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View Full Version : Punt/Kick off returner needed: Bring Back JJ!!!


Mean Machine
10-14-2005, 09:50 AM
Well, after seeing potential in Mathis as a return guy, but his being slowed by injuries....and seeing how P Buch just doesn't seem to be running straight ahead on punt returns...now is the time to DUMP HOLLINGS and bring back JJ MOSES!

JJ always made positive yards, and while he never 'broke' one all the way, he was getting us decent field postion quite a few times.
We need players to step up and perform. Nothing against Hollings but exactly what IS he doing on the Texans? He's a 4th string tailback for crying outloud. JJ contributes to the team with solid returns every time.

JfromthaTray
10-14-2005, 10:01 AM
I feel you, but the sacks would nullify the good field position just like last year.

Texans Horror
10-14-2005, 10:21 AM
I may be way off on this, but wasn't Swinton making some pretty good runs for us in the pre-season? Help me out if I have the wrong guy, but why did he get cut?

Exascor
10-14-2005, 12:04 PM
I would rather the team try to improve on offense and defense before being too concerned with our OK special teams. The special teams aren't great but it's the best unit we have right now.

rmartin65
10-14-2005, 12:06 PM
i like mathis as returner.

TheOgre
10-14-2005, 12:41 PM
I may be way off on this, but wasn't Swinton making some pretty good runs for us in the pre-season? Help me out if I have the wrong guy, but why did he get cut?

They didn't want to keep another WR on the roster. We already had AJ, Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis making it. I think they also thought that Mathis (KR) and Buchanon (PR) would be almost as good. Buchanon was one of the best PR's in the league his first two years. Mathis has 4.28 speed. All of that said, I was shocked that we let Swinton go too.

Texans Horror
10-14-2005, 01:10 PM
They didn't want to keep another WR on the roster. We already had AJ, Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis making it. I think they also thought that Mathis (KR) and Buchanon (PR) would be almost as good. Buchanon was one of the best PR's in the league his first two years. Mathis has 4.28 speed. All of that said, I was shocked that we let Swinton go too.

Thanks for the info. I thought he looked really impressive and so assumed it was a personality/economic issue. But I agree with other posters that while our special teams could use some punch, we need to get our offense and defense jumpstarted first.

Malloy
10-14-2005, 01:13 PM
They didn't want to keep another WR on the roster. We already had AJ, Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis making it. I think they also thought that Mathis (KR) and Buchanon (PR) would be almost as good. Buchanon was one of the best PR's in the league his first two years. Mathis has 4.28 speed. All of that said, I was shocked that we let Swinton go too.

Mathis performed very well against the Titans, P-buc were not succesfull in that game but did show some amazing moves. I think he'll return at least one ball this season.

From what I've seen Swinton has not been very effecient in Arizona. Does not make him a bad player though, just one that's older and more expensive than Mathis :)

Mean Machine
10-14-2005, 01:36 PM
I really like Mathis and he will be a great pick for us. My only concern right now is RIGHT NOW, he's banged up and so they're even thinking about having Dunta return kicks according to the Chronicle. JJ was a sure thing for positive yards on returns and jeesh, what good is Hollings doing, truly.
Mathis will be a good one, he just needs to get healthy.

eriadoc
10-14-2005, 01:56 PM
I would have certainly cut Hollings and kept Swinton. I guess that's why I'm not a coach or GM.

Kaiser Toro
10-14-2005, 02:03 PM
So we need JJ Moses back because why? Not sure if anyone has noticed, but we do not stop many people so there have not been many punt returns. We need better defense and maybe an offense to stay on the field before we worry about a situational player as JJ.

We have returned 6 punts to date. The team returned 40 last year. Kickoff returns have been pretty much even steven from an avergae standpoint.

I see no value in needing Moses or Swinton.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2005/regular

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2004/regular

touttail
10-14-2005, 04:46 PM
JJ Moses just doesn't have the speed. He got some good yardage, but just couldn't break away, too slow!

bobby 119C :brickwall

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 04:49 PM
JJ Moses just doesn't have the speed. He got some good yardage, but just couldn't break away, too slow!

bobby 119C :brickwall

Ahhh, yes the he is just too slow argument. OK folks, trivia question, what is the most KR's for a TD in a career by a kick returner? I mean it should be up there for some fast guy who can consistantly enough return it to make a difference for their team. So what is the record for these fleet footed saviours?

touttail
10-14-2005, 05:24 PM
Ahhh, yes the he is just too slow argument. OK folks, trivia question, what is the most KR's for a TD in a career by a kick returner? I mean it should be up there for some fast guy who can consistantly enough return it to make a difference for their team. So what is the record for these fleet footed saviours?

Don't know what Dion Sanders numbers were, but they were up there on returns.

Dave Maggett
9years
3,708 yards 6 TDs on punts
5,566 yards 1 TD on kickoffs

Brian Mitchell
14, 014 yards--4 TDs on kickoffs--40 with 40+ yards
4,999 yards---9 TDs on punts--53 with 20+ yards

Billy White Shoes Johnson
1975--4 TDs on returns
1977--3 TDs on returns
1976 Pro Bowl--1TD--90 yard return--159 total return yards, still a Pro bowl record
5 punts and 2 kickoff for TDs with his first 4 years with the Oilers

Is this enough for ya!

bobby 119C

rmartin65
10-14-2005, 05:28 PM
Don't know what Dion Sanders numbers were, but they were up there on returns.

Dave Maggett
9years
3,708 yards 6 TDs on punts
5,566 yards 1 TD on kickoffs

Brian Mitchell
14, 014 yards--4 TDs on kickoffs--40 with 40+ yards
4,999 yards---9 TDs on punts--53 with 20+ yards

Billy White Shoes Johnson
1975--4 TDs on returns
1977--3 TDs on returns
1976 Pro Bowl--1TD--90 yard return--159 total return yards, still a Pro bowl record
5 punts and 2 kickoff for TDs with his first 4 years with the Oilers

Is this enough for ya!

bobby 119C
I think mathis could have those kind of numbers, if he gets healthy

touttail
10-14-2005, 05:34 PM
I think mathis could have those kind of numbers, if he gets healthy


I agree with you rmartin, he's definitely got the goods if he's not too fragile and can stay healthy!

bobby 119C :texflag:

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 06:41 PM
The answer for kick returns is 6. It was just set by Dante Hall. Umpteen thousand KR's in the NFL. Tons of home run threat guys and the record was 5 for a career for 60+ years and just got set at 6. The point being, while the idea of a home run KR threat is appealing, it really doesn't exist--not so far as it is going to affect the season of a team. Field position and not putting the ball on the ground count.

Scooter
10-14-2005, 08:45 PM
infantrycak nailed it. homerun speed is nice, but being fast (contrary to popular belief) does not automatically make someone a better player than anyone else. see corey bradford. i'll always be on the moses bandwagon because he consistantly got us solid field position and didnt put the ball on the ground. that's his job, and he did it well. dont forget that without penalties, he would have ATLEAST 1 td. the NFL is built on guys that are "too old", "too slow", and "too small". heart and football instincts are what creates the elite players.

however, i've really liked the way mathis has looked so far. he moves quickly forward without hesitation and runs with his eyes down the field. i think he's going to be someone who can make a difference in games. not necessarily as a td threat, but as someone who can keep the offense in a workable field position. the blocking has been almost as bad as him as it has been for carr though, so it's going to be tough to have many miracles.

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 09:06 PM
Don't know what Dion Sanders numbers were, but they were up there on returns.

Dave Maggett
9years
3,708 yards 6 TDs on punts
5,566 yards 1 TD on kickoffs

Brian Mitchell
14, 014 yards--4 TDs on kickoffs--40 with 40+ yards
4,999 yards---9 TDs on punts--53 with 20+ yards

Billy White Shoes Johnson
1975--4 TDs on returns
1977--3 TDs on returns
1976 Pro Bowl--1TD--90 yard return--159 total return yards, still a Pro bowl record
5 punts and 2 kickoff for TDs with his first 4 years with the Oilers

Is this enough for ya!

bobby 119C

Sorry, no that does nothing for me in terms of deciding home run threat. Domanick Davis is the all time returning leader in the SEC on yards. Basically the same stats as you have. See above for the real answer.

touttail
10-15-2005, 06:45 AM
Sorry, no that does nothing for me in terms of deciding home run threat. Domanick Davis is the all time returning leader in the SEC on yards. Basically the same stats as you have. See above for the real answer.

Funny that of all the people I listed, that opposing teams were always trying to punt the ball AWAY from them because of the threat they presented!

Double D is NOT the all time returning leader in the SEC.
Double D-LSU
Punt Returns-------1126 yds.
Kick Off returns----2168 yds.
Total--------------3294 yds.
Derek Abney-Kentucky
Punt returns-------1042 yds.
Kick off returns----2315 yds.
Total-------------3357 yds.


bobby 119C

infantrycak
10-15-2005, 06:51 AM
Oops. Guess I heard punt returns somewhere and confused it with total or they said he was 2nd on total. In any event, the point is a lot of yards spells field position, not home run threat.

ArlingtonTexan
10-15-2005, 07:01 AM
I am trying to figure out how the return game is any better or worse than it has been the last 2 years. It is not that JJ Moses did not do his job at a basic level. just have not noticed an effect either way.

infantrycak
10-15-2005, 07:09 AM
So far, Buchanon is averaging 1.6 yards less than JJ, Mathis is about a yard and a half more than JJ (but has already coughed the ball up once--people forget it because we retained possession) and Morency about a yard and a half less than JJ. Mathis and Buchanon do contribute much more than JJ in their regular WR/CB duties.

touttail
10-15-2005, 08:51 AM
Oops. Guess I heard punt returns somewhere and confused it with total or they said he was 2nd on total. In any event, the point is a lot of yards spells field position, not home run threat.

I will agree with you that field position is great on returns. It's also nice to have a homerun threat the opposing teams fear. Guess we are right on both accounts---LOL

bobby 119C

touttail
10-15-2005, 08:59 AM
So far, Buchanon is averaging 1.6 yards less than JJ, Mathis is about a yard and a half more than JJ (but has already coughed the ball up once--people forget it because we retained possession) and Morency about a yard and a half less than JJ. Mathis and Buchanon do contribute much more than JJ in their regular WR/CB duties.

We both know that Buchanon and Morency is not in the same boat with JJ.
Hopefully Mathis will learn to hang on to the ball! We had fun when JJ was here. In section 119 I would yell---JJ---and everyone else would yell---Moses. Several times at the north end, he would acknowledge us by turning to us and pound his chest. This was so cool!

I bet LSU misses Double D more than we miss JJ. Skyler Green has fumbled three times on returns. Being from Louisiana I am a big LSU fan. Even fly a LSU flag at the Texans home games while tailgating.

bobby 119C

rdbrem
11-08-2005, 10:36 PM
JJ is now playing for the Cardinals. He at least temporarily is replacing some guy named... Swinton? Yeah, that Swinton. He had a good game, returning 7 kickoffs for an average of 25.3 yards. He only returned 2 punts. You don't return a lot of punts when you play for the Cardinals either.

But they did like him.

Double Barrel
11-08-2005, 11:42 PM
I agree with ArlingtonTexan, haven't seen much of a difference either way. Guess that 1.6 yard differential stat says it all.

Like infantrycak mentioned, you get more for your money from P.Buch and Mathis, and we need all the cap space we can get right now for much more important positions.

yaboycm
11-09-2005, 01:23 AM
Well, after seeing potential in Mathis as a return guy, but his being slowed by injuries....and seeing how P Buch just doesn't seem to be running straight ahead on punt returns...now is the time to DUMP HOLLINGS and bring back JJ MOSES!

JJ always made positive yards, and while he never 'broke' one all the way, he was getting us decent field postion quite a few times.
We need players to step up and perform. Nothing against Hollings but exactly what IS he doing on the Texans? He's a 4th string tailback for crying outloud. JJ contributes to the team with solid returns every time.

That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. And the Colts should look for a QB. Did you watch Mathis in the Colts game?

infantrycak
11-09-2005, 08:04 AM
That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. And the Colts should look for a QB. Did you watch Mathis in the Colts game?

Try reading when he made the comment--oops.

Malloy
11-09-2005, 08:31 AM
the joy of old topics resurfacing :)

rmartin65
11-09-2005, 05:11 PM
Mathis is just plain amazing on KR.

rittenhouserobz
11-10-2005, 07:08 AM
Injuries are not planned or JJ might still be here. The Texans have to deal with the injuries to Mathis and move on. Mathis has more TD's on ST's than JJ had his entire tiem on the team. I think Mathis is the answer. He just needs to bulk up a little.

rdbrem
11-19-2005, 11:12 PM
Mathis has more TD's on ST's than JJ had his entire tiem on the team. I think Mathis is the answer. He just needs to bulk up a little.

Mathis and Buchanon together have 3 times more fumbles than JJ did in 2 years, and it only took them half a season.

ArlingtonTexan
11-19-2005, 11:34 PM
Mathis and Buchanon together have 3 times more fumbles than JJ did in 2 years, and it only took them half a season.

Just to update from kffl.com

Cardinals | Moses Released
Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:31:43 -0800

The Arizona Cardinals have released WR/KR J.J. Moses.

HJam72
11-20-2005, 01:04 AM
I said last year that I wanted to keep JJ because he never fumbles. Did you people listen to me? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I said that you can't count on touchdown runs (no I didn't :embarrass ). I said that any new guys would fumble more often and still not get touchdowns (no :embarrass ).

OK, anyway, I said that we should keep him because he never fumbles and you people said that that's not good enough and he has to produce. Now look what happened. He went off and kicked butt until they....released him?

Anyway, that's why the Cardinals suck. So, how good a receiver was JJ anyway? :confused:

Gee, I know I've heard that name Swinton somewhere before.:idea: