PDA

View Full Version : Casserly's Future


TheOgre
10-14-2005, 07:48 AM
It seems like many of us think that this is Capers last dance. He would have to win about 2/3's of his remaining games (7-8 wins) to keep his job IMO. That seems extremely unlikely.

So my attention shift to Casserly. It is hard to know how many of the moves and decisions have been pushed by Capers and his staff, and how many are purely Casserly moves.

There are tons of other moves that he has made that are both great and horrible. How many of those decisions have been influenced by Capers and his staff? Has he struggled to find guys that fit Caper's system since he was relatively new to the 3-4 defense? The big question is, will he be around next year or is he part of the problem? Give me your take on his future.

JfromthaTray
10-14-2005, 07:53 AM
select... Reggie Bush
One of the two has to go. We either gat a GM whose philosophy is on the same page as Doms, or get a Coach who's philosophy on the same page as Cass, or, a new coach who's also the GM (I don't know how many of you feel about that), or get both who can work together and be on the same page.

Double Barrel
10-14-2005, 09:24 AM
This is a good question, TheOgre. And it is one that is tough to find honest answers to, as well.

When selecting players, how much of the decision is Casserly's? And how much of it is from Coach Capers and staff?

Is it a 50/50 proposition? Does the coaches say we want player A, then the GM goes out and makes a deal?

Anyone have any "insider" information about the process? idonno:

swisher
10-14-2005, 09:28 AM
How often does both the HC and GM get fired at the same time?

Ibar_Harry
10-14-2005, 09:31 AM
This is a good question, TheOgre. And it is one that is tough to find honest answers to, as well.

When selecting players, how much of the decision is Casserly's? And how much of it is from Coach Capers and staff?

Is it a 50/50 proposition? Does the coaches say we want player A, then the GM goes out and makes a deal?

Anyone have any "insider" information about the process? idonno:

In this case I think Casserly is as big a victum of Capers and his coaching staff as everyone else is. They tell him who they want and he goes and gets them and signs them. Remember, we have been one of the best at getting our rookies and free agents signed. I believe the way this organization is set up that is Cass's primary responsibility. He has some input, but I believe he's trusted Capers too much and if the player doesn't fit Capers mold its a big loss anyway. Get rid of Capers and his staff and probably 90% of the problems on this ball club will go away if a competent head coach is hired....

Hervoyel
10-14-2005, 10:26 AM
It seems like many of us think that this is Capers last dance. He would have to win about 2/3's of his remaining games (7-8 wins) to keep his job IMO. That seems extremely unlikely.

So my attention shift to Casserly. It is hard to know how many of the moves and decisions have been pushed by Capers and his staff, and how many are purely Casserly moves.

There are tons of other moves that he has made that are both great and horrible. How many of those decisions have been influenced by Capers and his staff? Has he struggled to find guys that fit Caper's system since he was relatively new to the 3-4 defense? The big question is, will he be around next year or is he part of the problem? Give me your take on his future.


Here is what I think.

Next season we bring in a new coaching staff and those coaches will get to work with our existing players in mini camps, training camp, and practices through the 2006 season. What a different coaching staff can accomplish with the talent we already have on hand will tell you a lot about whether Charlie Casserly still needs to be our GM. How do the guys we have play for these new coaches? Are they able to stop all the mental errors and stupid mistakes? Do guys who came here as free agents start playing like they maybe deserved those contracts? If that happens then it was our coaching staff and Casserly stays. If they can't get anymore out of these guys than Capers did then clearly we have a problem identifying talent.

You know where that leads. "The first rule of Fire Casserly Club is that there is no Fire Casserly Club"

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 10:26 AM
In this case I think Casserly is as big a victum of Capers and his coaching staff as everyone else is. They tell him who they want and he goes and gets them and signs them.

My daughter, like many, has asked for a horse, a VW bug and many other things. As a responsible parentt it is my job to say no it isn't appropriate or the cost is too high. Casserly has failed in that job. Anybody care to really dispute that?

bckey
10-14-2005, 10:30 AM
My daughter, like many, has asked for a horse, a VW bug and many other things. As a responsible parent it is my job to say no it isn't appropriate or the cost is too high. Casserly has failed in that job. Anybody care to really dispute that?


Nope. I would say you hit the nail on the head.

Marcus
10-14-2005, 10:31 AM
That's the 20,000 question. Who should be accountable . . Casserly or Capers?

There are two schools of thought on this MB. Either this team has talented players, but have "no heart or fire" (DB :) ). Or the team simply doesn't have the talent to compete, particularly up front on both sides of the ball.

Jason Babin . . . Capers or Casserly?
Buchanon . . . Capers or Casserly
Tony Hollings. . . Capers or Casserly
Todd Wade . . . Capers or Casserly?
Charlie Clemons . . . Capers or Casserly?
Bennie Joppru . . . Capers or Casserly?

The list could go on. But how many draft picks, and how much cap money is tied up on those alone? To me, it looks like a whole slew of bad decisions in evaluating talent. But who do you point the finger at?

Bob McNair maybe? idonno:

powda
10-14-2005, 10:31 AM
i'm a fan of casserly ,but being the eternal pessimist that i am, im willing to consider he may get fired. ive seen plenty in here on "capers replacement should be..."

what about next gm candidates? anyone out there noteworthy?

Marcus
10-14-2005, 10:43 AM
My daughter, like many, has asked for a horse, a VW bug and many other things. As a responsible parent it is my job to say no it isn't appropriate or the cost is too high. Casserly has failed in that job. Anybody care to really dispute that?

Well, I would think a parent/child relationship, and a manager/employee relationship is kind like apples and oranges, wouldn't you say? I mean, in one case you are the authority, and in the other case, you are delegating that authority.

So Casserly "has failed in that job" in what respect? The 'buck stops here' thing?

Exascor
10-14-2005, 10:45 AM
I really feel that Casserly will be here next year. I'm not saying that he deserves to return or not. I just think he will be here.what about next gm candidates? anyone out there noteworthy?The only name I've heard that perks my ears up is Jimmy Johnson. He made some great deals in Dallas and seems to have a good eye for talent. I really have no clue otherwise.

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 10:59 AM
Well, I would think a parent/child relationship, and a manager/employee relationship is kind like apples and oranges, wouldn't you say? I mean, in one case you are the authority, and in the other case, you are delegating that authority.

So Casserly "has failed in that job" in what respect? The 'buck stops here' thing?

Well you can think they are different if you like obviously. I do not. IMO Capers' job is (a) to describe to Casserly what he needs/wants, i.e. give him a wish list and (b) to make the best of, i.e. coach up, what he gets. Casserly's job is to
fulfill as much of the wish list as possible within the constrainst of the system (daddy, equals money, wisdom and practicality--gm equals availability and cap space) Seems similar to me. Capers may want the pro-bowl team for the AFC last year, what coach wouldn't, but the GM can't make it happen. He has to turn to Capers and say as much as you are pup-tenting for Babin, the price is too much, otherwise he is not fulfilling his job.

SESupergenius
10-14-2005, 11:43 AM
It's all about the hierachy. The head coach is the field general, the GM is the pentagon General. McNair is the President. No where does the buck stop? McNair. It's a chain of command. If I am the President how do I fix things? Who should take responsibility? If Casserly is just an order taker then he needs to be fired, Capers could do his job, no need for that position to exist if all he does is what Capers tells him. There are financial people in this organization that do very well with cap numbers, Casserly is just their director. If Casserly is making the personnel decisions then he needs to be fired. We've had very poor drafting and Free Agent acquisitions.

disaacks3
10-14-2005, 12:31 PM
The problem here is that you get into a Chicken vs. Egg dispute.

If Casserly drafts players that are ill-suited to Capers Offensive / Defensive schemes, then whose fault is it then?

If Casserly only drafts players that Capers asks for, then what's the point of having a GM?

How about the Sharper / Glenn issue; was it driven by Casserly or Capers? Did Casserly sell Dom on the talent of P-Buc and the potential of Peek/Babin/Wong/Orr, etc., or did Dom say "Let 'em go, we'll be better off?"

I'll stick with the coaching issue. Even I we have sub-standard talent, the team shouldn't be THIS bad in year 4. Despite claims to the contrary, it doesn't take a decade to build a decent O-Line. Even if 1/3 of the sacks are Carr's fault (that's about my estimate), the O-Line would still be in the running for the worst of ALL TIME again!

Paul (Bear) Bryant said a good coach can beat you with his team, but a great coach can beat you with YOUR team.

Dom Capers has one winning season as a Pro coach...you connect the dots.

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 12:41 PM
How about the Sharper / Glenn issue; was it driven by Casserly or Capers? Did Casserly sell Dom on the talent of P-Buc and the potential of Peek/Babin/Wong/Orr, etc., or did Dom say "Let 'em go, we'll be better off?"

Here is where I think it is on both. I assume, maybe wrong but there it is, that Capers/Fangio/Hoke were positive on the Buchanon trade. If not, Casserly truly needs to be shown the door. Fine, the coaches thought they could redeem Buchanon. They didn't need to let Glenn go and Casserly as the personnel guy should have said no, not until Buchanon proves himself. At this point, I chalk Buchanon up as a failure for--Casserly (too much paid), Capers/Fangio/Hoke (mis-evaluating talent or misusing talent) and Casserly (letting Glenn go before Buchanon was proven). Like so many things with this team--plenty of blame to go around.

eriadoc
10-14-2005, 12:43 PM
My daughter, like many, has asked for a horse, a VW bug and many other things. As a responsible parentt it is my job to say no it isn't appropriate or the cost is too high. Casserly has failed in that job. Anybody care to really dispute that?

I'll dispute it, to a degree. Casserly's job is not to decide who is going to be a bust or not. His job is to centrally manage all the input he's receiving from scouts and coaches and then take the best course of action within budget constraints and team direction. So, to use your example, if your daughter were a world class horse evaluator and told you that Mr. Ed was going to win the Kentucky Derby and you should buy him before that happens, you just have to confer with other horse evaluators and if a majority of them say the same thing - check your budget and pull out your pocketbook. Then, if you hire a trainer for Mr. Ed who consistently puts lead horseshoes on the beast, and most other trainers and scouts on the horse circuit whisper about how crappy your horseshoes are, then you have another decision to make.

Casserly is not a talent evaluator. That is what we have scouts for. As for the argument of whether he's spent too much money on the commodities we've obtained, I think he has overpaid for two items --

1.) Carr. If you weren't going to protect him, you shouldn't have spent the money. Even here, it can be argued that he thought he was going to protect him with Boselli and Ryan Young as anchors. He's had three years since to right the ship and has not, so I say he has effectively overpaid for Carr.

2.) Capers. Whatever we're paying him, he has not made lemonade from lemons. That was his job and he knew it coming in. Expansion teams get lemons for players. He had the players for a while - pulling out a victory over the Steelers, Panthers, Cowboys, and a near-win vs. the Pats shows what heart the team had - but it's gone now. We have better talent now as well, and they're playing worse.

He has to turn to Capers and say as much as you are pup-tenting for Babin, the price is too much, otherwise he is not fulfilling his job.

The problem with laying this on Casserly is ... where do you draw the line on what is appropriate to spend and what isn't? Would you spend a 2nd and 3rd round pick on a Kevin Greene-type linebacker? I think that's appropriate. Would you spend it on what Babin's been to this point? Obviously not. Can he predict the future? Probably not. If he has multiple people telling him the same thing, he has to listen to that. If Capers is the only one telling him that, then he's irresponsible to listen to it.

Kaiser Toro
10-14-2005, 12:54 PM
Since the thread is Casserly's future I see Capers and staff moving on after the year as the sacrificial lambs and Cass staying the course. Whether we like it or not the team still has shown improvement in the win column year over year with year four only a quarter of the way thorugh.

Before we start beating on McNair's door to fire everyone, we have to think like a Chief Executive and speak their language. From his point of view sales are strong and the product is growing from a win stand point. We may need an organizational change, but I do not see Cass (as much as I think it needs to be looked at) getting the axe.

Porky
10-14-2005, 01:34 PM
i'm a fan of casserly ,but being the eternal pessimist that i am, im willing to consider he may get fired. ive seen plenty in here on "capers replacement should be..."

what about next gm candidates? anyone out there noteworthy?

I heard Ladd Herzeg is available. He just appeared in the Musical Moon River, but will catch a flight from Buffalo whenever Mcnair calls. His only request is to make sure he gets those little umbrellas in his drinks. He hates it when he doesn't get the umbrella. :brickwall

TheOgre
10-14-2005, 01:42 PM
I think Casserly stays as well. I think he is probably mainly to blame for choices like Boselli and Hollings. Capers is probably more to blame for Babin, Buchanon, and Greenwood. I would bet that Capers had the most influence on front seven picks, acquisitions, and moves as well as that played in the Senior Bowl with him a few years ago.

CowboysTexansFan
10-14-2005, 01:44 PM
I hope for the team's sake Casserly is gone. On the whole, the drafting by this organization has been horrible. Responsibility for that falls with the General Manager, regardless of all the flunkies here who support Casserly. I wonder how many of those posters are friends or relatives of Casserly, or employed by him.

Casserly and Capers need to be fired. Bring in Jimmy Johnson as head coach with final say over personnel matters. There's a guy who knows how to coach and is a great evaluator of talent.

OzzO
10-14-2005, 01:48 PM
I think Casserly's job is safe for the time being (agreeing with the above - not a complete house cleaning) as I've heard / seen more postive things about Casserly in NFL realted items than negative. Interestingly though... wasn't it Casserly that hired (or reccommended) Capers?

Flip side, all I seem to hear of Capers is "can start an expansion team".

Seems like it will be a replacement of coaching staff that can better work with Casserly (maybe not so much fit his "style") for next year.

Kaiser Toro
10-14-2005, 01:50 PM
I hope for the team's sake Casserly is gone. On the whole, the drafting by this organization has been horrible. Responsibility for that falls with the General Manager, regardless of all the flunkies here who support Casserly. I wonder how many of those posters are friends or relatives of Casserly, or employed by him.

Casserly and Capers need to be fired. Bring in Jimmy Johnson as head coach with final say over personnel matters. There's a guy who knows how to coach and is a great evaluator of talent.

I have no problme bringing in JJ as long as he can complete another Herschel Walker type trade. :ok:

Hookem Horns
10-14-2005, 02:24 PM
Casserly should have never been hired. His draft record in Washington is deplorable and that trend has continued here. BOTH are responsible for this mess and BOTH need to be shown the door.

As my avatar states, I think Casserly is the "dumber" and most responsible for our personel or lack thereof.

SESupergenius
10-14-2005, 02:30 PM
That is a great avatar by the way.

CowboysTexansFan
10-14-2005, 03:07 PM
Whether or not JJ can complete a Herschel Walker type trade, he has proven he knows how to draft good players and coach them well.

Kaiser Toro
10-14-2005, 03:24 PM
Whether or not JJ can complete a Herschel Walker type trade, he has proven he knows how to draft good players and coach them well.

Yes you are correct, but when you get five players, six conditional draft picks and a number one on top of the ones you already have... well, me, you and a poster named boo could draft some playaz

CowboysTexansFan
10-14-2005, 03:30 PM
Casserly has had 4 shots at the draft. With all those picks, why haven't more than a handful worked out? Casserly needs to be replaced.

eriadoc
10-14-2005, 04:09 PM
Casserly should have never been hired. His draft record in Washington is deplorable and that trend has continued here.

It is? He's responsible for 8 of the starting defensive players on the last Redskins SB team, Mark Schlereth, and Heath Shuler. I think he's also responsible for that WR that busted out, but could be wrong. So, by my (admittedly rough) tally, that's 9 solid picks and 2 busts.

I'm not a Casserly apologist, but it's worth getting the facts straight anyway.

awtysst
10-14-2005, 05:35 PM
The best way to look at the issue is through the Scientific method.

Step 1: Observe the Situation, (there needs to be a change to the Texans organization.)

Step 2: Form a hypothesis, (the real problem is the coaching of the team.)

Step 3: Formulate a plan, (lets fire Capers and see how the team does with a new head coach. Decide on measurable criterian)

Step 4: Collect data and analyze(compare wins, how team plays, and whatever criterian decided upon)

Step 5: using data from Step 4 decide on a conclusion. (Based on wins and other Criterion, the data clearly shows that...)

Thus we CANNOT fire both Casserly and Capers. It just does not make sense scientifically.

ATX_Texan
10-14-2005, 07:25 PM
In regards to Casserly, I donít feel that whatever measure of success he had back with the Redskins really does not matter with the here and now. The Redskins won their last Super Bowl way back in 1991. He was the GM that saw the Skins descend from Super Bowl winners to a second rate team. I realize that part of the problem was the change in ownership with Daniel ďI can buy a Super BowlĒ Synder.

I can only go with the talent that he has assembled here with the Texans. I think the results have been less than spectacular. There seems to be a great deal of confusion here about what exact the GM is supposed to be doing. I would like to point out that most of the best organizations in the NFL have a GM and coach on the same page. They agree on what kind of team they want to put together. I donít feel that the Texans ever had that kind of vision. It seems to me that many of the players drafted by Casserly did not match with the kind of offense that Capers wanted to run. On top of that Casserly hired an offensive coordinator that appeared to want to run a wide open offense than the coach was not comfortable with. The bottom line is the GM has the final say on all personal moves with input from the scouts and coaches. If the coach is in charge of personal, there is no reason to have a GM. In that case, you have the situation with the Coach is the GM. I donít think that the Texans were ever set up that way.

I feel that the Capers needs to go and the sooner the better. I have seen plenty of teams benefit from changes in coaching: Dolphins and Browns the latest examples. Only after that will be able to evaluate the talent assembled. My concern with Casserly is failure to address several areas of concern. The inability to put together an offensive line, find a second wide receiver, tight end, etc. all falls on him. As hard as it is for some people to accept, the Texans are flawed on many levels. It is going to be a complete rebuilding process. The sooner it starts the better.

eriadoc
10-14-2005, 07:50 PM
In regards to Casserly, I donít feel that whatever measure of success he had back with the Redskins really does not matter with the here and now.

Oh, I totally agree that what he did with the Redksins shouldn't really matter. But people keep raising Heath Shuler as an argument, as if it should matter. If Shuler matters, then so do the rest of the facts. That's my only point.

My stance on Casserly is - we don't have enough information to say he needs to go. With Capers, I think everyone can see we have enough talent to be performing better than we are. That falls on the coaching staff, IMO.

Nighthawk
10-14-2005, 08:30 PM
past his prime as a GM, if you believe he had one. This whole ship needs reworking so I favor a coach/GM combo, and if JJ would do it I would be very interested--he's a proven winner with a great track record and a slick operator. I don't know how interested he is in coaching these days, if at all.

eriadoc
10-14-2005, 09:37 PM
The thing is charley is the GM he Should know who to bring in.

This is where we disagree. Casserly is the GM - he should be able to take all the information given to him from his scouts, coaches, and other talent evaluators he has access to and decide if that information fits within the framework of the salary cap and which direction the team is heading in. Casserly is a funnel-point, if you will, for the information he's been given. More teams than just the Texans had very high regards for Carr, Babin, and Joppru. By all reports, Babin would have been gone by the time we got back around in the second round. If the coaches and talent evaluators are telling you this is going to be the next Kevin Greene, and enough of them agree on that point, why should Casserly disagree? He's not a scout. He should decide if the price is too high based on the info he has at the time. In hindsight, Babin hasn't turned out how they'd like, sure. You have that luxury now. casserly did not at the time - all he had was a staff of people telling him to get this guy and he'd be a player of X caliber, whatever X is.

infantrycak
10-15-2005, 05:30 AM
By all reports, Babin would have been gone by the time we got back around in the second round.

Since the Patriots were rumored to have intended to take Babin, you really have to wonder about the coaching staff here's inability to coach him/use him properly to make him a special player. Bellichick and Pioli haven't missed on many players--heck have they missed on any LB's?

Vinny
10-15-2005, 06:25 AM
Casserly is not a talent evaluator. That is what we have scouts for. Yes he is... he scouts and evaluates talents. Casserly has always been deep in the evaluation process and is often on scouting trips. From '90-'97 (8 complete drafts) he picked 7 players who had any NFL career at all. His drafts have been awful.

This list was pasted from drafthistory.com

1999 1 1 7 7 Champ Bailey DB Georgia
2 2 6 37 Jon Jansen T Michigan
3 4 12 107 Nate Stimson LB Georgia Tech
4 5 32 165 Derek Smith T Virginia Tech
5 6 12 181 Jeff Hall K Tennessee
6 7 11 217 Tim Alexander WR Oregon State

1998 1 2 18 48 Stephen Alexander TE Oklahoma
2 3 8 69 Skip Hicks RB UCLA
3 4 21 113 Shawn Barber LB Richmond
4 5 17 140 Mark Fischer G Purdue
5 6 17 170 Patrick Palmer WR Northwest Louisiana
6 7 2 191 David Terrell DB Texas-El Paso
7 7 17 206 Antwaune Ponds LB Syracuse

1997 1 1 17 17 Kenard Lang DE Miami (FL)
2 2 21 51 Greg Jones LB Colorado
3 3 20 80 Derek Smith LB Arizona State
4 4 19 115 Albert Connell WR Texas A&M
5 5 2 132 Jamel Williams DB Nebraska
6 5 10 140 Keith Thibodeaux DB Northwest Louisiana
7 5 18 148 Twan Russell LB Miami (FL)
8 5 32 162 Brad Badger G Stanford

1996 1 1 30 30 Andre Johnson T Penn State
2 4 7 102 Stephen Davis RB Auburn
3 5 6 138 Leomont Evans DB Clemson
4 6 7 174 Kelvin Kinney DE Virginia State
5 7 6 215 Jeremy Asher LB Oregon
6 7 41 250 DeAndre Maxwell WR San Diego State

1995 1 1 4 4 Michael Westbrook WR Colorado
2 2 5 37 Cory Raymer C Wisconsin
3 3 4 68 Darryl Pounds DB Nicholls State
4 4 5 103 Larry Jones RB Miami (FL)
5 5 3 137 Jamie Asher TE Louisville
6 5 18 152 Rich Owens DE Lehigh
7 6 5 176 Brian Thure T California
8 7 18 226 Scott Turner DB Illinois

1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler QB Tennessee
2 2 2 31 Tre Johnson T Temple
3 3 3 68 Tydus Winans WR Fresno State
4 3 32 97 Joe Patton G Alabama A&M
5 4 2 105 Kurt Haws TE Utah
6 6 2 163 Dexter Nottage DE Florida A&M
7 7 3 197 Gus Frerotte QB Tulsa

1993 1 1 17 17 Tom Carter DB Notre Dame
2 2 16 45 Reggie Brooks RB Notre Dame
3 3 15 71 Rick Hamilton LB Central Florida
4 3 24 80 Ed Bunn P Texas-El Paso
5 4 17 101 Sterling Palmer DE Florida State
6 5 16 128 Greg Huntington C Penn State
7 6 15 155 Darryl Morrison DB Arizona
8 6 20 160 Frank Wycheck TE Maryland
9 8 16 212 Lamont Hollinquest LB USC

1992 1 1 4 4 Desmond Howard WR Michigan
2 2 19 47 Shane Collins DE Arizona State
3 3 18 74 Paul Siever G Penn State
4 4 28 112 Chris Hakel QB William & Mary
5 6 28 168 Ray Rowe TE San Diego State
6 7 28 196 Calvin Holmes DB USC
7 8 28 224 Darryl Moore G Texas-El Paso
8 9 28 252 Boone Powell LB Texas
9 10 28 280 Tony Barker LB Rice
10 11 28 308 Terry Smith WR Penn State
11 12 28 336 Matt Elliott C Michigan

1991 1 1 17 17 Bobby Wilson DT Michigan State
2 3 21 76 Ricky Ervins RB USC
3 6 20 159 Dennis Ransom TE Texas A&M
4 7 21 188 Keith Cash TE Texas
5 8 20 215 Jimmy Spencer DB Florida
6 9 20 243 Charles Bell DB Baylor
7 10 20 270 Cris Shale P Bowling Green
8 11 21 299 David Gulledge DB Jacksonville State
9 12 20 326 Keenan McCardell WR UNLV

1990 1 2 21 46 Andre Collins LB Penn State
2 3 23 76 Mo Elewonibi G Brigham Young
3 4 5 86 Cary Conklin QB Washington
4 4 28 109 Rico Labbe DB Boston College
5 5 21 130 Brian Mitchell RB Southwestern Louisiana
6 6 23 160 Kent Wells DT Nebraska
7 9 23 243 Tim Moxley G Ohio State
8 10 14 262 D'Juan Francisco DB Notre Dame
9 10 22 270 Thomas Rayam DT Alabama
10 11 21 297 Jon Leverenz LB Minnesota

beerlover
10-15-2005, 07:01 AM
Yes he is... he scouts and evaluates talents. Casserly has always been deep in the evaluation process and is often on scouting trips. From '90-'97 (8 complete drafts) he picked 7 players who had any NFL career at all. His drafts have been awful.


1999 1 1 7 7 Champ Bailey DB Georgia = Dunta Robinson


1998 1 2 18 48 Stephen Alexander TE Oklahoma = Bennie Joppru


1997 1 1 17 17 Kenard Lang DE Miami (FL) = Jason Babin


1996 1 1 30 30 Andre Johnson T Penn State = Andrew Whitworth


1995 1 1 4 4 Michael Westbrook WR Colorado = Reggie Bush


1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler QB Tennessee = David Carr


1993 1 1 17 17 Tom Carter DB Notre Dame = Phillip Buchanon


1992 1 1 4 4 Desmond Howard WR Michigan = Reggie Bush


1991 1 1 17 17 Bobby Wilson DT Michigan State = Travis Johnson


1990 1 2 21 46 Andre Collins LB Penn State = Antwan Peek


I'm cheating here but you can see a pattern just by comparing #1's to the best on the Texans current roster/projected top two picks this year (Bush & Whitwoth) notice Vinny & Huge, Reggie Bush = Westbrook + Howard. that would seem to make him a lock for Casserly if the opportunity presents itself. All kidding aside looks like Casserly is on course to repeat history :brickwall

CowboysTexansFan
10-15-2005, 08:13 AM
Thanks for the great post, Vinny. You obviously have a brain, which many posters on this board do not have--such as the ones who think Casserly is not responsible for the Texans' sorry draft record. Thanks to your post, I see that Casserly's drafting at Washington was atrocious there, too.

eriadoc
10-15-2005, 11:02 AM
Yes he is... he scouts and evaluates talents.

So does Capers, so do the assistant coaches. Exactly where do the scouts fit into this scenario? I'm not exonerating Casserly at all - I just don't think we have enough information. If our players were going out there and busting their tails and coming up short, like in the Patriots game, for instance, then you are able to evaluate the talent we have on the field. If you have a team that shows up and runs in 100 different directions, then you have to wonder what's up, especially when most of those same players have performed much better previously. My point on Casserly is that he has to rely on his personnel to give him the proper information and he has to act on it. If he is out there overriding his scouts and drafting busts, then it's on him, obviously. If he's listening to his people and adding in his own talent evaluation, then you have to look at it from an organizational standpoint. I think this team has talent and the coaching staff is not getting the most out of them.

Regardless, the point I'm making about Casserly is it's not a one-man job like so many people here like to think. If the players were performing to their potential and the team was coming up short, then you have to put that on Cassely. I don't think that's the case currently.

NoBullTexan
10-15-2005, 11:40 AM
I have read with interest the above posts, and to a degree, all have made a point. I have several other slants that might also be of interest:

1.) Casserly helped McNair put this organization together a couple of years before it actually took the field with a team. Mcnair, like any good executive today, delegated certain functions to Casserly, which is to hire and fire the coaches, and to be the final judge on which players we should get. In the beginning, the genesis if you will, of this team, he put together a pretty good beginning.

2.) For the first two or three years opposing teams didn't take us too seriously, allowing us to slip up on several, and win. As time went on we began to be more seriously thought of, and defenses, especially at the end of year three were gameplanning very seriously against us. The Cleveland game last year was the start of other teams having enough information on us to start really bulding the defenses to stop our offense. That is when the offense of Palmer, and the defense of Capers (Fangio) began to unravel, and be shown to be substandard. Some of it was due to decisions made on personnel, and some of it was pure inflexibility on the part of the coaching staff. At that time, after that game, the players began to doubt the veracity of some of the decisions the coaches made, and started to tune out. Nothing of any substance was done so the malignancy began to grow and get biffer until now, in the fourth game of the 2005 season, it has reached full flowerhood. The coaching staff is inflexible, some poor personnel desicions were made, and now the team is in full disarray.

3.) Casserly has allowed Capers, Palmer, and Fangio to make too many personnel decisions, and NOW is when McNair, the ultimate buck stop, should take charge, either get rid of Casserly and Capers and the rest of the coaching staff, and start over from here, or, and here is what I think he will do, he will put Casserly square on the spot, make him make the decisions he should have already made, and get rid of Capers, and start the task of hunting a coach who will right this listing ship. Casserly is just too close to the top to be let go now. BUT, if he doesn't turn this thing around pretty quick, his may be the next butt to be kicked out.

Ibar_Harry
10-15-2005, 11:52 AM
I have read with interest the above posts, and to a degree, all have made a point. I have several other slants that might also be of interest:

1.) Casserly helped McNair put this organization together a couple of years before it actually took the field with a team. Mcnair, like any good executive today, delegated certain functions to Casserly, which is to hire and fire the coaches, and to be the final judge on which players we should get. In the beginning, the genesis if you will, of this team, he put together a pretty good beginning.

2.) For the first two or three years opposing teams didn't take us too seriously, allowing us to slip up on several, and win. As time went on we began to be more seriously thought of, and defenses, especially at the end of year three were gameplanning very seriously against us. The Cleveland game last year was the start of other teams having enough information on us to start really bulding the defenses to stop our offense. That is when the offense of Palmer, and the defense of Capers (Fangio) began to unravel, and be shown to be substandard. Some of it was due to decisions made on personnel, and some of it was pure inflexibility on the part of the coaching staff. At that time, after that game, the players began to doubt the veracity of some of the decisions the coaches made, and started to tune out. Nothing of any substance was done so the malignancy began to grow and get biffer until now, in the fourth game of the 2005 season, it has reached full flowerhood. The coaching staff is inflexible, some poor personnel desicions were made, and now the team is in full disarray.

3.) Casserly has allowed Capers, Palmer, and Fangio to make too many personnel decisions, and NOW is when McNair, the ultimate buck stop, should take charge, either get rid of Casserly and Capers and the rest of the coaching staff, and start over from here, or, and here is what I think he will do, he will put Casserly square on the spot, make him make the decisions he should have already made, and get rid of Capers, and start the task of hunting a coach who will right this listing ship. Casserly is just too close to the top to be let go now. BUT, if he doesn't turn this thing around pretty quick, his may be the next butt to be kicked out.

I would agree with your analysis to a large degree. I still think its Capers and his coaching staff who are the problem and not the players, Casserly or McNair. What I blame Casserly and McNair for is buying into the Capers and company BS too long.

Vinny
10-15-2005, 02:37 PM
So does Capers, so do the assistant coaches. Exactly where do the scouts fit into this scenario? I'm not exonerating Casserly at all - I just don't think we have enough information. You said Casserly is not a talent evaluator but in reality he fancies himself as a Scout, and to be fair to him he does well on his second day picks. He clearly struggles on the first day of his drafts and nobody knows how much of it is Casserly and how much is the product of our scouting dept.

Hervoyel
10-15-2005, 04:18 PM
For the first two or three years opposing teams didn't take us too seriously, allowing us to slip up on several, and win. As time went on we began to be more seriously thought of, and defenses, especially at the end of year three were gameplanning very seriously against us. The Cleveland game last year was the start of other teams having enough information on us to start really bulding the defenses to stop our offense. That is when the offense of Palmer, and the defense of Capers (Fangio) began to unravel, and be shown to be substandard.

I can't really agree with this. Yes some teams did allow the Texans to hang around too long in games but most of the time those teams got their butts in gear and took care of business against us. Remember the Chargers in 2002? They didn't take the Texans lightly. They beat our butts. The Eagles that year allowed us to hang around for a while but then turned it on and put us away. The Steelers completely dominated us and I'd bet that if we hadn't played them on the first Sunday that Tommy Maddox came back from his head injury we would have been soundly defeated. In 2002 the only two teams that took the Texans lightly and then lost as a result were the Cowboys and the Jaguars. Pittsburgh and the Giants both had issues unrelated to playing an expansion team.

That pattern repeated itself in 2003. We won 5 games. Miami took us lightly, Jacksonville got beat on the last play of the game and had rookie QB issues that contributed to their loss. Carolina took us lightly and lost as a result of doing so. Buffalo just wasn't a very good team and Atlanta had no Michael Vick.

Most everyone took the Texans seriously enough in their first two years. Last season the wheels didn't come off against Cleveland in the final game. They came off against Denver. We started the 2004 season failing to execute against San Diego and Detroit. Then we had an emotional win in Kansas City which got the team on a roll but, it was by no means a sign that we kicked butt. KC had a lousy defense, Oakland stunk last year, Tennessee stunk last year, and Jacksonville for some reason just tends to lose against us. In the middle of that run we had a cool comeback against the Vikings that fell short. Big deal.

Look at who we beat last year and the toughest opponent we defeated was who? Jacksonville at 9-7? Maybe Kansas City? We didn't beat a single truly good team and we even lost to some bad ones. Good teams owned us and they continue to own us.

Ibar_Harry
10-15-2005, 04:35 PM
You said Casserly is not a talent evaluator but in reality he fancies himself as a Scout, and to be fair to him he does well on his second day picks. He clearly struggles on the first day of his drafts and nobody knows how much of it is Casserly and how much is the product of our scouting dept.

I find this statement kind of funny. I know you don't like Carr, but AJ, DROB and TJ are 1st day picks along with Babin and PBuc. The last 4 were picks wanted by Capers and his staff. I truely believe Casserly is deferring to Capers and his staff as to who they want. I can't see where AJ and DROB are bad picks. We will disagree on Carr, but TJ was really a Capers' pick. I still believe the biggest problem with our draft picks is the lack of coaching and the fact that most don't fit into Capers' system. They are though to be fits, but they turn out not to be for whatever reason. I think its a reach to blame so much of our problems on Casserly other than nobody wants to give up on Capers including McLain. He's touting how great a guy Capers is. Its strange, because we all agree he really is a nice guy and we would all be honored to have him as our best friend. This discussion is however about ability to coach football and it would appear he just doesn't have it to be a head coach. That's probably true of most of us here. That doesn't make us a better or worse person, but it does affect whether or not one should be the head coach of the Texans.

eriadoc
10-15-2005, 06:40 PM
You said Casserly is not a talent evaluator but in reality he fancies himself as a Scout....

He can fancy himself to be whatever he wants to be, but he's not. If he's overriding people who actually have the job of talent evaluation on a consistent basis, and he's wrong, then yes, he deserves to be fired. If he's overriding them and he's right, then we need some new scouts. Either way, he can't be everywhere at once and he can fancy himself to be a talent evaluator, but truth be told, he has people on staff to scout that talent for him. He has too many other things keeping him from spending 15 hours a day on talent evaluation. I do get what you're saying, though.

Vinny
10-15-2005, 06:41 PM
He goes on scouting trips and evaluates talent...I don't know what you call it.

HoustonFan
10-16-2005, 02:18 PM
...a new coach who's also the GM (I don't know how many of you feel about that), or get both who can work together and be on the same page.

Hmmm. I'm sure this has been done. But who are some HC/GMs that have been successful at both positions?