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Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 10:41 PM
:texflag: Anyone see MNF when they were talking about Atlanta's OL ? They're for the most part 5th -7th rd picks . They believe that if your smart they can teach you the rest .

F-minus67
10-27-2005, 11:17 PM
Not to mention that they have Alex Gibbs who is one of the top 5 line coachs ever.

Ibar_Harry
10-27-2005, 11:34 PM
Not to mention that they have Alex Gibbs who is one of the top 5 line coachs ever.

I didn't know coaching made a difference. Oh, that's why we have Pendry...

texan279
10-27-2005, 11:40 PM
:texflag: Anyone see MNF when they were talking about Atlanta's OL ? They're for the most part 5th -7th rd picks . They believe that if your smart they can teach you the rest .

And the Falcons run zone blocking...They have the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the 28th ranked passing offense in the NFL and have allowed 15 sacks, tied for 9th most sacks allowed in the NFL. Last season they allowed 50 sacks, 1 more than we allowed last season. Their pass blocking isn't the greatest...

ArlingtonTexan
10-27-2005, 11:50 PM
The only position on the OL where a top pick has to be spent is LT. I did a quick run through of the normal starting LTs(a couple injured) in the league in this is what I found.

1st round- 16 starters every true elite LT drafted in this round mostly top half
2nd round- 6 starters... a couple of good, solid guys, no elite types
3rd round- 5 starters...think none of these guys above average
4th round 1 starter...
7th round- 1 starter
FA- 3 starters

Basically to get a quality LT, a team has to use a high, normally first round draft pick to get one. Just glancing while doing this all the other OL positions had a pretty large spread of picks throughout the draft.

Ibar_Harry
10-28-2005, 12:02 AM
And the Falcons run zone blocking...They have the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the 28th ranked passing offense in the NFL and have allowed 15 sacks, tied for 9th most sacks allowed in the NFL. Last season they allowed 50 sacks, 1 more than we allowed last season. Their pass blocking isn't the greatest...

Now, remember zone blocking has no affect on the passing game. You should know better than to hint that a zone blocking team might not be an efficient passing team. Oh, and yes, Sacks are not the result of employing the zone blocking scheme.

nunusguy
10-28-2005, 06:48 AM
:texflag: Anyone see MNF when they were talking about Atlanta's OL ? They're for the most part 5th -7th rd picks . They believe that if your smart they can teach you the rest .
I dunno.....tough to discover what is the common denominator for a successful OL. The Texans regular OL starters last couple years has 3
players selected in the second round: Pitts, Weigert, Wade. Weigert was
a tackle in college (won the Outland trophy with the Cornhuskers), but has
played mostly guard in the pros. Maybe Wade is really an NFL guard, even
though a tackle in college like Weigert ? But if the Falcons can put together
a good OL combination with late second day talent, why can't we with an OL dominated by first day picks ? No, that's too simplistic. Forget it, must be something more complex that that ?

Runner
10-28-2005, 07:49 AM
Weigert was a tackle in college (won the Outland trophy with the Cornhuskers), but has
played mostly guard in the pros. Maybe Wade is really an NFL guard, even
though a tackle in college like Weigert ?

I think lot of guys who played tackle in college might end up as guards in the NFL. I haven't sifted through reams of data to find out, but it seems that college coaches would put their best lineman at LT. Then, when they are drafted they are moved to their "natural NFL position" since the NFL coachhas other NFL quality players to choose from at LT.

Kaiser Toro
10-28-2005, 08:44 AM
And the Falcons run zone blocking...They have the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the 28th ranked passing offense in the NFL and have allowed 15 sacks, tied for 9th most sacks allowed in the NFL. Last season they allowed 50 sacks, 1 more than we allowed last season. Their pass blocking isn't the greatest...

What even makes me scratch my head more is that their recievers are Jenkins, Finneran and White. Although they do have the Crumpler.

eriadoc
10-28-2005, 08:52 AM
What even makes me scratch my head more is that their recievers are Jenkins, Finneran and White. Although they do have the Crumpler.

Those three wide receivers have seemed to do very well when Matt Schaub has played. Just an observation.

BigBull17
10-28-2005, 09:17 AM
Those three wide receivers have seemed to do very well when Matt Schaub has played. Just an observation.
Schaub is a hell of a QB. He should get alot of attention in the offseason. I think he is a better QB than Vick in almost every aspect and its a shame he wont ever get to start in that system.

Vinny
10-28-2005, 09:23 AM
Schaub is a hell of a QB. He should get alot of attention in the offseason. I think he is a better QB than Vick in almost every aspect and its a shame he wont ever get to start in that system. SI has Schaub listed as number 9 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/10/27/gallery.10franchiseqbsfinal/content.2.html) on the young franchise QB's in the NFL. Carr isn't on the list. Peyton is 11...they don't list him because they explain they are listing young QB's to build a team around. Peyton is an 8 year vet.

eriadoc
10-28-2005, 09:29 AM
Schaub is a hell of a QB. He should get alot of attention in the offseason. I think he is a better QB than Vick in almost every aspect and its a shame he wont ever get to start in that system.

Is he a FA this off-season? I would really like to see the Texans either re-work Carr's contract or cut ties with him and pursue someone like Schaub in '06. We can get the O-line up to snuff and then, if necessary, draft a QB in '07. Hopefully, Carr shows a turnaround in '06 behind a better line and the team can proceed with that as their plan, but Schaub could provide competition for the starting job, at the very least, and maybe take it.

Honoring Earl 34
10-28-2005, 09:53 AM
Vinny I think your better of refering to Carr as FHFC ( Future Hall of Famer Carr ) that way you won't get the snide comments back .

Anyway I started this thread about building an OL . It appears that all good lines ( Pitt , Seattle , KC ) all have some # 1 picks . Its also apparent that its better to average 315 lbs than 335 lbs . It seems that a good LT is very rare .

If the draft has a coulpe of stud LTs ... I say take him and let him play RT a couple of years like Gallery . I would say take an interior OL early also . This and a good OL coach should get that group going in the right direction .

College Texan
10-28-2005, 10:40 AM
Why take a first rounder to play a position he won't be on forever?
I say you have to move pitts to a side where he will never have to move back from, and I think he should be our right tackle, we cold have two all-pro tackles,
assuming we draft a stud in the first. I think Mkinney can redeem his career at LG, and the center should get better, I still think a third round center would be good for competition and depth or to move to RG, but right guard should be a mix of players until we find a keeper, wand should have played here imo, but we can also play riley there, since hes a good run blocker, and if we were to draft one, I think blacklock from ut wont leave till next year.

Vinny
10-28-2005, 10:42 AM
Why take a first rounder to play a position he won't be on forever?
I say you have to move pitts to a side where he will never have to move back from, and I think he should be our right tackle, we cold have two all-pro tackles, assuming we draft a stud in the first. I think drafting a LT and moving Pitts to RT and putting Wade at RG would cure many ills on this line.

Honoring Earl 34
10-28-2005, 10:59 AM
:texflag: Robert Gallery was a can't miss LT . If he can't start as a rookie then I would expect the same for a LT this year . Now I did not take into account the other guys carring him .

Ibar_Harry
10-28-2005, 11:06 AM
I think drafting a LT and moving Pitts to RT and putting Wade at RG would cure many ills on this line.

Yes, Vinny and I think he should be moved right now. As you know I would like to see the line of Wand, Wiegert, Hodgdon, Pitts and Wade from left to right. I still believe that is our best line, but it will never see the light of day because of this coaching staff. You have your oppions and I have mine. I still think Wand is a victum of Pitts when Wand was playing tackle. I think Wiegert and Wand would work very well together along with the young Center. This way you would have an experience O-lineman next to Wand and the young center. Pitts would be shoring up the other side with an experience lineman next to him. Working combinations is as important as talent sometimes. Remember, Wand held his own against Feeney. He was attributed to allowing very few sacks. His problems begin with - oh my god - the zone blocking scheme. But then so did everyone else. Oh, well, you can drag a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Honoring Earl 34
10-28-2005, 12:22 PM
:texflag: Just asking but is Wade to tall for a guard ? I thought the ideal guard is 6'3 or 6'4 . This is to get leverage .

Vinny
10-28-2005, 12:33 PM
:texflag: Just asking but is Wade to tall for a guard ? I thought the ideal guard is 6'3 or 6'4 . This is to get leverage .There have been good Guards taller than that. Bruce Matthews didn't have any issues at 6'5". Wade isn't athletic enough to be at the Tackle from what I've seen now that he has a full year under his belt here.

nunusguy
10-28-2005, 12:39 PM
I think drafting a LT and moving Pitts to RT and putting Wade at RG would cure many ills on this line.
I like the sounds of that, especially if we can get some production out of
"Big Bucks/Cap" Wade cause he doesn't seem to be playing as expected at
RT. What about the other 2 slots with Hodgdon & McKinney at center and LG, respectively ? Could either be a long term solution, or do we need to look
to the Draft and/or FA for those OL positions ? Suppose its really a little early
to know if Hodgdon can be our long-term starter, or just a reserve ? He did play well last week against Indy (atleast in the first half).

College Texan
10-28-2005, 12:42 PM
I think shawn andrews for the eagles was 6'6 last year, if he can say a little lower he should be good. How tall is wiegert

Vinny
10-28-2005, 12:42 PM
I like the sounds of that, especially if we can get some production out of
"Big Bucks/Cap" Wade cause he doesn't seem to be playing as expected at
RT. What about the other 2 slots with Hodgdon & McKinney at center and LG, respectively ? Could either be a long term solution, or do we need to look
to the Draft and/or FA for those OL positions ? Suppose its really a little early
to know if Hodgdon can be our long-term starter, or just a reserve ? He did play well last week against Indy (atleast in the first half).I thought Hodgdon has played well so far after looking at the plays in slow motion. I'd just cut McKinney since he is going to have a cap hit of $4,706,160 next season and try to sign a quality Guard in Free Agency. That would give us a young prototype LT, Pitts at RT where his good feet will give us the pass blocking we need in additon to being a good run blocker at RT, a solid mauler at RG, and a young developing Center in Hodgdon.

Vinny
10-28-2005, 12:44 PM
How tall is wiegert6'5"

College Texan
10-28-2005, 12:58 PM
I wonder how the center in going to do agianst stroud and henderson, I bet they stunt right at him. If Mkinney is in trouble of being a cap casualty then he should think about restucturing his contract and taking one for the team.

TheOgre
10-28-2005, 01:00 PM
I think drafting a LT and moving Pitts to RT and putting Wade at RG would cure many ills on this line.

I like that idea. Wade is a monster run blocker but he struggles against anyone with any pass-rush skills. Pitts is definitely a superior pass-blocker compared to Wade. Wade wouldn't face as many good rushers at RG. I guess McKinney or Brown would be our LG and Hodgdon or McKinney our C?

College Texan
10-28-2005, 01:10 PM
have ya seen how many sacks wiegert gave up, and I think henderson plays on top of that RG position this should be problematic for us, I would also like to see wand rotate the spot with wade and that should be the only place where anybody who's last name begins with W should play.

College Texan
10-28-2005, 01:27 PM
Where is the gellin that the o-line was suppose to experience. I don't think that
switching ppl in training camp and moving ppl around for the seatle game was helpin the gellin. Someone made a comment at the seatle game tht they should just get five guys and stick them to the position and not move ppl around. Have ya seen how the colts line is gelled, that is the best line imo, i remember lst year seein the RT of the colts pull all the way to the left side to pick up the end, that was how their scheme which was called at the line of scrimage was drawn up. I would like to see our line eventually work this way

infantrycak
10-28-2005, 01:32 PM
have ya seen how many sacks wiegert gave up,

1.5 in 2003, 5 in 2004 and .5 in 2005.

Texas
10-28-2005, 01:33 PM
We have about 500 different threads about are O-Line. How about we make 1 big one and then post them all there?

ArlingtonTexan
10-28-2005, 02:59 PM
We have about 500 different threads about are O-Line. How about we make 1 big one and then post them all there?

The same can be said for Carr, passing game, blame Casserly, blame Capers, lack of pass rush threads.Everything will be a variation on the same themes because the team still has the same issues (to a worse degree) that it has had for its 4 year existence. Honestly, we won't cover any new ground unless there is a miracle turn around or when the current staff is no longer employeed.

utahmark
10-28-2005, 03:25 PM
I thought Hodgdon has played well so far after looking at the plays in slow motion. I'd just cut McKinney since he is going to have a cap hit of $4,706,160 next season and try to sign a quality Guard in Free Agency. That would give us a young prototype LT, Pitts at RT where his good feet will give us the pass blocking we need in additon to being a good run blocker at RT, a solid mauler at RG, and a young developing Center in Hodgdon.


sounds good!!!!