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BigBalla1983
10-19-2005, 08:20 PM
Have you seen his press briefing on our houstontexans.com site. he said that the team could get more enthusiastic if we would show them more support like we used to. Instead of booying them when they do something stupid he want us to cheer and cheer until we cant cheer anymore. then we go :texflag: and we show the other team that we could cheer for our team.

What do you guys think of his comments?

LORK 88
10-19-2005, 08:29 PM
i think he's deffering us to a different problem (our cheering?) because he doesnt want to talk about the fact we're 0-5.

Sec321texano
10-19-2005, 08:59 PM
Me and my wife will be there CHEERING just like any other game UNTIL it gets ugly. Then we will just watch and be HOPEFUL for the next game.

No matter what I STILL LOVE MY TEAM!!!!! :texflag:

gtexan02
10-19-2005, 09:00 PM
I don't buy it. McNair is attempting to use a simple psychological theory called 'Cognitive Dissonance' which states that if you say something outloud enough, you'll eventually believe it (simplified version). You see this a lot with eating disorder research, where girls will say 'Im not fat' over and over and 'Celebrity bodies are airbrushed' and eventually get the idea they can't be perfect. McNair wants us to cheer for the Texans so that we will start to believe that we like them again. He is losing money because people aren't coming to games, aren't paying top dollar for tickets, and aren't purchasing souveniers. If this team seemed to be making any effort (Fonoti anyone?!?) then I would be more apt to show some love. As it is, Im glad their in Houston and all, but this is not a good season.

the wonger need food
10-19-2005, 09:02 PM
Why am I not surprised that this organization is now pointing fingers at us fans. Always an excuse with these guys.

BTW Mr. McNair... if your team plays the way it has been playing all season I will boo my head off... until halftime anyway.

gtexan02
10-19-2005, 09:07 PM
You know, I just watched the briefing, and I say we give him what he wants. Football is not something every city gets to have. Look at LA. So lets cheer the hell out of the colts. Maybe making some noise will give us an advantage. If we embarass ourselves again, the least we can say is that we did everything we could. Then McNair will be left with no options but to look elsewhere

Vinny
10-19-2005, 09:08 PM
If this team seemed to be making any effort (Fonoti anyone?!?) then I would be more apt to show some love. As it is, Im glad their in Houston and all, but this is not a good season.Some people think that Fonoti is crazy...literally. Not only did we pass him up for a 6th, but so did the rest of the NFL. Hard to blame the team for passing on him....we may not know the whole story on that.

On the thread...I watched the tape and I find it hard to believe you guys want to twist sinister overtones on that. Lemmings eventually charge over cliffs you know.

beerlover
10-19-2005, 09:09 PM
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT :yahoo:

dat_boy_yec
10-19-2005, 09:26 PM
Lemmings eventually charge over cliffs you know.
umm no they dont thas a misconception, but i get what u mean.

Reddevil63
10-19-2005, 09:33 PM
Why is cheering for your team a shot at the fans? Isnt that what they are supposed to do? I realize that the team sucks, but they know that also. Changes are coming at the end of the season they cant do anything right now. If I had the bucks Id be there every Sunday right along with you guys getting hoarse and drunk. So make those in my situation proud, lord knows I try and make it so you guys can here me from my house. :texflag:

keyfro
10-19-2005, 09:35 PM
i think most texan fans have the same mindset...we'll cheer our butts off until the team begins to lose in a manor that is unacceptable...what i mean by that is playing with no heart and it shows...the team hasn't had any heart since the beginning of the season...we look like a boxer that just got punched in the mouth and is still stunned

Lucky
10-19-2005, 09:39 PM
Booing is passé. How about hissing, instead? It’s big in Europe. Plus, it could freak out the Colts. Think about it.

the wonger need food
10-19-2005, 09:45 PM
Booing is passé. How about hissing, instead? It’s big in Europe. Plus, it could freak out the Colts. Think about it.

That is funny and a great suggestion.

Joe Texan.... get us started on Sunday!

profan
10-19-2005, 09:45 PM
I think he applauded the fans for past support and asked them to come ready to cheer with the roof closed this Sunday. He basically said the fans are important and the team feeds off the fans support. I appreciate his comments and i'm thankful we have a first class owner. I really don't see how someone could find anything negative about his comments. If one does, one must be a really miserable person.

GP
10-19-2005, 09:53 PM
"If" that's what he said, then we have bigger problems than we first thought.

For an owner to make that comment (which I'm not sure he did) it makes me question how much longer I should follow this team.

I really hope he's not entirely serious, as in saying that CHEERING the bad product we see on the field is going to make things better.

If that's what he meant, then the guy is insane. You can't ask fans to cheer a losing team, especially the way we've been losing. Losing a game on a last-second field goal is one thing. Heck, losing a game in the last two minutes like we did in Cincy is acceptable. But losing the way we have to Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Tennesse, and Seattle is appalling and in no form or fashion deserves a good "cheering" until they show they can play competitive football like they did in Cincy.

I cannot fully believe that McNair is fully serious about cheering instead of booing. This guy would last two seconds in Philadelphia, New England, Pittsburgh, etc. He's just too doggone nice.

So I guess if Pepsi develops a soft drink, and nobody buys it because it tastes bad....Pepsi just continues to throw millions of advertising dollars away to convinve people it tastes good?

And on top of it, now that I think about it, isn't his comment a little arrogant for the OWNER of a team to instruct the people who PAY HIM to see the team play to keep cheering?

Yeah, that's going to win over a lot of Texans fans: "Hey! I'm Bob McNair and I own the Texans! What? You don't like the team right now? Well, uh...how about you keep paying to see them and CHEER them back into proper form? Yeah, that's what we need. If you'll keep cheering, they'll do better. Heck if you'd cheer louder and not boo, they'd get better and more people will buy more tickets and popcorn and Texans souvenirs! Keep cheering guys! We're getting better the louder it gets!"

Please, somebody tell me that his comments were taken out of context by the poster who started this thread.

gtexan02
10-19-2005, 10:06 PM
Some people think that Fonoti is crazy...literally. Not only did we pass him up for a 6th, but so did the rest of the NFL. Hard to blame the team for passing on him....we may not know the whole story on that.
Fonoti may be crazy. He may be a serial murderer, or a loon who ends up scoring for the other team. The thing is, there are 32 teams in the NFL. One gave up a 6th rounder for him, and one was dealing him. That means that 30 teams passed. Of those 30 teams, the Texans have BY FAR the worst offensive line, and needed to take a chance. He has 1 year left on his contract. Lets say there is a 99% chance that he is crazy. Well, that is chance we needed to take. ALl those other teams can AFFORD to pass on someone they think is crazy. We Can't. Simple enough

Lucky
10-19-2005, 10:06 PM
"If" that's what he said, then we have bigger problems than we first thought...
Yes, let's parse interview answers over and over until we find the subliminal message. Again.

That's the underlying problem on this team. They interview poorly.

OzzO
10-19-2005, 10:39 PM
Ah, what it sounded like to me in the video (some paraphrasing)....

he's expceting the players to play inspired and is wanting the fans to help as they have in the past because they invigorate and inspire the team to play well. He wants the fans to feel like this is our team and that we're with them to help with a win. Noted that the fans have been great in the past and that it's still a long season to go and that he's looking forward to the fans coming out.

So, maybe a little different view than the original post. Personally, I'll still be out for toro, the cheerleaders, then scream the last names as the players come on the field and keep on cheering from the heavens of 619 till it looks like the cheering is not being reflected in Texans play.

GO TEXANS... the fans are ready, are you?

the wonger need food
10-19-2005, 11:13 PM
The first post was completely out of context. He was basically asking for the fans to stay positive, etc.

An interesting thing at the end there.... he said that so far they've had some bad breaks and injuries. It would have been nice to hear some honesty there and for him to call some people out instead of making excuses.

Bassinguy
10-19-2005, 11:18 PM
Have you seen his press briefing on our houstontexans.com site. he said that the team could get more enthusiastic if we would show them more support like we used to. Instead of booying them when they do something stupid he want us to cheer and cheer until we cant cheer anymore. then we go :texflag: and we show the other team that we could cheer for our team.

What do you guys think of his comments?
That's nothing more than the usual banter. He's not going to show his hand if he's actually looking to make a change. The next thing I'd expect is the old vote of confidence statement. The axe usually falls shortly afterward.

the wonger need food
10-19-2005, 11:21 PM
McNair's Impromptu Media Session (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3404515)

BigBalla1983
10-20-2005, 12:46 AM
i love this team to death. but imo i believe we are always there for the team but yes lately we probably have been booing the team when the offense sputters or when the defense gives up the big play. I believe in cheering more when the opposing team gets into the redzone. So our defense should have the advantage, but lately it hasnt worked. I hope all fans will keep cheering till the end of the season and then i want to know what mcnair would say. Thats all i wanted to say. Go Texans!!!!

This is me everyweekend on sundays here sitting on couch and waiting for the texans to do something with heart like they did last year but there is no heart in this time. I watch the whole game and then after the game i go ahead and play some madden and woop on the other team with the texans to release my stress that the texans caused :P. i just hoped they lived to there hype like carr was saying in the offseason. DD played up to his hype now its up to the offense to work as a whole and not as a 1 dimension offense. :texflag:

eriadoc
10-20-2005, 12:56 AM
If you want to try and read between the lines, I'll tell you what I got out of it. It seemed like to me, McNair wanted to say outright, "Hang with us until we can ditch this coaching staff and we'll make it better". But then, that might just be wishful thinking on my part :)

Nighthawk
10-20-2005, 01:20 AM
If you want to try and read between the lines, I'll tell you what I got out of it. It seemed like to me, McNair wanted to say outright, "Hang with us until we can ditch this coaching staff and we'll make it better". But then, that might just be wishful thinking on my part :)

I think that's wishful thinking, and McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team. The new MN owner has done better with his problems than McNair. He looked good when it was easy, but now that it's gotten tough, McNair is spouting Capersisms.

Malloy
10-20-2005, 05:45 AM
umm no they dont thas a misconception, but i get what u mean.

I did read about a mass suicide of sheep a couple of months ago, Greece or Turkey I believe. Hundreds of sheep ran off a cliff, poor shepard were in tears.

Malloy
10-20-2005, 05:51 AM
It would have been nice to hear some honesty there and for him to call some people out instead of making excuses.

Consider him the PR man in this situation, all he's doing is waving the flag, not presenting his own in-depth analysis.

Malloy
10-20-2005, 05:56 AM
...McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team.


What then, sell and move the team away AGAIN?...

If you don't like the team, or the entire organization, then why are you even a fan? Since this Texans team is obviously not giving you what you want, I would suggest that you find some other sport, or team, to cheer for.

Honoring Earl 34
10-20-2005, 06:32 AM
:tv: The bottom line is if I'm a Houston sports fan and I have the Stro's in the World Series , the Rockets are going to be a very good team , UT has a chance at a national championship ... where do I have time for an 0 for ? team .

If Bob keeps the status quo I take it he's lost also . Some die hards may say folks like me are fair weather fans but I like an overachieving team with heart . I also admire a well oiled machine (not penalty machine ) .

Cjeremy635
10-20-2005, 09:47 AM
Booing is passé. How about hissing, instead? It’s big in Europe. Plus, it could freak out the Colts. Think about it.


That's funny, I don't care who you are! Thanks man, I needed that this morning....I'll be hissing in section 129 Sunday!!!!

GO 'STROS...........TEXANS :texflag:

ATX_Texan
10-20-2005, 10:39 AM
McNair's actual words can be found in this article in today's Chronicle:

Link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3404718)

The scary part is the final quote from the article:

"It just boils down to everyone executing and doing their job. There's no great mystery. We just haven't been executing. We've got to go out and do our jobs. And when we do, the results will be better."

This sounds just like the same crap we have been hearing from Capers for over a year now. The bottom line is that the offensive and defensive schemes are not working anymore. The other teams in the league know what the Texans are doing and how to defeat them. We cannot be like the Cowboys in the 90's and run at other teams and dare them to stop us. In addition, the players and fans realize that plan will not work and for that reason they don't believe in this staff anymore. This staff is not capable of making adjustments, so we need to change it. The sooner, the better.

Vinny
10-20-2005, 10:42 AM
McNair is right though....the players have to go out and excute. What's the alternative? Just close the Stadium?

TexanExile
10-20-2005, 10:59 AM
Short of cutting Capers off at the knees and outright acknowledging that the season is over, what exactly did we expect the man to say? Stay home? Boo all game long? Quit on the team like the team's quit on Capers?

There's not a lot beyond "it's unsatisfactory" and "I'm accountable" that he can say--and he said BOTH of those things. The latter, in fact, has yet to come from the people who are far more accountable than him. I'm sick of people in the news and in sports getting into these games of sound-bite "gotcha," ripping phrases from their context and flailing around indignantly with breathless "how-dare-they" outrage. McNair said nothing here that's unexpected, and frankly nothing worth getting into a twist about.

I don't fault Bob McNair for trying to be a good and patient owner here. His only alternative at this point is to fire everyone right now and potentially turn this into an even bigger mess. This is a good man in a rotten position trying to handle this with class.

Side note on that Fonoti reference: According to NFL Network last night, Fonoti weighed 406 pounds about 2 weeks ago and just recently dropped below the 400 mark. Granted, at that size he's probably a better pass-blocker lying down than some Texans O-linemen are standing up, but I don't think Houston desparately needs yet another damaged and wheezing fat guy out there. It would've been nice to see an effort to do something, but I'm not considering this the equivalent of losing out on a legitimate starting lineman.

tsip
10-20-2005, 11:12 AM
McNair is right though....the players have to go out and excute. What's the alternative? Just close the Stadium?

...ok, everyone is on the same page--players have to go out and execute...but there in lies the problem, as they are not executing and have not for awhile...McNair-like Capers-has achknowledge the most basic requirement of a player's job description...what does that solve? Does whether or not we close the stadium today have an effect on execution?

IMO, McNair needs to concentrate his efforts on not telling us what we already know===NO EXECUTION==but what he is going to do to solve this problem. Last year, without telling us how, McNair said pass protection would improve this year but it has-in fact-gotten worse. I don't want McNair to be one of those owners that 'tells us what we want to hear' but does not solve the problem. Too, losing control of his fan base which translates into money out of his pocket, should not be his call to address problems that have been on going...results is the name of the game, not telling us all what we alrady know.. :thumbdown

ATX_Texan
10-20-2005, 11:14 AM
I guess what I am trying to say is that back in the 90’s teams knew the Cowboys were going to run certain plays. Because of their talent and their ability to execute flawlessly, it did not matter what the opposing team did. They could simply overwhelm the other team. It seems to me that Capers and McNair feel that the Texans can somehow operate in the same manner. If they just execute Pendry’s and Fangio’s game plans, they will impose their will on the other team. The flaw in this idea is that the Texans are not talented enough to function in this manner. After reviewing four years of film on the Texans, I think most good coaches have determined how to defeat the same tired plays they are running. Perfection execution of bad plays is not enough to overcome teams that are better prepared and more talented. The players have come to realize the futility of trying and failing by doing the same things over and over again. You add in the lack of talent due to the failures of Casserly and you see the disorganized mess displayed week in and week out.

To be honest, I did not expect much more out of McNair. What can he really say in this situation? The state of this team is horrible and he still has to somehow sell this product for the rest of this lost season. I think that we fans are just tired of playing along.

Vinny
10-20-2005, 11:40 AM
I don't know how you come to that conclusion....that little speech just reeked of "calm down till I fire the coach".

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 11:42 AM
I don't know how you come to that conclusion....that little speech just reeked of "calm down till I fire the coach".

Vinny you must play Poker. I read the same thing in McNair's face. He is upset and pissed that he is losing money and having to watch McClain kick ***. McNair is dying to pull the trigger and I would not be suprised if they have already been in contact with Kubiak to check on his interest and availability.

Vinny
10-20-2005, 11:42 AM
There is no room for Booing any team, ever, What is the point do you think it makes them play better.

I dont care what anybodys record is you never boo, it is desrespectful to your team. They get booed on the road WHY would they want to hear it from their hometown "Fans".

Remeber when we were considered one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL?Booing bad play is a fans right. They deserve boos. Who do you think pays those salaries? It ain't magic.

Vinny
10-20-2005, 11:45 AM
Vinny you must play Poker. I read the same thing in McNair's face. He is upset and pissed that he is losing money and having to watch McClain kick ***. McNair is dying to pull the trigger and I would not be suprised if they have already been in contact with Kubiak to check on his interest and availability.Yep, we see the same thing. Supposedly we have already started a coaching search...if you believe the reports...and I think we are.

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 11:49 AM
I think we have contacted certain coaches and coordinators to check availablilty, but I doubt anything pass that. Hey what do you think of Kubiak HC, Turner OC, Dennison OLC, Jon Hoke DC. Let me know Vin I would be interested as your take. I think McNair would love for it to turn out this way. He is a big fan of Hoke and everytime he comes to the practice facility he likes to talk with Hoke more than Capers. Hoke does not have the experience though to be a HC, but a good DC would work, he did a hell of a job at Florida.

Malloy
10-20-2005, 12:06 PM
Dunno what to think about Hoke, it's not like our secondary has been rocking this season :I

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 12:15 PM
It is hard to rock when you are asked to cover people for 5 to 7 seconds. That is hard on any secondary, Deon, Green, Woodson, and some of the best corners would tell you it is damn near impossible. Plus He is trying to coach a depleted secondary that now has a two nicklebacks on the opposite end of D-Rob.

Cjeremy635
10-20-2005, 12:17 PM
There is no room for Booing any team, ever, What is the point do you think it makes them play better.

I dont care what anybodys record is you never boo, it is desrespectful to your team. They get booed on the road WHY would they want to hear it from their hometown "Fans".

Remeber when we were considered one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL?


Remember when we had a team that played with heart?

Double Barrel
10-20-2005, 12:30 PM
Some of you guys are cracking me up. Like a bunch of rats jumping off of a ship taking on water.

The ship is not sinking!! Sure, it's got to be pulled into port for refitting, but it'll be sailing again next year. Don't quit your team over one friggin' season!

So you go ahead and make that jump - yes, off of the bandwagon - and the rest of us hardcore fanatics will stick with the team during the hard times. Because this organization WILL get better. It's only a matter of time.

Staying a fan doesn't mean you can't criticize. But as long as it is constructive and analytical (not emotional...calling out Bob McNair! You should be ashamed of yourselves! tsk tsk)

You keep the hope, even when you don't think we'll win. YOU KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE!

Mr. McNair has always said that he is a fan owner. So he's talking from a fan's perspective - DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!! (What do you want? A "wannabe-GM owner" like Dan Snider?!)

Regardless of one season, we can't lose sight of the fact that success is just a matter of time.

Cut the owner some slack. If you truly expect him to come out and publicly diss the team, you've lost sight of a little thing call professionalism. I'd be disappointed in him if he said anything else at this point.

Just be patient, my fellow Texans fanatics, just be patient. And keep the hope alive. :cool:

CowboysTexansFan
10-20-2005, 01:06 PM
Great posts, Vinny and Coach C. When I saw McNair on TV and read the full article in the Chronicle, I came to the same conclusion you two did. Capers and his coaches will be gone next year. I don't know about Casserly, but I'm cautiously optimistic he will get the boot as well.

The team, as bad as it is right now, is stocked with a number of good young players that can be successful with more help and better coaching. If we get the first overall pick and trade it down slightly, we can land a stud OT and some additional high picks and/or players to reload the team. Add in some judicious free agent signings and first class coaching, and the team will be competitive again in no time.

I have confidence that McNair will do the right things once this disaster of a season comes to an end. I'm looking forward to it.

mean mark8
10-20-2005, 01:42 PM
I think when you have the 3rd highest payroll in the league and your performance has been as bad as the Texans', McNair is doing his part by opening his wallet but the GM and coaches are not doing their parts. I too believe that this may be a read between the lines statement that McNair is telling the fans to hold in there until he can get rid of the staff. Let's face it, the head coach, offensive coordinator, and defensive coordinator are all Capers' people.

Our receivers are not performing up to par so promoting that coach to OC doesn't sound appealling. Anyone want to promote the other line coach to OC :bomb: ? That would leave the QB coach or running backs coach which I don't know that either could solve the problem. We can't implement an entirely new playbook in one week so we're stuck.

As far as defense, it's all Fangio's people. Everyone wants to promote Hoke to DC. Has anyone seen Buchanon become what they thought he'd be under Hoke's tutelage? What about CC Brown not playing the run support like he should or covering his man like he should either? If you want to give it to Hoke based on D Rob's performance, well that's just not right. Again, we can't change the playbook in just one week, so, again, we are pretty much stuck.

For any of you wanting to promote our special teams coach, we are very much a middle of the pack special teams team. That with Kris Brown and Stanley as our kickers and Buchanon and Mathis as our return men. Does this sound like we should be middle of the pack?

I think McNair wants more for his investment. He bought into the 5-year plan that Capers said he had, but the wheels have fallen off in year 4. Coincidentally, I believe that's the same year they fell of for him with Carolina. Now, I think McNair is just trying to salvage fan support until he can do something about it. :ok:

TEXANRED
10-20-2005, 01:43 PM
I don't buy it. McNair is attempting to use a simple psychological theory called 'Cognitive Dissonance' which states that if you say something outloud enough, you'll eventually believe it (simplified version). You see this a lot with eating disorder research, where girls will say 'Im not fat' over and over and 'Celebrity bodies are airbrushed' and eventually get the idea they can't be perfect. McNair wants us to cheer for the Texans so that we will start to believe that we like them again. He is losing money because people aren't coming to games, aren't paying top dollar for tickets, and aren't purchasing souveniers. If this team seemed to be making any effort (Fonoti anyone?!?) then I would be more apt to show some love. As it is, Im glad their in Houston and all, but this is not a good season.

In my opinion this attitude (not specific to you, but by the fan base as a whole) is why we lost the oilers, and it is why Taglibu first said we would not get another team and why the rest of the nation thinks this is a poor football town, and why Texas is thought of as cowboy country.

I complain about how the team puts up a lackluster perfromance and missrepresents the city of houston, but I feel we do the same to ourselves when we boo our own team and not show up to games.

Ultimately it is just a game. You dont go just for the game, you go for the experience. The tailgate, the BBQ, the beer, socialize, the bands, razzing the other teams fans.

If you stand behind your team during the good times then you have to stand behind them in the bad. This is a bad times but focus on just having fun and know this isnt forever.

Kaiser Toro
10-20-2005, 02:03 PM
My opinion is that I am glad the McNair made himself available for a comment. I did not expect him him to provide a gameplan for success and nor should he as it is his investment. I have invested in his business model that he brought to Houston and will continue to do so.

I am from Austin and have no allegiance to Houston. I left the Cowboys due to a meddling owner and player's out of control and to start with somehting fresh. The product may not be fresh at this moment, but the experience of watching MY TEAM remains fresh. I will take the heckles at work every Friday with my Jersey on as I belive my turn to heckle others will be coming in the future due to Mr. McNair's focus, wallet and will.

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 02:04 PM
MeanMark8 I just wanted to address your Hoke thoughts. CC Brown is playing great considering he is a 5th round pick. Right now around the league he is considered one of the steals of the draft. Does he need to learn zone placement and proper angles of course he does, but so did every safety to play in this league. You talk about Buch not becoming what he is supposed to, the kid is in his 4th year and the fact of the matter is you cant turn a bad apple into a good one. Hoke focuses on trying to cut all the rot of PBuch(bad apple reference) it will take time. I do admit Hoke does need to focus those guys in better zone coverage since Fangio insists on running it 60% of the time. Our guys other than PBuch are much better in man coverage, but that is not gonna get the job done as long as we have no pass rush.

mean mark8
10-20-2005, 02:16 PM
MeanMark8 I just wanted to address your Hoke thoughts. CC Brown is playing great considering he is a 5th round pick. Right now around the league he is considered one of the steals of the draft. Does he need to learn zone placement and proper angles of course he does, but so did every safety to play in this league. You talk about Buch not becoming what he is supposed to, the kid is in his 4th year and the fact of the matter is you cant turn a bad apple into a good one. Hoke focuses on trying to cut all the rot of PBuch(bad apple reference) it will take time. I do admit Hoke does need to focus those guys in better zone coverage since Fangio insists on running it 60% of the time. Our guys other than PBuch are much better in man coverage, but that is not gonna get the job done as long as we have no pass rush.

Actually, Brown is a 6th round pick. I'm sorry but I saw him get run over by Payton of the Titans like he was PBuch on Payton's way to the endzone. He doesn't have the hitting power you need out of your strong safety. I'm completely at a loss on why we have given up on Earl at safety. I know he was hurt but I believe he is healed now. Earl is much better in run support and coverage than Brown. Yes, he has a full year's more experience, which it would seem to me would indicate you'd want to play him. As for PBuch, I think the Texans thought it was his coaching with the Raiders that held him back. He doesn't back-pedal enough or turn his hips right in man coverage. Supposedly, the Texans' staff was going to teach him how. I'm assuming it was our d-backs coach who would do that. I don't know that anyone thought they could get him to hit anybody.

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 02:22 PM
The Raiders did not like P-Buch and they said he was not good in coverage, that had nothing to do with coaching, because Woodson had the same coach and was great in coverage. My mistake on Brown's draft status, but after the 4th they are all just projects. CC has the talent to be a very effective FS. It is not Hoke who put him in to play at SS. In training camp(if you came to them) he lined up at FS because he has more speed than Earl. Earl is the better SS, but think of the job Brown is doing out of posistion and you understand what Hoke provides. Think of how Aaron Glenn said that Hoke is one of the best coaches he has ever played for. Glenn played for Slocum man freakin RC Slocum(forgive me a A&M alumni). Check the smooth transistion for Coleman, and not to mention Earl who he rode all last year and coached him up. I still dont understand why he has not been on the field, but why has Armstrong not been on the field. I think your problem may be with Capers.

Texans Horror
10-20-2005, 02:28 PM
I am from Austin and...will take the heckles at work every Friday with my Jersey on as I belive my turn to heckle others will be coming in the future due to Mr. McNair's focus, wallet and will.


In Austin and you call yourself a Texans fan first? Good God, man, are the Longhorns fans not killing you?

(For the record, I'm a UT alumnus and a Longhorns fan; I just know how rabid Austin must be with UT gunning for the National Championship.)

Wharton
10-20-2005, 02:33 PM
i think most texan fans have the same mindset...we'll cheer our butts off until the team begins to lose in a manor that is unacceptable...what i mean by that is playing with no heart and it shows...the team hasn't had any heart since the beginning of the season...we look like a boxer that just got punched in the mouth and is still stunned

I agree with this statement 100%.

If the team were staying in games and giving an effort to win, then I will cheer till I am horse in the throat. At least that is what I did last season! This season has been different. The players are not giving forth the effort and it shows in their faces.

However, if the team doesn't give forth any effort, are getting blown out of games, and not listening to the coaches on the sidelines, then this is what I will look like come Sunday :bag:

GP
10-20-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
...McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team.



What then, sell and move the team away AGAIN?...

If you don't like the team, or the entire organization, then why are you even a fan? Since this Texans team is obviously not giving you what you want, I would suggest that you find some other sport, or team, to cheer for. --MALLOY

-------------------------------

What choice is given to a fan when the owner "might" be telling the fans to shut up and take it?

We've been lied to. We were told the pass protection would be better, and it's WORSE than it was. WORSE. Not the same, not a little better than last year, WORSE.

My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.

There is a pattern developing here. And the pattern is "This is what you're going to get," but when it doesn't materialize as planned or expected...you get told, "Shut up. Cheer. Like it or else..."

Now THAT's an organization any sports fan wants to follow, right?

"We stink? Oh well, at least we have football again."

The game is a game, but it's a game that is played to be WON. And you win by scoring more points than your opponents. If you do not win, you lose. And if you lose, you are (drum roll please) a LOSER. Yes, all of the activities such as tailgating are a PART of the game but they are not the game itself. How cool is it to walk into a restaurant that has great atmosphere, and the best service from the parking lot to the cashier, and you paid $100 for a meal that was burnt, tasted bad, and should have cost about $1.50 on the eastside of town?

The argument by some posters that says "It's about enjoying the whole experience" is mistaken, IMO. The experience happens on its own, win or lose. And it's merely a caveat to the real goal: Win, and most importantly win championships.

Biggio and Baggy are still playing because (drum roll again) they want to win and they want to win championships. They are tired. They are worn out. They have families that they would like to enjoy after being away from them for 18 and 15 years respectively...but they stuck it out each year to...win. It wasn't the smell of the grass on a summer day that kept them coming back, it was the promise of winning a championship. Was the smell of the grass, and the sounds of a crowd enjoyable to them? You bet. It helped them to perservere through the agony of defeat...but the primary reason they are still here is to win, and to namely win a world series.

So it is with all of sports. If winning wasn't the goal, no score would be kept.

And I know there's not a SINGLE fan here, whether you just signed up or have been here since you were five-years-old thorugh the Oilers era, who would jump ship if we were losing COMPETITIVELY week after week. It's to be expected to lose a game by a TD or a FG. But to lose the way we are losing, it will go down in sports history as one of the most laughable, agonizing, and embarassing seasons of any sports team in any type of sport. Period. And if you're OK with shrugging it off, then you are also a part of the joke that will be told for generations of sports fans to come.

Losing happens, but the excuses concocted here of "why" we should wait until the end of the season to fire Capers and rebuild is just a lack of vision and courage. I want the owner to do everything in his power to win NEXT weekend, not next year. And to tread on egg shells as if we can't possibly tear this thing down in mid-season is a lack of risk taking.

Well, Capers has had four solid years of "free pass" to do exactly what he wants, and he's had a GM that stands in his corner on player drafting, etc., and to think that he deserves the right to stay until the end of the season just on principle alone is absurd. It's a business. Get it done no matter how you have to get it done. Make the phantom tag at second base and sell it like you made it (Adam Everett). Slide sideways into third and take out their third basemen (Jason Lane). Pretend you called time so Larry Walker has to go back to second base instead of advancing to third (Ensberg).

You gotta play like you want to win, and that goes for OWNERSHIP too.

It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.

McNair might be playing poker. And, he might not. I hope he is, but even if he is...I gotta admit that I am having second thoughts about the credibility of the ownership. It starts at the top, and he's got to be willing to axe a guy who is a class guy on and off the field.

So tell Biggio that getting to the world series is not what it's all about. He'll look at you like you're nuts.

Herm Edwards to the press: "We PLAY the game to WIN."

McNair: please play the game to win. Pull the trigger. Drop the bomb. Call Ty from ABC Extreme Home Makeover. Do what it takes to win. Cheering is a natural bi-product of winning, or at least the possibility of winning.

Kaiser Toro
10-20-2005, 02:48 PM
In Austin and you call yourself a Texans fan first? Good God, man, are the Longhorns fans not killing you?

(For the record, I'm a UT alumnus and a Longhorns fan; I just know how rabid Austin must be with UT gunning for the National Championship.)

I try to keep my vices separate from one another. I have got a uniform for each day on the weekend. :)

Texas
10-20-2005, 02:55 PM
I will stick by the texans not matter what. I will always cheer for them because I know when I play ball any bit of hope gives me encouragment to do better. When I get booed it just brings me down. Now this is no excuse for our teams playing however I beleive we need to cheer more often. Also Peyton is a big play caller at the line and is good at reading defenses and is audible king. I say we get loud and make it where he cant hear himself - Randy

Cjeremy635
10-20-2005, 03:05 PM
My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.


I don't think it's just your family that has that quote. Did you hear President Bush's take on the quote?

"Fool me once, shame on me........Fool me twice, well you're not gonna fool me again.."...lol. Sorry, just trying to lighten up the tense board here. :tomato:

Runner
10-20-2005, 03:05 PM
I try to keep my vices separate from one another. I have got a uniform for each day on the weekend. :)

I combine my vices. I drink when I watch the Texans.

GP
10-20-2005, 03:12 PM
It takes a pretty different kinda' person to stand up and cheer wildly when the other teams are running their backup RBs out there and gaining 100 yds. with those backups....in addition to their starting RB who was pretty much finished for the day by halftime.

60,000 people standing up and cheering loudly for a team that couldn't compete with their shadows right now is borderline Jim Jones drink-the-kool-aid type of behavior.

Maybe constant booing is not the answer. I agree on that. But constant cheering is not the answer either.

Come on guys...life is a reward-based system for the most-part. You get things by earning them. And the incentive to earn them is monetary, self-edification (people cheering for you), etc.

Giving a team something for nothing is like giving a gambling addict a credit card and "trusting" them to use it wisely.

This SAME team has been cheered through sub-par talent and sub-par seasons since its inception three years ago. The only difference between those three years and this year is that we are WORSE than we were before we had even played our first scrimmage four years ago.

Cheering returns when competitive playing returns. And to tell people to cheer and not boo is like asking someone to smile when you jab a needle into their groin. The idea is a good one, but the results are incongruent.

Oil doesn't mix with water no matter how hard you try. So please, everybody including McNair needs to stop asking people to stop booing. Booing stops when competitive play begins. And competitive play will not begin until this staff is gone. And THAT is on McNair. Not us.

ATX_Texan
10-20-2005, 03:37 PM
It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.

Great post Gpshafer_1976. I feel exactly the same way you do about this situation. I get so tired of people here being upset with disgruntled fans, like we are part of the problem with this team. If you want to cheer for an inferior product, go right ahead. I don’t really think that canning Capers will do anything to save this season. However, I know that keeping him just delays the rebuilding that must begin. If we fire Capers now, we guarantee that he won’t be around next year. I think many fans would be happy just to see this necessary action taken. We cannot possibly suck anymore that we do right now. I think most fans will understand if the team struggles with interim coaches. The fans just there for the whole experience should not care who is coaching the them anyway. In the end, it will also be better for Capers. He is a lame duck coach, who’s fate is already sealed. What can he possibly accomplish in two months that he did not already do in four years? It cannot be any better for the assistant coaches, who have their fate tied with Capers. Give them the chance to do something on their own. At least we can know how good Hoke really is if we allow him to run the defense until the end of year.

Kaiser Toro
10-20-2005, 03:54 PM
I just do not think you can change the head coach unless he was caught doing something that was illegal. The last time I looked losing football games was not a crime in the state of Texas. However, if it will get them votes they may put it in the books.

What future head coach would want to come to an organization that ditches their HC in mid season? Moreover, if we do ditch Capers that gives any prosepctive candidates leverage in negotiating their deal for more dollars and/or more control. A candidate that would have been our top guy may now be to expensive and lesser candidates may priced right which does not bode well for us.

A change is needed, but not at the expense of our future.

GP
10-20-2005, 04:09 PM
This snippet is from the Niagra Falls Reporter and deals mostly with the Bills situation with Gregg Williams. It is an older article as it was written while Williams was still Bills HC.
---------------------------------

Here's the snippet I took, and here's the link Mid-Season change-a-rooskie (http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/staba90.html) to read the story yourself.

"..Football, though, involves complex systems that take months to fully install. Unlike baseball, basketball or hockey, you can't change styles simply by switching tacticians.

When NFL teams change coaches in midseason, it's generally a sign that the season is already lost, and the front office is trying to give fans a reason to keep coming to the stadium. That's why the Bills dumped Hank Bullough for Marv Levy in 1986 with Buffalo holding a 2-7 record..."

----------------------------------

My opinion: Yes, it is difficult to change HC's mid-season and expect much of anything good to happen. But notice the ending comment the author makes about "...it's generally a sign that the season is already lost, and the front office is trying to give fans a reason to keep coming to the stadium."

Last time I checked, you don't have a football team (a business) unless you generate revenues. And you generate revenues by getting fans to the stadium. They buy cokes, beer, hot dogs, souvenirs, etc. Ridding this team of a few coaches and bringing in interim coaches, such as a Marv Levy-type who obviously was a complete failure since he only took the Bills to only four Super Bowls after taking the team over, is a very acceptable course of action. It's not easy. It probably doesn't have "sure success" written all over it, but it does give the fans a sense that losing BADLY is not acceptable no matter what is the primary and/or secondary problems.

GP
10-20-2005, 04:15 PM
And, here's an article discussing the firing of Doc Rivers of the Orlando Magic...who dropped about a dozen games in the early part of the seaosn and was abruptly fired even before mid-season.

Magic HC change-a-rooskie (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/statitudes/11/23/coach.change/)

Here's a sample of the article:

"....But there's a silver lining: the Magic acted early. Teams that pull the trigger in the first 15 games have tended to have much more success than the others. There have only been six in the past 13 years, but the chart below shows that all six finished better than they started, and five of the six improved considerably."

The site has stats showing Before & After winning percentages when coaches are changed during a season. Albeit it is NBA and NFL, but it shows that taking action early is not always a death nail in the coffin of an already dying pro sports team.

c5demon
10-20-2005, 04:22 PM
Let's Go Astros, Let's Go Astros, Let's Go Astros!

yaboycm
10-20-2005, 04:30 PM
Screw the owner. If he didn't put the garbage on the field that he did I wouldn't have to boo. This motivates me to boo more

Honoring Earl 34
10-20-2005, 04:39 PM
:texflag: Firing Capers is not the key . This seasons snowballing as we sit . Who we bring in is everything ... we can at least get some credibility with all that are involved .
I do think its a total spring cleanig thats got to happen .

SESupergenius
10-20-2005, 04:47 PM
If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

If I was watching new episodes of "LOST" on TV and there were bad five times in a row, do I keep watching?

hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Honoring Earl 34
10-20-2005, 04:49 PM
:texflag: Does Lost have scantily cladded young lady's like survivor ?

Runner
10-20-2005, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=SESupergenius]If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

[QUOTE]

Absolutely not. Follow on question:

Do you (global "you", not SES) continue going, paying good money for bad food, and boo?

cuppacoffee
10-20-2005, 05:08 PM
Screw the owner. If he didn't but the garbage on the field that he did I wouldn't have to boo. This motivates me to boo more


IMHO we have a good owner, and Leinart ain't all that great.

TEXANRED
10-20-2005, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
...McNair has got his head in a hole like the rest of the losers associated with this team.



What then, sell and move the team away AGAIN?...

If you don't like the team, or the entire organization, then why are you even a fan? Since this Texans team is obviously not giving you what you want, I would suggest that you find some other sport, or team, to cheer for. --MALLOY

-------------------------------

What choice is given to a fan when the owner "might" be telling the fans to shut up and take it?

We've been lied to. We were told the pass protection would be better, and it's WORSE than it was. WORSE. Not the same, not a little better than last year, WORSE.

My family has a saying, "Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me twice, shame on ME" meaning that getting fooled by someone else is OK the first time, and it's the fooler's fault for being dishonest. But to get fooled again by the same person is on your own shoulders because you can't see the pattern developing.

There is a pattern developing here. And the pattern is "This is what you're going to get," but when it doesn't materialize as planned or expected...you get told, "Shut up. Cheer. Like it or else..."

Now THAT's an organization any sports fan wants to follow, right?

"We stink? Oh well, at least we have football again."

The game is a game, but it's a game that is played to be WON. And you win by scoring more points than your opponents. If you do not win, you lose. And if you lose, you are (drum roll please) a LOSER. Yes, all of the activities such as tailgating are a PART of the game but they are not the game itself. How cool is it to walk into a restaurant that has great atmosphere, and the best service from the parking lot to the cashier, and you paid $100 for a meal that was burnt, tasted bad, and should have cost about $1.50 on the eastside of town?

The argument by some posters that says "It's about enjoying the whole experience" is mistaken, IMO. The experience happens on its own, win or lose. And it's merely a caveat to the real goal: Win, and most importantly win championships.

Biggio and Baggy are still playing because (drum roll again) they want to win and they want to win championships. They are tired. They are worn out. They have families that they would like to enjoy after being away from them for 18 and 15 years respectively...but they stuck it out each year to...win. It wasn't the smell of the grass on a summer day that kept them coming back, it was the promise of winning a championship. Was the smell of the grass, and the sounds of a crowd enjoyable to them? You bet. It helped them to perservere through the agony of defeat...but the primary reason they are still here is to win, and to namely win a world series.

So it is with all of sports. If winning wasn't the goal, no score would be kept.

And I know there's not a SINGLE fan here, whether you just signed up or have been here since you were five-years-old thorugh the Oilers era, who would jump ship if we were losing COMPETITIVELY week after week. It's to be expected to lose a game by a TD or a FG. But to lose the way we are losing, it will go down in sports history as one of the most laughable, agonizing, and embarassing seasons of any sports team in any type of sport. Period. And if you're OK with shrugging it off, then you are also a part of the joke that will be told for generations of sports fans to come.

Losing happens, but the excuses concocted here of "why" we should wait until the end of the season to fire Capers and rebuild is just a lack of vision and courage. I want the owner to do everything in his power to win NEXT weekend, not next year. And to tread on egg shells as if we can't possibly tear this thing down in mid-season is a lack of risk taking.

Well, Capers has had four solid years of "free pass" to do exactly what he wants, and he's had a GM that stands in his corner on player drafting, etc., and to think that he deserves the right to stay until the end of the season just on principle alone is absurd. It's a business. Get it done no matter how you have to get it done. Make the phantom tag at second base and sell it like you made it (Adam Everett). Slide sideways into third and take out their third basemen (Jason Lane). Pretend you called time so Larry Walker has to go back to second base instead of advancing to third (Ensberg).

You gotta play like you want to win, and that goes for OWNERSHIP too.

It's as if McNair is keeping Capers out of the goodness of his heart, and the fans are watching their team get embarassed WEEKLY. Not every other week. WEEKLY. See a pattern? I do.

McNair might be playing poker. And, he might not. I hope he is, but even if he is...I gotta admit that I am having second thoughts about the credibility of the ownership. It starts at the top, and he's got to be willing to axe a guy who is a class guy on and off the field.

So tell Biggio that getting to the world series is not what it's all about. He'll look at you like you're nuts.

Herm Edwards to the press: "We PLAY the game to WIN."

McNair: please play the game to win. Pull the trigger. Drop the bomb. Call Ty from ABC Extreme Home Makeover. Do what it takes to win. Cheering is a natural bi-product of winning, or at least the possibility of winning.

I am going to respectfully disagree with the majority of what you say. For you to say we need to boo and not show up and dont buy the merchandise and put on the paper bags, we'll show them. If you go to the games, you root for the Texans just for a win, then you are missing the best part of football. Ask any Greenbay fan. And if you cant get that then the joke is on you.

Hey I am not saying I dont care Texans ever win, my Mondays would be a whole lot more enjoyable. It kills me. But i enjoy getting out of bed sunday mornings, watch sportcenter, bbq for the game and hanging out with my friends, win or loose. How would you like to be McNair who spent seven hundred million dollars for this team.

If you think that the true, hardcore, diehard, stick with your team no matter what-fan(me) would turn its back on it's team just cause it sucks, then you dont know what the definition of a fan is. Sorry.

For anyone who thinks McNair is lying to you just to take your money,think,he could have made it easy on himself and applied for the L.A. franchise. He would have gotten that a whole lot easier and wouldnt have been hit so hard on the franchise fee's.

I alson remember *****in about another owner of ours who was always in the teams biz and just needed to be an owner and now we are *****in cause this one isnt doing anything. just cant make some people happy.

Speedy
10-20-2005, 05:32 PM
You get booing when you play like you don't care. If you don't give the effort on the field, don't expect me to. If they played every game like they played Cincy and still lose every game , that's a whole lot different than the crap against Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Buffalo and Seattle. Having the problems they have is one thing, playing like a bad high school team is another.

Mr. McNair, put a competitive team on the field and you won't hear any boos. But if you continue to NOT address GLARING problems year after year then I don't see how you expect to be competitive, and I'm sorry, I'm not a lovable loser Cub fan. Yeah, I'll be there to support my team, but I WILL voice my displeasure. If that means sending letters, wearing paper sacks or booing, then so be it.

Kaiser Toro
10-20-2005, 05:35 PM
If I ate at my favorite steakhouse 5 times in a row and it was bad, do I keep going back for more?

If I was watching new episodes of "LOST" on TV and there were bad five times in a row, do I keep watching?

hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

I agree with your perplexed state. If Lost stinks the network just plugs in a new program. If the Texans leave it will be back to U of H vs. Rice for Houstonians for their local football fix.

GP
10-20-2005, 05:44 PM
TEXANRED:

I think you took my comments way out of context. I don't play the real fan vs. not real fan card. Never have, never will. I defend all of our rights to say whatever we wish and still be considered a fan. Heck, I get called more names on this board than anybody.

So I will summarize and condense:

1. Booing all the time is not acceptable. I never said we SHOULD go and BOO ALL THE TIME as you say I said.

2. I DID say that to expect fans to CHEER through the garbage is also not acceptable.

I think this whole thread is getting out of hand. Here's the deal: A reasonable person understands that 100% cheering and 100% booing are the same thing: Equally ignorant.

What I feel the Texans fans are being asked to do is to cheer EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT WARRANTED.

I CHEERED when Kris Brown tried to pick up the ball and score a TD. Normally, I would have BOOED him because he didn't secure the turnover. However, the situation WARRANTED a CHEER because we needed something spectacular to happen, and a kicker was willing to offer up his body to give the team a boost of confidence.

I BOO when I see Capers write in his notebook and give off this "worried father" look.

I BOO when it's 4th and inches and we punt...already down by three scores.

I CHEER when Peek jumps on top of the gang-tackled ball carrier because he wasn't stopping or slowing down to a walk at the end of the play.

So cheering and booing are acceptable. But for anybody, let alone the guy who is in charge of paying the coaches AND the players (McNair) says that "maybe" if we would cheer them more, we would see better results, then I have to scratch my head and wonder what scientific proof he has that faking enjoyment will bring about the desired changes.

TEXANRED
10-20-2005, 05:57 PM
Here is my last say on the booing. IMO, if you are going to boo the HOME team then you should stay home and let the real fans enjoy the game.

But again IMO

eriadoc
10-20-2005, 06:02 PM
I don't see the boos accomplishing anything. If you have something productive to add (to the game, not this thread), then please do so. Negativity is not going to accomplish anything that isn't already accomplished - aside from maybe making the booing individual have a bad Sunday. A certain amount of negative reinforcement can be beneficial, but this situation is far beyond that point. I'm not sure positive reinforcement will have any better effect on the team, but perhaps a few fans might leave in a slightly better state of mind.

I'm not telling people to do one or the other, but seriously - if you have nothing better to do than give yourself high blood pressure over a situation you know isn't going to be aided by booing, why boo? Or maybe they think booing will actually help? Beats me .....

mean mark8
10-20-2005, 06:20 PM
If the coaches call a run up the middle on 3rd and 15, I'm going to boo the call. If Carr runs out of bounds 3 yards behind the line scrimmage rather than throw it 4 yards out of bounds, I'm going to boo. Let's face it, if the play warrants it, I'm going to do it. When a puppy takes a dump on the floor, I don't praise it. Of course I still love the puppy and I will praise him like crazy when he fetches a ball and "makes good" outside. I agree with the guy who posted there are times to boo and other times not to boo. In the 4th year, we expect the team to have matured enough that there would be less booing and more cheering. My dog was pretty much fully trained in 1 year.

JustBonee
10-20-2005, 06:20 PM
Good read, a lot of soul searching in this thread .... what McNair said and what it really all means...??? .. Apparently he is getting an earful, and he felt it was time to respond. What else could he say at this point in his attempt to calm the fans? Not much.



So cheering and booing are acceptable. But for anybody, let alone the guy who is in charge of paying the coaches AND the players (McNair) says that "maybe" if we would cheer them more, we would see better results, then I have to scratch my head and wonder what scientific proof he has that faking enjoyment will bring about the desired changes.

... faking enjoyment? ..:rofl: (with you) .. love that.

The Mighty Texan
10-20-2005, 06:30 PM
Well the owner came out and said "We need the fans to do what they did in the past." Cheer and support our team." Sure, I buy it! But what we the fans need is to have the Texans do what they did in the past and thats' is to be competative and win! Capers has to come out an speak! He is the coach, with all due respect to the owner, "you did your job, you got us the Texans team." Now sit down shut up and listen! We want to hear what Capers has to say!

I love the Texans but what have they done for us to cheer?
Let review:
Let go Glenn, Sharper...etc.

Traded two first picks for Buchanon?? Not cheering! What has he done except get in the way? any INTs? NO!

We are 0-5 feel like a cheer? NO, feel like screaming!

Scoring ?Ha? Cheer? NO

Bad calls uhhh give me a break!

We are Undefeated in Battle Red Jerseys!!! Is that ALL we have to cheer for?? Better hope the Red Magic Jerseys are in working order!! uhhhh C

Cheer for the red jerseys!!!! The player in them better not let the fans down or we might booo!!! What a crock!! we want results not excuses! we hear plenty of them!

The Mighty Disgusted Texan!!

SESupergenius
10-20-2005, 07:06 PM
Absolutely not. Follow on question:

Do you (global "you", not SES) continue going, paying good money for bad food, and boo?
The analogy is that I can't boo the TV, nobody will hear me. I can just refuse to go. Now I paid for DirectTV for the year so there is no turning back. But I will not be purchasing Texans garb this year as I normally do. Besides, I'll never buy a player jersey again, they just don't stay around long enough to warrant it.

But If were at a theatrical play for instance and the actors were doing a horrible job, then I'd boo. If I went to see Linkin Park and the band was all out of tune, yep I'd boo.

Double Barrel
10-20-2005, 07:23 PM
I'll never buy a player jersey again, they just don't stay around long enough to warrant it.

Ain't that the truth! Let's play count the Sharper jerseys this Sunday!

Strange, he was good enough for the Texans last year to warrant his own battle red jersey (just last year!).... :hmmm:

I agree with much of this thread, especially as it relates to bonehead decisions by management.

But I'm still not going to quit the team. Criticize the h-e-double-hockey-sticks of 'em - YES! But quit - no.

It's my team, and it's the only football team I've got. idonno:

JustBonee
10-20-2005, 07:30 PM
Ain't that the truth! Let's play count the Sharper jerseys this Sunday!
I'll be in my white Sharper jersey at next week's Brownie game!

Runner
10-20-2005, 07:34 PM
Strange, he was good enough for the Texans last year to warrant his own battle red jersey (just last year!).... :hmmm:


There were a few people that were good enough for that mediocre team last year that couldn't/can't play for this lousy team this year.

Somebody missed something somewhere.

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 07:38 PM
Sharper was and still is a good player, but he is no longer great. The guy has slowed and we got rid of him at the right time. The problem is we did not find a leader before we did and then we let go of the only other veteran that this team would follow about two weeks later. The Aaron Glenn release (which he asked for) hurt this team immensely.

rmartin65
10-20-2005, 07:49 PM
The Aaron Glenn release (which he asked for) hurt this team immensely.
That sucked...

GP
10-20-2005, 08:03 PM
TEXANRED:

I live in the North part of Texas (Amarillo).

Some day I plan on making a trip to see a Texans game. Last year would have been a great chance, and I had actually planned to make a trip down for the Browns game...glad I didn't.

If I lived in Houston, and if I had been going to the games the past three years, I would have to say that I would NOT be going this year. I vote on things with my feet, and thus I would stay home and I would boo AND cheer at home while watching the Texans on TV. Purchasing a ticket, a hot dog, a coke, and a Texans souvenir during this season is not something I would do if I lived in Houston. The only way you get it through an owner's head that you as a fan deserve a better team, with better coaches who will at least field a competitive team, is to vote with your feet.

Keep purchasing tickets. Keep purchasing souvenirs from the Texans pro shop or the stadium itself. Keep it up. You are in essence stamping your approval on the team itself, the team that plays every Sunday. But that team we're accustomed to--the one that plays hard all game long--left the stadium in week 17 last season. They snapped because they were tired of gutting out wins despite the poor coaching and playcalling. They gave up, and they put on the good face for the fans during camp...but the veil has been lifted that was put over the team by the coaches, and the product is watchable at home on TV where you can cry without being seen, and where you don't have to hear the other team's fan laugh hysterically at you as you sit all decked out in Texans gear that's marked down to clearance prices at stores nationwide.

The almighty dollar, and the lack thereof, is what gets a businessman's attention. Once he sees the bottom line profit margin sink a little more each week, McNair will see the light. Heck, McNair probably already has seen the light. But I disagree with what he said. Nothing's going to breathe life back into the Capers era Texans team. It's as done as microwaved steak.

Thus, I feel no need to purchase Texans gear or make a trip down to Houston until I can see that McNair is FULLY committed to making the changes that he already knows he needs to make. Again: Losing is OK, but not even fielding a team that resembles an NFL-caliber team is appalling and a waste of time for everyone.

This is not "fair weather fan" attitude. It's logic and common sense, with a touch of self-respect thrown in for good measure. I'll still watch them on TV. I'll still hope they play competitive. But I absolutely, mercilessly hope to see more empty seats on TV, and I hope we only win enough games to at least be 1-15 or to at least secure a Top 3 draft spot.

Go Texans!

Coach C.
10-20-2005, 08:27 PM
Gpshafer you usually come with the meat, but the end of this post is crazy. I aggree that purchasing anything other than your tickets is the wrong thing to do if you are not in favor of how this team is doing. I also feel that it is the right of every fan to boo when ever they feel like it. The last part is my problem you should never want your team to lose. I dont and have never played the "fan" card, but every fan on this board wants the Texans to win.

The Mighty Texan
10-20-2005, 08:33 PM
Gpshafer you usually come with the meat, but the end of this post is crazy. I aggree that purchasing anything other than your tickets is the wrong thing to do if you are not in favor of how this team is doing. I also feel that it is the right of every fan to boo when ever they feel like it. The last part is my problem you should never want your team to lose. I dont and have never played the "fan" card, but every fan on this board wants the Texans to win.


Yes we Do! (Want to Win)


I get picked on by ALL who sees my Texan Hat... I still believe...

but reserve the right to Booo ...or boohoo

BattleRedGuy
10-20-2005, 09:54 PM
Wow, where to begin..
1. Mr. McNair stated the roof would be closed Sunday. Forecast high Sunday 78. Not all of the bad decisions are on the field this year.

2. If you are going to Boo the good guys, please do it from the friendly confines of someplace else. Most of your seatmates don't want to hear it and can use the extra room in the stands. If you want to make a statement, send your unused tickets to the Texans after the game.

3. If the Texans tried to contact coaches from other teams during the season, would that not be considered tampering?

4. I believe the Texans are $7 million under the cap.

5. I would not be surprised to see Casserly go before Capers, eventhough the time span for both may be short.

GP
10-20-2005, 10:02 PM
I want them to win just enough to not be 0-16, but I also do NOT want them to win so much that it saves Capers' job.

I know it sounds strange. But ponder it for awhile. Losing (now) is actually OK for two reasons: (1) Ensures Capers' dismissal, and hopefully other like-minded personnel ; (2) Ensures a Top 3 draft pick so we can get a stud o lineman.

Don't mistake me for someone that WANTS the team to implode. But at this point, with all of us in agreement that Capers should be dismissed...pulling out TOO many wins gives Capers a shot to stay.

My "Big Theory" is that last season's week 17 loss, at home against the Browns, was a breaking point by the players who were fed up with the play-it-close-and-keep-it-close-to-the-4th-quarter-so-we-can-have-a-shot-to-win-it Capers philosophy. My theory also is founded on the fact that our team was VERY competitive up until week 17, losing close games in the 4th quarter or overtime by a FG. Three full years of the play-it-close-and-keep-it-close-to-the-4th-quarter-so-we-can-have-a-shot-to-win-it Capers philosophy came crashing down during week 17, and what we're seeing right now is a team of players who are unable to play for this coach any longer.

They are going through the motions. They're tired of being the "company man" and tired of being the good soldier when they know the boss (Capers) is no longer relevant in regards to today's NFL standards. And you know what? They are actually being stand up people about it, and doggone it if they aren't being respectful and honorable the whole time about it. I mean, for them to not flat out punch Capers in the gut right now or to not make faces at him is speaking volumes about their character. Any other team (Raiders) would have 10-20 players dissing the HC right now: Publicly AND Privately.

So, yeah...I am all for the Texans going anywhere from 1-15 to 3-13, but also for them to NOT pull out a miracle season because it would be a blow to the FUTURE of this team. Hand the ball off to DD 100 times a game. Let Chad Stunley and Kris Brown kick the ball 20 times each a game. Keep Carr safe. Keep DD safe. And just get to the draft with a Top 3 pick. And if they choose anything other than the top rated o lineman...then the gig is up.

Kaiser Toro
10-20-2005, 10:03 PM
Wow, where to begin..
1. Mr. McNair stated the roof would be closed Sunday. Forecast high Sunday 78. Not all of the bad decisions are on the field this year.

2. If you are going to Boo the good guys, please do it from the friendly confines of someplace else. Most of your seatmates don't want to hear it and can use the extra room in the stands. If you want to make a statement, send your unused tickets to the Texans after the game.

3. If the Texans tried to contact coaches from other teams during the season, would that not be considered tampering?

4. I believe the Texans are $7 million under the cap.

5. I would not be surprised to see Casserly go before Capers, eventhough the time span for both may be short.

You have got some moxie coming in here and posting some intuitive thoughts. :)

Texans_Chick
10-20-2005, 10:17 PM
Bob McNair only said what he could say. He acknowledged in so many words what the situation was and asked us to hang in there. He's being a good owner--if he just blasts the coach, what sort of awesome coach would want to come to a rebuilding situation with a crazy owner?

He saved football in town, he is not being cheap, he gave us a great stadium--what do you want Bob to do right here, right now, suit up?

As for people who really feel the need to boo the team, I've pretty much said my point of view on this:

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=178607#post178607

But I will add this.

If bad stuff happens, I don't expect folks to be happy about it.

But I think booing is traitorous. That might be a bit strong, but that's how I see it.

trai·tor·ous
adj.
Having the character of a traitor; disloyal.
Constituting treason: a traitorous act. See synonyms at faithless.

If it makes the other team happy, I ain't gonna do it. Ever. Ever. Ever.

No aid and comfort to the enemy. I am not about to make Colts, Jags, Titans etc happy. Ever. Ever. Ever.

I don't want to see another team's player raising his arms up repeatedly (ala Bullock, I think, in the last game) urging our fans to boo louder in OUR house.

I believe that booing is counterproductive to the long term success of our team:

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=179116#post179116

I know people get sick of the whole real fan/not fan kinda of threads, but I cannot comprehend why booing is seen as being helpful in creating the sort of team in the future that you want to see. Usually when people try to explain their way of saying why they are a true fan of the team who likes to boo, their post just turns into the illogical rambling written equivalent of bitter beer face.

But don't ask me what I REALLY think. :texflag:

eriadoc
10-20-2005, 10:26 PM
Last home game, one of the Titans started raising his arms up to encourage the booing that was going on. It was great. I shook my head disgustedly at the people that were booing.

Booing accomplishes NOTHING except making you look like an --- (insert your own profanity here). I repeat, it accomplishes

NOTHING.

If you want to actually accomplish something, boycott merchandise, concessions, and/or ticketing. Hit them where it hurts - the pocketbook. Booing doesn't help a thing. To the poster who used the dog analogy -- if it were only that simple. You can boo all you want, for 16 games, and nothing more will be accomplished than what already is. Capers will be fired whether you show up to boo another down or not. The team will retool whether you show up to boo or not. No amount of booing by you or anyone else will change the course of the future here. The message has been sent - McNair gets it. We're unhappy. The level of our unhappiness and level of seriousness to winning will better be measured in dollars and cents than in decibels.

LoneStarState
10-20-2005, 11:25 PM
I was in Ausitn last night and one local channel's sportscaster said that McNair had met privately with the coaches prior to meeting with the fans. Has anyone heard about the meeting with coaches?

ATX_Texan
10-20-2005, 11:33 PM
I feel that this season is over and nothing good can come from Capers hanging on until the end of year. From what I can gather the reasons for keeping Capers are:

1.) It would reflect badly on the Texans to fire Capers during the season and it would make it harder for them to get a coach for next year. Coaches in the NFL that don’t win expect to be fired. The Miami Dolphins had a similar situation last season. They made the right decision and had their Coach removed in mid season. Because of the ownership, talent, and location the Dolphins had no problem getting one of the top coaching candidates in Saban. I think it worse to leave Capers as a lame duck coach when everyone already knows that his time is over. Before anyone who feels sorry for Capers, please realize that his contract is guaranteed, unlike those of the players. Therefore, he will be drawing his salary regardless of where he is.
2.) It is bad for the assistant coaches. It is worse to leave them working under a lame duck coach. If we promote one of the assistants to HC, it will be a cannot lose situation for this man. At the very least, he will be able to get experience as a head coach. If the team is bad, no one will blame him. If the team plays better, it will only reflect positively on the new man. At the very least, you give them more control over their futures as opposed to leaving them tied to Capers.
3.) It will ruin the season. The season was lost before it began. This team gave up on
Capers the middle of last season. At this time, losses don’t matter because draft positioning the real priority. The Dolphins did not cease to exist when their coach left at midseason and neither will the Texans.
4.) The players will suffer because they know the season is lost. The players already know Capers is done so there is little incentive for them to follow his orders. When the axe falls on Capers, they will know that the time for change has begun and hopefully it will motivate them to start worrying about their own jobs.
5.) Fans will give up on the team if they think the season is over. This situation is already happening. The “true blue” fans will not give up on the team no matter what. So, they will still be there. The fans who only show up for the “experience” of tailgating won’t care if Capers is still in charge. The band wagon fans have long since abandoned this sinking ship. The fans who complain about Capers and want to see changes will surely stay away if Capers remains. I for one would be much more interested in this team if Capers was let go. It removes all doubt that he will not be here next year and that the business of rebuilding is ready to begin. I know what a Capers’ team looks like now and what it will look like next month and in December: a complete disaster.

mean mark8
10-20-2005, 11:49 PM
If you want to actually accomplish something, boycott merchandise, concessions, and/or ticketing. Hit them where it hurts - the pocketbook. Booing doesn't help a thing. To the poster who used the dog analogy -- if it were only that simple. You can boo all you want, for 16 games, and nothing more will be accomplished than what already is. Capers will be fired whether you show up to boo another down or not. The team will retool whether you show up to boo or not. No amount of booing by you or anyone else will change the course of the future here. The message has been sent - McNair gets it. We're unhappy. The level of our unhappiness and level of seriousness to winning will better be measured in dollars and cents than in decibels.

Yes, if it were only that simple. No one show up to the game. All PSL holders who forked over even more money for this year's season tickets, just blow off the game. Give your tickets away, it's only money. Every game they announce the number of tickets sold for the game which is not even close to the number of people in the seats. Don't boo, just burn your tickets like they were hundred dollar bills. :wacko:

TxDavid
10-21-2005, 12:52 AM
Wow, where to begin..
1. Mr. McNair stated the roof would be closed Sunday. Forecast high Sunday 78. Not all of the bad decisions are on the field this year.



Roof is going to be closed because of the noise factor. They want the stadium to be loud

Speedy
10-21-2005, 01:21 AM
I just love how everybody tries to tell everybody how to be a fan. Why don't we leave that up to the individual?

And for the roof....man....they still can't get that right. The equation for that is real simple.

Hot and/or rain = roof closed
EVERYTHING ELSE = OPEN

Why is it so freaking hard?? If you can't manage the freaking roof, how the hell are you going to manage a football team? :brickwall

aj.
10-21-2005, 07:49 AM
Roof is going to be closed because of the noise factor. They want the stadium to be loud

Why, so the boos will resonate more in a 3/4 full stadium?

They established a roof policy which made sense (mid-80's and above=closed) and then they still don't follow it. It's going to be a beautiful fall day in the upper 70's. <queue Lombardi> What the hell is going on around here?

JustBonee
10-21-2005, 08:36 AM
Why, so the boos will resonate more in a 3/4 full stadium?
:rofl: .. Good one aj

eriadoc
10-21-2005, 08:44 AM
Yes, if it were only that simple. No one show up to the game. All PSL holders who forked over even more money for this year's season tickets, just blow off the game. Give your tickets away, it's only money. Every game they announce the number of tickets sold for the game which is not even close to the number of people in the seats. Don't boo, just burn your tickets like they were hundred dollar bills. :wacko:


Well, the "tickets" portion of that was directed at non-season ticket holders. As a PSL/season-ticket holder myself, the money is spent. I will continue to go to the games and squeeze whatever value I can from the money that has already been spent. I will not buy concessions or merchandise, however. And I won't be booing while I'm there, because it quite simply does not accomplish anything. My boos are monetary in nature.

Runner
10-21-2005, 09:18 AM
Rather than constant cheering or booing, I like to cheer the good and be silent for the bad (especially bad effort). If the team doesn't care enough to put in the effort, why should I? However, since are fans seem to be more passionate about the game then some players, I know they'll be hearing the boos too. They are expecting it. If the team doesn't give us a bouleversement on the field, they are sure to get one from the crowd.

rittenhouserobz
10-21-2005, 12:42 PM
Shame on you Mr. McNair. I have been cheering the Texans for the last three years. I didn't question the "questionable" moves. I just said "They must know what they are doing. They are paid to do this for a living." The heart and soul of this team was lost last December and did not return. It went o other NFL teams. Theres nobody to blame, but the coaches and gm for that. I will continue to support the team, but pointing the finger at the fans is not exactly the right way to gain fan support.

yaboycm
10-21-2005, 01:03 PM
IMHO we have a good owner, and Leinart ain't all that great.

Please dude. He has won back to back championships. Ask Oklahoma. Ask Notre Dame.

Vinny
10-21-2005, 01:08 PM
Why, so the boos will resonate more in a 3/4 full stadium?

They established a roof policy which made sense (mid-80's and above=closed) and then they still don't follow it. It's going to be a beautiful fall day in the upper 70's. <queue Lombardi> What the hell is going on around here?More dissapointing decision making by our football braintrust.

Bubbajwp
10-21-2005, 01:24 PM
The season isnt even half way over and I already hate Matt Leinart.

Kaiser Toro
10-21-2005, 01:33 PM
The season isnt even half way over and I already hate Matt Leinart.

Yeah, Leinart ain't gonna help us win any games this year.

Porky
10-21-2005, 02:31 PM
More dissapointing decision making by our football braintrust.


Isn't "braintrust" an oxymoron when Houston and football are also part of equation? :tv:

My very quick takes - roof closed on a gorgous afternoon? Tell you what. If it is closed, that might be the last straw with me. I have seen every snap this team has ever taken. If the roof is closed, that might change. Why the hell did we waste taxpayer dollars having a stadium with a retractable roof if they are going to close it when it is 75 or so at kickoff? Remember, it was originally designed as a total open air stadium. The roof was added solely for the Rodeo. As long is it's not over 85-88, or pouring rain, then keep the roof open. Football was meant to be played in the elements. Heck, we can go play in the dome if this is what will make them happy. If they think a little noise is all it will take to turn the tide in this game, then....well see my original comment above.


Booing - Booing is the opposite of cheering. Remember, fan is short for fanatic. This usually decribes somebody who is passionate about the team. Passion = emotion. If there is good emotion that = cheers. When there is bad emotion that = boos. The players get paid more in a year than some folks earn in a career. If a little booing bothers them, or they have to be "pumped up" by the fans in order to win, then I think they are pathetic, and should go find a career at a car wash.

Mcnair - I still haven't seen all of his comments. I have been too busy rooting for another team that actually has heart to worry about this pile of dog doodoo. From what I do know, it seems to me he is in a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation. Seems to me I saw people on these boards saying Mcnair should come out and say something to the fans. So he does, then people say he is blaming the fans. Seems like he is catching it from both sides. I don't think he gets off scot free, but let's at least wait until the offseason, and see what moves get made. If the wrong moves are made, then we can jump on him. Not now.

Speedy
10-21-2005, 07:32 PM
Isn't "braintrust" an oxymoron when Houston and football are also part of equation? :tv:

My very quick takes - roof closed on a gorgous afternoon? Tell you what. If it is closed, that might be the last straw with me. I have seen every snap this team has ever taken. If the roof is closed, that might change. Why the hell did we waste taxpayer dollars having a stadium with a retractable roof if they are going to close it when it is 75 or so at kickoff? Remember, it was originally designed as a total open air stadium. The roof was added solely for the Rodeo. As long is it's not over 85-88, or pouring rain, then keep the roof open. Football was meant to be played in the elements. Heck, we can go play in the dome if this is what will make them happy. If they think a little noise is all it will take to turn the tide in this game, then....well see my original comment above.


Booing - Booing is the opposite of cheering. Remember, fan is short for fanatic. This usually decribes somebody who is passionate about the team. Passion = emotion. If there is good emotion that = cheers. When there is bad emotion that = boos. The players get paid more in a year than some folks earn in a career. If a little booing bothers them, or they have to be "pumped up" by the fans in order to win, then I think they are pathetic, and should go find a career at a car wash.

Mcnair - I still haven't seen all of his comments. I have been too busy rooting for another team that actually has heart to worry about this pile of dog doodoo. From what I do know, it seems to me he is in a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation. Seems to me I saw people on these boards saying Mcnair should come out and say something to the fans. So he does, then people say he is blaming the fans. Seems like he is catching it from both sides. I don't think he gets off scot free, but let's at least wait until the offseason, and see what moves get made. If the wrong moves are made, then we can jump on him. Not now.EXCELLENT POST!!!! :thumbup