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View Full Version : Could a benching help restore Carr's jilted confidence?


texan279
10-13-2005, 03:10 AM
LINK (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3392632)

If Carr continues to be dumped and the Texans suffer more losses inevitable with Seattle and Indianapolis a combined 8-2 at some point Capers may be forced to make the most difficult decision of his four seasons in Houston: Should Carr be given a couple of games off?

Capers, owner Bob McNair and general manager Charley Casserly are adamant that Carr isn't the problem, that he is the quarterback of the present and future. McNair will fork over $8 million before the season ends to extend Carr's contract for three years.

But sometimes quarterbacks have to sit for a game or two in their best interests and the best interests of the team.

It's a decision no one in the organization wants to consider at this point for several reasons. They have confidence in Carr's ability and believe if they solve the blocking problems that his performance will improve.

They don't want to shatter his confidence at a time when it must be teeter-tottering considering the beating he absorbs every week.

They would be in a precarious position if they sat Carr for a couple of games and Tony Banks was able to avoid sacks and move the offense which could happen in the short term because Banks has six more seasons of experience than Carr and has been hit about 1,000 fewer times. But if Banks were able to move the offense, and the Texans won a game or two, it wouldn't be fair to take him out.

That's a decision Capers doesn't want to have to make. But Capers is no novice. He has changed starting quarterbacks before. He's been fired. He knows his job's on the line. So are the jobs of his assistants. So far, Capers has made some tough decisions on his staff and in the starting lineup.

Carr's toughness is unquestioned, but his productivity as a passer is drastically off, and there are many reasons why,

He has missed receivers, and they've dropped passes. Coaches don't want him to be on pace to surpass his career highs for carries and rushing yards. At the quarter point, Carr's on pace to run 88 times for 580 yards.

To Carr's credit, he takes a licking and keeps on ticking, but ask any coach or scout who watches tape of Texans games, and they'll tell you that he is to blame for a lot of the sacks.

One NFC coach who has watched tape of the Texans' games said this week that Carr has been hit so much that when he drops back and can't find a receiver immediately, he bails. That's a result of being sacked 167 times and getting hit many, many more.

An AFC personnel director who has watched the Texans says Carr has been hit so many times from so many angles that if he sets up and looks down the field and doesn't see a receiver, his head starts to swivel.

He feels the rush and instinctively expects to get crushed. When he bails, he might run right into a pass rusher. The blockers have no clue where he's going, so they don't know which way to try to take their man.

Carr is experiencing what many highly rated and highly paid quarterbacks have gone through. They play with bad teams early in their careers, and when things start to fall apart, they crater. It's not just in one area, either. And it's impossible to turn it around overnight.

Kaiser Toro
10-13-2005, 03:15 AM
It would not hurt in my estimation if things continue to go South. Maybe David needs to compete for the job in order to shake his mental state. Let's face it he has not felt the heat of competition since at least his Senior year of College.

Kaiser Toro
10-13-2005, 03:56 AM
C'mon man...Carr hasn't faced a push from another QB since his somphore year, when Pat Hill picked Volek over Carr. That's about the only push he's ever had.

C'mon bigTex I tried to qualify my timeline with an at least. :) There does seem to be many people in the know about Fresno Football on this board. :hmmm:

MorKnolle
10-13-2005, 07:09 AM
Speaking as a former athlete, I don't see how benching one of your star players is supposed to increase his confidence. Sure it might protect him from getting sacked a few more times, but that is about it. Benching him sends a message that the coaches don't have confidence in him to run this offense, so I can't see how that would help, and I know Banks and Ragone would not be able to run the offense any better.

Coach C.
10-13-2005, 07:18 AM
I agree from the same standpoint as Morknolle. I was a good athlete, but my coaches never had confidence in me. This had alot of off the court reasons, but it really does shake your confidence. It makes you ask yourself if you are really as bad as the ***** coach thinks you are.

Kaiser Toro
10-13-2005, 08:27 AM
If the season starts off 0-8 I do not see how you do not bench him. He obviously has a lot of experience playing behind a bad line, if he can't play behind now he never will, why would you want him to become injured? Moreover, we may see something in Ragone (I haven't seen it yet, but you never know).

And speaking as a former college athlete and coach, competition is good, losses are bad. There comes a time when coddling one player's confidence becomes a cancer on the team.

Double Barrel
10-13-2005, 08:51 AM
I agree with KT.

At some point, it might be better to bench him for his long-term safety more than anything.

DC can re-build his confidence, in both himself and in his team, at a future point when decent protection has been consistently established by the offense. At the moment, he seems shell-shocked, which is not an indication of his talent, but rather the constant pressure and pounding that he's suffered for over three seasons.

Runner
10-13-2005, 09:01 AM
Could a benching help restore Carr's jilted confidence?

I don't know, we could ask Buchanon, Babin (kind of), Wade or Riley, and, umm ????????

Hard to believe that playing as poorly as we are these are the only examples. Who am I missing?

infantrycak
10-13-2005, 09:08 AM
Who am I missing?

I can't believe it but--Wand.

mean mark8
10-13-2005, 09:18 AM
I think Carr needs some time off. I started a thread earlier in the week stating such. I used the quote from Monday's Chronicle where he says he doesn't have confidence in his receiving corps without AJ out there. Man, he doesn't have confidence in his entire offense, except maybe DD.

Our offense is still extremely predictable which doesn't help. Why do we run to the left in like a 3-1 ratio when Wade is supposed to be a bulldozer? And all play-action is with a fake to the left and Carr rolling right; we set it up with all those runs to the left. Who out there can't call virtually every offensive play we have in our arsenal? Defenses can tee off on every play after a half-second's thought.

Maybe if Carr could watch from the sidelines and review film, etc. he could actually see what's happening. When you're under constant pressure, from the defense, from the media, and from your fans, it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

Runner
10-13-2005, 09:19 AM
I can't believe it but--Wand.

I had him in there but edited him out upon further consideration - I was looking for benchings due to this season's "regression".

Texas
10-13-2005, 11:07 AM
If the Patriots didnt take bench and throw in Brady they wouldnt have accomplished what they have. You never know until you try. And really it cant do anything to hurt Carr to bench him, it would just motivate him.

rmartin65
10-13-2005, 11:11 AM
It could make Carr feel worse.

mean mark8
10-13-2005, 12:57 PM
It could make Carr feel worse.
Another quote from Carr from FOXSports.com:

"When we get in obvious passing situations, that's where it's the hardest for us," Carr said. "When we can stay in normal down and distances in run and play action, we're fine. If we have to drop back and pass, we're not good enough to do that right now."

Should this guy be starting for us?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4986656

I might add, 6 of our 13 non-3rd down conversions were for 4 yards or less. Are those obvious passing situations?

Bubbajwp
10-13-2005, 01:13 PM
I think benching Carr would just solidify his departure at the end of the season. Unless Mr. McNair and the coaching staff told him he was being benched so he wouldnt get killed.

Wharton
10-13-2005, 01:48 PM
If the Patriots didnt take bench and throw in Brady they wouldnt have accomplished what they have. You never know until you try. And really it cant do anything to hurt Carr to bench him, it would just motivate him.

I could be wrong on this but I don't think Drew Bledsow was benched, he got hurt and never got his job back.

texan279
10-13-2005, 01:54 PM
Lets not have this conversation any more.There it is in print.

I posted an article with an opinion about our current situation, which also includes opinions from others around the NFL about our team which is what a MB is for, a place to discuss facts and opinions.

HJam72
10-13-2005, 02:13 PM
If we're looking at it from the standpoint of who's gonna take all the hits, then I say we use Buchannon as the QB. :tv:

Otherwise, no, I really don't think Carr's confidence would rise from being benched.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2005, 08:21 AM
:tomato: Why can't you bench Carr if you play musical lineman ? Why can't you bench Carr if you bench Babin and PBuch ? This is the problem if Carr's this fragile in his ego he'll be a pouter .
If you bench Carr and Ragone makes plays then what have you learned . What if the line rallies around Ragone and plays their butts off and they play like team ? If you bench Carr and Ragone gets killed also ... well its that the O line stinks .
Point is I think the Carr backers fear having an open competition because of what might be exposed . Nothing ventuered nothing gained .

:ok: Look on the bright side... the whole Carr clan is finacially set for life regardless .

JfromthaTray
10-14-2005, 08:37 AM
Babin must have gotten hurt in practice after he was benched for his poor play.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2005, 08:53 AM
:texflag: Does anyone know what Ragone would do ? Of course not , could he do worse than Carr has at times of course not . He could complete 3 for 5 and take twenty sacks for a QB rating of 105 .

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2005, 09:14 AM
:tomato: I don't care who the backup is . I think the Oline is disgusted with Carr and you could get the teams respect by putting his butt on the bench .

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2005, 09:31 AM
:texflag: Have you ever played a team sport . You don't have to like somebody but you do have to respect them . They act like they have no chance with Carr .

When we got the ball against the Bengals the team did not look like a team that was going to win . FUMBLE ... oh wait its only a field goal 16 -10 a TD and extra point wins ... dump to the middle twice ... clocks ticking ...hail Mary ...forgot to throw dang it .

infantrycak
10-14-2005, 10:24 AM
Babin must have gotten hurt in practice after he was benched for his poor play.

Babin was hurt in the Oakland pre-season game, but you can keep on making up your own facts if you want to. Maybe you can start your own web-site--Facts from the Tray land .com

GP
10-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Who cares about his confidence?

"....until I can get MY confidence up in THEM (WRs)..."

This is what I'm talking about. It's all about David's confidence and yet we have other guys like Dunta and DD still doing THEIR jobs in spite of poor supporting play by their teammates.

I mean, is there a David Carr satisfaction meter that registers his level of confidence? IMO, you show your true colors when the chips are down.

Look at Elway. He didn't bail on Denver and look how long it took him to win a Super Bowl. Look at Favre. He was a second stringer headed for nowhere in Atlanta and he gets traded and the rest his history. What if he had looked at his current situation in Atlanta and just started having the same attitude that Carr has right now? To me, the guy can be anything he wants to be. It's up to David and not the efforts of others (o line) to define who Carr is or who Carr WILL be.

Honestly, Carr looks like he's given up already. We all torched P-Buch because we thought he didn't care. And yet he's come up in the past two games and has laid some serious smacks down on the ball carrier. He's gaining some consistency, even in the midst of his own ego problem, and Car isn't.

Deal with that one. Kinda' makes you woozy, doesn't it? To think that P-Buch is gaining some consistency and earning some respect back and Carr isn't.

NFLforher
10-14-2005, 05:07 PM
Who cares about his confidence?

"....until I can get MY confidence up in THEM (WRs)..."

This is what I'm talking about. It's all about David's confidence and yet we have other guys like Dunta and DD still doing THEIR jobs in spite of poor supporting play by their teammates.

I mean, is there a David Carr satisfaction meter that registers his level of confidence? IMO, you show your true colors when the chips are down.

Look at Elway. He didn't bail on Denver and look how long it took him to win a Super Bowl. Look at Favre. He was a second stringer headed for nowhere in Atlanta and he gets traded and the rest his history. What if he had looked at his current situation in Atlanta and just started having the same attitude that Carr has right now? To me, the guy can be anything he wants to be. It's up to David and not the efforts of others (o line) to define who Carr is or who Carr WILL be.

Honestly, Carr looks like he's given up already. We all torched P-Buch because we thought he didn't care. And yet he's come up in the past two games and has laid some serious smacks down on the ball carrier. He's gaining some consistency, even in the midst of his own ego problem, and Car isn't.

Deal with that one. Kinda' makes you woozy, doesn't it? To think that P-Buch is gaining some consistency and earning some respect back and Carr isn't.

Elway bailed on the Colts. Do you think he would have signed with the expansion Texans?


:rolleyes:

Bull Pen 1
10-14-2005, 06:40 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I say bench Carr, who cares about his confidence, as far as I'm concerned he has already lost it.

Throw in Ragone and see what he can do. Some say he played against 2nd and 3rd stringers, at least he progressed, something Carr has not done in the last 10 months. I'm not sure Carr, with his confidence would do very well against 2nd and 3rd stringers. I don't see how Ragone can do any worst than Carr. If you haven't heard Carr is 0 - 4 as a starter this year. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Maybe Carr should just be man enought and bench himself.

JustBonee
10-15-2005, 05:11 PM
I can only answer that one way ... would sitting in the corner with a dunce cap make you feel special?
I can't imagine how.

Babin must have gotten hurt in practice after he was benched for his poor play.
I believe it's the other way around. .. After the hurt (injury) came the benching.

Bubbajwp
10-15-2005, 09:46 PM
Who cares about his confidence?

"....until I can get MY confidence up in THEM (WRs)..."

This is what I'm talking about. It's all about David's confidence and yet we have other guys like Dunta and DD still doing THEIR jobs in spite of poor supporting play by their teammates.

I mean, is there a David Carr satisfaction meter that registers his level of confidence? IMO, you show your true colors when the chips are down.

Look at Elway. He didn't bail on Denver and look how long it took him to win a Super Bowl. Look at Favre. He was a second stringer headed for nowhere in Atlanta and he gets traded and the rest his history. What if he had looked at his current situation in Atlanta and just started having the same attitude that Carr has right now? To me, the guy can be anything he wants to be. It's up to David and not the efforts of others (o line) to define who Carr is or who Carr WILL be.

Honestly, Carr looks like he's given up already. We all torched P-Buch because we thought he didn't care. And yet he's come up in the past two games and has laid some serious smacks down on the ball carrier. He's gaining some consistency, even in the midst of his own ego problem, and Car isn't.

Deal with that one. Kinda' makes you woozy, doesn't it? To think that P-Buch is gaining some consistency and earning some respect back and Carr isn't.
You cant compare a QB to a RB and a CB. A QB with bad WR and a bad oline will look terrible. A RB can look great on a bad team. A RB doesnt need a good oline or WR's. For example the past couple of years LT looked amazing yet his team was terrible.

Also when you were a kid playing football or basketball at the local park im sure there was one kid who couldnt catch or shoot. You probably threw the ball to him a couple of times and it probably smacked him in the nose. Did you trust him to catch the ball after that. Would you throw the ball to him if he was wide open or would you throw the ball to your best playmaker. In Carr's case he doesnt have anybody who can catch the ball.

Carr's given up. I cant say Carr has given up when he is the only player on the team who is diving head first in to defenders trying to get first downs instead of running out of bounds.

We all torched pbuch because we thought he didnt care. News flash he didnt care. Remember watching him move out of the way of W Parker. Pbuch has shown major improvement in the past two games.

touttail
10-16-2005, 04:57 AM
It's happened in the past. A Coach would bench a starter and it would serve as a wake up call to them. Carr has never had any real competetion. The starting QB job was handed to him since day one. Would it really matter if he was benched a game. Not like he's tearing it up right now!


bobby 119C :brickwall

Honoring Earl 34
10-16-2005, 06:19 AM
:texflag: Terry Bradshaw was benched for Joe Gilliam . You play bad you hit the pine .
This is getting alot like the Steve Francis thing . He was making rookie mistakes for 5 years before Van Gundy pin pointed the problem . He does'nt think .

infantrycak
10-16-2005, 06:32 AM
:texflag: Terry Bradshaw was benched for Joe Gilliam . You play bad you hit the pine .
This is getting alot like the Steve Francis thing . He was making rookie mistakes for 5 years before Van Gundy pin pointed the problem . He does'nt think .

Yeah, Bradshaw got benched his rookie year when he had a 38% pass completion rate and 24 INT's. Bradshaw should be an example in patience--he didn't start consistantly completing more than half his passes until his 8th year and had more INT's than TD's until his 6th year.

I don't have a general problem with the idea of benching Carr, but in this circumstance it is wrong IMO. There just isn't any reasonable argument IMO that the OL is not at least 50% of the problem. Bench Carr and you have held one part responsible but not the other and sadly you can't bench the OL unless you want to draft QB's in the 1st 4 rounds next year. Guess we could put the second string OL in and Hollings as QB--he played QB in HS--maybe he could evade the pass rush and get some practice running in.

Vinny
10-16-2005, 07:12 AM
This is what Capers and Co get for never having any honest competition at the QB spot for 4 years.

Honoring Earl 34
10-16-2005, 08:08 AM
:texflag: Bradshaw was benched in 74 . For those who are counting.

infantrycak
10-16-2005, 08:13 AM
:texflag: Bradshaw was benched in 74 . For those who are counting.

He was also benched in his rookie season.

Bradshaw flopped in his first season, throwing six touchdowns and 24 interceptions and was benched at one point as the team went 5-9.

Link (http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Bradshaw_Terry.html)

In '74, Bradshaw had an awe inspiring 45% completion rate

Wolf
10-16-2005, 12:25 PM
Bills coach Mike Mularkey has declined to identify his starter, citing the "competitive advantage" of keeping the Jets guessing, but Holcomb has worked with the first unit this week and will get the nod. He will attempt to build on last week's performance, when he helped the Bills snap a three-game losing streak with a 20-14 victory over Miami.

In that game, Holcomb completed 20 of 26 passes for 169 yards, with one touchdown pass, no interceptions and a 106.1 passer efficiency rating. While the 169 yards is a modest total, that's 19 more yards than Losman totaled through the air in his two most recent starts.

The Buffalo offense, although still rated 30th in the league through five games, showed some energy and diversity last week. Holcomb provided a much-needed boost to the passing game and got the wide receivers, especially Eric Moulds, more involved.

Losman, a second-year veteran and the Bills' first-round selection in the 2004 draft, was elevated to the No. 1 job this spring when Buffalo released veteran Drew Bledsoe. The former Tulane standout started the first four games, winning the season opener against Houston, but then losing three straight.

Perhaps in an effort to insulate Losman, the Bills were conservative in the passing game. There were reports that Buffalo veterans were lobbying for a switch to Holcomb, who signed with the Bills as an unrestricted free agent this spring.

The Bills organization still views Losman as its quarterback of the future, and he may regain the starting job before the end of the season. But at 2-3, and trying to stay in the chase in the bunched-up AFC East, the Bills need to string together some victories, and it seems Holcomb offers them the best chance of doing so. The Jets likewise are 2-3 going into Sunday's game, one game behind division-leading New England.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2190049

I know this is apples to oranges comparison.. but if the offense still doesn't have a spark we let someone else try it..

Wolf
10-16-2005, 01:35 PM
Please...Carr is the only decent QB we have. Ragone is overrated because he did "all right" in Europe, Banks has managed to stay sober long enough to be a decent #2. Capers would make any QB look like krap since he's a horrible coach. Don't blame the inadequicies of poor QB play on the QB when his coach, GM, and owner don't do **** to protect their QB.


Not sure about overrated.. if Ragone would have come out as a junior he was projected to mid 1st round ..but Ragone stayed and Louisville had a horrible OL in which Ragone didn't do as well..

Lots of people say Drew Henson (if he sayed) at Michigan could have gotten picked by the Texans instead of Carr.. Well Ragones stats were close to his.

Vinny
10-16-2005, 01:44 PM
Lots of people say Drew Henson (if he sayed) at Michigan could have gotten picked by the Texans instead of Carr.. Well Ragones stats were close to his.What it tells you is more about this QB Class of 02. One of the worst ever.

Wolf
10-16-2005, 01:44 PM
What it tells you is more about this QB Class of 02. One of the worst ever.
very true.

Wolf
10-16-2005, 01:47 PM
What I wonder is what is going on with the Texans staff. Watching parts of the Cowboys game, Eli is calling plays and directing traffic.. We never see that here.. I guess the problem is a trust issue between Qb and OL and coaching staff.. Where oh where did we go wrong.

Honoring Earl 34
10-16-2005, 01:57 PM
You guys can't gaurantee anything thats the problem . Ragone can't be much worse ... that we do know . To act like Carr is the only QB that give our 0-4 Texans a shot to win is silly .

mean mark8
10-16-2005, 02:11 PM
Carson Palmer, with less experience than Carr, is 20 out of 23 for 201 yards and a touchdown against the Titans halfway through the 3rd qtr w/ 1 sack. This is the same Titans D that we couldn't do squat against. Bench Carr and ask what the plays were that Ragone ran at Louisville to throw for so many yards. Let's just start drawing them up in the "dirt." Completely ignore the coaches because they are living in the 1950s style of offense and play sandlot ball. :yahoo: