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swisher
10-15-2005, 07:49 PM
From Dr. Z's Mailbag:

Andrew of Wolverhampton, U.K., would like to know if the problem in Houston is David Carr holding the ball too long, or a hopeless O-line. The latter. When his protection was OK, and he was in rhythm, he got the ball out on time. And I remember something the old Jets' QB, Ken O'Brien, once told me. He used to get sacked a lot early in his career. Everybody used to tell him to throw the ball away, get rid of it. Once I asked him straight up why he didn't do it. "Because when you're a young quarterback," he said, "you have to get accepted by your teammates. And if they feel that you're getting rid of the ball too early, they'll question your courage and then you're dead." I think Carr's courage is way beyond question now. FOR GOD'S SAKE, DAVID, GET RID OF IT!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/10/13/mailbag/1.html

F-minus67
10-15-2005, 07:58 PM
We all know that Carr has courage for playing behind the o line he has for the past few years. But sometime he does hold on to it for to long.

texan279
10-15-2005, 08:12 PM
How can he hold onto the ball too long when he doesn't even have enough time to make a 3 step drop half of the time? Do we need to implement a 1 step drop just for Carr? Look, I haven't been the biggest Carr supporter the past couple of months, but I have come to realize he is not the only one to blame for the offense's problems...

Reddevil63
10-15-2005, 08:17 PM
I say they run a shot-gun formation and stick Carr back as far as they do the punter. It would take them atleast 3 seconds to get back to him. [/sarcasm]

Hervoyel
10-15-2005, 09:07 PM
So many people seem to be under the impression that this is a case of "one or the other". It's not. "Yes" David's offensive line stinks and again "Yes" David Carr holds on to the ball too long. He doesn't do it every time he drops back to pass just like the offensive line doesn't collapse in 2.6 seconds every time he drops back to pass.

Sadly when they give him time he often holds on to the ball too long and of course sometimes they don't give him enough time and, well we don't know what would have happened those times because he's crushed under a defensive lineman.

Suffice to say that if you could put David Carr behind the Oilers best offensive line ever (and they had some good ones) there would still be some problems. They would improve though. Right now I don't think we're seeing any progress at all in David or the line.

Bubbajwp
10-15-2005, 09:20 PM
So many people seem to be under the impression that this is a case of "one or the other". It's not. "Yes" David's offensive line stinks and again "Yes" David Carr holds on to the ball too long. He doesn't do it every time he drops back to pass just like the offensive line doesn't collapse in 2.6 seconds every time he drops back to pass.

Sadly when they give him time he often holds on to the ball too long and of course sometimes they don't give him enough time and, well we don't know what would have happened those times because he's crushed under a defensive lineman.

Suffice to say that if you could put David Carr behind the Oilers best offensive line ever (and they had some good ones) there would still be some problems. They would improve though. Right now I don't think we're seeing any progress at all in David or the line.
IMO most of Davids problems would go away if he had a better oline. It wouldnt happen instantly but its hard to get on a roll or be consistent when you get sacke 1 out of every 5 pass atempts.

blockhead83
10-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Agreed, there's absolutely no way for Carr to establish any consistency in the passing game, besides consistent failure, with the o-line in it's current state. Granted, Carr attributes to our pressure problems by not having good pocket presence and holding onto the ball for too long, but when he has to run for his live atleast once every three downs he has no chance to get a rhythm.

touttail
10-16-2005, 04:40 AM
Coaching???????????????
Carr is a good roll out passer. During the Cincy game, our first series, Carr did two roll out passes and connected for good yardage. We stopped running it for some reason, even though it was working. Why did the coaches quit the roll out pass?

bobby 119C :brickwall

Vinny
10-16-2005, 07:08 AM
The problem with roll outs are that they can be taken away easily if you anticipate them defensively. Frankly, I don't think he is especially good rolling out...but he is miserable in the pocket, so he we roll him out so he only has to look at half the field.

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2005, 08:38 AM
The problem with roll outs are that they can be taken away easily if you anticipate them defensively. Frankly, I don't think he is especially good rolling out...but he is miserable in the pocket, so he we roll him out so he only has to look at half the field.

I thought that's why Denver thought Plummer was a fit for them, because when employing the zone blocking scheme you need a roll out passer, or at least a nimble one, to avoid the pressure affored by that blocking scheme. I know you don't feel that way, but that's my understanding of it. I will grant you that with the Texans that I've said it's all over when the other team realizes what we are doing and defends it as you say. I've said that in earlier posts during earlier games. No, Vinny the real problem is the line and the inability of Carr to have and build the confidence to deliver the ball. He had it at state, but then he had a guy like Mankins at left tackle blocking for him. Mankins was a mean SOB who didn't let anybody get to him. Isn't Mankins starting for NE as a rookie, albiet at a different position, but never the less starting? Again we will agree to disagree about one part, but again I will totally agree with you that we are inept at blocking the defenders once they adjust to whatever scheme we employ. Again that's the whole problem with this coaching staff. When the other team adjusts we are at a loss to make any further adjustsments to counter what the other team is doing. We are extemely inflexible and that has been taken note of by everyone. Capers should put that on his note pad........................

infantrycak
10-16-2005, 08:41 AM
I thought that's why Denver thought Plummer was a fit for them, because when employing the zone blocking scheme you need a roll out passer, or at least a nimble one, to avoid the pressure affored by that blocking scheme. I know you don't feel that way, but that's my understanding of it.

That is your understanding from one other MB poster who also has it incorrect and who won't provide any support for that position. How about providing a source that says zone run blocking affects the pass blocking or requires a mobile QB?

Vinny
10-16-2005, 08:59 AM
That is your understanding from one other MB poster who also has it incorrect and who won't provide any support for that position. How about providing a source that says zone run blocking affects the pass blocking or requires a mobile QB? Here is Mark Schlereth (long time NFL lineman) talking about how most teams run zone blocking schemes. The posters who keep dogging the scheme don't have a clue to what they are talking about.
Every NFL team runs zone blocking. The Redskins are not the exception. The coaching staff isn't huddled in a dark closet, collectively scratching their heads in amazement. Gibbs hasn't called a clandestine gathering of bright NFL minds to enlighten him on this strange new technique called "zone blocking."

Zone blocking was around before Gibbs cut his teeth in this league. The "counter trey" -- the play associated with the Redskins' halcyon days -- is not, never has been, and never will be the staple of Gibbs' offense. It's an adjunct, a complementary play meant to take advantage of teams that overpursue to stop the zone play.

In my four years as a starting guard under Gibbs I don't ever recall a game in which we ran more counter plays than zone plays.

I've heard the 'Portis can't run the counter discussion' ad nauseam. There's simply nothing to it.

In an extensive four-game breakdown of the Skins' running game last season I wasn't surprised to find they only ran counter about 25 percent of the time. The rest of the running plays? You guessed it: zone plays. http://dcexaminer.com/articles/2005/10/02/columns_sports/mark_schlereth/97schlereth.txt

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2005, 09:12 AM
Here is a start although the passing part of it is the least talked about. However, what they do show you might ask yourself about whether the Texans guards and tackles are performing together as they should.

Zone Blocking 1001 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html)

The primary emphasis is still the running game in this discussion. Are we giving the other team a key by what we are doing with the scheme? Again our our Tackles and Guards working together the way they should when pass protecting? I would ask is Pitts the problem when using Wand?

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2005, 12:33 PM
For those of you have ESPN insider here is some more on the Texan's O-line problems...

O-line problems (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=2163224&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3djoyner_kc%26id%3d 2163224)

Vinny
10-16-2005, 12:34 PM
KC Joyner has weak insight. Some of the stuff he prints is just laughable.

Ibar_Harry
10-16-2005, 12:37 PM
KC Joyner has weak insight. Some of the stuff he prints is just laughable.

So is the Texan's O-line.