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View Full Version : Time for the Carr lovers to defend their boy


yaboycm
10-23-2005, 08:11 PM
After watching this game, who still thinks Carr is the quarterback of the future for this team? He is terrible. Worst starting quarterback in the NFL. No question. The team has so much confidence in him they let him throw the ball 9 times. 9 times! This isn't Ferris Bueller's absences in one school year; this is the number of passes Daniella Carr threw today. I know there were more pass plays called, but he only threw 9 passes!

P-Lease don't bring the O-Line talk. Did you see Carr throw? Or try to. He can't. How did he miss Jabar on that 3rd down out route? Wide Open. Wiiiiiiiide Open.



Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.

rmartin65
10-23-2005, 08:13 PM
There were actually 18 pass plays, but the oline broke down so carr had to scramble 7 times, and he got sacked twice.

Bobo
10-23-2005, 08:24 PM
After watching this game, who still thinks Carr is the quarterback of the future for this team? He is terrible. Worst starting quarterback in the NFL. No question. The team has so much confidence in him they let him throw the ball 9 times. 9 times! This isn't Ferris Bueller's absences in one school year; this is the number of passes Daniella Carr threw today. I know there were more pass plays called, but he only threw 9 passes!

P-Lease don't bring the O-Line talk. Did you see Carr throw? Or try to. He can't. How did he miss Jabar on that 3rd down out route? Wide Open. Wiiiiiiiide Open.



Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.

Vince Young would be a disaster. He still doesn't know how to pass the ball. Even a cursory look at how Texas Tech picked him off twice early in yesterday's game show's how weak he is in that regard. And TT has one of the weakest defenses around. If he throws INTs against weak Ds like TT, then think how bad it will be for him in the pros. Young is a great college QB and that's about it. In the NFL, he will be a poor man's Mike Vick. As for Carr, even the best QBs miss wide open targets. I was there today and the best in the biz -- Manning -- didn't look good when he threw an INT and fumbled when he got sacked. He also missed a wide open receiver or two. The fact of the matter is this: Whenever Carr gets decent protection, you get decent production from him. Unfortunately, I think even the coaches have thrown in the towel regarding pass protection and run the ball to the team's own detriment.

Ibar_Harry
10-23-2005, 08:49 PM
Vince Young would be a disaster. He still doesn't know how to pass the ball. Even a cursory look at how Texas Tech picked him off twice early in yesterday's game show's how weak he is in that regard. And TT has one of the weakest defenses around. If he throws INTs against weak Ds like TT, then think how bad it will be for him in the pros. Young is a great college QB and that's about it. In the NFL, he will be a poor man's Mike Vick. As for Carr, even the best QBs miss wide open targets. I was there today and the best in the biz -- Manning -- didn't look good when he threw an INT and fumbled when he got sacked. He also missed a wide open receiver or two. The fact of the matter is this: Whenever Carr gets decent protection, you get decent production from him. Unfortunately, I think even the coaches have thrown in the towel regarding pass protection and run the ball to the team's own detriment.

A lot of what you say is true, but let's stop and think for a minute or two and see if there might not be a different conclusion. To begin with Carr was considered an accurate passer in college with laser like throws. Todays game was one emphasizing the run and trying to control the ball that way. They really didn't intend to throw the ball until they got behind. That would be a common strategy against a team like the Colts. You want to keep the ball out of Manning's hands as much as possible. That's why I also said you go for it on 4th and short when in your own territory and that's because your defense also can not hold anyone. That makes it a priority to control the ball at all costs. Passing in this situation just doesn't make much sense, because if the pass is complete not much time is run off the clock and if the pass is incomplete it kills the clock. They were trying to kill the clock and Carr I'm pretty certain was told not to pass unless he was 120% certain of completing the pass.

When you don't throw that often you are out of rythm and its hard to readjust for the distances. You need to throw the ball to maintain accuracy. You can't throw a ball here or there and continue to be sharp. Some of you will want to overlook this, but even Manning has to throw to stay sharp. Look at the number of passes Manning threw and he still threw an early interception. Remember, we are suppose to be throwing timing routes and the receiver can make the QB look bad if he doesn't run the route precisely and on time. If your rythm is off timing patterns are deadly.

However, I think there is another issue and I think Carr is playing injured and we don't know it. If you recall he's had shoulder problems from SACKS over the last couple of years. I think there is an element of that and he's not 100%, but he's still better than anyone else we have. Its just a gut feel based on watching him play. You can look physically fit, but you may not be 100%.

I will reiterate that all players on this ball club are at the mercy of this coaching staff and their game planning. I don't think you can judge anybody offensively or defensively based on the incompetence of this staff. The only judgements you can make is if one pulls off a good play despite everything. DROB and Mathis had some pretty good moments today. AGAIN I WOULD NOT JUDGE ANY PERSONNEL AS A RESULT OF WHAT THIS COACHING STAFF IS DOING. Just as players can make coaches look bad, coaches can make players look very bad. Washington was the pitts and now starting the 2nd year under Gibbs they are looking tremendous. Dallas is beginning to look very good under Parcells. Coaching makes a big time difference and to say otherwise is fullish. Don't blame Carr, don't blame the players, don't blame the fans, well blame Casserly and McNair some, but most all of the blame falls on the coaching staff.

utahmark
10-23-2005, 09:06 PM
After watching this game, who still thinks Carr is the quarterback of the future for this team? He is terrible. Worst starting quarterback in the NFL. No question. The team has so much confidence in him they let him throw the ball 9 times. 9 times! This isn't Ferris Bueller's absences in one school year; this is the number of passes Daniella Carr threw today. I know there were more pass plays called, but he only threw 9 passes!

P-Lease don't bring the O-Line talk. Did you see Carr throw? Or try to. He can't. How did he miss Jabar on that 3rd down out route? Wide Open. Wiiiiiiiide Open.



Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.


you say dd is one of the best running backs in the league yet you want us to draft reggie bush. carr played bad today as did a lot of other people. but if we get us another rb all will be better.

if you put another qb back there that isnt used to having to get rid of the ball in 2 sec he will get sacked 15 times a game. if you go back to the year banks played he got sacked at almost a 3 to 1 ratio compared to carr that year. its basically imposible to teach a qb to get rid of the ball in 2 sec. i dont know if carr is the answer but i do know he hasnt had a fair chance. and 1 underthrown ball to gaffney doesnt prove anything.

Marcus
10-23-2005, 09:14 PM
Don't blame Carr, don't blame the players, don't blame the fans, well blame Casserly and McNair some, but most all of the blame falls on the coaching staff.

Throwing the ball away on a 2 point conversion try, Ibar? He threw the fricken ball away on a 2 point conversion try. That tells me right there that the boy ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

If you didn't live in Fresno Ibar, you'd see Carr a lot more objectively.

HomeBred_Texan
10-23-2005, 09:16 PM
Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.
Oh please spare me old wise one. DD is a 3rd stringer on most teams, Vince Young will not be a QB in the NFL. Sorry, I am not a fan of DD at all. He is slow at best. Carr takes more hits than DD does. So please spare me with your pity cries, DD is the greastest and the best and the blah blah blah...

gg no re
10-23-2005, 09:17 PM
I thought we were supposed to reserve judgment on Carr until he gets a consistent 3 seconds in the pocket. Without max protect. And his receivers actually get open.

SESupergenius
10-23-2005, 09:21 PM
Carr had his struggles today, no doubt. We converted points off of turnovers however and the o-line was up to its shinanigans again. I'd would have loved to see Banks or Ragone in for all these games too so that you could see the light into what the real problems are on this team. Our #1 problem today was the defense.

I make no apology for David Carr today, just like I havn't for the last 6 times we've played them. The cover 2 is his or our coaches gameplans' achilles heal. We just can not find a way to beat it unless it's the happless Bears. Once again however he's seeing constant pressure and the box is collapsing. It's easy to fault the QB when the play goes wrong because he's got the ball, but look at it closer and you can just tell the players are not into it. They have no heart, much less a heartbeat. Carr threw a pass right to Mathis, drop right through his hands. Carr passed to Bradford on that INT, Bradford didn't even make a good cut to go after that ball. This team has quit labeled all over it.

LORK 88
10-23-2005, 09:46 PM
I dont care what yall say, until we get an O Line, NOBODY will be able to throw the ball in Houston's offense.

Marcus
10-23-2005, 09:48 PM
I thought we were supposed to reserve judgment on Carr until he gets a consistent 3 seconds in the pocket. Without max protect. And his receivers actually get open.

I used to give Carr every benefit of the doubt in previous seasons. But today's game brought out faults of David Carr that I don't think any amount of coaching, any type of strategy, or any improvement in the offensive line can correct.

There were plenty of times that he did have time to throw, if he would have just dropped back, got set, and thrown. Why can't he learn to do that? He knows that he doesn't have time to go through the progressions. He knows that he's supposed to drop back, set, and fire, and he won't do it.

And it drives . . . me . . . nuts!

WWJD
10-23-2005, 09:51 PM
I think if (and I'm not sure this would ever even happen) David were offered to other teams in the NFL there would be MANY teams interested.....with the right line, the right coaches he can be successful. Perhaps it won't be with the Texans. I'm not sure what their plans would be if the team continues to lose.

utahmark
10-23-2005, 09:54 PM
I used to give Carr every benefit of the doubt in previous seasons. But today's game brought out faults of David Carr that I don't think any amount of coaching, any type of strategy, or any improvement in the offensive line can correct.

There were plenty of times that he did have time to throw, if he would have just dropped back, got set, and thrown. Why can't he learn to do that? He knows that he doesn't have time to go through the progressions. He knows that he's supposed to drop back, set, and fire, and he won't do it.

And it drives . . . me . . . nuts!

fire to whom. it takes time for these guys to get open. im not sure anyone is open. you just want him to throw it to no one.

BuffSoldier
10-23-2005, 09:57 PM
After watching this game, who still thinks Carr is the quarterback of the future for this team? He is terrible. Worst starting quarterback in the NFL. No question. The team has so much confidence in him they let him throw the ball 9 times. 9 times! This isn't Ferris Bueller's absences in one school year; this is the number of passes Daniella Carr threw today. I know there were more pass plays called, but he only threw 9 passes!

P-Lease don't bring the O-Line talk. Did you see Carr throw? Or try to. He can't. How did he miss Jabar on that 3rd down out route? Wide Open. Wiiiiiiiide Open.



Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.


Seriously, have you ever played football, how long have you watched it. If you think that DC is the worst QB in the leauge you are sadly mistaken. I can name quite a few more than that. Like Frerotte, Boller, Harrington, Dilfer, Greise, Rattay, Brooks, McKown, Grossman. Thats just 10 to start it off. I bet you really believe that VY or even Leinart would do such a hell of a job behind this petiful o-line. Carr was sacked 4 times today and the sad thind id thats a good game for our o-line. How many QB's do you know that have gotten sacked over 30 times this season and have played great. Oh and I guess you just forgot that AJ, Carrs #1 option has been injured the pass 3 weeks. Maybe we should put you out there and let you get murdered for 4 years and see how much confidence you have in your offensive line coach being your OC. Tell me one game that Carr has had good protection and has stunk it up, every time he gets time, he at least plays decently.

Look at weeks 2 through 7 of last year when the o-line seemed to be pass protecting pretty well, and teams werent doubling AJ.He had a passer rating of over 100 4 times and went 90 once, so dont tell me he cant produce. 2004 Stats (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268/gamelogs/2004) I bet you were all over him then.

BuffSoldier
10-23-2005, 09:58 PM
We need an offensive line. Why do you want to draft Reggie Bush????

Because they dont understand football well enough to see that Bush cant produce any better than anyone else behind a porouse o-line.

Honoring Earl 34
10-23-2005, 10:03 PM
:texflag: I think Carr plays into the other teams hands . They know he's shellshocked and is looking to bail . David will have a 3rd and 10 and audible into a run .

I think its only fair to Ragone that he get a shot . I would hate to root for Carr to pull a hamstring so this could happen .

Hervoyel
10-23-2005, 10:04 PM
It seems like I see this thread every single week. Carr made some really stupid decisions today and that's just plain true. Carr also tried very hard to move the team and played hard. I can respect that without thinking that it's enough to get it done.

Carr haters sound just as ignorant as Carr apologists. I'm tired of reading both sides of the same old argument. Next up I guess is going to be the "Davis is 3rd string at best" crowd versus the "Davis is better than Edge, he's just on a lousy team!" crowd.

The truth is somewhere in between guys.

Marcus
10-23-2005, 10:16 PM
fire to whom. it takes time for these guys to get open. im not sure anyone is open. you just want him to throw it to no one.

He can do like all the QBs in the league can do, throw it to an area where either the receiver gets it, or nobody does. He seems to think it would kill him to throw an incomplete pass.

Naa . . . he'd rather hold onto it and get sacked.

BuffSoldier
10-23-2005, 10:16 PM
All you Carr haters cant any of you see david is the greatest Qb of all time he proved it playing for the power house of fresno state he was so good he led them to and undefeated season:lol:. so David Carr is the man in houston lets get him a line than we can complain and why were at it lets get him a brain oh and why were at it lets get him some Cajones so he'll quit running to the sideline like a sissy lets get him a new shoulder so he can throw the ball correctly.

Okay, so you dont want him to run, so you want him to stand there and get killed by 300 pound d-linemen, so you want him to be stupid. I see you have experience at this.

BuffSoldier
10-23-2005, 10:20 PM
He can do like all the QBs in the league can do, throw it to an area where either the receiver gets it, or nobody does. He seems to think it would kill him to throw an incomplete pass.

Naa . . . he'd rather hold onto it and get sacked.

You cant do that every play. So you want him to throw it up for an incompletion every play. If Gaff is covered and Badford is covered, and we have a TE and RB in to block, just throw it away. And in zone coverage just throw it away when no one gets open. Thats a punk route to me, I would rather a QB who make mistakes trying to make a play rather than punking out and throwing it away every other play.

Hervoyel
10-23-2005, 10:21 PM
Fact of the matter Herv is I am not an apologist. You just can't judge the guy until he has an offensive line. If it were even "AVERAGE", I could make some decision. But I just can't do that when he doesn't have ANY time to throw on over 75% of his passes.

I know he has the tools to be an above average NFL QB. Has he gotten there yet? No. He did show some of what he could be in the first half of 2004. The line fell apart the latter half of the year and here we are.

All I am saying is we need to focus on the true problem: the offensive line.

I don't consider that being a Carr apologist TGO, I think that it's perfectly reasonable to say he's not in a position where he has a chance to succeed. I don't know how you can say that you know he has the tools to be an above average NFL QB because even if he has every single one of the physical gifts necessary he still has yet to show the mental component needed to do that.

All I want for Christmas is an NFL quality offensive line. Once that's in place then all questions will be answered.

Bull Pen 1
10-23-2005, 10:34 PM
I say put in one of our other QB's in and see if it's Carr or the line. Sure you say Carr doesn't have this or that but the bottom line is we're 0 - 6. It sure can't hurt to throw in Banks or Ragone and see what happens, what't the worst 0 - 7.

Yes, Carr has been hit lot and is giddish, so get him out of there.

I'll put it in writing in in caps.

BENCH CARR, YES I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

BENCH CARR

BENCH CARR

Total passing yards in the game 6 yards!!!!

BENCH CARR

Total yards in the second half, - 4 yards

BENCH CARR

txhoosier
10-23-2005, 11:29 PM
The problems IMO, start on the sidelines. They continue with the fact that neither the coaches nor the QB have ANY faith in the O line being able to provide enough protection for Carr to be able to complete a pass downfield. Add all that with AJ not playing, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Carr has been in this league long enough, and practiced every play in the playbook long enough to just audible at the line, or plain override the play that is called. They run the same plays over and over again, and the fans are tired of it...opposing defenses are feasting on it, and the players are just not playing with any emotion. Carr is supposed to be the leader of this team, and the only time he shows any emotion is when things are going well. He really gave the "what-fer" to the Colts DB who got burned for the 2nd touchdown today...even went out of his way to talk smack.

OT - The GD White Sox just hit a solo HR to win the game. Posednik, who hit 0 HR's in the regular season, just hit one to win game 2.

Here's to some texas home cooking for the 'stros.

powda
10-23-2005, 11:58 PM
i've got a shocker for you guys...

carr didnt have a bad game today.

i've watched the game twice now devoid of all emotion. and my tongue is not in cheek. carr was ok today. tag me as an appologist if you want...i'll have the play notes in a post probably tuesday.

Vinny
10-24-2005, 12:08 AM
geez, I thought he was awful. He killed early drives missing badly on easy passes and he is just awful on anything that isn't a hitch, slant, or pass to the flat and ended up with a net of 6 passing yards for the game. I especially like how he threw it away trying to get the 2 point conversion. Nice decision

Nighthawk
10-26-2005, 04:15 AM
Okay, so you dont want him to run, so you want him to stand there and get killed by 300 pound d-linemen

I've been looking at some of David's sacks, and I think we need to remember that most of the time a sack is not some horrible crushing hit of a kind worse than any other tackle. OK, sometimes a full speed blindside hit, or straight up the middle hit is pretty bad, but I'd venture to say that 80% maybe of sacks are just weanie little arm tackles, not somebody "getting killed by a 300 pound lineman." We tend to glamorize the position and the sack, and make it sound like a sack is a cruel and catastrophic hit on a defenseless QB, when in fact that is the exception rather than the rule. I bring it up here to say something about overstating the psychological trauma David has endured as a result of his many sacks. Also, shouldn't we subtract out all the sacks that he caused himself? Cause that's just him getting tackled in his natural territory (behind the line).

txhoosier
10-26-2005, 09:33 AM
geez, I thought he was awful. He killed early drives missing badly on easy passes and he is just awful on anything that isn't a hitch, slant, or pass to the flat and ended up with a net of 6 passing yards for the game. I especially like how he threw it away trying to get the 2 point conversion. Nice decision
yeah...but watching it, they don't even call plays downfield. Why is that? I think it's a lack of faith in the O-line to protect him long enough for him to make the throw.

I'm not blaming the entire problem on the O-line, but it's a glaring issue that the Texans must address, and soon. One thing about Manning is that his O-line, from the starters to the practice squad all are prepared for the game. They rarely make mistakes, and part of that is they are playing for Manning. Part of it is talent...part of it is Carr getting them to protect him like he needs to be protected...and heck, I'll even put part of it on Steve McKinney...he knows what it's like to work that Colts O-line, and should be passing that knowledge on to Carr.

Vinny
10-26-2005, 09:49 AM
yeah...but watching it, they don't even call plays downfield. Why is that? Just because Carr doesn't pull the trigger doesn't mean plays aren't called. I also think they truncate the calls to what he does well...which is very limited. Every game he struggles to complete routine passes if they aren't hitches, slants, or passes to the flat. He will complete a couple a game...but miss wildly out of bounds on the sideline passes and really hardly ever take a shot in the deep middle of the field....a big reason he can't beat a cover2 defense (the middle of the field is where you have to beat that d).

ArlingtonTexan
10-26-2005, 09:54 AM
Just because Carr doesn't pull the trigger doesn't mean plays aren't called. I also think they truncate the calls to what he does well...which is very limited. Every game he struggles to complete routine passes if they aren't hitches, slants, or passes to the flat. He will complete a couple a game...but miss wildly out of bounds on the sideline passes and really hardly ever take a shot in the deep middle of the field....a big reason he can't beat a cover2 defense (the middle of the field is where you have to beat that d).

On NFL notebook, Butch Davis (I know) said prior to Sunday 18 of 30 sacks by Carr came on passes designed to go downfield.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 10:18 AM
:texflag: I think Carr's not good at anticipating . If its a route where he can plant and throw a BB ... then he's pretty good . He could not replace Fouts in the Air Coryell (70's Chargers )offense because it was timing and throwing to a spot with touch ..

cuppacoffee
10-26-2005, 10:21 AM
In his column this morning he gives his opinion on Carr.
This guy has watched a lot of football and probably has his finger on the pulse of the Texans more than any of us.
He more or less blames Cass and Capers for Carrs progress or lack of.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3416566

cac: :coffee:

ps admins.... link feature does not allow for naming of link, just adds link address to message. not the same as before.

Vinny
10-26-2005, 10:27 AM
On NFL notebook, Butch Davis (I know) said prior to Sunday 18 of 30 sacks by Carr came on passes designed to go downfield.Well, that's where most any QB's sacks come from isn't it? Hitches, passes to the flat, 3 step drop slants, and waggle/bootlegs are plays that factor out the pass rush. I know our line is bad but I also think we have a bad QB that compounds this mess.

Vinny
10-26-2005, 10:29 AM
ps admins.... link feature does not allow for naming of link, just adds link address to message. not the same as before.I'll check into this today sometime. thanks.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 10:38 AM
:brickwall What McClain's comments add up to is... bad coaching + bad GM = terrible team .

It seems the Astro's took some attention from the Texans but thats temporary . After the series this is going to get ugly .

txhoosier
10-26-2005, 10:38 AM
In his column this morning he gives his opinion on Carr.
This guy has watched a lot of football and probably has his finger on the pulse of the Texans more than any of us.
He more or less blames Cass and Capers for Carrs progress or lack of.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3416566

cac: :coffee:

ps admins.... link feature does not allow for naming of link, just adds link address to message. not the same as before.
hence my comment a yesterday that I think the problem starts on the sidelines.

Once Carr realizes that his coaches are terrible, he might just be able to turn it around.

ArlingtonTexan
10-26-2005, 10:48 AM
Well, that's where most any QB's sacks come from isn't it? Hitches, passes to the flat, 3 step drop slants, and waggle/bootlegs are plays that factor out the pass rush. I know our line is bad but I also think we have a bad QB that compounds this mess.

Yeah, I was shaky that it mattered. I don't remember if he defined down field as more than 15 or 20 yards. Davis does not come off as too bright or insightful.

Shame on you for wanting the "face of franchise" to be a part of the solution.

Vinny
10-26-2005, 10:51 AM
Shame on you for wanting the "face of franchise" to be a part of the solution.We wouldn't want our Corporate sponsors to have their golden boy on the bench now would we? We would lose too much of a PR effect or Corporate cash showcasing a back up QB on all that off field "face of the franchise" stuff.
:fishing:

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 10:55 AM
:texflag: Big tex If you watch the Texans games ... Carr will audible into a run on a passing situation alot . Why is it thats all the Coaches give him have you thought of that ?

I think right now we should put DD at a HB , Morency at a HB , Norris at FB and run the wishbone . Carr is the QB .

Carr can take a hit yeppeee ... all QBs that hang in the pocket get smashed even if they don't get sacked ... thats why they have bad knees guys diving into them . Tough for a QB is leading and making something happen when you know getting creamed ... bailing and running is being able to take a hit tough .

5genTexan
10-26-2005, 11:03 AM
Yep, I'm hearin' ya. That 3rd down pass was a crusher. Our section actually started chanting, "Tony, Tony, Tony!!" Heck, later on, we were chanting, "Put in Dave, put in Dave!!" - I'm not kidding either, we had about 15 people being very loud.

Bigdog
10-26-2005, 11:09 AM
I keep seeing those comercials you know the ones where Carr says WE LIVE FOR SUNDAY and i have to ask myself HUH? anyone agree?

infantrycak
10-26-2005, 11:14 AM
From the article linked above:

The truth is that it's absolutely preposterous for the top pick in the draft, a franchise quarterback, to be sacked more than any quarterback in the league in three of his first four seasons. It's inexcusable for Casserly and Capers to allow that to happen.

Though Carr isn't playing nearly as well as he did last season when he took his biggest steps forward, longtime scouts, personnel experts and defensive coaches say this about him: Until he gets the kind of protection he should have been provided when the Texans selected him, we'll never know how good or bad he can be.

They say it's grossly unfair to give up on Carr because he hasn't been given a legitimate chance to succeed.

I fall in the I don't think we have seen the best of Carr, but he hasn't shown us any signs of greatness, no man's land of the Carr debate. IMO the above is a very even handed look at what is going on and on the bold portion above alone I would say Casserly and Capers should both be run out of town for wasting all the money on Carr's contract. As badly as anyone thinks Carr plays, I cannot fathom how you can argue Carr's development has been anything but botched. Casserly and Capers jointly deserve to burn for that and frankly by not ever questioning Carr or benching him have essentially stated it isn't Carr's fault--i.e. it is their fault.

mean mark8
10-26-2005, 11:14 AM
:texflag: I think Carr plays into the other teams hands . They know he's shellshocked and is looking to bail . David will have a 3rd and 10 and audible into a run .

I believe in another thread on this message board, there was a discussion about an interview Carr had after the Seahawk game where he was asked about audibles. In that interview, Carr said that he is only allowed to audible a run call switching sides to which the run was intended. To me, that sounds pretty ridiculous and it's even worse to publicly state but that's what the thread said. It also appears to be the truth.:brickwall

WildBlackBear32
10-26-2005, 11:24 AM
Dont bring up the O-Line why not has something changed? Are they better now that we can't bring it up?

Jabbar ran to far, he should have stopped. Corey Bradford has to also cut his route short if he sees the safetey sitting and waiting for the ball.

What does David Carr have to work with lets see-

Carr- Domanick Davis, a line that gives up sacks left and right. Andre the "hurt" one. No TE. A coach you guys want fired along with the coaching staff. A sorry Defense.
Harrington- Kevin Jones, Charles Rogers(hurt mentaly) Mike williams, Roy Williams, Marcus Pollard a good Oline, a good D that cause preasure for Turnovers.
Big Ben- Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis (Hall of Famer), Great O-Line pass and run, Heath Miller, A great D.
Peyton- Edge, Marvin, Reggie, Stokley, Dallas Clark, Freeney and their D, Tony Dungy.

Nothing has or is going to change this year so do not be shocked and surprised every week. David Carr has nothing even compared to the other QBs so you can not judge him untill he does.

It makes no sense to me that some of you dont understand this.

1 freaking pass, how about the 5 other times were he used his feet to get a 1st down, taking shots and diving head first for his team. Anybody see that.

He also through the ball 9 times, 9.


The Detroit Line is almost as bad as ours. Though Harrington is FAR worse than Carr(and Kyle Orton...), some people just dont want to swallow it.

Vinny
10-26-2005, 11:36 AM
The Rams allowed more sacks last year than the Texans.

wags
10-26-2005, 11:43 AM
The Rams allowed more sacks last year than the Texans.

Yep, and they only had to throw the ball 112 times more to do so.

infantrycak
10-26-2005, 12:09 PM
This is the perfect example of how you can make stats say anything you want them to. If you just say the Rams allowed more sacks than the Texans and you think: Well there, Vinny has a credible point. UNTIL wags chimes in with the "rest of the story" communicating the fact the Rams attempted 112 more pass attempts than the Texans.

Well and for the rest of the rest of the story, Atlanta also gave up 50 sacks last year, one more than the Texans, and they did so on 76 less attempts than the Texans.

The attempts alone do not truly tell the picture though either and Carr, Vick and Bulger are good examples. Vick had 120 rushing attempts--probably 75% of those were called passing plays that broke down. Carr had 73 rushing attempts--probably 90% of those were called passing plays that broke down. Bulger had 19 rushing attempts--probably 50% were called rushing plays for 1st downs or TD's (he had 3 TD's). Putting those numbers together gives a better indication of how often the QB feels pressure (notice I did not say is pressured, but feels pressured and acts on it--would have to look at the tape to see if the pressure was real).

Vick felt pressure on about 26% of passing plays.
Carr 19.5%
Bulger 9.4%

Maybe the pressure really isn't there on Bulger, maybe he doesn't feel it as much--maybe like so many things it is both.

TEXANRED
10-26-2005, 12:10 PM
What's a Carr hating post without a Carr defending post by Texanred?

This team is terrible. Period. Its not all David, its not all the o-line, or defense, the tightends who cant block, the running backs who cant block, recievers who drop passes and cant get open.

David is a good QB, he does have the physical attributes. He is (was) putting up John Elway type numbers and Elway won two superbowls and is a hall of famer. But he had a good team around him.

He is compared to Farve and [I]is[I] a Farve style QB. Throws hard, throws the ball up for grabs, and throws lots of INT'S. Diffrence is he had a good team around him to win a superbowl. He is going to the hall of fame.

Plummer is a good QB but looked bad in Arizona. Now he is with Denver and go's to the playoffs.

Lets see what happens when new managment rolls into town.

SESupergenius
10-26-2005, 12:42 PM
Carr was doing fine last year the first half of the season, he made his throws, he was one of the least concerns on this team. Then for "some reason" he's the worst thing since Tony Banks. Carr still makes his throws, he nailed a comeback on the left side across his body, which if anyone has every played QB is a tough throw to make. He didn't have a great day, but when you throw the ball like 9 times, no QB is going to get into any kind of rythm with that. His audibles are atrocious, he isn't allows to audible out of a run. That's a killer for the scheme. If I was a MLB and I see Carr audible, I automatically know its a run because he isn't allowed to do otherwise. Nice.

As the Colt fans pointed out, our offense is just plain vanilla, we've lost any element of surprise and can not adjust to any adverse circumstances. Carr is the least of our problems, he is only 1 individual on this team that dictates what he can and can not do. His abilities are being wasted.

Ibar_Harry
10-26-2005, 01:06 PM
Carr was doing fine last year the first half of the season, he made his throws, he was one of the least concerns on this team. Then for "some reason" he's the worst thing since Tony Banks. Carr still makes his throws, he nailed a comeback on the left side across his body, which if anyone has every played QB is a tough throw to make. He didn't have a great day, but when you throw the ball like 9 times, no QB is going to get into any kind of rythm with that. His audibles are atrocious, he isn't allows to audible out of a run. That's a killer for the scheme. If I was a MLB and I see Carr audible, I automatically know its a run because he isn't allowed to do otherwise. Nice.

As the Colt fans pointed out, our offense is just plain vanilla, we've lost any element of surprise and can not adjust to any adverse circumstances. Carr is the least of our problems, he is only 1 individual on this team that dictates what he can and can not do. His abilities are being wasted.

Vinny has never liked Carr and he would say people like us our in love with Carr and I disagree with that, because like you I still say its the whole coaching staff that is a problem and nothing else. Replace the coaching staff with people who are competent and fix the O-line problems and then you can judge the QB. The same goes for the defense. I have been very consistant in saying you can not evaluate any players on this ball club, because of the ineptness of the coaching staff. A lot of people are looking bad, because of how they are instructed to play. That might even be true of a player like PBUC. Its a mess and its all about coaching and nothing else. A passer has to throw the ball to get in rythm. Just like a pitcher has to warm up before he starts. There is no difference. I might add that timing patterns, which we are suppose to be using, require very precise coordination between the receiver and the QB. Often the QB is releasing the ball before the receiver makes his cut. If they are not on the same page its a disaster. Receivers also need to know how to run patterns and get separation from the defenders, and if they don't, they simply don't get open. COACHING IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE TEXANS AND NOTHING ELSE. Quite blaming everyone else other than those who are responsible for the coaches and that includes McNair.

SESupergenius
10-26-2005, 01:26 PM
Carr without a doubt has a few glitches in his game, But still nowhere near what people want to put on him. He at least is trying to make plays, he lays it all out, just look at the run where he got popped in the head when was sliding. (how is it he never gets these helmet to helmet calls?). Sure he's missfired a couple of throws, but people put too much imphasis into those misses. You add back the plays where he has to run to pick up the first down and that should negate a couple of errand throws. Our schemes are terrible right now and way too predictable. With only 4 guys rushing the passer and 6-7 of our guys blocking, we won't win any games with this sort of passing attack. There is a reason we don't go 4 wide outs anymore, we need more to stay in and block. That's not on David Carr.

Kaiser Toro
10-26-2005, 01:31 PM
Carr was doing fine last year the first half of the season, he made his throws, he was one of the least concerns on this team. Then for "some reason" he's the worst thing since Tony Banks. Carr still makes his throws, he nailed a comeback on the left side across his body, which if anyone has every played QB is a tough throw to make. He didn't have a great day, but when you throw the ball like 9 times, no QB is going to get into any kind of rythm with that. His audibles are atrocious, he isn't allows to audible out of a run. That's a killer for the scheme. If I was a MLB and I see Carr audible, I automatically know its a run because he isn't allowed to do otherwise. Nice.

As the Colt fans pointed out, our offense is just plain vanilla, we've lost any element of surprise and can not adjust to any adverse circumstances. Carr is the least of our problems, he is only 1 individual on this team that dictates what he can and can not do. His abilities are being wasted.

Kind of the chicken egg syndorme, what came first, the coaches lack of confidence in Carr or Carr's bad decision making?

I read your first sentence and I cannot help to think of how many times we see glimpses of something good from a drive, a quarter or a half for the offense and then resort back to the same old same old. Will this offense ever be able to put out one sound game together with David Carr at the helm? I hope so, but for less dollars in the future.

Ibar_Harry
10-26-2005, 01:42 PM
Kind of the chicken egg syndorme, what came first, the coaches lack of confidence in Carr or Carr's bad decision making?

I read your first sentence and I cannot help to think of how many times we see glimpses of something good from a drive, a quarter or a half for the offense and then resort back to the same old same old. Will this offense ever be able to put out one sound game together with David Carr at the helm? I hope so, but for less dollars in the future.

Didn't we beat Dallas the 1st game we played. I'm sorry, but all plays are called by the coaching staff on this ball club and Carr only audibles into a standard play call he has been given. Carr basically makes very few decisions during the course of the game.

9 Passes in the last game was the will of the coaching staff. I firmly believe he was told not to pass the ball unless he was 120 % certain of a completion. That was the game plan, because they wanted to keep the ball out of Payton's hands. The problem was the defense never allowed us to get a lead. We actually came back against them and part of that was runs by Carr which resulted in 1st downs particularly when we got near the red zone. In any event, Carr is simply doing what the coaching staff is requested and if he didn't he wouldn't be playing.

NOBODY MAKES DECISIONS ON THIS BALL CLUB EXCEPT FOR THE COACHES AND I THINK A LOT OF US WOULD EVEN QUESTION THAT...........

infantrycak
10-26-2005, 02:15 PM
Carr basically makes very few decisions during the course of the game.

This is just a silly statement. A QB makes all sorts of decisions in a game even with a limited play book. Analysis at the line and ability to change the formation or play, reads while on passing plays, decisions on how to avoid the rush, decisions on whether to run, throw the ball away, etc. Carr just like every other QB makes hundreds of decisions a game.

9 Passes in the last game was the will of the coaching staff.

Folks keep saying 9 passes and it really isn't accurate. Carr got off 9 attempts--he mis-threw 2 and had 1 dropped for 6 completions. Yes the two mis-throws were horrendous, on the other hand without the equally horrendous drop he would have completed 77% of his attempts. Those were not all the passing plays called however. He was also sacked 5 times on called passing plays and ran 5 times on called passing plays--that is perceived or real pressure on 53% of the called passing plays by the way folks. There were therefore 19 called passing plays vs. 28 rushing plays.

The problem was the defense never allowed us to get a lead.

Yeah, I remember the D punting on the 1st possession of the game instead of taking a lead, and it was the D punting instead of coming back on the 2nd possession to tie the game and it was the D at fault for throwing an INT on the 1st play of the 3rd possession after sacking and taking the ball from Peyton. Shame on the D. Geez, Ibar try being at least a little accurate.

disaacks3
10-26-2005, 02:24 PM
Seriously, you guys crack me up. Half of you bash Carr and say he sucks and should get rid of the ball sooner. The other half say its all the O-Line's fault. You [edited] realize that DD has to run through the very same line that you all bash and he still puts up insane numbers.
Seriously, do you people not know what a gem you have in DD????

Reality check time....

You DO realize that run blocking and Pass Blocking are two COMPLETELY different animals.......don't you? :confused:

infantrycak
10-26-2005, 02:35 PM
Just curious, what did the D do after the 1st half? Remember infantrycak, there are 2 halves to the game, not just one. And when the D did keep us in the game, we were tied going into the half. Huh, go figure.

Read what I was responding to. The idea that the D prevented the O from getting a lead in the 1st half is absurd. The Texans O actually had the ball 17:29 in the 1st half compared to Indy's 12:31. The O had their chance at a lead. Yes the D sucked in the 2nd half, but then again, so did the O with a record of punt, punt & fumble.

nunusguy
10-26-2005, 02:53 PM
"The truth is that it's absolutely preposterous for the top pick in the draft, a franchise quarterback, to be sacked more than any quarterback in the league in three of his first four seasons. It's inexcusable for Casserly and Capers to allow that to happen."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3416566

Texas
10-26-2005, 02:57 PM
I'd have to agree. Everytime I notice carr run out of the pocket he 13% of the time completes the pass. He usually runs out of bounds or throws it way out of the receivers range. Its pretty ridicilous. He needs to be able to throw on the run because our line cant hold a pocket , but yet he seems he hasnt learned that yet.

Kaiser Toro
10-26-2005, 03:00 PM
"The truth is that it's absolutely preposterous for the top pick in the draft, a franchise quarterback, to be sacked more than any quarterback in the league in three of his first four seasons. It's inexcusable for Casserly and Capers to allow that to happen."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3416566

It is absolutely preposterous for anyone to lead in that category first of all.

I am not from Houston so I do not have a feel for Mr. McClain's past work, but I cannot stand his style or delivery. I do feel that his pieces are no better than the stuff we see on this board.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 03:29 PM
:texflag: The benching of Carr is a trouble shooting action . What are going to do... lose ?
Right now he's a bad QB behind an awful OL with bad WRs and a decent RB .

billtxus
10-26-2005, 03:38 PM
Carr obviously isnt a great QB. However replacing him won't solve the problem, because he isn't the main problem. The problem first and foremost are the coaches, and maybe also the GM.

I say the coaches because they have offense personnel that won seven games last year. Unfortunately they haven't adapted the offense, as the defenses have shut down the passing game. This was happening towards the end of last season. Compare Andre's passing yardage in the first half of the season to the second, its much smaller in the second. The league has now succeeded in shutting down the passing game completely, and it won't come back until the coaches make some adjustments. Not clear they have the personnel to make too many adjustments, but they should be doing better than they are.

I also say the coaches because the game Sunday was tied at halftime. As usual the opponent made more effective changes at halftime than the Texans. So the Texans got blown out the second half, with virtually zero yards of offense.

The GM is at fault for letting Glenn go, and trading two draft picks to get Buchanon. That was a huge loss of draft picks, and on net a much worse corner. Glenn is now good enough to start for the Big Tuna, but not for Capers? Other similar personnel gaffs have weakend what was a pretty good defense. That defense went 13 quarters last year without giving up a touchdown, now they give up yards and TD's at an alarming rate.

yaboycm
10-26-2005, 03:46 PM
We need an offensive line. Why do you want to draft Reggie Bush????

Reggie Bush can line up at receiver as well as running back. A two back set with Bush and Davis. You can't double Andre all day anymore. Linebackers on Bush and Davis = Scary. Especially if we actually sign a tight end and no 2receiver.

Why must you people exaggerate the offensive line problem so much. It's not like he drops back and immediately has people in his face. A few plays a game yes, but not all the time. If the line is so bad how did DD have close to 100 yards in the first half. If you had a quarterback who could get the ball to his receivers DD would be that much better. He is in between Westbrook and Tomlinson. A versitle back who can run the ball very well and catch too.

Vince Young is a competitor and hard worker. He has made a ton of progress since his first year at Texas. There's no reason to believe he won't make more progress after. Two years ago they pulled him against Tech. Saturday he beat the hell out of them. I know he is not the best passer, but he is making a lot of progress.

And he can run the ball!!! There is so much to defend when he is on the field. You have to spy him or he will just take off on you.

The NFL is becoming a speed league more and more. Why not have a quarterback with speed too.

SESupergenius
10-26-2005, 03:52 PM
I am still just not convinced it's Carr. I have yet to see consistant pass protection to allow him time to get comfortable. I look at a lot of games lately around the NFL and see a nice reverse "C" formation in the olines when they hike the ball. I just don't see that at all here, maybe a couple of plays but for the most part we are letting the other team well into the backfield. I mean all of the sudden Carr is bad QB and yet whenever another teams fans come on here they say the exact same thing, get an oline. I've been trying to see if Carr is the problem and I end up at the same conclusion, the protection breakdown is the root of our offensive troubles. We are gearing our playcalling towards helping out the oline.

I just want to know, where was this post the last 4 games? Were all the games Carrs fault. NOT! He had a couple of bad throws this game and all of the sudden people are forgetting the previous 4 games where the oline took center stage.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 04:00 PM
:texflag: Only one way to see if its Carr ... and that is some pine time . Oh heck who's gonna be on commercials ( HEB , BMW )... hey he can do an add for Mattress Mack and his Lazy Boy recliners .

SESupergenius
10-26-2005, 04:17 PM
I think I've said to myself once in 4 years now "Carr has all kinds of time back there". Suffice it to say, I say that about almost every QB we face.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2005, 04:56 PM
:texflag: Nobody knows what would happen if Carr does'nt play ... hey they might score 17 .
Why are people worried about Carr sitting is his ego that fragile ? If I was100% behind Carr I'd welcome a change for two reasons 1. It would show he's not the problem 2. He can't get killed from the bench .

rohol
10-26-2005, 04:57 PM
Hey, I have sort of followed football since the Texans sprang up to play. Granted it was never that close, but I watched a game now and then. This year, however, I've been following pretty closely. I've only been able to watch one game, but I live in Iowa so the only game that has aired in my area was the Sunday night game against the Seahawks. I don't know a lot yet, but here's my opinion anyway.

As soon as that game started I could see in Carr's body language that he just wanted to get rid of the ball quickly. Whether it was a pass or run, it was the same. But I also saw that when he did get the chance to do something, he usually did it. When he had time to throw he would get it to the receiver, or when he had time to see noone was open he'd run and get some yards.

I think that if he had more time he'd be a lot better quarterback.

Kaiser Toro
10-26-2005, 05:07 PM
Ragone is great...against back-up D. Banks is all-right...against back-up D. That's why they don't start. So, in the words of Carlos Mencia, "Dee dee-dee."

I think most would agree that Ragone and Banks are not great, but there comes a point in time where you have to begin to think about our future. I think that point is if we are 0-8 in a couple of weeks.

We or other teams do not know his value if he sits on the sidelines.

Kaiser Toro
10-26-2005, 05:14 PM
So what all you are saying is that Carr is the problem?

He has to be since that is the only guy we talk about right?

Most of you would make a great QB coach.:sarcasm:

Never have, never will. We have made changes on the line and with the OC. We have our star WR out and our running game is not the worse in the league. If we go 0-8 and I think that we need to look at shuffling the QB spot. We do not want our franchise getting hurt, do we? :rolleyes:

utahmark
10-26-2005, 05:35 PM
Well and for the rest of the rest of the story, Atlanta also gave up 50 sacks last year, one more than the Texans, and they did so on 76 less attempts than the Texans.

The attempts alone do not truly tell the picture though either and Carr, Vick and Bulger are good examples. Vick had 120 rushing attempts--probably 75% of those were called passing plays that broke down. Carr had 73 rushing attempts--probably 90% of those were called passing plays that broke down. Bulger had 19 rushing attempts--probably 50% were called rushing plays for 1st downs or TD's (he had 3 TD's). Putting those numbers together gives a better indication of how often the QB feels pressure (notice I did not say is pressured, but feels pressured and acts on it--would have to look at the tape to see if the pressure was real).

Vick felt pressure on about 26% of passing plays.
Carr 19.5%
Bulger 9.4%

Maybe the pressure really isn't there on Bulger, maybe he doesn't feel it as much--maybe like so many things it is both.

how bout the end of the story. that was last year and carr had comparible numbers to vick. this year the sack comparison is not comparible. add to the fact that we are the most conservative team in the league and our main goal is to avoid sacks and you might come to an understanding of why carr is playing so poorly. because his offensive line is maybe the worst ever.

nunusguy
10-26-2005, 06:02 PM
Were all the games Carrs fault. NOT! He had a couple of bad throws this game and all of the sudden people are forgetting the previous 4 games where the oline took center stage.
Carr played well last week in Seattle, especially given the caliber of pass protection he was getting (which was lacking to say the least). and I appreciated the remarks from Theisman to that effect. Lot of people think Theisman is kinda goofy. Well I do to, but he is a former NFL QB who had some success in this league and probably knows something about QB play.
But on the other hand, this past Sunday DC didn't play too well. I was at the game and moaned when he thru that one ball in the dirt and at the feet of Gaffney. Then the pass in the EZ on the attempt at a 2 point conversion which was was uncatchable - that was certainly disappointing.

TEXANRED
10-26-2005, 06:09 PM
Reggie Bush can line up at receiver as well as running back. A two back set with Bush and Davis. You can't double Andre all day anymore. Linebackers on Bush and Davis = Scary. Especially if we actually sign a tight end and no 2receiver.

Why must you people exaggerate the offensive line problem so much. It's not like he drops back and immediately has people in his face. A few plays a game yes, but not all the time. If the line is so bad how did DD have close to 100 yards in the first half. If you had a quarterback who could get the ball to his receivers DD would be that much better. He is in between Westbrook and Tomlinson. A versitle back who can run the ball very well and catch too.

Vince Young is a competitor and hard worker. He has made a ton of progress since his first year at Texas. There's no reason to believe he won't make more progress after. Two years ago they pulled him against Tech. Saturday he beat the hell out of them. I know he is not the best passer, but he is making a lot of progress.

And he can run the ball!!! There is so much to defend when he is on the field. You have to spy him or he will just take off on you.

The NFL is becoming a speed league more and more. Why not have a quarterback with speed too.

Lets put down the Bush/Young banner. We are drafting a left tackle. Period. If we dont I vote to find Cass's house and egg it. Of cousre I feel he should be fired anyway, you dont give up two first rounds for Orlando Pace, but you give up 2,3,swap 4, for babbin. Then if that wasent good enough we traded our 2,3 for PBuc. I at first defended Cass that two first rounds was to much but then we drafted a non-starting undersized DT in the first. Just for us to draft an unproven LT this year. wow. Besides, McNeil is a better QB.

BuffSoldier
10-26-2005, 11:14 PM
Why must you people exaggerate the offensive line problem so much. It's not like he drops back and immediately has people in his face. A few plays a game yes, but not all the time. If the line is so bad how did DD have close to 100 yards in the first half.

What are you talking about, no seriously, do you know what you are saying. So you are telling me that because a team can run block well, they can also pass protect. That is one of the worst comments ever. Do you know that there is a difference between run and pass blocking? Dont you know that pass protecting takes quick feet and athleticism to stay with quick footed D-linemen with pass rush moves? Anyone who is big and strong can bully someone up front and push them out of the way to open up holes, if you cant do that, you shouldnt be in the NFL. But it takes actual skill to pass protect.

thegr8fan
10-27-2005, 12:16 AM
first let me start with this. I have just read through 6 pages of this thread and NOT ONCE has any Carr supporter listed ANYTHING that he did well. Instead of keeping the focus on Carr, it is an endless string of cyclic threads about all of the following:

1: the Offensive Line is definitely sub par for the NFL.

2: The WR's are not all premium WR's and perhaps they need some route running skill enhancement.

3: The D can't stop the other team which results in obvious passing situations at the end of the game and we all know how that works out, with our current O-line.

Now that we have got all the 'smoke and mirrors' out of the way for the 'Carr is the greatest QB ever'fanatics, answer me this.

Tell me exactly, and specifically what Carr does himself that makes you think he is going to be a great QB, or even a very good QB. I am talking about Carr himself, not anyone, or any other component of our current team.

what is it that Carr does well? What is it that all you Carr supporters are seeing that I am not, and makes you think he still is going to be an above average QB in the NFL.

I can list several things that, IMHO, he personally does not do well. I can list several things that make me think he will be exactly what he is, an average NFL QB who may or may not even be starter material.

Lets here now from all the supporters of David Carr what they think he actually does good.

Anything, anything at all..........

Napa Auto Parts
10-27-2005, 12:57 AM
Well im not a Carr supporter or hater i support the texans but i see we have a lame excuse of a QB i wonder what people will say when David cant even look good againts the browns.

SESupergenius
10-27-2005, 01:39 AM
first let me start with this. I have just read through 6 pages of this thread and NOT ONCE has any Carr supporter listed ANYTHING that he did well. Instead of keeping the focus on Carr, it is an endless string of cyclic threads about all of the following:

1: the Offensive Line is definitely sub par for the NFL.

2: The WR's are not all premium WR's and perhaps they need some route running skill enhancement.

3: The D can't stop the other team which results in obvious passing situations at the end of the game and we all know how that works out, with our current O-line.

Now that we have got all the 'smoke and mirrors' out of the way for the 'Carr is the greatest QB ever'fanatics, answer me this.

Tell me exactly, and specifically what Carr does himself that makes you think he is going to be a great QB, or even a very good QB. I am talking about Carr himself, not anyone, or any other component of our current team.

what is it that Carr does well? What is it that all you Carr supporters are seeing that I am not, and makes you think he still is going to be an above average QB in the NFL.

I can list several things that, IMHO, he personally does not do well. I can list several things that make me think he will be exactly what he is, an average NFL QB who may or may not even be starter material.

Lets here now from all the supporters of David Carr what they think he actually does good.

Anything, anything at all..........
If you name 1 thing the O-line does good then we can start there, that is where the games are won and lost, in the trenches. How many Pro-Bowlers do you see on the offensive line? Wanna try NONE. What are Carrs options on any given play? 2 WR's, a slow TE who can't catch, and DD out of the backfield. 4 against 7, go do the math.

What does Carr do well. He scrambles from the atrocious collapse of the pocket to create some sore of drive with legs for a 1st down. When he has time, he darts his passes to recievers that hit them in stride.....but sometimes they just aren't looking for the ball (jab) or it bounces off them like Superman's chest to a speeding bullet. Carr roles out well and hits his target.....if the defense hasn't prepared for that play since we ran it a cagillion times enough for the defense to sniff out. Carr is good at remaining upbeat after taking a beating repeatedly from the regime and the poor excuse of players on the offensive line. Carr does a good job of consoling an offensive line player for his mistakes....even that mistake allows harm to him physically. Carr does well in still trying his best despite the numberous changes that a club goes through in expansionism.

texan279
10-27-2005, 03:18 AM
After watching this game, who still thinks Carr is the quarterback of the future for this team? He is terrible. Worst starting quarterback in the NFL. No question. The team has so much confidence in him they let him throw the ball 9 times. 9 times! This isn't Ferris Bueller's absences in one school year; this is the number of passes Daniella Carr threw today. I know there were more pass plays called, but he only threw 9 passes!

P-Lease don't bring the O-Line talk. Did you see Carr throw? Or try to. He can't. How did he miss Jabar on that 3rd down out route? Wide Open. Wiiiiiiiide Open.



Also, Domanick Davis is one of the best RBs in the league. It just sucks he is on a crappy team and the rest of the nation doesn't get to see him often. Poor man's LT. Him and Reggie Bush on the same team would be scary. Especially when one lines up as a receiver and the quaterback is a scrambler like...............................I don't know......Vince Young.

Doesn't matter what we think about Carr being the future of our team, because the front office is the one who makes the decisions, and from what I read and hear, they are picking up Carr's option. And yeah, Carr missed Gaff on the one pass, but show me one QB in NFL history who hasn't missed a WR. For all we know it could have been a miscommunication on the play call, I don't know, but I think there is something going on because it seems like Carr has missed quite a few WR's this season, and when I say miss I mean he missed them big time or when he gets it to them I have seen a lot of them dropped, but no one says a thing about AJ and his drops, and no I am not saying it's our WR's faults, but maybe a lack of communication between the QB, WR, and the coaches. And why is it if Carr appears way off on his throws to Bradford some here say Bradford ran the wrong route and if he looks off when he throws to Gaff. I was one of the biggest Carr bashers on here in the preseason and in the first couple of weeks and I am not saying he is not to blame at all but there are other problems here too. Carr looked better to me last season. For some reason he has regressed whether it be the coaches or the abuse he takes each game or the mental effect all of these hits, sacks, and rushes are having on him. And if you think Davis is one of the best RB's in the NFL, why should we draft another RB in the draft as far as Reggie Bush goes? Davis is a solid RB, but IMO not "one of the best" in the NFL. I would take LT, Edge James, Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander and a few others over Davis if I had a pick. I know my post rambles and is jumbled together but it's 2:30am and I am tired...

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 03:35 AM
It's obvious this person doesn't understand there is a distinct difference between run blocking and pass blocking.

Of course I know there is a different. My point is people inflate the o-line problem.

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 03:39 AM
Doesn't matter what we think about Carr being the future of our team, because the front office is the one who makes the decisions, and from what I read and hear, they are picking up Carr's option. And yeah, Carr missed Gaff on the one pass, but show me one QB in NFL history who hasn't missed a WR. For all we know it could have been a miscommunication on the play call, I don't know, but I think there is something going on because it seems like Carr has missed quite a few WR's this season, and when I say miss I mean he missed them big time or when he gets it to them I have seen a lot of them dropped, but no one says a thing about AJ and his drops, and no I am not saying it's our WR's faults, but maybe a lack of communication between the QB, WR, and the coaches. And why is it if Carr appears way off on his throws to Bradford some here say Bradford ran the wrong route and if he looks off when he throws to Gaff. I was one of the biggest Carr bashers on here in the preseason and in the first couple of weeks and I am not saying he is not to blame at all but there are other problems here too. Carr looked better to me last season. For some reason he has regressed whether it be the coaches or the abuse he takes each game or the mental effect all of these hits, sacks, and rushes are having on him. And if you think Davis is one of the best RB's in the NFL, why should we draft another RB in the draft as far as Reggie Bush goes? Davis is a solid RB, but IMO not "one of the best" in the NFL. I would take LT, Edge James, Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander and a few others over Davis if I had a pick. I know my post rambles and is jumbled together but it's 2:30am and I am tired...


I think teams need two good backs. Usually one who is fast and a big back. But Bush is so good you could line him up at receiver often and leave DD in the backfield. He would easily be the no 2 receiver on our team right now. Also if you had both of them split in the backfield, shotgun, three wide. Tough to defend. Especially when you mix in some draws with either. Both could line up at receiver too. 5 wide. Decoys.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 08:47 AM
first let me start with this. I have just read through 6 pages of this thread and NOT ONCE has any Carr supporter listed ANYTHING that he did well. Instead of keeping the focus on Carr, it is an endless string of cyclic threads about all of the following:

1: the Offensive Line is definitely sub par for the NFL.

2: The WR's are not all premium WR's and perhaps they need some route running skill enhancement.

3: The D can't stop the other team which results in obvious passing situations at the end of the game and we all know how that works out, with our current O-line.

Now that we have got all the 'smoke and mirrors' out of the way for the 'Carr is the greatest QB ever'fanatics, answer me this.

Tell me exactly, and specifically what Carr does himself that makes you think he is going to be a great QB, or even a very good QB. I am talking about Carr himself, not anyone, or any other component of our current team.

what is it that Carr does well? What is it that all you Carr supporters are seeing that I am not, and makes you think he still is going to be an above average QB in the NFL.

I can list several things that, IMHO, he personally does not do well. I can list several things that make me think he will be exactly what he is, an average NFL QB who may or may not even be starter material.

Lets here now from all the supporters of David Carr what they think he actually does good.

Anything, anything at all..........

I will say say it again. Puts up Elway numbers(hall of famer, two superbowls) and throws like Farve(future hall of famer, one superbowl)

The team as a whole stinks. Not that Carr is excused, he is playing bad, but he is not "take'em to the pasture and put him down" bad. Give him Harringtons WR's and Seattle's blocking and he plays like this, then we will talk.

Kaiser Toro
10-27-2005, 08:51 AM
first let me start with this. I have just read through 6 pages of this thread and NOT ONCE has any Carr supporter listed ANYTHING that he did well. Instead of keeping the focus on Carr, it is an endless string of cyclic threads about all of the following:

1: the Offensive Line is definitely sub par for the NFL.

2: The WR's are not all premium WR's and perhaps they need some route running skill enhancement.

3: The D can't stop the other team which results in obvious passing situations at the end of the game and we all know how that works out, with our current O-line.

Now that we have got all the 'smoke and mirrors' out of the way for the 'Carr is the greatest QB ever'fanatics, answer me this.

Tell me exactly, and specifically what Carr does himself that makes you think he is going to be a great QB, or even a very good QB. I am talking about Carr himself, not anyone, or any other component of our current team.

what is it that Carr does well? What is it that all you Carr supporters are seeing that I am not, and makes you think he still is going to be an above average QB in the NFL.

I can list several things that, IMHO, he personally does not do well. I can list several things that make me think he will be exactly what he is, an average NFL QB who may or may not even be starter material.

Lets here now from all the supporters of David Carr what they think he actually does good.

Anything, anything at all..........

What does Carr do well on the field, hmmmm? He is very good at running to his right. He does not shy away from contact. He shows, at times, a gun of a arm.

Wow! That is a tough question. I thought I would be able to come up with more by taking a objective viewpoint.

Napa Auto Parts
10-27-2005, 09:15 AM
To bad we dont have a Qb hat can take advantege of that:texflag:

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 09:42 AM
What does Carr do well on the field, hmmmm? He is very good at running to his right. He does not shy away from contact. He shows, at times, a gun of a arm.

Wow! That is a tough question. I thought I would be able to come up with more by taking a objective viewpoint.

You forgot, he picks himself up off the ground after each and every play, tries to lead a talentless offense, and plays thru injuries for ungreatfull fans, all the while attempts to keep his composure with the crap system he has to play in.

It must be tough to have all the talent in the world but have your growth stunted by an orginazation who doesent give a rats about you. Just thrown to the wolves week after week after week.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 10:05 AM
:texans: Did someone compare Carr to Elway and Favre ? Coming out of Standford ... Elway was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever . I 'm thinking he did not dissapoint . He carried OK teams to the Super Bowl . If Elway had played in a different system he might hold all the passing records .
Favre is the ultimate gunslinger who never met a throw that he would not try . He also elevated his team... Favre played with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and never made excuses . The Monday night game against Oakland shows the affection his team has for him .
Right now Carr's closer to Rick Meier than Favre or Elway .

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 10:28 AM
:texans: Did someone compare Carr to Elway and Favre ? Coming out of Standford ... Elway was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever . I 'm thinking he did not dissapoint . He carried OK teams to the Super Bowl . If Elway had played in a different system he might hold all the passing records .
Favre is the ultimate gunslinger who never met a throw that he would not try . He also elevated his team... Favre played with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and never made excuses . The Monday night game against Oakland shows the affection his team has for him .
Right now Carr's closer to Rick Meier than Favre or Elway .

Yes I did. Highest prospect sure but you still cannot deny, and look it up if you dont believe me, the stats are the same. Elway had the orange crush on his side and a very good line to protect him. What does car have? The "no please let me get out of your way" o-line and a D that spots 30 points the other team.

Carr has never met a pass he didnt like either and Farve and Carr throw many many INT's trying to make things happen. Diffrence, Farve had an o-line, three good wide recievers (Corey Bradford?) and a D that could stop the other team.

And I think Carr plays hurt as well, hurt shoulder, hurt knee, pounded every week, still get out there and plays.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 10:28 AM
:texans: Did someone compare Carr to Elway and Favre ? Coming out of Standford ... Elway was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever . I 'm thinking he did not dissapoint . He carried OK teams to the Super Bowl . If Elway had played in a different system he might hold all the passing records .
Favre is the ultimate gunslinger who never met a throw that he would not try . He also elevated his team... Favre played with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and never made excuses . The Monday night game against Oakland shows the affection his team has for him .
Right now Carr's closer to Rick Meier than Favre or Elway .

Yes I did. Highest prospect sure but you still cannot deny, and look it up if you dont believe me, the stats are the same. Elway had the orange crush on his side and a very good line to protect him. What does car have? The "no please let me get out of your way" o-line and a D that spots 30 points the other team.

Carr has never met a pass he didnt like either and Farve and Carr throw many many INT's trying to make things happen. Diffrence, Farve had an o-line, three good wide recievers (Corey Bradford?) and a D that could stop the other team.

And I think Carr plays hurt as well, hurt shoulder, hurt knee, pounded every week, still get out there and plays.

Vinny
10-27-2005, 10:30 AM
Elway made clutch plays in crunch time. Carr folds under pressure. Stats alone are not a good indicator of great QB play. Stats don't tell you who made a play in the cluch and who threw a 1 yard dump pass where the other player made the great play. Anyone who compares Carr to Elway is just kidding himself.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 10:41 AM
Elway made clutch plays in crunch time. Carr folds under pressure. Stats alone are not a good indicator of great QB play. Stats don't tell you who made a play in the cluch and who threw a 1 yard dump pass where the other player made the great play. Anyone who compares Carr to Elway is just kidding himself.

What was Elway's clutch play? Nothing more then getting time to throw the ball and his WR's capable of getting open and getting out of bounds to stop the clock. I dont think he won any games by completing an 80 yard pass down field in the last second. Didn't Elway get to call his own plays where as Carr dosent have that option. It's hard to make plays in the clutch when you are on your back.

Once again, it's a team/system that is also to blame. Not just Carr.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 10:53 AM
:texflag: Texan Red how old are you ? If your into stats look how many 4th quaurter comebacks Elway had . Better yet maybe they'll have an Elway weekend on ESPN classics... with no repeats .
Vinny do you remember the 4th and seventeen against the Oilers . Elway rolled out and Richard Johnson bit on the fake and Johnny boy threw right over his head ... 1st down . DD is better than any RB Elway had until Terrell Davis and AJ is a better WR than the Three Amigos .

ps The Orange Crush was the 77 Bronco defense .

SESupergenius
10-27-2005, 10:54 AM
To compare Elways or Farves offensive system is weak as well. No doubt they are better than Carr, but no doubt they had a hell of a lot more talent and better schemes than Carr has ever had. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 11:04 AM
:texflag: Great leaders elevate their team . They don't do this by going 6/9 for a +6 yds .
Its not about what Carr might have been its about what he is . I do believe the whole front office except for the secretary's should be fired for not building a team to protect the QB . I also believe Palmer , Manning , and Vick are better prospects . So maybe it was our bad luck we drafted in 2002 or maybe it was Palmer , Mannings and Vick good luck .

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 11:12 AM
:texflag: Texan Red how old are you ? If your into stats look how many 4th quaurter comebacks Elway had . Better yet maybe they'll have an Elway weekend on ESPN classics... with no repeats .
Vinny do you remember the 4th and seventeen against the Oilers . Elway rolled out and Richard Johnson bit on the fake and Johnny boy threw right over his head ... 1st down . DD is better than any RB Elway had until Terrell Davis and AJ is a better WR than the Three Amigos .

ps The Orange Crush was the 77 Bronco defense .

I thought the orange crush was all the way thru the 80's? Kinda of like the Aggie Wrecking Crew.

AJ better than the Three Amigo's? Really? Have you not noticed that AJ cant catch? Cant get open? If you hit AJ in the hands he drops the ball and please dont give me the "he is trippled covered b/c Moss and Owens dont have any trouble finding open range.

once again the system dosent allow for carr to show his true attributes.

BuffSoldier
10-27-2005, 11:12 AM
first let me start with this. I have just read through 6 pages of this thread and NOT ONCE has any Carr supporter listed ANYTHING that he did well. Instead of keeping the focus on Carr, it is an endless string of cyclic threads about all of the following:

1: the Offensive Line is definitely sub par for the NFL.

2: The WR's are not all premium WR's and perhaps they need some route running skill enhancement.

3: The D can't stop the other team which results in obvious passing situations at the end of the game and we all know how that works out, with our current O-line.

Now that we have got all the 'smoke and mirrors' out of the way for the 'Carr is the greatest QB ever'fanatics, answer me this.

Tell me exactly, and specifically what Carr does himself that makes you think he is going to be a great QB, or even a very good QB. I am talking about Carr himself, not anyone, or any other component of our current team.

what is it that Carr does well? What is it that all you Carr supporters are seeing that I am not, and makes you think he still is going to be an above average QB in the NFL.

I can list several things that, IMHO, he personally does not do well. I can list several things that make me think he will be exactly what he is, an average NFL QB who may or may not even be starter material.

Lets here now from all the supporters of David Carr what they think he actually does good.

Anything, anything at all..........


Carr is a great team leader, taking the lead role from day 1
team player, never points fingers
rocket arm can thread a tight spiral through coverage
accuracy rolling out of the pocket
good speed, will run if he needs too and can do it well
throws a pretty good deep ball
competitor, never gives up
accurate when given time to step up into the pocket

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 11:17 AM
Buff tell the QB you just described to show up Sunday .

Kaiser Toro
10-27-2005, 11:26 AM
Buff tell the QB you just described to show up Sunday .

That is something I think we all wuold like to see.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 11:36 AM
:texflag: If you disbanded the Texans right now AJ would be the 1st or 2nd player picked from this team . AJ was the best young WR in the NFL last year . OK the line sucks , AJ sucks , the WR as a whole suck , DD is ok not good . Hey you can take the negatives like an Xray and find the cavity .

Vinny
10-27-2005, 11:41 AM
I think Carr will get the nod going into next year and if he still struggles, he will be traded before the 2007 season.If Carr continues to struggle he won't be tradable with his contract.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 11:49 AM
Even if that QB shows, will it be enough? It's not like this team is one or even two players from greatness.

Anyone know if there is any good free agent linemen this year?

Vinny
10-27-2005, 11:54 AM
I'm assuming we pick up his deal...he won't be a FA in that case.

ArlingtonTexan
10-27-2005, 11:54 AM
Carr is a great team leader, taking the lead role from day 1
team player, never points fingers
rocket arm can thread a tight spiral through coverage
accuracy rolling out of the pocket
good speed, will run if he needs too and can do it well
throws a pretty good deep ball
competitor, never gives up
accurate when given time to step up into the pocket


1- he was placed as team leader, does not seem to have the trust of team
2- not in interviews, but look at him on the field.
3- strong arm, not sure about the thread part
4- good on planned rolls, but not scrammbles
5- tough runner, his best plays has been as a runner
6- because of offense does not do it enough to comment
7- maybe best quality,
8- inconsistent accuracy with or without time

SESupergenius
10-27-2005, 11:56 AM
If Carr continues to struggle he won't be tradable with his contract.
I'm sure the 49rs were thinking the same thing when Steve Young was traded for by Buccaneers.

It's funny you keep saying if Carr continues to struggle, but you leave a couple of factors that affect him....Oline, play calling...etc. Ho Hum, Carr must suck on defense too, I mean what's he doing on the sideline when he could be stopping the gap for Greenwood.

Reddevil63
10-27-2005, 12:06 PM
Lienart is on his way. Patience at this point. BTW I was watching the Indy game on superfan yesterday and counting the seconds that Manning had. On the plays where he had no time, the ball was still out of his hands before the blitzer got there. No need to run for your life. Just get rid of the ball to the hot read. Pretty basic. Some guys have it, others don't.
Your going to be disappointed when Carr's option is picked up

beerlover
10-27-2005, 12:25 PM
And after Leinart gets knocked to the ground and starts crying like a little girl and is out for the season because he's never been hit by a man before, what are you going to do then? What are you going to do when a d-lineman "accidently" rolls up on his knees and his career is done, what are you going to do then? It doen't matter what his intangibles are, he is a liability. I'd rather take my chances with Jason White.

if the Texans selected Leinart I doubt they would make the same mistake as they did with Carr. Carr would still be the starter until some semblence of an offensive line and effective offensive scheme. then after a year or two Matt would be ready to become the franchise QB & Carr would be the back-up. if the Texans choose this route I would support it, just understand the 5 year plan just became the 7 year plan.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 12:29 PM
We are drafting a left tackle. Period. If we dont I vote to find Cass's house and egg it. Of cousre I feel he should be fired anyway, you dont give up two first rounds for Orlando Pace, but you give up 2,3,swap 4, for babbin. Then if that wasent good enough we traded our 2,3 for PBuc. I at first defended Cass that two first rounds was to much but then we drafted a non-starting undersized DT in the first. Just for us to draft an unproven LT this year. wow. McNeil is a better QB.

We are drafting a left tackle.:challenge

ArlingtonTexan
10-27-2005, 12:29 PM
1- he was placed as team leader, does not seem to have the trust of teamSo ****** play equals lack of trust. So...the second DC was drafter, no one trusted him. OK, you make little to no sense.

Have you ever had a job where the "manager" is consider the leader, but the actual employees don't have the same respect for him that the title implies?

Basically, Carr was annoited the leader becuase he was drafted as the number 1 pick QB. By title he is a team leader. The players don't view him as the leader of the team because draft position, a QB has to earn that (see Joey Harrington). IMO, the players around Carr don't react to him as their leader.

Yes, teammates trusting in your ability to make plays or not screw up matters is regards to being a leader.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 12:32 PM
:texflag: Big 8 , Matt L . has two NCAA championships and a Heisman award . I doubt he'll be on the ground crying . To cut him down to elevate Carr's is a pretty silly argument since Carr has none of the above ... I know BLAH BLAH BUSH BLAH BLAH USC BLAH BLAH CARROLL.

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 12:43 PM
we are drafting a left tackle
art shell will be our new head coach

ArlingtonTexan
10-27-2005, 12:45 PM
Yes I have been a manager. Apparently, I wasn't the problem...so we fired the people who were the problem, the ones that didn't show respect. Oh, and when we hired people who could show respect, things seemed to work out just fine...wow, that's wierd. I dont' know what sugar-coated world you live in with bunnies and JFK is still alive and happy, but this is the real world. Right now, Carr is the only one showing any effort and ability out there, so, if the Texans are smart, which they haven't proved otherwise, they'll get rid of the losers. Welcome to the real world.

If you were a manager, I think you would understand that effort and showing ability, but still not getting the job done gets people fired also. I have seen that in the real world.

The point which is that because someone claims that you leader does not mean that you really are to the people you are leading. That's real also.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 12:46 PM
:texflag: He is smart and he can audible he makes great throws with touch and he wins NCAA titles . I would not take Matt L in this draft but if he and Carr came out the same year it would be a no brainer that I would take the Trojan .

Don't confuse Carr 's approach . I still think he's got some Eddy Haskell in him . His game and his teammates don't reflect that he's this warrior you make him to be .

Vinny
10-27-2005, 12:48 PM
we are drafting a left tackle
art shell will be our new head coachThank you Carnac

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 12:49 PM
Have you ever had a job where the "manager" is consider the leader, but the actual employees don't have the same respect for him that the title implies?

yes, when I was sixteen and working the late shift at Burger King.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 12:52 PM
:texflag: I'm the new GM for the Texans ... Bigtex8 is with the Jets and Hulk is with the Cardinals , what would you trade me for Carr before the draft ?

Exascor
10-27-2005, 12:56 PM
we are drafting a left tackle
art shell will be our new head coachI hope that was sarcasm.

Vinny
10-27-2005, 01:16 PM
Billy Volek = Cody Carelson

Vinny
10-27-2005, 01:30 PM
This coming from the guy that thinks that Carr should play like Peyton Manning with our joke of a o-line and joke of a coach, Gm, and so on.I comment about the players while you continue to comment about the posters here. This forum is set up to talk about our individual opinions in regard to football. You need to keep it to that pards. An occasional comment questioning another poster is fine...but this ongoing hatefest towards guys wanting to talk football from the Carr-only fans has got to stop.

SESupergenius
10-27-2005, 01:35 PM
C'mon Vinny lighten up, that was just cross reference by him displaying your take on Carr and the background of your comments. Sheesh, this board is becoming a little too gestapo.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 01:37 PM
:challenge If you have a choice between Carr , Drew Brees or Phillip Rivers who goes first ?

Kiper said if Bree's was in the 2002 draft he would have been the first player taken .

If I could trade Carr to the Cards or Jets I'd then try to get Drew Bree's after I drafted a Lt .

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 01:44 PM
:texflag: Its all make believe so you can rewind or fastforward or both .

Coach C.
10-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Well I am back from a long road trip just to see the board is filled with misconceptions and more bad posts. Vinny you are right that Carr would flourish in a system like Peyton's. Carr does not have the ability to call audibles, because of the coaching staff. He also has less than 3 seconds to get a pass off. In case you guys who have not played football it takes 1.5 just to drop back. That means he can go to one prime receiver and a check off and then he has to get rid of it. Will I defend his play on Sunday no, he was frustrated and gun shy and it led to bad throws and dropped passes. He has to play better. Carr is in the top 5 of athletic QB's and also has one of the strongest arms in the league. Is he accurate, maybe, but we will not know until he has time to throw. Now remember I said Carr played horribly, as did the whole damn team. Understand that Carr is a good QB and one that next year all you haters will be on his junk because you are fair weather type guys.

Vinny
10-27-2005, 02:13 PM
C'mon Vinny lighten up, that was just cross reference by him displaying your take on Carr and the background of your comments. Sheesh, this board is becoming a little too gestapo.talk about the players all you want.

thegr8fan
10-27-2005, 02:16 PM
Now remember I said Carr played horribly, as did the whole damn team. Understand that Carr is a good QB and one that next year all you haters will be on his junk because you are fair weather type guys. yeah, I'm a fair weather type guy. That would explain why I drive 2.5 hours, each way, to a game against the Colts, knowing we are going to get creamed, cause it was really fair weather that day. :sarcasm:

As for next year, well I have heard that remark now for over 3 years. I have patiently waited 3 years to see this superstar QB emerge out of his cocoon that everyone is telling me is just a moment away from happening.

Honestly, I think Carr is a middle to low ranked starting QB in the NFL, on one of his good days. Right now he is playing well enough to be second string, IMHO. But if I had to point out a game, ANY game in the last 3.5 years of watching him play that I could say he actually played WELL in, I couldn't do it. I don't know of a single game that I saw even a peek at Carr's potential greatness. Now granted my memory ain't what it used to be, but I gotta say, I am getting very tired of the 'wait till next year when he will explode into the NFL's greatest QB ever' people telling me this. How about just one game, show me some of the exalted potential or greatness. Just one. Heck I would even settle for one half of a game to see it.

The Great One, not to sidetrack your points, I will get back to them, but don't have the time right now. Just a quick note though, if he has such a great arm, and touch on the long pass, when did he demonstrate that this season? I don't want an assessment of Carr's potential. I want individual plays where he actually SHOWED this on the field. The question was what have you actually SEEN Carr doing that makes you think he is going to be a great QB. Not what scouting report did you see. What play during a game, ANY game, did Carr show that he is going to be a great QB?

Coach C.
10-27-2005, 02:21 PM
Minnesota last year showed what Carr was made of. GB last year showed that this team's playcalling will always be a detriment to the team. Carr has played off and on. HE has played inconsistent and erratically, but he has played better than Harrington, Boller, Anthony Wright, J.P. Losman, A. Smith, and whatever other rookies come out and go to a crap team with terrible leadership.

Fair Weather is the definition of Houston Fans all over. That is how most of them are. If you took offense to being called Fair Weather then likely you are.

Vinny
10-27-2005, 02:23 PM
Fair Weather is the definition of Houston Fans all over. That is how most of them are. If you took offense to being called Fair Weather then likely you are.theGr8fan isn't a fair weather fan. I met Pete way before most of you guys ever even started an account to post here. He has been here since day one. You people need to keep your comments to the players and the team...this is getting ridiculous.

Coach C.
10-27-2005, 02:23 PM
Big Texan you are right. The most obvious thing if you watch Carr at practice and in games is that this system does not suit him. He is a gunslinger. He has a cannon and is not terribly accurate so you run the ball and then you let him spread the field and sling the rock. Until the Texans have a system in place to do this we will lose. Bottom Line...

Coach C.
10-27-2005, 02:25 PM
Vinny I never called him a fair weather fan, but I was taught people usually take offense to the truth. I am not attacking Petey boy but he should not get offended at the comment.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 02:25 PM
:texflag: I don't really think anyone doubts Carr's physical skills . This whole issue with most of us is when he stinks he does'nt get benched .

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 02:37 PM
Billy Volek = Cody Carelson

Volek could start for the Texans. He is better than Daniella

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 02:38 PM
:texflag: Big Tex any of the three could step in like Big Ben with the Steelers and prospered. Going to an expansion team is worse than getting a peck on the cheek from Don Vito. Carr and Couch both could'nt be this bad .

Get an offensive minded coach with a good defensive cordinator . Start building from the line out and everybody from Carr to PBuch will look alot better .
If they can trade out of the 1 or 2 pick that their going to get and have 4picks in the top 40 draft choices then maybe we can get back to 7-9 next year pending that our picks play decent .

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 02:39 PM
:texflag: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO LOSE !

disaacks3
10-27-2005, 02:39 PM
Honestly, can anyone tell me that Carr:

1. Really knows HOW to read a defense? If so, how can you tell? The coaches (who supposedly know him better than any of us) don't trust him enough to let him EVER call his own plays. Calling audibles to change the DIRECTION of the run don't count. With VCR assistance, and slow-motion, anyone can tell whether the QB or the WR read the defense wrong. Trust me when I tell you that the WRs on this team (except Bradford) aren't as bad as many think.

2. Has a strong & accurate enough arm to throw deep? I'm not talking about 2002 throws to Bradford, I'm talking about last year's passes to A.J. that had the hang-time of a punt. I'm talking about all the sideline deep routes that go sailing blissfully out of bounds, three rows deep into the bench.

3. Knows how to scramble anywhere but to his right? Even when the line DOES form a pocket correctly (it does happen) Carr NEVER steps up into it. His tendency to 'take flight' is commonly premature.

4. Can throw on the run? How many times has Carr avoided the rush whilst rolling out, only to overthrow, underthrow, completely miss, or otherwise fail to get the ball to receivers that are open. In many cases the guys who come up to hit him have left the RB, TE, or WR wide open. (For those that think Carr=Favre/McNabb, you better watch the clinic on how to throw on the run by the latter two.)

65% of the sacks are because of line breakdown. A full 35% fall on Carr's shoulders due to poor decision making.

Whether it be:
A) Not throwing it away when he's about to be hit while rolling out behind the line of scrimmage.

B) Not throwing it away before running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage.

C) Not moving into the pocket, and being sacked as he runs into the DT/LB that his blocker moved to the outside like he was supposed to.

D) Not getting rid of the ball when he DOES get his "3 seconds" and somehow misses the DT who gets loose right in front of him.

I don't know if it's lack of confidence, fear, poor decision-making, lack of ability or what. Right now, he is incapable of doing what needs to happen to win consistently. The O-line may have caused it, and is still the major cause of the sacks, but poor passing falls on the QB unless he's actively being hit at the time. I feel sorry for the guy, but he's not holding up his end of the bargain either. Sitting him (while still healthy) may give him time to see the line & tendencies from an observers point of view and actually learn some useful things.

Feel free to pick apart this "analysis" as you see fit, but understand that I want the guy to succeed as much as anyone.

Vinny
10-27-2005, 02:41 PM
Volek could start for the Texans. He is better than DaniellaHe looked wretched his last start. His situation is the same thing as Moon's last days. Carelson played well in short stints and people thought he would just take over for Moon when Moon went away...but when he had to play week in week out his game's limitations were exposed the same way Tony Banks game is exposed when he plays more than one or two games a strech. I think that is a very good comparison...I just don't see a starting caliber NFL QB in Volek. Just a Tommy Maddux/Cody Carelson type talent.

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 02:49 PM
My final note on Leinart. Overrated. He will be one of the greatest college players to never to succeed in the NFL. He has weak knees, he's a product of a system, he's allowed to have control of a offense, his coach isn't an ***** (in college), he is surrounded if not suffocated by great talent...do I have to keep going? I would love for this guy to succeed, I just see the devil coming to collect prety soon. He's gonna get punked when they play Texas in the BCS Rose Bowl.

I guess you don't know that 332 yards and 5 tds against the second ranked team in the national championship means.

It means the qb is good.

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 02:51 PM
AT LEAST WE HAVE A CHANCE AT WINNING WITH CARR!!!

.000001 chance to be exact

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 02:59 PM
we are drafting a left tackle
art shell will be our new head coach
I hope that was sarcasm.
It was sarcasm.
You know we will take a linebacker.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 03:00 PM
:texflag: BIG TEX I don't feel like were going to win right now . We had the Bengals and what happened . A QBs job is to lead his team like Matt the Trojan and win .

TEXANRED
10-27-2005, 03:02 PM
He looked wretched his last start. His situation is the same thing as Moon's last days. Carelson played well in short stints and people thought he would just take over for Moon when Moon went away...but when he had to play week in week out his game's limitations were exposed the same way Tony Banks game is exposed when he plays more than one or two games a strech. I think that is a very good comparison...I just don't see a starting caliber NFL QB in Volek. Just a Tommy Maddux/Cody Carelson type talent.

What!? Comander Cody Carlson isnt good enough to replace Moon? Could the fans have been wrong then too?

I think some of us are secretly thinking Bucky Richardson is going to come in and save the day.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2005, 03:07 PM
:texflag: Anybody know Banks record as a starter with the Texans ?

yaboycm
10-27-2005, 03:49 PM
Wrong. That just proves that Oklahoma was more overrated than Leinart. That doesn't prove Leinart is a good QB. Leinart is gonna get smacked like a red-headed step-child when they play Texas.

OU shut out Texas last year. Yet Texas is going to slap around USC this year. Different teams but many of the same key guys. I see your logic. Beat, maybe. Smack around, no.

infantrycak
10-27-2005, 03:54 PM
:texflag: Anybody know Banks record as a starter with the Texans ?

3 wins, 3 losses with substantial playing time. Keep in mind, only in the losing overtime game with NE did he have over 20 passing attempts (and he only completed 40% that day).

thegr8fan
10-27-2005, 06:36 PM
Vinny I never called him a fair weather fan, but I was taught people usually take offense to the truth. I am not attacking Petey boy but he should not get offended at the comment. I was being sarcastic about your generalizations. You throw a pretty wide loop over a large number of people with them. So much so it is laughable to me. Offended? please. I got thicker skin than that Coach C. No offense taken by me.

and yes, after thinking on it all afternoon I will readily agree that the Minn. game last year Carr really showed what he could potentially be. That game is a fond memory to me actually. It is one of, if not the only time, that us NON fair weather fans who stay till the clock read 00:00 really got our moneys worth. Best loss I have seen by the Texans to date, IMHO.

SESupergenius
10-27-2005, 07:11 PM
Time for the O-Line overs to defend their boys. IMHO.

Doug
10-27-2005, 11:08 PM
I want sooo bad to get into the conversation and state my opinions but I can't stop laughing!!!! I just read through this whole thread and I feel like I'm back in high school. Talking trash and calling names for stating opinions and making excuses. Sorry, GO ON!:tv:

Goldeagle
10-27-2005, 11:28 PM
I like how the ORIGINAL poster says, "DOnt bring up the O-Line"

LOL, okay, Debate the war in Iraq, but dont bring up WMDs!

Vinny
10-27-2005, 11:30 PM
looks like this topic has run its course since nobody has anything but pot shots to add.