PDA

View Full Version : Vince young


Pages : [1] 2

College Texan
10-28-2005, 01:17 PM
If vince young decides to come out this year, I say we look to draft him in the mid-first and convert him to wide reciever. I don't think anybody would want to gamble on his throwing motion, but will want his athletisism somewhere else, I can already picture Aj and young on opposite sides....I can dream cant I

Texas
10-28-2005, 01:25 PM
That sounds like a decent idea. Can VY catch well?

College Texan
10-28-2005, 01:30 PM
I bet he can, I imagine VY and matt jones about the same

Nawzer
10-28-2005, 01:37 PM
Vince Young is not going to be a mid-first round pick. He's going to be a top ten pick and possibly a top 3 pick this year or next year. And I'd prefer him at QB.

Fiddy
10-28-2005, 02:23 PM
Vince Young will be a All Pro QB. He does not want to move to WR and wont because he is a heck of a QB. He has a gun for an arm but, unlike Carr, knows when to put the touch on the ball. He will put the ball where the WR can catch it and only the WR. He stays in the pocket until the last possible second before scrambling for 20 yards.

And he has already said that he is staying for his senior year athough that could change if he wins the Heisman and/or a National Championship. It would be intresting if playing close to home in the NFL has any impact on his decision.

Vinny
10-28-2005, 02:33 PM
Bob Griese was stating that Young is no longer challenged by College defenses and will need to get into the NFL before anyone is going to be able to stop him on a regular basis. He will be a QB in the NFL, a top 5 pick and I think he will be a superstar.

Fiddy
10-28-2005, 03:08 PM
Although his throwing motion is poor and lack of accuracy while being fully protected, I do think Vince has improved enough to warrant a top 5 pick. He has passed by all other QB prospects other than Brady Quinn, including Leinart. The throwing motion may not work for you but it sure as hell works for him (65.6% this season). Just cause the throwing motion doesnt look good doesnt mean that it doesnt work...

College Texan
10-28-2005, 03:28 PM
I wonder if the ttech secondary was on to him when they picks him twice, I was just saying who would gamble on his throwing motion, I would go for his athleticism which I already know is good and convert im to WR, it would be a heck of an offfense to have him and Aj line up, they couold be two possesion WR's that make things happen with their feet, and imagine the Aj reverse we run with young having the option to run or throw to Aj.

Fiddy
10-28-2005, 03:32 PM
I didnt see the Tech game (I was taking the ACT and getting ready for Homecoming) so I dont know what the INTs were like. But on a good amount of the INTs this year, the problem has not been Young but WRs not fighting for the ball. I remember one INT against Rice (I think) where Young threw the ball to Sweed but the Rice CB wanted the ball more than Sweed did...

tulexan
10-28-2005, 05:07 PM
They were dumb interceptions and he got lucky on a few more. I still think that there is not enough confidence yet in his passing. One more year in college he should be fine.

MorKnolle
10-28-2005, 05:38 PM
If vince young decides to come out this year, I say we look to draft him in the mid-first and convert him to wide reciever. I don't think anybody would want to gamble on his throwing motion, but will want his athletisism somewhere else, I can already picture Aj and young on opposite sides....I can dream cant I

That would be pointless. Vince Young is slower than Gaffney or any other receiver on our team and I would be willing to bet he can't catch as well either, so other than him being 6'5" he would be inferior in any way to any WR currently on our team.

Vince Young has stated he is not coming out this year so it won't matter anyways, but as a few people have mentioned if he did come out he would be picked early first round, likely in the top 5. Vince will want to stay at QB since that has been his position and he has stated that he does not want to switch positions at all. Drafting him at QB would be even more pointless as he is not much, if any, faster than David Carr and has a noodle of an arm compared to Carr.

Vinny
10-28-2005, 05:44 PM
He grew up in Houston too. Slow and Noodle for an arm? lolololol

College Texan
10-28-2005, 05:46 PM
Vince young comes out this year if he has any smarts, his feet are what set him apart, if he were immobile would he be good, i think not, will he do good passingw/o j.scott? no. If he doesn't come out this year, he can only take so many hits running, risk getting injured and ruining your chances of getting drafted early would not be a wise choice, come out while your on top YV. Remember Jason White. SO what if you rthe third taken this year (Leinart, Jocobs)

College Texan
10-28-2005, 05:49 PM
How can he be slow, have ya seen him outrun defenders. As good an athlete as he is, he can get the catching thing down. I remember seing his highlight reel from highschool, mythodical stuff.

tulexan
10-28-2005, 06:00 PM
Jason White is a completely different story because he had zero chance of ever becoming a pro quarterback.

Vince should stay because his passing is not at a pro level yet. He needs one more season to improve it some more. He has improved but he is still making stupid mistakes that would be turnovers in the NFL.

El Tejano
10-29-2005, 01:43 PM
Okay, so let me ask this:

If the Texans end up with pick #1 do you think Young will change his mind and go pro National Championship or no national championship and Heisman or no Heisman?

and

Do you think the Texans should take him with the #1 pick even though as we all know it is appearant we need Oline help?

Coach C.
10-29-2005, 01:46 PM
Vince Young would be a terrible pick for the Texans. We have a QB in David Carr and Young will take 3years before he can even be close to his talent. Vince will be a decent QB in the league about the same area as Randal Cunningham with maybe less of an arm.

tulexan
10-29-2005, 01:49 PM
Okay, so let me ask this:

If the Texans end up with pick #1 do you think Young will change his mind and go pro National Championship or no national championship and Heisman or no Heisman?

and

Do you think the Texans should take him with the #1 pick even though as we all know it is appearant we need Oline help?


No

and

No

LikeABoss
10-29-2005, 03:14 PM
I'm sensing alot of hate and resentment for Vince Young on this board.

It's like some people are just hoping this dude will fail, and they even make baseless assessments and assumptions of this man's game just to further validate their skewed views.

I'm wondering have any of these people even sat and watched this dude play at all this year?

Cause I don't see how anyone would think this guy would not be a successful Qb in the NFL.

Some people are so quick to point out that he threw 2 ints against T Tech to validate their little biased view towards Young, but at the same time they turn around and completely avoid the fact that he came back and threw 2 TD's against Tech in that game.

He threw 2 int's against Tech, so what, stuff like that is gonna happen to any Qb, even the best of them. Hell didn't the Houston Texans pick off Peyton Manning last Sunday? From my understanding, the Texans are the worst team in the league both offensively and especially defensively and they still managed to pick of the one of the best Qbs in the league.

People need to stop reaching on arguments to discredit Young's game.

*Shakes his head in disgust and leaves the thread*

Fiddy
10-29-2005, 03:41 PM
Okay, so let me ask this:

If the Texans end up with pick #1 do you think Young will change his mind and go pro National Championship or no national championship and Heisman or no Heisman?

and

Do you think the Texans should take him with the #1 pick even though as we all know it is appearant we need Oline help? It depends on how much playing for his hometown means to him

and

Yes because Young is a gamebreaker

Coach C.
10-29-2005, 04:12 PM
I am not a Young detractor, because I think he will be a quality QB in this league for years. Do I think if we have a shot at Young, an elite LT, or Reggie Bush do we take Young-Hell No. Is he better than Carr no. He has an adequate arm with a delivery that has to be adjusted and accuracy that has to be worked on. Vince Young's arm is bigger than Leinhart, but of the top QB's he is in the lower end of arm strength and his accuracy is not very good. What he does know how to do is throw the ball up. That is an interception in this league. He is likely faster than Carr, but he would be destroyed behind our line. I do think that if he goes to the right situation he could become a good QB. Suppose he comes out and goes to the Dolphins, he will be a really good fit for their offense style, but it will take him 3 years to be the QB that you all think he will. His football IQ is just not up to standard. He has less FB IQ than Aaron Rogers.

LikeABoss
10-29-2005, 04:42 PM
his accuracy is not very good

I shouldn't even continue to waste my time responding to crap like this, but just this one time I will discredit this and them I'm done.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=135107
Vince Young's completion % = 65.6

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511
Matt Leinart's completion % = 64.7

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=150329
Brady Quinn's completion % = 65.8

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=135239
Marcus Vick's completion % = 69.0

Quinn's completion % is better than Young's by just .2%, and Marcus Vick completion % is better than all 3 of the top Qb's I've justed listed.

People need to STOP being delusional!

Vince Young and Marcus Vick will make great NFL Qbs, anyone that thinks otherwise are just delusional and indenial.

*LikeABoss sits back and wait for some indenial delusional loser to try and discredit the accuracy statistics he just posted, but he will refuse to respond to their dedicated ignorance*

College Texan
10-29-2005, 04:55 PM
Vince Young is a great athlete, but to look at him as a great QB is delusional, not many people can compare to the pro-vick yet when another guy with decent feat comes along ya proclaim him the next MV. The truth of the matter is you can put any athlete who can run in the backfield but they won't be good QB's, A nfl qb takes something else, an arm, to succeed. Think of how many great ahtletic qb's in college have actually turned out great. you need to be able to throw first run second and more importantly have the right mind to play qb. maybe i'm just old and the game is revolutionizing before my very eyes. :sarcasm: vince young could turn out alright but he would be better at WR in my opinion.

tulexan
10-29-2005, 05:11 PM
I'm not saying that Vince Young won't eventually be a good pro QB, I'm just saying that he needs 1 more year of college plus a season or two sitting and learning in the pros. Michael Vick can get away with being a sub par passer because he can run a 4.25 40. But his injuries are catching up to him and if his passing does not improve he won't be in the league too much longer because he will be in a wheel chair. Vince Young is fast, but not nearly as fast as Vick. His passing is equal or a little bit worse than Vick's too. Vince will be a good pro, it is just going to take some time. We have a good QB with David Carr. If we give him protection he will give us some production. I'm not trying to be a Vince Young basher, I am trying to be realistic and do what's best for the team.

Fiddy
10-29-2005, 05:13 PM
Michael Vick can get away with being a sub par passer because he can run a 4.25 40. He can get away with it cause he wins and that is the only stat that counts.

Fiddy
10-29-2005, 05:30 PM
And that is the reason Vince will be successful: he finds ways to win. I agree 100%

kbourda
10-30-2005, 01:05 AM
It's funny how people spell doom and gloom on Vincent Young after every performance. Before the season started people were saying he can't pass but he can run. Now that he's proving that he can pass now it's his throwing motion. Now he still makes dumb mistakes. So on and so forth. But in all of this rhetoric no one ever makes the mention that he wills this team to wins. Of course, he doesn't do it alone. So in spite of the ints, the throwing motion, the bad decisions, everything is just fine. And Vincent Young makes sure of that.

rmartin65
10-30-2005, 06:36 AM
He just had a heck of a game. 500 total yards.

Texans Horror
10-30-2005, 06:46 AM
I have never seen a player make it look so easy as I have seen Vince do when he is making a play. His thrown balls look sloppy, like something I could lob. His run looks slow and almost ostrich-like at times, real long-legged running. He holds the ball away from him. His "command" of the field comes off as very streetball. He'll point to a kid and show him where to run (left) so that he can toss him the ball as he runs "right." Basically, he's doing everything wrong.

Except that he's doing everything right. He has a great completion percentage, good QB rating, and over 1000 yards passing. If the defense doesn't grab him within three yards of the line, they won't be able to catch him. He has the poise and leadership of Patton and Favre rolled up together. He is a playmaker, and IMO the best thing in College Football right now.

I see no reason why any team would want to draft Young if they are watching why I am watching unless they are seeing what I see.

Vinny
10-30-2005, 07:45 AM
I'm sensing alot of hate and resentment for Vince Young on this board.It's remarkable really. He is a Houston kid who grew up in Houston and who was a remarkable Houston High School Quarterback. We have had the priviledge of watching him play ball as a kid as he rises to the pros...you would think that he would get more respect here.

Johnny Utah
10-30-2005, 08:12 AM
I love Vince Young's will to win, but I also don't think he is very accurate. He has a high completion %, but the players he hits are wide open most of the time. He has a tendency to miss these wide open players a lot also.

However, if Young comes out in 2007 I hope the Texans draft him after we solidify our line in the 2006 draft. He is a leader, winner, and he just makes big plays. Our offensive coordinator will have to devise a special offensive scheme built around Vince's abilities.

Fiddy
10-30-2005, 10:46 AM
He has a high completion %, but the players he hits are wide open most of the time. He has a tendency to miss these wide open players a lot also. His TD passes werent wide up. He had to place the ball over the LBs and to the only place where the CB couldnt get it. The 80 yard TD run was amazing and he has already mastered something Carr hasnt done once in his career: A pump-fake

He had a TD called back, on the INT I'm pretty sure the WR stopped, Ump gets in the way on one 3rd down and I counted 4 drops by his WRs...

Vinny
10-30-2005, 10:51 AM
Yeah...the wr's dropped several yesterday in the first half alone.

WWJD
10-30-2005, 12:53 PM
People that know alot about football have been saying that Vince was the real deal since his high school days. All I know is the guy has incredible talent and he can and will carry a team on his shoulders. He's exactly what any team needs. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Bubbajwp
10-30-2005, 02:35 PM
I would love for the Texans to draft Vince Young, Reggie Bush or Marcus Vick. Just not this year. This year we build the oline and the defense. Next year go back to the skill positions RB, WR, and QB.

WWJD
10-30-2005, 03:47 PM
"People that know alot about football" said he had the potential. As we all know, potential doesn't always come through. In Vince's first few years, it wasn't apparent that he would grow into the QB he has become. I am glad he seems to be fulfilling his promise.

As far as people who know alot about football: they are right about as often as the weatherman. I sure wish I could get paid good money to be wrong as often as they are!


I didn't say a word about potential. I said people were saying he was the real deal. And he is the real deal!

Hook em!

tulexan
10-30-2005, 04:59 PM
How about we build our line up before even worrying about QB or RB? We will never even be a mediocre team with the line we have. It wouldn't matter if our RB was Tomlinson, our receivers were TO and Moss, and our QB was Manning. Without a good line you can't do anything. Instead of thinking about drafting Young or Bush, think about drafting Ferguson or Winston. And anyone who does not realize this does not know anything about football and is just being a UT homer.

tulexan
10-30-2005, 05:39 PM
Every good college player puts up ridiculous stats in high school. How do you think they get recruited by top programs? High school means nothing going into the NCAA, and the NCAA means nothing going into the NFL. Where is the "real deal" Ron Dayne now? Some great college players are busts in the pros and some mediocre college players are great in the pros. I don't think anyone ever thought that Tom Brady was going to be the real deal and now he has 3 rings.

nunusguy
10-30-2005, 06:52 PM
If VY isn't a great success in the pros, I will be very surprised because he
is a phenomenal athelete who is also a phenomenal competitor and team
leader. I mean this kid is a "world class athelete", and honetly I'm not exagerating. Can you imagine Vince as a competitor in the Olympics in the
decathlon event ? I can because he can run, jump, throw: high jump, sprints,
javelin, discus, etc. He does it all. I don't know who will win the Heisman this year, but I'm confidant that VY is the best football player in college this year.
Maybe the best in quite a few years.

WWJD
10-30-2005, 09:08 PM
I give up. No winning on this thread.

tulexan
10-30-2005, 10:04 PM
No one will ever agree on this thread because there is too much emotion and bias. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that because there is nothing wrong with supporting a local guy or a player from your one of your favorite college teams, but those people cannot truly look at the situation independently and rationally.

Vince Young is a great player and if he does not win the Heisman this year, he will probably win it next year. His passing has gone from awful to good, but not great. Most importantly, he finds ways to win. But unfortunately none of that matters in the NFL. If it did, then Eric Crouch would have been a top pick. Vince Young will probably end up being a good, if not great NFL quarterback, but it is going to take time. He is going to have to sit and learn for at least one season and probably two. The comparisons to Michael Vick are unfair because Michael's running game is on a completely different level. Vince is a great runner there is no doubt about that, but he does not have the flat out speed that Michael has. Michael is not only the fastest QB, but also would be the fastest RB in the league. Vince's speed is probably a little bit faster than McNabb. They both run around a 4.4 40. The difference is that McNabb is a great passer in NFL standards, while Vince is right now poor at NFL standards.

Basically what I am trying to say is that I know a lot of you would love to have Vince Young on the Texans because he is a local guy who is playing for your team, but by drafting him you are basically conceeding the next few years when all you have to do is draft and sign a few linemen in a deep linemen draft to make the team good next year. We have a good quarterback right now. We just need to give him some protection and one or two more weapons and he can show us why we drafted him #1. We have seen what he can do when he has protection and weapons with the Vikings game last year.

Texans_Chick
10-30-2005, 10:29 PM
Why is that people in this thread are saying VY is slow? I've watched every game he has played and uh, I don't see it.

This is a link that someone sent me at the beginning of the season of last year's Vince highlights, labeled Vince Young's Heisman Video. Sorry if this has been posted a bunch but it is just so fine deluxe:

http://badblocks.biz/~jcdenton/VinceYoung(Twisted3434).wmv

And that is from LAST year--this year he is even better.

He is wonderful to watch because it is so obvious how much he wants to win and refuses to be tackled. It is like he is wearing teflon. How can someone who is 6'5" have those quicks?

It was hilarious how many times he faked out the cameraman against OKSt. I guess those TNT cameraguys are easily deked.

For me, he is the type of player that might make me turn in my cable boxes and do the Sunday Ticket thingy.

He would be a benefit to any NFL team and my worst football fear is that he will end up being drafted down the road by a team I despise. I would die. He is not allowed to go to a divisional rival or Dallas. He just can't. No no no and no.

He is too fun to watch, will be successful in the NFL, and it would make me genuinely sad to have to root against him.

Texans_Chick
10-30-2005, 10:45 PM
No one will ever agree on this thread because there is too much emotion and bias. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that because there is nothing wrong with supporting a local guy or a player from your one of your favorite college teams, but those people cannot truly look at the situation independently and rationally.

Vince Young is a great player and if he does not win the Heisman this year, he will probably win it next year. His passing has gone from awful to good, but not great. Most importantly, he finds ways to win. But unfortunately none of that matters in the NFL. If it did, then Eric Crouch would have been a top pick. Vince Young will probably end up being a good, if not great NFL quarterback, but it is going to take time. He is going to have to sit and learn for at least one season and probably two. The comparisons to Michael Vick are unfair because Michael's running game is on a completely different level. Vince is a great runner there is no doubt about that, but he does not have the flat out speed that Michael has. Michael is not only the fastest QB, but also would be the fastest RB in the league. Vince's speed is probably a little bit faster than McNabb. They both run around a 4.4 40. The difference is that McNabb is a great passer in NFL standards, while Vince is right now poor at NFL standards.

Basically what I am trying to say is that I know a lot of you would love to have Vince Young on the Texans because he is a local guy who is playing for your team, but by drafting him you are basically conceeding the next few years when all you have to do is draft and sign a few linemen in a deep linemen draft to make the team good next year. We have a good quarterback right now. We just need to give him some protection and one or two more weapons and he can show us why we drafted him #1. We have seen what he can do when he has protection and weapons with the Vikings game last year.

!??!

Vince Young is to Eric Crouch as Lucianno Pavarotti is to William Hung. Or would you prefer: as Angelina Jolie is to Rosie O'Donnell. He's smoking and unique--and not a physical body type that would have a hard time doing well in the NFL, like Crouch. Vince Young is not just one of those amazing athletes that can only succeed in college. He makes the other team look stupid and his own players look better--what you want in a player.

I'm not a David Carr hater, but VY is a football player like no one I have ever seen. There are the Vick comparisons but he is his own deal. There may be teams in the league he might have an easier time making the transition with, but he will succeed no matter where he goes, baring injury.

Anyone passing up Vince Young will feel like someone who passed up Michael Jordan to pick Sam Bowie.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 08:08 AM
Anyone passing up Vince Young will feel like someone who passed up Michael Jordan to pick Sam Bowie.nice :cool:Why is that people in this thread are saying VY is slow? I've watched every game he has played and uh, I don't see it.Just proves that just because you can type, it doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.

beerlover
10-31-2005, 09:02 AM
Anyone passing up Vince Young will feel like someone who passed up Michael Jordan to pick Sam Bowie.

I made this same comparison a week ago comparing Reggie Bush instead of Vince Young:rolleyes:

Coach C.
10-31-2005, 11:37 AM
Comparing Reggie Bush or Vince Young to Michael Jordan is assinine.

Everyone knows that Vince Young has talent and no one is questioning that, I think the major question is will his shortcomings be overly exploited in the pros. I think VY will be a terrific QB in the pros in the same mold as Randall Cunningham. He is about as fast, same awkward delivery, and he will fight for every yard whether running or passing. If he goes to the right team he will be a talent and is likely the number 1 pick next year. Right now he is likely the third best QB in college football next to Quinn and Jacobs.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 12:07 PM
I don't think its assinine to compare elite talent to other elite talent in a way to make a point. He is a tremendous talent and I'd consider him pretty elite since he completes nearly 70% of his passes in addition to his tremendous running skills. He compares to Cunningham in build only really. Cunningham never had the over the top running skills Young has....Cunningham was a good runner, but nothing like Young. You can get away with a funky delivery...just ask David Carr or Bernie Kosar. You don't have to throw 100% over the top to get the ball where you want it to go.

wags
10-31-2005, 12:47 PM
He is a tremendous talent and I'd consider him pretty elite since he completes nearly 70% of his passes in addition to his tremendous running skills.

Since when does 63.2% qualify as nearly 70%? By the way, he isn't even in the top 25 for completion percentage.

No doubt that the guy is a great football player though.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 01:08 PM
well it was close to 70% but I didn't check after this game. Apparently it's come down a bit.

Fiddy
10-31-2005, 01:10 PM
well it was close to 70% but I didn't check after this game. Apparently it's come down a bit. Yeah, completion rates drop when recievers drop 4 to 6 balls a game...

profan
10-31-2005, 02:17 PM
I'm sensing alot of hate and resentment for Vince Young on this board.

It's like some people are just hoping this dude will fail, and they even make baseless assessments and assumptions of this man's game just to further validate their skewed views.

I'm wondering have any of these people even sat and watched this dude play at all this year?

Cause I don't see how anyone would think this guy would not be a successful Qb in the NFL.

Some people are so quick to point out that he threw 2 ints against T Tech to validate their little biased view towards Young, but at the same time they turn around and completely avoid the fact that he came back and threw 2 TD's against Tech in that game.

He threw 2 int's against Tech, so what, stuff like that is gonna happen to any Qb, even the best of them. Hell didn't the Houston Texans pick off Peyton Manning last Sunday? From my understanding, the Texans are the worst team in the league both offensively and especially defensively and they still managed to pick of the one of the best Qbs in the league.

People need to stop reaching on arguments to discredit Young's game.

*Shakes his head in disgust and leaves the thread*


Your way too sensative. I have not seen any hate towards Vince Young on this board. I'm a huge fan of the longhorns and Vince Young, he will struggle some at first in the nfl, as does every qb, but he will be one of the great qb's in the long run. That being said, the texans have too many holes to fill and would not be able to develop vince young. texans need to stay with Carr and get this line corrected. Drafting vince young and putting him behind our line would destroy his nfl career, just like it is doing to DC.

Bubbajwp
10-31-2005, 02:37 PM
I dont care if VY is a elite prospect or whatever you cant compare him to MJ. Michael Jordan is the best of all time. VY isnt even considered by most as the best player in collage right know much less of all time. If your comparing VY to MJ when he was in collage then thats a different story.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 02:58 PM
If your comparing VY to MJ when he was in collage then thats a different story.
I can't speak for her but I don't think she was comparing 'MJ the finished product' to 'VY the kid a few years out of HS'. She was talking about not passing what she views as elite talent to take 'conventional thinking'. Bowie was the conventional choice that year and Portland took it.

TheOgre
10-31-2005, 03:13 PM
Matt Jones and Vince Young have that long stride speed that is deceptive. It looks like they are running a lot slower than they actually are.

I would like to see Vince Young go back to Texas for his senior year. I think another solid year will show the scouts that his passing game has come around. He seems to be a different man ever since the last drive of the 1st half against OSU last year. That game and the Tech game seemed to have jump-started his passing game.

My only knock against Young, is that his turnovers seem to come in pairs. I rarely see him throw one INT without fumbling or throwing another INT a possession or two later.

That game on Saturday changed the Heisman race to a two man show between him and Reggie Bush. I think it will come down to those two when it is all said and done.

Huge
10-31-2005, 04:53 PM
Phil Horvath leads the nation with a 70.3% completion. Does that make him the most accurate passer in college?

real
10-31-2005, 06:11 PM
Why does everyone think they know whats going to happen? You guys are all making valid points but no one actually KNOWS what vince young will do?

real
10-31-2005, 07:00 PM
Who would actually be terribly upset if the texans did some how get Vince Young?

Fiddy
10-31-2005, 08:06 PM
Why does everyone think they know whats going to happen? You guys are all making valid points but no one actually KNOWS what vince young will do? This is a message board where people have opinions that they want to share. If people didnt try to predict what will happen, their wouldnt be a need for a sports message board...

real
10-31-2005, 08:12 PM
thats fine...making predictions and all.... but i said KNOW whats going to happen, not why does everyone predict whats going to happen.....

metalmike
10-31-2005, 08:13 PM
Vince Young is not comming out early. He already said he wants to stay for his senior year. Also, pretty much every standout UT football player stays for their senior year. Go Longhorns!! Can't wait till Rose Bowl when they shut everybody up about USC. If USC gets past UCLA. Hook Em Horns !!!!!!!!!!!
The only good football team in Texas!

real
10-31-2005, 08:15 PM
Know....predict?????

metalmike
10-31-2005, 08:20 PM
I know UT will bring home 2 straight championships with Vince Young

tulexan
10-31-2005, 08:52 PM
Who would actually be terribly upset if the texans did some how get Vince Young?

I wouldn't. I think he and AJ would be great book end wide outs for David Carr.

Texans_Chick
10-31-2005, 09:28 PM
I can't speak for her but I don't think she was comparing 'MJ the finished product' to 'VY the kid a few years out of HS'. She was talking about not passing what she views as elite talent to take 'conventional thinking'. Bowie was the conventional choice that year and Portland took it.

Agreed.

Actually, the Bowie/Jordan phrase I used as shorthand is probably unfair to Bowie. Who knows what sort of player he might have been had he not been injured? And had the Bulls had the second pick that season, it is quite likely that they would have picked Bowie because of their lack of a dominant big man and the prevailing belief at the time that you needed a big man to win--the conventional wisdom Vinny was talking about.

The Jordan pick was just a fluke of draft order.

The college Jordan, soon to be drafted, was not at the time considered a once in a lifetime talent. Dean Smith's team oriented play may not have showcased his remarkable skills to their fullest. And at that time, there was a question mark about whether he could be an outside shooter--later erased in his pro career by his desire to continuously improve his remarkable skills.

Young has already done his showcase, although, I do agree with others than another college season would be nice for both him and the horns.

Barring injury, it would be like a stronger faster Randall Cunningham, in an era where it is not such a knock to be able to run. Or maybe Culpepper and Vick in a blender--fast, elusive and hard to bring down. Young makes me run out of superlatives or comparisons because he does something each week that both surprises me and not surprises me at the same time. You do worry some about injuries because of how much he exposes himself to tackles, but he is elusive.

But he makes you consider the age old question--do you draft for need or draft for the best available guy--in the era of the salary cap, it makes things more difficult that way, but if you want somebody bad enough, you can play around with stuff.

Texans Horror
10-31-2005, 10:08 PM
Agreed.

But he makes you consider the age old question--do you draft for need or draft for the best available guy--in the era of the salary cap, it makes things more difficult that way, but if you want somebody bad enough, you can play around with stuff.

This is really interesting because, assuming we continue to stink, the Texans will get to answer this question. If we go for the best players in the draft, then we are looking at Bush, Young, or Lionheart. If we are drafting to the need, then it's o-line time.

I will always give Vince this much: ever since the Rose Bowl, he has really given me some awesome football to watch.

tulexan
10-31-2005, 10:24 PM
I think it is really hard to compare a football player to a basketball player because in football everyone is so dependent on the entire team. A great basketball player can single handedly lead a team to greatness. A football player is dependent on linemen, quarterbacks, wideouts, and running backs. Putting a quarterback behind a terrible line is like putting a great basketball team on a team full of midgets. Or giving a great race car driver a terrible car. Football is the ultimate team sport, and if you keep on ignoring the most important part of the team (the line) you will NEVER be a great team regardless of who you have taking snaps. Before we even consider drafting position players we need to address the line and address it with multiple picks.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 10:33 PM
She wasn't comparing a football player to a basketball player. She was comparing the dilema of taking 'safer picks' over possible greatness.

Vinny
10-31-2005, 10:34 PM
This is really interesting because, assuming we continue to stink, the Texans will get to answer this question. If we go for the best players in the draft, then we are looking at Bush, Young, or Leinart. If we are drafting to the need, then it's o-line time.Fixed it. There is no such person as Matt Lionheart

tulexan
10-31-2005, 10:51 PM
She wasn't comparing a football player to a basketball player. She was comparing the dilema of taking 'safer picks' over possible greatness.


I understand that, but what I am saying is that in football the safer pick (i.e. OL) is sometimes more important to a team than the greatness because football is much more of a team oriented sport than any other sport. In the case of the Texans, it's a nobrainer. Not drafting a lineman with our first pick would be as much of a head scratcher as the Lions continually picking WRs with their first pick. If our first pick is not Winston, Ferguson, or McNeil, then our draft is a failure. When you have the chance to take a potential perrenial probowl LT (the most important position on the line) or at least a solid LT for the next 5-10 years, you take them without hesitation unless you have Jonathan Ogden or Orlando Pace.

The Rams had the Greatest Show on Turf because they had an unbelievable line. Jamal Lewis almost broke the rushing record because they had an unbelievable line. Priest Holmes broke the touchdown record because he has an unbelievable line. The Broncos run at will because they have an unbelievable line. Brett Favre had all of his success the past 10 or so years because he was behind an unbelievable line.

If we want to be successful we have to have a good line. We have the worst line in the league right now by far. So if it is between taking a safe pick or a greatness pick, I am taking the safe pick right now because we can fill our team with a bunch of great position players but without the line they are useless.

Fiddy
10-31-2005, 11:24 PM
Fixed it. There is no such person as Matt Lionheart With me and you Vinny, we have 6 people who support banning the term "Lionheart."

Youngstown Colt
Bubbajwp
Huge
rmartin65


http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=169753#post169753

Vinny
10-31-2005, 11:28 PM
ha! Matt ********* is no more!

Fiddy
10-31-2005, 11:29 PM
ha! Matt ********* is no more! Victory!!! :yahoo:

Napa Auto Parts
11-01-2005, 01:17 AM
Hey that Matt van damme Movie thats start with and L was pretty sweet alot of people are gonna call him that when ever the texans draft him.
I still remember that great Poster Elite Came Out with that referrence to matt Ligerheart.

Huge
11-01-2005, 07:26 AM
ha! Matt ********* is no more!
http://www.nfl-fans.com/html/emoticons/party2.gif


The only time a player should come out early is when his stock can't go any higher. As it stands now, Young is going to have to stay another year to improve his stock as a QB.

Vinny
11-01-2005, 07:55 AM
I still remember that great Poster Elite Came Out with that referrence to matt Ligerheart.Well, you have done a better job this go around.

Blake
11-01-2005, 01:45 PM
I dont see Young or Leinart coming to Houston.

$20 says we keep Carr, and continue to build around him. I wouldnt put it past the new Head Coach to take a OT, and OG, 1-2 in the draft.

MorKnolle
11-01-2005, 03:33 PM
Who would actually be terribly upset if the texans did some how get Vince Young?

I would. David Carr can be a great QB still and we definitely have other glaring issues to fill. Putting Young at WR would also be ridiculous. While I do think that Young will be a decent to very good QB some day, it makes no sense for us to draft him, assuming he even comes out this year which he most likely will not. If we end up with a top 3 pick, and it looks like we probably will, we should trade down a couple spots and draft the best OL that is in the draft, whoever that happens to be when the draft comes. After that we should look to get more help on the OL, get a better pass rusher, either a LB or DE depending on what defensive system we will be running next year, and another CB that can cover someone better than Faggins and Buchanon are currently doing

Texans_Chick
11-01-2005, 04:26 PM
I understand that, but what I am saying is that in football the safer pick (i.e. OL) is sometimes more important to a team than the greatness because football is much more of a team oriented sport than any other sport. In the case of the Texans, it's a nobrainer. Not drafting a lineman with our first pick would be as much of a head scratcher as the Lions continually picking WRs with their first pick. If our first pick is not Winston, Ferguson, or McNeil, then our draft is a failure. When you have the chance to take a potential perrenial probowl LT (the most important position on the line) or at least a solid LT for the next 5-10 years, you take them without hesitation unless you have Jonathan Ogden or Orlando Pace.

The Rams had the Greatest Show on Turf because they had an unbelievable line. Jamal Lewis almost broke the rushing record because they had an unbelievable line. Priest Holmes broke the touchdown record because he has an unbelievable line. The Broncos run at will because they have an unbelievable line. Brett Favre had all of his success the past 10 or so years because he was behind an unbelievable line.

If we want to be successful we have to have a good line. We have the worst line in the league right now by far. So if it is between taking a safe pick or a greatness pick, I am taking the safe pick right now because we can fill our team with a bunch of great position players but without the line they are useless.


You only pick an O-Line guy high if you are certain he is going to dominate on the next level, like Pace was. I am not sure of that at this time for next year draft. This is not a slam dunk issue as there are successful lines made from top picks and successful lines that were manufactured from pieces and parts.

Anyhow, Vinny was right, I was only making the MJ analogy talking about need v. talent, but if you want a football comparison, here goes....

In 1975, the Colts traded down to 3 help them with a need. Steve Bartowski went first, Randy White went second. The Colts with the third pick took Ken Huff. It wasn't the great crop of O-linemen that year, but they had a need.

And they didn't have a need for running back, so they picked Huff and passed on another guy that was available, some guy named Walter Payton.

Now, if any of the Oline guys in the draft really are Orlando Pace clones, then maybe we should take them. But, if we are so desperate and take a hyped up Tony Mandarich kinda guy and pass on a rare talent, it will make the DJ/TJ debate look like nuthin.

As for VY coming out, I have no idea and I am guessing he really doesn't either, until the season ends. A 2007 draft with an improved seasoned VY would be hard to pass, no matter what your needs are. As I said, I don't know if the Texans will be ever in a position to make him work, but I just don't want him to go to Dallas or a division rival because it would kill me. Want to be able to root for him wherever he goes because he is a joy to watch.

BTW, does anyone know if there is a 2005 internet video of VY out there like last year's clip video? Just wondering.

tulexan
11-01-2005, 05:27 PM
Well Ferguson, or Winston if he returns to his pre-injury form, is supposed to be one of the best LT's the draft has seen in a long time. Maybe it is just me not being a Texas guy and not being die hard about Vince Young, but I think that a LT that is at the level of Ferguson and Winston is too good to pass up. Vince Young is very exciting to watch and is vastly improved but he is still very raw at QB. The risk of taking Young is much higher than taking a proven LT like Ferguson and Winston and we don't have the option of taking a highly risky pick who may or may not pan out in the next few years. Young is extremely athletic, but athleticism only takes you so far in the NFL. On an NFL scale of 1-10 for passing, right now he is a 2 or 3. His running is a 7 or 8, but you have to be at least a decent passer in the NFL and right now I don't see it. That's not to say that he won't develop into a great passer, which he very well could, but I would rather have the LT who could be a perrenial pro bowler or at least solid pass protector for the next 10 years.

real
11-01-2005, 05:57 PM
If the texans end up with the 1st pick, they will have so many options. The only player that i dont want them to pick is *********. other than that They can have at it. It's only a two players on the whole team that cant be replaced DR & AJ....period

beerlover
11-01-2005, 06:03 PM
We all need to relax, take our time until the season is finished and declarations for early entry into the draft have been announced. Overwhelmingly on this board Vince Young is mentioned with the greatest collegiate football player's ever, should he help Texas win a National Championship this year, then come back for a return trip, like Matt ******* or Reggie Bush, we all have our opinions.

But at the end of the day the best choice, not just because of need but upside as well is going to be D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He should only get better and better and be an all-pro in 2-3 years, the improvement to the Texans would be immediate and impressive, just as much as the other great players mentioned in this thread :twocents:

tulexan
11-01-2005, 06:05 PM
thank you

Fiddy
11-01-2005, 06:47 PM
Highlights (not from this year...)

http://badblocks.biz/~jcdenton/VinceYoung(Twisted3434).wmv

real
11-01-2005, 07:05 PM
if you havent seen last year's vince young highlights you gotta check em out...It is unreal how stupid he makes defenses look. Accurate passer or not, if i'm an nfl GM im picking him up. He is going to change the game at the next level.

Vinny
11-01-2005, 07:34 PM
...but if you want a football comparison, here goes....

In 1975, the Colts traded down to 3 help them with a need. Steve Bartowski went first, Randy White went second. The Colts with the third pick took Ken Huff. It wasn't the great crop of O-linemen that year, but they had a need.

And they didn't have a need for running back, so they picked Huff and passed on another guy that was available, some guy named Walter Payton.

Now, if any of the Oline guys in the draft really are Orlando Pace clones, then maybe we should take them. But, if we are so desperate and take a hyped up Tony Mandarich kinda guy and pass on a rare talent, it will make the DJ/TJ debate look like nuthin.
Here is another draft where teams took need positions in the line over an elite skill guy in Tomlinson.

Round Pick Player Name Team Position College
1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons QB Virginia Tech
2 2 Leonard Davis Cardinals T Texas
3 3 Gerard Warren Browns DT Florida
4 4 Justin Smith Bengals DE Missouri
5 5 LaDainian Tomlinson Chargers RB Texas Christian

beerlover
11-01-2005, 07:40 PM
Here is another draft where teams took need positions in the line over an elite skill guy in Tomlinson.

Round Pick Player Name Team Position College
1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons QB Virginia Tech
2 2 Leonard Davis Cardinals T Texas
3 3 Gerard Warren Browns DT Florida
4 4 Justin Smith Bengals DE Missouri
5 5 LaDainian Tomlinson Chargers RB Texas Christian

the Chargers traded down and still got what they wanted, too. They selected running back LaDainian Tomlinson of TCU with the fifth overall pick, then got Purdue quarterback Drew Brees with the first pick of the second round :)

tulexan
11-01-2005, 08:25 PM
Reggie Bush and Vince Young right now aren't in the same level that LT was in college.

Texans_Chick
11-01-2005, 08:46 PM
Well Ferguson, or Winston if he returns to his pre-injury form, is supposed to be one of the best LT's the draft has seen in a long time. Maybe it is just me not being a Texas guy and not being die hard about Vince Young, but I think that a LT that is at the level of Ferguson and Winston is too good to pass up. Vince Young is very exciting to watch and is vastly improved but he is still very raw at QB. The risk of taking Young is much higher than taking a proven LT like Ferguson and Winston and we don't have the option of taking a highly risky pick who may or may not pan out in the next few years. Young is extremely athletic, but athleticism only takes you so far in the NFL. On an NFL scale of 1-10 for passing, right now he is a 2 or 3. His running is a 7 or 8, but you have to be at least a decent passer in the NFL and right now I don't see it. That's not to say that he won't develop into a great passer, which he very well could, but I would rather have the LT who could be a perrenial pro bowler or at least solid pass protector for the next 10 years.

A number of thoughts about this post:

* VY college numbers compare very favorably to Vick's, but he has more of an NFL body type. I find it hard to believe his skills wouldn't translate to the NFL.

* His passing numbers compare very favorably to the passing numbers of his contemporaries (see e.g.):

http://www.statesman.com/horns/content/sports/stories/longhorns/10/27texfoot.html

If you have been watching his games this year, it seems like he is making all of the passes. And there is no concern with his arm strength. His delivery is unorthodox (like a number of the QBs in the NFL), but importantly his release is fast.

And he has been putting up passing stats having a receiving corp that was considered the weakness of the team because they were so green.

* His running average last year was 90 yards per game, an average better than Ronnie Brown and Carnell "Cadillac" Williams, who were the 2nd and 5th picks in last year's draft.

* He wins games and is a competitor and is just a hard man to bring down. Watching him is like watching Playstation. You know, it looks like he is gonna be wrapped up, and he does some sort of joystick waggle and he takes it home.

* The only way I would want to take a O-linemen with a top 5 pick is if they really were the second coming of Orlando Pace--the man who was the inspiration for the pancake stat. If you are gonna spend that much money on a rookie LT, someone who is going to have no mentors, somebody that has to learn on the job, you have to be totally convinced that the guy is a lock. I am not there yet.

I don't understand why you are stating unsubstatiated things about VY's game (no stats to back them up), yet completely ignore potential problems with the Oline guys you are talking about--e.g. maybe Brick might have trouble keeping weight or keeping skills after putting on more weight--if we are talking about college guys making the transition to the NFL, do you have any concerns at all about an ACC guy who would be extremely light for a LT meriting top 5 money to play LT on a team with few Oline mentors? (A number of the high Oline picks in recent years have gone to lines that already had stud Olinemen on them--and they weren't forced to play LT immediately).

I understand the belief that the Texans need a LT, but I don't at all understand folks who believe that VY won't succeed in the NFL. He's a winner, he has the body type, he is a stat buster and just watching him he is like nobody I have ever seen.

Don't get me wrong, if the stud of all stud LTs is in the next draft, let's go get him--but I just don't want our need of a LT make us believe someone is better than he is. I ball up in my seat and start crying "mommy" every 3rd and long situation, but the whole blanket statement, "we need to take a LT with the first pick we have" makes me nervous if the guy isn't really the stud we need.

But yeah, all of this talk is too early. I want more information about everybody.


Vince is not allowed to go to the Titans even though I bet that is up there on his list cuz of McNair. I would weep and gnash teeth.

Fiddy
11-01-2005, 08:53 PM
Vince is not allowed to go to the Titans even though I bet that is up there on his list cuz of McNair. I would weep and gnash teeth. Thank you for putting that thought in my head...thanks a lot. I need to go throwup right now... :brickwall

tulexan
11-01-2005, 09:11 PM
"VY college numbers compare very favorably to Vick's, but he has more of an NFL body type. I find it hard to believe his skills wouldn't translate to the NFL."

Yes but Michael Vick runs a 4.25 40. Vince Young is nowhere near that. Vince Young is closer to a bigger Donovan McNabb who is not as good of a passer. Vince Young puts up great numbers because he is behind one of the best offensive lines in college football. He is also fortunate to play in a Big 12 conference which is mediocre at best.

Again, I believe that Vince has a chance to be a good NFL quarterback. I don't know how many times I have to say this. It is going to take a while for him to adjust to the NFL because he is still a very raw quarterback.

What I like about D'Brickinshaw Ferguson is that he has been starting at LT since he was a freshman. He is an athletic freak at LT and has great footwork and speed. Go to any website that discusses the 2006 draft and everyone lists him as the consensus top LT in the draft. A lot say that he has the potential to be one of the premier LTs in the NFL for many years. Sure he needs to gain about 20 pounds, but once he gets into the NFL that shouldn't be an issue because of the intensity of NFL workouts.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/dbrickashawferguson.html

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/index.cfm

http://huddlegeeks.com/NFL_Draft/2006/mock2006.htm

Everything I read about this guy and when I have watched him makes me think that he is the best man for our team. When UVA played against FSU no one even got close to the QB on the left side and FSU is one of the best defenses in the league.

Fiddy
11-01-2005, 09:24 PM
He is also fortunate to play in a Big 12 conference which is mediocre at best. Compared to the juggernaut that is the Pac-10... :rolleyes:

What is amazing is if Vince Young and Matt Linhert were to complete the same pass to the same wide-open WR against the same horrible team, Linhert would be praised for leading the open WR pefectly while Young would not be given any credit because the WR was too open.

beerlover
11-01-2005, 09:27 PM
durability is my main concern with D'Brick, as far as raw potential he looks alot like a Walter Jones type, not a pancaking LT like Pace, different style but equally effective and one worth the risk:cool:

tulexan
11-01-2005, 10:07 PM
Compared to the juggernaut that is the Pac-10... :rolleyes:

What is amazing is if Vince Young and Matt Linhert were to complete the same pass to the same wide-open WR against the same horrible team, Linhert would be praised for leading the open WR pefectly while Young would not be given any credit because the WR was too open.


If you read any of my posts regarding Reggie Bush you will see that I have consistently said that Reggie Bush playing in a weak conference is something that concerns me. If USC or Texas played in the SEC, they probably would not be undefeated. The only conference that is even close to the SEC is maybe the ACC, but it is a distant second.

Texans_Chick
11-01-2005, 10:29 PM
"Yes but Michael Vick runs a 4.25 40. Vince Young is nowhere near that. Vince Young is closer to a bigger Donovan McNabb who is not as good of a passer. Vince Young puts up great numbers because he is behind one of the best offensive lines in college football.


Vick is faster but Young is stronger and still plenty fast. He is not just fast for a QB, but just fast, agile and hard to tackle. Guys that are fast enough to catch him oft can't bring him down. The comparisons to other players are weird to do because truly there has never been a player with the combination of size and skill sets as VY. Ever.

His Oline is great but he gets rid of the ball quickly and often runs for big yards after the initial contact with the defense.

Even if he is a bit of a project, he is a project that I'd like to watch on the field, and good enough that you might want him so that your competitors don't have him.

Anyhow, this whole thing makes me think of the 1989 draft, because Mandarich was the first mega hyped lineman:

1 Dallas Troy Aikman QB UCLA
2 Green Bay Tony Mandarich T Michigan State
3 Detroit Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State
4 Kansas City Derrick Thomas DE Alabama
5 Atlanta Deion Sanders CB Florida State

Many of the draft hypers at the time were critical of Dallas for not taking Mandarich over Aikman (including Mel Kiper Jr). To be fair, Mandarich was very dominant in college so from a non-hindsight perspective, you can understand the pick. As someone who has followed the Packers long time, I have to say I am still traumatized from that and it still freaks me out some.

I want a top 5 lineman to be perfect. Not just the guy we are getting just because we need one bad. But I guess we will kick the tires, and hopefully get someone who will help.

Huge
11-02-2005, 07:55 AM
Reggie Bush and Vince Young right now aren't in the same level that LT was in college.
Vince Young puts up great numbers because he is behind one of the best offensive lines in college football. He is also fortunate to play in a Big 12 conference which is mediocre at best.
Does anybody really need me to point out the blatant hypocrisy?

MorKnolle
11-02-2005, 09:12 AM
I'm not saying Vince Young won't be a good NFL QB, but we already have a good one in David Carr and spending a top five pick to get a QB when we already have a #1 pick and $40 million invested in a capable one would be ridiculous. Young would not be able to perform very well here, especially with the OLine we currently have if that problem is not addressed this offseason. I also have questions about Ferguson being able to keep weight on and performing with the added weight, but someone like Winston from Miami who is also athletic (came into the U. as a TE) and now weighs 315 pounds would also be an excellent option. Either way the draft is too far off and there are too many changes that can happen in the rest of the season and with our coaching staff in the offseason to be predicting such things at this moment.

wags
11-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Does anybody really need me to point out the blatant hypocrisy?

You just can't be a superstar in the NFL unless you play the SMU shetland ponies every year.

rittenhouserobz
11-02-2005, 10:07 AM
If you like Young, then you should love Marcus Vick. Really Vick would be a n-brainer pick. If I am the Texans, then I pick the LT this year. If things turn south, then Vick might be our player next year.

Huge
11-02-2005, 10:18 AM
Above average arm. Above average running abilities. Below average size. Questionable character issues.

What's to love about Marcus Vick?

tulexan
11-02-2005, 10:24 AM
I admit that LT didn't play against the top competition in the league, but his numbers were unreal. How many players have ever run for 400 yards and 6 touchdowns in one game? He had a few 300 yard games and even more 250+ yard games. He was the consensus top running back in the NCAA. There is a debate as to whether Reggie Bush or Vince Young are the top players at their position. Reggie Bush has had 1 game in his career where he rushed for 200 yards and 1 game where he carried the ball 20 times. Vince Young isn't even in the top 30 in passing yards and is tied for 19th in passing touchdowns. His touchdown to turnover ratio is 2:1 which is good, but not great. He is 28th in the nation for rushing, yet is not the top running QB (Brad Smith). Both Reggie and Vince are great players, but both need to make some changes before going to the next level. Reggie needs to gain about 20 pounds and needs to be able to carry the ball for 20 or 30 times a game, and Vince needs to cut down on the turnovers and improve his passing. They both have the potential to be very good yet need some time (Vince more than Reggie).

I don't know why some won't admit that Vince needs a little more time. Admitting that he needs more time is not saying that he is a bad player, it is just saying that he could get even better with a little more guidance and coaching. You should want him to stay at Texas because that means they will have a chance at the title next year too. The Texans are not going to take him. It doesn't matter if he is from Houston, we have way too much money invested in David Carr and we are not going to tie up more of our cap space in one position. If the Texans weren't going to pick a Texas guy with DJ, they surely aren't going to pick Vince Young. The team could care less about UT. They don't need to bring local guys to sell tickets or to expand their fan base. They are more interested in getting the right player for the team and right now that is D'Brickinshaw Ferguson or Eric Winston.

Vinny
11-02-2005, 10:27 AM
You can't quantify football players with stats or the Hawaii QB and the Texas Tech QB would be the best players in football each year. I think that the people who dog Young don't really watch him play all that much. He makes plays when he has to make the play.

tulexan
11-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Actually you can because if you turn the ball over a lot, that is a problem. I have watched Vince Young play a lot and he is impressive, but he also makes a lot of dumb mistakes. Not as much as he used to, but he is still a work in progress at the position. He still tends to hold the ball around his hips instead of around his ears. He still throws the occasional unnecessary looping soft rainbow pass that would be an interception in the NFL. And he still fails to make the pass when there is someone wide open. That is why I think that he needs one more year at Texas. With one more year at school he will turn into a much better pro much sooner. That is all that I am trying to say. I am not trying to dog him and say that he is garbage and will never be a good pro. I am just saying that he needs more time.

Lucky
11-02-2005, 11:06 AM
...That is why I think that he needs one more year at Texas. With one more year at school he will turn into a much better pro much sooner. ...
If Vince Young really wants to be a NFL QB, he needs to get to the league ASAP. He's gone as far as UT coaching can take him. Vince needs pro coaching and lots of it. He's not close to being able to execute an NFL offense.

Personally, I think Young is years away from becoming a starting NFL QB. I do believe he could be a revolutionary player in a slash role (QB/RB/WR), right out of the box. But, that's just me. If Vince wants to win the heisman...stay in school. If he wants to be a NFL QB, leave after this season.

Vinny
11-02-2005, 11:12 AM
If Vince Young really wants to be a NFL QB, he needs to get to the league ASAP. He's gone as far as UT coaching can take him. Vince needs pro coaching and lots of it. He's not close to being able to execute an NFL offense.
You just described Steve McNair coming out of Alcorn St. The Oilers drafted him and coached him up for two years before turning over the offense to him. He was extremely raw and they didn't run much more than a playground offense with McNair running around making plays at Alcorn St.

beerlover
11-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Personally, I think Young is years away from becoming a starting NFL QB. I do believe he could be a revolutionary player in a slash role (QB/RB/WR), right out of the box.

Kordell Stewart was revolutionary :rofl:

Lucky
11-02-2005, 11:42 AM
You just described Steve McNair coming out of Alcorn St. The Oilers drafted him and coached him up for two years before turning over the offense to him. He was extremely raw and they didn't run much more than a playground offense with McNair running around making plays at Alcorn St.
I agree and it took a couple years of on the field experience, and a couple of different OCs, before the light bulb turned on for Steve. That's what it would probably take for Vince, and you're paying the guy an 8 figure bonus to sit and learn. Whereas if he lined up anywhere and everywhere on offense, that team would see the benifits (and the TDs) right away.

Kordell was a much better slash than QB. And Vince would be more extraordinary because of his size and physicality.

Huge
11-02-2005, 01:45 PM
I admit that LT didn't play against the top competition in the league, but his numbers were unreal. How many players have ever run for 400 yards and 6 touchdowns in one game? He had a few 300 yard games and even more 250+ yard games. He was the consensus top running back in the NCAA. There is a debate as to whether Reggie Bush or Vince Young are the top players at their position. Reggie Bush has had 1 game in his career where he rushed for 200 yards and 1 game where he carried the ball 20 times. Vince Young isn't even in the top 30 in passing yards and is tied for 19th in passing touchdowns. His touchdown to turnover ratio is 2:1 which is good, but not great. He is 28th in the nation for rushing, yet is not the top running QB (Brad Smith). Both Reggie and Vince are great players, but both need to make some changes before going to the next level. Reggie needs to gain about 20 pounds and needs to be able to carry the ball for 20 or 30 times a game, and Vince needs to cut down on the turnovers and improve his passing. They both have the potential to be very good yet need some time (Vince more than Reggie).
It's not that difficult to be the consensus top RB when your competition is Duece McCallister, Michael Bennett and Lamont Jordan. All fine players but none of them are in the class of Tomlinson or Bush.

Tomlinson also didn't have/get to split carries with a talent like Lendale White or play with a Heisman QB as well as having two WRs that could top the 1,000 yard mark this season. So it's bad that he hasn't had the big number games like Tomlinson did?

And why does Bush need to add 20 lbs? Look up Warrick Dunn's current standing in the league rushing leaders then check his weight. You know who leads the league in attempts? Willis McGahee. He's averaging just over 23 carries a game. So why does Bush need to carry the ball 20-30 times a game?

Bringing up that Vince isn't in the top 30 in passing yards while leaving out the fact he plays on the #3 rushing offense is pretty short sighted. Have you seen Troy Aikman's career stats? They're not that impressive. But I bet most would consider him to be in the top 20 QBs to ever play the game. Why were his stats not that impressive? Because Emmitt Smith's were.

Brad Smith - 156 attempts, 903 yards (5.79 avg.), 9 TDs
Vince Young - 103 attempts, 725 yards (7.04 avg.), 8 TDs

But Vince isn't the 'top running QB' because Smith has more yards. You betcha. And shame on Vince for being just the 7th rated passer in college (presently) and 'only' being the 2nd highest rushing QB. :rolleyes:

The other top two running QBs (Reggie McNeal and Brad Smith) both rank 48th and 83rd in passing efficiency.

I don't know why some won't admit that Vince needs a little more time. Admitting that he needs more time is not saying that he is a bad player, it is just saying that he could get even better with a little more guidance and coaching. You should want him to stay at Texas because that means they will have a chance at the title next year too. The Texans are not going to take him. It doesn't matter if he is from Houston, we have way too much money invested in David Carr and we are not going to tie up more of our cap space in one position. If the Texans weren't going to pick a Texas guy with DJ, they surely aren't going to pick Vince Young. The team could care less about UT. They don't need to bring local guys to sell tickets or to expand their fan base. They are more interested in getting the right player for the team and right now that is D'Brickinshaw Ferguson or Eric Winston.
I don't disagree with this. Just everything else you said.

SESupergenius
11-02-2005, 01:53 PM
I had wished that Carr would be a backup when he initially got here and they put a good emphasis on him learning the position and speed of the game before he took one snap. That being said, I don't have the confidence in this coaching staff to bring Young or anyone else along if Carr were somehow out of the picture. I'd rather have a pocket passer than a hybrid. Young is exciting, but the on the edge of your seat if he's going to get nailed kind of exciting.

TheOgre
11-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Have you seen Troy Aikman's career stats? They're not that impressive. But I bet most would consider him to be in the top 20 QBs to ever play the game. Why were his stats not that impressive? Because Emmitt Smith's were.

Going into a game, Troy Aikman is one of the best. He might even be one of the top 10. Down by 10+ points entering the 4th quarter, he might not make my top 100 list. I do often wonder how he would have done with a lessor cast around him.

Fiddy
11-05-2005, 11:51 AM
1:30 into the game and his recivers have already dropped 2 balls...

Fiddy
11-06-2005, 12:39 AM
If you like Young, then you should love Marcus Vick. Really Vick would be a n-brainer pick. If I am the Texans, then I pick the LT this year. If things turn south, then Vick might be our player next year. Say what??? You wanna re-think that???

Kaiser Toro
11-06-2005, 07:17 AM
I love watching Vince play, but cringe when he feels the pressue and has that ball wavering in the air. I also do not like his release and the way he flicks the ball. However, his passing is beginning to morph into something much better. I never thought of him as a viable NFL QB. But I am beginning to think with one more year at UT and a year or two with the clipboard he will be able to man his own team. If his passing game continues to progress, we will be looking at something no one has ever seen before.

Vinny
11-06-2005, 09:16 AM
I don't know why you cringe when he hits his target on a regular basis. I saw a guy with a beautiful release last night in Marcus Vick throw horrible passes to wide open WR's throwing passes only Yao Ming could dream of catching over and over but everyone thinks that Vick is such a better passer than Young...I guess because of the way Young "flicks" the ball for 40 yards as we cringe while the ball bounces off his WR's hands.

texplayer2
11-06-2005, 09:42 AM
If you read any of my posts regarding Reggie Bush you will see that I have consistently said that Reggie Bush playing in a weak conference is something that concerns me. If USC or Texas played in the SEC, they probably would not be undefeated. The only conference that is even close to the SEC is maybe the ACC, but it is a distant second.

Sc has beaten Auburn and Virginia Tech within their 30+ winning streak. I don't think the conference stops talent. Auburn went undefeated last year and VT was undefeated this year. Neither could say that the year they played USC and it wasn't because of their mighty conferences. It happened at the hands of the Pac-10 leader. The style of play differs a cross the country, and there are as many philosophies on what is the best way to play football, but talent wins.

Kaiser Toro
11-06-2005, 12:07 PM
I don't know why you cringe when he hits his target on a regular basis. I saw a guy with a beautiful release last night in Marcus Vick throw horrible passes to wide open WR's throwing passes only Yao Ming could dream of catching over and over but everyone thinks that Vick is such a better passer than Young...I guess because of the way Young "flicks" the ball for 40 yards as we cringe while the ball bounces off his WR's hands.

Probably need to elaborate. When the pocket collapses Vince sometimes tries to salvage the play with the pass rather than with the run. It is at these times where the ball is very vulnerable. Vince has a bad habit that when he is in the grasp he exposes the ball. This is where I cringe.

Vince in my opinion is getting better every game, especially his passing game.

MorKnolle
11-06-2005, 03:31 PM
I would definitely say Marcus Vick is a better passer than Vince Young right now, but I would still take Young over Vick in the draft if I had to choose between the two, but I wouldn't take either one if I were the Texans GM.

Napa Auto Parts
11-06-2005, 03:50 PM
I really hope this cat comes out this year i dont see how the texans could pass him up with the 1st overall pick i used to be want Matt ******** but i rather have Vince young leading this team.

BattleRedRaider
11-06-2005, 06:42 PM
Vince Young? Please, there are better choices in the draft. We just extended Carr's contract, so he isn't going anywhere. Even if we draft VY, he looks like he'll be knocked out after one hit in the NFL. He'll take one hit and be out for the year. He would probably be converted to WR, and even then, I still wouldn't want him. I'd rather have Reggie Bush; the guy makes plays at will. Yeah, we got DD and VM, but hell, I don't want to see Reggie Bush becoming a superstar on another team when we had the chance. Or simply, draft a much-needed OL first. VY can go to some other team.

Jerry
11-06-2005, 07:34 PM
VY is like 6-5, 240 - NFL LB size (reportedly, and he looks it on TV). I think he could handle the hits in the NFL, but I wouldn't take him with our #1 pick because we have bigger needs.

StarStruck
11-06-2005, 08:38 PM
Vince Young? Please, there are better choices in the draft. We just extended Carr's contract, so he isn't going anywhere. Even if we draft VY, he looks like he'll be knocked out after one hit in the NFL. He'll take one hit and be out for the year. He would probably be converted to WR, and even then, I still wouldn't want him. I'd rather have Reggie Bush; the guy makes plays at will. Yeah, we got DD and VM, but hell, I don't want to see Reggie Bush becoming a superstar on another team when we had the chance. Or simply, draft a much-needed OL first. VY can go to some other team.

I was around when folks thought McNair wasn't good enough and needed about five years of bench experience behind any quarterback, so the Vince Young comments don't surprise me the least bit. IMO, Young is a play maker, and will do whatever it takes to make something happen for his team. The question I have, is what team will see that as an asset, and choose accordingly.

BattleRedRaider
11-06-2005, 09:13 PM
I don't expect anyone to be surprised. We just don't need Vince Young. We need others. Oh sure, people said that about McNair, but Young is no McNair. Young wouldn't play with the injuries McNair has sustained over the years.

Vinny
11-06-2005, 09:19 PM
who says? Carnac? Young has better running skills than McNair anyway. I rarely see him take big direct hits and that is a skill that many players don't have. McNair is tough, but he takes a ton of hits.

BattleRedRaider
11-06-2005, 09:24 PM
Either he's really good at avoiding hits, or he's just afraid of being hit. I'm not saying either one yet. Or maybe it's both.

Vinny
11-06-2005, 09:25 PM
Afraid of being hit? Have you even watched him play? How can a guy who runs that much and takes on people as much as him be afraid?

BattleRedRaider
11-06-2005, 09:27 PM
Yeah, I've watched him play. I was forced to watch him play against my Red Raiders. I will actually admit he's got good skills, but I don't know, the Texans don't need him.

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 09:19 AM
who says? Carnac? Young has better running skills than McNair anyway. I rarely see him take big direct hits and that is a skill that many players don't have. McNair is tough, but he takes a ton of hits.

I admit Vince Young has decent running skills but he is playing in college in the much-depleted Big 12, and believe me he will take many big direct hits in the NFL if he tries to run like he does now. He does not have breakaway NFL speed.

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 09:21 AM
Yes Young is big for a QB and pretty fast, but WE DON'T NEED A QB. That is the absolute last of our needs in the draft, and we especially don't need to spend another 1st round draft pick on a QB. That would be the most retarded draft decision our team has made yet, and we've made several in four years.

Vinny
11-07-2005, 09:31 AM
Just because we discuss Vince Young doesn't mean we are going to draft him. He's not even coming out at this point.

BigBull17
11-07-2005, 09:35 AM
Vince Young wil be a project from the start. He runs like he has a bar from his head to his ***. In college you can get away with it cause not everyone hits hard. In pro he will get broken running high and mighty.

TheOgre
11-07-2005, 09:46 AM
Vince Young really does remind me of Donovan McNabb at Syracuse. McNabb ran a lot more in college than he does now. I think Young should try to Emulate McNabb's style of play moreso than Vick's.

Vinny
11-07-2005, 09:47 AM
He runs high because he is 6'5". He has enough body control to keep from those big hits though. Just because you are tall doesn't mean you can't be elusive. You can see that clearly in Vince Young. There hasn't been anyone like him to prove he can't cut it. Until he fails there is no one to point at and say he has a failed style.

He's not McNabb either. He is just pretty unique.

Htown34s
11-07-2005, 09:56 AM
I agree with Vinny. VY is the first VY. I've watch him here in Austin for years. The guy is simply amazing, and he has been getting better and better for the last year and a half. He amazes every single game. I've never seen anything like him.

It will be a shame if he doesn't get a least one Heisman, but man is he exciting to watch. I'm just soaking it all in...

Huge
11-07-2005, 11:37 AM
I agree with those that say the Texans don't need to draft Vince. I completely disagree with your reasoning though.

Doesn't have NFL breakaway speed? How many times have you seen Young get caught from behind?

Plays in the depleted Big 12? How effective was a legitimate defense (Ohio State) at stopping Young?

The Texans don't "need" Young but they could really use Reggie Bush. Yeah, you betcha. Because he'd make up for all the OL woes of this team.

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 11:57 AM
I agree with those that say the Texans don't need to draft Vince. I completely disagree with your reasoning though.

Doesn't have NFL breakaway speed? How many times have you seen Young get caught from behind?

Plays in the depleted Big 12? How effective was a legitimate defense (Ohio State) at stopping Young?

The Texans don't "need" Young but they could really use Reggie Bush. Yeah, you betcha. Because he'd make up for all the OL woes of this team.

Vince Young is playing in college at the moment, he does not have the speed to break away from NFL defenses, that's why I said NFL breakaway speed. Michael Vick is the only QB in the NFL that is fast enough to not get caught from behind by NFL defenses, and Young is nowhere near as fast as Vick. That aside, we definitely have bigger holes to fill that drafting Reggie Bush, but if we can trade down a few spots to pick up an extra pick and Bush is still available, I'd have a hard time not drafting him because he does have undeniable palymaking skills, but I would likely move him to WR. That said, I still think the Texans have several offseason issues to deal with and QB and RB are right at the bottom of the list.

HomeBred_Texan
11-07-2005, 12:39 PM
Vince Young is not going to be a mid-first round pick. He's going to be a top ten pick and possibly a top 3 pick this year or next year. And I'd prefer him at QB.
He wont even be picked in the first round. He will not make it in the NFL as a QB or WR and we sure dont need him as a WR..

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 12:44 PM
I have to admit that when Young comes out next year he'll likely be picked in the top 5 in the draft as a QB, but the Texans won't need him because we're going to get a new OC this offseason and Carr will be back to 3500 yards in 2006.

beerlover
11-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Vince Young has breakaway speed in space which translates into the WR position. if Vince was coming out this year (I would put him in the same class with AJ) Vince would be #1 WR on the draft board :)

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 12:50 PM
Vince Young has breakaway speed in space which translates into the WR position. if Vince was coming out this year (I would put him in the same class with AJ) Vince would be #1 WR on the draft board :)

I hope you're not saying that Vince Young is as fast as Andre Johnson. Let's put it in terms of Madden ratings. Andre Johnson has 95 speed on that game, as does Michael Vick (maybe 94, I don't remember cause I haven't played it in a while). Vince Young will probably be somewhere in the range of 82-85 speed, good enough for second-fastest among QBs, but nothing special for a WR, nor is his catching ability likely anywhere near Andre's.

beerlover
11-07-2005, 01:01 PM
I hope you're not saying that Vince Young is as fast as Andre Johnson. Let's put it in terms of Madden ratings. Andre Johnson has 95 speed on that game, as does Michael Vick (maybe 94, I don't remember cause I haven't played it in a while). Vince Young will probably be somewhere in the range of 82-85 speed, good enough for second-fastest among QBs, but nothing special for a WR, nor is his catching ability likely anywhere near Andre's.

I put him in the same class of AJ as a game breaking WR, speed is not everything included in this package but if he does go to the combine I think that Vince can run a 4.4 maybe under? while AJ is about a 4.3-4.35. his size and athletic ability is what's intriqueing, I'm going to assume he has excellent hands based upon playing QB, his break away moves for his size are amazing. remember its just a projection based upon his skills, but I cannot think of a better WR prospect in the upcoming draft should he decide to turn pro.

MorKnolle
11-07-2005, 01:57 PM
I put him in the same class of AJ as a game breaking WR, speed is not everything included in this package but if he does go to the combine I think that Vince can run a 4.4 maybe under? while AJ is about a 4.3-4.35. his size and athletic ability is what's intriqueing, I'm going to assume he has excellent hands based upon playing QB, his break away moves for his size are amazing. remember its just a projection based upon his skills, but I cannot think of a better WR prospect in the upcoming draft should he decide to turn pro.

I still think VY would not be a great WR. Catching a ball is different from throwing a ball, and while he might be able to make the routine catches well trying to adjust to catching balls no matter where they're thrown and with people around you/hitting you is completely different, especially if he hasn't played WR before. I also don't know what his vertical jump is like, it's probably pretty good but nothing special. I doubt he would run under a 4.4, probably more like a 4.45 to 4.5. He would probably be similar to Matt Jones of Jacksonville only probably a little faster. Like I said, I think he can be a quality QB but it will take him a couple years to be a consistent starter, and it sounds like he wants to stay at QB. His match of size and speed would be a rarity among NFL QBs as most quick ones are much shorter. As for WRs, USC has two stud WRs (Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett), Santonio Holmes (Ohio St.) is definitely a top candidate just to name a few. I haven't followed college football as a whole very well this year so at the moment I don't have an extensive list of the elite WRs.

beerlover
11-07-2005, 03:14 PM
Matt Jones is 6'6" 242 lbs. ran a 4.39 40 at the combine & was picked 21st overall in 05!

Huge
11-07-2005, 04:36 PM
Vince Young is playing in college at the moment, he does not have the speed to break away from NFL defenses, that's why I said NFL breakaway speed. Michael Vick is the only QB in the NFL that is fast enough to not get caught from behind by NFL defenses, and Young is nowhere near as fast as Vick. That aside, we definitely have bigger holes to fill that drafting Reggie Bush, but if we can trade down a few spots to pick up an extra pick and Bush is still available, I'd have a hard time not drafting him because he does have undeniable palymaking skills, but I would likely move him to WR. That said, I still think the Texans have several offseason issues to deal with and QB and RB are right at the bottom of the list.
Vince has played against players in college that are now in the NFL (Fabian Washington...top 3 fastest 40 in the last Combine is the first to come to mind) and he didn't have much trouble running past them.

And as fast as Vick is, he has been caught from behind before (as has Vince). But more times than not, even the fastest players get caught from behind when the defensive player has the angle. Ladanian Tomlinson was "run down" by a LBer earlier this season. And if you'll remember, LT put up a pretty eye popping 40 at his Combine/Pro Day. It's not always about the 40. If you put Vince 5 yards ahead of any NFL defender and they've got 60 yards to go, Vince is going to score. Anybody that's fast enough to catch him isn't going to be big enough to bring him down.

Everything else, we see eye to eye.

Htown34s
11-07-2005, 05:31 PM
I've watched Vince develop over the last 3 years here in Austin. Every single game. Most of the home games in person. And let me tell all of you this right now:

Vince Young is THE MOST DOMINANT and EXCITING PLAYER I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE. He does unbelievable things every game. He does not get rattled no matter what is on the line. He is a leader. He has not had ONE bad or "off" game in over a year. He has learned how to take control of the team and will them to do what is needed. His has an incredible touch on his throws that Carr could use a little more of.

He is a beast of a player that is a hybrid mixture of Michael Vick's elusiveness, Roy William's size and speed, and Joe Montana's leadership.

Now, here is my take. His passing was pretty bad early on, but is has come a very long way in the past year. Even though he has the arm strength to throw 50 yards flat footed with ease, his accuracy needs to be developed more for the pros. His weakness is throwing a laser on slants to account for the quicker DB's in the NFL.

I think that he realizes this and intends to stay for his Senior year. If his passing continues to improve for another year he could possibly be the most amazing pro QB ever. We'll see. But he will be a QB in the NFL. Everyone needs to forget this WR talk.

beerlover
11-07-2005, 05:47 PM
Everyone needs to forget this WR talk.

sorry :challenge not going to happen when the majority of scouts think his natural position is WR in the NFL. for starters just ask John McClain :cool:

Kaiser Toro
11-07-2005, 06:19 PM
sorry :challenge not going to happen when the majority of scouts think his natural position is WR in the NFL. for starters just ask John McClain :cool:

I would have agreed with you up to about 4 games ago, but this kid is really starting to mature as a signal caller and passer. He is in a zone right now and I do not see it going away.

I have no basis for this, but Vince will be back next year and I expect to see the same incremental growth we have seen his 20+ games.

What a homer post this is. :)

cuppacoffee
11-08-2005, 10:08 AM
I dont see Young or Leinart coming to Houston.

$20 says we keep Carr, and continue to build around him. I wouldnt put it past the new Head Coach to take a OT, and OG, 1-2 in the draft.

AHHHHH! The voice of reason.

Now.....just wait the following year and draft Brady Quinn. :drool:

How many longhorn fans were touting the Simms kid as the next great pro QB??
Each year it seems that there is some longhorn player that we should take no. 1..... :rolleyes:
Last year it was the texas linebacker.
Guess I just made a lot of new friends. :love:

cac: :coffee:

jaayteetx
11-08-2005, 10:14 AM
Isn't DJ having a pretty good year in KC? I really haven't been paying too much attention to the Chiefs.

Htown34s
11-08-2005, 10:15 AM
How many longhorn fans were touting the Simms kid as the next great pro QB??

Ummm, none. Simms wasn't liked in Austin for good reason. He doesn't play with passion and he has no leadership qualities on the field. Major Applewhite was a crowd favorite.

I'm a Horn fan but I'm honest about our players like I am with the Texans. Last year I saw VY as WR only in the NFL. The past year has changed my mind.

I think everyone should at least watch last year's Rose Bowl game and this year's UT/Ohio St game before commenting on VY.

metalmike
11-08-2005, 11:04 AM
Mack Brown almost got fired for playing Simms over Applewhite. Nobody likes Simms. I'm not saying we should draft Young. Hell, he's not even gonna be in this years draft. Texans need O-Line help before anything. You can't win games when your only giving your QB 1.7 secs to throw the ball. Have fun watching the Horns in the Rose Bowl!!!

Huge
11-08-2005, 11:26 AM
Ummm, none. Simms wasn't liked in Austin for good reason. He doesn't play with passion and he has no leadership qualities on the field. Major Applewhite was a crowd favorite.
Mack Brown almost got fired for playing Simms over Applewhite. Nobody likes Simms.
On whose behalf are you speaking? Certainly not this Longhorn fan.

Coach C.
11-08-2005, 11:35 AM
First off all you Longhorn fans can go jump in a lake(preferably the Lake of Fire in Hell) But other than my hatred for UT I must say that Vince Young is a great college player. He will be a good NFL player. Think Randall Cunningham. A guy with a terrible throwing motion who was never very accurate and a pretty big arm. He can run around and get extra yards with his feet, but he is not gonna take to many to the house from 40+ yards out like he does in college. I doubt he will have many 20+ yard gains in the NFL. After a year in the right system Vince will be good and his personality will make him a crowd favorite. He is not the next coming of Elway or Montana sorry UT Fans get off the guys jock.

Vinny
11-08-2005, 11:37 AM
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not a UT fan...I'm a football fan.

Huge
11-08-2005, 11:48 AM
First off all you Longhorn fans can go jump in a lake(preferably the Lake of Fire in Hell) But other than my hatred for UT I must say that Vince Young is a great college player. He will be a good NFL player. Think Randall Cunningham. A guy with a terrible throwing motion who was never very accurate and a pretty big arm. He can run around and get extra yards with his feet, but he is not gonna take to many to the house from 40+ yards out like he does in college. I doubt he will have many 20+ yard gains in the NFL. After a year in the right system Vince will be good and his personality will make him a crowd favorite. He is not the next coming of Elway or Montana sorry UT Fans get off the guys jock.
Bitter much?

Guess it's not a good time for those that don't like Texas. And yes, we like it that way.

jaayteetx
11-08-2005, 12:50 PM
The Longhorns are the only football team that will bring the state of Texas a championship any time soon. So sorry, Cowgirl fans!

Huge
11-08-2005, 05:47 PM
I'd be more than willing to sacrifice a Super Bowl for Dallas if it meant Texas wins the MNC. We've got 5. We can wait for the 6th.

metalmike
11-09-2005, 10:03 AM
On whose behalf are you speaking? Certainly not this Longhorn fan.
You are the first UT fan that I have ever heard that liked Simms over Applewhite. Simms was and is worse than David Carr. Anyways not talking smack, just your the first guy I've heard say that. Can't wait till UT stomps a muddhole in USC to shut all these Texas haters up!!!

metalmike
11-09-2005, 10:06 AM
First off all you Longhorn fans can go jump in a lake(preferably the Lake of Fire in Hell) But other than my hatred for UT I must say that Vince Young is a great college player. He will be a good NFL player. Think Randall Cunningham. A guy with a terrible throwing motion who was never very accurate and a pretty big arm. He can run around and get extra yards with his feet, but he is not gonna take to many to the house from 40+ yards out like he does in college. I doubt he will have many 20+ yard gains in the NFL. After a year in the right system Vince will be good and his personality will make him a crowd favorite. He is not the next coming of Elway or Montana sorry UT Fans get off the guys jock.
Ok your either an Aggie which I won't even comment on (you wouldn't understand) or your a sooner, the most overrated team in the last 5 to 6 years. whatever last time I checked my team was undefeated

Huge
11-09-2005, 11:23 AM
You are the first UT fan that I have ever heard that liked Simms over Applewhite. Simms was and is worse than David Carr. Anyways not talking smack, just your the first guy I've heard say that. Can't wait till UT stomps a muddhole in USC to shut all these Texas haters up!!!
There are a ton of Texas fans on their Rivals website that share my view. 'Course, there are others that look at it the other way as well. :)

I think the reason Simms got the bad rap was because he was expected to play much better than he did. He still performed every bit as well as Applewhite (in many ways better) but it was perceived as him not reaching his potential because it was pretty obvious his ceiling was much higher than Applewhite's. Major, on the other hand, was viewed as the classic underdog that played above his abilities and the crowds loved him for it.

Basically one was a Ferrari, the other was a Mustang but both performed like a Corvette. :D

But you won't find a better ambassador for Texas than Simms. His teammates loved playing for him. The Big 3 (Roy, BJ and Sloan) committed to Texas because of Simms (there are exact quotes on this somewhere).

I'm just glad we had both. They each had their moments and it was fun to watch.

MorKnolle
11-09-2005, 12:24 PM
I'd like to go on record as saying USC will win by at least 21 if UT even makes it to the national championship.

Htown34s
11-09-2005, 02:19 PM
I'd like to go on record as saying USC will win by at least 21 if UT even makes it to the national championship.

OK, I've got you down.

Soooo, you think UT will lose to Kansas, A&M, or Colorado in the next 3 games?

Do you think USC's defense is better than UT's?

Just want to make sure we have it all on record. :)

texplayer2
11-09-2005, 03:47 PM
Do you think USC's defense is better than UT's?

:)

I don't think UT's defense is that much better than USC's offense. If you watched the Championship game last year, the same team is still playing offense at USC. Oklahoma had a good defense and SC put 55 on the board. It would be better to compare these two teams like this because the defenses don't play each other. As far as the match-up of Texas offense against SC defense look at the game against ND. I think Texas will need to score 45 pts. to win with almost no turnovers,and lots of time of possesion. USC is cappable of scoring 55-60 in that ball game. Texas's D hasn't faced an offense of this caliber this year. It will be a good game. I don't see any Muddholes.

MorKnolle
11-09-2005, 03:53 PM
OK, I've got you down.

Soooo, you think UT will lose to Kansas, A&M, or Colorado in the next 3 games?

Do you think USC's defense is better than UT's?

Just want to make sure we have it all on record. :)

Colorado could be a tough game for UT, but they will probably make it through the season undefeated. I don't think they are the second best team in the country, I think Miami and Virginia Tech are both better, but unfortunately they play a much tougher schedule and each have one loss.

USC's defense is about the same as UT's, but their offense is much better. USC's defense should be able to contain UT's offense, but UT will not be able to stop USC. Miami or VTech would have a chance at stopping USC, but not UT.

Htown34s
11-09-2005, 05:33 PM
Colorado could be a tough game for UT, but they will probably make it through the season undefeated. I don't think they are the second best team in the country, I think Miami and Virginia Tech are both better, but unfortunately they play a much tougher schedule and each have one loss.

USC's defense is about the same as UT's, but their offense is much better. USC's defense should be able to contain UT's offense, but UT will not be able to stop USC. Miami or VTech would have a chance at stopping USC, but not UT.

Man, not trying to start anything, but I disagree with everything you just said.

UT's D is #6 in the country. USC's is 41st.

USC's O is #1 while UT's is 4th. ...and VT's is 62nd! Miami is 65th.


Its amazing how everyone feeds off of what they are fed by the media. UT has been #1 in the BCS computer strength of schedule for weeks.

Huge
11-09-2005, 06:30 PM
USC's defense is about the same as UT's, but their offense is much better. USC's defense should be able to contain UT's offense, but UT will not be able to stop USC. Miami or VTech would have a chance at stopping USC, but not UT.
Wow...

swtbound07
11-09-2005, 07:26 PM
UT has better linebackers.....bobino, harris........not even a contest

tulexan
11-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Right now I think the only defense that could possibly stop USC, and by stop I mean hold them to under 28 points, is Miami. Miami's defense is so fast that they would be able to run step for step with the receivers and running backs. Texas may have a fast defense, but Miami is much faster.

real
11-09-2005, 08:11 PM
speed isnt the only thing that makes a defense good

BuffSoldier
11-09-2005, 08:28 PM
UT has one of the top 3 defenses in the nation period. USC has the best offense in the nation. But if you remember they only beat ND by 1 and where down early in some games this season to much lesser opponents than UT. Not saying that UT will win, but it will be an amazing game and oh, I dont care who you have on your defense, no one can stop VY, just ask Ohio State. 346 yards of total offense by one player against a superb OSU defense, OMG.

profan
11-09-2005, 08:40 PM
Colorado could be a tough game for UT, but they will probably make it through the season undefeated. I don't think they are the second best team in the country, I think Miami and Virginia Tech are both better, but unfortunately they play a much tougher schedule and each have one loss.

USC's defense is about the same as UT's, but their offense is much better. USC's defense should be able to contain UT's offense, but UT will not be able to stop USC. Miami or VTech would have a chance at stopping USC, but not UT.

So your saying colorado is going to be a tough game, even though ut beat them 42-17 this year, after leading 35-10 at the half. The schedules between Miami, Vtech, and Texas are not that much different. Hell, if Texas would not have beat ohio state, texas tech, or colorado, all of these teams would be in the top 10. Have you seen a Texas game this year?

tulexan
11-09-2005, 08:57 PM
speed isnt the only thing that makes a defense good


I know that speed isn't the only thing that makes defenses good, but they have size, speed, and power.

threetoedpete
11-10-2005, 11:19 PM
Bob Griese was stating that Young is no longer challenged by College defenses and will need to get into the NFL before anyone is going to be able to stop him on a regular basis. He will be a QB in the NFL, a top 5 pick and I think he will be a superstar.

Nope not with that delivery. He'll be good though. He ain't going anywhere.

Huge
11-11-2005, 07:10 AM
I wonder if anybody is old enough to remember Bernie Kosar and his delivery.

cuppacoffee
11-11-2005, 08:32 AM
If VY isn't a great success in the pros, I will be very surprised because he
is a phenomenal athelete who is also a phenomenal competitor and team
leader. I mean this kid is a "world class athelete", and honetly I'm not exagerating. Can you imagine Vince as a competitor in the Olympics in the
decathlon event ? I can because he can run, jump, throw: high jump, sprints,
javelin, discus, etc. He does it all. I don't know who will win the Heisman this year, but I'm confidant that VY is the best football player in college this year.
Maybe the best in quite a few years.

WOW!!
But is he more powerful than a locomotive, can he run faster than a speeding bullet and is he able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?
It's a bird, it's a plane, no, another longhorn.....:jk:

MorKnolle
11-11-2005, 08:46 AM
So your saying colorado is going to be a tough game, even though ut beat them 42-17 this year, after leading 35-10 at the half. The schedules between Miami, Vtech, and Texas are not that much different. Hell, if Texas would not have beat ohio state, texas tech, or colorado, all of these teams would be in the top 10. Have you seen a Texas game this year?

Yes I have seen a couple UT games this year, and I haven't been overly impressed. Yes, Colorado will be a tough game for them but I do think UT will win.

Yes Ohio State (7-2) managed to beat themselves against Texas, and UT beat Texas Tech (8-1). Colorado (7-2) is currently at #24 and would not be in the top 10 if the UT game had not been played, however they probably would be if they had beaten UT. Other than that they beat Louisiana-Lafayette (4-5 in the Sun Belt), Rice (0-8), Missouri (5-4), Oklahoma (5-3), Oklahoma St. (who was stomping UT in the first half and still hasn't won a Big 12 game yet, 3-5), and Baylor (4-5). 43-35 combined record of opponents not especially impressive, and no way near the #1 schedule strength in the nation for whoever said they had it.

Miami and Virginia Tech have the two best defenses in the nation hands down. I never said either one has a top offense but they are the only teams with a chance of stopping USC's offense, not to mention their special teams with Bush returning kicks.

2006 Rose Bowl score: USC 55, UT 24.

MorKnolle
11-11-2005, 08:47 AM
WOW!!
But is he more powerful than a locomotive, can he run faster than a speeding bullet and is he able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?
It's a bird, it's a plane, no, another longhorn.....:jk:

HAHA, I think this is a funny post. Well done cuppacoffee, I see we are on the same page on this one.

Vinny
11-11-2005, 08:54 AM
I wonder if anybody is old enough to remember Bernie Kosar and his delivery. Obviously not threetoedpete

HomeBred_Texan
11-11-2005, 02:42 PM
I hate hearing about Vince Young this and that.

The kid is good in college, but will NOT make it in the pros.

Unless they give him a job as the waterboy.....:fishing:

StarStruck
11-11-2005, 06:32 PM
I hate hearing about Vince Young this and that.

The kid is good in college, but will NOT make it in the pros.

Unless they give him a job as the waterboy.....:fishing:

I wonder if he does make it and become a superstar if you will (1) keep saying wait until next year, everyone will see what a flop he really is (2) dilsappear without a forwarding address (3) I underestimated his potential.

My money goes on #2

tulexan
11-11-2005, 06:50 PM
I think Vince might be a good player in a few years. Right now he is a work in progress.

The more I think about the USC/Texas game, I think that Texas has a chance, but not a very good one. USC made Oklahoma's inpenetrable defense look like a high school defense last year and USC is even better this year. USC is beatable because their defense isn't great and Notre Dame only lost to them because of a few bad calls at the end of the game, but the USC/Texas game is either going to be a blow out by USC or a very close win either way. Texas is not going to blow out USC and I don't think any team right now is capable of doing so.

HomeBred_Texan
11-11-2005, 07:02 PM
I wonder if he does make it and become a superstar if you will (1) keep saying wait until next year, everyone will see what a flop he really is (2) dilsappear without a forwarding address (3) I underestimated his potential.

My money goes on #2
My money goes on quote number (3)
I will come back here publicly and apologize that I am ignorant and underestimated his potential if you will also do the same if he is like I say, a huge flop like this QB out of the UH that everyone was so high and mighty on many years ago... The ball is in your court...

StarStruck
11-11-2005, 07:33 PM
My money goes on quote number (3)
I will come back here publicly and apologize that I am ignorant and underestimated his potential if you will also do the same if he is like I say, a huge flop like this QB out of the UH that everyone was so high and mighty on many years ago... The ball is in your court...

Deal

Huge
11-12-2005, 07:53 AM
Yes I have seen a couple UT games this year, and I haven't been overly impressed. Yes, Colorado will be a tough game for them but I do think UT will win.

Yes Ohio State (7-2) managed to beat themselves against Texas, and UT beat Texas Tech (8-1). Colorado (7-2) is currently at #24 and would not be in the top 10 if the UT game had not been played, however they probably would be if they had beaten UT. Other than that they beat Louisiana-Lafayette (4-5 in the Sun Belt), Rice (0-8), Missouri (5-4), Oklahoma (5-3), Oklahoma St. (who was stomping UT in the first half and still hasn't won a Big 12 game yet, 3-5), and Baylor (4-5). 43-35 combined record of opponents not especially impressive, and no way near the #1 schedule strength in the nation for whoever said they had it.

Miami and Virginia Tech have the two best defenses in the nation hands down. I never said either one has a top offense but they are the only teams with a chance of stopping USC's offense, not to mention their special teams with Bush returning kicks.

2006 Rose Bowl score: USC 55, UT 24.
And yet you're impressed with Virginia Tech? Let's see, they've beaten...

NC State (4-4) - by 4 points no less.
Duke (1-9)
Ohio (4-5)
Georgia Tech (6-2) - GT's other loss this season...to NC State.
WVU (8-1) - Big East powerhouse...oooo, shudder with fear.
Marshall (4-5)
Maryland (4-4) - remember the 1st half of this game?
Boston College (6-3) - BC just lost to 4-4 North Carolina.

You're right that a 43-35 opponents' record is not overly impressive. So where does that put VT's opponents' 37-33 record?

And of course, we all know what happened when they played a legitimate team...

Huge
11-12-2005, 09:04 AM
Oh, and average scores for those games...

Texas - 48.3
Opponents - 14.3
Difference - 34

VT - 36.8
Opponents - 9.1
Difference - 27.7

'Course, that's not factoring in the Miami game in which VT got dookie stomped.

Talk all you want about how Ohio State "beat themselves" against Texas. But when the Hokies faced a tough team, they got their heads kicked in. Not just beaten...they got throttled...at home...when they knew even a close win would put them that much closer to the Rose.

MorKnolle
11-12-2005, 10:22 AM
And yet you're impressed with Virginia Tech? Let's see, they've beaten...

NC State (4-4) - by 4 points no less.
Duke (1-9)
Ohio (4-5)
Georgia Tech (6-2) - GT's other loss this season...to NC State.
WVU (8-1) - Big East powerhouse...oooo, shudder with fear.
Marshall (4-5)
Maryland (4-4) - remember the 1st half of this game?
Boston College (6-3) - BC just lost to 4-4 North Carolina.

You're right that a 43-35 opponents' record is not overly impressive. So where does that put VT's opponents' 37-33 record?

And of course, we all know what happened when they played a legitimate team...

You forgot about Miami's record, making VT opponent's win percentage better than UT's.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 10:33 AM
NC State and BC may not have great records but they are both very good teams because their defenses are so good.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 10:48 AM
Just a couple of facts from this mornings pregame show...

Vince Young is within 500 yards of being the first NCAA player ever to run for 1000 yards and pass for 2500 yards per Lee Corso - ever. Young has 14 plays over 40 yards and Bush has 5 this year.

threetoedpete
11-12-2005, 10:52 AM
sorry :challenge not going to happen when the majority of scouts think his natural position is WR in the NFL. for starters just ask John McClain :cool:

Texas quarterback Vince Young, a junior, is answering a lot of scout's doubts about whether he can play quarterback in the NFL. Young has improved a lot as a passer, according to several scouts we talked to in the past two weeks. As a runner, he's amazing. "He'll be like Michael Jordan in the NFL," said one scout. "The kid's that special." So where to play him? Some scouts say he'd be unreal as a receiver, but with a quarterback shortage, he will be drafted as a one. And he should.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9035477/2http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9035477/2


And yes Vinny I rember Berrnie. I also remember he got a lot of balls batted back in his face. All I'm saying is he goes back and learns to throw the ball over the top, IMHO,the potetial is there, after the draft he starts chasing Manning. I.E. he's a lock for #1 over all in the next year's (07)draft. That ear lobe delivery has some nfl folks moving him to WR.

Bullpen Drew
11-12-2005, 10:53 AM
I can't think of a star QB who came out of college recently and is doing good in the NFL....drafting a star qb is risky.....

Vinny
11-12-2005, 10:53 AM
And yes Vinny I rember Berrnie. I also remember he got a lot of balls batted back in his face. I don't rememeber that....probably because it wasn't an issue. Why make stuff up?

Vinny
11-12-2005, 10:54 AM
I can't think of a star QB who came out of college recently and is doing good in the NFL....drafting a star qb is risky..... Ever hear of Ben Rothlisberger or Eli Manning?

threetoedpete
11-12-2005, 10:59 AM
I don't rememeber that....probably because it wasn't an issue. Why make stuff up?
Go watch the two denver games again vinny.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:00 AM
Just a couple of facts from this mornings pregame show...

Vince Young is within 500 yards of being the first NCAA player ever to run for 1000 yards and pass for 2500 yards per Lee Corso - ever. Young has 14 plays over 40 yards and Bush has 5 this year.


The amount of plays over 40 yards is a bit misleading because of the amount of touches that Reggie Bush gets per game compared to Vince Young. You have to remember that Reggie is only on the field about half of the time compared to Vince who is on the field every single down.

Bullpen Drew
11-12-2005, 11:02 AM
Ever hear of Ben Rothlisberger or Eli Manning?

Yeah but Ben was Tommy Maddox's backup and he pulled a Kurt Warner, he wasn't a household name in college...

ELI is good so far, but he wasn't the premier QB in the NCAA during his time...

Look at all the other so-called great college qbs over the last few years..its like a who's who list of "where are they now?"

Heisman winners Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Danny Wuerffel...

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:02 AM
Go watch the two denver games again vinny. Show me a QB that doesn't get some of his passes batted down....it just wasn't a big issue like you portray.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:04 AM
The amount of plays over 40 yards is a bit misleading because of the amount of touches that Reggie Bush gets per game compared to Vince Young. You have to remember that Reggie is only on the field about half of the time compared to Vince who is on the field every single down.The only thing misleading is the spin and denial that Young has been a super special QB this year and is on pace for historic achievments that have never been done before.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:04 AM
Look at all the other so-called great college qbs over the last few years..its like a who's who list of "where are they now?"

Heisman winners Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Danny Wuerffel...None of those guys were ever projected to be good pros...ever.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:05 AM
In Michael Vick's first year of starting he lead the Falcons to the playoffs and beat GB at Lambeau.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:07 AM
The only thing misleading is the spin and denial that Young has been a super special QB this year and is on pace for historic achievments that have never been done before.

I think Vince Young is a great player just needs a few years before he will be a quality NFL quarterback.

How many times do I need to say this?

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:10 AM
I think Vince Young is a great player just needs a few years before he will be a quality NFL quarterback.

How many times do I need to say this?You were quick to minimize an incredibly impressive statistic. That's probably why you drew my response. Leinart doesn't have near the amount +40 yard plays either (I think Corso said 8). Go ahead...tell me something to make Young look bad on this one.

Huge
11-12-2005, 11:21 AM
You forgot about Miami's record, making VT opponent's win percentage better than UT's.
I didn't forget. You were listing the teams that Texas beat. Miami doesn't classify as a team VT has beaten (or even come close to beating).
NC State and BC may not have great records but they are both very good teams because their defenses are so good.
Kansas has a really good defense as well (ranked 5th nationally). Think anybody's going to give extra credit to Texas after they wipe the floor with the Jayhawks this afternoon? No, because they're a 5-4 team.
I can't think of a star QB who came out of college recently and is doing good in the NFL....drafting a star qb is risky.....
Yeah but Ben was Tommy Maddox's backup and he pulled a Kurt Warner, he wasn't a household name in college...

ELI is good so far, but he wasn't the premier QB in the NCAA during his time...

Look at all the other so-called great college qbs over the last few years..its like a who's who list of "where are they now?"

Heisman winners Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, Danny Wuerffel...
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Michael Vick
Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger was a household name to anybody that remotely followed college football. You don't got from Miami of Ohio to the 11th pick in the draft w/o somebody knowing about your abilities.

Maybe you missed the records Eli was breaking at Ole Miss. They won far more games than they should have while he was there as well.

If you want to talk about former Heisman QBs that didn't pan out, why not point out the former Heisman RBs that didn't amount to anything as well?
I think Vince Young is a great player just needs a few years before he will be a quality NFL quarterback.

How many times do I need to say this?
Agreed. He's going to need one more year of college and at least 2 years after he's in the league before he'll be ready to take over.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:22 AM
OK, how many open receivers has Vince Young completely missed?

Vince is a great player right now, but it is foolish to believe that he is ready for the NFL. He is still very raw at the quarterback position and needs one more year in college and a few more sitting behind a quarterback in the NFL. I'm sorry that a lot of you Texas fans can't admit that Vince Young has some flaws, but the truth is that he needs more time. His running abilities won't get him far in the NFL because there are defenders who are just as big and just as fast as him.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:24 AM
OK, how many open receivers has Vince Young completely missed?

Vince is a great player right now, but it is foolish to believe that he is ready for the NFL. He is still very raw at the quarterback position and needs one more year in college and a few more sitting behind a quarterback in the NFL. I'm sorry that a lot of you Texas fans can't admit that Vince Young has some flaws, but the truth is that he needs more time. His running abilities won't get him far in the NFL because there are defenders who are just as big and just as fast as him.I'll state it again...I'm not a Texas fan. I'm just a football fan.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:26 AM
How come then I never hear anything about Brian Brohm who is supposed to be a better NFL quarterback than Vince Young?

Huge
11-12-2005, 11:32 AM
Because he's playing for Louisville.

And my plan of not hyping him so that Dallas can be in position to draft him has been working great so far. :D

If he comes out next year, it would not surprise me in the least to see him go ahead of Vince.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:34 AM
How come then I never hear anything about Brian Brohm who is supposed to be a better NFL quarterback than Vince Young?PM Porky...I was talking him up the other day in instant messages. Also, probably because he is a Soph.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:34 AM
I've heard some scouts say that when he comes out he will be the #1 pick.

beerlover
11-12-2005, 11:37 AM
I think Vince Young is a great player just needs a few years before he will be a quality NFL quarterback.

How many times do I need to say this?

you have two choices really.

1). build a system & team around him

2). draft him into an existing system that fits his style

as long as a team follows those two simple rules there is no reason Vince Young cannot be a winner at the next level. off the top of my head a viable situtation might be the Detroit Lions. they have some elite playmakers at WR a good young RB and a west coast, playaction scheme that fits his style (@ QB). right now if you put him on that team I feel he would be a difference maker , I know I would pay MONEY to see it :pigfly:

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:39 AM
Yeah but the Lions will never draft him. They only pick players they don't need.

beerlover
11-12-2005, 11:44 AM
Yeah but the Lions will never draft him. They only pick players they don't need.

they also have a WR fetish, which most scouts still think Vince Young will be once he gets to the NFL :rolleyes:

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:45 AM
That would be funny. I can just see it. The Lions drafting Vince Young as a WR so that they have 4 big receivers and no QB.

Texas_Thrill
11-12-2005, 11:45 AM
All of you naysayers are amazing to me. Bob Griese a man who PLAYED pro quarterback said VY is just too good to be playing in college and will be a good NFL qb.

I agree he needs one more year of seasoning at the college level but for those who think he should be converted to another positoin. GET HELP.

I'll take a hall of fame qb opinion over hall of fame couch potatoes anyday.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:48 AM
Bob Griese also probably said the same thing about his son Brian.

Vinny
11-12-2005, 11:49 AM
Bob Griese also probably said the same thing about his son Brian.At least he doesn't go around hating on players due to the School they dislike.....like a few here in this thread.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 11:51 AM
I think you have confused being realistic with hating.

Huge
11-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Realistic = Poor mechanics so he'll be a WR?

Maybe he should've asked all those former Tulane QBs (Shaun King, Patrick Ramsey, JP Losman) what it takes to be a good NFL QB.

Now that's hating. :)

Texans_Chick
11-12-2005, 12:58 PM
you have two choices really.

1). build a system & team around him

2). draft him into an existing system that fits his style

as long as a team follows those two simple rules there is no reason Vince Young cannot be a winner at the next level. off the top of my head a viable situtation might be the Detroit Lions. they have some elite playmakers at WR a good young RB and a west coast, playaction scheme that fits his style (@ QB). right now if you put him on that team I feel he would be a difference maker , I know I would pay MONEY to see it :pigfly:


I've thought about this a lot and the team I could see him going to is......

The Tennessee Titans.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!! The horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Steve McNair and his family have treated him like he is a part of it. See e.g.:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050619/SPORTS01/506190398/1027

McNair isn't getting any younger and his body has taken a beating. He could continue his mentoring and whatnot.

AND, it may be that this year or next, but the Titans could be in the right draft position to take him.

Other teams I could see getting him are: Saints, Jets, Ravens, Cardinals or shudder, the Raiders.

Al Davis probably completely covets VY. Unconventional and fast.

If he isn't a Texans player, I hope he plays for the Jets. AFC and all, but a good situation for him and not in our freaking division. He could blow up the NY market and be huge if he could handle the pressure of it.

In sum......

Vince

Young

should NEVER

wear

the baby puke blue

and

the ugly flying meatball

EVER!!!!!!

seriously

it would be wrong.

tulexan
11-12-2005, 01:36 PM
Realistic = Poor mechanics so he'll be a WR?

Maybe he should've asked all those former Tulane QBs (Shaun King, Patrick Ramsey, JP Losman) what it takes to be a good NFL QB.

Now that's hating. :)

Give JP some time and Patrick a chance and both could become good players.

Peldon
11-12-2005, 04:04 PM
Vince Young is putting a whippin' on Kansas who has had a decent defense this year. Not good by any means but decent. Young is 8 for 11 with 194 yards passing and 3 tds. Right now the score is 42-0 with 10:00 left in the second quarter. Now you can't say that isn't a heck of a qb or team.

Nawzer
11-12-2005, 04:31 PM
Vince Young is unstoppable today!!! What a game he's having! Here comes no.1 draft pick for Mr.Young. What else has he left to accomplish by staying at UT? Either way this guy is the best college football player I've ever seen.

bigcarlos
11-12-2005, 04:40 PM
He says he is coming back, but he might just be saying that to keep the media away from stirring up things for him and the coaches. Win the heisman, and national championship...what else is there to accomplish? Having a chance to be drafted # 1 overall and play for your hometown NFL team. :texflag:

HomeBred_Texan
11-12-2005, 07:39 PM
Vince Young is unstoppable today!!! What a game he's having! Here comes no.1 draft pick for Mr.Young. What else has he left to accomplish by staying at UT? Either way this guy is the best college football player I've ever seen.
You don't watch much college football do you?

1 good/great game does not make it... He is playing against COLLEGE players, not pro defenses. Come on, give us a break....

Huge
11-12-2005, 07:57 PM
It doesn't matter who the #1 pick in the draft is/will be. They're playing against college players as well.

Peldon
11-12-2005, 08:18 PM
You don't watch much college football do you?

1 good/great game does not make it... He is playing against COLLEGE players, not pro defenses. Come on, give us a break....

I hope Young stays in school for one more year just to improve his passing which I agree is not great. There are a lot of times he throws a ball up for grabs and his recievers make the play. However, I can't recall a quarterback who has more poise than Young has had this year. He is the most confident player I have seen in a long time.

I'm still not sure how his abilities will translate to the NFL but you can't argue with the results he puts up. I agree that one game does not make it, but he has put up great numbers all year. Yes he plays on a great team but he is still the driving force on the offence that is one of the highest scoring in the NCAA. Again, yes he is playing against COLLEGE players but so are Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart. I'm not going to say lets draft him and he will save our team but don't put down the quality of his play...yet. :)

tulexan
11-13-2005, 09:32 AM
He did have some game yesterday, but it was an example of exactly what I was saying and the announcers actually said the same thing. He cannot continue to just throw the ball up and hope that his receiver gets it. He will get killed in the NFL if he does that. That is why he needs one more year at college so that he stops throwing that jump ball all the time.

Vinny
11-13-2005, 09:42 AM
Single coverage and a big arm....you throw that pass. Young changes the way defenses cover their wide outs (deep single - no help)...you have to make those passes. It's amazing you guys are critical of a guy who leads his team to a 50-0 halftime lead. If it was 100-0 at the half you guys would pick him apart. Hilarious insight guys.

tulexan
11-13-2005, 09:54 AM
I think it is hilarious how you blindly follow his every move. It's not just me and a few other guys criticizing poor Vince Young. If you throw that many jump balls you are going to get intercepted. The announcers in the game were even saying that he has been getting lucky making those passes. Just because the guy is from Houston and goes to Texas does not mean that he is perfect. This reminds me of when everyone was going nuts about Gerald Green and how he was going to be the best player in the NBA draft last year.

Vinny
11-13-2005, 10:00 AM
I think it is hilarious how you blindly follow his every move. I was this enthustic about Rothlisberger his sr year too but you haven't been around for 5 years like I have and if you knew be better you would know Im not a homer fan type. I'm just a big football fan who talks up the guys I think will be amazing. I don't worship players or just follow them because they play at Tulane or anything. Sure, I've seen a ton of VY...but if he was in Wisconson I'd be pimping this future superstar.

tulexan
11-13-2005, 10:17 AM
Funny I don't believe I have gone out of my way to worship a Tulane player. I have commented on them if someone says something about them because I probably have had more exposure to their game, but that is about it.

You are going beyond pimping Vince Young. You can't even admit that some of the stuff that he does is boneheaded. If he threw an interception in the redzone you would probably say that it was a smart move because now they have bad field position. No one is denying that Vince is a great college player and I don't think anyone here is saying that he has zero chance of being a star in the NFL. Almost everyone is simply saying that he is still very raw and needs a lot of time (including one more year in college) before he can be successful.

If you are truly rational like you claim. Where is the love for Brady Quinn who has better numbers and is playing in a pro style offense? How about Drew Olsen who is putting up a ridiculous 10:1 TD-INT ratio including a 500 yard game last night? There is none because the fact that Vince is from Houston and goes to Texas is like wool over your eyes that prevents you from seeing any imperfection that he has.

Vinny
11-13-2005, 10:25 AM
No kidding some people think he will be average....or good, or even bad, but I obviously think he will be something special. I can't just transfer my thoughts via my psychic abilities....I have to post those thoughts for you to read them, so try to forgive me for talking up someone who I think may be a once in a lifetime talent. On Quinn, he isn't coming out and there is a chance that Young may so I tend to talk about the guys coming into the league this year (I named this forum the future stars of the NFL...so I just tend to talk about the guys who are coming out or have a good chance too come out in the current season more - I'm a big NFL fan in case you missed the memo). Besides, I don't see anyone else who changes the way defenses play in many players....I think he is special. I also think I am rational and have a long history of giving good football takes. I don't think many people will accuse me of being a homer...or have much bias on my favorite teams or local kids.

Johnny Utah
11-13-2005, 10:37 AM
Vince Young has that Jeff Blake ability to lob the ball up for his WR and give them the chance to make a play. This is something that I wish David Carr would be able to do with AJ.

Huge
11-13-2005, 10:40 AM
What's the difference between a deep ball and a jump ball? Or can you give an example of one of his passes that didn't cover 30+ yards that could be described as a jump ball?

HomeBred_Texan
11-13-2005, 10:44 AM
I hope Young stays in school for one more year just to improve his passing which I agree is not great. There are a lot of times he throws a ball up for grabs and his recievers make the play. However, I can't recall a quarterback who has more poise than Young has had this year. He is the most confident player I have seen in a long time.

I'm still not sure how his abilities will translate to the NFL but you can't argue with the results he puts up. I agree that one game does not make it, but he has put up great numbers all year. Yes he plays on a great team but he is still the driving force on the offence that is one of the highest scoring in the NCAA. Again, yes he is playing against COLLEGE players but so are Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart. I'm not going to say lets draft him and he will save our team but don't put down the quality of his play...yet. :)
Since we all saw him throw the ball up for grabs and his receivers came down with them, maybe we should think about drafting those receivers instead of someone slinging the ball up in the air...

tulexan
11-13-2005, 10:59 AM
What's the difference between a deep ball and a jump ball? Or can you give an example of one of his passes that didn't cover 30+ yards that could be described as a jump ball?

The difference between a jump ball and a deep ball is hitting your man in stride. Vince has hit people in stride, but he tends more to throw these balls where the receiver has to stop and out jump the defender to catch the ball. I know Culpeper has a history of throwing jump balls to Randy Moss in the endzone, but Vince Young does not have a freak like Randy Moss on the team, and Vince also throws these passes in the middle of the field rather than just the endzone.

Huge
11-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Every QB throws passes that fit the description you just laid out. Put in a game tape of Eli Manning this year and watch how many passes Plaxico Burress has caught in this fashion. Young's pass to Sweed might've been the only one that fits that description (although how stupid would it be not to throw to a 6'5 WR that's being single covered by a 5'10 DB?). His bomb to Cosby was nothing close to resembling what you described.

So one pass out of 27 is "continually throwing jump balls"?

tulexan
11-13-2005, 11:37 AM
He does it every game. He is notorious for his floaters.

Huge
11-13-2005, 02:16 PM
Once again, every QB throws passes like this. Brad Johnson just threw one to Travis Taylor against New York (TD nulified by offensive pass interference). Vince is no more "notorious" for doing this than any other QB on any other level.

Can you give me an example of a QB that doesn't throw these types of passes?

Vinny
11-13-2005, 02:22 PM
Can you give me an example of a QB that doesn't throw these types of passes?David Carr :challenge

Fiddy
11-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Vince Young saw the biggest mismatch on the field: A 5'10" CB with no help on a 6'5" WR who can jump.

I dont see how you can rip him for that pass.

tulexan
11-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Brad Johnson threw that pass in the endzone. Vince Young throws the floaters all over the field. When you throw a bomb, you should be throwing it to the receiver in stride. The receiver should not have to stop, turn around, and wait for the ball to come down while fighting with the corner back. Watch Peyton Manning throw deep balls.

tulexan
11-13-2005, 02:33 PM
Vince Young saw the biggest mismatch on the field: A 5'10" CB with no help on a 6'5" WR who can jump.

I dont see how you can rip him for that pass.

I was talking about a different pass.

Fiddy
11-13-2005, 02:39 PM
I was talking about a different pass. Well that pass is a "floater" that resulted in TD.

Peldon
11-13-2005, 03:10 PM
Well that pass is a "floater" that resulted in TD.

I think he is talking about the pass to Quan Cosby where he was interfered with and still got the touchdown. That ball was thrown up for grabs but the reciever acutally had a better chance to catch it if you look close.

Fiddy
11-13-2005, 03:24 PM
I think he is talking about the pass to Quan Cosby where he was interfered with and still got the touchdown. That ball was thrown up for grabs but the reciever acutally had a better chance to catch it if you look close. Vince Young goes into most games knowing that he plays for the 2nd best team in the country which means that his WRs are most likey better than the opposing teams CBs. Why not throw "floaters" to the WRs who are superior than the CBs???

Peldon
11-13-2005, 03:30 PM
Vince Young goes into most games knowing that he plays for the 2nd best team in the country which means that his WRs are most likey better than the opposing teams CBs. Why not throw "floaters" to the WRs who are superior than the CBs???

I agree, he can get away with it no problem right now. However, I would like to see him stay in school one more year, and show everyone that he can make the tough, accurate passes. I think he could be a great NFL qb eventually but right now he hasn't shown me the kind of accuracy and zip on some of his passes that I, personally, would like to see. If he does come out and plays right away, I won't be suprised if he doesn't pan out to what some think he will.

Huge
11-13-2005, 03:32 PM
Brad Johnson threw that pass in the endzone. Vince Young throws the floaters all over the field. When you throw a bomb, you should be throwing it to the receiver in stride. The receiver should not have to stop, turn around, and wait for the ball to come down while fighting with the corner back. Watch Peyton Manning throw deep balls.
If Vince throws floaters all over the field, it should be no problem for you to provide an example from yesterday's game.

If you think Peyton Manning doesn't throw these types of passes, you're delusional. If you think Vince only throws these types of passes and he's exclusive, you're in denial.

BTW, JP Losman tossed a TD today...it was a jump ball.

I was talking about a different pass.
Which pass were you referring to?

I think he is talking about the pass to Quan Cosby where he was interfered with and still got the touchdown. That ball was thrown up for grabs but the reciever acutally had a better chance to catch it if you look close.
I really hope he's not referring to that pass.

MorKnolle
11-14-2005, 08:45 AM
I can't think of a star QB who came out of college recently and is doing good in the NFL....drafting a star qb is risky.....

Carson Palmer is finally living up to his hype.

MorKnolle
11-14-2005, 09:12 AM
Vince Young saw the biggest mismatch on the field: A 5'10" CB with no help on a 6'5" WR who can jump.

I dont see how you can rip him for that pass.

I don't fault him for the decision at all cause I would have done the same, although the pass was badly underthrown and offensive interference could have been called as well on one of them.

Coach C.
11-14-2005, 01:59 PM
Mork Mork Mork you continously bring the meat to these poor hungry UT HOMERS. They feel VY is the second coming of whoever they consider the best QB before young. he can lead any team at any level to the promise land and we should respect their view. No matter how assinine and foolish it is. Hell I think Winston will play better than Ferguson in the NFL. I doubt that Ferguson can keep his weight up and will suffer injuries due to that fact. But I like kids from the U with chips on their shoulder and mean streaks. i could be wrong also.

VY will be good, but padding your stats on Kansas so you look like a good passer is pathetic.

MorKnolle
11-14-2005, 03:45 PM
I didn't forget. You were listing the teams that Texas beat. Miami doesn't classify as a team VT has beaten (or even come close to beating).

I was comparing all of UT and VT's schedules, not just the teams they beat.

Kansas has a really good defense as well (ranked 5th nationally). Think anybody's going to give extra credit to Texas after they wipe the floor with the Jayhawks this afternoon? No, because they're a 5-4 team.

How is Kansas' defense ranked 5th nationally? Even before playing UT they were allowing 18.2 points per game which is no where near 5th nationally. The top few defenses are Miami, Virginia Tech, and Auburn.

Htown34s
11-14-2005, 04:05 PM
How is Kansas' defense ranked 5th nationally? Even before playing UT they were allowing 18.2 points per game which is no where near 5th nationally.

They were holding teams to 64 yards rushing per game, #1 run D in the country. Now, UT showed them to be a fraud, but its still hard to allow only 64 ypg for that long.