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the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 10:07 AM
This guy would be a perfect fit for our offensive line of overpaid castoffs.



http://www.chargers.com/images/bio_images/Fonoti_Toniu.jpg



Fonoti on the trading block (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20051011-9999-1s11fonoti.html)

GP
10-11-2005, 10:14 AM
Nice homework.

My only gripe is that he's injured. We all know what kind of luck we have with putting our hopes in oft-injured players (Boselli, Joppru, Hollings).

He is a risk, but it does sound as if he only lost his job due to injury.

At this point, with what I read from our owner...I just don't see us making ANY more major moves until about 10 years from now. Maybe another nine years will be enough for Capers to prove himself, according to McNair.

This is just getting worse by the minute :goodnight

eriadoc
10-11-2005, 10:28 AM
At this point, with what I read from our owner...I just don't see us making ANY more major moves until about 10 years from now. Maybe another nine years will be enough for Capers to prove himself, according to McNair.

I'm not sure what you expected, but McNair is not going to come out and say "We're firing Capers if he doesn't get XX wins for us this season". He'll give the ole vote of confidence and then let him go at season's end.

touttail
10-11-2005, 11:56 AM
Nice homework.

My only gripe is that he's injured. We all know what kind of luck we have with putting our hopes in oft-injured players (Boselli, Joppru, Hollings).

He is a risk, but it does sound as if he only lost his job due to injury.



He has a broken hand. This can be over come pretty quick, not like a shoulder or a knee.

I agree we have gotten burned with injuries in the past.

bobby 119C

HardKnockTexan
10-11-2005, 12:01 PM
Ofensive Linemen can still play with a broken hand. I've seen many games where a lineman is suited up and on the field with a cast over his arm.

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 12:14 PM
The guys got some good credentials...

Had Drew Brees not had such a phenomenal year in 2004, people might very easily have mentioned the name Toniu Fonoti (TONE-u Foe-no-TEE) when discussing NFL Comeback Player of the Year.

After sitting out the 2003 season with a foot injury, Toniu returned to the field in 2004 more determined than ever. He started every game and finished the season as an All-Pro. Toniu’s devastating blocks filled the highlight reels as he helped pave the way for the league’s sixth-ranked rushing offense. As a unit, the Chargers offensive line surrendered only 21 sacks in 2004, fourth-fewest in the NFL.

Fonoti (http://www.chargers.com/team/roster_details.cfm?last_name=Fonoti&first_name=Toniu)

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 12:15 PM
And please... no one post "we don't need a Guard".

Exascor
10-11-2005, 12:39 PM
As a unit, the Chargers offensive line surrendered only 21 sacks in 2004, fourth-fewest in the NFL.Well...we have 27 sacks in 4 games. We beat the Chargers! The higher the number the better. Right? :wacko:

William.carter
10-11-2005, 12:39 PM
And please... no one post "we don't need Guard".

It's rare that we agree, but I have to say Wonger is right, there isn't a position on the O-line that couldn't be improved at this point.

TheOgre
10-11-2005, 12:42 PM
Well...we have 27 sacks in 4 games. We beat the Chargers! The higher the number the better. Right? :wacko:

When did we beat the Chargers? They are 2-0 against us.

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 12:43 PM
We beat them in sack totals.

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Too bad we don't have anything of value to trade other than draft picks. Casserly loves to throw these away, so it might be a possibility.

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 02:12 PM
So, has Wand been completely written off as another bust???

Don't know if this was posted already... Texans planning an offensive-line makeover (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2187777)

Pitts has to play LT from here on out, he's the best option out of this bunch. If Riley takes over for what was supposed to be the best offensive lineman... well, the thought of that leaves me speechless.

If they could get Fotoni into this mix they have the potential to win at least 3 games this season.

awtysst
10-11-2005, 02:17 PM
So, has Wand been completely written off as another bust???

Don't know if this was posted already... Texans planning an offensive-line makeover (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2187777)

Pitts has to play LT from here on out, he's the best option out of this bunch. If Riley takes over for what was supposed to be the best offensive lineman... well, the thought of that leaves me speechless.

If they could get Fonoti into this mix they have the potential to win at least 3 games this season.


This is a start. Riley is going to the Right tackle Spot.

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:18 PM
So, has Wand been completely written off as another bust???

Don't know if this was posted already... Texans planning an offensive-line makeover (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2187777)

Pitts has to play LT from here on out, he's the best option out of this bunch. If Riley takes over for what was supposed to be the best offensive lineman... well, the thought of that leaves me speechless.

If they could get Fonoti into this mix they have the potential to win at least 3 games this season.

This is incredible. According to the article you shuffle these ineffective players around and add one face to the line - and that where we have the weakest backup. Wade vs. Riley for starting RT - talk about your epic battles!

Of course, ol' Len may have gotten this scoop from our message board and not the front office.

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:21 PM
This is a start. Riley is going to the Right tackle Spot.

Yeah, he won't be winded and overweight over there.

awtysst
10-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Yeah, he won't be winded and overweight over there.

This is his natural position, so he has to do better.

Coach C.
10-11-2005, 02:23 PM
riley is not the answer in the starting lineup at all. He has been a RG or RT most of his professional career, but he was servicable at best. I like the Pitts to LT I have been posting it since I came on this board. I am not sure with Hogdon, but if he studies film and does a good job pulling and with blitz pickup I will not have a problem with it.

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:26 PM
This is his natural position, so he has to do better.

Did you see how tired he was in the 3rd and especially 4th quarters? He'd still have to play every down on the right side. If I was the defense I know which side I'd put my best rusher on.

aj.
10-11-2005, 02:32 PM
Herein lies a major clue to the root cause of many of our problems.

Just over a year after giving a guy (Wade) a six-year, 30 million dollar free agent contract including a 10 million dollar signing bonus, he's being demoted and asked to compete for his job against a journeyman right tackle who plays for the minimum. I'm sorry but I don't see the good in this. This is a major league goat rope and our GM should be held responsible. Don't get me started on some of the other contract decisions... (Gary Walker) ..... <Blood Pressure rising....must step away....>

awtysst
10-11-2005, 02:35 PM
Herein lies a major clue to the root cause to many of our problems.

Just over a year after giving a guy (Wade) a six-year, 30 million dollar free agent contract including a 10 million dollar signing bonus, he's being demoted and asked to compete for his job against a journeyman right tackle who plays for the minimum. I'm sorry but I don't see the good in this. This is a major league goat rope and our GM should be held responsible. Don't get me started on some of the other contract decisions... (Gary Walker) ..... <Blood Pressure rising....must step away....>


Walker is gone next year(hopefully).
Next ytear we hopefully draft our LT Beast. Another improvement I see in this is the use of Hodgkens at Center. I am ready to see what the kid can do!
(I am trying to be optimistic, its the only way I can get myself to go to a sports bar and watch them without feeling depressed on my way there).

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:37 PM
Herein lies a major clue to the root cause of many of our problems.

Just over a year after giving a guy (Wade) a six-year, 30 million dollar free agent contract including a 10 million dollar signing bonus, he's being demoted and asked to compete for his job against a journeyman right tackle who plays for the minimum. I'm sorry but I don't see the good in this. This is a major league goat rope and our GM should be held responsible. Don't get me started on some of the other contract decisions... (Gary Walker) ..... <Blood Pressure rising....must step away....>

Blood pressure? From the article:

The Texans started the same line unit -- Riley at left tackle, Pitts at left guard, McKinney at center, Wiegert at right guard and Wade at right tackle -- in each of the first four games of the season. The results have been disastrous, as Houston has been unable to get into any offensive rhythm and Carr has been consistently under pressure.

4 of them are still starting, and the fifth will compete for one of the slots. Why not just stick Riley at center so we effectively make very little change and don't hurt anybody's feelings?

Coach C.
10-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Bottom line Riley is no better than Milford Brown. I thought it was stupid to sign him to compete for a starting spot. I would not go to the tailgate parking lot and pick some fat *** out of shape guy to go protect my shoe much less my franchise QB.

wrestler4life
10-11-2005, 02:43 PM
At least (if this is true) they are trying to do something. I, for one, am happy to see that.

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:44 PM
Coaches - put your personal issues aside.

Seth Wand is better than some of these guys!

dtran04
10-11-2005, 02:44 PM
I think its obvious that moving Riley to RT is a way of just benching him.

Coach C.
10-11-2005, 02:45 PM
Pitts, McKinney or Weigert, Hogdon or McKinney, Wade, Wand. This is our best bet for any hope of allowing less than 3 sacks in a game. I told a friend that works for the Texans that if I see Riley starting at LT I am turning off the game and going to cuddle up with my chick and a bottle of Hennessey. At least I know I am gonna get good action then.

Runner
10-11-2005, 02:49 PM
Pitts, McKinney or Weigert, Hogdon or McKinney, Wade, Wand. This is our best bet for any hope of allowing less than 3 sacks in a game. I told a friend that works for the Texans that if I see Riley starting at LT I am turning off the game and going to cuddle up with my chick and a bottle of Hennessey. At least I know I am gonna get good action then.

Since they seem to be committed to Pitts to LT:

Pitts - McKinney - Hodgdon - Weigert - Wand

Guards playing guard, tackles playing tackle, center playing center. Wow!

wrestler4life
10-11-2005, 02:55 PM
It is like our coaches actually decided to find their brain. It is like they just noticed that these guys should be where they are used to playing!

buckaroo_banzai
10-11-2005, 03:00 PM
i can't believe we want wand back after all the talk last season. :hmmm:
things must be really bad for us :bag:

Runner
10-11-2005, 03:05 PM
i can't believe we want wand back after all the talk last season. :hmmm:
things must be really bad for us :bag:

Well, Wand took more than his fair share of the blame last season. He was the only change on the line this year, and the line play has fallen off dramatically.

Riley is on pace to give up 18 sacks this year and 8 penalties. Obviously that is better than any improvement we could have expected on Wand's 12.5 sack 3 penalty 1st year as a starter.

They are running for less yards per carry to the left this year too. Last year that was the best side of our line in this stat.

infantrycak
10-11-2005, 03:11 PM
Walker is gone next year(hopefully).


This is the problem aj is talking about with bad GM decisions. It would cost the Texans more in cap room this year and next to cut Walker than to keep him on the roster--about $4 mil to keep him this year and about $9 mil to bail him. Casserly has trapped the Texans into keeping him or taking a huge cap hit. Same thing with Wade--his cap hit to carry this year is a little over $3 mil but to cut him would cost about $7.5. Now that is fine if it is what you have to do to sign a draft pick like AJ or for a guy you know is going to play out his contract at full value for what you are paying, but it is cruddy if you are talking about a guy who albeit great when healthy is playing on his last injured leg and will certainly not see the end of the contract and a guy who is "solid" but maybe not solid enough to keep his job as a starter. Casserly has to be responsible here too.

On the other hand with Wade, he never gave up more than 5.5 sacks in the 4 years prior to coming to Houston. Last year he gave up 6 and this year he is on pace to give up 12. Last year he had 3 total penalties, this year he is on pace for 12. Wade ain't a hero, but right now he is looking like a zero. Given that the same description applies to the whole rapidly regressing team, IMO what we have is either a monstrously bungling coaching staff or the players have quit on the coaches or more likely both at this point.

Basic fact is we can't get rid of the whole team because of the salary cap, but we can get rid of the whole coaching/management staff and hope they can build something out of the rubble.

nunusguy
10-11-2005, 03:16 PM
"Rookie Drew Hodgdon, a fifth-round draft choice from Arizona State, will move into the lineup at center, under the changes discussed by the Houston coaching staff. "
*******************************************
OK, I like it. Lets get the young guys in there so they can get some real NFL
experience. Maybe we can salvage something from this season yet.

Runner
10-11-2005, 03:19 PM
"Rookie Drew Hodgdon, a fifth-round draft choice from Arizona State, will move into the lineup at center, under the changes discussed by the Houston coaching staff. "
*******************************************
OK, I like it. Lets get the young guys in there so they can get some real NFL
experience. Maybe we can salvage something from this season yet.

I definitely agree with giving him 2-3 games to show what he has, unless he is plays horribly and we just can't give him the time to learn.

jacquescas
10-11-2005, 03:42 PM
if we had only kept glenn, not traded for buchanon drafted khalif barnes and elton brown with the picks and be happy

the wonger need food
10-11-2005, 03:48 PM
Couple of questions here...

1) Why did it take 4 games to figure out the current configuration was not working? Wasn't it pretty evident after they gave up 7 to Cinci who had 2 total before that?

2) How did Len Pasquarelli scoop John McClain on this?

Bubbajwp
10-11-2005, 04:31 PM
Wand - Wiegert - Hogdgon - Pitts - Rotate Riley and Wade at RT 50/50

Let Wand and Hogdgon get experience they show more potential and cant be worse than what we have now.

Riley is a bull in the running game but is a TAAAAAARIBLE pass blocker. IMO Wade is a little below average at both run and pass blocking. So Rotate them in and out to keep them fresh at the end of the game.

I bet Billy Miller is laughing his @$$ off right now.

Runner
10-11-2005, 04:35 PM
Couple of questions here...

1) Why did it take 4 games to figure out the current configuration was not working? Wasn't it pretty evident after they gave up 7 to Cinci who had 2 total before that?

2) How did Len Pasquarelli scoop John McClain on this?

1) I don't have the exact quote, but in Capers' radio show yesterday he stated something like "we are going to have meetings Tuesday to determine if any changes are required and what they should be if required"

If any changes are required? Doesn't he go to the games? Maybe we should feel lucky they are making changes after only 4 games.

2) a) McClain didn't know or
b) McClain had an agreement to let the coaches tell the players before he'd publish anything.

Either way that tells you something about our local sports journalism.

Kaiser Toro
10-11-2005, 04:39 PM
I am bewildered, a bit scared, yet feel ecstatic about the things to come. I am interested in what Hodgon can do. That interest is thin due to not seeing him play a snap to date.

Anybody like what they saw at ASU or in preseason?

keyfro
10-11-2005, 04:47 PM
my thing is during training camp everyone kept on saying how chad beasley was supposed to be really good then we cut him for milford brown...personally i think benching riley starting wand at LT is the right move...give wand one more chance to see if he developed into something decent as a starter that way we know if we need to draft a LT with the number 1 pick

if wade, wiegert, and mckinney can't step up their game then casserly looks like a damn fool...and so does the coaching staff...why is this line so bad year in and year out...when no other team in the nfl has this much trouble with their line on a year to year basis...even the chicago bears have a decent line every once in awhile...this just goes to show you that when you don't draft o-lineman in rounds 3-5 on a consistant basis you are going to suffer

powda
10-11-2005, 04:50 PM
I am bewildered, a bit scared, yet feel ecstatic about the things to come.

i to feel "ecstatic". but its more about the upcomming off-season then it is the remainder of the season.

new coach.

new line.

new coordinators.

that #1 pick come april makes ya feel like a celebrity. i cant wait. it makes this all worthwhile...


:whistle:

TexanExile
10-11-2005, 05:14 PM
Hey, they can't do this "experimenting" stuff! The line could fall apart! What would happen to the pass protection!? They'll get obliterated--you could see this team giving up seven or ten sacks per game!

Oh, wait. Never mind.


I love it. It's time to start tinkering. I'll take a few more false start penalties per game in exchange for fewer sacks.

touttail
10-11-2005, 05:33 PM
ESPN is saying that this is what the Texan coaches are going to do:

Hodgdon-Center
McKinney-LGuard
Pitts-LTackle
Wiegert-RGuard
Wade & Riley competing for RTackle

This is the planned lineup shakeup!


bobby 119C :texans:

William.carter
10-11-2005, 05:37 PM
ESPN is saying that this is what the Texan coaches are going to do:

Hodgdon-Center
McKinney-LGuard
Pitts-LTackle
Wiegert-RGuard
Wade & Riley competing for RTackle

This is the planned lineup shakeup!


bobby 119C :texans:

Sounds like Wand has been written off completely. You would think they would at least let him compete with Riley and Wade for the RT spot or something.

Beasley did a fair job filling in for Wiegert when he was injured that one pre-season game but apearently being servicable on a sub-standard line gets you cut.

Tulip
10-11-2005, 06:05 PM
I'm very pleased about this. Pitts should have never been moved from the LT position anyway - unless it was for a 1st rounder or an Orlando Pace-type.

I hope McKinney can do better at his old guard position.

edo783
10-11-2005, 06:07 PM
Not sure why, but Seth Wand seems to have gotten on the bad side of coaches. He did a FAIR job for what amounted to a rookie last year (certainly better than Riley the human turnstyle). If he improved the same amount from year 1 to year 2 as Pitts did, he would have been acceptable. Not sure what's going on, but I suspect the coaches have screwed up his confidence bad and he knows they aren't going to play him no matter what. In that kind of a situation a guys effort in practice may be dimminished. New coaches next year might see a totaly different guy.

nunusguy
10-11-2005, 06:12 PM
riley is not the answer in the starting lineup at all. He has been a RG or RT most of his professional career, but he was servicable at best. I like the Pitts to LT I have been posting it since I came on this board. .
You and a bunch more of us have been complaining loudly about the Texans
awarding the LT slot to Riley ever since they did it back in TC. And Seth Wand is like a POW - he has disappeared from the face of the earth. Dang, wonder if his own family knows his whereabouts ?

mean mark8
10-11-2005, 06:20 PM
Sounds like Wand has been written off completely. You would think they would at least let him compete with Riley and Wade for the RT spot or something.

Beasley did a fair job filling in for Wiegert when he was injured that one pre-season game but apearently being servicable on a sub-standard line gets you cut.

Dude, but we still have Fred Weary :drool: You just know what a stud he's been since year 1 for this team. We could never waive our 1st 3rd round pick, I think, what an embarrassment that the scouts couldn't tell a good o-lineman from a bad one. Of course I think that's pretty evident by now isn't it. :rolleyes:

infantrycak
10-11-2005, 06:23 PM
Not sure why, but Seth Wand seems to have gotten on the bad side of coaches. He did a FAIR job for what amounted to a rookie last year (certainly better than Riley the human turnstyle).

Seriously, did Wand pee on one of the coache's Wheaties? He was better last year than Riley this year, but Riley gets to compete and he doesn't. This seems like the coaching staff met in August and said, "hey y'all want to go fishing this spring."

Ibar_Harry
10-11-2005, 06:26 PM
Seriously, did Wand pee on one of the coache's Wheaties? He was better last year than Riley this year, but Riley gets to compete and he doesn't. This seems like the coaching staff met in August and said, "hey y'all want to go fishing this spring."

This coaching staff gets rid of anyone who might criticize them. Remember, people like Sharper and Glenn. What would you expect. We may disagree on a lot of things, but I hope we are on the same page as far as this coaching staff is concerned.

powda
10-11-2005, 07:13 PM
Seth Wand is like a POW - he has disappeared from the face of the earth. Dang, wonder if his own family knows his whereabouts ?

why do i have this gut feeling the o-line and in particular wand is where this coaching staff lost the players?

immagine...after a game last year late in the season the coaching staff trys to make an example of the line...it backfires...instead of striking fear into the team or inspiring them they lose the team. people had high expectations for wand comming into last year...no he wasnt gonna be that "pace" kinda guy but he was going to be our solution. the coaching staff "missteped" and this is the result...zero...absolutley zero effort from the line.

in addition to that they dont take kindly to carr and espn commercials about "what does your team need?"

im convinced this is a spite effort by a majority of our players. our talent is not this bad. we have 8-8 talent right now.

powda
10-11-2005, 07:18 PM
"what is your major malfunction?"


seriously..all of a sudden im getting visions of wand as "gommer pile" in full metal jacket running circles around the playing field with his pants around his ankles and his thumb in his mouth...

it was intended to inspire the team.

instead they shot the drill sgt.

Kaiser Toro
10-11-2005, 07:22 PM
why do i have this gut feeling the o-line and in particular wand is where this coaching staff lost the players?

immagine...after a game last year late in the season the coaching staff trys to make an example of the line...it backfires...instead of striking fear into the team or inspiring them they lose the team. people had high expectations for wand comming into last year...no he wasnt gonna be that "pace" kinda guy but he was going to be our solution. the coaching staff "missteped" and this is the result...zero...absolutley zero effort from the line.

in addition to that they dont take kindly to carr and espn commercials about "what does your team need?"

im convinced this is a spite effort by a majority of our players. our talent is not this bad. we have 8-8 talent right now.

Interesting take, would be nice to have a beat reporter cover this a little more. This wreaks of conspiracy with the possibility of Pendry rising to OC when his domain was the genesis of the team's malaise or apathy. :)

keyfro
10-11-2005, 07:22 PM
let me ask ya'll this...if pitts is moved back to LT and does really good...do we still draft a LT #1 in the draft?

powda
10-11-2005, 07:26 PM
yes.

pitts is the best candidate of a bad bunch. that dosent make him a great left tackle.

d'brick has the potential to be a hall of fame tackle.

Hervoyel
10-11-2005, 07:28 PM
Absolutely we do. There's no way this team comes out of the first round of next years draft without one of the best LT prospects available. Pitts can be a "good" LT at this level. He can do the job. He'll be a much better LG and possibly even a Pro Bowl LG someday.

And besides. Say you call it "Problem solved" and skip on that LT. Four games into the 2006 season Chester Pitts breaks his ankle. Now what are you going to do? It's hard to find guys who can play LT or even RT at a high level. Get another one when you have the chance, you'll be glad you did.

keyfro
10-11-2005, 07:31 PM
ok that's what i was thinking...so the next question is since we draft ferguson (assuming we'll have the top 3 pick to do so) do we start him at LT his rookie year or do what the raiders are doing and start him at another position on the line...i would think let him take his lumps at LT and get used to that side of the ball in the nfl...maybe during the indy game leave give him a TE or a FB to help with freeney

infantrycak
10-11-2005, 07:53 PM
This coaching staff gets rid of anyone who might criticize them. Remember, people like Sharper and Glenn. What would you expect. We may disagree on a lot of things, but I hope we are on the same page as far as this coaching staff is concerned.

Don't confuse a joke with agreeing with this kind of stuff. Maybe Sharper got cut for speaking out one time and maybe he got cut because last year he played like an above average player and was scheduled to get played like an elite player. As for Glenn, cite me a single instance of him saying anything critical of the team prior to his departure. Do I disagree with letting Glenn go?--yes, but he wasn't let go because he mouthed off. But, after totally divergent paths to reach a conclusion, yes we agree this coaching staff is toast at this point.

Hervoyel
10-11-2005, 07:54 PM
If we were talking about Barron I'd say yes, start him at RT and leave Pitts in place at LT for one more year. Pitts is reaching a point where I think he's not going to be hurt moving from LT to LG to LT and back again to LG. He's become a veteran lineman and I think his play at LG has shown that he can make the switch and play well there. Delaying that some more won't be a problem IMO. Lesser of two evils.

As I understand it "Brick" (assuming we get him) is a better prospect than Barron. Is he better than Gallery though? I don't really know and there are better judges of talent than me in here. I think even if he is I'd still leave Pitts at LT for one more season and give him the "RT treatment" If it buys Carr a sub 40 sack season then I'm all for it.

I am desperate to see Carr go two years in a row (or more) without being sacked like groceries.

outofhnd
10-11-2005, 10:26 PM
The simple truth is Palmer daydreamed this offense... And didnt take personnel other than his skill position players into account.

"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.

I thought we were doing pretty good in 03 without zone blocking, I think the zone blocking idea was a way to dis illusion as to how bad of shape the line was really in. im thinking we get 3 lineman this year on offense with a TE.

Ibar_Harry
10-11-2005, 10:50 PM
The simple truth is Palmer daydreamed this offense... And didnt take personnel other than his skill position players into account.

"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.

I thought we were doing pretty good in 03 without zone blocking, I think the zone blocking idea was a way to dis illusion as to how bad of shape the line was really in. im thinking we get 3 lineman this year on offense with a TE.

It was year 3 that we initiated zone blocking. It was year 2 when we were not using it and the sacks droped. Starting year 3 with zone blocking we began to fall apart once again in the sack department.

outofhnd
10-11-2005, 11:45 PM
i meant the year 2003 not year 3 :wacko:

HJam72
10-12-2005, 01:09 AM
"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.



If this is true, we have the wrong QB. We need someone with less arm and more of everything else.

People, does the zone blocking scheme effect the pass blocking or not? We seem to have major differences of opinion on this and I don't know what to think. IF it does, then that's the whole dang problem. We gotta go back to the normal blocking scheme.

Texans Horror
10-12-2005, 03:00 AM
I liked this quote from the article:

"Because the Texans can do little but shuffle the line at this point, they hope that is enough to spark a resurgence."

And yet, Riley and McKinney are still on the field and where is Wand? This is the type of problem that I've been seeing. The coaching staff just isn't willing to bench bad players and play ones who have proved themselves. That's stupid.

done88
10-12-2005, 05:24 AM
yea its about time

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 05:31 AM
Here's the link from the Chronicle:

Texans Shuffle Offensive Line for Seahawks (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3392635)

Something disturbing from this McClain's article...

Riley was signed as a free agent to compete with Wade but wound up replacing Seth Wand on the left side.

Really... Riley was brought in to compete with Wade... our best offensive lineman? They have known this long that Wade is another bust and didn't tell anyone?

This organization just wreaks right now. If they were as focused on winning games as they are on covering up their mistakes they might be able to win some football games.

infantrycak
10-12-2005, 06:26 AM
Something disturbing from this McClain's article...

Riley was signed as a free agent to compete with Wade but wound up replacing Seth Wand on the left side.

Really... Riley was brought in to compete with Wade... our best offensive lineman? They have known this long that Wade is another bust and didn't tell anyone?

On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

Vinny
10-12-2005, 06:29 AM
Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly. Or this guy http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/electric/pre2003/12dwi.jpg

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 06:32 AM
Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25208&page=1&pp=10)

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:34 AM
On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

At this rate, we'll be 0-16 and 20 million over the cap... :brickwall

Vinny
10-12-2005, 06:35 AM
Send them Kenny Wright...oh wait, he starts for the Jags....hmmm, release Steve Foley!!...oh wait...he isn't a back...but he couldn't start here either. Hmmm, send them Marlon McCree!....oh wait, he starts for the Panthers.

texan279
10-12-2005, 06:35 AM
Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25208&page=1&pp=10)

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

Just saw a piece on him on Cold Pizza. They said he is a solid run blocker but the Chargers feel they can no longer depend on him. Supposedly he had hand surgery against the Charger's wishes and they feel his replacement is doing a good enough job.

the wonger need food
10-12-2005, 06:38 AM
Just saw a piece on him on NFL Network. They said he is a solid run blocker but the Chargers feel they can no longer depend on him. Supposedly he had hand surgery against the Charger's wishes and they feel his replacement is doing a good enough job.

His backup stepped in and did a good job while he was hurt. I believe that Fonoti is up for a new contract after this season and that is part of the reasoning to get rid of him. He'll probably move into the $4-5 million range.

Huge
10-12-2005, 06:43 AM
Never go after a player a team is looking to trade. More times than not, there's a reason they're wanting to trade him. In this case, I doubt San Diego is happy with their depth on the OL and can afford to lose Fonoti.

Runner
10-12-2005, 06:46 AM
On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

"can't" as in "won't be given the opportunity" apparently.

Riley is gasping for air by mid 3rd quarter, and he was very slow and ineffective in the 4th because of his fitness - why has he "earned" these starting spots?

Vinny
10-12-2005, 06:48 AM
"can't" as in "won't be given the opportunity" apparently.

Riley is gasping for air by mid 3rd quarter, and he was very slow and ineffective in the 4th because of his fitness - why has he "earned" these starting spots?You don't have to actually earn a starting spot with the FEMA Texans....just show up and get your card.

eriadoc
10-12-2005, 07:19 AM
If this is true, we have the wrong QB. We need someone with less arm and more of everything else.

Or maybe the coaching staff could adjust their scheme to their personnel. I agree with whoever said (in another thread) that Capers is far too rigid in his approach. If a player does something well, use it! Don't try to force a square peg intoa round hole.

Blake
10-12-2005, 07:34 AM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/images/PICTURE_news.gif

"After toying with the arrangement of players on the offensive line at various points over the last five months, the Texans are finally preparing a vastly different starting lineup for their nationally televised matchup this weekend against the Seahawks.

According to ESPN.com, the Texans are planning to start Chester Pitts at left tackle, the position he played his first two years with the team. Center Steve McKinney will return to left guard, the position he played at his previous NFL stop in Indianapolis. Rookie Drew Hodgdon, a fifth round pick last April, will make his first career start at center.

Right guard Zach Wiegert and right tackle Todd Wade will remain in their same positions, but Wade should expect some increased competition to keep his starting assignment. Former left tackle Victor Riley, a right tackle for his entire career before joining the Texans in the offseason, will challenge Wade for playing time at right tackle.

Missing from the game of musical chairs on the offensive line is third-year tackle Seth Wand. The starter at left tackle in 2004, Wand lost his job to Riley during training camp in August."


http://www.houstonprofootball.com/

Blake
10-12-2005, 07:34 AM
All I have to say is its about time.

MorKnolle
10-12-2005, 07:38 AM
I do like this change, I think Pitts will do better at LT since he is more athletic. I would still like to see Riley moved to a guard spot, possibly RG where you need more of a push for running plays, and then move Weigert to LG to help protect that back side since he is more athletic, and then I would leave McKinney in at C, although we will see how good Hodgdon can do this week in practice.

edo783
10-12-2005, 07:39 AM
Someone asked if the zone blocking scheme had anything to do with pass protection....the answer is no. It's a run blocking sort of scheme.

THEFUTURE
10-12-2005, 09:45 AM
i so called this switch like a week or more ago, man i am smart, haha. about time things got shaken up. but what a waste todd wade will be if he doesnt keep his job over riley

Runner
10-12-2005, 11:27 AM
On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.



I'd love to be present the next time Wade and Wand had a private conversation.

dalemurphy
10-12-2005, 01:45 PM
I'd love to be present the next time Wade and Wand had a private conversation.


What is going on with Seth Wand? He was much better last year than either Wade or Riley have been this year. Can someone explain why the coaching staff has written him off?

Coach C.
10-12-2005, 01:47 PM
What is going on with Seth Wand? He was much better last year than either Wade or Riley have been this year. Can someone explain why the coaching staff has written him off?

Dale it is likely due to the fact that he did not progress during the offseason. Is he more athletic, yes, but that does not get it done. Wand is already a pretty soft lineman, plus he came into training camp out of shape. Now We did play Riley who cant even make it to the bathroom without a water break. I would put the non use of Wand on the offseason things. the fact of it is that Capers has not used him and he has slipped into the dreaded obscurity zone.

Runner
10-12-2005, 02:04 PM
Dale it is likely due to the fact that he did not progress during the offseason. Is he more athletic, yes, but that does not get it done. Wand is already a pretty soft lineman, plus he came into training camp out of shape. Now We did play Riley who cant even make it to the bathroom without a water break. I would put the non use of Wand on the offseason things. the fact of it is that Capers has not used him and he has slipped into the dreaded obscurity zone.

I don't know about him being out of shape - he is one of the players that stays in Houston and follows the Texan off-season program at the stadium.

I can't believe they put Riley in if being in shape was the criteria either.

NoBullTexan
10-12-2005, 02:16 PM
The starter, Riley, is the one who came into camp out of shape. Don't know how Wand came into that conversation. I too, would like to know why Wand isn't given another chance?

Coach C.
10-12-2005, 02:49 PM
Guys when I mean out of shape I dont mean with the athletically. It was a situation where he had a shoulder issue and then he had not picked up on tapes and the ins and outs of his position. that is what I mean by out of shape. I should have clarifyed that. Sorry.

the wonger need food
10-13-2005, 10:20 AM
Interestingly enough, Fonoti has spent the past 2 offseasons conditioning in Houston. Apparently he's pretty fat.

"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

Hervoyel
10-13-2005, 11:28 AM
Interestingly enough, Fonoti has spent the past 2 offseasons conditioning in Houston. Apparently he's pretty fat.

"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

If he comes here can we call him "Tony Rocky Horror"?

William.carter
10-13-2005, 11:34 AM
"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

A bit off subject, but that movie is so full of one-liners it's crazy. Thanks for the laugh, I forgot about that one.

El Tejano
10-13-2005, 12:27 PM
From what I recall, Mckinney was a way better LG than he ever was a center. Maybe going back to the natural position will help. I remember we had our fewest sacks ever when Pitts was at LT. Nothing to brag about but still alot less sacks. He proved himself against guys like Jason Taylor.

Runner
10-13-2005, 12:45 PM
From what I recall, Mckinney was a way better LG than he ever was a center. Maybe going back to the natural position will help. I remember we had our fewest sacks ever when Pitts was at LT. Nothing to brag about but still alot less sacks. He proved himself against guys like Jason Taylor.

In a couple of weeks Pitts may get the opportunity to prove himself against Dwight Freeney. Hopefully he adjusts back to the "nuances of the LT position" (his words) quickly.

HJam72
10-13-2005, 02:03 PM
I think this line shake-up will help. Pitts, while not really being a LT, is our best LT right now. McKinney will be better as a guard also. I also think they should let Seth Wand compete with the other guys at RT. Maybe Wand's not as good as (Wade? Wiegert?) there, but he's probably better than Riley, who's competing for it now. All just my opinion, of course.

SESupergenius
10-13-2005, 02:26 PM
I wouldn't put the rookie into the center position just yet. Pitts at LT is better than Riley, but still not up to par. the LG spot is in shambles, this is probably one of our biggest achilles heals right now. All we did was move the problem to another spot. Seattle likes to blitz the safety, so the Tackles need to contain their assignments. DD really needs to keep sharp on his man.

texan279
10-13-2005, 02:41 PM
from www.kffl.com

Texans | Hodgdon to Backup at Center
Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:49:17 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans C Drew Hodgdon will serve as the backup center to C Steve McKinney heading into Week 6.


Texans | Brown May Start at Left Guard in Week 6
Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:48:16 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans OG Milford Brown will start at left guard if C Steve McKinney remains the starting center for Week 6.

Shamrock
10-14-2005, 08:35 PM
Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25208&page=1&pp=10)

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.
I'm a Chargers fan.

Fonoti is an unrestricted free agent after this season, and rumors say he won't resign with San Diego. GM AJ Smith has tried to get negotiations going but Fonoti's agent has said no.

SD has problems with Fonoti's actions on multiple occassions. He doesn't participate in the off season conditioning program, but rather spends his off season in Houston.

He reported way overweight in 2003, then developed a foot injury, probably due to his weight. He was IR'd that year. He also reported late to Training Camp by one day in 2004, and had another unexcused one day absence at Mini Camp 2005.

He left practice one day a week or two ago, then notified the team the next day he had a second surgery on his injured hand. That meant he would miss an additional three games (two more from now, then SD has a bye.)

Compensation: The Chargers are looking for a 3rd or 4th round pick. They know Fonoti is going to get a good FA contract, and SD can expect a 3rd round Compensatory Selection in 2007 as compensation from the NFL for losing a quality FA. However, I believe they would take a 2006 4th round pick, as that provides equal present value to a 2007 #3.

Talent: Fonoti is a road grader in the running game. He has All Pro talent in drive blocking. He is not very agile, nor very athletic, and has some problems in pulling. He does well in SD's short pull and trap system, but doesn't get to the second level well on extended sweeps or screens. If he lines up a guy while in space, he can level him, but he can also be side stepped easily.

In pass blocking, he's average to above average, but definitely not elite. He's now worked with two of the best OL coaches around (Hudson Houck and Carl Mauck) but his pass blocking has not improved as much as I thought it would. My contention is it never will, and it's simply a matter of his limited athleticism. He would probably help a troubled OL such as the Texans.

Weight: He's "in shape". For him that means about 350-370 lbs. He's a big dude.

Bottom line: The Texans are my #2 team, and I would love to see the team do something to upgrade the OL to keep Carr on his feet and allow him some time to find downfield WR's. Carr is never going to develop if he doesn't have the time in the pocket to make reads.

I contend that Fonoti will sign with Houston after this season anyway. Is a #4 in 2006 worth helping to keep Carr on his feet for the next 10 games? That's the question y'all need to ask.

texan279
10-14-2005, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the post Shamrock, gives me a more in depth look at this guy.

I contend that Fonoti will sign with Houston after this season anyway. Is a #4 in 2006 worth helping to keep Carr on his feet for the next 10 games? That's the question y'all need to ask.

You bet your behind it is...

the wonger need food
10-15-2005, 04:42 PM
The silly Bolts fans are talking about trading Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25290) for Andre Johnson or Dunta Robinson...

It looks like the going price is a 4th rounder. And he's going to get a healthy raise in the offseason.

utahmark
10-15-2005, 05:21 PM
Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25208&page=1&pp=10)

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

send them buchanon.

utahmark
10-15-2005, 05:25 PM
i heard casserly say that one good thing about our o-line backups is that they all used to be starters. what he failed to mention is that most of them started for us when we had no other choice and the one's who didnt start for us arent very good.

utahmark
10-15-2005, 05:59 PM
The silly Bolts fans are talking about trading Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25290) for Andre Johnson or Dunta Robinson...

It looks like the going price is a 4th rounder. And he's going to get a healthy raise in the offseason.

thats funny. i almost registered just to tell them how stupid they really are. but i dont feel right calling someone stupid when im the texan fan.

Shamrock
10-17-2005, 07:24 AM
The silly Bolts fans are talking about trading Fonoti (http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=25290) for Andre Johnson or Dunta Robinson...

It looks like the going price is a 4th rounder. And he's going to get a healthy raise in the offseason.
Those are the ***** kiddies on that board who haven't a clue.

The "inside" rumor I've heard is that the Bolts will settle for a conditional 4th, that can become a 3rd based on playing time and if Fonoti is re-signed by that team.

texan279
10-18-2005, 09:20 AM
I really wish we could have signed Pace...from what I saw in the Colts/Rams game last night, he dominated Freeney...

eriadoc
10-18-2005, 09:36 AM
I think we should pursue a sign-and-trade with the Chargers for Fonoti. There's no way we'd find a guard of Fonoti's quality with a 3rd round pick that didn't require a couple years of prep work. If it's not a sign-and-trade deal though, don't do it.

Runner
10-18-2005, 09:43 AM
I really wish we could have signed Pace...from what I saw in the Colts/Rams game last night, he dominated Freeney...

Pace really is something to watch. No wonder he was a Heisman candidate in college, even from the lineman position.

nunusguy
10-18-2005, 02:24 PM
i heard casserly say that one good thing about our o-line backups is that they all used to be starters. what he failed to mention is that most of them started for us when we had no other choice and the one's who didnt start for us arent very good.
Cass & Capers are both real slick. They can spin it with the best of them in this field. Frankly, that's one thing I always liked about Parsels. For example, if his team played badly, he didn't sugar coat it. He'd probably just say they
stunk up the place and leave it at that.

texan279
10-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Those are the ***** kiddies on that board who haven't a clue.

The "inside" rumor I've heard is that the Bolts will settle for a conditional 4th, that can become a 3rd based on playing time and if Fonoti is re-signed by that team.

He was traded to the Vikings for a 7TH ROUND PICK per ESPN.

infantrycak
10-18-2005, 03:15 PM
He was traded to the Vikings for a 7TH ROUND PICK per ESPN.

So basically they got him for free and Casserly couldn't have made that move for the Texans. It isn't like we just lost one starting G and moved the other starting G to T or anything there Charlie. Brilliant!!!

SESupergenius
10-18-2005, 05:54 PM
unbelievable. A sixth rounder would still be nothing, almost all of ours don't make the team or are not good anyways. Someone is sleeping on the job.

ESPN.com's John Clayton reports the San Diego Chargers have traded OG Toniu Fonoti to the Minnesota Vikings for a seventh-round draft choice in 2006. The pick could be upgraded to a sixth-rounder if certain conditions are met.

Bubbajwp
10-18-2005, 06:15 PM
unbelievable. A sixth rounder would still be nothing, almost all of ours don't make the team or are not good anyways. Someone is sleeping on the job.

ESPN.com's John Clayton reports the San Diego Chargers have traded OG Toniu Fonoti to the Minnesota Vikings for a seventh-round draft choice in 2006. The pick could be upgraded to a sixth-rounder if certain conditions are met.
All I have to say is Fbomb Fbomb Fbomb Fbomb. :brickwall

the wonger need food
10-19-2005, 09:59 AM
Unbelievable. Anyone else get the impression that the Texans are intentionally tanking this season?

On the other hand, I doubt that Fonoti (or anyone else for that matter) would want to come play for this team. If they had to overpay for FA's before this season it's going to be impossible to pick up any players this offseason. The organization has officially hit rock-bottom and it's going to take 5-7 years to turn this thing around.

Vinny
10-19-2005, 10:00 AM
Those are the ***** kiddies on that board who haven't a clue.

The "inside" rumor I've heard is that the Bolts will settle for a conditional 4th, that can become a 3rd based on playing time and if Fonoti is re-signed by that team.so much for your "inside" rumor huh

Ibar_Harry
10-19-2005, 10:21 AM
May be SD wouldn't trade with us................

texan279
10-19-2005, 10:30 AM
May be SD wouldn't trade with us................

I don't see why not honestly. The way it stands right now we would have the first pick.

Vinny
10-19-2005, 10:43 AM
Fotoni may be crazy. He dissapears for months and he seems unstable at times....that's probably the reason nobody wanted him for more than a 6th.

texan279
10-19-2005, 10:45 AM
Fotoni may be crazy. He dissapears for months and he seems unstable at times....that's probably the reason nobody wanted him for more than a 6th.

Disappears for months and is unstable. Sounds exactly like our O line! :goodnight