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View Full Version : Lets see the blame Carr fans on this one


Goldeagle
11-06-2005, 02:57 PM
Nice catch Bradford, way to keep my belief that we cant win when it matters!


But I am sure it was David Carrs fault

the wonger need food
11-06-2005, 02:59 PM
Carr had plenty of time and opportunities to make some plays today. It should not have come down to the last play of the game. He played poorly again, but by his current standards it was a career day.

GP
11-06-2005, 02:59 PM
He had a man open (AJ?) for a sure first down, and he could have ran out of bounds to stop the clock.

I am not blaming Carr for going deep. It was a VERY nice pass, and that's Carr's call IMO.

Bradford scored a TD earlier, and he dropped an easy one later. That's been his story from the very beginning. No surprise to me, nor should it be to anyone else.

belars44
11-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Spin it how you want, the play before that Carr looked like the first year QB he resmbles every Sunday. And, AJ was also open on the play, most experienced QB's would have seen that, Carr never gave a look, locked onto the one target, gonna score, get close, or walk away the same 1-7 team they were before this game started. Carr blows, plain and simple, is he the only problem? Nope. Is he the answer though? ABSOLUTELY not........

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:03 PM
Carr had plenty of time and opportunities to make some plays today. It should not have come down to the last play of the game. He played poorly again, but by his current standards it was a career day.

What ever. He played poorly. By whos standard. You must not have been watchong the same game as the rest of us. I dont even like talking to you haters anymore, because yall atre gunna say carr played bad no matter what.

LBC_Justin
11-06-2005, 03:05 PM
Carr had plenty of time and opportunities to make some plays today. It should not have come down to the last play of the game. He played poorly again, but by his current standards it was a career day.
Wonger are you new to the game of football? Or did you not watch the game? Carr played pretty good today, not spectacular but good.. You just must not like the guy, because if you want a change at the QB position todays game gave you no fuel for that fire.

The bottom line is our Defense has trouble causing turn overs and pressuring the QB. They had a decent first half but unfortunately there are 4 quarters not 2.

Napa Auto Parts
11-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Nice catch Bradford, way to keep my belief that we cant win when it matters!


But I am sure it was David Carrs fault


yes it was it gave us all the momentum in the game breaking all those tackles for a score it even made david look good and a 7-0 lead but corey cant help it if he gets the ball in double coverage like the last play that Carr totally Blew when the 1st down was wide open.

LBC_Justin
11-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Spin it how you want, the play before that Carr looked like the first year QB he resmbles every Sunday. And, AJ was also open on the play, most experienced QB's would have seen that, Carr never gave a look, locked onto the one target, gonna score, get close, or walk away the same 1-7 team they were before this game started. Carr blows, plain and simple, is he the only problem? Nope. Is he the answer though? ABSOLUTELY not........
And if Bradford makes that catch. Which he should of suddenly Carr is a hero.

Bradford sucks. Carr did what was needed to win the game today. Bradford blew it.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Spin it how you want, the play before that Carr looked like the first year QB he resmbles every Sunday. And, AJ was also open on the play, most experienced QB's would have seen that, Carr never gave a look, locked onto the one target, gonna score, get close, or walk away the same 1-7 team they were before this game started. Carr blows, plain and simple, is he the only problem? Nope. Is he the answer though? ABSOLUTELY not........

How in the **** can you blame carr foe a dropped pass. This has to be the stupidest bunch of posters I have ever seen. As a QB you have progressions, and if you look at your first read and hes open for the first down... he gets the ball. Carr doenst have the time to worry about which open guy to throw it to. He made a good decision and the WR did nmot execute.

bigcarlos
11-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Nice catch Bradford, way to keep my belief that we cant win when it matters!


But I am sure it was David Carrs fault
Had AJ open, and should of not taken that sack.:challenge

SESupergenius
11-06-2005, 03:07 PM
Wow I can't believe these folks. Carr lays it right in Bradfords hands for a huge gain in yardage and still it's Carrs fault. He throws for over 200 yards against a tough Jag defense, doesn't throw an INT and the game is his fault.

No one is going to take you seriously if you keep this Carr bashing, you are now just on your own biased agenda without any regard to facts.

the wonger need food
11-06-2005, 03:07 PM
What ever. He played poorly. By whos standard. You must not have been watchong the same game as the rest of us. I dont even like talking to you haters anymore, because yall atre gunna say carr played bad no matter what.

By a typical NFL quarterback's standards. Leftwich was absolutely horrible and still ended up with numbers as good as Carr's while leading his team to a victory.

This guy is not a rookie anymore and everyone needs to stop treating him like one. He made the same stupid mistakes he always makes and led his team to another loss. That's 12 out of his last 16.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:09 PM
yes it was it gave us all the momentum in the game breaking all those tackles for a score it even made david look good and a 7-0 lead but corey cant help it if he gets the ball in double coverage like the last play that Carr totally Blew when the 1st down was wide open.

Double coverage??? Who cares about double coverage. If all 11 guys are covering Bradford and hes in front of all of them, then he should make the catch. The ball hits your hands, then you bring it in. If Badford had caught the ball then it would have bee. O what a great throw by Carr. He put it right on the money, but we blame him for a drop. WOW.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:11 PM
By a typical NFL quarterback's standards. Leftwich was absolutely horrible and still ended up with numbers as good as Carr's while leading his team to a victory.

This guy is not a rookie anymore and everyone needs to stop treating him like one. He made the same stupid mistakes he always makes and led his team to another loss. That's 12 out of his last 16.

How many times did Leftwitch get sacked. How many times was he pressured. How many throws did he have to make on the run. Watch the game not the play by play stats. IF Carr had the protection or the running game that Leftwitch had then your assement might have a point.

the wonger need food
11-06-2005, 03:11 PM
Wonger are you new to the game of football? Or did you not watch the game? Carr played pretty good today, not spectacular but good.. You just must not like the guy, because if you want a change at the QB position todays game gave you no fuel for that fire.

Am I new to the game of football... hardly.

Carr made the same stupid mistakes he has since he was a rookie. Runs into sacks, fumbles, misses open receivers. etc. Barely over 200 yards and 1 TD is a below-average performance by NFL standards. By Carr apologist standards it's a career day.

TexansJunkE
11-06-2005, 03:12 PM
how is it Carr's fault when Bradford dropped the pass that was laiyed right in his hands. Call me crazy, but he should have caught that ball. Good game Carr. It's a shame there aren't enough playmaker's............. or guys that do their jobs out there to help.

SESupergenius
11-06-2005, 03:12 PM
You blame Carr for putting the ball in the hands of the reciever??? hmmm ok. How about this, we just don't have play makers. If Carr can't rely on a WR to make a catch, then there is no reason for the WR to be on the field. Should Johnson be sat for not finishing his route a couple of plays earilier?

Whatever.

belars44
11-06-2005, 03:13 PM
How do we make these "ludicrous accusations?"

We are 1-7.......this is year 4........good leaders (like Carr is claimed to be by so many) find a way to get the W in situations just like ours........that last drop by Bradford was horrible and not Carr's "fault" as it was a nice pass.......but Carr made many more mistakes (YET AGAIN) throughout the game that easily outweigh the positives he might have shown glimpses of.

And you are gonna defend him by saying he made one good pass at the end of the game.....and to the most inconsistent receiver we've had since day 1?

Jags&Dawgs
11-06-2005, 03:13 PM
Guys, I can't say enough that you guys are the second hardest team to play next to the Colts Good game Texans.

TexSon
11-06-2005, 03:16 PM
...good leaders (like Carr is claimed to be by so many) find a way to get the W in situations just like ours....
Really, like Brett Favre for instance?

V Man
11-06-2005, 03:18 PM
We are 1-7.......this is year 4........good leaders (like Carr is claimed to be by so many) find a way to get the W in situations just like ours........that last drop by Bradford was horrible and not Carr's "fault" as it was a nice pass.......but Carr made many more mistakes (YET AGAIN) throughout the game that easily outweigh the positives he might have shown glimpses of.



Took the words out of my mouth.

Can't blame Carr for the last play. But he stills seems to refuse to throw the ball away when he is outside the pocket. I appreciate him trying to make a play, but how many sacks does he have to take hanging onto the ball to realize that throwing it away is not a bad play.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:18 PM
How do we make these "ludicrous accusations?"

We are 1-7.......this is year 4........good leaders (like Carr is claimed to be by so many) find a way to get the W in situations just like ours........that last drop by Bradford was horrible and not Carr's "fault" as it was a nice pass.......but Carr made many more mistakes (YET AGAIN) throughout the game that easily outweigh the positives he might have shown glimpses of.

And you are gonna defend him by saying he made one good pass at the end of the game.....and to the most inconsistent receiver we've had since day 1?

Yes I will. I will defend him because he made a good decision. This is the NFL. You cant have flawless games. He made mistakes. But he found a way to help his team win, but Badford found a way for them to lose.

run-david-run
11-06-2005, 03:19 PM
How do we make these "ludicrous accusations?"

We are 1-7.......this is year 4........good leaders (like Carr is claimed to be by so many) find a way to get the W in situations just like ours........that last drop by Bradford was horrible and not Carr's "fault" as it was a nice pass.......but Carr made many more mistakes (YET AGAIN) throughout the game that easily outweigh the positives he might have shown glimpses of.

And you are gonna defend him by saying he made one good pass at the end of the game.....and to the most inconsistent receiver we've had since day 1?

I guess that putting a perfect deep pass right on the numbers in the 4th quarter on 4th and long does not count as leadership? All the qb can do is throw the ball, he cant control whether the wr breaks 4 tackles and scores or drops a catchable pass in clutch time... :brickwall :brickwall

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:19 PM
Took the words out of my mouth.

Can't blame Carr for the last play. But he stills seems to refuse to throw the ball away when he is outside the pocket. I appreciate him trying to make a play, but how many sacks does he have to take hanging onto the ball to realize that throwing it away is not a bad play.

Just as long as it will take for us to get an o-line that doesnt force him to throw it away so often.

Buffi2
11-06-2005, 03:21 PM
We are 1-7.......this is year 4........

Exactly! Who did what poorly or who made what mistakes is a discussion we shouldn't even be having at this point in the franchise. After 4 years, I don't even like to say anyone played better than they did 5 weeks ago - that shouldn't even matter. Unfortunately, as we seem to be going backwards to pre-first year abilities - mistakes and blame is what we have left. The bottom line is that we shouldn't have lost this game period. It shouldn't have come down to one make or break play. There is enough blame to go around - we don't have to focus on Carr especially since it appears that Carr is going to be with us next year no matter what. Let us just hope that a new coaching staff will make Carr better - forget better - NFL caliber would be nice.

run-david-run
11-06-2005, 03:21 PM
he also lead the charge downfield, was perfect throwing the ball in the 3rd quarter and put the team in a position to comeback in the 4th quarter, not much he can do about bradford dropping one. By the way, if bradford is so innconsitent and untrustworthy, why is he out there on 4th down? This is a coaching problem, not a quarterback problem.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 03:23 PM
he also lead the charge downfield, was perfect throwing the ball in the 3rd quarter and put the team in a position to comeback in the 4th quarter, not much he can do about bradford dropping one. By the way, if bradford is so innconsitent and untrustworthy, why is he out there on 4th down? This is a coaching problem, not a quarterback problem.

Thank you so much. What a wonderful post.

the wonger need food
11-06-2005, 03:25 PM
he also lead the charge downfield, was perfect throwing the ball in the 3rd quarter and put the team in a position to comeback in the 4th quarter, not much he can do about bradford dropping one. By the way, if bradford is so innconsitent and untrustworthy, why is he out there on 4th down? This is a coaching problem, not a quarterback problem.

He led his team to another loss. He has led his team to 4 wins in the last 16 games. That's really the bottom line.

V Man
11-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Just as long as it will take for us to get an o-line that doesnt force him to throw it away so often.

We had 6 sacks today. How many do you blame on the O-line (3). And most of those I would put on the Coaches for putting Wand at LT after Hodgeson injury instead of LG and leaving Pitts where he has had some success lately. Wand has already proven last year and these preseason he can't handle the speed off the end, but he is big and strong enough to handle a DT on the inside.

1st sack goes to Morency pitful blitz pick up.

Other 2, go to Carr. And one of them he even saw the DB coming up. He could have just tossed it away, but he slide ONE yard behind the line, so it counts as a sack.

V Man
11-06-2005, 03:27 PM
We are 1-7.......this is year 4........

Exactly! Who did what poorly or who made what mistakes is a discussion we shouldn't even be having at this point in the franchise. After 4 years, I don't even like to say anyone played better than they did 5 weeks ago - that shouldn't even matter. Unfortunately, as we seem to be going backwards to pre-first year abilities - mistakes and blame is what we have left. The bottom line is that we shouldn't have lost this game period. It shouldn't have come down to one make or break play. There is enough blame to go around - we don't have to focus on Carr especially since it appears that Carr is going to be with us next year no matter what. Let us just hope that a new coaching staff will make Carr better - forget better - NFL caliber would be nice.

Good points, couldn't have said it better myself.

TexansJunkE
11-06-2005, 03:27 PM
You guys keep saying that we are doing so much worse than last year.............But if I remember right didn't CC say this past week that maybe we overachieved last year. So we just need to be thankful for last year and go on thinking that this is the team on the rise. Hey CC hwo does this feel.......:tomato: Don't think your getting my season ticket money next year!

belars44
11-06-2005, 03:27 PM
he also lead the charge downfield, was perfect throwing the ball in the 3rd quarter and put the team in a position to comeback in the 4th quarter, not much he can do about bradford dropping one. By the way, if bradford is so innconsitent and untrustworthy, why is he out there on 4th down? This is a coaching problem, not a quarterback problem.

On there being a coaching problem I certainly agree, and that I am confident will be attenuated over the off-season. Carr is here to stay so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that a new staff may get him on track.

However, from the progress he has shown over his career here (and what I mean is that ALL you apologists who weren't here years 1 and 2 sound just like those who "had his back" then), the new regime will eventually find someone else to lead this team.........they just need to find someone with leadership ability, and not just someone who grins on the sidelines at home when we look bad.

jaayteetx
11-06-2005, 03:29 PM
Bottom line, Bradford needs to make that play. Right in his #@%*@*^ hands!
Carr takes, IMO, way too many sacks when he is OUTSIDE the tackle box and can just throw it away. Other than that, he had a good game, not a franschise QB type game-which when your drafted #1 your supposed to be.

utahmark
11-06-2005, 03:30 PM
if you got a wr on the field that you cant pass to in some situations. then its the coaches fault. carr doesnt have time not to throw to an open reciever. as soon as he sees someone open he has to throw it.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 03:39 PM
Bradford cannot make a catch to save his life! Double coverage had nothing to do with the drop! The ball was coming out before he was even touched! Everybody, including it looked like the offensive coordinator, saying that Carr should have thrown to Johnson instead is ridiculous. Why get 10 yards when you can get 30?!?! Bradford is supposed to be a professional receiver, so just catch the damn ball! It was not a difficult catch except for the circumstances to make! Everybody complains that the Texans don't take enough chances downfield and when Carr finally does and makes another perfect throw and hits bradford in the hands again he gets criticized for it!

utahmark
11-06-2005, 03:40 PM
He led his team to another loss. He has led his team to 4 wins in the last 16 games. That's really the bottom line.

brett farve must be just as sorry.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 03:41 PM
One other thing that irritates the heck out of me! Why is it that when Carr yells at teammates and spikes the ball he is being immature but when Peyton Manning does the EXACT samething he is called competitive?!?!

NFLforher
11-06-2005, 03:43 PM
Wow I can't believe these folks. Carr lays it right in Bradfords hands for a huge gain in yardage and still it's Carrs fault. He throws for over 200 yards against a tough Jag defense, doesn't throw an INT and the game is his fault.

No one is going to take you seriously if you keep this Carr bashing, you are now just on your own biased agenda without any regard to facts.


I noticed that a long time ago.

MorKnolle
11-06-2005, 03:45 PM
Bradford had a decent game going until the end, he was actually playing like he wanted a contract next year, but then the law of averages kicked in and he dropped that last one. Carr took a couple sacks he should have thrown away today but otherwise I think he had a good day.


Carr made the same stupid mistakes he has since he was a rookie. Runs into sacks, fumbles, misses open receivers. etc. Barely over 200 yards and 1 TD is a below-average performance by NFL standards. By Carr apologist standards it's a career day.

I agree that Carr took a couple sacks today and fumbled too much, although a couple of those were the OLine's fault for giving him no protection. I don't know how many open receivers he missed. As for the 200 yards being below-average, 200 yards a game over the course of the season = 3200 yards for the season, which only 14 QBs had last year, including DC, so I wouldn't say 200 yards per game is "below average", although I certainly would like to see more out of them. I put much of the blame on the passing game on the OC. While I think Pendry is doing much better than Palmer, they still are not putting Carr in a position where he can put up stellar passing numbers. On a positive note, it was good to see Andre out there today and see them throw to him for something other than a 1 yard hitch route like they kept doing in the first two games with Palmer. Let's hope with Mathis and Davis returning next week that the offense will continue to look better and get something positive out of the end of the year.

NFLforher
11-06-2005, 03:47 PM
He led his team to another loss. He has led his team to 4 wins in the last 16 games. That's really the bottom line.


If you are not new to the game of football, why haven't you noticed that football is a team sport and David isn't alone out there with a tennis racket?

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 03:48 PM
When Jacksonville was driving down the field earlier in the 4th quarter they threw a pass down the sideline that i believe went to smith and he only got one foot in bounds and his shoulder landed out of bounds and it looked more like his momentum that our guy touching that made him land out of bounds! It happened on the play right before the BS call on Seth Payne.:challenge :challenge

MorKnolle
11-06-2005, 03:49 PM
BTW that Defensive Holding call on Payne was total BS and cost us that game as much as Bradford's inability to make a play when it counts.



I agree, that defensive holding seemed like BS but they refused to show it again so I'll have to check it on tape in a couple days.

MorKnolle
11-06-2005, 03:51 PM
When Jacksonville was driving down the field earlier in the 4th quarter they threw a pass down the sideline that i believe went to smith and he only got one foot in bounds and his shoulder landed out of bounds and it looked more like his momentum that our guy touching that made him land out of bounds! It happened on the play right before the BS call on Seth Payne.:challenge :challenge

Smith's knee came down in bounds too so that was a good catch, and Bradford dropped that ball before he came down, the replay they showed afterward clearly showed that. Not sure why we didn't throw to Andre although I can't overly fault Carr for throwing a great ball to Bradford that should have been caught. Let's hope Mathis will be back next week so Bradford won't have to be in the game even on four-WR sets. Good to see Andre back and making an impact.

Marcus
11-06-2005, 03:54 PM
He led his team to another loss. He has led his team to 4 wins in the last 16 games. That's really the bottom line.

Gee thanks, Wonger. I'll bet Seth Wand, Corey Bradford, Jason Babin, Buchanon, McKinney, and other underperforming players really appreciate you leaving them out of the blame.

____________________________

nunusguy
11-06-2005, 03:56 PM
Even though Carr passed up the the % pass to AJ (especially under the circumstances), bottom line is he was a playmaker and Bradford wasn't.
And what a pass ! Dang, Bradford should have had that - this is the NFL right !
Another crucial play appears to be the injury to Hodgdon which took him out of the game and resulted in Wand instead of Pitts at LT.
And it sure was great to have AJ back on the field ! Finally puts some teeth
in the offense again.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 04:04 PM
If Hodgdon can walk, he needs to be in the game! He's better than McKinney at center, but McKinney makes a pretty good guard and puts Pitts out at tackle where he is decent if he's not committing a penalty! Biggest thing is that it gets Wand out of the game. I guess I shouldn't hurt Wands feelings so i'll blame the coaches, WAND SHOULD NEVER STEP ON THE FIELD. If i hear one more time that they like his footwork and he has quick feet im gonna throw up! Dude is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!

Vinny
11-06-2005, 04:06 PM
If Hodgdon can walk, he needs to be in the game! That's the problem...ankle injury I believe. It's hard to believe when your Center(s) get injured you move your LT to G. This is probably the only team in the NFL that would do this. I'm not comparing Chester Pitts to Orlando Pace but can you see the Rams move Pace to G if their centers go down? oye.

Marcus
11-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Casserley saying we overachieved last year....haha...how dare he say something like that. Fact is he said last year before the season that Playoffs were the goal. They didnt reach the goal. Thus they DIDNT OVERACHIEVE. Casserley is just grasping at air at this point. His fall is imminent.

Doug from the Woodlands

Looks like Doug from the Woodlands doesn't really know what the word OVERACHIEVE means. Casserly did not predict playoffs last year. Casserly did not expect playoffs last year. He said that the playoffs were the goal, but so what? What team does not have that goal?

Casserly is correct. They DID overacheive last year. They were a 4-12 team that actually went 7-9.

ccdude730
11-06-2005, 04:12 PM
well even though pitts is best at guard you sacrifice putting mckinney back at center where he is his worst with cruddy line calls and moving up to the 2nd level (and he isnt that great at guard either).

shows how versatile our line is....

Runner
11-06-2005, 04:13 PM
Even though Carr passed up the the % pass to AJ (especially under the circumstances), bottom line is he was a playmaker and Bradford wasn't.
And what a pass ! Dang, Bradford should have had that - this is the NFL right !
Another crucial play appears to be the injury to Hodgdon which took him out of the game and resulted in Wand instead of Pitts at LT.
And it sure was great to have AJ back on the field ! Finally puts some teeth
in the offense again.

A quick look at stats shows that we had a fairly even split in yardage gained between the 2 halves. The Texans as a team handled the line shake-up pretty well.


I'll be interested to see a more detailed offensive break down if someone does the exercise this week.

Wand would be better with more PT. This is his first real play this season; a couple of mistakes should be expected (and corrected). He played fairly solid with the exception of those two plays in the final drive - and after them he was mauling his DE the final 6 plays. He must of gotten PO'd. Remember Pitts lined up illegally twice in the first series he moved to tackle - mistakes happen when you change position/start playing.

ccdude730
11-06-2005, 04:20 PM
have they tried wand at RT? he has pass protection skill, bowhunting skill, nunchuck skill....er. just some pass protection skill but not much from the LT position.

CowboysTexansFan
11-06-2005, 04:21 PM
F *** Charley Casserly--got it?

Maybe the team did overachieve last year, but he has underachieved in his horrendous impersonation as a GM. He (along with the coaching staff) needs to have his sorry *** fired or I will seriously consider not renewing my season tickets.

I don't blame Carr for the loss. I thought he had a decent game, though he should've thrown the ball away on a couple of plays. Bradford is such a joke at WR I can't believe that ***** Casserly resigned him. He needs to be given his walking papers at the end of the year. The team desperately needs to sign a legit #2 receiver. I don't know who will be available, but Peerless Price is a guy the team should look at. He couldn't cut it as a #1, but behind AJ I think he would be fine. He certainly would be better than what we have.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 04:22 PM
A quick look at stats shows that we had a fairly even split in yardage gained between the 2 halaves. The Texans as a team handled the line shake-up pretty well.

Wand would be better with more PT. This is his first real play this season; a couple of mistakes should be expected (and corrected). .

They handled the line shakeup well? Before Hodgdon injury, time to pass: After Hodgdon injury, no time to pass! The first play after Hodgdon was hurt, carr was running for his life! More PT?!!? are you kidding?!? Wand played quite a bit last year and was starting the first couple of games this year before we put a ROOKIE in that made the line better. Experience can't help speed and quickness! Dlinemen and LBs are flat out beating Wand around the end!

Runner
11-06-2005, 04:25 PM
Wand played quite a bit last year and was starting the first couple of games this year before we put a ROOKIE in that made the line better.

I have no comment about your insight after seeing your "facts".

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 04:28 PM
from the texans website on bio for wand
2004: Started all 16 games at left tackle

Experience is not needed, talent is

Runner
11-06-2005, 04:29 PM
have they tried wand at RT? he has pass protection skill, bowhunting skill, nunchuck skill....er. just some pass protection skill but not much from the LT position.

Just a note - I said the same thing about Hodgdon to center, McKinney to guard, Pitts to tackle. Don't expect miracles the first game, give them some time, and they didn't look real good that first game as a unit - penalties and missed assignments. They did improve over time.

This coaching staff doesn't seem to have their starters ready to play; it is small wonder back-ups aren't ready.

Runner
11-06-2005, 04:31 PM
from the texans website on bio for wand
2004: Started all 16 games at left tackle

Experience is not needed, talent is

I was responding to your claim that he started a couple of games this year.

Yes, he started all 16 games last year, and did far better than the guy our brilliant coaching staff replaced him with this year. That was a coaching mistake, not a player mistake.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 04:42 PM
Sorry, he played quite a bit in the first couple of games and had been inactive since. you're right though, coaching is terrible! Riley was not the answer either, its no wonder nobody else wanted him. Samething with Bradford, we had let him go, nobody else wanted him and he starts for us? Maybe i shouldn't be slamming wand as much as i should be giving props to hodgdon because he makes the line better around him. Wand might be serviceable as a backup which is what he was in this circumstance but not at left tackle. Maybe the other posters are right and maybe we should try him on the right side.

Goldeagle
11-06-2005, 05:01 PM
And if Bradford makes that catch. Which he should of suddenly Carr is a hero.

Bradford sucks. Carr did what was needed to win the game today. Bradford blew it.


You can argue all you want, but Bradford needs to catch the ball. He blew it, and you cant blame Carr for going for the win. I guess going for the win is a new concept to this team and some of its fans.

rmartin65
11-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Carr went for the win, and Bradford sucks. Enough said.

And we need Mathis.

rmartin65
11-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Oh yea, and Carr had a 104.7 rating.

Napa Auto Parts
11-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Oh yea, and Carr had a 104.7 rating.



i would preffer his rating be -500 impossible but leading the texans to a win but that is to much to ask. David rather throw it in to cdouble coverage than a for sure 1st down with AJ.

ccdude730
11-06-2005, 05:18 PM
i would preffer his rating be -500 impossible but leading the texans to a win but that is to much to ask. David rather throw it in to cdouble coverage than a for sure 1st down with AJ.
in the nfl, corey was OPEN even if you say he was double covered. the safetly was late sliding over and bradford had his man beat.

it would have been a bad pass/decision if anyone but bradford touched that ball. but as we all saw it was in his hands - he just didnt take care of it when putting it back in. like someone said earlier, if 10 people are covering the wr but he has a step, it doesnt matter because he is still open. enought with the story about it being carr's fault.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 05:21 PM
Double coverage?!?! Who cares if its double coverage if you can beat it?!?! Man, even our fans are scared like the coaches! OMG!! Don't try to impose our will on the other team!! Which is what football is about! Perfect throw! Bradford was dropping the ball before he was even touched! No hands in Bradfords face to distract him either!

Anybody afraid of Carr or the texans to throw a pass like that are the same people that keep saying we can't beat the colts because of the dreaded cover 2! Heaven forbid if we attack it! Put people in positions to make plays, some do and some don't! Carr did, Bradford didnt!

THEFUTURE
11-06-2005, 05:24 PM
He led his team to another loss. He has led his team to 4 wins in the last 16 games. That's really the bottom line.
more than 1 player plays a game... how about a defense that doesnt create turnover or create pressure, how about an oline that still gave up 6 sacks? Carr is one man, on a team of many.. Carr can only control what he is supposed to. the Jags had two scoring drives of over 80 yards. is that Carr's fault too??? c'mon get real. Is he supposed to catch the ball for his receivers too now? its not good enough that he delivered the ball to his receiver right into his hands. we win this game, and no one says anything about a supposed poor performance by Carr... if anything we needed DD in there, im sorry but i didnt see anything from Morency or Wells that makes me think they are capable of being a quality starting back, just good enough to be backups, yeah wells carried for 4.2 yards a carry.. but DD usually does way better against a poor jags rush defense (see last year)... so while you Carr bashers are busy blaming the wrong guy... maybe you should go and start looking for a new team to follow or something.. cuz your wrong today

Kaiser Toro
11-06-2005, 05:33 PM
Carr had his best game of the season and I belive the Texans played their best game.

Carr did not lose the game nor did he win the game. Bravo to Carr, Wells, Walker, Babin, Hodgdon and AJ.

TEXANRED
11-06-2005, 06:03 PM
I feel the O was playing fairly well until the center got hurt and wand was playing left tackle. At that point it seemed as though the wheels fell off the bus.

Wells did a good job of running, AJ did a good job of getting open, Corey did score a touchdown and up to the last play was doing a fairly good job of catching the ball. And it's official, Morency couldnt find a running lane with a map and a compass.

What I am puzzled about is why was Bradford the hot read? Dont get me wrong I think the call was right, we needed a big chunk of yardage in a short time. The protection was there and the throw was perfect. Why Bradford? He is not your clutch reciever. why was it not AJ running that same rout?

One last note. Can somebody tell me how on gods green earth you let Gary Coleman, the NFL's slowest man, walk into the endzone untouched from 10 yards out?

Vinny
11-06-2005, 06:39 PM
And it's official, Morency couldnt find a running lane with a map and a compass.

Morency had one good run where he showed his explosiveness. He needs more carries to get used to the speed of the NFL...Tatum Bell looked like crap his rookie year, so did Larry Johnson as well. Both those guys are budding superstars now. Not everybody is going to step in as a rookie with no touches and tear up the league right off the bat.

the wonger need food
11-06-2005, 06:41 PM
Morency had one good run where he showed his explosiveness. He needs more carries to get used to the speed of the NFL...Tatum Bell looked like crap his rookie year, so did Larry Johnson as well. Both those guys are budding superstars now. Not everybody is going to step in as a rookie with no touches and tear up the league right off the bat.

Morency showed some things in the preseason. If they can get him a decent pair of cleats he could be an effective backup.

utahmark
11-06-2005, 07:03 PM
carr looked to be getting comfortable for the first time this year. untill pitts went to gaurd.

carr's protection looked a little better verses indy but we were still using 3 step drops.

against clev protection looked a little better.

today for the first quarter and half. line was playing well and carr was looking sharp.

this just helps prove that he can be a good qb givin the protection. i hope hodgdon comes back. i think we will start to see a better carr.

passer rating over 100 today.

the last play of the game is debateable. but i dont see how anyone can dog him for it. he did his part. and if we dont go for it then jacksonville starts putting thier safeties in the endzone and makes us throw to middle of field. that was probably our best chance.

Runner
11-06-2005, 07:10 PM
In the quantum theory of the universe, every possible outcome of any event happens in a parallel universe. So I slipped over a couple of time streams and...

Last play of the game - Carr throws over the middle to Johnson on 4th down. Andre drops the ball!

Houston fans are livid! Bradford was streaking down the sideline for a sure touchdown. Carr is inept! Why throw to the middle of the field when time is running out? Isn't he trying to win? Is every throw a pass to AJ or a dump off to the RB?


The moral of the story is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Now to find that time stream where we won today........

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 07:11 PM
Morency showed some things in the preseason. If they can get him a decent pair of cleats he could be an effective backup.

I think the NFL should have stepped in and cut the field shorter in Jacksonville because obviously the grass must be taller than what Morency is used to running on, therefore giving Jacksonville an unfair homefield advantage! :jk:

chuckm
11-06-2005, 07:13 PM
In the quantum theory of the universe, every possible outcome of any event happens in a parallel universe. So I slipped over a couple of time streams and...

Last play of the game - Carr throws over the middle to Johnson on 4th down. Andre drops the ball!


Wrong ..... John Henderson batted it down because of Carr's sidearm delivery .....

Runner
11-06-2005, 07:16 PM
Wrong ..... John Henderson batted it down because of Carr's sidearm delivery .....

That was a 3rd time stream.

Kaiser Toro
11-06-2005, 08:40 PM
That was a 3rd time stream.

It is getting high brow in here. Well done.

nunusguy
11-06-2005, 08:57 PM
I guess going for the win is a new concept to this team and some of its fans.
After all the criticism of conservative play calling the Texans have gotten, when you think about it it's actually pretty comical that Carr & coaches would be attacked for rolling the dice for once, especialy with a record of 1-6 going into the game.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 09:00 PM
After all the criticism of conservative play calling the Texans have gotten, when you think about it it's actually pretty comical that Carr & coaches would be attacked for rolling the dice for once, especialy with a record of 1-6 going into the game.
Judging by Pendrys reaction, only Carr wanted to try and win the game!

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 09:09 PM
We had 6 sacks today. How many do you blame on the O-line (3). And most of those I would put on the Coaches for putting Wand at LT after Hodgeson injury instead of LG and leaving Pitts where he has had some success lately. Wand has already proven last year and these preseason he can't handle the speed off the end, but he is big and strong enough to handle a DT on the inside.

1st sack goes to Morency pitful blitz pick up.

Other 2, go to Carr. And one of them he even saw the DB coming up. He could have just tossed it away, but he slide ONE yard behind the line, so it counts as a sack.

So dont count those 2. 4 sacks is still to many to be given up.

BuffSoldier
11-06-2005, 09:11 PM
On there being a coaching problem I certainly agree, and that I am confident will be attenuated over the off-season. Carr is here to stay so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that a new staff may get him on track.

However, from the progress he has shown over his career here (and what I mean is that ALL you apologists who weren't here years 1 and 2 sound just like those who "had his back" then), the new regime will eventually find someone else to lead this team.........they just need to find someone with leadership ability, and not just someone who grins on the sidelines at home when we look bad.

I was here year 1 through 4 and I see progression. Maybe not in his QB skills because we have never given him a chance to develope. You cant develope when you cant get comfortable in the pocket. But Carr has become more mature and intelligent.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 09:19 PM
ya know, when Carr first got here he was excited and happy go lucky and would be head-butting his own teammates. but after the poundings he's given up on head-butting his teammates and now it appears he and his teammates are butting heads! :brickwall its alot easier given his physical condition after getting pounded into the turf for 4 straight years!:sarcasm:

edo783
11-06-2005, 09:23 PM
All through the game several posters were whinning about not throwing anything over 10-12 yards. Then when Carr pitches a perfect strike about 20-25 yards they whine that he should have thrown short. To some it will not matter what Carr does or how well he plays, they will whine because they don't want him at QB. The Bradford throw was a VERY good toss. If he had thrown to AJ, maybe AJ drops it, or maybe he is stoped short of the 1st down, maybe he catches it and they catch him and time runs out or maybe he makes it to the end zone. There are no garantees that the outcome would have been any better or worse. If Mr hands of stone had caught the ball (hit him in the worst possible spot, his hands), we would have been inside the 10 and he would have went out of bounds on the reception, stopping the clock. We would have at least 1 or 2 shots to the enzone from there. Would we have made it????? sorry, the crystal ball is a bit dark on that one.

run-david-run
11-06-2005, 09:23 PM
That was a 3rd time stream.
In my stream bradford caught it, we end up socring on the play and, seeing as we are 1-6 we go for it on the 2 point conversion and get it!!! woot, texans win...

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 09:32 PM
he is probably trying to be more profesional.
I asked this in a previous post---why is David Carr labeled immature for yelling at his teammates and spiking the ball but Peyton Manning is labeled as competitive for doing the exact same thing?!?!:deadhorse :soapbox:

Napa Auto Parts
11-06-2005, 09:34 PM
I asked this in a previous post---why is David Carr labeled immature for yelling at his teammates and spiking the ball but Peyton Manning is labeled as competitive for doing the exact same thing?!?!:deadhorse :soapbox:


May be Peyton has proven he can win a game from behind or may be he has proven he can win more than two games in a row. just may be?:texflag:

Lucky
11-06-2005, 09:35 PM
All through the game several posters were whinning about not throwing anything over 10-12 yards. Then when Carr pitches a perfect strike about 20-25 yards they whine that he should have thrown short. To some it will not matter what Carr does or how well he plays, they will whine because they don't want him at QB. The Bradford throw was a VERY good toss...
You know the score. The QB gets too much credit, too much blame. The tougher the loss, the more blame.

I feel for Bradford. He was on the verge of a big day. He had that ball and brought it in to his chest. He had it. Does someone sneak vaseline on Corey's jersey? Just buzzard luck.

kenneth24
11-06-2005, 09:40 PM
May be Peyton has proven he can win a game from behind or may be he has proven he can win more than two games in a row. just may be?:texflag:

But if he acts "professional" and keeps his mouth shut, all he will hear is how he doesn't have any heart and isn't doing anything vocally to lead the team. Because when you have guys dropping the ball on you and giving you nothing but "look-out" blocks you don't get a whole lot of chances to lead by "example".:goodnight

yaboycm
11-06-2005, 09:54 PM
Nice catch Bradford, way to keep my belief that we cant win when it matters!


But I am sure it was David Carrs fault

HE HAS NO FIELD VISION

Runner
11-06-2005, 10:30 PM
That is why if you can read Carrs mouth on the sideline after that when he is talking to Pendry he says "he was not open", speaking of Dre and the last play.


Don't assume he was talking about the last play. It could have been the sack that happened a play or two before that.

Goldeagle
11-06-2005, 10:51 PM
The pass was perfect, double Coverage or not. You could not have put the ball any better into the hands of Bradford.

ANYONE saying Johnson was open, well hindsight is 20/20 but you have to admit the pass Carr made to Bradford was perfect and he dropped the ball.

With Johnson dropping passes, Carr should have looked for Gaffney, the only guy who can actually catch the ball.

BigBull17
11-07-2005, 12:12 AM
We had 6 sacks today. How many do you blame on the O-line (3). And most of those I would put on the Coaches for putting Wand at LT after Hodgeson injury instead of LG and leaving Pitts where he has had some success lately. Wand has already proven last year and these preseason he can't handle the speed off the end, but he is big and strong enough to handle a DT on the inside.

1st sack goes to Morency pitful blitz pick up.

Other 2, go to Carr. And one of them he even saw the DB coming up. He could have just tossed it away, but he slide ONE yard behind the line, so it counts as a sack.
That wasnt a bad play when there is 2 min. and some change left you want the clock to keep moving when its going to be 3rd and long.

infantrycak
11-07-2005, 09:11 AM
Last play of the game - Carr throws over the middle to Johnson on 4th down. Andre drops the ball!

Houston fans are livid! Bradford was streaking down the sideline for a sure touchdown. Carr is inept! Why throw to the middle of the field when time is running out? Isn't he trying to win? Is every throw a pass to AJ or a dump off to the RB?

The moral of the story is you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Exactly right, but the moral to the story is if you filter all your information with a desired result in mind, you will find information to support that desired result. Several folks around here while self-proclaiming themselves as realistic non-homers have an open agenda at this point and have lost any inclination or ability to objectively view Carr's play as a piece of the O.

johnboy
11-07-2005, 11:27 AM
Agreed. I can't believe people are blaming the loss on Carr? He a good game and put the ball right in Bradfords hands.

Why not blame Seth Payne for the loss?? If he didn't hold on a defensive play which is a questionable call to begin with, we have the ball going the other way and it's still 14-14.

We can't blame Seth because it is a team game, not a Carr game.


Carr loss the game a few plays before the droped pass when he threw the ball 20 ft over AJ's head with nobody within 15 yards of AJ at about the 10 yard line. Carr had all the time he wanted on this play terrible pass.
also Coleman & Fraggins play terrible Sunday.

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 11:34 AM
Carr loss the game a few plays before the droped pass when he threw the ball 20 ft over AJ's head with nobody within 15 yards of AJ at about the 10 yard line. Carr had all the time he wanted on this play terrible pass.
also Coleman & Fraggins play terrible Sunday.
Terrible pass?!?! AJ admits that he thought Carr had already done something else with the ball and stopped his route? Again its Carr's fault the receiver didn't finish off the play!:brickwall

rittenhouserobz
11-07-2005, 12:56 PM
The Texans are on a tough run. I sure hope that all the Carr-bashers will fess up when he is leading us to victories next year.

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Carr loss the game a few plays before the droped pass when he threw the ball 20 ft over AJ's head with nobody within 15 yards of AJ at about the 10 yard line. Carr had all the time he wanted on this play terrible pass.
also Coleman & Fraggins play terrible Sunday.

That pass was a mis-communication between the two on the route, and yes Andre stopped early on the route. Carr said on the 610 interview this morning that it was supposed to be a "legal pick" play and that the guys ran into each other.

kenneth24
11-07-2005, 10:28 PM
If the ball hits the receiver in the hands (or elbow or helmet) while he's open and drops it but Carr is the one that throws it, does it really count as a drop ball?!?!?:sarcasm:

LBblitz
11-08-2005, 12:30 AM
Carr gets bashed for not throwing to anyone other than AJ or DD. He then gets bashed for not throwing to AJ?! Yes I know AJ was open and could have gotten the first down and out of bounds but at 1-7 you have to go for the win. I see everyone complain how they want play calling to win not to be "close" and bash carr because he went for the win. I really am confused. I personally feel Carr made the right choice and showed his talent to make that throw.

texan0305
11-08-2005, 01:20 AM
Im by no means a carr basher, but have you guys seen the games and seen instances where he's out of the pocket and can jus throw the ball away instead of taking a sack...he did it on the final drive of the game and it cost them 5 yards! Its not his ability that i'm questioning its his decision making, in the nfl you dont need to have the great athelete to be a good dominant qb, you need parts around you, you need weapons, i know that, but carr in year 4 has taken a giant step back in his progression, he's regressed! No one can argue that, just look at the game tape and you can see that there are lots of sacks this year where he just made the wrong decision.... i hope he's back next year i hope they upgrade the offensive line, and most of all i hope if they have the number 1 pick they take Reggie Bush, the oilers in 87 passed on erik dickerson, i dont want to see the texans make the same mistake, they could use a playmaker running back with the conservative offense they run : )

kenneth24
11-08-2005, 06:20 AM
Im by no means a carr basher, but have you guys seen the games and seen instances where he's out of the pocket and can jus throw the ball away instead of taking a sack...he did it on the final drive of the game and it cost them 5 yards! Its not his ability that i'm questioning its his decision making, in the nfl you dont need to have the great athelete to be a good dominant qb, you need parts around you, you need weapons, i know that, but carr in year 4 has taken a giant step back in his progression, he's regressed! No one can argue that, just look at the game tape and you can see that there are lots of sacks this year where he just made the wrong decision.... i hope he's back next year i hope they upgrade the offensive line, and most of all i hope if they have the number 1 pick they take Reggie Bush, the oilers in 87 passed on erik dickerson, i dont want to see the texans make the same mistake, they could use a playmaker running back with the conservative offense they run : )
If his big decision making problem is what that he does not get rid of the ball instead of taking a loss, then I'm confident he can figure that out like you said if they upgrade the O-Line. I agree that he should know that by now (Im tired of yelling at the TV "Throw the damn ball!) but at the same time when Carr does get enough time to throw he makes good throws to the right receiver. Most QBs though would get killed in the pocket and never get a chance to get out and take the 2 to 5 yard loss and the Texans would be stuck with a 10 yard loss.

texan0305
11-08-2005, 10:34 AM
But at the same time isn't he suppose to be a leader? He's the number one pick in the draft, he doesn't show the leadership quality's demanded out of a number one pick, why is it that in the post news conference it's never david carr's fault? He never decides to take any blame on him, take the initiative, man up when you've had a bad game. I'm not saying Carr had a bad game last week, actually i'm semi-happy with his performance. But at the same time they lost... he made crucial errors, first the fumble which gave the jags a short field, then the sack for a loss, on both plays carr had time to make the right decision and get rid of the ball but chose not to. Also i agree there are points in the year when he looks like he's got it together where it looks like he can find the reciever down the field, but it's not like the Texans have played great opponents this year the 2 teams that stand out that they just had no chance in where the Steelers, and the Colts, the rest of the games i hate to break it to all the texans fans are winnable games (they stayed with cincinnatti and had a chance to win the game late, and i guarantee no one predicted the Seattle outcome they should have atleast kept it competitive), I hate to beat a dead horse but his decision making throughout the year has been horroundous, he has talent so there is some upside and i hope they stick with him until he has a functional offensive line, but someone on the coaching staff needs to get into his head and let him know that it's not always the lines fault there are instances where sacks are taken when they shouldnt be..........



:goodnight

johnboy
11-08-2005, 11:37 AM
That pass was a mis-communication between the two on the route, and yes Andre stopped early on the route. Carr said on the 610 interview this morning that it was supposed to be a "legal pick" play and that the guys ran into each other.

I am not bashing Carr I just Know what I saw I was at the game.I know not every pass Carr throws will be on the money. I do believe he could have went deep the few times, AJ was open and Carr had the time but threw short.

infantrycak
11-08-2005, 12:09 PM
I am not bashing Carr I just Know what I saw I was at the game.I know not every pass Carr throws will be on the money. I do believe he could have went deep the few times, AJ was open and Carr had the time but threw short.

What you are missing on this is the design of the play. The Texans played a lot of 3 WR and 4 WR sets. Many times AJ or another WR would go longer than the play made, but they were not the 1st read. For example, many of the Bradford receptions you are talking about--those were designed as 5 step drop, check Bradford, throw if open. This is a function of a history of poor pass protection. The Texans have made the O into one designed to get the ball out in 1-2 seconds and not count on protection while Carr checks all 4 WR's on the field.

eriadoc
11-08-2005, 12:47 PM
Im by no means a carr basher, but have you guys seen the games and seen instances where he's out of the pocket and can jus throw the ball away instead of taking a sack...he did it on the final drive of the game and it cost them 5 yards! Its not his ability that i'm questioning its his decision making, in the nfl you dont need to have the great athelete to be a good dominant qb, you need parts around you, you need weapons, i know that, but carr in year 4 has taken a giant step back in his progression, he's regressed! No one can argue that, just look at the game tape and you can see that there are lots of sacks this year where he just made the wrong decision.... i hope he's back next year i hope they upgrade the offensive line, and most of all i hope if they have the number 1 pick they take Reggie Bush, the oilers in 87 passed on erik dickerson, i dont want to see the texans make the same mistake, they could use a playmaker running back with the conservative offense they run : )

Thankfully, infantrycak has taken to posting his observations on game tape for us. Here's his latest installment for your perusal. Go ahead and note the poor decisions that Carr makes - they are pointed out pretty clearly within.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=14295

LBblitz
11-08-2005, 04:11 PM
he made crucial errors, first the fumble which gave the jags a short field

i dont think you can blame him for the fumble. unless I am mistaken he had the ball close to his chest with two hands on the ball and just came out of the last step in his drop. The pocket had collapsed since they broke the huddle and gave carr no time to throw or run.