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View Full Version : Blame game names Casserly and Capers


Texizgreat
10-26-2005, 10:01 PM
From Fox.......

Blame game names Casserly and Capers
Houston Chronicle
Chronicle columnist John McClain says Houston GM Charley Casserly and coach Dom Capers could both walk the plank if they fail to right the Texans' ship soon.

http://msn.foxsports.com/name/FS/rumors

the only thing they dont say is WHEN !!!!

CowboysTexansFan
10-26-2005, 11:32 PM
I was very happy to read that column this morning. I think it's a foregoing conclusion that the coaches won't be around this year, but it's equally important that Casserly is gone as well. I don't trust him with our draft picks, especially the one that could be first overall. And I don't trust him to pick the right free agents to sign.

He doesn't need to be forced to walk the plank, he needs to be thrown overboard.

Marcus
10-27-2005, 01:30 AM
. . . the only thing they dont say is WHEN !!!!

If you're expecting it to happen before the season ends . . . . DON'T !!!!

Texans Horror
10-27-2005, 02:00 AM
"And then there's a defense that couldn't stop a run in a pair of pantyhose."

Nice.

Double Barrel
10-27-2005, 11:34 AM
Obviously, I agree with JM about Coach Capers, but I'm up in the air about Casserly.

Even though I'm in the Fire Capers Club, I hope they wait until the season is over before letting him go.

Funny quote about the pantyhose! :heh:

Wharton
10-27-2005, 12:33 PM
If you're expecting it to happen before the season ends . . . . DON'T !!!!

I don't expect either men to go before the end of the year, but I would prefer to have a new GM in place now due to the timing of the Carr contract. If a new GM comes into the Texans, he may get stuck with a hefty contract for a beat down quarterback.

I think David came into the league with allot of potential that has steadily been beat out of him. I am not sure if he will ever be able to stand in the pocket and deliver a clean pass. I definitely think the new GM should be responsible for the decision on David contract since this decision will effect his tenure. If Charlie makes the decision to exercise the option, it could hamper the next GM for more then the terms of the contract.

Coach C.
10-27-2005, 01:17 PM
Carr is worth the option and I am glad that McNair is smarter than most of the people on this board and makes this move.

Now McNair must not let me down and keep up his search for a new GM and HC.

eriadoc
10-27-2005, 01:38 PM
Carr is worth the option and I am glad that McNair is smarter than most of the people on this board and makes this move.

Now McNair must not let me down and keep up his search for a new GM and HC.

It's not been clearly demonstrated that Carr is a bust or that he does not have a future with this franchise. I think it has been clearly demonstrated that his performance to this point, for a variety of reasons, should not warrant a $5.5 mil or $8 mil extension. Unfortunately, I am not sure the Texans have many options, short of cutting ties with him altogether.

bckey
10-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Carr is worth the option and I am glad that McNair is smarter than most of the people on this board and makes this move.

Now McNair must not let me down and keep up his search for a new GM and HC.

I'm sure glad we have you Coach C to set everyone straight. How did we ever get along without you.:sarcasm:

nunusguy
10-27-2005, 03:48 PM
Carr is worth the option and I am glad that McNair is smarter than most of the people on this board and makes this move.

OK Coach, make your case. Tell me why we should pay Carr and keep him instead of dealing him for the top draft pick we can get in next years Draft ?

infantrycak
10-27-2005, 03:52 PM
What is the full hypothetical nunu? I mean it really matters if the top draft pick the Texans can get is a 6th vs. a 1st.

Salibu
10-27-2005, 03:57 PM
...

nunusguy
10-27-2005, 04:03 PM
What is the full hypothetical nunu? I mean it really matters if the top draft pick the Texans can get is a 6th vs. a 1st.
Sorry, but I don't understand what you're asking ? What I was asking Coach was to give me his reason(s) for picking up Carr's option and keeping him instead of trading him for the most value we can get in the form of Draft
pick(s) in next years college draft. FWIW, I'm unsure of whats in the best interests of the Texans on this matter.

J-Man
10-27-2005, 04:03 PM
I think that best case we could get a mid-2nd rounder from a team that is hurting for a QB. Most likely it would be something like a 3rd w/ a player and some a late round pick or two.

Just my guess.

dalemurphy
10-27-2005, 04:04 PM
I don't know whether Carr will ever become a good starting QB at this point. However, I desperately want to see him extended. The last thing this team needs is to spend the first pick on another QB when it could be parlayed into 5-6 first day picks. Until we have a philosophical change on offense and a better group protecting the QB, a new QB won't make any difference.

Trading the Leinert pick would give us ammunition to get an elite LT out of the draft and also draft 2 interior lineman in addition to spending 3 first day picks on defense or perhaps even a TE. At this point, I'm routing for the losing streak to continue!

J-Man
10-27-2005, 04:07 PM
BTW...I thought it was already a done deal that Carr's option was picked up. It was reported on ESPN and discussed here in the boards a week or so ago, was this a reporting error?
Or is this just our standard "monday morning QBing" ?

infantrycak
10-27-2005, 04:09 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand what you're asking ? What I was asking Coach was to give me his reason(s) for picking up Carr's option and keeping him instead of trading him for the most value we can get in the form of Draft
pick(s) in next years college draft. FWIW, I'm unsure of whats in the best interests of the Texans on this matter.

I just don't see how that decision can be made unless you have zero faith in Carr and want to trade him for literally anything. IMO there is a huge difference between the decision to trade him for a 1st vs. trade him for a 7th.

Realistically though, this whole hypothetical doesn't work. Carr is a free agent after this season unless the option is exercised prior to the last game of the season. If they exercise the option they will be keeping him. If they don't, they can't ask for anything in trade because they don't have any rights in him.

HomeBred_Texan
10-27-2005, 04:13 PM
"And then there's a defense that couldn't stop a run in a pair of pantyhose."

Nice.
No defense could stop the oppenent when they are on the field for 45 minutes of a 60 minute game.

humbleone
10-27-2005, 04:38 PM
No defense could stop the oppenent when they are on the field for 45 minutes of a 60 minute game.

That works as an excuse for why you wouldn't be able to stop a drive late in the 4th Q...it has nothing to do with why we can't get the defense off of the field in Q1-3.

nunusguy
10-27-2005, 04:40 PM
I just don't see how that decision can be made unless you have zero faith in Carr and want to trade him for literally anything. IMO there is a huge difference between the decision to trade him for a 1st vs. trade him for a 7th.
Realistically though, this whole hypothetical doesn't work. Carr is a free agent after this season unless the option is exercised prior to the last game of the season. If they exercise the option they will be keeping him. If they don't, they can't ask for anything in trade because they don't have any rights in him.
OK, got ya. I think Carr would be a valuable commodity on the "open market" and might very well be worth a first round pick to certain other teams. He has
talent and experience as a starter and is still a youthful NFL player. I suppose its a question of the condition of his psyche at this point. Now I was under
the impression the Texans could negotiate the option rights they hold to another team that would assume those option rights which would of course include paying Carr his bonus ? You seem to be saying
we can't negotiate our option with Carr with a third party ? If that's the case, couldn't we just exercise our option and then trade to another team
at that point, assuming we had somebody waiting in the wings ?

dalemurphy
10-27-2005, 05:00 PM
No defense could stop the oppenent when they are on the field for 45 minutes of a 60 minute game.

First of all, the Texans' offense isn't that poor at time of posession. Second, the defense is also responsible for that statistic. If you are last in the league in rush defense and you don't collect any 3 and outs, then you will be on the field most of the game.

I agree that the Texan offense is the worst in the league. However, the defense is awful as well and I'm tired of it getting a free pass. The defense doesn't tackle well, it doesn't chase the ball well, doesn't pressure the QB, and is poor in pass coverage. Oh yeah, no turnovers either. It's the worst defens in the NFL. This team is the worst team in the NFL in recent memory- We are worse than last year's 49er team, much worse than last year's Miami team!

infantrycak
10-27-2005, 05:15 PM
Now I was under
the impression the Texans could negotiate the option rights they hold to another team that would assume those option rights which would of course include paying Carr his bonus ? You seem to be saying
we can't negotiate our option with Carr with a third party ? If that's the case, couldn't we just exercise our option and then trade to another team
at that point, assuming we had somebody waiting in the wings ?

My understanding is we are past the trade deadline and the clause must be exercised during the season prior to trading opening up again. So we can't trade prior to exercising the option. On the flip side, if we keep him, i.e. exercise the option, and were to trade him, all the bonus money would crash onto one year's salary cap for us. So in theory you could exercise the $8 mil option for 3 years and trade Carr, but then we would have $8 mil of dead money on the cap for Carr. It could happen theoretically, but I don't see it happening as a realistic matter.

Double Barrel
10-27-2005, 05:46 PM
No defense could stop the oppenent when they are on the field for 45 minutes of a 60 minute game.

Sure they can! The Texans defense proved it in 2002 when they beat the Steelers 24-6 in the lowest offensive production by a winning team (47 yards vs. the Steelers 422 yards). :texans:

Pittsburgh had the ball for over 50 minutes of the game!

Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=221208023)

But that was back in the day when our defense showed promise and had veteran leadership. For whatever reason(s), Coach Capers & Co. decided leadership and promise were too much to expect, so they cut both in the off-season.

Wharton
10-27-2005, 07:48 PM
i think most everyone assumes the decision has already been made, presumably by mcnair himself

I agree, allot of people have made that assumption, and I think its a real big assumptions. I negotiate real estate contracts for a living and have found that the deal isn't done until the papers are signed.

If Carr continues to spiral downward, it wouldn't surprise me to see Carr released and resigned at a much lower salary. If the option is exercised, Carr's contract will extends through 2008 and he is due a pro-rated $8 million bonus plus a base salary of $5.25 million in 2006 and 2007 and $6 million in 2008. This equates to a total salary of $7.9 million plus some change next year. Below is a list of quarterback salaries from USA Today. Once you sort the list by "Total Salary", take a look at who gets paid $7.9 million:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=3&order=BaseSalary+desc

Carr performance to date does not resemble the production of Jake Delhomme, Byron Leftwich, or Brett Farve.

The bottom line is this - based on expected salary and expected production, the Texans could take a chance of loosing Carr and still pick up a QB like Chris Wenke or Tommy Maddox for allot less money and, given the state of the o-line, get the same production. Or, the Texans could go after a bigger name like Drew Breez. Of coarse, given the number of sack the Texans give up each year, I don't see a top notch QB coming here.

As far as I know, the option has not been exercised, yet. You need three things to close a deal

1) a willing and able seller - David Carr would love for the Texans to exercise the option because it makes for a huge payday that no other team will give him. Think about it, given the list of QB salaries listed above, how much would you give to a David Carr as a FA. My guess would be around $1 million annually.

2) a willing and able buyer - That’s the big question here. We've gotten some lip service from the front office about being willing, but I am not convinced at this time. Also, given the hostility on this board towards David, a change may be required to appease the fans, after all this is still a business and empty seats means less ancillary money like concessions and product purchases.

3) a sense of urgency to complete the deal - The longer the option sit, the colder the deal becomes. If by the end of the year, the Texans are performing as badly as they are now, don't be surprised if the deal falls through.

Well, its a little long winded, but that's my :twocents:

Vinny
10-27-2005, 08:02 PM
BTW...I thought it was already a done deal that Carr's option was picked up. It was reported on ESPN and discussed here in the boards a week or so ago, was this a reporting error?
Or is this just our standard "monday morning QBing" ?It hasn't been picked up yet. Casserly said this (our decision to already sign Carr) was pure speculation on the part of Pastabelly. He said he didn't know his source but it was just a guess. He said there is a time for everything and we aren't there yet with Carr.....he then went on to infer that Carr is wonderful and he is Phil Simms or Terry Bradshaw waiting to happen.

HomeBred_Texan
10-28-2005, 06:27 AM
Sure they can! The Texans defense proved it in 2002 when they beat the Steelers 24-6 in the lowest offensive production by a winning team (47 yards vs. the Steelers 422 yards). :texans:

Pittsburgh had the ball for over 50 minutes of the game!

Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=221208023)

But that was back in the day when our defense showed promise and had veteran leadership. For whatever reason(s), Coach Capers & Co. decided leadership and promise were too much to expect, so they cut both in the off-season.
And if you go back to before the draft, many people said, let's draft defense/ I felt like a loner when I said leave it alone and draft offense. Offense wins games.

FILO_girl
10-28-2005, 06:58 AM
I ask y'all this on Carr...

What makes you think he will be better with a different O line, at this point?
You beat a good dog enough times and you ruin him for life. Our good dog Carr has been beaten repeatedly for 4 years. I don't think there is a therapy that will fix this. The damage is done.
I would like to be proven wrong, but don't see how I could be.

Wish I knew Photoshop better, an avatar of Casserly and Capers walking the plank would be so appropriate at present.