didn't catch what happened that set him off on that play, I'll have to watch it again on tape tonight. It was stupid to get the penalty for throwing the ball at him but I did like seeing the fire. Speaking of which, did anyone else see Dunta lay into the team on the sideline at the end of the game. At least I know these two guys are sick of losing and are beginning to come out of their shells about it. Back to the tussle though, why is it we can never get calls in those situations? For the second game in a row the visiting team doesn't get called for a single penalty in the first half and it takes the most blatant offensive holding in the history of the NFL to finally get a flag, but every game we get flagged for defensive holding by one of our DL, at least this time it didn't happen with 2 minutes left in the game as we recover a fumble to turn the game around. I appreciate how our recent games have had relatively few penalties (ever since that mess in Seattle) and flowed better because of it, but we still get called with some nitpicky stuff that doesn't get called the other way.
In the words of the great broadcasters from last night: "that's what happens when you are 1-8"

You really do have to wonder how much bearing our record has on this type of stuff?:penalty:

GP
11-21-2005, 05:54 PM
He over-reacted. Period.

The guy kneed him on accident. And then AJ tried to get up at the same time, and it looked weird the way it all happened. AJ took offense to it, and the CHiefs player only became agitated and mouthy when AJ was clearly starting the whole problem by over-reacting.

Then, AJ fumbles the ball after gaining a first down. He pouts on the sideline after Capers failed to take the time to point out AJ's lack of focus, and then AJ is on the sideline and just stares out into fantasy land knowing full well that the cameras were on him...with a look that was more, "I can't believe this is happening around here" than it was "I got robbed and cheated."

The guy is so dissatisfied with the status quo (as we are) that I think he just blew up after trying to contain it. He's mad as heck, that's for sure.

I like his skills, and I like his overall demeanor. Last night was just a time where he personally failed to check his emotions. Can you blame him? Probably not. Can you blame a bunch of guys in suits? You bet.

He shouldn't have done it. But make no mistake about it, Capers failed to use his authority as a head coach and to at least have a father-to-son talk about the whole incident. AJ did all the talking, Capers did all the listening, and it's just more proof that Capers is done. Toast. Burnt toast.

I can't stand it when head coaches do not chew out a player for dumb penalties and bad judgment (not protecting the ball). That's where a guy like Holmgren or Coughlin shows the team who is boss, and it just serves the team as a reminder that everyone has a part to play...and you better play it to the best of your ability or else.

(sigh)

What a sad sack of a football team.

HoustonFan
11-21-2005, 05:57 PM
PS: Wouldn't it have been great if we had Tom Coughlin or someone for our HC? THey would have been up in AJs face, screaming and yelling, and getting some ACCOUNTABILITY! from the players. Remember how bad the Giants were? (#2 or 3 pick), and then they got a mean guy for a HC. Last year, everyone hated him, and people were being fined left and right. Now he has Burress under total control and people are talking about them going to the superbowl! their defense is playing with fire. thats what we need!

Check my signature. What trips me out is that Coughlin and Capers were the coaches of the expansion Panthers and Jaguars, both made it to the conference championships the 2nd season, and it's like Coughlin has just blown past Capers. Don't care much for Coughlin, but I like his attitude. Capers on the other hand has lost control of the team.

TexansRoll
11-21-2005, 05:59 PM
That's embarassing to hear that Capers just bent over and took it up the tailpipe. It reminds me of this year's UT-Baylor game when one of the UT receivers (Taylor?) got clear and ran in the TD with nobody around him. He did a celebratory dive into the endzone, and the refs flagged him. When he got to the sidelines, though, Mack Brown tore the kid to pieces, I mean up one side and down the other. A few plays later, Baylor started getting thrown unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. One player was even ejected for making fun of the ref. Did the Baylor coach say/do anything? Nope.

I've heard all this stuff about the Texans trying to draft classy players. If that's true, and if class is a big part of the Texans, then I think Capers should have killed this kid for firing off on the Chiefs, if not for yelling at him.

I was at that game. It was great. Accountability rules (Taylor). I was still a little suprised though because I didn't think Mack even had it in him.

NFLforher
11-21-2005, 07:37 PM
Aj got kneed in the helmet by a chief (it looked like an accident), and got up yelling at the guy. The Chief didn't really back away, and so AJ grabbed his helmet by the facemask and pushed him back. Then he took the ball and threw it in the chief's face. We were penalized 15 yards and so AJ went to the sideline where he was yelling at Capers about something, most likely explaining what happened. It was wrong for AJ to let that happen, as we got knocked out of FG range and it is just a lack of discipline. But for whatever reason, Capers just stood there with his mouth open, looking sort of past AJ, and then AJ went and sat down.


Capers always has his mouth open. Somebody should tell him to shut it.

NFLforher
11-21-2005, 07:39 PM
He over-reacted. Period.

The guy kneed him on accident. And then AJ tried to get up at the same time, and it looked weird the way it all happened. AJ took offense to it, and the CHiefs player only became agitated and mouthy when AJ was clearly starting the whole problem by over-reacting.

Then, AJ fumbles the ball after gaining a first down. He pouts on the sideline after Capers failed to take the time to point out AJ's lack of focus, and then AJ is on the sideline and just stares out into fantasy land knowing full well that the cameras were on him...with a look that was more, "I can't believe this is happening around here" than it was "I got robbed and cheated."

The guy is so dissatisfied with the status quo (as we are) that I think he just blew up after trying to contain it. He's mad as heck, that's for sure.

I like his skills, and I like his overall demeanor. Last night was just a time where he personally failed to check his emotions. Can you blame him? Probably not. Can you blame a bunch of guys in suits? You bet.

He shouldn't have done it. But make no mistake about it, Capers failed to use his authority as a head coach and to at least have a father-to-son talk about the whole incident. AJ did all the talking, Capers did all the listening, and it's just more proof that Capers is done. Toast. Burnt toast.

I can't stand it when head coaches do not chew out a player for dumb penalties and bad judgment (not protecting the ball). That's where a guy like Holmgren or Coughlin shows the team who is boss, and it just serves the team as a reminder that everyone has a part to play...and you better play it to the best of your ability or else.

(sigh)

What a sad sack of a football team.

It looked he was kicked in the head on purpose from where I was looking.

HomeBred_Texan
11-21-2005, 07:46 PM
PS- love the fact that Mathis did the "x" sign with his arms after he scored the TD.
Maybe I am just getting old, but I noticed this also. Does anyone know the meaning of it?

GP
11-21-2005, 08:31 PM
Dante Hall (Chiefs) is called "The X Factor" meaning that his return skills are considered to be a factor (maybe THE factor) in any game he plays in.

Dante got his start in NFL Europe many years ago, or that's where he was "discovered" for his talent. I think he has taken at least six returns for touchdowns for the Chiefs, and one season he was just off the charts phenomenal. Seemed like there was not any game that he wasn't busting returns for either touchdowns or very long gains.

So, Mathis flashed the "x factor" after his return Sunday night. It was pretty much Mathis' way of saying there's a new "x factor" in the NFL.

And with the way he had the Chiefs directional kicking, and even pooch kicking for the rest of the game...you gotta admit that teams will be thinking twice about giving him too much room. That results in better field position even if he doesn't return the ball.

That guy is a draft choice made by the very incompetent Casserly, so I guess we better give him back to some other team that passed on him.

HJam72
11-21-2005, 10:01 PM
I didn't really think AJ was yelling at Capers. I just thought he was explaining something he was unhappy about. Still, Capers was way too lenient about that situation.

run-david-run
11-21-2005, 10:40 PM
Maybe I am just getting old, but I noticed this also. Does anyone know the meaning of it?
That is the thing Dante Hall does when he takes one to the house, his patented celebration... I guess it was like a changing of the guard...

anyone else realize just how good Mathis is at returning? Dante Hall is tied for most career TD's on returns IN A CAREER with 6!!! Mathis has 2 in about 5 games!!! He could get another couple this season and blow that number out of the water, he almost returned a squib kick back for a TD!!! thats crazy...

rittenhouserobz
11-21-2005, 10:41 PM
I refuse toget fired up by the action/inaction of the coaches. I will be content to see the Texans get the overall #1 draft pick, a new GM, and coach. If those three things happen, then I will be happy with the "progress" this team is making.

MorKnolle
11-22-2005, 09:13 AM
It didn't look like AJ was yelling at Capers at all, just explaining what happened. After AJ had already been tackled that other guy came over kneed him in then helmet and stood over him for a couple seconds, I'd be pissed too. Throwing the ball at him was a mistake that could have gotten him ejected and the penalty took us out of FG range, but I would have like to see Andre tear him in half.

billtxus
11-22-2005, 12:40 PM
Except that the penalty put and end to a drive in Chief's territory, and moved them out of field goal range. This is the kind of lack of discipline the team can't afford. Its too easy to bait players into dumb penalties.

touttail
11-22-2005, 06:40 PM
Yea he cost the team pretty sure points right there.

I'm sure a field goal then would have made a big difference in the outcome of the game. RB gets 211 yards against our defense. They would have kicked our butt any way or fashion!

bobby 119C:brickwall

aj.
11-22-2005, 08:13 PM
I'm sure he was mad at our Coaches for not lighting up the officials when one of our own gets treated like garbage.

I could be mistaken but it appeared to me that Andre was mad at Sammy Knight for kicking him in the head. The sideline exchange appeared to be nothing more than AJ explaining to Capers what happened as he headed to the bench (because Capers called him over to ask him). Yes, it was about as animated as you will ever see AJ but I'm not "sure" that the exchange included anything about Capers or any of the other coaches not "lighting up the officials." That seems to be a bit of a stretch. What I am sure about is that it was probably very difficult, if not impossible for the Texans bench to see anything that happened on the play since it was on the opposite side of the field.

Kaiser Toro
11-22-2005, 08:24 PM
I could be mistaken but it appeared to me that Andre was mad at Sammy Knight for kicking him in the head. The sideline exchange appeared to be nothing more than AJ explaining to Capers what happened as he headed to the bench (because Capers called him over to ask him). Yes, it was about as animated as you will ever see AJ but I'm not "sure" that the exchange included anything about Capers or any of the other coaches not "lighting up the officials." That seems to be a bit of a stretch. What I am sure about is that it was probably very difficult, if not impossible for the Texans bench to see anything that happened on the play since it was on the opposite side of the field.

It does not matter what the Texans bench saw, it matters what AJ felt. As you implied, to get AJ animated takes a lot. I have not been through this type of season as coach or player, but I could easily see how losing like this can begin take a toll on people as every action begets new meaning for an indivdual (not judging right vs wrong). In this circumstance AJ may have been turning a fissure into a fault line for certain camps internally.

Did not mean to be definitive on either take, but really wanted to state that either scenario is plausible.

aj.
11-22-2005, 08:40 PM
It does not matter what the Texans bench saw, it matters what AJ felt.

And I think it matters when our coaches became aware of it.

It would be kind of difficult for our coaches to "light up the officials" before AJ even got to the sideline to tell them what happened (assuming the coaches didn't see it happen - and it took a slo-mo replay for the rest of us to know what happened).

And how do we know that our coaches didn't have a few choice words with the officials after the fact?

I'm disagreeing with the absolute certianty that someone claimed that AJ was upset with the coaches for not sticking up for their players. AJ was obviously upset about what happened to him and after viewing the sideline exchange it appeared to me that Capers was hearing the details for the first time as AJ made his way to the bench - a couple minutes after it happened.

It just seemed like a needless stretch to further batter a coaching staff - a staff who won't be here in 7 weeks anyway - and assert that they don't stick up for their players.

Kaiser Toro
11-22-2005, 08:46 PM
And I think it matters when our coaches became aware of it.

It would be kind of difficult for our coaches to "light up the officials" before AJ even got to the sideline to tell them what happened (assuming the coaches didn't see it happen - and it took a slo-mo replay for the rest of us to know what happened).

And how do we know that our coaches didn't have a few choice words with the officials after the fact?

I'm disagreeing with the absolute certianty that someone claimed that AJ was upset with the coaches for not sticking up for their players. AJ was obviously upset about what happened to him and after viewing the sideline exchange it appeared to me that Capers was hearing the details for the first time as AJ made his way to the bench - a couple minutes after it happened.

It just seemed like a needless stretch to further batter a coaching staff - a staff who won't be here in 7 weeks anyway - and assert that they don't stick up for their players.


Well done, agree on your rebuttal.

GP
11-23-2005, 11:59 AM
AJ went into that game wanting to pop someone.

He was steaming, and I like to think that I "read" people pretty well. To me, his actions and his angry staring off into space on the sideline was a signal to McNair up in the luxury seats that the time for political correctness is over.

AJ comes from a program rich in football pride and excellence. Those kind of guys don't take this stuff lightly as if it's just another paycheck every Sunday.

Of all our talent, I'm afraid Aj is the most likely to leave.

Vinny
11-23-2005, 12:10 PM
It just seemed like a needless stretch to further batter a coaching staff - a staff who won't be here in 7 weeks anyway - and assert that they don't stick up for their players.I don't see it as a one event situation. He was manhandled a bit on the heavy side early in the game the week before too. I'm sure there are a lot of players placing blame somewhere but they are doing what they are told and shutting their traps. It has to be frustrating. To me it just points to more reasons why to shut down the dead man coaching routine, and deal with this bad team in a completely straight forward manner. I think that when companies keep leadership personnel in place (when everyone in the organization knows he is out the door) in a performance industry is a mistake.

Kaiser Toro
11-23-2005, 12:16 PM
It ain't cool being a jive turkey this close to Thanksgiving and all.

I have to come back to it again, McNair should say that they will be released by the end of the year. At the very least I feel that this will give the whole team something to rally against and actually may put a better prodcut on the field. If we do get smoked on Sunday I think you will see a statement that they are on five weeks notice.

Texans Horror
11-23-2005, 12:33 PM
I agree with you that the front office needs to speak directly to the team, players and coaches. They already know what's coming, to a certain degree. I can't think that the players expect Capers to be there next year, or that even Capers expects to be there himself. However, I think it would be a good showing from the front office. It would let the team know that they are all on the same field, sort to speak. My concern is that frustration will create needless injuries.

Texans Horror
11-23-2005, 01:22 PM
I'm still ticked about AJ's actions. He single-handedly killed two potential scoring drives. Granted, the potential was slim to none, but anything is better than nothing. This entire season is so frustrating, and we still have 6 to go...how sad.

Then you're going to love Dr. Z's comments on Houston in his power rankings:

In the first quarter the Chiefs' Sammy Knight gave wideout Andre Johnson a sneaky knee in the head and Johnson went off. He went after him twice, right smack in front of the referee. Naturally it cost his team 15 yards, and this was while it was still a game. I saw his sideline meeting with coach Dom Capers. Johnson was mad and yapping, Capers was trying to calm him down. Should have been the other way around. That's one of many, many problems.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/11/23/rankings.part3/index.html

WWJD
11-23-2005, 01:54 PM
I'm sure a field goal then would have made a big difference in the outcome of the game. RB gets 211 yards against our defense. They would have kicked our butt any way or fashion!

bobby 119C:brickwall


At that time I think the game was still somewhat close. But ultimately of course the Chiefs pulled away. I think I just presumed Brown would get a field goal if they hadn't penalized the Texans.

Runner
11-23-2005, 01:56 PM
I keep trying to obsess about one marginal act by a great character guy in 2 1/2 years, but I just can't do it.

Personally, I wish he would have smacked the guy who picked him up and drove him into the ground a couple of games ago. I guess he waited for the coaches to do something then, or maybe he expected one of the big lineman guys to step up for him. I didn't see any coach or teammate support on that one.

I guess he decided he needed to defend himself against cheap shots, since no one else will.

TexAntagonise
11-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Funny, I just watched it again and AJ isn't YELLING. Looks to me like he is telling the coach what happened. He does not go over and get in Capers face. Capers grabs him. HUMMMm

Runner
11-23-2005, 02:08 PM
Funny, I just watched it again and AJ isn't YELLING. Looks to me like he is telling the coach what happened. He does not go over and get in Capers face. Capers grabs him. HUMMMm

Hey! You need to try to obsess!

But you are correct - this thread's label is quite misleading.

mean mark8
11-23-2005, 02:51 PM
Then you're going to love Dr. Z's comments on Houston in his power rankings:

In the first quarter the Chiefs' Sammy Knight gave wideout Andre Johnson a sneaky knee in the head and Johnson went off. He went after him twice, right smack in front of the referee. Naturally it cost his team 15 yards, and this was while it was still a game. I saw his sideline meeting with coach Dom Capers. Johnson was mad and yapping, Capers was trying to calm him down. Should have been the other way around. That's one of many, many problems.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/11/23/rankings.part3/index.html

How much credit can you give this guy for anything, he has us at 2-8? Thanks for the mystery win but quit killing our shot at the overall #1 pick to hopefully be parlayed into a Hershel Walker type thing.

Bobo
11-23-2005, 04:56 PM
PS: Wouldn't it have been great if we had Tom Coughlin or someone for our HC? THey would have been up in AJs face, screaming and yelling, and getting some ACCOUNTABILITY! from the players. Remember how bad the Giants were? (#2 or 3 pick), and then they got a mean guy for a HC. Last year, everyone hated him, and people were being fined left and right.

And everybody wanted to fire him.

aj.
11-23-2005, 08:06 PM
When I can scroll through these threads and read "wouldn't it be great to have Tom Coughlin" (breakthrough season and all) and "Casserly is perhaps the best GM in football" in the span of a minute, I can say with confidence that this board has officially gone to hell.

Maybe some of these guys are "plants" by the admin, trying to inject some energy into this morass...