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aliaspgk
10-17-2005, 09:50 AM
I was in my car listening to 610 at 7 this morning and David Carr came on for a suprise interview after he had just finished his early morning workout. I was extremely please/somewhat suprised to actually hear some real insight from him instead of the usual "we are disapointed" or "my guys are still fightin their tails off" type cliche quotes. He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

While I was watching last night and listening to him this morning I am sure that David Carr is the absoulte last of our problems. If he is given time and a reciever is even remotely open he fires a strike. People will come on this board and try to say fancy things like "he doesnt go through his progressions" or "he cant read the defense" but he does all he can with the horrid system we have set up around him. I saw actually somewhat relax in the pocket and actually go through his progressions and reads (all 3 of them) for the first time and he was blindsided by Grant Wistrom from behind. People will say he held onto the ball to long but do you watch the best quarterbacks in the league? They have time to look for the their 2nd and 3rd options without being leveled. If Manning lined up behind our line and dropped back he would blindsided in the exact same way...watch the Colts play and see if Manning has to "get the ball out in 2.3 seconds" the way Carr is forced to.

I was just dumbfounded by the fact that for the last two years we havent addressed personal and instead all we read about from the team is how we are going to work on short timing routes to get the ball out of Davids hands as quickly as possible. Thats just poor overall vision from our management and coaches-you dont address the fact that you have a terrible but instead try to devise an offensive scheme where you continually have to drop back and get the ball off to a reciever or rb only 5 yards away very quickly so you dont get sacked. I mean I thought it was embarassing that all offseason that I kept reading that we were blowing horns off in practice to tell David to get rid of the ball----BLOCK FOR HIM AND LET HIM MAKE A PLAY. When he has time he has as much ability as anyone, he throws hard and crisp over the middle of the field and the throws that he sails are because he would rather not throw an interception towards a reciever who isnt even close to open. If you watched Bradfords fades towards the sidelines...my god he cant get open. He can sometimes steam roll down the field but he cant shake anyone in an intermediate route.

From the interview and his play I hope Carr keeps his head up...because he is getting nothing work with. Period.

Cjeremy635
10-17-2005, 10:09 AM
Yeah, I listened to that interview as well and I caught another interesting point. Did you hear his response when he was asked about changiing the play at the line of scrimmage? He said he's allwed to change from a running play to a running play. Go figure...I swear that's what he said. He said he can change the side the play is designed to run to and that's basically all he can do. You could definately hear the frustration in his voice. For once I would just like to hear what these players have to say with the gloves off. :texflag:

Runner
10-17-2005, 10:10 AM
Are you telling me that the guy got back around 4:00am and went and worked out when he got back, thats big.



Many of the players do that; if they don't they go home, take a nap, and have to do that mandatory workout later. It is tough to do, but if they do the workout after getting off the plane they have the rest of Monday off leading into their normal Tuesday off day.

aliaspgk
10-17-2005, 10:36 AM
I also heard when Carr said that he is only allowed to check runnings plays to the other side of the line. He also said that he has talked to his friends that are other qbs in the nfl and they have told him that he is not going to be successful with an offense that is incapable of even taking a shot at a big play. He just sounds frustrated with how everything is being run and he really should be...if you are an NFL quarterback and your only chance at a touchdown of over 15 yards is if your reciever gets lucky and breaks away for a long run after catching at 5 yard screen you have to be going crazy.

SESupergenius
10-17-2005, 10:49 AM
I feel bad for Carr. A few people around here and have been trying to dog Carr and it is unwarranted. Sure the guy isn't going to throw 100%, 90% 80 or even 70% of his passes, most QB's in this league don't. But to when you are playing teams that are pinning their ears back and getting the QB, he has no options. Our offensive scheme is sickening. It painfully obvious why we can't beat teams that play cover 2, we max protect and only have 2 recievers out, and DD to check down to. Everyone in the world can see that our line is the problem, some people just aren't getting it.

touttail
10-17-2005, 10:58 AM
I was in my car listening to 610 at 7 this morning and David Carr came on for a suprise interview after he had just finished his early morning workout. I was extremely please/somewhat suprised to actually hear some real insight from him instead of the usual "we are disapointed" or "my guys are still fightin their tails off" type cliche quotes. He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

While I was watching last night and listening to him this morning I am sure that David Carr is the absoulte last of our problems. If he is given time and a reciever is even remotely open he fires a strike. People will come on this board and try to say fancy things like "he doesnt go through his progressions" or "he cant read the defense" but he does all he can with the horrid system we have set up around him. I saw actually somewhat relax in the pocket and actually go through his progressions and reads (all 3 of them) for the first time and he was blindsided by Grant Wistrom from behind. People will say he held onto the ball to long but do you watch the best quarterbacks in the league? They have time to look for the their 2nd and 3rd options without being leveled. If Manning lined up behind our line and dropped back he would blindsided in the exact same way...watch the Colts play and see if Manning has to "get the ball out in 2.3 seconds" the way Carr is forced to.

I was just dumbfounded by the fact that for the last two years we havent addressed personal and instead all we read about from the team is how we are going to work on short timing routes to get the ball out of Davids hands as quickly as possible. Thats just poor overall vision from our management and coaches-you dont address the fact that you have a terrible but instead try to devise an offensive scheme where you continually have to drop back and get the ball off to a reciever or rb only 5 yards away very quickly so you dont get sacked. I mean I thought it was embarassing that all offseason that I kept reading that we were blowing horns off in practice to tell David to get rid of the ball----BLOCK FOR HIM AND LET HIM MAKE A PLAY. When he has time he has as much ability as anyone, he throws hard and crisp over the middle of the field and the throws that he sails are because he would rather not throw an interception towards a reciever who isnt even close to open. If you watched Bradfords fades towards the sidelines...my god he cant get open. He can sometimes steam roll down the field but he cant shake anyone in an intermediate route.

From the interview and his play I hope Carr keeps his head up...because he is getting nothing work with. Period.

what do you mean we did nothing personel wise. We drafted Hodgon and got Riley? What else did you expect Casserly and Capers to do??? LOL :rofl:


bobby 119C :brickwall

Reddevil63
10-17-2005, 11:19 AM
I was in my car listening to 610 at 7 this morning and David Carr came on for a suprise interview after he had just finished his early morning workout. I was extremely please/somewhat suprised to actually hear some real insight from him instead of the usual "we are disapointed" or "my guys are still fightin their tails off" type cliche quotes. He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

While I was watching last night and listening to him this morning I am sure that David Carr is the absoulte last of our problems. If he is given time and a reciever is even remotely open he fires a strike. People will come on this board and try to say fancy things like "he doesnt go through his progressions" or "he cant read the defense" but he does all he can with the horrid system we have set up around him. I saw actually somewhat relax in the pocket and actually go through his progressions and reads (all 3 of them) for the first time and he was blindsided by Grant Wistrom from behind. People will say he held onto the ball to long but do you watch the best quarterbacks in the league? They have time to look for the their 2nd and 3rd options without being leveled. If Manning lined up behind our line and dropped back he would blindsided in the exact same way...watch the Colts play and see if Manning has to "get the ball out in 2.3 seconds" the way Carr is forced to.

I was just dumbfounded by the fact that for the last two years we havent addressed personal and instead all we read about from the team is how we are going to work on short timing routes to get the ball out of Davids hands as quickly as possible. Thats just poor overall vision from our management and coaches-you dont address the fact that you have a terrible but instead try to devise an offensive scheme where you continually have to drop back and get the ball off to a reciever or rb only 5 yards away very quickly so you dont get sacked. I mean I thought it was embarassing that all offseason that I kept reading that we were blowing horns off in practice to tell David to get rid of the ball----BLOCK FOR HIM AND LET HIM MAKE A PLAY. When he has time he has as much ability as anyone, he throws hard and crisp over the middle of the field and the throws that he sails are because he would rather not throw an interception towards a reciever who isnt even close to open. If you watched Bradfords fades towards the sidelines...my god he cant get open. He can sometimes steam roll down the field but he cant shake anyone in an intermediate route.

From the interview and his play I hope Carr keeps his head up...because he is getting nothing work with. Period.
Excellent post, I hope everybody on this board reads it so they can realize that QB is the least of the Texans problems right now.

Malloy
10-17-2005, 11:24 AM
When is capers going to be on 610 tonight btw ?

Vinny
10-17-2005, 11:27 AM
When is capers going to be on 610 tonight btw ?I believe his show is in the 5 o'clock hour.

Malloy
10-17-2005, 11:29 AM
I believe his show is in the 5 o'clock hour.

That's midnight here, thanks a boon :)

5genTexan
10-17-2005, 11:41 AM
I agree with most everyone on this thread. David Carr is NOT the problem. Good grief, he say's "Hike!" and he's running for his life! It is really pathetic to watch. I truly think that maybe, just maybe, he should step very slightly past the usual, politically correct cliches and say something to get the management of this team thinking about a different direction. On the interview this morning he was leaning toward it, but didn't quite take the step. I know, I know, we don't need discontent on the offense, but we cannot get any worse than we are right now. Someone needs to livin' the place up a little, maybe start some controversy. We're dying over here! :fans:

Runner
10-17-2005, 11:44 AM
but we cannot get any worse than we are right now.

My gawd man! Don't say that! At least one person has said that after every game - look where it's gotten us.

Texans Pride
10-17-2005, 11:53 AM
I have a question and I am asking it seriously:

Is there a rule that the players can not speak out against the coaching staff or the team?

It seems there are a lot of players that get interviewed and they "hold back" what they really want to say. or what should be said.

Is there a reason for this as far as backlash or repercussion?

Blake
10-17-2005, 12:01 PM
I agree with most everyone on this thread. David Carr is NOT the problem. Good grief, he say's "Hike!" and he's running for his life! It is really pathetic to watch.

I disagree. Carr is not THE problem, but he is part of the problem at this point in time.

I still think he holds on to the ball too long. I still think he scrambles when he has good protection. And I still think he needs to work on his reads.

I dont want to get rid of Carr. Heck, I even want to keep him next year, which will be an 8 million roster bonus. I just want to build up his walls. And get him a new coaching staff who will play to win.

Would Mike Leach be interested in a coaching position?

Reddevil63
10-17-2005, 12:02 PM
I have a question and I am asking it seriously:

Is there a rule that the players can not speak out against the coaching staff or the team?


I think its kind of an unwritten rule. With that said, Im glad Carr said that much atleast so we can have a better idea of whats really going on, why he only audibles to run plays and why he dumps it to Davis so often. Its not that has cant do it, thats just what they tell him to do.

rockabilly
10-17-2005, 12:15 PM
I was a Carr questioner in the beginning of the season. But after seeing him last night...and re-watching the game this morning, I see that most of the problems are around him and the options he has.

And his interview this morning confirmed that. My avatar says it, and it has been said a million times on this board: It is the Capers system.

keyfro
10-17-2005, 12:15 PM
THE TEXANS DRAFT...good question about coach leach...the answer is no...he should stay at texas tech so that my boys there keep winning...but the texans might want to look at how coach leach sets up the offensive line there...ok everyone knows our o-line can't pass block worth a darn...so what the line coach should look at is texas tech's o-lineman's splits...they're freakin 3-5 yards between lineman...why is that big...because when you add 10 yds for the rush end to run around he's less affective...ie dwight freeney...i think the texan's staff should really look into this...because the lineman we have at tech are 5th rounders at best and they produce...it's a lot easier to make a defender run 10-12 yds and get the ball off than 8-10 yds...and when you get a blitz up the middle it's easier to push him on his side and knock him off balance than to take it head on...it just takes timing...once you get that down carr's pocket will look like techs...just ask kansas state how they liked it

Vinny
10-17-2005, 12:18 PM
I was a Carr questioner in the beginning of the season. But after seeing him last night...and re-watching the game this morning, I see that most of the problems are around him and the options he has.

And his interview this morning confirmed that. My avatar says it, and it has been said a million times on this board: It is the Capers system.I'd like to see Carr with another staff also....but I'd like to see us have some honest competition for every starting position on this team. Many people just pointed at Gaffney as incompetent but when he is the first option in this offense he catches 10 passes. That kind of blows up the theory that Gaffney isn't good enough....he just needs to be the primary read to get the ball. Like it or not I think Carr will be here for two more years....we will all get to see him work with another staff...but this year will continue to be more 170 passing games with 10-13 points a game.

vtech9
10-17-2005, 12:27 PM
this was by far the best game for Carr. He didn't hold onto the ball as long as he usually does, and he didn't run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage to get charged with a sack. He didn't run out of his pocket unnecessarily as often as he has been doing. He even stepped up into the pocket a few times.

So Carr wasn't THE problem in this game, but he was still PART of the problem.

McKinney is still a waste. It was glaringly obvious last night when he moved to left guard and got blown up. Hodgden looked a hell of a lot better at center than McKinney has. Drew had a couple penalties, but he held his own blocking, which is more than I can say about Steve. Drew had one bad connection with Carr, but from watching it in slo-mo, it looked more like Carr left too quickly and just didn't secure the ball. From what I saw, Drew put the ball where it needed to be.

Overall, there really isn't very many positive things to say about this game. Dunta played a good game, and Peek had his moments, but other than the TD by DD, I can't say much else.

Reddevil63
10-17-2005, 12:43 PM
So Carr wasn't THE problem in this game, but he was still PART of the problem.

Id say this offense he is forced to run is part of the problem

HoustonFan
10-17-2005, 12:51 PM
I just hope that he survives the rest of this season. And I really hope McNair take a look at this board some time.

billtxus
10-17-2005, 01:15 PM
Sure there is a rule, its the $8 million dollar rule in this case. The team can pick up an $8 million dollar option at the end of the year for Carr. You don't think he would jeopordize this to speak his mind on management. If he came out and trashed management he would be out of here faster than you can say Billy Wagner. I don't blame him that's a lot of cash, but its certainly one reason why he is always positive about the team. Every player has this hangin over their heads more or less, since the owners can renegotiate or void contracts any time they want, but players don't have the same freedom.

aliaspgk
10-17-2005, 01:22 PM
Also if you come out and start bashing management and the team you move into the realm of being labeled a "trouble maker" who is uncoachable and not a team player. You risk the chance of becoming a Terrel Owens and even the guys who arent premadonnas like Owens still get the same label of being a trouble maker. Look what has happened to Lavar Arrington in DC...solid guy who questioned the coaching and is now being represented as a bad guy trying to sabatoge the team. Players have to choose their words and actions carefully because the worst thing these days...from a future contract standpoint and a media standpoint is to grab the label of a trouble maker.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 01:23 PM
Sure there is a rule, its the $8 million dollar rule in this case. The team can pick up an $8 million dollar option at the end of the year for Carr. You don't think he would jeopordize this to speak his mind on management. If he came out and trashed management he would be out of here faster than you can say Billy Wagner. I don't blame him that's a lot of cash, but its certainly one reason why he is always positive about the team. Every player has this hangin over their heads more or less, since the owners can renegotiate or void contracts any time they want, but players don't have the same freedom.
Carr isn't about the money if that is what you are implying. He isn't just going to go around hammering everyone either...He is classier than that. Here is a good piece on Carr's option done by Keith at hpf. Keith has the keenest insight on the cap as it pertains to our future and Carr.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout119.html

WildBlackBear32
10-17-2005, 01:25 PM
Carr isn't about the money if that is what you are implying.

That has been my impression of David since day one, watching his pieces before the draft and right after the draft. The guy didnt hold out and even agreed to his contract BEFORE the draft. That says something about the guy's character.

SESupergenius
10-17-2005, 01:25 PM
Vinny what is your take now on Carr, do you still feel the offensive line is taking more than their share of the blame and Carr still is a big part of the problem?

Malloy
10-17-2005, 01:31 PM
That has been my impression of David since day one, watching his pieces before the draft and right after the draft. The guy didnt hold out and even agreed to his contract BEFORE the draft. That says something about the guy's character.

I guess you could also call it "job security". I too would get the contract hammered down if I already knew that someone was going to hire me.

Personally it does not imply greed, not in the least.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 01:31 PM
Vinny what is your take now on Carr, do you still feel the offensive line is taking more than their share of the blame and Carr still is a big part of the problem?I think we will resign Carr at this point, get a new coaching staff and draft a top lineman. I think Carr deserves another shot at this thing but I still have reservations about his decision making. I don't think Carr is elite, but I also don't think it's fair to judge him in an absolute manner either. I think he locks on to his first read way too much and is a bit mechanical and not real instinctive. Carr played ok last night but everyone gets excited about 170 yards passing out of Carr. Many people just pointed to Gaffney as an excuse for Carr not having targets but when he is the first read in the offense he catches 10 passes....so that kind of blows up the theory that AJ is the only guy who gets open on the Texans. People need to get over the Gaffney excuse. In aprox 50 starts, if you aren't the first read or the dump pass you just don't get the ball with Carr at the helm. Will that be different under a different coaching staff and a better line? probably - We will get a chance to find out, but I would try to bring in a veteran QB to push him and have some honest competition for the spot. The days of just handing out starting positions on potential has got to go away on this team.

SESupergenius
10-17-2005, 01:44 PM
I somewhat agree with you, but this line just doesn't allow him to check off his reads and he needs to get the ball out because of it. He has to lock on to recievers, but a lot of QB's lock on to recievers based on the play call. We can't keep looking for our primary reciever on a play to get open. Seattle started to put guys closer to line of scrimmage to take away the quick passes, but when we are only running 2 WRs out we can't spread the defense. I thought Carr did a fantastic job of locating his targets with the cirmunstances given. I contend that the coaching staff is limiting his reads to quick pass because the line can not hold. The coaching staff needs to ditch the zone blocking scheme and implement a new one. Our whole scheme an overhaul because we do not have an element of surprise anywhere in our game. What we need to do is bring in a coach that takes hold of this situation and provides Carr a truer QB coach that pushes him A backup QB is not going to do that (see Kent Graham).

nunusguy
10-17-2005, 01:49 PM
I would try to bring in a veteran QB to push him and have some honest competition for the spot. The days of just handing out starting positions on potential has got to go away on this team.
I agreed with most of what you said about Carr until right here. If the Texans put 8 M on the table to exercise their option to retain Carr for multiple years,
they had better be far beyond any uncertainties he couldn't deliver without the competition of another QB pushing him to excel. If they don't feel that Carr is there man without reservation, trade him to the highest bidder and move on.

mean mark8
10-17-2005, 01:53 PM
I personally think Carr could be a really good QB if he had been taught professional football from the start. Palmer also blew it with Couch. I remember last yr when Monday Night Football went behind the scenes w/ the Rams defense before a game against the Browns. The defense said you don't have to worry about the QB looking off a safety because the Browns' QBs didn't do it. Palmer was their OC who "taught" Couch the NFL game. The NFL is different from college ball and it takes the right coaching to help a QB make the right adjustments.

I also remember our 1st yr reading a defender's comments about our offense where he said he thought we were trying to lull them to sleep w/ such a vanilla offense. Only, he started laughing because that was all we ran. Carr's development has been stunted and I don't see any reason to leave him in to be killed anymore. His confidence is shaken and rightly so. IMO, I think giving him a chance to watch from the sidelines might help him see things and maybe slow the game down for him. I don't mean for him to permanently ride the pine, but give him a breather. I know there will be lots of people saying how can benching him build his confidence. I think if anyone were to go charging into a machine gun nest with bullets flying like mosquitos around their heads, they'd appreciate a breather too.

Runner
10-17-2005, 01:56 PM
I have a question and I am asking it seriously:

Is there a rule that the players can not speak out against the coaching staff or the team?

It seems there are a lot of players that get interviewed and they "hold back" what they really want to say. or what should be said.

Is there a reason for this as far as backlash or repercussion?

Of course most players don't bluntly say what they think. That is why so many people speak in cliché in this profession.

There is a huge difference between what the players say "over beer and pizza" with friends and what they say to the press, or even to the coaches in this regime. It's just like any other job - you aren't very blunt with bosses who don't take differing opinions well, and there is a lot of money on the line with these players.

I find it hilarious when some opinions are dismissed out of hand here on this board, and proof that it is wrong is supplied by a link to a newspaper article or interview quote (this is not directed at anyone in particular; I reference articles and interviews too). Some people get very vituperative in their defense of things they see in the press or other public sources. Do we believe everything we read in the papers or on the web as much as we believe what a football player says?

Vinny
10-17-2005, 01:57 PM
I agreed with most of what you said about Carr until right here. If the Texans put 8 M on the table to exercise their option to retain Carr for multiple years,
they had better be far beyond any uncertainties he couldn't deliver without the competition of another QB pushing him to excel. If they don't feel that Carr is there man without reservation, trade him to the highest bidder and move on.The cap hit on the bonus is spread out over 2 or 3 years. Carr isn't going to be making any more than he is making now...which is too much based on his production...but I don't know of any team in the NFL that just hands important roster positions to players for half a decade without pushing them if they only pump out 150 yards a game passing (that is his average over the last 13 games).....fair or not he needs the competition.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 02:23 PM
Good point Vinny. But here is a question back at you. Is he getting paid too much for his joke of an o-line to not to block and have the living snot beat out of him every game? Have a joke of an offensive coordinator or coach? Or is he not getting paid enough to put up with all that bull****?This isn't kindergarten....Life isn't fair. 60 million dollars is quite enough to balance out being an expansion QB. Carr and his family aren’t going to go hungry in this 'unfair' situation. Is 8 million dollars smart money to pay a guy to 'manage' an offense? Not to me....but I'm not the among the Einsteins running this team.

nunusguy
10-17-2005, 02:34 PM
I totally agree that we need to draft a excellent lineman...but what I am concerned about is are we going to draft a TE this year, or are we going to get one through free agency. I think that would make a world of difference for Carr.
We need both, and more and more we will have to depend on the college
Draft to secure our talent. Looks like Todd Wade is another bust, at the very least not worth the ridiculous 10 M cash bonus we paid him last year. That's LT money and he's not even a decent RT. Perhaps the only way we can attract FA talent here is to pay huge premiums, because after this year even
less appeal for top vets to come to play for this franchise.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 02:42 PM
Nobody owes Carr bags of money. I get really ill at all the Carr apologists as much as I get sick of all the Carr bashers. Same type fan if you ask me. These problems are not all black or all white, but most people just like to be extreeeeeeme in todays culture.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 02:49 PM
But shouldn't he expect a little compensation for the horrific job of others.If 60 million isn't enough for average production I don't know what is. SIXTY MILLION.

There is a little something called the salary cap. You can't just keep paying ALL-PRO money to non ALL Pro guys since you have to pay the other players.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 02:55 PM
I'm not in the blame everyone but Carr crowd since I don't think he is all that good...so there's your answer. The offense is horrible for a number of reasons...and Carr is just not that special in my eyes....we will just have to dissagree on that. Carr is good enough to manage the team...but hes a poor mans Jake Plummer.

rittenhouserobz
10-17-2005, 03:39 PM
Here an interesting thought. Carr said they are playing max protect all game. Why not just put in Wand at TE for the running downs next to Riley or Pitts? At least we would get some use out of him out there.

Runner
10-17-2005, 03:43 PM
Because Pendry doesn't believe Wand is good enough to suit up, much less play.

And people want to promote HIM to head coach?

Ibar_Harry
10-17-2005, 04:37 PM
I'm not in the blame everyone but Carr crowd since I don't think he is all that good...so there's your answer. The offense is horrible for a number of reasons...and Carr is just not that special in my eyes....we will just have to dissagree on that. Carr is good enough to manage the team...but hes a poor mans Jake Plummer.

I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny. I think you are seeing the results of an inept coaching staff. But you don't and that's where we differ. Our defense is horrid and so is our offense. Our coaching on both sides of the ball is beyond belief and you have called it a FEMA staff. I will agree with that assessment, so lets get rid of the FEMA staff and see what happens. I quite frankly think you will be astonished by the transformation.

touttail
10-17-2005, 04:42 PM
Who's fault is it that he isn't an all-pro...his, or the Texans? That's what I thought...it all comes back to them.


Vinny,

I have always had a problem with top draftees receiving millions of dollars without stepping out on the field to prove their worth!

bobby119C

Vinny
10-17-2005, 04:48 PM
I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny. I'm stunned. I never could put a finger on where you stood. I gotcha now though. :ok:

The FEMA Texans fits for me. It's about overofficious management that can't get out of its own way. The FEMA blast is just a way to say I think the Texans are a bloated management system that spends so much time on micromanaging little things that it doesn't do anything with any common sense and misses the simplicity of the big picture. They have made a system that is so micromanaged that nobody can think for themselves. It started with the first draft ever. Julius Peppers was the best player on the board but he didn't fit our system so we just had to mix PR in with football decisions and draft the "face of the franchise" and reach for a QB. 'System over talent' and 'form over function' gets us the "face of the Franchise" (PR) instead of building a system around the most talented players on the board. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you are a fan with a miserable team that's all you got. Watching this mess sure isn't fun. Nobody thinks for themselves at FEMA. You follow your micromanaged plan.

txnfan4eva
10-17-2005, 04:50 PM
The clean up crew does a better job at what they do than the front office does at theirs. Carr has done everything he could with the krap that management has supplied him with. I'm not apologizing for Carr, because he has screwed up during the course of his career. But shouldn't he expect a little compensation for the horrific job of others.


OK, personally I think that ALL pro athletes are grossly overpaid. Carr is lucky to be where he is and he should be grateful for being the starting QB. His compensation is that he still has a job!!! I just hate discussing pro athletes pay when I'm in the military dodging bullets, looking suspeciously at anything on the ground or people wondering if it will blow me up in another country and getting paid less then a manager at fast food restraunt!!!!!!

SESupergenius
10-17-2005, 05:08 PM
Peppers basically plays a tweener position now. I remember arguing relentlessly that both Peppers and players like Ware and Kearse would make great OLB's in a 3-4. They just have great athleticism. But I do remember not picking one over the other, I would have felt great either way with Carr or Peppers. I was a little suprised with Capers' group not picking Peppers first, because he was a defensive guy. But on the flip side you'd have to pay Peppers #1 money, and you typically don't pay OLB that kind of money in the 3-4. QB's usually make the bigger contracts.

infantrycak
10-17-2005, 05:12 PM
I think Carr is a heck of a lot better than you think Vinny. I think you are seeing the results of an inept coaching staff. But you don't and that's where we differ. Our defense is horrid and so is our offense. Our coaching on both sides of the ball is beyond belief and you have called it a FEMA staff. I will agree with that assessment, so lets get rid of the FEMA staff and see what happens. I quite frankly think you will be astonished by the transformation.

You want Carr to prove his worth, give him a bloody chance. Carr is playing a 1 on 11 game every time he steps onto the field.

Do either of you think Carr does anything wrong/has anything he needs to improve upon?

This Carr vs. the OL debate gets sooooo old. As far as I am concerned anyone who wants to place all the blame at either end just isn't getting it.

txnfan4eva
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
Thanks big!! I didn't get to see any interviews as I'm not in Houston so I don't get much info about interviews and such.

eriadoc
10-17-2005, 05:38 PM
I think Carr has a great deal he can improve on and does quite a bit wrong. I don't believe he's been given proper coaching or a fair chance to improve appropriately.

Oh, and though I usually disagree with Vinny (about Carr) in most respects, I take a different path of reasoning than he does on the money issue and end up in the same place. $8 million for what he's done to date is excessive. I really hope they renegotiate and keep him around, if they fix the line and hire a good coaching staff. Carr will get a chance elsewhere and he'll show us what he should have been, otherwise.

infantrycak
10-17-2005, 06:04 PM
I hold Carr responsible every time he screws up. I always have. I hold the o-line responsible, the coaching staff, management. All of them. And I'm not holding just one to blame. But I do blame Carr's problems on the line, because guess what, they are the ones who cause it.

So all Carr's problems are the line? I can understand some, maybe even most, but what I was asking for the ones that are not. Behind the Seahawks, Indy or Pittsburgh OL's is he perfect? I think not.

SESupergenius
10-17-2005, 06:07 PM
Hasselback wasn't perfect behind his and he has a an awesome line. Carr is not perfect either, but maybe responsible for the play no coming together. He's responsible for his incomplete passes and decisions, not the breakdown of the plays.

Ibar_Harry
10-17-2005, 06:14 PM
I'm stunned. I never could put a finger on where you stood. I gotcha now though. :ok:

The FEMA Texans fits for me. It's about overofficious management that can't get out of its own way. The FEMA blast is just a way to say I think the Texans are a bloated management system that spends so much time on micromanaging little things that it doesn't do anything with any common sense and misses the simplicity of the big picture. They have made a system that is so micromanaged that nobody can think for themselves. It started with the first draft ever. Julius Peppers was the best player on the board but he didn't fit our system so we just had to mix PR in with football decisions and draft the "face of the franchise" and reach for a QB. 'System over talent' and 'form over function' gets us the "face of the Franchise" (PR) instead of building a system around the most talented players on the board. Hindsight is 20/20, but when you are a fan with a miserable team that's all you got. Watching this mess sure isn't fun. Nobody thinks for themselves at FEMA. You follow your micromanaged plan.

You make my point well, Vinny. My point is until you get rid of this staff there is no way to really evauate the players themselves. I believe they are all a product of this very inept system. As such you really can't tell whether Carr is doing what he shouldn't or he's doing what they told him to do despite what he might think. Other players are not performing and that translates as trouble for the QB. Same goes for the defense. My belief is that this staff is so inept you can't evaluate anybody playing on the field. Even DROB might be looking better than we think simply because who he's covering. And you are right when you say this is a FEMA like organization where noone thinks for himself - or I might add - can think for himself. Get competent coaching and and and O-line then if Carr fails I will agree with you. I think you wanted a different style of football with a different emphasis and you are just as bias as I am.........................

infantrycak
10-17-2005, 06:34 PM
FYI--Capers just said 8 of Carr's incompletions yesterday were throwaways due to pressure. That accounts for 8 of 14 incompletions.

Ibar--thanks for not responding again. The sound of the silence is deafening.

TexansRoll
10-17-2005, 08:36 PM
Casserly's been trying to pull the wool over our eyes from day one. He'll blame everything on everyone but who it belongs to, him. David Carr is a great quarterback with a lot of skills and potential. Get the guy a line that can block and it's on. Until then, we'll never know his true potential. Either way we can continue to expect garbage decisions from Casserly on players who will do us no good at all.

Vinny
10-17-2005, 10:01 PM
Ibar--thanks for not responding again. The sound of the silence is deafening.
Those guys have a lot to say except when you ask them to break down the player or the game....hard to comment on things you don't see much of.

Honoring Earl 34
10-17-2005, 11:02 PM
:texflag: Whoever runs this team next season needs to evaluate this situation starting now . If they deem Carr is not damaged beyond repair then pay him . But you have to have an OL with some talent .

Walter Jones and Hutchinson I believe were both # 1 picks for the Seahawks . I've read that OT was one of the easiest positions to judge .

Whatevers wrong with the players has now reached epidemic proportions . They have Quit .

Bassinguy
10-17-2005, 11:13 PM
I was in my car listening to 610 at 7 this morning and David Carr came on for a suprise interview after he had just finished his early morning workout. I was extremely please/somewhat suprised to actually hear some real insight from him instead of the usual "we are disapointed" or "my guys are still fightin their tails off" type cliche quotes. He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

While I was watching last night and listening to him this morning I am sure that David Carr is the absoulte last of our problems. If he is given time and a reciever is even remotely open he fires a strike. People will come on this board and try to say fancy things like "he doesnt go through his progressions" or "he cant read the defense" but he does all he can with the horrid system we have set up around him. I saw actually somewhat relax in the pocket and actually go through his progressions and reads (all 3 of them) for the first time and he was blindsided by Grant Wistrom from behind. People will say he held onto the ball to long but do you watch the best quarterbacks in the league? They have time to look for the their 2nd and 3rd options without being leveled. If Manning lined up behind our line and dropped back he would blindsided in the exact same way...watch the Colts play and see if Manning has to "get the ball out in 2.3 seconds" the way Carr is forced to.

I was just dumbfounded by the fact that for the last two years we havent addressed personal and instead all we read about from the team is how we are going to work on short timing routes to get the ball out of Davids hands as quickly as possible. Thats just poor overall vision from our management and coaches-you dont address the fact that you have a terrible but instead try to devise an offensive scheme where you continually have to drop back and get the ball off to a reciever or rb only 5 yards away very quickly so you dont get sacked. I mean I thought it was embarassing that all offseason that I kept reading that we were blowing horns off in practice to tell David to get rid of the ball----BLOCK FOR HIM AND LET HIM MAKE A PLAY. When he has time he has as much ability as anyone, he throws hard and crisp over the middle of the field and the throws that he sails are because he would rather not throw an interception towards a reciever who isnt even close to open. If you watched Bradfords fades towards the sidelines...my god he cant get open. He can sometimes steam roll down the field but he cant shake anyone in an intermediate route.

From the interview and his play I hope Carr keeps his head up...because he is getting nothing work with. Period.
I've been saying the same thing for 2 years. Glad someone else agrees. Incidently, so did Joe Theismann on ESPN.

Bassinguy
10-17-2005, 11:14 PM
Yeah, I listened to that interview as well and I caught another interesting point. Did you hear his response when he was asked about changiing the play at the line of scrimmage? He said he's allwed to change from a running play to a running play. Go figure...I swear that's what he said. He said he can change the side the play is designed to run to and that's basically all he can do. You could definately hear the frustration in his voice. For once I would just like to hear what these players have to say with the gloves off. :texflag:
We probably won't ever get to hear that response.

Bassinguy
10-17-2005, 11:16 PM
I feel bad for Carr. A few people around here and have been trying to dog Carr and it is unwarranted. Sure the guy isn't going to throw 100%, 90% 80 or even 70% of his passes, most QB's in this league don't. But to when you are playing teams that are pinning their ears back and getting the QB, he has no options. Our offensive scheme is sickening. It painfully obvious why we can't beat teams that play cover 2, we max protect and only have 2 recievers out, and DD to check down to. Everyone in the world can see that our line is the problem, some people just aren't getting it.
Ditto that.

Bassinguy
10-17-2005, 11:22 PM
I have a question and I am asking it seriously:

Is there a rule that the players can not speak out against the coaching staff or the team?

It seems there are a lot of players that get interviewed and they "hold back" what they really want to say. or what should be said.

Is there a reason for this as far as backlash or repercussion?
I'm sure it's more of an unwritten rule than anything else. Of course, if they did open up, they'd probably be on the trading block for being a dissenter. Someone does need to open up though, and maybe get management's attention. I'd hate to see the coaching staff changed now, however, it would give them a chance to organize a search for a new head coach and not have to do it in a rush. I say Do It Now.

Nighthawk
10-18-2005, 12:43 AM
He came out and said that they have been forced to run max protection every play and while they are doing this they basically eliminate the majority of what they can do on offense. He talked about how he only has 2 recievers going anywhere down the field, one running a fade or out towards the sidelines and one over the center of the field and with max protection on they either have to be open, which is not likely, or he looks for dominick for a dump or has to eat the ball. He said (roughly) that he is unable to try and get the ball down the field because they cant run anything that is not max protection or he will go down.

You may think this is thoughtful and forthright, but to me it sounds like yet another excuse in a list of exceuses as long as your arm. Carr is very much a part of the problem. Maybe he is hamstrung by the coaching staff (I don't doubt this) but good, successful, smart, quick QBs get around all the restraints and get their teams going. Carr didn't look rotten Sunday, but he has looked bad a lot so far. He needs to go when the coaches and GM go. We need a fresh start here. I feel sorry for him that he got drafted here and had to play under these conditions (Capers & Co) up till now. Maybe he can still have a career elsewhere if we let him go. We certainly can't pay him the money due in his contract when he has done no better than any journeyman QB would have done.

Malloy
10-18-2005, 04:42 AM
Everyone in the world can see that our line is the problem, some people just aren't getting it.

That would be an oxymoron :)

SESupergenius
10-18-2005, 09:34 AM
You can see, and just not get it just like you can hear Jimmy but you can listen to Jimy. :)

rittenhouserobz
10-19-2005, 09:24 AM
Whatevers wrong with the players has now reached epidemic proportions . They have Quit .

If you think they have quit now, then what will it be like if we lose to Inday and then Cleveland. That will make us 0-7 and we will have to face Jax then Indy on the road again. Making us a possible 0-9. After that we come home to face KC at night , then STL. Now we'll be 0-11. Next up. Away Baltimore and Ten. By this time we could easily be 0-13 or 1-12. :crying: From this point to the end of the season I just think the players will just be wanting this nightmare to end.

Crank_It_Up
10-19-2005, 02:32 PM
I'd like to see Carr with another staff also....but I'd like to see us have some honest competition for every starting position on this team. Many people just pointed at Gaffney as incompetent but when he is the first option in this offense he catches 10 passes. That kind of blows up the theory that Gaffney isn't good enough....he just needs to be the primary read to get the ball. Like it or not I think Carr will be here for two more years....we will all get to see him work with another staff...but this year will continue to be more 170 passing games with 10-13 points a game.I like Gaffney, he goes after the ball and comes up with it... it's downright refreshing to see.