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thefuture17
10-17-2005, 03:40 PM
I was thinking that maybe we could make a thread about the op college players this year and every weeek show how they do ill make my list and others make theres
heres mine in no order

Reggie Bush USC RB
Matt Leinrate USC QB
Drew Stanton MICHST QB
Marcus Vick VT QB
Chad Henne MICH QB
Michael Hart MICH RB
A.J. Hawk OSU MLB
Tedd Ginn Jr OSU WR
Adrian Petterson OKL RB
Vince Young TEX QB
Brady Quinn ND QB
Maurice Drew UCLA RB
Laurence Maroney MIN RB
Elvis Dumervil LOU DE
Chris Leak FLR QB [imo the best player in the nation]
Brian Calhoun WIS RB
Erik Ainge TENN QB
Chad Jakson FLR WR
Omar Jacobs BG QB
Derek Hagan ARST WR
Marcus Maxey MIA CB

if anyone knows any good DB put them up

beerlover
10-17-2005, 03:45 PM
I was thinking that maybe we could make a thread about the op college players this year and every weeek show how they do ill make my list and others make theres
heres mine in no order

Reggie Bush USC RB
Matt Leinrate USC QB
Drew Stanton MICHST QB
Marcus Vick VT QB
Chad Henne MICH QB
Michael Hart MICH RB
A.J. Hawk OSU MLB
Tedd Ginn Jr OSU WR
Adrian Petterson OKL RB
Vince Young TEX QB
Brady Quinn ND QB
Maurice Drew UCLA RB
Laurence Maroney MIN RB
Elvis Dumervil LOU DE
Chris Leak FLR QB [imo the best player in the nation]
Brian Calhoun WIS RB
Erik Ainge TENN QB
Chad Jakson FLR WR
Omar Jacobs BG QB
Derek Hagan ARST WR
Marcus Maxey MIA CB

if anyone knows any good DB put them up

good idea in my opinion but can we limit the discussion to draft eligible only prospects? until the underclassman officially declare it just creates to much uncertainty (not to mention self impossed blackout of a certain player) that doesn't count does it?

TexansCanes
10-17-2005, 05:18 PM
well i can give you an eye witness report of leak. he can't take a hit. the guy will fall down in the face of a defender. also, meyer doesn't know how to adapt to his players.

good list but i think a few changes could be made:

Reggie Bush USC RB
Matt Leinart USC QB
Drew Stanton MICHST QB
Marcus Vick VT QB
Chad Henne MICH QB
Michael Hart MICH RB
A.J. Hawk OSU MLB
Tedd Ginn Jr OSU WR
Adrian Petterson OKL RB
Vince Young TEX QB
Brady Quinn ND QB
Maurice Drew UCLA RB
Laurence Maroney MIN RB
Elvis Dumervil LOU DE
Chris Leak FLR QB [imo the best player in the nation]
Brian Calhoun WIS RB
Chad Jakson FLR WR
Omar Jacobs BG QB
Derek Hagan ARST WR
Laron Landry LSU FS
Jimmy Williams VT CB
Darnell Bing USC SS
Mathias Kiwanuka BC DE
Mario Williams NCST DE
DeAngelo Williams Mem RB
Alan Zemaitis PSU CB
Ernie Sims FSU LB
Lendale White RB USC
Joe Addiai LSU RB (homer pick but best RB in the SEC, best all-around back behind bush)
Calvin Johnson GT WR

tulexan
10-17-2005, 05:24 PM
I would have to say that 1) Chris Leak is not the best player in the nation. 2) Joseph Addai is not the best all around back behind Bush, Maurice Drew is. Maurice Drew might even be more of an all around threat than Bush because of his insane punt return numbers.

TexansCanes
10-17-2005, 05:47 PM
forgot about drew, he is good but of course it is the pac-10. i took that from mel kiper before the year so drew has taken over that spot. however, drew is not a better all around player. bush averages 30 more all-purose yards a game and this is without getting to return many punts and having to share time with a back that averages more than 100 yards rushing a game himself.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 05:50 PM
I would have to say that 1) Chris Leak is not the best player in the nation. 2) Joseph Addai is not the best all around back behind Bush, Maurice Drew is. Maurice Drew might even be more of an all around threat than Bush because of his insane punt return numbers.
Well thats you opinion i like Chris Leak alot and i think he is a future start of the NFL and i think it will come down to him Marcus Vick and Reggie Bush for next year Heisman

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Who are the top devensivebacks in the nation

TexansCanes
10-17-2005, 05:55 PM
Well thats you opinion i like Chris Leak alot and i think he is a future start of the NFL and i think it will come down to him Marcus Vick and Reggie Bush for next year Heisman

not if urban meyer is still the head coach.

tulexan
10-17-2005, 05:58 PM
I think Leak will be a future star in the NFL too, this season has been a disaster though, which is why I don't think he is currently the best player in the ncaa.

tulexan
10-17-2005, 06:00 PM
Who are the top devensivebacks in the nation

There is the CB Jimmy Williams from VaTech who is 6'3 and fast. He will probably be a top 10 pick.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 07:13 PM
There is the CB Jimmy Williams from VaTech who is 6'3 and fast. He will probably be a top 10 pick.
are the many others whos that guy from miami who they had a segment about him on sportscenter isnt he sopposed to be the best in the counrty

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 07:32 PM
are the many others whos that guy from miami who they had a segment about him on sportscenter isnt he sopposed to be the best in the counrty
Kelly Jennings CB
Devin Hester CB, WR I think this is who you are talking about.
Darnell Bing S

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 08:34 PM
Kelly Jennings CB
Devin Hester CB, WR I think this is who you are talking about.
Darnell Bing S
ya is that uy good Devin Hester and where does he rate among the countries top defensive backs and what are his chances of getting drafted in the high first round in this or next yeras draft

rmartin65
10-17-2005, 08:48 PM
i think the list is a good idea. and i agree with only draft eligible guys.

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 08:58 PM
ya is that uy good Devin Hester and where does he rate among the countries top defensive backs and what are his chances of getting drafted in the high first round in this or next yeras draft
Mid first round this year.
Top ten next year.

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:00 PM
Hester is the second coming of PBurnt.

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 09:01 PM
are the many others whos that guy from miami who they had a segment about him on sportscenter isnt he sopposed to be the best in the counrty
CB Will Blackmon Boston college
S Jason Allen Tennessee
S Laron Landry LSU
CB Ashton Youboty Ohio State
S Michael Huff TEXAS

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Blackmon's stock should plummet from him playing WR all year.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 09:14 PM
Well whos the top player from each position heres mine

QB- wow this is hard but ill go with Chris Leak
RB- Reggie Bush
WR- Derek Hagan
Defensive player-AJ Hawk

YoungTexanFan
10-17-2005, 09:14 PM
CB Will Blackmon Boston college
S Jason Allen Tennessee
S Laron Landry LSU
CB Ashton Youboty Ohio State
S Michael Huff TEXAS


add S Slay from Texas Tech to that list....play maker! 6 games...6 fumbles caused from the safty. he dares recievers to come across the middle.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 09:26 PM
add S Slay from Texas Tech to that list....play maker! 6 games...6 fumbles caused from the safty. he dares recievers to come across the middle.
how many interceptions and sence you say he dares WR to come over the middle does that mean he hits hard???

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:27 PM
Well whos the top player from each position heres mine

QB - Omar Jacobs
RB - Reggie Bush
FB - Rashon Powers-Neal
WR - Demetrius Williams
T - Marcus Macneill
G - Davin Joseph
C - Patrick Ross
DE - Mario Williams
DT - Haloti Ngata
OLB - AJ Hawk
ILB - Abdul Hodge
CB - Jimmy Williams
S - Darnell Bing

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 09:28 PM
QB - Omar Jacobs
RB - Reggie Bush
FB - Rashon Powers-Neal
WR - Demetrius Williams
T - Marcus Macneill
G - Davin Joseph
C - Patrick Ross
DE - Mario Williams
DT - Hanoi Ogata
OLB - AJ Hawk
ILB - Abdul Hodge
CB - Jimmy Williams
S - Darnell Bing
wow your good who does Darnell Bing play for and whats good aout him

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:32 PM
wow your good who does Darnell Bing play for and whats good aout him

USC. He single handedly beat Notre Dame Saturday. Forced a Fumble late in the game which turned the tides on a USC comeback. He's been pretty solid all year.

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 09:45 PM
QB - Omar Jacobs
RB - Reggie Bush
FB - Rashon Powers-Neal
WR - Demetrius Williams
T - Marcus Macneill
G - Davin Joseph
C - Patrick Ross
DE - Mario Williams
DT - Hanoi Ogata
OLB - AJ Hawk
ILB - Abdul Hodge
CB - Jimmy Williams
S - Darnell Bing
I think you mean Haloti Ngata

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:49 PM
I think you mean Haloti Ngata

LOL yup. I always get my samoan names mixed up.

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 09:52 PM
QB - Marcus Vick
RB - Reggie Bush
FB - Lawrence Vickers
WR - Santonio Holmes
TE - Leonarde Pope
Tackle - D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Guard - Max Jean Gilles
Center - Greg Eslinger

DE Mathias Kiwanuka
DT Haloti Ngata
OLB AJ Hawk
MLB Ahmad Brooks
CB Jimmy Williams
S James Allen

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 09:52 PM
USC. He single handedly beat Notre Dame Saturday. Forced a Fumble late in the game which turned the tides on a USC comeback. He's been pretty solid all year.
ok i know who your talking about hes good but then again who on USC isnt.Imagine this how good USC was last year and if Mike Williams didnt make that stupid decison to enter the draft after his freshman year and then not being able to get reinstated but anyway imagine if the had him then theyd have Matt Leinrate Reggie Bush and Mike Willaims i think theyd have 3 of the top 5 heisman finishers.

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 09:55 PM
ok i know who your talking about hes good but then again who on USC isnt.Imagine this how good USC was last year and if Mike Williams didnt make that stupid decison to enter the draft after his freshman year and then not being able to get reinstated but anyway imagine if the had him then theyd have Matt Leinrate Reggie Bush and Mike Willaims i think theyd have 3 of the top 5 heisman finishers.

The scary part is, Both John David Booty and Mark Sanchez are FAR better QBs than Leinart.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 09:56 PM
QB - Marcus Vick
RB - Reggie Bush
FB - Lawrence Vickers
WR - Santonio Holmes
TE - Leonarde Pope
Tackle - D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Guard - Max Jean Gilles
Center - Greg Eslinger

DE Mathias Kiwanuka
DT Haloti Ngata
OLB AJ Hawk
MLB Ahmad Brooks
CB Jimmy Williams
S James Allen
do you mean Jason Allen????

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 09:58 PM
do you mean Jason Allen????
LOL yes i do.

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 10:01 PM
LOL yes i do.

And that one's not even Samoan :neener:

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 10:01 PM
The scary part is, Both John David Booty and Mark Sanchez are FAR better QBs than Leinart.
idn about that i dont know why people dont give him alot of credit I mean he was last years heisman and imo a future great NFL quarterback

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 10:04 PM
idn about that i dont know why people dont give him alot of credit I mean he was last years heisman and imo a future great NFL quarterback

A Bunch of reasons...

1. He's not mobile.
2. He's not VERY accurate, just accurate.
3. He has an average arm.
4. The talent around him is enough to stock 3 D1 programs...his backups Booty and Sanchez both could start and put up his numbers(probably better...) or start at another school since their Freshman year.
5. He relies too much on the talent of his teammates. Often just lobbing the ball up and letting them do the work.

Realistically, He's exactly like Ken Dorsey. A smart, accurate passer with a weak arm who benefits from playing on awesome teams. The difference is, Miami was well balanced, so Dorsey didnt have to "carry" Miami, the way the USC offense has to carry USC.

Bubbajwp
10-17-2005, 10:05 PM
And that one's not even Samoan :neener:
:thud: :bag:

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 10:20 PM
A Bunch of reasons...

1. He's not mobile.
2. He's not VERY accurate, just accurate.
3. He has an average arm.
4. The talent around him is enough to stock 3 D1 programs...his backups Booty and Sanchez both could start and put up his numbers(probably better...) or start at another school since their Freshman year.
5. He relies too much on the talent of his teammates. Often just lobbing the ball up and letting them do the work.

Realistically, He's exactly like Ken Dorsey. A smart, accurate passer with a weak arm who benefits from playing on awesome teams. The difference is, Miami was well balanced, so Dorsey didnt have to "carry" Miami, the way the USC offense has to carry USC.
ya but unlike Dorsey i think Leinrate will do good in the NFL and by the way whos better Booty or Sanchez Booty right hes supposed to be USC QB next year right

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 10:25 PM
ya but unlike Dorsey i think Leinrate will do good in the NFL and by the way whos better Booty or Sanchez Booty right hes supposed to be USC QB next year right

Booty is starting next year because Sanchez is a Freshman this year and Booty will be a Junior next year. Sanchez needs to put on some weight before he gets a chance to play. Booty can absolutely throw the ball though.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 10:31 PM
Booty is starting next year because Sanchez is a Freshman this year and Booty will be a Junior next year. Sanchez needs to put on some weight before he gets a chance to play. Booty can absolutely throw the ball though.
im guessing Booty will become a heisman hopeful next year can he run the ball good

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 10:37 PM
im guessing Booty will become a heisman hopeful next year can he run the ball good

If Jarrett(has to..sophomore), Smith and LenDale White all stay, no doubt Booty will be a Heisman canidate. If he loses White, then Mike Coleman will get the majority of the carries. He's certainly built to carry the load, but he's only going to be a sophomore as well.

Booty doesnt run very well, but far better than Leinart.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 10:44 PM
If Jarrett(has to..sophomore), Smith and LenDale White all stay, no doubt Booty will be a Heisman canidate. If he loses White, then Mike Coleman will get the majority of the carries. He's certainly built to carry the load, but he's only going to be a sophomore as well.

Booty doesnt run very well, but far better than Leinart.
what if Reggie Bush doesnt enter the draft none of them are gonna get any votes for heisman

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 10:47 PM
Bush is definetly gone. He basically said he was leaving when Matt was leaving. So if Matt left last year, he was going to leave this year. Matt coming back was just a bonus for him.

thefuture17
10-17-2005, 10:55 PM
Bush is definetly gone. He basically said he was leaving when Matt was leaving. So if Matt left last year, he was going to leave this year. Matt coming back was just a bonus for him.
oo that sucks i love watching him in college and i like college football more then NFL [which i love the nfl to] because those guys show more intensity and they have better fans.Man i cant wait till i play college football but thats off the subject.I dont think White will be in the top 5 heisman race i mean look at all the other players like Adrian Petterson Marcus Vick Chris Leak Drew Stanton Chad Henne Michael Hart and im sure theres others

beerlover
10-18-2005, 12:19 AM
just happens I have a certain friend at work who's son is 13 and is eating up the competition as the starting RB. seems he has a solid line of, get this 13 year olds, 6'0 -6'2 average weight 210-230 lbs+ averages 100 over yards per game plus 2 td's and runs a 4.5 40 for real! Texas football is awesome baby and thats why we need people who are from this state running the Texans, there needs to be that connection. Derrick Johnson should be a Texan & Casserly blew it, big time just like Lidge did by throwing to big Albert Pujols in the 9th with two on base. man this hurts deep :mad:

Youngstown Colt
10-18-2005, 12:48 AM
I was thinking that maybe we could make a thread about the op college players this year and every weeek show how they do ill make my list and others make theres
heres mine in no order

Tedd Ginn Jr OSU WR
If this was a list of last year's best players, then Teddy would get a spot, but this year, hype alone doesn't get it done. Holmes is the man on that offense.

Tenacious G
10-18-2005, 01:01 AM
i think a late-round steal is going to be Taurean Henderson from Texas Tech. the guy doesn't get much publicity since Tech throws 100 times a game, but he's an effective runner. and he's proven he can catch the ball out of the backfield. he's a little on the small side (5-10, 210) but deceptively quick. then again, there aren't too many RBs in the NFL taller than 6'.

TexansCanes
10-18-2005, 02:26 AM
i think the player that gets most of the carries next year for usc is hershal dennis if both white and bush leave. one thing you are forgetting is that leinart calls the shots, which is why he is so good. the guy is the college version of peyton, he called to the fly route to jarret on the fourth and nine. usc is going to experience a huge drop off next year because the norm chow connection will pretty much gone. hear good stuff about both booty and sanchez, booty will probably be the starter becasue he is a junior.

don't know about that heisman list. some of those players will be in the hunt but leak, peterson, henne, hart, and stanton probably won't. leak has looked terrible in his three big games (tennessee, alabama, LSU) so far outside of the first half against tennessee. AP has been slowed with that high ankle sprain. henne hasn't played well, the lose of edwards is really hurting him, if mario manningham can become the number 2 then breaston can move back to the slot where he is most effective and michigan could start rolling again. hart was hurt for some big games and that will take you out of the heisman race. stanton has put up some big numbers and had a great game on national tv against nd but wasn't able to do it against OSU. i thought i was going to be vince young's heisman to lose but bush seems to have emerged as the frontrunner and will win it if he continues. Young could sneak up, but i think he will be number two and matt leinart will round out the top three. if va tech stays undfeated then marcus will probably finish in the top five and i will put maybe croyle if they finish unbeaten, but that will be tough for bama.

my position rankings:
QB-Marcus Vick
RB-Reggie Bush
WR-Calvin Johnson
T-Jonathan Scott
G-Max Jean Gilles
C-Greg Esinger
DE-Mathias Kiwanuka
DT-Claude Wroten
LB-A.J. Hawk
CB-Jimmy Williams
S-Laron Landry

beerlover
10-18-2005, 01:31 PM
Seniors only list-

Matt Leinart QB
DeAngelo Williams RB
Demetrius Williams WR
D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT
Max Jean-Gilles OG
Greg Eslinger C
Mercedes Lewis TE

Rodrique Wright DT
Mathias Kiwanuka DE
Chad Greenway OLB
Abdul Hodge ILB
Jimmy Williams CB
Michael Huff S

Huge
10-18-2005, 03:15 PM
The scary part is, Both John David Booty and Mark Sanchez are FAR better QBs than Leinart.
Heh, heh...no.

Youngstown Colt
10-18-2005, 03:51 PM
holmes is the man, period. he is sensational.

relatedly, i like the other OSU linebacker more than hawk, for what it's worth.Carpenter is nice, but Ohio State hasn't seen a better LB than Hawk since Spielman. Is it that you like his style of play? Carpenter would be a better 3-4 fit than Hawk, that's for sure.

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 03:54 PM
Heh, heh...no.

Heh, heh...yes.

Youngstown Colt
10-18-2005, 03:56 PM
John David Booty is actually one of the most talented QBs to ever come out of high school, so it's not that far fetched.

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 03:56 PM
i think the player that gets most of the carries next year for usc is hershal dennis if both white and bush leave. one thing you are forgetting is that leinart calls the shots, which is why he is so good. the guy is the college version of peyton, he called to the fly route to jarret on the fourth and nine. usc is going to experience a huge drop off next year because the norm chow connection will pretty much gone. hear good stuff about both booty and sanchez, booty will probably be the starter becasue he is a junior.


Forgot all about Dennis. Here's to hoping he's made a full recovery by next Spring.

rmartin65
10-18-2005, 04:36 PM
holmes is the man, period. he is sensational.

relatedly, i like the other OSU linebacker more than hawk, for what it's worth.
I like Carpenter better also.

Huge
10-18-2005, 05:02 PM
John David Booty is actually one of the most talented QBs to ever come out of high school, so it's not that far fetched.
He came out of the same high school system that produced Booty's older brother and Brock Berlin. Both were highly regarded coming out of high school and both were considered flops in college. Neither could replace the QB in front of them (Booty at LSU, Berlin at Florida) so both transfered. If JDB is a better QB than Leinart, I'm pretty sure somebody that knows a thing or two about QBs (Norm Chow) would have had him running his offense instead of Leinart himself.

So...what exactly have JDB and Sanchez done to prove they're "FAR" better QBs than Leinart?

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 05:24 PM
He came out of the same high school system that produced Booty's older brother and Brock Berlin. Both were highly regarded coming out of high school and both were considered flops in college. Neither could replace the QB in front of them (Booty at LSU, Berlin at Florida) so both transfered. If JDB is a better QB than Leinart, I'm pretty sure somebody that knows a thing or two about QBs (Norm Chow) would have had him running his offense instead of Leinart himself.

That makes no sense.

A. So because a player comes from the same system as two other "flops"(Berlin is in the NFL, don't know how anyone who goes pro is considered a flop...), all players from that system have to fail. Right, gotcha.

B. Leinart had two years in the USC system more than Booty, why wouldnt he have been the starter?

Huge
10-18-2005, 05:39 PM
That makes no sense.

A. So because a player comes from the same system as two other "flops"(Berlin is in the NFL, don't know how anyone who goes pro is considered a flop...), all players from that system have to fail. Right, gotcha.

B. Leinart had two years in the USC system more than Booty, why wouldnt he have been the starter?
A. What NFL team does Berlin play for?

B. Leinart wouldn't be the starter if he wasn't the better QB. It's a pretty simple concept. The fact he's been in the system longer doesn't matter. If he's not the better QB, then he's not going to start. The fact that he is starting (and has been starting...and winning Heismans, and being named All-American, etc., etc.) should be enough to tell you who the better QB is.

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 05:46 PM
A. What NFL team does Berlin play for?

B. Leinart wouldn't be the starter if he wasn't the better QB. It's a pretty simple concept. The fact he's been in the system longer doesn't matter. If he's not the better QB, then he's not going to start. The fact that he is starting (and has been starting...and winning Heismans, and being named All-American, etc., etc.) should be enough to tell you who the better QB is.

Berlin is on the Dolphins practice squad as far as I know.

OK, You got me. Experience in a system doesnt matter. Throwing a 17 year old kid into a D1 Lion's Den is no different from throwing a 20 year old who had 2 years to learn the system and adapt to the speed of college football, out there. :ok:

TexansCanes
10-18-2005, 06:05 PM
He came out of the same high school system that produced Booty's older brother and Brock Berlin. Both were highly regarded coming out of high school and both were considered flops in college. Neither could replace the QB in front of them (Booty at LSU, Berlin at Florida) so both transfered. If JDB is a better QB than Leinart, I'm pretty sure somebody that knows a thing or two about QBs (Norm Chow) would have had him running his offense instead of Leinart himself.

So...what exactly have JDB and Sanchez done to prove they're "FAR" better QBs than Leinart?

funny you say that becuase norm chow, while at a pac-10 press conference after he left usc, said that he thought john david was more talented and could very well be better than leinart. i find it hard to believe also but if chow said it then i might have to take his word for it.

Huge
10-18-2005, 06:22 PM
Berlin is on the Dolphins practice squad as far as I know.

OK, You got me. Experience in a system doesnt matter. Throwing a 17 year old kid into a D1 Lion's Den is no different from throwing a 20 year old who had 2 years to learn the system and adapt to the speed of college football, out there. :ok:
As of August 31st, Berlin was no longer a member of the Miami Dolphins. (http://dynamic.espn.go.com/nfl/teamtransactions?team=mia)

Booty is a 20 year old QB in his 3rd year at USC. That's hardly "throwing a 17 year old kid into a D1 Lion's Den". So again, if he is a "FAR better" QB than Leinart, is now 20 years old (will be 21 before their bowl game) and is in his 3rd year of their system, don't you think he'd be starting over Leinart? Surely this would be obvious to football minds like Pete Carroll and Steve Sarkisian. Right?

Huge
10-18-2005, 06:27 PM
funny you say that becuase norm chow, while at a pac-10 press conference after he left usc, said that he thought john david was more talented and could very well be better than leinart. i find it hard to believe also but if chow said it then i might have to take his word for it.
I'll try to make my point of view a little clearer...

I do believe that Booty and Sanchez are better athletes than Leinart. I do not believe that this makes them better QBs.

If one or the other has the opportunity to become better QBs than Leinart, I believe Sanchez has the better chance of doing so. This is based on nothing other than watching them play in high school. Because really, what else do we have to go by?

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 07:12 PM
Booty is a 20 year old QB in his 3rd year at USC. That's hardly "throwing a 17 year old kid into a D1 Lion's Den". So again, if he is a "FAR better" QB than Leinart, is now 20 years old (will be 21 before their bowl game) and is in his 3rd year of their system, don't you think he'd be starting over Leinart? Surely this would be obvious to football minds like Pete Carroll and Steve Sarkisian. Right?

You missed my point entirely. I won't even bother trying to rephrase it, it was quite simplified to begin with.

Bubbajwp
10-18-2005, 07:37 PM
Who care we are not going to get Matt Lienart. End of story.

thefuture17
10-18-2005, 07:46 PM
Whats everyones thoughts on Marcus Vick is he gonna be better then his broher or not

Bubbajwp
10-18-2005, 07:49 PM
I think so. He is almost as fast Mike ran a 4.25 - 40 and Marcus ran a 4.28-40. I also think Marcus is more accurate and has better pocket presence.

YoungTexanFan
10-18-2005, 07:52 PM
mike actually has a better arm, and a better arm than many nfl qbs. he just isnt a pocket qb and is not very accurate.

Youngstown Colt
10-18-2005, 07:59 PM
hawk can only play MLB and really only that in a 4-3

carpenter is physically more gifted- he's taller and faster. he's really a sensational athlete who will zoom up the charts at the combine. he can play any of the 4 LB spots in a 3-4.He's not faster, not on the football field. He's really not even a good cover LB, but he is a really good pass rusher.

I watch every one of their games. Hawk is a better all around LB, and he'll prove that in the pros.

Every year you have people who think it's brilliant to say that they guy who doesn't get the hype is actually the better player. Well, in this case, you're wrong. It wouldn't suprise me to see Carpenter become a DE in the NFL, but he sure as hell can't play the middle in either the 4-3 or 3-4.

TexansCanes
10-18-2005, 08:37 PM
I'll try to make my point of view a little clearer...

I do believe that Booty and Sanchez are better athletes than Leinart. I do not believe that this makes them better QBs.

If one or the other has the opportunity to become better QBs than Leinart, I believe Sanchez has the better chance of doing so. This is based on nothing other than watching them play in high school. Because really, what else do we have to go by?

i know what you are saying, i am just saying what chow said. i will clear up what i said, chow said he thinks booty will be a better qb.

Huge
10-18-2005, 10:27 PM
You missed my point entirely. I won't even bother trying to rephrase it, it was quite simplified to begin with.
I don't think I missed your point at all...

The scary part is, Both John David Booty and Mark Sanchez are FAR better QBs than Leinart.
That's pretty cut and dry.

Now if your point is/was that they could or would become better QBs than Leinart, then that's different (though I'd still disagree with the Booty could/will be better ... Sanchez, maybe, but not Booty).

But the fact that Leinart has been starting over both of them, has won 2 MNC's, 1 Heisman, put up better numbers his sophmore year than Carson Palmer did the year he won the Heisman, is a two-time All-American (3 at the end of this year) and could become just the 2nd player ever to win the Heisman twice gives me just an inkling that he might be a bit better QB than one QB with 33 career collegiate pass attempts (Booty) and another QB with zero (Sanchez).

Brent Rawls was the other Evangel Christian(same high school as the Booty's and Berlin) QB (signed with Oklahoma then transfered to La. Tech). That's a trend.

i know what you are saying, i am just saying what chow said. i will clear up what i said, chow said he thinks booty will be a better qb.
Dennis Franchione is telling RB recruits that he can make them better than Ladanian Tomlinson.

Moral of that story: Don't take everything a coach says to heart.

Whats everyones thoughts on Marcus Vick is he gonna be better then his broher or not
I think Marcus has a long way to go before he proves he's as good as his brother. Their physical abilities are somewhat close (Mike has a much better arm). But Mike has a sizeable advantage in intangibles (leadership, winning). Not that Marcus can't prove he can do the same. He just hasn't done it yet.

But no, I don't think he's going to be better than his brother.

WildBlackBear32
10-18-2005, 10:35 PM
I don't think I missed your point at all...


That's pretty cut and dry.


Nope...you definetly missed it...

thefuture17
10-18-2005, 10:41 PM
I think Marcus has a long way to go before he proves he's as good as his brother. Their physical abilities are somewhat close (Mike has a much better arm). But Mike has a sizeable advantage in intangibles (leadership, winning). Not that Marcus can't prove he can do the same. He just hasn't done it yet.

But no, I don't think he's going to be better than his brother.
I personally think that Marcus will be bettr its just something inside me that makes me think Marcus is something special along with a few other college QBs this year.But the thing that people dont know about vick is he probably throws the alll harder then any QB in the league besides probably Favre and Carr.But he isnt a pocketpasser at all and thats why marcus is gonna be better

Huge
10-18-2005, 11:54 PM
Nope...you definetly missed it...
That was a direct quote from you. You weren't trying to make the point that Booty and Sanchez are better QBs than Leinart?

Or were you trying to make the point that Booty isn't starting over Leinart simply due to lack of system experience? In which case, makes no sense at all. He's been in their system for 3 years.

I personally think that Marcus will be bettr its just something inside me that makes me think Marcus is something special along with a few other college QBs this year.But the thing that people dont know about vick is he probably throws the alll harder then any QB in the league besides probably Favre and Carr.But he isnt a pocketpasser at all and thats why marcus is gonna be better
There are several pocket passers that wish they had Mike Vick's winning percentage as a starting QB.

rmartin65
10-19-2005, 10:13 AM
He's not faster, not on the football field. He's really not even a good cover LB, but he is a really good pass rusher.

I watch every one of their games. Hawk is a better all around LB, and he'll prove that in the pros.

Every year you have people who think it's brilliant to say that they guy who doesn't get the hype is actually the better player. Well, in this case, you're wrong. It wouldn't suprise me to see Carpenter become a DE in the NFL, but he sure as hell can't play the middle in either the 4-3 or 3-4.
The thing is the Texans dont really need a middle linebacker. And the Texans do need a passrush. I think he'd be worth a late first or early second pick. He had 4 sacks against MSU, that tied a OSU record.

rmartin65
10-19-2005, 10:41 AM
Hawk probably is the better linebacker, but Carpenter is more of what the Texans need. Wong and Greenwood are decent cover guys. But the texans have almost no passrush. Carpenter can boost that.

WildBlackBear32
10-19-2005, 11:54 AM
That was a direct quote from you. You weren't trying to make the point that Booty and Sanchez are better QBs than Leinart?

Or were you trying to make the point that Booty isn't starting over Leinart simply due to lack of system experience? In which case, makes no sense at all. He's been in their system for 3 years.

Think deep. Actually, you probably don't have to think too deep, but just think a bit. It will come, I promise.

TexansCanes
10-19-2005, 12:35 PM
Dennis Franchione is telling RB recruits that he can make them better than Ladanian Tomlinson.

is he telling the media that these rb are going to be better than LaDainian?

thefuture17
10-19-2005, 12:46 PM
There are several pocket passers that wish they had Mike Vick's winning percentage as a starting QB.
Ya i know and i never said Vick wasnt a good QB and if you look at it this way i dont remember Marcus losing any games yet either.I know theres a difference between college and pros but Marcus hasnt got his shot in the pros yet so im just comparing them ike that and i think Marcus will be better because hes a pretty good pocket passer [no where near the arm of michael but way more accurate] actually Marcus gots a cannon for an arm to but anyways Michael only runs a little better then him which is why Marcus is gonna be better because Marcus could be a pocket passer who can scramble real well but thats only my opinion now because if they can get Michael to be a good pocket QB then the rest of the NFL is screwed

Youngstown Colt
10-19-2005, 12:47 PM
we're not necessarily seeing different things. i see carpenter like the nebraska rush-ends. i played the game and i watch the game, and i have no disrespect for hawk. this is a texans message board and i think the texans defense needs guys like rush-ends. i've seen carpenter cover a lot of ground, but i'll take your word for it in terms of pass coverage.That's all I wanted to know, if you liked Carpenter more for a Texans standpoint. And with that I agree, he is better for your team.

Ok, I get you.

Huge
10-19-2005, 08:49 PM
Think deep. Actually, you probably don't have to think too deep, but just think a bit. It will come, I promise.
I don't know...maybe it's the drugs (wisdom teeth were removed Monday. HA! Even better....lack of wisdom!). So if you could explain how the better QB isn't starting at USC after being in the system for 3 years I'd appreciate it.

is he telling the media that these rb are going to be better than LaDainian?
He's telling the players (who are then telling the media).

Ya i know and i never said Vick wasnt a good QB and if you look at it this way i dont remember Marcus losing any games yet either.I know theres a difference between college and pros but Marcus hasnt got his shot in the pros yet so im just comparing them ike that and i think Marcus will be better because hes a pretty good pocket passer [no where near the arm of michael but way more accurate] actually Marcus gots a cannon for an arm to but anyways Michael only runs a little better then him which is why Marcus is gonna be better because Marcus could be a pocket passer who can scramble real well but thats only my opinion now because if they can get Michael to be a good pocket QB then the rest of the NFL is screwed
Even if I don't agree with it, I can understand that point of view. I just see it differently.

It just seems that a lot of people lately like to jump on the next best thing...especially when it comes to QBs that are related (Eli will be better than Peyton...Marcus will be better than Mike). The thing that Peyton and Mike have going for them is that they're proven and there's simply no arguing that at all...it's fact. Kinda like Leinart being the better QB at USC. Until you've done something, all you are is potential.

Could Marcus be better than Mike? Sure...absolutely. But I don't think he will and it has nothing to do with the probability that he'll be a better pocket passer than Mike.

tulexan
10-20-2005, 04:40 PM
Ya i know and i never said Vick wasnt a good QB and if you look at it this way i dont remember Marcus losing any games yet either.I know theres a difference between college and pros but Marcus hasnt got his shot in the pros yet so im just comparing them ike that and i think Marcus will be better because hes a pretty good pocket passer [no where near the arm of michael but way more accurate] actually Marcus gots a cannon for an arm to but anyways Michael only runs a little better then him which is why Marcus is gonna be better because Marcus could be a pocket passer who can scramble real well but thats only my opinion now because if they can get Michael to be a good pocket QB then the rest of the NFL is screwed

I think Marcus has learned from Michael and that's why he doesn't run as much. He has the speed and the moves to be a great runner, yet he has seen his brother be sidelined for the season by running and missing a few games every season because he gets hurt all the time. Marcus still has a long way to go, but considering that he has only a handful of games of experience under his belt he looks pretty good. Beamer is also having Marcus run a pretty conservative offense because of his lack of experience. Next year we should see a much more impressive Marcus Vick because he will have that experience, another offseason of working with Michael, and a less conservative offense that will allow him to showcase his skills.

thefuture17
10-20-2005, 10:40 PM
I think Marcus has learned from Michael and that's why he doesn't run as much. He has the speed and the moves to be a great runner, yet he has seen his brother be sidelined for the season by running and missing a few games every season because he gets hurt all the time. Marcus still has a long way to go, but considering that he has only a handful of games of experience under his belt he looks pretty good. Beamer is also having Marcus run a pretty conservative offense because of his lack of experience. Next year we should see a much more impressive Marcus Vick because he will have that experience, another offseason of working with Michael, and a less conservative offense that will allow him to showcase his skills.
I think Vick looked decent tonight from what i saw.He was running great and his passing wasnt that bad but he has to do better 3 interceptions is unacceptable but hey there still gonna win and he did throw for over 200 yard and run for over 100 yards and theres still over 6 minutes left.So overall i think he did pretty decent but those 3 picks cant happen again

tulexan
10-20-2005, 10:48 PM
yeah three picks and no passing touchdowns is not great, but a win is a win. i guess it is better to throw three picks and win then throw five touchdowns and lose. he has had some rushing game though. probably the best of the season for him. i didn't see the game, were they bad picks or were they good interceptions?

thefuture17
10-20-2005, 11:07 PM
yeah three picks and no passing touchdowns is not great, but a win is a win. i guess it is better to throw three picks and win then throw five touchdowns and lose. he has had some rushing game though. probably the best of the season for him. i didn't see the game, were they bad picks or were they good interceptions?
2 of them where forced but one was a good pick and Vick just got done an interview and he said "im not doing this again my legs hurt" lol talking about running alot but he did great running.I cant wait till they play BC should be a great game and hopefully USC or TEXAS [which i love both of those teams but i like Virgina tech more] loses so we can see virginia tech in the rose bowl.

tulexan
10-20-2005, 11:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if VT wins out that they are in the Rose Bowl. They have a much tougher schedule left and they could leap over Texas regardless of what Texas does. Of course if there was a PLAYOFF none of this would be an issue. VT has to play BC, UVA, and Miami. If they sweep them, they deserve to be in the Rose Bowl. Of course you could make the same argument with UGA who has to play in the toughest conference and probably would deserve a Rose Bowl berth as well. I think VT or UGA could give USC a really tough game because of their lockdown athletic defenses.

Huge
10-20-2005, 11:37 PM
Games like tonight won't help VT's cause. Unless they start looking a lot better, voters are going to start putting Georgia ahead of them in the polls. It might not change their overall position (if they continue to win, they won't drop), but they'll lose valuable points that will keep them from closing in on Texas.

tulexan
10-20-2005, 11:50 PM
UGA might be more deserving. I think they are having a hell of a year, yet are being overshadowed by the other undefeated teams because they don't have the star power that the other three have. But 3 out of the last 4 games for VT are against top 25 teams plus ACC championship which will probably be FSU while UGA has 2 out of 4 plus SEC championship which could be LSU, Auburn, or Alabama. Assuming VT, UGA, UT, and USC go undefeated (which is probably unlikely, yet could happen) they all deserve to be in the national championship game. I'm hoping they all are because that could finally be the blow that kills the BCS (i can dream right?). There would be absolutely no justification to say one of those teams is better than another. Purely based on schedules I would say that UGA and VT would be the most deserving to play for the title.

Should be an interesting few weeks ahead of us.

thefuture17
10-22-2005, 07:24 PM
Vince young looked pretty good today and tha heisman pose he did might help his cause out for heisman.He did throw two picks in two consecative drives which was bad but one of them the croner made a nice play but the other he shouldnt have thrown into triple coverage.Other then those two plays i think he played real good even though he didnt put up his best stats but stats aremntt everthing.Can anyone tell how Reggie Bush and Matt Leinrte played

Fldvldog
10-22-2005, 07:36 PM
...and tha heisman pose he did might help his cause out for heisman.played


Why would his "heisman pose" help his cause for the heisman trophy?

thefuture17
10-22-2005, 08:51 PM
Why would his "heisman pose" help his cause for the heisman trophy?
it did for Desmond Howard so it might for Vince Young

Huge
10-22-2005, 10:24 PM
Only way Vince wins the Heisman is if he comes back next year. The media decided a long time ago that Reggie Bush was going to win it this year (and he will).

Also, see what I posted almost a year ago on the subject. (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=5286&highlight=heisman)

Fldvldog
10-23-2005, 10:49 AM
it did for Desmond Howard so it might for Vince Young


That doesn't even make sense. Desmond Howard had the talent to win the heisman when he did. If he never would have done the heisman pose, guess what? He would have still won it...

rmartin65
10-23-2005, 12:53 PM
Reggie Bush should get the Heisman. He can change the game in so many ways.

thefuture17
10-23-2005, 01:06 PM
That doesn't even make sense. Desmond Howard had the talent to win the heisman when he did. If he never would have done the heisman pose, guess what? He would have still won it...
Ya but it helped him out and it might help Vince young out a little i dont think he'll win but it could help him

thefuture17
10-23-2005, 01:10 PM
What about Brady Quinn noones even talking about him.He just threw fro 6 tds and for like 468 yards.I think he might have had the best weekend besides Mizzs QB who threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 200

Huge
10-23-2005, 01:53 PM
Ya but it helped him out and it might help Vince young out a little i dont think he'll win but it could help him
"Striking the Heisman pose" does nothing towards helping you win the actual awared. It helps you look like a dumbass but other than that does nothing else.
What about Brady Quinn noones even talking about him.He just threw fro 6 tds and for like 468 yards.I think he might have had the best weekend besides Mizzs QB who threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 200
What about Cody Hodges? His stats dwarf those of any other QB in the country.

Reason why he's not being considered: Numbers don't tell the whole story.

D-ReK
10-23-2005, 02:00 PM
"Striking the Heisman pose" does nothing towards helping you win the actual awared. It helps you look like a dumbass but other than that does nothing else.

I beg to differ...It worked wonders for Kellen Winslow in his last year at Miami...

Youngstown Colt
10-23-2005, 02:21 PM
The Heisman pose is pathetic. Desmond Howard was one of my favorite college players, but it's a no class move to do that pose.

Who knows, maybe it was a tribute to Reggie Bush.

Huge
10-23-2005, 02:22 PM
I beg to differ...It worked wonders for Kellen Winslow in his last year at Miami...
Good stuff. :D

thefuture17
10-28-2005, 09:37 PM
Marcus vick played exectiponly well on thursday threw for i think 280 and ran for 50 more.He impressed me by changing the plays making some great passes.I think if VT beats miami in a lobsided game then they could get a chance in the top 2

tulexan
10-28-2005, 09:56 PM
What impressed me about him is how much better he understands the game than his brother. There was one play where he recognized the generous cushion that a DB was giving his wideout and audibled his route to get the easy completion and first down. I'm really looking forward to the VaTech/Miami game next week. VaTech destroying Miami on national television would get some serious votes. It looked like they weren't even trying against BC and were just toying with them the entire time.

thefuture17
10-31-2005, 08:31 PM
Whos gonna be in the National championship game Virgina tech vs Usc Texas vs Usc or Virgina tech vs Texas.I personally think that it will be Virgina tech vs Usc if Tech blows out Miami but if they dont it will be Texas vs Usc

real
10-31-2005, 08:49 PM
i think it'll be usc and texas...

MorKnolle
11-01-2005, 04:46 PM
Devin Hester and Tedd Ginn are both similar. They are amazing athletes that don't really have a position. Both are great returners and have been used as WRs and CBs but aren't particularly good fundamentally at either position, so it will be interesting to see where they go in the draft. I woudl think that both will likely stay at CB/KR/PR.