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View Full Version : Who are our scouts?


gtexan02
10-11-2005, 07:57 PM
How much of our talent problem is the result of poor scouting?

Hervoyel
10-11-2005, 08:07 PM
"WE GET SCOUTS?"

signed
Charlie Casserly

Kaiser Toro
10-11-2005, 09:02 PM
Scouting is an art, but yet over hyped in my opinion. I'll spend more on one asst coach who is a master at developing a player than on a hot shot scouting department. The idea is that anyone in the pros should have some talent it just depends how you mold and shape it.

jacquescas
10-11-2005, 09:25 PM
can we get both? i think as far behind as we are we need both.

Vinny
10-11-2005, 10:14 PM
It doesn't matter if you have scouts when you just draft the guys the coaches like at the Sr bowl....ugh.

swtbound07
10-11-2005, 10:23 PM
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching

Grid
10-11-2005, 10:23 PM
last i heard.. we employed one of the largest scouting teams in the league.. if not THE largest.

TexanExile
10-12-2005, 04:38 AM
It doesn't matter if you have scouts when you just draft the guys the coaches like at the Sr bowl....ugh.

That's it, right there: Failure to accept expert input at crucial times when it comes to talent. Look, someone on the scouting staff found CC Brown, and someone found Jerome Mathis, and all the other talent Houston picked up from small schools over the past couple of years. It's not like Capers spends his week watching game film from every single NCAA school (must...avoid...making...obvious....quip.....) searching for talent. But when he apparently overrides those scouts in favor of players found in one-time meetings at unrealistic all-star games, I think he's missing out on what he trusts the scouts to do.

That said, if those guys had turned out to be studs and this team was winning, he'd be labeled a genius with an eye for talent. No risk of that now.

HJam72
10-12-2005, 05:02 AM
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching

Sounds to me like your saying they have the players your friend wanted them to get, meaning that, "....it's all coaching, friends." I hope so, because I believe at some point we will still have Casserly, but Capers will be gone.

ArlingtonTexan
10-12-2005, 05:02 AM
A friend of mine is actually the pro scout for the texans (rob kisiel), and from all he has told me and i have seen, they have one of the best scouting departments there is.....its alll coaching friends, all coaching

Well, of course, he is not going to admit "My department and I are mediocore at best at our jobs."

Kaiser Toro
10-12-2005, 05:45 AM
If the scouting department is split between pro and college, the pro side has done an awful job, in tandem with our bean counters, to date - Wade, PBuch, Greenwood, Riley. Robaire is not where I thought he would be, but I still like what he can bring to the table.

texan279
10-12-2005, 05:54 AM
If the scouting department is split between pro and college, the pro side has done an awful job, in tandem with our bean counters, to date - Wade, PBuch, Greenwood, Riley. Robaire is not where I thought he would be, but I still like what he can bring to the table.

IMO Robaire looks like he is starting to come along this season and Greenwood looks to me like he is improving.

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 05:56 AM
IMO Robaire looks like he is starting to come along this season and Greenwood looks to me like he is improving.

That's the problem.... these players should not be "coming along" or "improving" at this point in their careers.

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 06:00 AM
The Texans had the 3rd highest total payroll of any team in 2004. Not sure where they rank in 2005, but it's probably very close to the top. It looks like they have 15 scouts... Texans Front Office (http://houstontexans.com/team/front_office.php)

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:02 AM
That's the problem.... these players should not be "coming along" or "improving" at this point in their careers.

Robaire came in from a 4-3, and Greenwood is probably still learning as well.

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 06:08 AM
Robaire came in from a 4-3, and Greenwood is probably still learning as well.

Well, this is Robaire's 2nd year with the team. If it has taken him 28 games to finally "come along" that is an issue.

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:10 AM
Well, this is Robaire's 2nd year with the team. If it has taken him 28 games to finally "come along" that is an issue.

Probably an issue with the coaching...

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 06:11 AM
Probably an issue with the coaching...

Without a doubt...

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:16 AM
Without a doubt...

And the more I think about it the more it irks me...We have talent on this team and it's going to waste, not just AJ and Carr, but DRob, Robaire, Peek, Babin, I could go on and on. If I was DRob I would have almost been insulted having to cover the #2 WR in TJ when we played the Bengals. He should be going one on one with the best WR's in the league. The scemes and playcalling here is horrible.

eriadoc
10-12-2005, 06:22 AM
If you take a look around at other NFL teams, they seem to get good production out of young, relatively unknown players, particularly on the O-line. We don't. Couple that with the players that have left here and performed well on other teams (Foley, McCree, Wright, maybe more) and I just can't see how the coaching isn't responsible for that, to a large degree. In order to be a winning team, you have to get solid production from guys that are not Pro Bowlers. The Colts are starting two 2nd-year offensive linemen and keeping Manning clean. The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job. The Browns are starting a 3rd year center that's doing a good job and Trent Dilfer is looking decent. The Bengals have completely reshuffled the middle of their line after losing both Centers and with people playing out of position, doing fine. Our youngest starter is in his 4th year (Pitts, unless I'm missing someone) and we're getting poor production from all of them. And Pitts is still our best lineman. I have a hard time believing that we've missed on talent evaluation that many times.

Also on the coaching department, and I wasn't aware of this until this AM, the Texans had Clark Haggins in here for a workout and declined to work out a deal with him. He's doing quite well for the Steelers now.

Runner
10-12-2005, 06:28 AM
The Texans had the 3rd highest total payroll of any team in 2004. Not sure where they rank in 2005, but it's probably very close to the top. It looks like they have 15 scouts... Texans Front Office (http://houstontexans.com/team/front_office.php)

They should have a high front office payroll since they have a high revenue stream compared to other teams. I'm glad to see them rolling the money back into operations.

Caveat: As long as the money is spent wisely.

Runner
10-12-2005, 06:31 AM
The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job.

From what I remeber about that draft day, the Chargers were set to take Wand with their pick a couple of slots after the one the Texans used to take him. I wonder what he could have done in their system with their coaching - they must have seen something in him too.

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:31 AM
If you take a look around at other NFL teams, they seem to get good production out of young, relatively unknown players, particularly on the O-line. We don't. Couple that with the players that have left here and performed well on other teams (Foley, McCree, Wright, maybe more) and I just can't see how the coaching isn't responsible for that, to a large degree. In order to be a winning team, you have to get solid production from guys that are not Pro Bowlers. The Colts are starting two 2nd-year offensive linemen and keeping Manning clean. The Chargers are starting three guys on the O-line in the 3rd year or less and doing a pretty good job. The Browns are starting a 3rd year center that's doing a good job and Trent Dilfer is looking decent. The Bengals have completely reshuffled the middle of their line after losing both Centers and with people playing out of position, doing fine. Our youngest starter is in his 4th year (Pitts, unless I'm missing someone) and we're getting poor production from all of them. And Pitts is still our best lineman. I have a hard time believing that we've missed on talent evaluation that many times.

Also on the coaching department, and I wasn't aware of this until this AM, the Texans had Clark Haggins in here for a workout and declined to work out a deal with him. He's doing quite well for the Steelers now.

I think the Chargers had 2 rookies on the O line last season and look what Brees and LT did. And the Jags had Kenny Wright on Chad Johnson some of the game last Sunday and from what the Jags fans are saying he shut Johnson down. Now I don't know how many plays or how long he covered Johnson though.

ArlingtonTexan
10-12-2005, 06:37 AM
The Texans had the 3rd highest total payroll of any team in 2004. Not sure where they rank in 2005, but it's probably very close to the top. It looks like they have 15 scouts... Texans Front Office (http://houstontexans.com/team/front_office.php)

In pure numbers 15 scouts is on the very high end.

Vinny
10-12-2005, 06:39 AM
In pure numbers 15 scouts is on the very high end.Hmmm, more evidence of the FEMA management model.

infantrycak
10-12-2005, 06:59 AM
And the Jags had Kenny Wright on Chad Johnson some of the game last Sunday and from what the Jags fans are saying he shut Johnson down.

He had one less reception than in the Texans' game so if he was shut down by Wright he was shut down by Buchanon and Petey. Truth is he had mediocre days both games.

texan279
10-12-2005, 07:02 AM
He had one less reception than in the Texans' game so if he was shut down by Wright he was shut down by Buchanon and Petey. Truth is he had mediocre days both games.

He only covered Chad part of the game, Rashean Mathis also covered him during the game.

Kaiser Toro
10-12-2005, 07:05 AM
Hmmm, more evidence of the FEMA management model.

you can take the football out of politics, but you can't take the politics out of football

swtbound07
10-12-2005, 09:09 AM
the thing is, scouts can only tell you who they think has talent, they cant force you to draft anyone....i happen to know there was a bitter fight about jason babin on draft day, but in the end, the GM has last call

infantrycak
10-12-2005, 09:25 AM
the thing is, scouts can only tell you who they think has talent, they cant force you to draft anyone....i happen to know there was a bitter fight about jason babin on draft day, but in the end, the GM has last call

And what was the bitter fight over?--whether to draft Babin or whether to give that much up for him?

swtbound07
10-12-2005, 02:03 PM
whether or not to even draft him....from what i understand some of the scouts thought cc had lost his mind, but some would have mortgaged the franchise for him

infantrycak
10-12-2005, 02:07 PM
whether or not to even draft him....from what i understand some of the scouts thought cc had lost his mind, but some would have mortgaged the franchise for him

Casserly had lost his mind, or Capers? And lost whomever's mind over the player or the price?

NoBullTexan
10-12-2005, 02:13 PM
At issue here should be the amount of input the coaches (HC too) have had in the picking of talent. The GM has to work with the coaches in order make the coaches gameplan work. The fact that the offensive line sucks is pretty much is a product of Palmer, as is the additions of Smith, Buchannon, Babin and the rest, a product of Capers & Fangio.

edo783
10-12-2005, 02:54 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again. The problems start when the coaches fall in love with a SPECIFIC player and then make pleas to the GM that they just HAVE to have him. PBuc type moves happen when that is the case. The coaches should say "We need this TYPE of player" and then the GM should get the best one available and affordable, based on scouting and coach evaluations. Anytime you are dealing you have to willing to walk away otherwise you jam your self up.