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View Full Version : Is Young edging out Bush for Heisman ?


nunusguy
11-04-2005, 08:16 AM
"And then Young reminded everyone why he is a once-in-a-school talent at quarterback by taking over in the second half of the Oklahoma State game the way Don King is taken over by hair. Thanks to Young, a player other than a USC Trojan topped the Rocky Mountain News' Heisman Poll for the first time this season. The newspaper's poll taps the pulse of 10 Heisman voters (two from each of the nation's five voting regions)."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/110405dnspofbwheismanlede.1b93da8.html

metalmike
11-04-2005, 08:27 AM
Hell yeah! Although I do believe Bush will win it. Young will get the last laugh by bringing the national championship back to Texas!

Hook Em Horns, Go Rockets, Go Texans, Go Astros

tulexan
11-04-2005, 08:34 AM
Young may deserve it more than Bush, but the fact that Bush had that huge game against Notre Dame on national television that everyone in the country saw is going to help him a lot. Young had that huge game against Oklahoma State, but if you weren't a fan of either school chances are that you didn't see it. I think the only way that Young will pass Bush is if Bush has a horrible game where he doesn't have many yards, no touchdowns, and maybe a fumble.

MorKnolle
11-04-2005, 09:19 AM
About the only way Young would get the Heisman is if UT beats USC for the national championship and Young has a game like he did in the Rose Bowl last year, and that won't happen.

Vinny
11-04-2005, 09:21 AM
About the only way Young would get the Heisman is if UT beats USC for the national championship and Young has a game like he did in the Rose Bowl last year, and that won't happen.And Young won't be able to pass on OSU in a clutch drive to with the game either

beerlover
11-04-2005, 10:17 AM
About the only way Young would get the Heisman is if UT beats USC for the national championship and Young has a game like he did in the Rose Bowl last year, and that won't happen.

the Heisman announcement is only a month away December 10th I believe so the Rose Bowl will be only window dressing on this issue, either validation or vindication.

Vince had a great Rose Bowl last year so I feel he'll take those good thoughts with him and have another spectacular game & its in USC's backyard so it should be instant classic, that is if UCLA does'nt dump on the Trojan parade or VA TECH destroys the Hurricanes & leap frog the Longhorns in the BCS :pigfly:

tulexan
11-04-2005, 10:22 AM
This part of the schedule could hurt Vince and Texas because they are expected to win by huge margins, so nothing they do will be impressive. The remaining schedule can only hurt them and if VT wins out, then it ultimately will hurt them because they will probably drop down to 3. USC and VT both have some tough games left on their schedule, which could bode well for Reggie Bush. Something to watch for could be if UCLA goes in and beats USC (which I doubt they will, but would love to see) and Maurice Drew has a huge game, he could win the Heisman. It would have to be a monster game though like 4 or 5 touchdowns with punt returns and all.

Huge
11-04-2005, 11:47 AM
Young may deserve it more than Bush, but the fact that Bush had that huge game against Notre Dame on national television that everyone in the country saw is going to help him a lot. Young had that huge game against Oklahoma State, but if you weren't a fan of either school chances are that you didn't see it. I think the only way that Young will pass Bush is if Bush has a horrible game where he doesn't have many yards, no touchdowns, and maybe a fumble.
Young had his game...against Ohio State. Problem is, it was the 2nd game of the season and it's not as fresh in the minds of the voters.

But I remember when Chris Weinke won the Heisman over Josh Heupel. At the coin flip of the Orange Bowl, the Sooner players told the Seminoles that because they took their QB's trophy (the Heisman), they were going to take the other (BCS).

Ask Young, and I'm sure he'd be more than willing to let Bush have the Heisman if it means he gets the BCS.

Besides, imagine who the overwhelming favorite will be next year if Young comes back and Bush leaves early.

metalmike
11-04-2005, 04:44 PM
1. Young will be back. Every big time UT star comes back. He'll be back for that 2nd championship
2. Texas will be in the championship game against hopefully USC. Maybe VT.

Texas's D is really strong and will keep Texas in the game against USC
USC's D is not that strong, so mark my words YOUNG WILL KILL THE TROJANS!
hopefully USC can get past UCLA

Coach C.
11-04-2005, 05:06 PM
Right now VT and UT are the exact same team except VT has a better defense. I know UT is ranked better but they are not better. USC will beat UT, because beating UT is the same as beating the Falcons. If OSU would have stayed with their defensive scheme they would have beat UT. I am not knocking Vince because he is an awesome player, maybe even the 4th best player in all of college football, but he does not have it all down just yet to win it all. Young also will not win the Heisman. Bush is a highlight film with no faults. Young has played well everygame, but has not played great everygame. BUSH FOR HEISMAN.... GO USC(Just because I do not want UT to win)

Fldvldog
11-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Right now, they both deserve it. But, I would give a slight edge to Bush.

Fiddy
11-04-2005, 05:20 PM
But, I would give a slight edge to Bush. Why? I've heard a few people make the arguement that he isnt even the best RB on the team.

rmartin65
11-04-2005, 05:23 PM
Why? I've heard a few people make the arguement that he isnt even the best RB on the team.
He can change the game in so many ways.

tulexan
11-04-2005, 06:27 PM
He's not the best WR on the team. Both Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett are better receivers.

I believe the argument was that LenDale White would be a better pro than Reggie Bush because he is bigger and more durable. I happen to agree with that statement too.

Fiddy
11-04-2005, 06:31 PM
He's not the best WR on the team. Both Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett are better receivers. Each one of those guys could go over the 1,000 yard receiving mark this year. So, like tulexan said, Bush is not the better WR...

swtbound07
11-04-2005, 07:08 PM
i dont think texas will be leapfrogged, just because i believe there will only be 2 undefeated teams, texas and alabama. I know that sounds crazy, but bama and texas have the easiest road to a perfect season, usc has to get through a ucla team tailor made to upset them, and virginia tech is going to have to get through miami, and florida state in the acc championship game....i think that the bcs would prefer a usc-texas game, but usc has looked vulnerable against arizona state and notre dame this year, and i dont think they can run the table again

Huge
11-04-2005, 08:59 PM
I honestly think the $$ will be too tempting for Vince and he will enter the draft, despite what he is saying right now. This year he could end up being the number 1 pick in the draft. Next year, there maybe a few other QBs that could be taken ahead of him (Marcus Vick and Brady Quinn).

I really don't think Texas even gets to the title game because I think VT is going to run the table and leapfrog Texas. This is going to be a year that Texas wishes that A&M was tougher competition, for the Heisman AND the National Championship.
If Marcus Vick has the chance of being picked ahead of Vince next year but Vince has the chance of being picked #1 overall this year, are you saying Vick also has the chance of being picked #1 overall this year if he came out?Absolutely not going to happen. The only QB that gets taken ahead of Vince next year is Brian Brohm from Louisville. And that's if he decides to leave early.

I too have predicted VT will leapfrog Texas (somewhere on this board) if they win out. But Texas' SOS is looking pretty good not because of how they finish but because of how much the teams they've already beaten (Ohio State, Tech, Oklahoma, Colorado) are winning. The more they win, the better Texas looks...even if they've already played. But yeah, Vick and the Hokies are the media darlings next to USC and they're (the voters) just looking for a reason to put them ahead of Texas (see: Texas isn't allowed to have a bad first half against OSU but VT is allowed to have a bad game against NC State as well as a bad half against Maryland only to have the game described as "dominating" and it not matter).

I think Vince returns. But it wouldn't surprise me to see him leave.

Right now VT and UT are the exact same team except VT has a better defense. I know UT is ranked better but they are not better. USC will beat UT, because beating UT is the same as beating the Falcons. If OSU would have stayed with their defensive scheme they would have beat UT. I am not knocking Vince because he is an awesome player, maybe even the 4th best player in all of college football, but he does not have it all down just yet to win it all. Young also will not win the Heisman. Bush is a highlight film with no faults. Young has played well everygame, but has not played great everygame. BUSH FOR HEISMAN.... GO USC(Just because I do not want UT to win)
Texas - Ranked 7th nationally in defense
VT - Ranked 2nd nationally in defense

Texas - Ranked 6th nationally in offense
VT - Ranked 44th nationally in offense

Yeah, that pretty much looks the same to me. :rolleyes:

If my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. If Leinart does his job and doesn't fumble the ball out of bounds, USC doesn't even beat Notre Dame.

Could you imagine Vince's numbers if he got to face those PAC-10 defenses every week and wasn't taken out of the game during the late 3rd-early 4th qtr?

beerlover
11-04-2005, 09:02 PM
i dont think texas will be leapfrogged, just because i believe there will only be 2 undefeated teams, texas and alabama. I know that sounds crazy, but bama and texas have the easiest road to a perfect season, usc has to get through a ucla team tailor made to upset them, and virginia tech is going to have to get through miami, and florida state in the acc championship game....i think that the bcs would prefer a usc-texas game, but usc has looked vulnerable against arizona state and notre dame this year, and i dont think they can run the table again

do you have some numbers to support your convictions :cool: you knew that was coming :heh:


1 USC .9767
2 Texas .9729
3 Virginia Tech .9294
4 Alabama .8695
5 UCLA .7874
6 Miami .7566

at the very least a win by VA Tech over Miami tomorrow night tightens the #2 position. a win by USC over UCLA all but guarantees a lock on the #1 bid to the Rose Bowl. While I'm sure after last years sensational game the Rose Bowl committe would love to have Texas back the BCS may say otherwise.

texplayer2
11-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Texas - Ranked 7th nationally in defense
VT - Ranked 2nd nationally in defense

Texas - Ranked 6th nationally in offense
VT - Ranked 44th nationally in offense

If Leinart does his job and doesn't fumble the ball out of bounds, USC doesn't even beat Notre Dame.

?

The rankings are made by the level of competition you face and as such are skewed. I would rather catagorize them by how they play. Texas and VT have dominating Defenses against offenses from there conferences. Ask Oklahoma about their awesome D. in last years Orange Bowl, I believe it was ranked pretty high. On offense they both have a star QB and a good Line. As for the Lienert fumble, if he dosen't fumble the ball he is sitting in the endzone after the play with the ball.( have the game on Tivo, and have watched the last two plays Alot.) So either way they are still undefeated.

Coach C.
11-04-2005, 11:28 PM
Texplayer thanx for getting into that one for me. I could not really get were they were going with that. I think UT and VT are extremely similar and have similar styles of play. This mainly due to similar types of QBs. I thought it was implied that UT was going to play USC in the championship game though.

Huge
11-05-2005, 12:04 AM
The rankings are made by the level of competition you face and as such are skewed. I would rather catagorize them by how they play. Texas and VT have dominating Defenses against offenses from there conferences. Ask Oklahoma about their awesome D. in last years Orange Bowl, I believe it was ranked pretty high. On offense they both have a star QB and a good Line. As for the Lienert fumble, if he dosen't fumble the ball he is sitting in the endzone after the play with the ball.( have the game on Tivo, and have watched the last two plays Alot.) So either way they are still undefeated.
I see what you're saying...

VT's schedule (and their opponent's offensive/defensive national rankings):
NC State - 76/22
Duke - 116/83
Ohio - 90/104
Georgia Tech - 75/19
West Virginia - 73/9
Marshall - 86/31
Maryland - 55/47
Boston College - 45/16

Average - 77/41

Texas' schedule (and their opponents' offensive/defensive national rankings):
ULL - 64/84
Ohio State - 52/13
Rice - 103/114
Missouri - 22/55
Oklahoma - 97/15
Colorado - 57/29
Texas Tech - 2/24
Oklahoma State - 94/94

Average - 61/53

Based on the level of competition faced, do you think my original statement still holds true?

Texas has faced tougher offenses (by an average of 16 spots) and is not far behind VT in total defense. Virginia Tech has faced tougher defenses (by an average of 12 spots) but is way behind Texas in total offense.

I was hoping most would get the point about "ifs" from the line about my aunt.

TexansCanes
11-05-2005, 01:11 AM
If my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. If Leinart does his job and doesn't fumble the ball out of bounds, USC doesn't even beat Notre Dame.



here's another if for you, if leinart doesn't fumble ucs wins the game anyways because leinart falls into the endzone after he fumbles.

for the national championship game, i think it would be a blow out by USC as much as i hate to admit it. i think usc has the linebackers you need to control vince and their coners are decent enough to defend the vince young passing game. leinart seems to be healthy again and pete carroll would out coach brown with the six weeks he has before the game and ut's d wouldn't have a chance against the UCS O.

i think the heisman race is a lot closer than people think. bush has the stats but he also has leinart while ut is Young's team. should be interesting but i think bush wins because of the performce he had against ND, which is sad because i think every one is over rating that game.

swtbound07
11-05-2005, 03:18 AM
do you have some numbers to support your convictions :cool: you knew that was coming :heh:


1 USC .9767
2 Texas .9729
3 Virginia Tech .9294
4 Alabama .8695
5 UCLA .7874
6 Miami .7566

at the very least a win by VA Tech over Miami tomorrow night tightens the #2 position. a win by USC over UCLA all but guarantees a lock on the #1 bid to the Rose Bowl. While I'm sure after last years sensational game the Rose Bowl committe would love to have Texas back the BCS may say otherwise.


i cant show numbers to back up what i predict...cause what im predicting is 2 upsets....and that will be proven on the field. Im just putting it out there, two undefeated teams, texas and alabama, rose bowl....if im wrong, im wrong....but remember who said it first

Huge
11-05-2005, 07:15 AM
for the national championship game, i think it would be a blow out by USC as much as i hate to admit it. i think usc has the linebackers you need to control vince and their coners are decent enough to defend the vince young passing game. leinart seems to be healthy again and pete carroll would out coach brown with the six weeks he has before the game and ut's d wouldn't have a chance against the UCS O.
Who would you say has the better LBers...USC or Ohio State?

beerlover
11-05-2005, 07:47 AM
i cant show numbers to back up what i predict...cause what im predicting is 2 upsets....and that will be proven on the field. Im just putting it out there, two undefeated teams, texas and alabama, rose bowl....if im wrong, im wrong....but remember who said it first

well somewhere I seem to remember you saying "show them us texans can do math!" I guess your wrong on that one too :)

rmartin65
11-05-2005, 08:05 AM
Who would you say has the better LBers...USC or Ohio State?
OSU. Hawk and Carpenter are gonna be great in the NFL.

texplayer2
11-05-2005, 12:23 PM
Could you imagine Vince's numbers if he got to face those PAC-10 defenses every week and wasn't taken out of the game during the late 3rd-early 4th qtr?

I agree that Texas and VT are good teams. I don't believe Vince would be any better at tearing up the Pac-10, then any of the other Offenses in the Pac. Right now its all about the O in the Pac and bend down break defenses. Everyone in the Pac-10 scores about 40 points a game. In most of the rest of the country your defense sets the tone. Ex. the LB's of Ohio St. USC's LB are not going to stop Texas (if they meet in the Rose Bowl) they will slow them down and give USC's Offense enough to come out on top. Ex. Notre Dame game. Notre Dame should have been up by 10 when Lienert and Co. got the ball the final drive.

swtbound07
11-05-2005, 12:40 PM
Marcus Vick is just now showing what he can do. He is the QB that needs one more year. So, NO, he would not be picked ahead of Vince this year. By the end of next year, the answer would be YES. Brady Quinn will also be a higher rated QB by the end of next year as well.


two different animals in my opinion.......you can argue that he wont be as highly RATED, but you cant say with any certainty who would get picked first...nfl gm's are not bound by the realms of conventional logic, as many loyal texans fans can attest to

swtbound07
11-05-2005, 11:12 PM
i dont think texas will be leapfrogged, just because i believe there will only be 2 undefeated teams, texas and alabama. I know that sounds crazy, but bama and texas have the easiest road to a perfect season, usc has to get through a ucla team tailor made to upset them, and virginia tech is going to have to get through miami, and florida state in the acc championship game....i think that the bcs would prefer a usc-texas game, but usc has looked vulnerable against arizona state and notre dame this year, and i dont think they can run the table again


i hate to toot my own crystal ball, but im halfway there......v tech loses to miami...leaving texas, usc, and bama as undefeated..........usc loses to ucla like i think they will, and we have a very real bama-texas game

Vinny
11-05-2005, 11:29 PM
i hate to toot my own crystal ball, but im halfway there......v tech loses to miami...leaving texas, usc, and bama as undefeated..........usc loses to ucla like i think they will, and we have a very real bama-texas game
UCLA was destroyed by Arizona today. I have their 18 year old freshman sensation QB Willie Tuitama on my NCAA fantasy keeper team.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap;_ylt=AnycpJIYlOqCRmRhyKH3WskcvrYF?gid=200511 050057&prov=ap

kbourda
11-06-2005, 12:02 AM
i hate to toot my own crystal ball, but im halfway there......v tech loses to miami...leaving texas, usc, and bama as undefeated..........usc loses to ucla like i think they will, and we have a very real bama-texas game

The only thing is the computers. I really see USC still playing for the National Championship with a loss (if one were to come about) to the Bruins. No way the BCS and ABC puts Texas against Alabama in the Rose Bowl for the title. N-O W-A-Y!

texplayer2
11-06-2005, 12:55 AM
No way the BCS and ABC puts Texas against Alabama in the Rose Bowl for the title.

Bama would get two-stepped on. They don't even score on offense? I don't use crystal balls ,but I see bama not going undefeated, and a Dynamic Rose Bowl between the only two undefeated teams in the country. Last team with the ball wins.

swtbound07
11-06-2005, 02:40 AM
The only thing is the computers. I really see USC still playing for the National Championship with a loss (if one were to come about) to the Bruins. No way the BCS and ABC puts Texas against Alabama in the Rose Bowl for the title. N-O W-A-Y!

if their was an undefeated team that got snubbed for a one loss usc, all h-e double hockey sticks would break loose.....ucla losing tonight leads me to believe they will have motivation...they've got nothing to lose, usc has everything....and bama might not score on offense, but southern miss didnt score at all......texas vs. bama

texplayer2
11-06-2005, 09:05 AM
The only thing is the computers. I really see USC still playing for the National Championship with a loss (if one were to come about) to the Bruins. No way the BCS and ABC puts Texas against Alabama in the Rose Bowl for the title. N-O W-A-Y!

IF UCLA makes it to the USC game with one loss and beats USC they would be the conference champion and would make USC unable to play for the BCS championship. I believe that was added when Oklahoma backed into the title game two years ago. IF they lose to UCLA they don't deserve to play for the championship. Not going to happen "this year".