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View Full Version : Carr gets the Colts & Chiefs...Ragone should get the rest


humbleone
11-08-2005, 10:04 AM
What if we started getting Ragone ready to finish the season (6 games) starting with St. Louis?

He would get the Rams, Ravens, Titans, Arizona, Jax and then the 49ers. If he stinks it up... his trade value going into the draft next year is not really impacted (unless you believe there is some there now) but what if he can lead this team to a win or two (could happen IMO)...what would his value be then? The '06 draft is not deep in QB's so we should be able to get our "3" back and maybe even a "2" if he looked good.

The '06 draft is perfect for us in terms of depth at positions we need IMO and if we play our cards right (stock pile some draft choices in the 2-4 range) we really could upgrade our talent on the OL, LB, TE and Safety positions.

Just wishful thinking I know because our staff is still too much in denial to admit (1) this season was over before it started due to poor personnel and coaching decisions and (2) what is on the table is to get to work on turning things around for the new staff (insert prayer here) in '06.

TEXANS84
11-08-2005, 10:08 AM
Remember, Ragone is #2 on the depth chart. If Carr goes out, you'll more than likely see Banks coming in.

Coach C.
11-08-2005, 10:11 AM
Man I am sick of hearing about a #3 QB and fans wanting him to play. Ragone is not a good QB. He is inaccurate and does not have a very good arm. Add that to the fact that he is not mobile and you have a bad qb. He is the guy if everyone else goes down and we need someone to manage the game we call on him and hope he can find his helmet. Ragone should not see any parts of the field unless he wants to try and play ST.

Kaiser Toro
11-08-2005, 10:25 AM
This is a difficult one for me. I would like to see DC signed for the following years as many on this board would also. However, if we have such an awful line, then why would anyone want our QB to go through the continued mauling and not give our back ups a sniff at some playing time?

At this point I think the question needs to be asked, what are we playing for in the final eight games of the season?

wags
11-08-2005, 10:28 AM
At this point I think the question needs to be asked, what are we playing for in the final eight games of the season?

The players are playing for their jobs. Believe that, because we are going to have a new coach next year. So says Carnac.

bckey
11-08-2005, 10:30 AM
Ragone can't be worse than Tony Banks. Banks is terrible. We need to at least see Ragone at some point in the season when our win/loss record has reached a point where 7-9 is no longer obtainable. What would it hurt? We aren't going to the playoffs. Our current offense is most likely going to be scrapped in favor of our new coaches offense (please fire Capers) so it isn't like Carr needs to be in there to take a pounding.

infantrycak
11-08-2005, 10:44 AM
I don't like this idea generally, but IMO when we get down by 2 TD's or more going into the 4th Qtr Capers needs to do one of two things--either play with some desparation and quit the wussy game management approach, try some on-sides kicks, air it out, etc. or if he is going to plod the game away on the same game plan then put Ragone in to season him and spell Carr.

TexanBearkat
11-08-2005, 10:46 AM
Why play Ragone...I believe this is his last year on his contract and can't imagine him wanting to resign here or the Texans even wanting him back. I think at the end of this season get rid of Banks and Ragone and try to bring in a QB who can be Carr's backup but start if necessary.

Casserly has made a lot of bad draft picks but to me this was the worst one of all and it is not meant to disrespect Ragone. But a second year franchise with their unquestioned 'franchise QB' already in place drafting another QB in the 3rd round??

humbleone
11-08-2005, 10:53 AM
Man I am sick of hearing about a #3 QB and fans wanting him to play. Ragone is not a good QB. He is inaccurate and does not have a very good arm. Add that to the fact that he is not mobile and you have a bad qb. He is the guy if everyone else goes down and we need someone to manage the game we call on him and hope he can find his helmet. Ragone should not see any parts of the field unless he wants to try and play ST.

My point is strategic...not tactical. DC is a better QB than Ragone clearly. My point is that we invested a "3" in Ragone and if there is anyway we could get a "3" or higher for him in the '06 draft, a trade like that helps this team at this point more than him riding the bench or getting DC pounded more behind this OL does. BTW, if Ragone is as bad as you say he is then CC was stupid to give a "3" for him which may be your point but I for one would like to see the kid play some when other players have something to play for (their jobs) to see what he can do.

Coach C.
11-08-2005, 10:57 AM
I understand the Strategic point of it, I understood it when I made the post. The fact of the matter NFL teams do not play to see what happens, as Herm Edwards put it "We play to Win the game" That is the point of the NFL tomorrow and the past dont matter, it is all about who is winning now. And that is what this Team has to do. Everyone is playing for their job right now, putting Ragone in the mix may be the Fire Capers and Casserly's club diabolical plan to ensure that we do not win another game.

TEXANS84
11-08-2005, 11:12 AM
Here's SanFranChron's take on Carr:

CARR'S FUTURE

Houston QB David Carr is due an $8 million roster bonus after the season. The Texans will have to make a decision on the future of the player they chose with the first pick in their first draft, in 2002.

Most personnel people around the NFL still believe Carr has a future, but he has looked so awful with the Texans that a new coach -- and the team seems certain to make a change -- might want to start fresh with a new quarterback.

The problems, of course, hardly are all Carr's fault. He appeared to be making progress last year when Houston came within one victory of a .500 finish. But the horrendous lack of pass protection is wearing him down. In 49 games with the Texans, Carr has been sacked 170 times.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/23/SPGQFFCJ6N1.DTL&hw=David+Carr&sn=004&sc=524

yaboycm
11-08-2005, 11:16 AM
What if we started getting Ragone ready to finish the season (6 games) starting with St. Louis?

He would get the Rams, Ravens, Titans, Arizona, Jax and then the 49ers. If he stinks it up... his trade value going into the draft next year is not really impacted (unless you believe there is some there now) but what if he can lead this team to a win or two (could happen IMO)...what would his value be then? The '06 draft is not deep in QB's so we should be able to get our "3" back and maybe even a "2" if he looked good.

The '06 draft is perfect for us in terms of depth at positions we need IMO and if we play our cards right (stock pile some draft choices in the 2-4 range) we really could upgrade our talent on the OL, LB, TE and Safety positions.

Just wishful thinking I know because our staff is still too much in denial to admit (1) this season was over before it started due to poor personnel and coaching decisions and (2) what is on the table is to get to work on turning things around for the new staff (insert prayer here) in '06.

All of our quarterbacks suck

humbleone
11-08-2005, 11:17 AM
I guess we will have to disagree then on two points... first that it would be impossible to win any of our remaining games with Ragone and second that it would be smart to test him in conditions that might be favorable to improve his value as a trade.

As little as you obviously think of him, I would think anything that got him traded for something of value would interest you.

Coach C.
11-08-2005, 11:22 AM
Humble as hard as it is to trade in the NFL. Do you honestly expect to get anything over a 5th round pick for him because seriously I dont. Rohan Davey the NFLE MVP before him is sitting around on someones practice squad right now. I understand you want to see what the kid can do and you feel that with preparation he could beat maybe SF and Arizona, but if you have ever watched him practice and play, it is superb against 2nd and 3rd teams, but against any NFL teams first team he will get destroyed.

thegr8fan
11-08-2005, 01:05 PM
but if you have ever watched him practice and play, it is superb against 2nd and 3rd teams, but against any NFL teams first team he will get destroyed.- coach C

In 49 games with the Texans, Carr has been sacked 170 times.

were you talking about Ragone or Carr with your first remark Coach C?

I am all for starting Ragone. For different reasons than yours Humble. But all the Ragone would get embarressed proponents need to stop a second and ask themselves, what is happening right now on the field with the Texans?.

I don't see how it could hurt anything at all to put him in the game. What would it really do, make us lose a game. Heck we can do that with our without Ragone playing.

humbleone
11-08-2005, 01:33 PM
Humble as hard as it is to trade in the NFL. Do you honestly expect to get anything over a 5th round pick for him because seriously I dont. Rohan Davey the NFLE MVP before him is sitting around on someones practice squad right now. I understand you want to see what the kid can do and you feel that with preparation he could beat maybe SF and Arizona, but if you have ever watched him practice and play, it is superb against 2nd and 3rd teams, but against any NFL teams first team he will get destroyed.

I don't really know Coach C, you could very well be right but I would think that we could get someone to bite on an offer for a "4" at least if he looked good against Arizona/49ers etc... The way it looks now, it was yet another completed waisted "3" by CC which ticks me off. You are right though that I have not seen him practice or play enough to really know what he can or cannot do against NFL talent (even basement NFL talent). I thought the deal with him was though that he is a big kid, with a strong arm, who has improved his accuracy lately and gained a lot of confidence through the NFLE success.

Anyway, just the frustration of this year that I am forced to think about this stuff vs the game this week (oh no not the Colts again).

BigBull17
11-08-2005, 02:46 PM
were you talking about Ragone or Carr with your first remark Coach C?

I am all for starting Ragone. For different reasons than yours Humble. But all the Ragone would get embarressed proponents need to stop a second and ask themselves, what is happening right now on the field with the Texans?.

I don't see how it could hurt anything at all to put him in the game. What would it really do, make us lose a game. Heck we can do that with our without Ragone playing.
Does anybody remember when Ragone started for us? He was horrible.

humbleone
11-08-2005, 03:11 PM
Does anybody remember when Ragone started for us? He was horrible.

Yes he was and so was the back in the game (Hollings). Ragone may not be NFL material but in all fairness to the kid he really has not had much of a chance to show what he can do yet (which I agree may be nothing btw).

U4ikrob
11-08-2005, 03:42 PM
Humble as hard as it is to trade in the NFL. Do you honestly expect to get anything over a 5th round pick for him because seriously I dont. Rohan Davey the NFLE MVP before him is sitting around on someones practice squad right now. I understand you want to see what the kid can do and you feel that with preparation he could beat maybe SF and Arizona, but if you have ever watched him practice and play, it is superb against 2nd and 3rd teams, but against any NFL teams first team he will get destroyed.

Actualy ive watched Ragone since hes been here and feel much like some others he needs a legitimate shot at some playing time with the starters to see where he really does measure up. I watched All 3 QB's in the Off-season this year esp and durign Training Camp. Ragone isnt nearly as bad as you and others make him out to be. The kids barely gotten a whiff of playing time and your allready consigning him to bench duty because of a poor showing when he was shoved from Red shirt 3rd string to starter in one week when Banks and Carr both went down. WoW - lets see how most rookie QB's do? - They make mistakes. But the man has improved quite a bit since then IMO and has merited some REAL playing time. His stats in NFLE were not just good - they were off the charts and to come back here and get bench time I think is a major oversite on this staff.

Unfortunately I dont think this staff has clue one about player development and there are plenty of those examples all over the team. IMO believe Ragone is one of those whom given an opportunity will produce, but I dont think the staff here wants him to succeed.

Rohan Davey - yea he fell off - but that could be a case of himself not wantign to play better and improve too. There are other starters in this league whom played in NFLE too. Some have even won a SB.

infantrycak
11-08-2005, 03:59 PM
Yes he was and so was the back in the game (Hollings). Ragone may not be NFL material but in all fairness to the kid he really has not had much of a chance to show what he can do yet (which I agree may be nothing btw).

If you just looked at the stats, yes, both looked horrible. JMO, but it looked to me like an already bad OL decided they weren't playing for a couple of 3rd stringers (assuming what they normally do is play). At one point in the Tampa game, Hollings got hit by a DLmen in the backfield on 6 plays in a row. LT doesn't look good when that happens--for reference see the Philly and Denver games this year for LT.

MorKnolle
11-08-2005, 04:05 PM
I have seen a lot of Dave Ragone and I can tell you that he would not help this team at all by playing. He gets a chance to show himself four times a week in practice not to mention training camps and preseason and he is not the best choice for QB. He is a reasonably solid 2nd-3rd option at QB but he is not starter material and in no way would be an improvement over David Carr. The absolute only reason to put him in would be to prevent Carr from getting hurt, so I wouldn't overly object if we put him in the end of a game where the outcome has clearly been decided (i.e. the end of the Colts or Seahawks games earlier this year), but I also see why they would want to leave Carr in those times to try and get some kind of positive plays and/or rhythm to carry over to the next game.

U4ikrob
11-08-2005, 04:15 PM
I have seen a lot of Dave Ragone and I can tell you that he would not help this team at all by playing. He gets a chance to show himself four times a week in practice not to mention training camps and preseason and he is not the best choice for QB. He is a reasonably solid 2nd-3rd option at QB but he is not starter material and in no way would be an improvement over David Carr. The absolute only reason to put him in would be to prevent Carr from getting hurt, so I wouldn't overly object if we put him in the end of a game where the outcome has clearly been decided (i.e. the end of the Colts or Seahawks games earlier this year), but I also see why they would want to leave Carr in those times to try and get some kind of positive plays and/or rhythm to carry over to the next game.

He gets a chance 4 times a week? IMO Not at any of the practices I watched or drills he ran during the TC sessions. When I was tehre he usually got one snap out of every 5 with the starters and sometimes not that many depending on the formation. They rotated Carr and Banks in regularly with the starters and every now and then he would get to run a play and then go over and talk with Palmer. He got to throw on timing drills with the receivers every third throw. Kind of hard to be consistent when you get less reps than the laundry boy IMO.

CErtainly think he should be getting mop up duties in blowout games - Creating a Rhythm for the next game? - IMO we havent had a rhythm on offense this season or for that matter since just after the middle part of last season when the O-line started regressing and playcalling went to ultra conservative.

humbleone
11-08-2005, 04:46 PM
If you just looked at the stats, yes, both looked horrible. JMO, but it looked to me like an already bad OL decided they weren't playing for a couple of 3rd stringers (assuming what they normally do is play). At one point in the Tampa game, Hollings got hit by a DLmen in the backfield on 6 plays in a row. LT doesn't look good when that happens--for reference see the Philly and Denver games this year for LT.

Good point.