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View Full Version : With Carr picked-up, let's start to brainstorm


Sudds
10-18-2005, 12:59 PM
1) If we grab reggie Bush with our first pick next year, where would we play him? WR, RB, Roving offensive weapon? No matter what, if Bush is available to us in the draft, we take him.

2) Do we make the off-season a time to completely rebuild the Oline? Keep Pitts and clean house? I think it should be the priority.

3) I think our biggest concern is our defense. We can't stop anyone, we can't shed blocks, and we can't cover man-to-man very well. We're in trouble here.

4) Think positive...with AJ out for a few, Gaff is getting a lot of reps and work in. Suddenly he is our legitiment #2 WR. If we can add Bush, another WR, and rebuild the Oline, we may have somthing. Carr is solid and he showed me that Sunday night. We'd be crazy setting him free. If we can protect him, he can do damage, but I'd also like to see us expand the offense and go on the aggressive side. But without enough time to throw, we simply cannot open it up.

HardKnockTexan
10-18-2005, 01:04 PM
It would be a HUGE mistake not to get the best Left Tackle available. Bush will be a great player but Runningbacks are easily found in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. Bush could end up being a Marshall Faulk type player but Dominick Davis is a decent back. Our line needs the most help and deserves the most attention.

Hervoyel
10-18-2005, 01:06 PM
Bush could end up being a Marshall Faulk type. Give Domanick Davis a monster line though and you'll never miss Bush. It's all about the line.

Bring on a LT.

texan279
10-18-2005, 01:08 PM
Why are some wanting to draft Bush with our 1st pick? With no O line, we have no passing game, which makes it that much harder to run when you can't throw the ball. Our first several picks should be directed at LT, O line, and maybe TE depending on Joppru.

Fldvldog
10-18-2005, 01:18 PM
Don't make the mistake again...draft 'Brick...

eriadoc
10-18-2005, 01:36 PM
1) If we grab reggie Bush with our first pick next year, where would we play him? WR, RB, Roving offensive weapon? No matter what, if Bush is available to us in the draft, we take him.

2) Do we make the off-season a time to completely rebuild the Oline? Keep Pitts and clean house? I think it should be the priority.

3) I think our biggest concern is our defense. We can't stop anyone, we can't shed blocks, and we can't cover man-to-man very well. We're in trouble here.

4) Think positive...with AJ out for a few, Gaff is getting a lot of reps and work in. Suddenly he is our legitiment #2 WR. If we can add Bush, another WR, and rebuild the Oline, we may have somthing. Carr is solid and he showed me that Sunday night. We'd be crazy setting him free. If we can protect him, he can do damage, but I'd also like to see us expand the offense and go on the aggressive side. But without enough time to throw, we simply cannot open it up.


1. Bush is not a priority for this offense, and you go on to make that point in your subsequent comments.

2. If there is a franchise-caliber LT available in the 1st round, we have to take it. Franchise LTs don't get released from teams. We'll never see one unless we draft and develop one.

3. I don't think it's our biggest concern .. I think they're pretty much 1a and 1b at this point. A solid LB in round 2 would be big, or a DL.

4. There's nothing sudden about Gaffney. He's always been a solid #2 guy, but for some reason, this coaching staff insists on having Bradford out there. Gaffney's production has been good when he's given the opportunities. He'll never be a #1 guy on any team, but he's just fine for what we need. Again, no Bush please. While I don't doubt a player of Bush's ability might help this offense, it won't do so if the trenches are not fortified first.

J-Man
10-18-2005, 02:11 PM
With Carr's release off the table I truly believe the only viable option is to bolster the O-line. Top pick 2 picks should be best available OL guys and with the 3rd pick take a HARD look at best TE on the board or make that position a priority in Free Agency. I think the front office clearly let some high quality OL guys slip away during free agency this last season and once that is fixed then move on to the defense.

I think Mark Schlereth said things best yesterday on NFL Network...the Texans built their offense from the outside-in and that just doesn't work. They have workable weapons with Carr, DD, AJ but they can't pass protect or open holes for the running game, and no pass protection equals no balls to AJ.

HeHateMe
10-18-2005, 02:26 PM
I say we pull a Marshall Faulk type deal and TRADE Domanick Davis and some others for 1st rd pick, that way we can get both:

D'Brickshaw and Reggie Bush. :fishing:

I was thinking the same thing this morning. After what I saw during the Notre Dame game, Bush is the best player on USC. He is going to be the next Marshall Faulk. Why let Bush go when we can trade Davis and get a couple of picks or free agents for him. Dominick is a proven back, he can run, and catch. Problem is, do we go out and get free agent leadership on the line, and draft defense after Bush or vise versa, draft O-line then get a free agent D. Either way, Casserly (if he is around) is bound to mess that up.

Or my ultimate scenario would be the Texans get #1 overall, draft Lienart, trade down to get the #2,3, or 4 spot (one of those teams will definatly need a new QB) and pick up another 2nd rounder and a third rounder for the next year 07 depending how bad the other team wants the #1 overall selection.

F-minus67
10-18-2005, 02:34 PM
D'Brick had a knee injury a couple of weeks ago, but after the last game where he dominated the RE so his injury is far behind him. The only problem besides that is that he can't seem to keep a lot of weight on. He started at 295lbs and end in the 260lbs area as a junior. But if he gets a good nutritionist and lifting coach he could probably say in the 300lbs area as a pro, with no lose in speed or quickness.

infantrycak
10-18-2005, 02:37 PM
Why let Bush go when we can trade Davis and get a couple of picks or free agents for him. Dominick is a proven back, he can run, and catch.

1st Bush isn't Marshall Faulk at least he hasn't proven any ability to run in between the tackles. In any event (not that saying this ever does any good) trades are very rare in the NFL and for the most part because of the salary cap need to be done at the tail end of contracts. DD just got a new contract with $4 or 5 mil up front. ALL of that money would go on the Texans cap this year if he was traded. And what team is going to trade a 1st for DD when they could just draft Laurence Maroney, DeAngelo Williams, etc. with the pick they have?

J-Man
10-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Bottom line is that with the amount of quality RBs available via the draft or FA you will never get top price for your guy in a trade unless he is one of the top 3 talents.

DD could be a very servicable weapon for us if we build a good O Line. He's not a world beater but he is a very good multi-purpose back. For us to pick up a high draft pick RB he would clearly have to be someone like Adrian Peterson (assuming he continues to perform at an elite level and remains injury free).

By far our best bet (for the moment) is to hold what we have and make the best picks we can at that position.

HardKnockTexan
10-18-2005, 02:57 PM
What are the health concerns with Brick and should we shy away because of them? What other can't miss LT prospects are out there?

1. D'Brickashaw Ferguson Virginia 6-5 295 n/a
2. Marcus McNeill Auburn 6-9 337 4.97
3. Eric Winston Miami (FL) 6-7 310 n/a
4. Jonathan Scott Texas 6-7 310 n/a
5. Daryn Colledge Boise St. 6-5 298 n/a
6. Jeremy Trueblood Boston College 6-9 330 n/a
7. Andrew Whitworth L.S.U. 6-7 325 n/a
8. Jabari Levey South Carolina 6-6 312 n/a
9. Adam Stenavich Michigan 6-5 317 n/a
10. Troy Reddick Auburn 6-5 335 n/a
11. Ryan O'Callaghan California 6-7 340 n/a
12. Jami Hightower Texas A&M 6-4 355 n/a
13. Zach Strief Northwestern 6-7 335 n/a
14. Travis Leffew Louisville 6-4 301 n/a
15. Albert Toeaina Tennessee 6-6 350 n/a
16. Joe Toledo Washington 6-6 290 n/a
17. E.J. Whitley Texas Tech 6-7 302 n/a
18. Tre' Stallings Ole Miss 6-4 317 n/a
19. Mark LeVoir Notre Dame 6-7 315 n/a
20. Taitusi Lutui Southern Cal 6-6 370 n/a

Taken from: http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/ot.html

TheOgre
10-18-2005, 03:00 PM
O-line has been our biggest issue since day 1. Lets get a stud LT and never look back.

Texas
10-18-2005, 03:06 PM
I think that 1st pick we need to take reggie bush. Cant let that kind of talent pass up. Also Linemen rarely ever get drafted 1st round. So second and 3rd round we take a crack at linemen and also look for one more in the free agency. Also in the FA I think we need to look for a play maker tight end who can block but also catch and go and a few people to boost up our defense. Maybe a better pass rushing DL. Thats only my opinion

tsip
10-18-2005, 03:10 PM
"It's all about the line"

...Amen, brother--a good OL can make a so-so RB/QB look like All-Pros, while a bad line can make All-Pro RB/QB look like 'mince meat!'

Cjeremy635
10-18-2005, 03:22 PM
Honestly, it scares the bejesus out of me that some of you would even ponder the thought of not drafting a good LT in the 1st round given the numerous demands on this board and what you have seen every Sunday from our line. My concern is, and listen closely, do we have the ability to "develope" a player into a lineman of franchise caliber? I ask that because we don't seem to make good decisions with the ones we have, even the mediocre ones, with respect to blocking assignments and so on. Just a thought to kick around for a bit. I have no doubt that an O lineman is what we need but we need a coach that can help push him to his potential. :tomato:

El Tejano
10-18-2005, 04:26 PM
My suggestion isn't that we don't draft a LT but that we acquire a proven highly regarded experienced LT, then go after a play maker with a the later pick we get. I don't want anymore projects, I don't want to put the fate of our season or our franchise QB in the hands of an inexperienced rookie right now. I want an immediate impact on the line.

Gunbuny
10-18-2005, 04:36 PM
Bush could end up being a Marshall Faulk type. Give Domanick Davis a monster line though and you'll never miss Bush. It's all about the line.

Bring on a LT

Are ya nutz? Davis gets 1,000 yd season inspite of our O-line. Think if he had the luxury of a good one? The guy could put up Barry Sanders-like numbers!!!! Carr Could possibly be wiping his A** with manning if he had a line that protected him and an offense that allowed him to think for himself (audibles people) Unlike Manning, Carr is not a sitting duck in the pocket. Manning gives up weak sacks because my one-legged grandmother is more mobile. The 1st 3 rds of the draft should be devoted to Offensive linemen NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :brickwall Our scouts should not look at anything but O-Linemen

HardKnockTexan
10-18-2005, 04:41 PM
For what it's worth...Sean Salisbury just said IF the Texans pick up David's contract then they should draft Bush.

I'm guessing this was recorded before Carr got his option picked up. I also dont agree with taking Bush...

Blake
10-18-2005, 04:42 PM
My suggestion isn't that we don't draft a LT but that we acquire a proven highly regarded experienced LT, then go after a play maker with a the later pick we get. I don't want anymore projects, I don't want to put the fate of our season or our franchise QB in the hands of an inexperienced rookie right now. I want an immediate impact on the line.

Do you know any highly regarded experienced LT's that will be a free agent next year?

Just take the rookie, and have your left tackle for the next 10-15 years.

Huge
10-18-2005, 04:43 PM
1) If we grab reggie Bush with our first pick next year, where would we play him? WR, RB, Roving offensive weapon? No matter what, if Bush is available to us in the draft, we take him.

2) Do we make the off-season a time to completely rebuild the Oline? Keep Pitts and clean house? I think it should be the priority.

3) I think our biggest concern is our defense. We can't stop anyone, we can't shed blocks, and we can't cover man-to-man very well. We're in trouble here.

4) Think positive...with AJ out for a few, Gaff is getting a lot of reps and work in. Suddenly he is our legitiment #2 WR. If we can add Bush, another WR, and rebuild the Oline, we may have somthing. Carr is solid and he showed me that Sunday night. We'd be crazy setting him free. If we can protect him, he can do damage, but I'd also like to see us expand the offense and go on the aggressive side. But without enough time to throw, we simply cannot open it up.

1. IF you draft him (and it'd be a mistake if you did so), then you collect game tape of every college game he's played in and use him in the same fashion. Line him up strictly as a RB and he's not going to be near as effective.

2. If you think re-building the offensive line during the off-season is the priority (as it should be), why would you draft Bush?

3. Defenses can be built a lot quicker than offenses. There will be time for them to come around. What you want is to have both executing properly at the same time. Since both aren't right now and it'll take the offense longer to come around, you start on the offense now...defense later.

4. Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Bush and a 3rd WR (or even better, a really good TE), are useless if there's no OL.

I think a problem many are falling into is that they expect all of these things to be fixed by next July. It's simply not going to happen.

Why let Bush go when we can trade Davis and get a couple of picks or free agents for him. Dominick is a proven back, he can run, and catch.
If Davis can do all that, why would you trade him? You're not going to get anything in return that will net Reggie Bush even if you were able to trade him.

I think that 1st pick we need to take reggie bush. Cant let that kind of talent pass up. Also Linemen rarely ever get drafted 1st round. So second and 3rd round we take a crack at linemen and also look for one more in the free agency. Also in the FA I think we need to look for a play maker tight end who can block but also catch and go and a few people to boost up our defense. Maybe a better pass rushing DL. Thats only my opinion

2005:
4 OLs drafted in the 1st round.

2004:
3 OLs drafted in the 1st round.

2003:
4 OLs drafted in the 1st round.

2002:
5 OLs drafted in the 1st round.

2001:
4 OLs drafted in the 1st round.

Take a look around the league at the elite OTs and look where they were drafted. Most of them will come from the top half of the 1st round (some in the top 5).

This team needs to get back to the identity they were trying to establish with their first two picks in the expansion draft (Boselli and Young). Those guys didn't pan out and the team forgot/ignored what they were trying to establish from the beginning.

Texas_Thrill
10-18-2005, 04:43 PM
"It's all about the line"

...Amen, brother--a good OL can make a so-so RB/QB look like All-Pros, while a bad line can make All-Pro RB/QB look like 'mince meat!'



.....just ask EMMITT SMITH.

Vinny
10-18-2005, 04:45 PM
The Texans haven't picked up anything yet...but I'm sure they will . Also, Dom Davis cannot get a 1st round pick...that's bonkers. Edge James and Shaun Alexander couldn't....Dom isn't in their class of back.

Blake
10-18-2005, 04:46 PM
For what it's worth...Sean Salisbury just said IF the Texans pick up David's contract then they should draft Bush.

I'm guessing this was recorded before Carr got his option picked up. I also dont agree with taking Bush...

Sean is a moron. Bush shouldnt even be considered for us at the top 3.

LT D'brick
LT Eric Winston
QB Matt Leinart
LT Jonathan Scott

Then I would consider Bush.

El Tejano
10-18-2005, 04:50 PM
Winston is a drive killer.

disaacks3
10-18-2005, 04:50 PM
IF we get the #1,we can draft Bush.....but ONLY for another team's picks!

The Texans may be in an enviable position, they may take the #1 for another team and turn it into LOTS of good picks.

How does multiple high picks sound? Why get only ONE OT, when you can get 2 or more? How about a Stud OT AND a Stud DT?

We don't need Matt Lineart yet, nor Vince Young. If somebody else is willing to trade top dollar for us to get the guy they want FOR them, we do it!

Even Casserly may not be able to screw up our picks if we give him enough shots at it! :yahoo:

HomeBred_Texan
10-18-2005, 04:54 PM
I say we pull a Marshall Faulk type deal and TRADE Domanick Davis and some others for 1st rd pick, that way we can get both:

D'Brickshaw and Reggie Bush. :fishing:
I agree, no fishing here. If we get to draft that high, we don't need to use it on a LT. We can always get that in the free agent market. Either we get Leinart or Bush. And I dont care which...

infantrycak
10-18-2005, 04:58 PM
I agree, no fishing here. If we get to draft that high, we don't need to use it on a LT. We can always get that in the free agent market. Either we get Leinart or Bush. And I dont care which...

Exactly where is this LT market y'all are shopping at? Care to name the last above average LT that was just let go into free agency?

We need to start a Madden/FantasyLand forum where cap rules and reality just don't apply.

touttail
10-18-2005, 05:04 PM
It's all about the line. Bring on a LT.

I agree Herv! i had Barry Sanders on my fantasy team. Detroit had a decent line, he was getting 10-15 TDs every year. They lost some linemen and had a bad line for two years. Barry didn't do worth a damn. Got like two TDs per year. It was the pits!

bobby 119C :brickwall

hadaad
10-18-2005, 06:45 PM
1) If we grab reggie Bush with our first pick next year, where would we play him? WR, RB, Roving offensive weapon? No matter what, if Bush is available to us in the draft, we take him.

2) Do we make the off-season a time to completely rebuild the Oline? Keep Pitts and clean house? I think it should be the priority.




I think points 1 and 2 conflict each other. If line is *the* priority and a player like Ferguson is available, how can we pass up on him?

Wolf
10-18-2005, 06:59 PM
The Texans haven't picked up anything yet...but I'm sure they will . Also, Dom Davis cannot get a 1st round pick...that's bonkers. Edge James and Shaun Alexander couldn't....Dom isn't in their class of back.


thanks Vinny voice of reason there.

Also what makes us thing Bush would do any good here at this point...Did anyone notice the Seattle game.. 8 man fronts(like every team is doing right now to us or they jump into the cover 2 being we don't have a legit NFL TE)
.. I don't think Bush would be good enough getting around that.

keyfro
10-18-2005, 07:21 PM
you build a team through the lines...especially if we're switching to a 4-3 defense...i would spend every pick we have on both sides of the line...i might spend two day two picks on skilled positions but that's it...every pick needs to be dedicated to either o-lineman or 4-3 ends

Double Barrel
10-18-2005, 07:22 PM
If the offensive line is not THE priority in the off-season, I swear my head will explode. :bomb:

Suffering through this season had better end up in smart decisions with the high draft picks we end up with next year.

How can a bunch of forum monkeys understand the most important aspect of football - controlling the trenches - and our front office be this clueless after four years?

Medicore QBs and RBs have been successful because of good OLs. In reverse order, you could put Joe Montana himself behind our current line and he'd look just as bad as DC (maybe worse since Joe Cool wasn't known for his running abilities).

Control the line, control the game. It's simple.

I really hope our new coaching staff (coming soon: January 2006) has a better understanding of football fundamentals than the current regime. :challenge

Honoring Earl 34
10-18-2005, 07:48 PM
:texflag: Most teams that have a good LT ... draft him and show him the money . Their that valuable .

Erratic Assassin
10-18-2005, 08:07 PM
1) If we grab reggie Bush with our first pick next year, where would we play him? WR, RB, Roving offensive weapon? No matter what, if Bush is available to us in the draft, we take him.

Can he play offensive line? Unless someone gets it through his thick skull that we need an offensive line we aren't going anywhere.

Erratic Assassin
10-18-2005, 08:15 PM
my ultimate scenario would be the Texans get #1 overall, draft Lienart

Does he come with a force-field or is he especially good at throwing while lying flat on his back?

dat_boy_yec
10-18-2005, 08:43 PM
I agree, no fishing here. If we get to draft that high, we don't need to use it on a LT. We can always get that in the free agent market. Either we get Leinart or Bush. And I dont care which...
I disagree I think you should use it to fill your needs. I mean look at what we did in the free agency last year. Oh what was that we didnt do anything good. We could have had Pace, but the front office messed that up. I think we need to take care of our needs first and then maybe we could waste a pick on something we dont really need.

Vinny
10-18-2005, 09:23 PM
We could have had Pace, but the front office messed that up. Not feeling the need to be too accurate I see...

Wolf
10-18-2005, 09:30 PM
I disagree I think you should use it to fill your needs. I mean look at what we did in the free agency last year. Oh what was that we didnt do anything good. We could have had Pace, but the front office messed that up. I think we need to take care of our needs first and then maybe we could waste a pick on something we dont really need.

so you say give up 2 first rounders here? how does that feel our need(s).

I'd say use the 1st this year for some OL and depending on where we draft/what we need use the 2nd on another needed position

Honoring Earl 34
10-18-2005, 10:19 PM
:texflag: I'm not only for drafting an OT , I'm for drafting the best OL on the board with our next pick . The problem is we don't need the next Wand , Weary or Brown . We need cornerstone material .

If we don't go this route does anyone know if the invisible mans coming out early .

Scribe
10-18-2005, 10:35 PM
We definitely need to look O-Line but I'm wondering whether the quality and depth avaialable at LT for the next draft may allow us to consider trading down a few spaces to nab extra picks and still get a solid LT with our first pick. We need extra picks, because we've got needs in a lot of area.

OzzO
10-18-2005, 10:49 PM
Seems like all are in agreement (to an extent) that O-line is the focus for this draft whether it's first round, first day, or later. Guess it's going to depend on what the drop off is between players... and no projects - unless we really get a coaching staff that CAN mold players and not make pretty pictures in a note pad.

Personally, I think we do have the "trifecta" to an extent, to mirror another Texas team when they first started on their run, it's just a matter of having the line to utilize the three (and a few others) to meet and surpass their proposed potential. However, to utilize their potential, that means playing to their strengths... not trying to cram a phlosophy down their throat that they're not able to adapt to due to previous experience or body mass.

I vote a strong draft with a focus on O-line along with a "front 7" D-line look as needed (depending if we keep the 3-4 or go to to 4-3), then we look at some defensive secondary or just some all around depth (for those needed projects).

*edit*
... and NO TRADING AWAY multiple picks for the "chosen one" this year.

GP
10-18-2005, 11:32 PM
If Carr's option is picked up....

It's a clear sign what we'll spend our pick on: O line.

And that's just fine by me.

You do NOT allow your top o linemen to leave in free agency. Finding a worthy o lineman in free agency is a rare thing...it doesn't happen very often because teams know that o linemen are a precious commodity. You just keep them from getting too fat each offseason, and they return each year and produce the same results year after year after year. The o line position, once solidified, is about as sure-of-a-thing as it gets. Get a bunch of beefy guys together who are all talented and gel together...and then turn them loose. They're not prima donnas and don't need their ego's stroked.

I agree with Double Barrel, and I agree with the other poster who said that IF we don't grab the highest rated o line, or if we don't concentrate on o line in this year's draft...my head will explode.

If this season is worth anything, it's going to once-and-for-all show that the pieced together jig-saw puzzle o line was not a good idea, and it won't work...EVER.

Please, for the love of Pete: Take the HIGHEST-rated o lineman on the board. No trading down. No trading to get that sleeper defensive end. Just grab the biggest, beefiest, fastest-footed and best techniqued o lineman that's available. Please Uncle Charley, no magic tricks this year. Save it for 2007.

GET THE BIG BLOB HIGHEST ON THE BOARD, WHOEVER HE MIGHT BE.

Hervoyel
10-19-2005, 12:24 AM
Bush could end up being a Marshall Faulk type. Give Domanick Davis a monster line though and you'll never miss Bush. It's all about the line.

Bring on a LT

Are ya nutz? Davis gets 1,000 yd season inspite of our O-line. Think if he had the luxury of a good one? The guy could put up Barry Sanders-like numbers!!!! Carr Could possibly be wiping his A** with manning if he had a line that protected him and an offense that allowed him to think for himself (audibles people) Unlike Manning, Carr is not a sitting duck in the pocket. Manning gives up weak sacks because my one-legged grandmother is more mobile. The 1st 3 rds of the draft should be devoted to Offensive linemen NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :brickwall Our scouts should not look at anything but O-Linemen

We agree that they need to be looking at offensive linemen. I think you're a little overly optimistic about Domanick Davis "potential". I think that if you give Davis a truly great line to run behind then you're looking at a guy who's going to get you max 1500 or so yards per season. I like Domanick Davis and with a line like that he's all you really need back there. He's going to run hard for you but he is what he is.

Domanick Davis couldn't put up Barry Sanders-like numbers of you wrote them on a piece of paper for him, provided the refrigerator, and handed him the magnets to hang it with. He's good but he's not "unreal good" like Sanders was.

Gunbuny
10-19-2005, 03:49 AM
Ok I agree I did get a bit carried away withthe Barry Sanders comparison. The point I was after is that I live in Phoenix and I have seen for years how a bad O-Line can ruin a good RB or QB. The Cardinals have consistently had the worse O-Line in the NFL Look at all the RB's they have gone thru: Garrison Hearst (did nothing in AZ, goes to SF has a very productive year), Thomas Jones (He is not doing that bad in Chicago but look at the years he wasted in AZ) We have an O-Line that is at least as bad if not worse, thanks to Casserly's ineptitude and DD STILL gets 1000 yd rushing a season. Cardinals have not had that luxury since they moved to AZ. Obviously DD has a good deal of talent and barring severe or major injuries, could finish up his career with somewhere near 10k yards with the help of a good O-Line. Hell, Brett Favre looks like crap now that he has a bad O-Line. My point is this: with the talent we have at the skill postions, it is sick and wrong that Casserly has not gone all out to get a Line for his Franchise QB or the treasure he found in the 4th rd(DD). This is why I am all for running this moron out of town (take Capers with you) and finding a GM who will at least protect his big investment in a QB. Four years of patchword and fitting square pegs in round holes has only gotten us a QB who has spent more time on his back than any Nevada Brothel's Employee of The Month. Sorry but it just makes my blood boil.

Hervoyel
10-19-2005, 10:39 AM
I'll give you that of course. We'd all like to see what Davis is capable of running behind a tail kicking monster offensive line.

If for no other reason than that it would mean that we actually have a tail kicking monster offensive line.

AlexVanderpool
10-19-2005, 11:16 AM
Though Bush is very enticing and first impulse says to take the best LT avaliable, I still say that we should trade down for extra high round picks.

Though an LT is the top priority, we need talent all over the place:

Playmaking ILB - this to me is the most critical position on defense (we passed up a gem with DJ)draft an ahmad brooks type

Playmaking OLB - may not be a need if we lose Fangio's system

2 - 3 solid OL (C and G) - get 2 through free agency

Solid #2 WR - free agency

Playmaking strong safety - draft

CB - draft later for potential

Cjeremy635
10-19-2005, 11:31 AM
Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!

Vinny
10-19-2005, 11:34 AM
Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!I think Gaffney, Norris and Dom Davis are quality starters (that we developed)...other than that, I think the list is full.

Double Barrel
10-19-2005, 11:50 AM
My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals.

Don't worry, my friend. Our new coaching staff (coming soon: January 2006) will be able to handle the duties required of them, above and beyond the call of duty.

Offensive lines take the longest to develop, and then everything else can fall in behind that (including defensive priorities). Once we have a solid OL that can consistently run a scoring offense, I feel confident that a decent defense can be established within 1-2 years.

HomeBred_Texan
10-19-2005, 12:01 PM
Again guys, we are missing the point. I can't think of anyone that this team has "developed" into a quality starter except Dunta and AJ and we can't seem to get AJ the ball so it doesn't matter how good he is. My concern is that we take a top LT in the draft but we can't teach him the basic fundamentals. It's apparent that our coaches can't teach the basics because that's there excuse every week. "We didn't execute"..means we don't know what we are doing out there! I think I'm getting an anurism!!!
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..

Cjeremy635
10-19-2005, 12:19 PM
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..

A new RB & QB? I don't think that's the problem....kinda like putting the buggy before the horse. Isn't that mentality the same reason we are in the current situation? Why ruin another QB or allow him to not reach his full potential (not saying Carr is ruined yet)..doesn't make any sense.

Cjeremy635
10-19-2005, 12:22 PM
Have you been watching the same games as I have?
This is not pop-warner ball. Until Carr can throw the ball down field and "complete" it, we will NEVER develop.
Let the "New" head coach decide what his needs are. A new QB or RB would be a start. Then maybe develop the O-Line. I think we have talent there but they are not being coached correctly.
High quality line men will be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We cannot pass on a chance to get an all-pro type QB or RB with our picks this year..


Maybe a few linemen are decent...and I say "maybe decent" with a huge lump in my throat. Better coaching will definately help but those guys have to stop being pushed around by the D line. Blocking assignments are from the coaches, getting manhandled is just embarassing for the coaches and the O line. :tomato:

HomeBred_Texan
10-19-2005, 12:23 PM
A new RB & QB? I don't think that's the problem....kinda like putting the buggy before the horse. Isn't that mentality the same reason we are in the current situation? Why ruin another QB or allow him to not reach his full potential (not saying Carr is ruined yet)..doesn't make any sense.
What do you mean it makes no sense? We are going to have to get a new head coach and staff. We will officially be a "rebuilding" team. So you have to start with the basics. A QB and RB. We can always sit out the new QB for a year while we get our line togeather. I am not 100% sure that the O/L problems are the players fault. Players are only as good as there coach. And I don't think they have been properly coached is all. That is a talented O/L that is not producing.

Cjeremy635
10-19-2005, 12:32 PM
What do you mean it makes no sense? We are going to have to get a new head coach and staff. We will officially be a "rebuilding" team. So you have to start with the basics. A QB and RB. We can always sit out the new QB for a year while we get our line togeather. I am not 100% sure that the O/L problems are the players fault. Players are only as good as there coach. And I don't think they have been properly coached is all. That is a talented O/L that is not producing.


Well good sir, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good day to you. :pigfly:

thunderkyss
10-19-2005, 08:22 PM
Every time you get a new quarterback, you start all over. You have to dumb down the offense, and it's hard to win games with dumb offenses. Take a look at the Cowboys, and learn. 8 years, they've been starting over almost every year, because of new QBs, or new Coaches. McNair has to decide if he'd made a mistake with his coach or not.
Facts: you've got a team who in it's fourth year looks like it doesn't understand how to play football.

That tells me the coach hasn't been doing his job. If I were McNair, Dom's got to go. Unless he can come up with a good excuse, which I don't think he has one, he'll be looking for another job. That is providing I've got the inside tack on a soon to be available suitable replacement(Shanahan, or the like).

Can't run, Can't pass, and Defense sucks. The only thing that can fix all those, is the Offensive line. Make some holes for the running game, buy some time for the recievers, keep the QB on his feet, and allow the defense to rest.

But there is no way I'm taking an Offensive lineman with a top ten pick(chances are pretty good we'll be in the top 5). We can trade that pick for experienced players. Trade your number one and a Tony Banks(or any other solid #2 defensive player) for a couple of O-line Starters. LT, and Gaurd. With Reggie Bush, Leinart, and possibly Vince Young on the table, that high pick will be worth it.

How can we pass up on such talent?? Peyton Manning, Edgerin James, and Marvin Harrison would'nt be the players they are today, if Indy Started building with them. They had their line, then they built their offense, then they got their coach, then their defense.

Look at what Gruden did in Oakland....Offensive line, Quarterback(an old one), RB, Defense.
In Tampa, he inherited a defense, had the O-Line, added a little offensive talent.