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grandslam1
11-07-2005, 04:19 AM
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Carr 22/30 219 1 0


thats not bad but there was that one fumble...

thegr8fan
11-07-2005, 08:47 AM
the only stat that matters is the win lose ratio. With David Carr we are about 1-13 right now.

chuckm
11-07-2005, 09:24 AM
the only stat that matters is the win lose ratio. With David Carr we are about 1-13 right now.

and if we had Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas for that 14 game stretch we'd be what? 13 - 1?

thegr8fan
11-07-2005, 09:28 AM
and if we had Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas for that 14 game stretch we'd be what? 13 - 1? no if we had them we would be 14-0.

Now if we had say, Brady, Warner, Young, McNabb, we would be 13-1.

If we simply had Tony Banks we would probably be 7-7.

BUT we had Carr, so we are 1-13. Don't have to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game with that statement, you just have to look at the FACTS.

you starting to get the picture yet?

chuckm
11-07-2005, 09:45 AM
you starting to get the picture yet?

after reading that it is QUITE clear .... hook em

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 09:46 AM
FACTS?!?! Look at the game, gets maybe half a second in the pocket before he has to scramble and then when that happens only half the field is available to throw to. Can you imagine if he tried to throw back across the field on a scramble what all the Carr haters would be saying about that?!?! Half the time when he does get the ball to a receiver, it gets dropped!

BigBull17
11-07-2005, 09:58 AM
no if we had them we would be 14-0.

Now if we had say, Brady, Warner, Young, McNabb, we would be 13-1.

If we simply had Tony Banks we would probably be 7-7.

BUT we had Carr, so we are 1-13. Don't have to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game with that statement, you just have to look at the FACTS.

you starting to get the picture yet?
Did you ever see the Rams with Tony Banks? He was absolutly horrid in LA - St louis. Tom Brady would no longer be the prettyboy of the NFl cause he would have no teeth. Mike or Marcus Vick would get destroyed beh9nd our joke of an O line. Carr has his doh moments but he looked really good yesterday and he gets slammed.

chuckm
11-07-2005, 10:00 AM
no if we had them we would be 14-0.

Now if we had say, Brady, Warner, Young, McNabb, we would be 13-1.

If we simply had Tony Banks we would probably be 7-7.

BUT we had Carr, so we are 1-13. Don't have to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game with that statement, you just have to look at the FACTS.

you starting to get the picture yet?


this post falls under the heading of "if you give a person enough rope, they'll hang themselves"

HardKnockTexan
11-07-2005, 10:33 AM
But already, a new target is D.D. LMAO. Flame the Texans board is finally hit bottom. No one is left too Flame. Now I guess they start at the top and go down the list again. As for me and a few others, this game shows were not far from being back on track, last 3 games were closer to the team's capabilities. I see improvement. Even some of the pink soap boys are getting worried that success is just around the corner. Got to Love those Texans.. :texflag:

If you mean by worried that I'm preying every week that we win.. then yeah, I'm getting worried. Seriously, if Capers can somehow show me a completley different team than what I've seen the first half of the season then I might not throw up if McNair decides to keep Capers. I believe that a coaching change is needed but it cant just be some new guy. McNair needs to eye his target and go get him. Settling for some other head coach just because everyone's calling for Caper's head would be hurting the team far more than helping it.

Bear
11-07-2005, 02:38 PM
FACTS?!?! Look at the game, gets maybe half a second in the pocket before he has to scramble and then when that happens only half the field is available to throw to.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Except for 1 all-out-blitz that I noticed, Carr had 3 to 4 seconds each time. That is average for the NFL.

Can you imagine if he tried to throw back across the field on a scramble what all the Carr haters would be saying about that?!?!

You are right, it would be better for Carr to pump fake and either have the ball knocked out for another fumble or just get sacked.

Half the time when he does get the ball to a receiver, it gets dropped!

Half the time? My eyes aren't as good as they once were but I think you are stretching the truth just a tad here...

ThaShark316
11-07-2005, 02:44 PM
no if we had them we would be 14-0.

Now if we had say, Brady, Warner, Young, McNabb, we would be 13-1.

If we simply had Tony Banks we would probably be 7-7.

BUT we had Carr, so we are 1-13. Don't have to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game with that statement, you just have to look at the FACTS.

you starting to get the picture yet?


OMG!!! I didn't know Terrell Owens was apart of msg board! Can you come to the Texans mr. Owens!?!?!?!?!?

coughCLOWNcough

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 02:45 PM
no if we had them we would be 14-0.

Now if we had say, Brady, Warner, Young, McNabb, we would be 13-1.

If we simply had Tony Banks we would probably be 7-7.

BUT we had Carr, so we are 1-13. Don't have to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game with that statement, you just have to look at the FACTS.

you starting to get the picture yet?

I sincerely hope you're kidding with this one. If you think for one second that we'd be better with Tony Banks then you have no business watching football. Nothing against Banks, but Carr is so much better of a QB.

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 02:54 PM
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Except for 1 all-out-blitz that I noticed, Carr had 3 to 4 seconds each time. That is average for the NFL.

For one game, Carr had time and completed 73% of his passes and threw for 219 while hitting mostly short passes bc the game plan has to be set up that way do to the previous history of time allowed in the pocket. Had 219 yards and would have been up to 260 if Bradford would have held on to the ball. 250 isn't great but would be above average for the NFL.



You are right, it would be better for Carr to pump fake and either have the ball knocked out for another fumble or just get sacked.
See you win either way, either an interception or a fumble.




Half the time? My eyes aren't as good as they once were but I think you are stretching the truth just a tad here...

Ok, maybe stretching the truth because maybe it only feels that way. but since you brought up NFL averages, I'm pretty sure they drop more than the average NFL receivers. And that includes Andre bc every now and then he gets a bad case of the drops!

infantrycak
11-07-2005, 03:25 PM
Except for 1 all-out-blitz that I noticed, Carr had 3 to 4 seconds each time. That is average for the NFL.

Sorry, but that is simply factually incorrect. I'll post a passing game break down in a little while, but you can watch the game clock and Carr had the ball in the air in 2 seconds or under on the vast majority of plays. Even on many of those plays you can see the protection breaking down. Anything past 2 seconds is perilous. This pass blocking is "looking better" because the O has been limited to 1 or 2 read plays where Carr drops and throws. The pass protection is still far, far below NFL average.

El Tejano
11-07-2005, 03:32 PM
He did real well when the offense was spread out though.

Bear
11-07-2005, 04:22 PM
Sorry, but that is simply factually incorrect. I'll post a passing game break down in a little while, but you can watch the game clock and Carr had the ball in the air in 2 seconds or under on the vast majority of plays.

I would like to see your breakdown on exactly how long he had each pass. How do you get the documentation? I mean, I didn't have a stop-watch for every play; I'm only going by what I saw.

And please don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the O-Line nor am I saying Carr is the worst QB ever. Neither are good under our current system.

uhcougar08
11-07-2005, 04:25 PM
I bet you, if we had Brett Farve, we would be undefeated!!!!:yap

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 04:42 PM
FACTS?!?! Look at the game, gets maybe half a second in the pocket before he has to scramble and then when that happens only half the field is available to throw to. Can you imagine if he tried to throw back across the field on a scramble what all the Carr haters would be saying about that?!?! Half the time when he does get the ball to a receiver, it gets dropped!

no, I was at the game yesterday, and Carr more than a few times had about 3-5 seconds to read and make a throw, and he did neither. Also, Carr I think twice yesterday ran outside the tackles and could've thrown the ball away for incompletions, but instead he fell to the ground and took the sack. He's just very shellshocked, and it's a damn shame. He really had great potential, but now.......

Double Barrel
11-07-2005, 05:00 PM
As for me and a few others, this game shows were not far from being back on track, last 3 games were closer to the team's capabilities. I see improvement.

I agree. Wish we had seen more of yesterday's team during the first six games, though.

Hopefully your "not far" is next week instead of next year.

Even some of the pink soap boys are getting worried that success is just around the corner.

If you define "just around the corner" as next year under a new coaching staff, I'd agree 100%! ;)

Seriously, though, I was delusional enough to buy into success (defined as 8-8 or anything better than 7-9) happening this season.

Honestly, caddy, and I mean this question with all due respect: how long would you give Coach Capers before deciding to let him go? I mean, how many losing seasons? (just curious where your threshold of support is for the coach, that's all. Not a trick question or anything)

Got to Love those Texans.. :texflag:

Always and forever!! Even when they lose. :redtowel: :fans:

infantrycak
11-07-2005, 05:02 PM
I would like to see your breakdown on exactly how long he had each pass. How do you get the documentation? I mean, I didn't have a stop-watch for every play; I'm only going by what I saw.

And please don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the O-Line nor am I saying Carr is the worst QB ever. Neither are good under our current system.

The break down, FWIW, will be up shortly. The times come from the game clock. I do not try to break it down into less than 1 second increments. Somewhere there may be a stat for average QB time, but the real comparison is top 10 O's because that is what we want right? Looking at the top 10 O's you will also see them have plays under 2 seconds, but the % is less. The big difference is they also have successful plays with 3+ and 4+ seconds which percentagewise just doesn't happen for the Texans.

SESupergenius
11-07-2005, 05:08 PM
Most of Carrs throws have been only 1 or 2 option plays. We do not run an offense that uses 5 recievers of any type. We just don't run a West-Coast style offense. It's options are very limited. For the most part they are boot legs with only 2 options or they are 10 yard sideline throws. We did see a few waggles by Johnson with the long crossing route, but for the most part we have cut back the time to pass to less than 3 seconds.

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 06:00 PM
Worry about Leftwich.....

Leftwich 19/25 218-yds 1-td 0-ints

Carr 22/30 219-yds 1-td 0-ints

Looks very similar to me.

Leftwich really had great potential, but now.................:rolleyes:

I'll agree on one thing he is shellshocked. So is Fred Taylor, the NFL's equivalent of the NBA's Grant Hill. Great potential but cannot stay healthy.

Fred Taylor shellshocked? he had 160+ last week. How did DD do yesterday? how about last week versus the FREAKING BROWNS?

looks very similar to you? how many fumbles did Carr have yesterday? I'll tell you: THREE. How many did Leftwich have? hmmm.... I can't remember, why don't you tell me. didn't include that stat, did you? what about the stat for taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away?

Right now, this very instant, Leftwich is the better QB. never mind the fact that Carr is 1 year his senior or anything, right?

The difference between Leftwich and Carr is that while both men went into the lockerroom at halftime to analyze their performances, only one of them came out in the 2nd half and made the adjustments necessary to lead his team to victory. Which QB went 11/11 for 165 yards and a PERFECT QB rating in the 2nd half?

I did not come to this board to bash, see my other posts. I came to give props and talk legitimate football talk. you want to get into this who's better crap, though, I'll gladly take you to school. How's that 5 Year plan coming?

SESupergenius
11-07-2005, 06:02 PM
That's just it, Carr had to start a few grades below Leftwhich and still does very well. When going head to head, how does Carr and Leftwhich compare?

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 06:09 PM
That's just it, Carr had to start a few grades below Leftwhich and still does very well. When going head to head, how does Carr and Leftwhich compare?

a football game is not played 1 on 1, but I believe carr leads 2 to 1, but there was a forth game played together where leftwich left early, i think while the game was tied or something.

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 06:10 PM
That's just it, Carr had to start a few grades below Leftwhich and still does very well.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you explain?

SESupergenius
11-07-2005, 06:15 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you explain?
Both QB's did not start out on an equal basis. Honestly, do you think Leftwhich would be better than Carr if he were on the Texans. Would Carr be better than Leftwhich if he were on the Jags?

It is a team game so keep it at that.

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 06:17 PM
Both QB's did not start out on an equal basis. Honestly, do you think Leftwhich would be better than Carr if he were on the Texans. Would Carr be better than Leftwhich if he were on the Jags?

It is a team game so keep it at that.

Ok, I understand now. Yes, I agree with you, Carr would thrive in just about any other place, while Leftwich would be nowhere near where he is now if he was in Houston. Sorry, just my opinion

SESupergenius
11-07-2005, 06:29 PM
We are what we are. 1-7, it's the worst record in the league, the worst team in the league.

It is what it is, there are no excuses.

Bull Pen 1
11-07-2005, 08:26 PM
I just don't understand why Carr can't remember to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack and risking a fumble, as he did yesterday. I can't believe you said Carr did the right thing by taking a sack to keep the clock running.

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 08:31 PM
Leftwich was terrible in the first half(he couldn't have hit the ocean from the beach). He did better in the 2nd half . Carr still has(not had) potential. Don't come over here saying he had potential. He still does. I was pointing out they had similar statistics for the game.



He does make terrible decisions and on that 1 sack right before the half I wanted him to throw it away but he took the sack for a minimal loss and kept the clock going. If he throws it away it would have stopped the clock and given the Jags more time to work with for the 2 minute drill. So I thought he made the right decision. He doesn't make the best decisions in the NFL but if he could spend more time to concentrate on the game and not run for his life, his decisions just might get better.


Maybe shellshocked was the wrong term maybe M*A*S*H unit.Face it Taylor is injury prone. Davis is also but he is a 4th round draft pick not a 1st rounder like Taylor was and Davis is really a situational back.


Leftwich was terrible in the 1st half? he was 8/14, while david Carr was 9/14. so was David Carr TERRIBLE too or do you want to retract that statement? Leftwich did "better" in the 2nd half? he was PERFECT! that is much more than "better" give credit where credit is due, I have with you guys throughout my posts. As far as Carr's potentional, I said he HAD potential because he does not have nearly the potential that he had before, and he will NEVER realize the full potential he once had. I'm sure Carr and his fans wish they could turn back time, but they can't, and that's a fact. As far as your analysis of the sack right before the end of the half, I respect your opinion, but you CANNOT watch that play and tell me that Carr did that on purpose to keep the clock running. He was running for his live, and slid down before he had his head taken off. It was not him thinking smart, it was him not getting killed.

Fred Taylor:

MASH unit? Hardly. last year, Fred did not start week 15, ending his 46 game start streak, THIRD LONGEST AMONG ACTIVE RUNNING BACKS AT THE TIME.
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=25935

pretty much debunks your MASH theory. Davis is a situational back? Nada. how do I know more about your team than you do? DD was DRAFTED to be a third down back, but pick up any cage-liner in Houston and you'll see the sportswriters DROOLING over Davis's evolution into an everydown back. If he's a situational back, why does he have the majority of carries for your team? look up the defination of situational back please.

so lets see....
proved you wrong about Leftwich being "horrible" and "couldn't hit the ocean from the beach" b/c he hit just 1 less pass in the half than david did. so either they both "couldn't hit the ocean from the beach" or you're just wrong.

Fred taylor: proved you wrong again, 46 consectutive starts for 3rd longest among active backs? Taylor played in more consectutive games than DD has been in the league. yep, sounds like a mash unit to me. Injury prone? not since you guys failed the 1st time at "Support your NFL Franchise 101"

DD situational back? negative. every down back for you guys, thats why he has the majority of the carries, right?

Runner
11-07-2005, 08:35 PM
0/3 Brando, sorry, schooled again.

Man, quit patting yourself on the back. It just about obliterates the rest of your discourse even when you make good points.

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 08:40 PM
Man, quit patting yourself on the back. It just about obliterates the rest of your discourse even when you make good points.

meh, whatever. If he's gonna take shots at things that he obviously has no clue about (FT's start streak, BL being off target even though he was about atthe same comp % as Carr 1st half) then I think it can be said. To each his own, I guess. The point of my post still gets through, and like you said, I make good points, so whatever. I see where you are coming from though, and I understand. I will remove it.

Runner
11-07-2005, 08:42 PM
meh, whatever. If he's gonna take shots at things that he obviously has no clue about (FT's start streak, BL being off target even though he was about atthe same comp % as Carr 1st half) then I think it can be said. To each his own, I guess. The point of my post still gets through, and like you said, I make good points, so whatever. I see where you are coming from though, and I understand. I will remove it.

Cool. I was trying to be constructive, I'm not a big flamer. That just takes down the board.

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 08:43 PM
Well, Davis will be a situational back when Bush gets here! (can't believe I'm saying that!):embarrass

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 08:47 PM
One of the top 2 picks could be VERY helpful to the texans. They're going to be very valuable, and you could trade down and get some serious O-Line help. with a solid O-Line, I can really see this team rebounding quickly.

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 08:57 PM
From all the reports there should be alot of good O lineman in the draft this year. The Texans O line was actually playing decently last week and the first half this week til Hodgdon got hurt and the Texans had to revert to one of the trial lines that started the season and we all know how thats gone. If Hodgdon can get back in there, the rest of the guys are in better spots for their abilities and Carr is not always running for his life. Problem is no depth for when someone does get hurt now.

Lucky
11-07-2005, 08:59 PM
...it's a damn shame. He really had great potential, but now.......
And if a WR makes a play on the ball, Carr may have beaten the Jags...again.

BTW, great job by your OC in the 2nd half.

Evans Fan
11-07-2005, 09:02 PM
Not bad but andre has to come on more than he has

kevinjagsfan
11-07-2005, 09:05 PM
True about the WR. it really was a tough break, but you know, it goes your way sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Parity a guess.

Thanks about the OC. if only we can call plays like that for 60 minutes. we may have to if Fred can't go tomorrow. What about the texan's injuries? I remember that one of your ST'ers went down close to the NEZ where I sit, and he was down for a while, they started to bring the stretcher out from the tunnel. After that, I saw 2 other players getting carted to the locker room from the sidelines, and I think that there may have been 1 other injury timeout. any word yet? JDR is pretty tight lipped with us, we really don't know until the injury report comes out wednesday.

Evans Fan
11-07-2005, 09:13 PM
Jags will have to be a better than they are if they want a shot at the postseason granted buffalo will have to have a miricale to make it in to the post season but willis moulds and Holcomb can make it happen